RPHS quitting due to vaccine mandate??

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i just wish people would understand the nuance to all of this.

cdc time and time again, says the vaccine doesn't prevent the spread.

young healthy adults shouldn't be forced to get this vaccine out of the "goodness of their health", but they also shouldn't be forced to get it to "prevent the spread" since, like the cdc says, these vaccines don't do that.

and what does a mandate mean? it could mean, not being able to work at a health facility. ok. in LA, SF, and NYC, it could also mean not being able to go the gym or a restaurant. these mandates mean different things in any city you go to. so it's hard to blanket all of your feelings and opinions to all situations.

a lot of you health care professionals have subscribed 100% to the left wokey BS "The Science TM" narrative of "A SHOT IN EVERY ARM!!!!!" allowing for no nuance. it's called brainwashing.
 
radio frequency said:
I do not understand how you got through school with this mentality.
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Realistically practically all schooling is memorizing and regurgitating facts. Its probably easy to graduate and hold onto a non-literal mentality of reality.
 
grumpyRph said:
cdc time and time again, says the vaccine doesn't prevent the spread.
Click to expand...
What? Are you conflating prevent and reduce? I did a quick Google search but I couldn’t find a statement on the CDC website that says what you are asserting.
 
grumpyRph said:
i just wish people would understand the nuance to all of this.

cdc time and time again, says the vaccine doesn't prevent the spread.
Click to expand...

It's funny. First you say you wish people understood nuance.
Then your next line is you saying that the CDC keeps saying it doesn't prevent transmission.

Yeah, it doesn't prevent it. It *REDUCES* it.


You also mentioned it's sad to see this kind of thing politicized, then that we can't take the politics out of it.

Now you're spouting all this stuff about the "left wokey".

I don't particularly care one way or the other about mandates. But you should stay more consistent with your arguments if you want it to be effective.
 
owlegrad said:
Realistically practically all schooling is memorizing and regurgitating facts. Its probably easy to graduate and hold onto a non-literal mentality of reality.
Click to expand...
True, but I would have at least expected them to have to read and interpret studies and scientific statements and literature meaningfully in order to graduate.
 
storyhill said:
I never said breakthrough cases proved the vaccine is not effective and I don't think that. When Biden made that statement and it contradicted the reality I was seeing in person in real time I deem that statement false.

You can keep understanding the science and I will keep helping the actual patients face to face. I believe my two eyes.
Click to expand...
Anecdotal evidence. The hobgoblin of small minds
 
grumpyRph said:
i just wish people would understand the nuance to all of this.

cdc time and time again, says the vaccine doesn't prevent the spread.

young healthy adults shouldn't be forced to get this vaccine out of the "goodness of their health", but they also shouldn't be forced to get it to "prevent the spread" since, like the cdc says, these vaccines don't do that.

and what does a mandate mean? it could mean, not being able to work at a health facility. ok. in LA, SF, and NYC, it could also mean not being able to go the gym or a restaurant. these mandates mean different things in any city you go to. so it's hard to blanket all of your feelings and opinions to all situations.

a lot of you health care professionals have subscribed 100% to the left wokey BS "The Science TM" narrative of "A SHOT IN EVERY ARM!!!!!" allowing for no nuance. it's called brainwashing.
Click to expand...
Brainwashing is what you experienced. Just so you know, there are NO IM vaccinations that totally stop transmission of respiratory virruses as they do not produce sterilizing immunity in the mucous membranes of the nose and mouth where the viruses enter. That doesn't mean they don't slow transmission, it means they don't stop it 100%. Even the measles vaccines DO NOT stop tranmission. but the reason we don''t have measles outbreaks are low levels on virus circulation and we A SHOT IN EVERY ARM. Did you go to the Pep Boys School of Pharmacy or did you sleep through immunology?
Even the original studies of the vaccine still had a VE of 95%, not 100%. We need every person to get vaccinated all over the world or this virus will continue to mutate and spread
 
At this point, we all just need to recognized that anti-vaccine is just a cult without a name.

People also have this misconception that “smart” people don’t fall for cults, but history has shown that this is not true. Peoples Temple had a lot intelligent members. Aum Shinrikyo had many highly educated members. But history will continue to repeat itself.
 
Old Timer said:
Brainwashing is what you experienced. Just so you know, there are NO IM vaccinations that totally stop transmission of respiratory virruses as they do not produce sterilizing immunity in the mucous membranes of the nose and mouth where the viruses enter. That doesn't mean they don't slow transmission, it means they don't stop it 100%. Even the measles vaccines DO NOT stop tranmission. but the reason we don''t have measles outbreaks are low levels on virus circulation and we A SHOT IN EVERY ARM. Did you go to the Pep Boys School of Pharmacy or did you sleep through immunology?
Even the original studies of the vaccine still had a VE of 95%, not 100%. We need every person to get vaccinated all over the world or this virus will continue to mutate and spread
Click to expand...

I’m in favor of all adults being immunized, but i don’t hold the illusion that vaccination will prevent mutation or spread of COVID19. We are all going to get COVID. Animals can get COVID, and there seem to be endless pockets of people who haven’t gotten it yet. It isn’t going away. And the original studies of 95% efficacy of the vaccine are not applicable in 2021 and 2022. It was nice while it lasted. The vaccines reduce severe disease by about 50%-80% realistically. The reduction in symptomatic disease is way less, but honestly is meaningless. I don’t care if people get the sniffles. I care if they go to the hospital and suck on 40L of oxygen for a week and keep grandma from getting her elective lumpectomy.

Personally, I have seen more breakthrough COVID after vaccine that previous infection.
 
I can recognize one choosing not to get the vaccine because it's not a 100% guarantee you won't contract the disease. Clearly your risk/benefit tolerance is much higher than mine. But, I hope your are consistent when you have an MI or stroke and decline to take statins and anti-hypertensives because they don't always prevent the recurrence of another major CV event, let alone their nastier side effects than that of a vaccine.
 
JustFillIt said:
Bottom line is - we developed a new medication and made it immediately available for the public. We skipped a large part of the new drug discover y process, processing a NDA, and the study/peer review process was extremely abbreviated.
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I would have understood and maybe even sympathized with this argument a year ago but definitely not today. I recognize that you and your family were vaccinated early but still making this argument after Comirnaty's full FDA approval and ~200 million Americans have been fully vaccinated seems weird.
 
If we don’t have enough data currently my question is: what would be enough data? If the issue is time rather than number of doses, how would we ever approve any medication? No medication ever has decades of historical data to review when it is released.
 
TheBlaah said:
It's funny. First you say you wish people understood nuance.
Then your next line is you saying that the CDC keeps saying it doesn't prevent transmission.

Yeah, it doesn't prevent it. It *REDUCES* it.


You also mentioned it's sad to see this kind of thing politicized, then that we can't take the politics out of it.

Now you're spouting all this stuff about the "left wokey".

I don't particularly care one way or the other about mandates. But you should stay more consistent with your arguments if you want it to be effective.
Click to expand...
the mandates are just politicians "doing something" to act like they are "taking covid seriously". gimme a break.

there's the narrative the media is creating and then there is reality. don't try to sit here and tell me all doctors and nurses are "taking covid seriously". they all work hard play hard. the narrative is 100% controlled by the media and political climate, and then there is the reality of people living their lives.

plus, how many people do u know who just got positive this holiday season? i bet A LOT!!! because i sure do.

i'm not here to argue about the vaccine and the studies. You can be pro vaccine and anti-mandate, but most of you subscribed to the narrative and can't let this exist in your mind. And "the science is always changing" with such a "novel virus" so whatever you say today can be changed by whatever scariant comes next.
 
grumpyRph said:
the mandates are just politicians "doing something" to act like they are "taking covid seriously". gimme a break.

there's the narrative the media is creating and then there is reality. don't try to sit here and tell me all doctors and nurses are "taking covid seriously". they all work hard play hard. the narrative is 100% controlled by the media and political climate, and then there is the reality of people living their lives.

plus, how many people do u know who just got positive this holiday season? i bet A LOT!!! because i sure do.

i'm not here to argue about the vaccine and the studies. You can be pro vaccine and anti-mandate, but most of you subscribed to the narrative and can't let this exist in your mind. And "the science is always changing" with such a "novel virus" so whatever you say today can be changed by whatever scariant comes next.
Click to expand...
The problem with this statement is that people are very rarely just that.

The anti-mandate people are almost universally also the ones cherry picking studies and/or anecdotes to make it sound like the vaccines either don't work or COVID isn't a big deal.

I would love for someone to basically say "I think the vaccines work pretty well and we should all get them but I don't like the government forcing it on us like this".

I've yet to see that.
 
grumpyRph said:
i'm not here to argue about the vaccine and the studies. You can be pro vaccine and anti-mandate, but most of you subscribed to the narrative and can't let this exist in your mind. And "the science is always changing" with such a "novel virus" so whatever you say today can be changed by whatever scariant comes next.
Click to expand...
What's with the quotes? Do you not think that is a novel virus or new data has come out that corrected prior assumptions?

I have no issue with pro vaccine/anti mandate people but like VA, I have yet to meet someone who actually has that viewpoint.

The vaccines are safe and effective. I think anything short of encouraging every eligible person to be vaccinated is doing a disservice to your community.
 
NITRAS said:
I’m in favor of all adults being immunized, but i don’t hold the illusion that vaccination will prevent mutation or spread of COVID19. We are all going to get COVID. Animals can get COVID, and there seem to be endless pockets of people who haven’t gotten it yet. It isn’t going away. And the original studies of 95% efficacy of the vaccine are not applicable in 2021 and 2022. It was nice while it lasted. The vaccines reduce severe disease by about 50%-80% realistically. The reduction in symptomatic disease is way less, but honestly is meaningless. I don’t care if people get the sniffles. I care if they go to the hospital and suck on 40L of oxygen for a week and keep grandma from getting her elective lumpectomy.

Personally, I have seen more breakthrough COVID after vaccine that previous infection.
Click to expand...
Then you don't understand Biology and I can't help you much. Vaccinating every human or as many humans as possible will stop the formatiion of new variants. It's the reason moist variants have emerged in places where there is little or no vaccination at the time they arose. Also, you obviously don't read anything, Mild is not the snifles. People with mild covid still get fevers over 102, chills etc. The data is clear vaccination works.
 
WorthlessOxygen said:
What's with the quotes? Do you not think that is a novel virus or new data has come out that corrected prior assumptions?

I have no issue with pro vaccine/anti mandate people but like VA, I have yet to meet someone who actually has that viewpoint.

The vaccines are safe and effective. I think anything short of encouraging every eligible person to be vaccinated is doing a disservice to your community.
Click to expand...
Right . Encourage people to get it. But it’s arrogant and condescending to want a blanket mandate for people to participate in society and jobs . If the goal is to not go back to 2019 normal they should just say it .
 
I don't want to hear any of your anti-vax crap. Take your vaccine like good little boys and girls. I want to take my mask off and and eat in restaurants again.

  • Unvaccinated: 451 cases per 100k
  • Vaccinated: 134 cases per 100k
  • Boosted: 48 cases per 100k

  • Unvaccinated: 6.1 deaths per 100k
  • Vaccinated: 0.5 deaths per 100k
  • Boosted: 0.1 deaths per 100k
 
grumpyRph said:
And "the science is always changing" with such a "novel virus" so whatever you say today can be changed by whatever scariant comes next.
Click to expand...
What do you think should be done when new facts emerge? If we do nothing until all the facts are know we will literally never do anything since we can never have all the facts.

What a bizarre statement. Like do you think we should never change policies based on new facts or…?
 
grumpyRph said:
Right . Encourage people to get it. But it’s arrogant and condescending to want a blanket mandate for people to participate in society and jobs . If the goal is to not go back to 2019 normal they should just say it .
Click to expand...
The goal is to go back to as close to 2019 as possible. We need as many people as possible either infected or vaccinated as soon as possible. Since less people die and hospitals can handle it better and it works better, vaccination is the preferred method
 
grumpyRph said:
the mandates are just politicians "doing something" to act like they are "taking covid seriously". gimme a break.

there's the narrative the media is creating and then there is reality. don't try to sit here and tell me all doctors and nurses are "taking covid seriously". they all work hard play hard. the narrative is 100% controlled by the media and political climate, and then there is the reality of people living their lives.

plus, how many people do u know who just got positive this holiday season? i bet A LOT!!! because i sure do.

i'm not here to argue about the vaccine and the studies. You can be pro vaccine and anti-mandate, but most of you subscribed to the narrative and can't let this exist in your mind. And "the science is always changing" with such a "novel virus" so whatever you say today can be changed by whatever scariant comes next.
Click to expand...

I can't like this comment enough. It seems bizarre to me, almost beyond belief, but there are two Americas right now. You have the America where you can't go into a restaurant, gym, or movie theater without showing a vaccine card. Then you have the America that is back to 2019 life. I mean think about that. There are places in America where by law you cannot go inside without showing proof of vaccination. How creepy is that? These are the same people who tell us to follow the science.
 
BenJammin said:
I can't like this comment enough. It seems bizarre to me, almost beyond belief, but there are two Americas right now. You have the America where you can't go into a restaurant, gym, or movie theater without showing a vaccine card. Then you have the America that is back to 2019 life. I mean think about that. There are places in America where by law you cannot go inside without showing proof of vaccination. How creepy is that? These are the same people who tell us to follow the science.
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You give away more information to Google, Apple, or Amazon per day than you would showing every business in town your vaccination card.
 
BenJammin said:
Yes but that's irrelevant.
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No it's not. You have no right to go into a place of public accommodation and spread a communicable disease. The same way smokers are excluded. The same way the shirtless and the shoeless are excluded. This is nothing new. For a short period of time you will have to make due. Your position is UN-American, lacks humanity and is basically an adolescent temper tantrum. The irony, which is dead in the United States, is if the jackoffs would all get vaccinated, the restrictions they loathe would also go away faster. But adolescence is like that.
 
Kids need vaccines to go to school. Why shouldn’t adults need vaccines to go in public?

I truly do not understand it, every person here has already been forced to get vaccines as a child. We have been doing that for generations. Is the only difference that when you are a child you are used to being forced to do things you don’t want to do?
 
Old Timer said:
No it's not. You have no right to go into a place of public accommodation and spread a communicable disease. The same way smokers are excluded. The same way the shirtless and the shoeless are excluded. This is nothing new. For a short period of time you will have to make due. Your position is UN-American, lacks humanity and is basically an adolescent temper tantrum. The irony, which is dead in the United States, is if the jackoffs would all get vaccinated, the restrictions they loathe would also go away faster. But adolescence is like that.
Click to expand...

You guys remind me of that movie, “grumpy old men”
 
Old Timer said:
No it's not. You have no right to go into a place of public accommodation and spread a communicable disease. The same way smokers are excluded. The same way the shirtless and the shoeless are excluded. This is nothing new. For a short period of time you will have to make due. Your position is UN-American, lacks humanity and is basically an adolescent temper tantrum. The irony, which is dead in the United States, is if the jackoffs would all get vaccinated, the restrictions they loathe would also go away faster. But adolescence is like that.
Click to expand...

I thoroughly enjoyed reading your "adolescent temper tantrum" . Comparing smoking to covid is apples and oranges. You can remove the risk of second hand smoke by removing the smoker from the area. You can't remove the threat of covid without removing all people from the area. I'm not anti vaccine either. I got both Moderna shots as well as the booster. But I'm not so wrapped up in my politics that I throw science out the window.
 
While on topic of this, an interesting study I read the other day

www.mdpi.com

COVID-19 Scientific Facts vs. Conspiracy Theories: Is Science Failing to Pass Its Message?

Science may be failing to convince a significant number of people about COVID-19 scientific facts and needed public health measures. Individual and social factors are behind believing conspiracy theories. Adults (N = 1001) were asked to rate their beliefs in various conspiracy theories...
www.mdpi.com www.mdpi.com
 
owlegrad said:
Kids need vaccines to go to school. Why shouldn’t adults need vaccines to go in public?

I truly do not understand it, every person here has already been forced to get vaccines as a child. We have been doing that for generations. Is the only difference that when you are a child you are used to being forced to do things you don’t want to do?
Click to expand...

I'm just continually shocked at the comments some of you are making. You're asking why we don't require adults to get vaccinated to go out in public? That's a serious question? I'm not a MAGA hat wearing country music blaring conservative hillbilly but wow I see why they're causing such a ruckus
 
owlegrad said:
Kids need vaccines to go to school. Why shouldn’t adults need vaccines to go in public?

I truly do not understand it, every person here has already been forced to get vaccines as a child. We have been doing that for generations. Is the only difference that when you are a child you are used to being forced to do things you don’t want to do?
Click to expand...
so we need a vaccine that doesn't stop the spread to go out into the community where there's already significant spread among the vaccinated individuals. got it.

and if your argument is, well if you get infected it will be less of a burden on health care systems if u are vaccinated. which will THEN justify businesses discriminating against you if you are obsese or diabetic. "well, you are burden on the health care systsem if you are unvaccinated or diabetic or obese or sexually active or smoke or if you are depressed or etc etc etc. so go back to mcdonalds where they are more willing to accept you"
 
BenJammin said:
I'm just continually shocked at the comments some of you are making. You're asking why we don't require adults to get vaccinated to go out in public? That's a serious question? I'm not a MAGA hat wearing country music blaring conservative hillbilly but wow I see why they're causing such a ruckus
Click to expand...
Yeah, it’s a serious question. Why not? Why is it only ok when the mandates are for childhood vaccines?
 
grumpyRph said:
a lot of you health care professionals have subscribed 100% to the left wokey BS "The Science TM" narrative of "A SHOT IN EVERY ARM!!!!!"
Click to expand...
Haha I love it when people refer to "the left", as it's great shorthand for "do not listen to me, I have no idea what I'm talking about."
 
owlegrad said:
Why is it that kids need vaccines for school but adults don’t need them for work or public activities?
Click to expand...

It’s just weird I suppose. Something about it does not feel right to me. I get that there is logic to your position. However, it just feels wrong to me at this time. My assumption is that in 20 years time it will be much more normal.

I, personally, am happy to share space with anyone that is not intentionally causing harm regardless of vaccination status. I always have been before Covid and will likely continue to feel the same going forward.

And - the truth is, kids don’t need vaccines to enter school. Their parents are required to fill out massive amounts of paperwork to circumvent it - they will not deny access to school regardless of vaccination status.
 
BenJammin said:
I thoroughly enjoyed reading your "adolescent temper tantrum" . Comparing smoking to covid is apples and oranges. You can remove the risk of second hand smoke by removing the smoker from the area. You can't remove the threat of covid without removing all people from the area. I'm not anti vaccine either. I got both Moderna shots as well as the booster. But I'm not so wrapped up in my politics that I throw science out the window.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry that in addition to imunology, infectious disease and public health you also seem to need to understand what an analogy is. It seems to me it is clear if you can be declined public accommodation because you are shirtless you should more readily accept being denied a public accommodation if there is a chance you could infect or kill your fellow patrons while being shirtless would only gross them out.
 
Old Timer said:
I'm sorry that in addition to imunology, infectious disease and public health you also seem to need to understand what an analogy is. It seems to me it is clear if you can be declined public accommodation because you are shirtless you should more readily accept being denied a public accommodation if there is a chance you could infect or kill your fellow patrons while being shirtless would only gross them out.
Click to expand...

Worst analogy of the year winner right here. If only you waited a few more days you could have locked it down for 2022! The fact of the matter is that vaccinated adults and children can still get infected with covid as well as become carriers of the virus. Having a room full of vaccinated people means one thing and one thing only: their risk of hospitalization and death is extremely low. It's such a shame that you're allowing politics to trump science (no pun intended). You're more than welcome to join the rest of us who have received the Moderna/Pfizer series plus booster and moved on with our lives. You don't have to live in fear at Burger King.
 
JustFillIt said:
It’s just weird I suppose. Something about it does not feel right to me. I get that there is logic to your position. However, it just feels wrong to me at this time. My assumption is that in 20 years time it will be much more normal.

I, personally, am happy to share space with anyone that is not intentionally causing harm regardless of vaccination status. I always have been before Covid and will likely continue to feel the same going forward.

And - the truth is, kids don’t need vaccines to enter school. Their parents are required to fill out massive amounts of paperwork to circumvent it - they will not deny access to school regardless of vaccination status.
Click to expand...
Depends on where you live. Almost every day in Late September I am vaccinating
children who cannot return to school without the required vaccinations. Mandatory vaccination has been going on since the Revolutionary War when General George Washington ordered ALL troops to be variolated (the precursor to vaccination) against Smallpox. This anti-vax anti science movement is recent and is inhabited quacks, wackos and the scientifically and politically impaired.

First Science: The science of vaccination is well established. It is safe and effective as are the mRNA vaccines against SARS-CoV-2. They are the greatest single medical advance of your lifetime. To deny otherwise is to deny irrefutable facts. There is NO contraindication to vaccination with the mRNA vaccines. You can delay if you had monolconal antibodies in the last 90 days. People who have an allergy to PEG can be vaccinated under the supervision of an allergist There is no effect on fertility. There is great research at Yale under the supervison of Dr, Akiko Iwaski, the foremost immunologist in the US that shows vaccination can reverse some of the effects of Long Covid.

Second The Politics: It is my view the founders would all voluntarily accept vaccination. They were patriots. Not the cowards that hide behind Freedumb. They pledged at the conclusion of the Declaration of Independence to each other: "We Mutually Pledge To Each Other Our Lives, Our Fortunes, And Our Sacred Honor" This idea of the founders as rugged individualists is crap. They would do anything for the nation to survive. If you are willing to go to war, roll up your sleeve and take the jab. We all (as country) sacrificed during WWII. The Federal Government told us how much meat we would buy and how much gas we could put in out cars amongst other things. With your selfish attitude we would be speaking German. When Polio struck, every kid got in line at school and got the sugar cube. They did it so that others wouldn't become paralyzed. As a nation we did it. With Freedom and Rights come responsibilities you owe the collective rest of us. The ONLY and ABSOLUTELY ONLY thing you hang your hat on is whether the Federal Government in our Federalist system has the power to mandate vaccines to all. Note, they are not trying to, they are only doing it in the work place for worker safety. But I would bet all the money I have against all the money you have that and your anti-vax Freedumb loving cohorts would not accept a sate mandate either, though each individual state can under our system of government mandate if they wanted to.
 
BenJammin said:
Worst analogy of the year winner right here. If only you waited a few more days you could have locked it down for 2022! The fact of the matter is that vaccinated adults and children can still get infected with covid as well as become carriers of the virus. Having a room full of vaccinated people means one thing and one thing only: their risk of hospitalization and death is extremely low. It's such a shame that you're allowing politics to trump science (no pun intended). You're more than welcome to join the rest of us who have received the Moderna/Pfizer series plus booster and moved on with our lives. You don't have to live in fear at Burger King.
Click to expand...
Yes, it has been known for sometime. What you lying 1/2 truthers fail to point out is they spread it less because they clear it faster. The reason Omicron is less of a problem is we have built up a wall of immunity. I hate 1/2 truthers more than liars. The vaccines under OWP were required to have a VE of 50% against infection. They were never designed to prevenet infection. They were designed to [revent severe disease, hospitalization and death. The fact that the VE against the origianl strain was 95% shocked everyone. It was our good fortune. I'm sorry that variants arose that lowered the VE against infection, but that does not mean should abandon vaccination. Not single doctor with a shred of credulity support that view. Also, as a pharmacist who paid attention in school, unlike some of you, I know for a fact that IM vaccines will NEVER stop all transmisision as they do not confer sterilizing immunity in the eyes, nose or throat where the virus enters the body. It can reduce it and it does.

You can't refute these facts:

  • Unvaccinated: 451 cases per 100k
  • Vaccinated: 134 cases per 100k
  • Boosted: 48 cases per 100k

  • Unvaccinated: 6.1 deaths per 100k
  • Vaccinated: 0.5 deaths per 100k
  • Boosted: 0.1 deaths per 100k
Getting vaccinated is the preferred option to immunity from infection. Just stick your tongue out like a three year old and say "I DON'T WANT TO GET VACCINATED" But real facts and not lies and 1/2 truths are not on your side.

And for ****'s and giggles or to see how really low and heartless you are. I suggest you go in Twitter and look up ICU, ER and Critical Care nurses and doctors and see what they face on a daily basis. Maybe some semblance of your humanity will surface when you realize the mass suffering this country is going through.
 
Wait, are we saying that getting the vaccine does not reduce your chances of getting Covid (and thus spreading it) AT ALL? Anyone have data on that?

I know it is effective at reducing hospitalizations but I thought it was also at least somewhat effective at reducing risk of catching it as well? No?
 
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owlegrad said:
Wait, are we saying that getting the vaccine does not reduce your chances of getting Covid (and this spreading it) AT ALL? Anyone have data on that?

I know it is effective at reducing hospitalizations but I thought it was also at least somewhat effective at reducing risk of catching it as well? No?
Click to expand...
Yes it does reduce your chance of getting it. It's just not as effective V Omicron as it was against Delta or the Original Strain.

  • Unvaccinated: 451 cases per 100k
  • Vaccinated: 134 cases per 100k
  • Boosted: 48 cases per 100k

  • Unvaccinated: 6.1 deaths per 100k
  • Vaccinated: 0.5 deaths per 100k
  • Boosted: 0.1 deaths per 100k
You are 3.4 x less likely to get infected if you are double vaccinated and 9.4 times less likely to get infected if you are boosted
AND​
You are 12.2 x less likely to get dead if you are double vaccinated and 61 times less likely to get dead if you are boosted
 
owlegrad said:
So it reduces infection, spread, and death. Neat.
Click to expand...
If you want to keep up to date on vaccines. Please follow the vaccine scientist
grumpyRph said:
so we need a vaccine that doesn't stop the spread to go out into the community where there's already significant spread among the vaccinated individuals. got it.

and if your argument is, well if you get infected it will be less of a burden on health care systems if u are vaccinated. which will THEN justify businesses discriminating against you if you are obsese or diabetic. "well, you are burden on the health care systsem if you are unvaccinated or diabetic or obese or sexually active or smoke or if you are depressed or etc etc etc. so go back to mcdonalds where they are more willing to accept you"
Click to expand...
You can be fat, diabetic and have whatever condition you want. These are not contagious. They are not filling the hospitals to overflowing.
 
Old Timer said:
Depends on where you live. Almost every day in Late September I am vaccinating
children who cannot return to school without the required vaccinations. Mandatory vaccination has been going on since the Revolutionary War when General George Washington ordered ALL troops to be variolated (the precursor to vaccination) against Smallpox. This anti-vax anti science movement is recent and is inhabited quacks, wackos and the scientifically and politically impaired.

First Science: The science of vaccination is well established. It is safe and effective as are the mRNA vaccines against SARS-CoV-2. They are the greatest single medical advance of your lifetime. To deny otherwise is to deny irrefutable facts. There is NO contraindication to vaccination with the mRNA vaccines. You can delay if you had monolconal antibodies in the last 90 days. People who have an allergy to PEG can be vaccinated under the supervision of an allergist There is no effect on fertility. There is great research at Yale under the supervison of Dr, Akiko Iwaski, the foremost immunologist in the US that shows vaccination can reverse some of the effects of Long Covid.

Second The Politics: It is my view the founders would all voluntarily accept vaccination. They were patriots. Not the cowards that hide behind Freedumb. They pledged at the conclusion of the Declaration of Independence to each other: "We Mutually Pledge To Each Other Our Lives, Our Fortunes, And Our Sacred Honor" This idea of the founders as rugged individualists is crap. They would do anything for the nation to survive. If you are willing to go to war, roll up your sleeve and take the jab. We all (as country) sacrificed during WWII. The Federal Government told us how much meat we would buy and how much gas we could put in out cars amongst other things. With your selfish attitude we would be speaking German. When Polio struck, every kid got in line at school and got the sugar cube. They did it so that others wouldn't become paralyzed. As a nation we did it. With Freedom and Rights come responsibilities you owe the collective rest of us. The ONLY and ABSOLUTELY ONLY thing you hang your hat on is whether the Federal Government in our Federalist system has the power to mandate vaccines to all. Note, they are not trying to, they are only doing it in the work place for worker safety. But I would bet all the money I have against all the money you have that and your anti-vax Freedumb loving cohorts would not accept a sate mandate either, though each individual state can under our system of government mandate if they wanted to.
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Are you making this argument to me? Not sure if you directed the “with your selfish attitude” comment at me or not.

None of what you typed up applies to me or my comment. All I said was I simply don’t consider other peoples vaccination status my business. Never have and likely never will - that’s just how I feel at this time. And that’s okay - regardless of your level of zeal.

Interesting history lesson though. Keep fighting the good fight boss. Once you throw George Washington in someone’s face your sure to win the argument.

“Your Anti-vaccine freedumb loving cohorts”? Lol - your crazy dude.. 😂🤣

Last time I checked I surround myself with mostly level-headed peers/friends that do not consider themselves right about everything in life and everyone else an idiot that is lesser than them (which is sure how you sound regardless of how “right you may be”.)

I will assume you were speaking generally and not directly at me although you quoted me.
 
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Old Timer said:
Yes, it has been known for sometime. What you lying 1/2 truthers fail to point out is they spread it less because they clear it faster. The reason Omicron is less of a problem is we have built up a wall of immunity. I hate 1/2 truthers more than liars. The vaccines under OWP were required to have a VE of 50% against infection. They were never designed to prevenet infection. They were designed to [revent severe disease, hospitalization and death. The fact that the VE against the origianl strain was 95% shocked everyone. It was our good fortune. I'm sorry that variants arose that lowered the VE against infection, but that does not mean should abandon vaccination. Not single doctor with a shred of credulity support that view. Also, as a pharmacist who paid attention in school, unlike some of you, I know for a fact that IM vaccines will NEVER stop all transmisision as they do not confer sterilizing immunity in the eyes, nose or throat where the virus enters the body. It can reduce it and it does.

You can't refute these facts:

  • Unvaccinated: 451 cases per 100k
  • Vaccinated: 134 cases per 100k
  • Boosted: 48 cases per 100k

  • Unvaccinated: 6.1 deaths per 100k
  • Vaccinated: 0.5 deaths per 100k
  • Boosted: 0.1 deaths per 100k
Getting vaccinated is the preferred option to immunity from infection. Just stick your tongue out like a three year old and say "I DON'T WANT TO GET VACCINATED" But real facts and not lies and 1/2 truths are not on your side.

And for ****'s and giggles or to see how really low and heartless you are. I suggest you go in Twitter and look up ICU, ER and Critical Care nurses and doctors and see what they face on a daily basis. Maybe some semblance of your humanity will surface when you realize the mass suffering this country is going through.
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Not only are you trying to refute points I never made but you're using stats I agree with as a criticism of points you just made! This conversation is over. You're trolling at this point. I used to respect you as a pharmacist but it's clear you're putting politics before science.

I mean come on, you admit my comment about transmission is true yet you criticize me for making it? Shame on you.
 
BenJammin said:
Not only are you trying to refute points I never made but you're using stats I agree with as a criticism of points you just made! This conversation is over. You're trolling at this point. I used to respect you as a pharmacist but it's clear you're putting politics before science.

I mean come on, you admit my comment about transmission is true yet you criticize me for making it? Shame on you.
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Of course I do, because it implies if not outraightly says don't get vaccinated., you can still get Covid and spread covid. This is a steaming pile of ****.
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To the moderators:
This is without a doubt the most distressing thread I have been a part. The fact that [pharmacists could express views that are antithetical to vasic science and the basically spread disinformation is mind boggling to me. Many of these posts are so full of misinformation and outright lies as to show how far this profession has sunk.
  • The vaccines are not approved
  • The vaccinated spread the virus the same as the unvaccinated.
  • The vaccinated are in the hospital as much or more than the unvaccinated.
  • The vaccine will affect male fertility
  • Young people don't get covid-19
  • Blaming patients for pre-existing conditions
  • It's a cold
  • Offer the vaccine to the vulnerable (Never has vaccination been done that way. it's not the way vaccination works)
  • The virus is mutating so the vaccines are worthless
  • Ignoring long Covid
  • A PCR test is not diagnostic
  • Dying with Covid not from Covid
  • Hospitals are manipulating data
  • Vaccines don't prevent the spread of the virus

These have all been said or alluded to in this thread by pharmacists.. This sickens me. You are unworthy of the profession you have inherited. It's a disgrace the moderators have allowed this much disinformation in a single thread. I muted the *****s and turned of notifications to this thread. The profession was on life support. But if this is what we turn out now a days then:

 
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