Should I be worried?

[jacob42]

I've applied to 24 medical schools this cycle from a broad list. Using MCAT of 518, I applied to 25% of schools at <25th percentile, 50% between 25th and 75th, and 25% at >75th. So far, I've gotten 0 IIs, 0 A, and so far 6 pre-II rejections. Here is my list:

R
Boston University Aram V. Chobanian & Edward Avedisian School of Medicine
Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
Mayo Clinic Alix School of Medicine
Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine
Indiana University School of Medicine
University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine


No II
Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine
Emory University School of Medicine
Northwestern University The Feinberg School of Medicine
Ohio State University College of Medicine
Robert Larner, M.D., College of Medicine at the University of Vermont
Tufts University School of Medicine
University of Cincinnati College of Medicine
University of Colorado School of Medicine
University of Illinois College of Medicine
University of Iowa Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine
University of Kansas School of Medicine
University of Massachusetts T.H. Chan School of Medicine
University of Michigan Medical School
University of Minnesota Medical School
University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry
University of Virginia School of Medicine
Washington University in St. Louis School of Medicine
Yale School of Medicine

Should I start worrying at this point given the date, or is it somewhat normal to be ghosted by most of my schools for so long? Have they just not gotten to me at all, or am I just very mediocre so I don't get fast/definitive yes/no decisions? I'm a Mass student btw


Edit: wamc profile

1. cGPA and sGPA as calculated by AMCAS or AACOMAS
2. MCAT score(s) and breakdown
3. State of residence or country of citizenship (if non-US)
4. Ethnicity and/or race
5. Undergraduate institution or category
6. Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer)
7. Research experience and productivity
8. Shadowing experience and specialties represented
9. Non-clinical volunteering
10. Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc)
11. Relevant honors or awards
12. Anything else not listed you think might be important

1. 3.98 and 3.98
2. 518 (128 C/P 129 CARS 130 B/B 131 Psych)
3. MA resident
4. White
5. Georgetown for a year, then transferred to UMass Amherst (cost, COVID)
6. Paid, Behavioral Health Technician at a detox facility, includes taking patient vitals, performjng drug tests (urinalysis and BAC checks), performing admissions, bag and body searches, performjng routine patient checks, getting patients for nurses and NP, working with nurses monitor particular patients. Around 300 hours so far. Projecting maybe 600-700 or so more by May (full-time, currently doing).
7. Conducted behavioral neuroscience research including an honors research thesis with oral defense on the effects of the orexin system on social novelty in a mouse model. Included lots of pilot trials and optimizing the social behavioral task. I used virally inserted receptors with pharmacological ligands for the experimental manipulation, and verified the insertion with immunofluorescent markers. I submitted grant proposal/write-up and got approved for $1,000, and presented my research at an undergraduate research conference. Around 150-200 hrs.
8. None explicitly, but I corresponded with a retired psychiatrist over email that I mentioned in my personal statement.
9. Call-taker at National Suicide Lifeline (988) and our regional version of that. Talk to people, assess their risk level, and de-escalate and offer emotional support. Provide referrals to Mass211 and hospital depending on situation. Around 150 hours.
10. Volunteer as a moderator on online anhedonia/depression forums and chat rooms, offering support and resources as necessary. Several hundred or thousand hours, on and off.

Member of UMass Neuroscience Club.

1. The $1000 research grant. Member of Nu Rho Psi national honor society.
2. Independent research in leisure time (mental health, psychiatry, pharmacology). Pubmed, textbooks, discussing with peers and other researchers, etc.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[karaya]

Right there with you buddy. 517; 26 apps; 5 pre-II R; 1 II to my IS; 20 deafening silences. Complete mid Aug - mid Sept. I think this is simply the speed of the game for us normals. (But I was also borderline-late.)

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Where is the WAMC profile? It's not just about your GPA and MCAT.

 

[Med Ed]

You've applied to a bunch of public schools who are unfriendly to OOS applicants.

The private schools you have applied to are brutally competitive.

Without additional information it's difficult to say more.

 

[candbgirl]

I've applied to 24 medical schools this cycle from a broad list. Using MCAT of 518, I applied to 25% of schools at <25th percentile, 50% between 25th and 75th, and 25% at >75th. So far, I've gotten 0 IIs, 0 A, and so far 6 pre-II rejections. Here is my list:

R
Boston University Aram V. Chobanian & Edward Avedisian School of Medicine
Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
Mayo Clinic Alix School of Medicine
Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine
Indiana University School of Medicine
University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine


No II
Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine
Emory University School of Medicine
Northwestern University The Feinberg School of Medicine
Ohio State University College of Medicine
Robert Larner, M.D., College of Medicine at the University of Vermont
Tufts University School of Medicine
University of Cincinnati College of Medicine
University of Colorado School of Medicine
University of Illinois College of Medicine
University of Iowa Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine
University of Kansas School of Medicine
University of Massachusetts T.H. Chan School of Medicine
University of Michigan Medical School
University of Minnesota Medical School
University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry
University of Virginia School of Medicine
Washington University in St. Louis School of Medicine
Yale School of Medicine

Should I start worrying at this point given the date, or is it somewhat normal to be ghosted by most of my schools for so long? Have they just not gotten to me at all, or am I just very mediocre so I don't get fast/definitive yes/no decisions? I'm a Mass student btw

From what you have shared we only know your MCAT. Without lots more info there isn’t anyway we can advise you. . I will say you have almost all OOS public schools on your list. Are you sure they are all OOS friendly?
Fill in a WAMC grid for more support and advice.

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[LindaAccepted]

I've applied to 24 medical schools this cycle from a broad list. Using MCAT of 518, I applied to 25% of schools at <25th percentile, 50% between 25th and 75th, and 25% at >75th. So far, I've gotten 0 IIs, 0 A, and so far 6 pre-II rejections. Here is my list:

R
Boston University Aram V. Chobanian & Edward Avedisian School of Medicine
Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
Mayo Clinic Alix School of Medicine
Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine
Indiana University School of Medicine
University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine


No II
Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine
Emory University School of Medicine
Northwestern University The Feinberg School of Medicine
Ohio State University College of Medicine
Robert Larner, M.D., College of Medicine at the University of Vermont
Tufts University School of Medicine
University of Cincinnati College of Medicine
University of Colorado School of Medicine
University of Illinois College of Medicine
University of Iowa Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine
University of Kansas School of Medicine
University of Massachusetts T.H. Chan School of Medicine
University of Michigan Medical School
University of Minnesota Medical School
University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry
University of Virginia School of Medicine
Washington University in St. Louis School of Medicine
Yale School of Medicine

Should I start worrying at this point given the date, or is it somewhat normal to be ghosted by most of my schools for so long? Have they just not gotten to me at all, or am I just very mediocre so I don't get fast/definitive yes/no decisions? I'm a Mass student btw

If you based your school choices solely on MCAT percentile, you probably didn't consider the impact of your GPA, school mission, and in-state vs out-of-state options, among other factors. Some of your programs, like Yale, are extremely competitive and also very research oriented. Do you have significant research?

In addition to filling out a WAMC form, realize that they way you present your qualifications matters too. It's not just X MCAT score, Y GPA and Z hours of whatever.

“Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything than can be counted counts.” ― Albert Einstein

Finally, please note that most schools continue sending out interview invitations into January, many into Feb, and a few into March. So don't panic. (That goes for the other poster who said s/he is in the same boat.)

As I've said before and will probably say again, at this point in the application cycle those who aren't accepted (and that's most applicants) should be pursuing parallels tracks.

Track 1: Do everything you can to get accepted this cycle. That means:
* Addressing weaknesses so that you talk about the steps you've taken if you receive an II or are waitlisted.
* Prep for an interview if you re invited to interview.
* If the school is open to updates, provide meaningful updates, but don't waste their time.

Track 2: Prepare for a possible reapplication. That means:
* Addressing and hopefully eliminating weaknesses (yes that overlaps with Track 1)
* Evaluate your application holistically (not just the MCAT or the stats) for weaknesses in school alignment AKA choice, your presentation of your qualifications, and your competitiveness.
* If you weren't competitive at the schools you applied to, either improve your competitiveness or apply to programs where you are competitive.
* If you believe you failed to reflect your qualifications effectively, fix your presentation.
* Apply as early as possible or skip a cycle so that you can really apply with an improved app.

Again, these are parallel tracks and should be pursued simultaneously until you get that acceptance.

 

[Goro]

Yes you should be worried, because until you get the acceptance email in your inbox you are rejected. I know that this will upset some tender snowflakes here, but it is true. In the meantime work on whatever deficits you have in your application.

 

[LizzyM]

Yes, no interview invites by Thanksgiving does put you in the "time to worry" category. But enough worrying... move your feet. @LindaAccepted has given you the road map. Use it.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Still waiting on that WAMC profile.

 

[jacob42]

Still waiting on that WAMC profile.

Haha sorry! 😂 I didn’t expect to have so many responses so quickly. I’m posting it now, thank you!

 

[jacob42]

Here’s the WAMC form.

1. cGPA and sGPA as calculated by AMCAS or AACOMAS
2. MCAT score(s) and breakdown
3. State of residence or country of citizenship (if non-US)
4. Ethnicity and/or race
5. Undergraduate institution or category
6. Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer)
7. Research experience and productivity
8. Shadowing experience and specialties represented
9. Non-clinical volunteering
10. Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc)
11. Relevant honors or awards
12. Anything else not listed you think might be important

1. 3.98 and 3.98
2. 518 (128 C/P 129 CARS 130 B/B 131 Psych)
3. MA resident
4. White
5. Georgetown for a year, then transferred to UMass Amherst (cost, COVID)
6. Paid, Behavioral Health Technician at a detox facility, includes taking patient vitals, performjng drug tests (urinalysis and BAC checks), performing admissions, bag and body searches, performjng routine patient checks, getting patients for nurses and NP, working with nurses monitor particular patients. Around 300 hours so far. Projecting maybe 600-700 or so more by May (full-time, currently doing).
7. Conducted behavioral neuroscience research including an honors research thesis with oral defense on the effects of the orexin system on social novelty in a mouse model. Included lots of pilot trials and optimizing the social behavioral task. I used virally inserted receptors with pharmacological ligands for the experimental manipulation, and verified the insertion with immunofluorescent markers. I submitted grant proposal/write-up and got approved for $1,000, and presented my research at an undergraduate research conference. Around 150-200 hrs.
8. None explicitly, but I corresponded with a retired psychiatrist over email that I mentioned in my personal statement.
9. Call-taker at National Suicide Lifeline (988) and our regional version of that. Talk to people, assess their risk level, and de-escalate and offer emotional support. Provide referrals to Mass211 and hospital depending on situation. Around 150 hours.
10. Volunteer as a moderator on online anhedonia/depression forums and chat rooms, offering support and resources as necessary. Several hundred or thousand hours, on and off.

Member of UMass Neuroscience Club.

1. The $1000 research grant. Member of Nu Rho Psi national honor society.
2. Independent research in leisure time (mental health, psychiatry, pharmacology). Pubmed, textbooks, discussing with peers and other researchers, etc.

 

[jacob42]

You've applied to a bunch of public schools who are unfriendly to OOS applicants.

The private schools you have applied to are brutally competitive.

Without additional information it's difficult to say more.

These seemed to be some of the friendlier ones from the USNews and MSAR stats I looked at. I ranked them all by percentage of acceptances out of all out of state students who applied. Many of these public schools actually had higher acceptance rates than private schools even when only considering OOS students. I tried to overlap this data with schools that have a fair proportion of OOS students, as well as with general posts on if a school is “OOS friendly,” but these didn’t always line up… for example schools with 40-50% OOS students but with only a 2% acceptance rate for OOS students.

 

[jacob42]

Added this!

Where is the WAMC profile? It's not just about your GPA and MCAT.

 

[Med Ed]

These seemed to be some of the friendlier ones from the USNews and MSAR stats I looked at. I ranked them all by percentage of acceptances out of all out of state students who applied. Many of these public schools actually had higher acceptance rates than private schools even when only considering OOS students. I tried to overlap this data with schools that have a fair proportion of OOS students, as well as with general posts on if a school is “OOS friendly,” but these didn’t always line up… for example schools with 40-50% OOS students but with only a 2% acceptance rate for OOS students.

Two points to consider.

A lot of the OOS applicants who end up at these public schools have some compelling connection to the state that justifies mutual interest. That obviously won't show up in the MSAR numbers.

Many private schools do have very low acceptance rates, but that's more a function of the sheer volume of applications they receive. In order to fill their classes they will make a lot of offers and lose a lot of applicants to other schools. They also receive a lot of applications that are woefully inadequate for one reason or another.

In order to increase your competitiveness you need to do three things:
1. Get some in-person non-clinical volunteering under your belt (soup kitchen, homeless shelter, etc.), 150 hours minimum.
2. Shadow a primary care doc (no more than 50 hours).
3. Broaden the private schools on your list to include places like Albany, NYMC, Quinnipiac, SLU, MCW, Tulane, Creighton, etc.

Your metrics are great, so improving your application is a pretty minor undertaking.

 

[chilly_md]

How many hours did you put down as being completed for the Behavioral Health Technician when you submitted your app? And when you start that job?

 

[jacob42]

How many hours did you put down as being completed for the Behavioral Health Technician when you submitted your app? And when you start that job?

I had 275 at the time of app. Started that June 22

 

[chilly_md]

I had 275 at the time of app. Started that June 22

I would consider it a major concern that you got your clinical experience a month or two before submitting apps. 40 hrs/wk means you did this for 7 weeks, submitted sometime in Aug and then pretty much stopped working again.

 

[jacob42]

I would consider it a major concern that you got your clinical experience a month or two before submitting apps. 40 hrs/wk means you did this for 7 weeks, submitted sometime in Aug and then pretty much stopped working again.

No no! I did this in 2022. Sorry, I should have been more clear on that. Trust me, I know that would look suspicious if I suddenly stopped doing it when I applied, lol. I only stopped because I returned to school for my senior year, and I was much too far away to continue working. That’s why I’ve returned to work now that I’m out of school and all done with my MCAT and applications.

 

[chilly_md]

No no! I did this in 2022. Sorry, I should have been more clear on that. Trust me, I know that would look suspicious if I suddenly stopped doing it when I applied, lol. I only stopped because I returned to school for my senior year, and I was much too far away to continue working. That’s why I’ve returned to work now that I’m out of school and all done with my MCAT and applications.

It was likely school list that kept you out then, but 275 is a bit on the low end considering you had little time investment in your other ECs. 700 hours for clinical experience this time around would be a good improvement. Agree with previous advice on getting 50 hours of shadowing and ideally 200-250 hours at an in-person place like soup kitchen, homeless shelter, etc before reapplying.

I suggest these schools:

UMass
Tufts
Boston
Vermont
Dartmouth
Einstein
Rochester
Hofstra
Albany
NYMC
Jefferson
Temple
Hackensack
Quinnipiac
Brown
Wake
VCU
EVMS
UVA
Mayo
Miami
USF Morsani
Nova MD
Saint Louis
Creighton
Rosalind Franklin
Western Michigan
MCW
Keck
Colorado

 

[jacob42]

Thank you both for your responses & recommendations @chilly_md @Med Ed! I’ll definitely apply to more private schools next time.

Quick question about volunteering. So it’s important that I specifically have in-person volunteering in addition to what I already have? I figured being a call-taker was a great avenue for volunteering, as I’m particularly interested in mental health/psychiatry. I’d also seen others say they used this as their volunteering. So you think that I should prioritize finding an in-person volunteering opportunity over putting in more hours at the hotline?

 

[Med Ed]

Thank you both for your responses & recommendations @chilly_md @Med Ed! I’ll definitely apply to more private schools next time.

Quick question about volunteering. So it’s important that I specifically have in-person volunteering in addition to what I already have? I figured being a call-taker was a great avenue for volunteering, as I’m particularly interested in mental health/psychiatry. I’d also seen others say they used this as their volunteering. So you think that I should prioritize finding an in-person volunteering opportunity over putting in more hours at the hotline?

While I have no doubt that taking calls for 988 is challenging, interesting, and requires a certain skill set, there is no substitute for in-person interaction with those who need help.

 

[chilly_md]

Thank you both for your responses & recommendations @chilly_md @Med Ed! I’ll definitely apply to more private schools next time.

Quick question about volunteering. So it’s important that I specifically have in-person volunteering in addition to what I already have? I figured being a call-taker was a great avenue for volunteering, as I’m particularly interested in mental health/psychiatry. I’d also seen others say they used this as their volunteering. So you think that I should prioritize finding an in-person volunteering opportunity over putting in more hours at the hotline?

My thoughts echo Med Ed's.