Forum Members Should I Retake the MCAT?

[SDN]

This is the Official "Should I Retake"" Thread Part 2
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This is an updated from: https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/official-should-i-retake-thread.412739/ (created on June 14, 2007 and retired on December 20, 2018) in favor of a post that is catered for Retake advice for the New Post-2015 MCAT!

For those of you who are trying to figure out whether you should re-take, this is the thread for you. Post your dilemma here if you want advice from other SDN folks. Please note that you should take the opinions you get from SDN as one source of advice; you would be wise to also consult your premed advisor before making this decision.

Template:

1. What are your previous MCAT Score(s) (with section wise breakdown):
2. What is your GPA (w/ Science GPA) (If relevant: trend, uGPA/grad GPA/postbacc GPA)
3. State/Country of residence (optional):
   
4. Ethnicity (ORM/URM?):
5. Goal Med school (Tier/goal):
6. Include ECs/Other Relevant Info if you would like:
7. Other Facts regarding your studying the first time:
8. Do you know/think you can do better?

Definitely Retake:

• Scores <495
• Scores with a subsection of 120 or lower
• if you scored substantially below your practice Full-length examinations and think you can do better.
• if your current score does not allow you to reach your target medical school goal (both your GPA and MCAT are below your goal score and your ECs are not spectacular).
• if you know you could do better and have the time/money to prep for a retake
• if you had some kind of major problem during the test that affected your performance (ex. you started puking or running a 102 degree temperature)
• if you took performed poorly on a section you did not take a pre-req class for: (one year each of biology, chemistry, physics, and organic, one semester of biochemistry and psychology) and/or took the exam without studying for it.
• if you know what went wrong in your prep the first time and can fix the issue when prepping for a retake.
• if you left large numbers of questions blank/ran out of time.

Retake only in some circumstances depending on your goal:

• if you scored a 512 or better, especially if all of your individual section scores were a 125 or better
• if your section subscores (the numerical ones) are all good, but you didn't perform well on the CARS section.
• if you scored well overall but with one section below a 123.
• if you had some minor nuisances (ex. a noisy test room) during the test and you're not sure if it affected your performance
• if you studied thoroughly for the test and you scored within the range of your practice exams, but your score is in the middle range 500-510.

Thanks to @MCATKINGS for updating this thread.

Previous Discussions on Should I Retake can be found here:
Forum Members - Official "Should I Retake?" Thread

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[enigma2196]

- Should I retake MCAT in March? I have a test anxiety, so my test scores vary wildly depending on the day from 508 to 523. Is there a major disadvantage in case I get lesser than 511?
I would not pursue a 3rd attempt. You did what fever than 25% of test takers with your original score which is to increase by 2 or more points on the second attempt. A 511 puts you at the middle of the pack. A 3rd attempt so close to the others looks like poor judgement and the reliability of the score goes down. Your test anxiety also is a big blinking yellow light that says really think carefully before testing again. Another score of 511-515 likely won’t help, a score below 511 will hurt your app significantly.

- Is taking MCAT 3 times viewed negatively by medical schools? Will they take the best of the 3 scores or consider all of them?
Its not considered favorably particularly within such a short timeframe - you’re talking about two attempts within 3 months of each other and 3 attempts in 12 months. It doesn’t look great.

- Some colleges say that they don't even look at the application if MCAT score is less than a certain score. Can we find this through MSAR? If they don't specify that, do you think that I have a shot because rest of my application including recommendations are very good?
Those are on school specific websites - the score cutoffs are usually in the 500-505 range, rarely above that, or for subsection scores of 125. Your score is fine for both hurdles.

- Any specific advice on Texas schools? I am an Asian. Is 511 too low to get into MD? My dream schools like Baylor and SouthWestern are too far to reach now.
to be sure, your MCAT score is not going to hold you back but your app will rely on other factors to pull you up. I fail to see how a 3rd attempt will drastically change this dynamic.

-I am from a top 20 university with a prestigious pre-med program. I am graduating (double major) with honors this year with GPA close to 3.9.
These are strong factors in the rest of your app and do not support pursuing a 3rd attempt.

Thanks for the reply. I should have added that My CARS score is 124. Does it cause cut-off issues with colleges?

 

[Girl on the Move]

Thanks for the reply. I should have added that My CARS score is 124. Does it cause cut-off issues with colleges?

It definitely causes cut-off issues with some schools. I know some explicitly say that they screen out sub 125 on any section, and I'm sure that there are others that have that stance internally but don't make it public. If I were you, I'd do research into the schools you were looking to apply to and see if they have those specific cut offs. It may also be work engaging with some of these schools (wether through admissions events or email) and seeing what their response is to this.

 

[iced_coffee_brunette_]

I agree with the others on here with airing on the side of caution. You have pointed out what you think went wrong on the day of your test (lack of sleep), but will you be able to ensure that that same problem will not happen? Additionally, how many of those FL exams did you take the first go around? Because even if you didn't consciously realize that you remembered those answers you had already seen those questions (and hopefully if you reviewed properly) those answers, which makes me a little nervous about those second round of FLs (especially with the 511).

That being said you know yourself best. If you are confident that you really have retained that information, and certain you can pull above a 515, then I would suggest trying to find a FL that you haven't seen before and taking it as a guide.

I was in a similar boat as you and got a 510 on my first MCAT (due to some issues that occurred while I was testing), and I recognized that I could do better. I brought up my score to a 516 (improving my worst section by 5 points), but I had time between the two tests and made sure I was taking FLs that I hadn't seen previously (basically trying to ensure that I really was doing better).

I'd say that making sure you have adequate in person shadowing either completed or lined up that you can list on your application (you can look in the other forums, many of the adcoms on here will dissuade you from listing the virtual shadowing), as well as improving the non-clinical volunteering hours (social work is great, as is the LTCF - though it may be more clinical depending on what you do there) are equally important in how schools consider you.

Thank you! I bought 9 completely new practice exams from NS so I will go through those this time but I've heard these are slightly deflated?? The 511 I got was on the exam I thought I remembered the most (FL1 which i took second to last my first time taking them)- I kept changing my answers from what I wanted to pick to what I thought was correct from memory and that hurt my score. The first FL I took was the sample which was the further time frame away from my original take and I didn't remember anything, likely because I only reviewed one section the first time I took it (cp) bc I forgot to go back. I got ~ 522 second time so I wouldn't attribute that to having seen correct answers but I felt like the sample was significantly easier in every single section than any other FL. I took it about 1 week after I started studying again (5 weeks before my actual exam). One reason I had sleeping issues was from getting bad migraines after the covid vaccine. I had bad migraines for a week following both vaccines but haven't had anything like that since!

I mentioned I have been scribing in the ER for almost 3 years in my original post. This is why I never was concerned for shadowing. I am in person seeing patients and was never taken out for covid so I've been in the clinical setting all 3000+ hours literally following the doctor around everywhere lol!

 

[dramanaut9518]

You have a lot of good information here. I need to know more about why you weren't successful this round. It's possible it's the MCAT but it also could've been weak essays. Otherwise you have pretty good GPA and ECs to make up for a poor CARS section. I actually was in a similar boat to you at some point as far as MCAT goes. I always had strong science sections but my CARS was weak. I worked endlessly to improve CARS and surprised myself when I increased it from 125 to 130. It's doable but I'm not so certain a 124 CARS would be the only reason you weren't successful this round.

I had a number of people (English majors and pre-med advisor) read over my PS and secondaries so I don't believe my essays were bad, but they could definitely be better. But you're right about how only having two IIs and 0 acceptances (for now) seems low for my stats and ECs. That's why I'm having such a tough time preparing for re-app because I can pinpoint a single area that needs significant improvement. And while an extra year of clinical work and volunteering will help, I'm stressing because idk if that's enough to merit any changes in outcome.

 

[Cr.collins1]

1. What are your previous MCAT Score(s) (with section wise breakdown): 507 (128,126,126,127)
2. What is your GPA (w/ Science GPA) (If relevant: trend, uGPA/grad GPA/postbacc GPA) cGPA 3.8, sGPA 3.81
3. State/Country of residence (optional): Colorado
4. Ethnicity (ORM/URM?): URM: Spanish/Pacific Islander
5. Goal Med school (Tier/goal): Top 50+ is the goal. Dream school is Madison Wisconsin from in-state ties and wanting to go to undergrad here.
6. Include ECs/Other Relevant Info if you would like: 6 semesters of TA for gen chem1/2, 6 semesters of general tutoring, 3 years of research experience with a poster and oral presentation. First author on publication from research. Current COVID lab researcher as analyst and will have 1.5 years once finished. Leadership role on campus as student government. orientation leader, and working in the student leadership office.
7. Other Facts regarding your studying the first time: I was super depressed from COVID/late 2019 my GF of 5.5 years cheated on me and we broke up. Spring 2020 was one of the hardest semesters because I didn't want to do anything. Started "studying" for the MCAT in may half-assed it until July and only studied for a month really hard and got a 507, was aiming for a 508 at the time. Didn't get to AAMC material and only used NS FL1-4, TPR books, and watched a few videos.
8. Do you know/think you can do better? I've been studying much harder already and feel like I have a lot of the material still from the first time I studied for this exam, I think I could crack 512+ and have currently signed up for a May 15th exam. Planning on taking AAMC FL1 mid-march and if I can crack 510+ committing even harder and really getting my score as high as possible. If I cant break 510+ by FL2 then I'm thinking a retake can only hurt.

Why retake?

So as I stated I think I can do a lot better the second time around and feel like Im in a better mindset this time around. Breaking down the MCAT by section

C/P actual 128. I was scoring 128-129 on my NS FL. I credit this to my TAing for chem for 3 years, I think with learning some more physics (knew zero physics and just coasted with my chem knowledge) I could really pull this section up to a 130 with some more commitment on low yield topics.

CARS actual 126. This one came as a bit of a surprise I was always scoring 127-128 and had never actually scored this low on CARS during my practice. I think I need to do more practice with actual AAMC material but I also think I could get a 130 in this section. Critical reading has always been a strong suit got a 34 on my ACT reading comprehension in high school.

B/B actual 126. I hate biology and the huge rote memorization of some of these topics. Ive never taken a physiology or anatomy class so this is where I spent a majority of my 1-month hard push studying, might be able to get this to a 127-128 with more practice.

P/S actual 127. again pretty bad with memorization of things but just have to push through more videos, I got a 4 on my AP Psychology test in high school and mostly slept through the class. I feel like I can improve in this section up to a 128-129 just have to grind through things and come up with some more mnemonics looking at frueds Old Aged Parrots Love Grapes.

So taking the highest scores from my prediction 517(130,130,128,129) and the lowest 510+(128,127,127,128) either way I think I can get at least a 510 on this thing.

 

[thinker2021]

1. What are your previous MCAT Score(s) (with section wise breakdown): 517 (127/130/129/131)
2. What is your GPA (w/ Science GPA): cGPA- 3.95, sGPA- 3.89
3. Ethnicity (ORM/URM?): ORM
4. Goal Med school (Tier/goal): I'm looking at quite a few schools with average MCATs in the 520s, and need to be a little particular because I'm trying to be in the same location as my partner's grad school. I'm really open to slightly lower tier schools, but because I need to be particular about location I would like to have all my options open.
5. Include ECs/Other Relevant Info if you would like: I can go into more detail if it would be helpful, but I think I have very strong clinical experience and clinical/non-clinical volunteering, as well as a bit of related leadership. I have a couple years of bench research but nothing super in-depth, I'll be a low author on a paper I helped update/edit. I spent a summer doing public health research with a hospital that has been submitted for publication.
6. Other Facts regarding your studying the first time: I mainly did content review. I took a diagnostic and got a 508, did all my content review, took another AAMC practice exam, got a 519, did the section bank and reviewed concepts I was struggling with, and that was about it. I'm realizing I studied pretty poorly (should have done more practice problems I think) but I didn't expect to do worse than my practice exam after additional studying.
7. Do you know/think you can do better? I'm think so, but I'm not positive. I'm really overcommitted with school, ECs, etc right now and finding it hard to find the time/motivation to study. I'm thinking that I'll do more full length exams and practice problem, and review any concepts I miss, but I'm not sure what to do beyond that/if that will guarantee I do better. But I feel like I really need to try to make myself competitive at schools with 520+ medians. Is that true?

Thanks so much for any advice, I really appreciate it

 

[ABC13]

1. What are your previous MCAT Score(s) (with section wise breakdown): 128/125/130/129 (512 total)
2. What is your GPA (w/ Science GPA) (If relevant: trend, uGPA/grad GPA/postbacc GPA): uGPA - 3.5, sGPA - 3.5, upward trend in undergrad, current SMP GPA - 3.78
3. State/Country of residence: CA
4. Ethnicity (ORM/URM?): ORM
5. Goal Med school (Tier/goal): Anywhere that accepts me, but preferably MD
6. Include ECs/Other Relevant Info if you would like: 300+ hours clinical volunteering in ED as ED volunteer and clinical research associate, a lot of research in academia and biotech/pharma including 2 years of full-time after graduating, 180 hours shadowing an ortho in the OR, currently shadowing an ED physician on the stroke team, ~50 hours non-clinical volunteering mentoring two high school students from underprivileged backgrounds, will be working as an MA for the ortho I shadowed when I graduate from my SMP. I currently have a guaranteed interview at University of Cincinnati next cycle because of my performance in the SMP
7. Other Facts regarding your studying the first time: I was working full-time while studying for the MCAT. I would basically work during the day and then study at night. I was scoring around a 127-128 on CARS prior to the real test, and just bombed the actual test date.
8. Do you know/think you can do better? I might be able to do better if I can truly study and focus, but I'm currently finishing up my SMP and then will be working full-time almost immediately after graduating. I don't know if I'll actually have the time to really put in the time/effort into studying to not only bring my CARS up, but to bring my score to a 515+.

 

[fd25]

Hi all -

I am currently sitting on 3WL and planning my reap in case I need to do that. I applied MD this year with 3.63cGPA and 3.56sGPA and a 511 MCAT (126/130/127/128). Since my first application, I have added 350 hours paid EMT work and 2000 hours of paid research. Starting in July when my job contract ends, I plan to start working a clinical job part time and spending the rest of my time volunteering in my community.

Due to my mediocre stats, I am debating an MCAT retake. When I studied for the first time I took it, I had a lot going on and was not super focused. I think if I spent 2 months now focusing hard to study and take it again, I could potentially see a significant score increase. This would mean that the earliest I could be complete at all of my schools this fall is mid-August (and I would have everything pre-written to make that possible), but this is on the late side and I don’t want that to hurt me. I think generally I am told not to retake a 511, but I do think I could truly Increase my score.

I normally convince myself not to go through with that, but I just had an advisor from my undergraduate school tell me that she thinks my MCAT is what is holding me back, but she also seemed to not care whatsoever so I am taking it with a grain of salt. Can I get some feedback from anybody willing to give some input? Thanks in advance

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Hi all -

I am currently sitting on 3WL and planning my reap in case I need to do that. I applied MD this year with 3.63cGPA and 3.56sGPA and a 511 MCAT (126/130/127/128). Since my first application, I have added 350 hours paid EMT work and 2000 hours of paid research. Starting in July when my job contract ends, I plan to start working a clinical job part time and spending the rest of my time volunteering in my community.

Due to my mediocre stats, I am debating an MCAT retake. When I studied for the first time I took it, I had a lot going on and was not super focused. I think if I spent 2 months now focusing hard to study and take it again, I could potentially see a significant score increase. This would mean that the earliest I could be complete at all of my schools this fall is mid-August (and I would have everything pre-written to make that possible), but this is on the late side and I don’t want that to hurt me. I think generally I am told not to retake a 511, but I do think I could truly Increase my score.

I normally convince myself not to go through with that, but I just had an advisor from my undergraduate school tell me that she thinks my MCAT is what is holding me back, but she also seemed to not care whatsoever so I am taking it with a grain of salt. Can I get some feedback from anybody willing to give some input? Thanks in advance

If you think you can score 517 or higher go for it. Make sure you are scoring consistently above 517 in FLs.

 

[fd25]

If you think you can score 517 or higher go for it. Make sure you are scoring consistently above 517 in FLs.

Thank you for your reply! Yes I’m going to make sure my FL average stays above that before actually committing to take it. I just wasn’t sure if that kind of improvement would warrant a mid-August complete date. Thanks!!

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Thank you for your reply! Yes I’m going to make sure my FL average stays above that before actually committing to take it. I just wasn’t sure if that kind of improvement would warrant a mid-August complete date. Thanks!!

Adcoms say completion by labor day is considered on-time so you are good.

 

[Goro]

Hi all -

I am currently sitting on 3WL and planning my reap in case I need to do that. I applied MD this year with 3.63cGPA and 3.56sGPA and a 511 MCAT (126/130/127/128). Since my first application, I have added 350 hours paid EMT work and 2000 hours of paid research. Starting in July when my job contract ends, I plan to start working a clinical job part time and spending the rest of my time volunteering in my community.

Due to my mediocre stats, I am debating an MCAT retake. When I studied for the first time I took it, I had a lot going on and was not super focused. I think if I spent 2 months now focusing hard to study and take it again, I could potentially see a significant score increase. This would mean that the earliest I could be complete at all of my schools this fall is mid-August (and I would have everything pre-written to make that possible), but this is on the late side and I don’t want that to hurt me. I think generally I am told not to retake a 511, but I do think I could truly Increase my score.

I normally convince myself not to go through with that, but I just had an advisor from my undergraduate school tell me that she thinks my MCAT is what is holding me back, but she also seemed to not care whatsoever so I am taking it with a grain of salt. Can I get some feedback from anybody willing to give some input? Thanks in advance

If you can't get into medical school, it's not because of your MCAT.

Work on interview skills, for starters

 

[proudofmykids]

If you can't get into medical school, it's not because of your MCAT.

Work on interview skills, for starters

I was going to add that I think your sGpa is weaker than your mcat.
You might want to instead add some post bacc science classes to boost the show and demonstrate higher academic achievement. I would think it would be easier than getting a 517+ on the mcat.

 

[candbgirl]

Would you share your list of where you applied and where you interviewed. I agree with @Goro. It’s not your MCAT that is holding you back. You had three interviews. Maybe it’s your interviews or a bad list. If you reapply consider adding DO schools.

 

[LizzyM]

Adcoms say completion by labor day is considered on-time so you are good.

That means complete including secondaries and letters of recommendation. I can't recommend pre-writing secondaries and studying for the MCAT concurrently.

I also agree that with three interviews, it isn't the MCAT that is holding back this applicant.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Your app and stats gets you in the door. It is up to you to seal the deal. Applicants who can project warmth, compassion, and connect with others usually interview well. Consider what questions may be asked of you. Do your homework about the school and be able to discuss why you want to attend that school. Have some friends or faculty give you some mock interviews, maybe even record them. It always baffles me why some applicants never mention the word Osteopathic in their personal statement when applying to my school. Good luck and best wishes!

 

[fd25]

Would you share your list of where you applied and where you interviewed. I agree with @Goro. It’s not your MCAT that is holding you back. You had three interviews. Maybe it’s your interviews or a bad list. If you reapply consider adding DO schools.

@LizzyM @Goro

Thank you all so much for the reply - all of your feedback is very thought-provoking and helpful!

Just FYI, I am a NYS resident, but will be moving back to Atlanta, where I am originally from, in July. I plan to get a part-time clinical job and volunteer in a local elementary school. As of right now, I am studying for the MCAT as if I am going to retake on June 26. If I can get my FL average consistently to 517, I will take the exam. If not, I will cancel. If I take the exam, I will pre-write my secondaries after my exam until I get my score at the end of July, and then submit my secondaries as soon as I receive them.

Here is my list I used this year, as well as my interviews/wait lists: (I think my list was not good?)

Einstein
Rosalind Franklin
Hofstra
EVMS
Emory
Dartmouth
Hackensack Meridian
SUNY Buffalo
Temple University
MCW
NYMC (interview --> WL)
NYU
NYULI (interview --> WL)
OUWB
Stony Brook (interview --> WL)
Vermont
Rutgers, RWJ
Jefferson
SUNY Downstate
Virginia Commonwealth
Tufts
Tulane
Rochester

 

[Goro]

@LizzyM @Goro

Thank you all so much for the reply - all of your feedback is very thought-provoking and helpful!

Just FYI, I am a NYS resident, but will be moving back to Atlanta, where I am originally from, in July. I plan to get a part-time clinical job and volunteer in a local elementary school. As of right now, I am studying for the MCAT as if I am going to retake on June 26. If I can get my FL average consistently to 517, I will take the exam. If not, I will cancel. If I take the exam, I will pre-write my secondaries after my exam until I get my score at the end of July, and then submit my secondaries as soon as I receive them.

Here is my list I used this year, as well as my interviews/wait lists: (I think my list was not good?)

Einstein
Rosalind Franklin
Hofstra
EVMS
Emory
Dartmouth
Hackensack Meridian
SUNY Buffalo
Temple University
MCW
NYMC (interview --> WL)
NYU
NYULI (interview --> WL)
OUWB
Stony Brook (interview --> WL)
Vermont
Rutgers, RWJ
Jefferson
SUNY Downstate
Virginia Commonwealth
Tufts
Tulane
Rochester

Rutgers was a donation; rest of the list was good. You should have had some DO schools though. As a reapplicant, you'll need some.

Every SDNer who plans to retake the MCAT "knows that they can get a better score". But it's easy to hit .300 in batting practice; facing a live 90 MPH fastball is different.

 

[fd25]

Rutgers was a donation; rest of the list was good. You should have had some DO schools though. As a reapplicant, you'll need some.

Every SDNer who plans to retake the MCAT "knows that they can get a better score". But it's easy to hit .300 in batting practice; facing a live 90 MPH fastball is different.

Haha i totally agree about batting practice vs the real deal! That’s why I want to take several FLs to ensure I’m consistently scoring “up there” even to take into account a somewhat lower score on the real thing. If I’m not confident I’ll knock it out of the park (just to continue that analogy) I won’t do it. Thanks so much for all of your feedback!

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Haha i totally agree about batting practice vs the real deal! That’s why I want to take several FLs to ensure I’m consistently scoring “up there” even to take into account a somewhat lower score on the real thing. If I’m not confident I’ll knock it out of the park (just to continue that analogy) I won’t do it. Thanks so much for all of your feedback!

How was your FL->real test score last time? Some kids (like mine) score same but others (like my niece) for whatever reasons (may be stress) score lower than practice tests.

 

[YCAGA]

Sauce: https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2...edical-student-selection-guide_07082020_0.pdf

Multiple ways to interpret this data. On one hand, 25% of people in your first score range do worse on a retake, which obviously would hurt you. 50% improve 0-4 points which won't help you that much. On the other hand, 25% improve more than 4 points which I think would significantly help you. 516 vs 511 is a pretty big deal with your low sGPA (low for MD schools). The problem is it is very hard to know with any confidence if you will be in that top 25% because you have presumably already taken all of the AAMC practice exams. Without COMPLETELY FRESH AAMC practice exams, it is very hard to gauge how you will do on your retake.

If I were you, I would worry about being an in-state resident in a low-GPA friendly state (cough, cough Ohio) more than retaking the MCAT. With that being said, retaking the MCAT is much cheaper and easier than taking enough post-bacc courses to significantly change your sGPA.

I have to acknowledge my bias that my MCAT and a strategic state residency is what likely got me into an MD school.

 

[fd25]

How was your FL->real test score last time? Some kids (like mine) score same but others (like my niece) for whatever reasons (may be stress) score lower than practice tests.

@YCAGA
Honestly, I don’t think I took all of the AAMC FL tests last time, and whichever I did take, I am fairly certain I won’t remember anything, but I know there could be some biases without me realizing. I think my highest FL last time was a 514, but I didn’t take enough FL to feel confident about my average.

my studying strategy wasn’t very strong and I probably didn’t start going hard on FL practices until 2-3 weeks before the exam. I was focusing more before on just doing practice passages but I don’t think that was very helpful for me. My real improvement that I saw was by me taking practice tests. This is why I think that if I study the right way this time, i could do much better. Again, if I can’t get my average practice exam high enough that I feel confident, that I won’t go through. But I don’t suffer from significant testing anxiety or anything, so I don’t think the real thing would decrease dramatically from my practice average.

I don’t know - I know it is still risky. I’m studying about 6 hours every night after work just to see how I do.

 

[YCAGA]

Honestly, I don’t think I took all of the AAMC FL tests last time, and whichever I did take

This makes it more likely that you could be in the 75% that at least improves by a point or two.

I am fairly certain I won’t remember anything, but I know there could be some biases without me realizing.

Everyone says this and I have yet to see someone who doesn't end up having wildly inflated FL scores, even a year after they took them the first time. I tutor people in the MCAT so I have a fairly decent sample size.

my studying strategy wasn’t very strong and I probably didn’t start going hard on FL practices until 2-3 weeks before the exam. I was focusing more before on just doing practice passages but I don’t think that was very helpful for me. My real improvement that I saw was by me taking practice tests. This is why I think that if I study the right way this time, i could do much better. Again, if I can’t get my average practice exam high enough that I feel confident, that I won’t go through. But I don’t suffer from significant testing anxiety or anything, so I don’t think the real thing would decrease dramatically from my practice average.

I don’t know - I know it is still risky. I’m studying about 6 hours every night after work just to see how I do.

I agree if your preparation was objectively poor last time, you have a good chance of improving.

The question then becomes:
1) How much do I need to improve for it to matter?
2) What are the chances I can achieve that?

 

[Angus Avagadro]

View attachment 337300

Sauce: https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2...edical-student-selection-guide_07082020_0.pdf

Multiple ways to interpret this data. On one hand, 25% of people in your first score range do worse on a retake, which obviously would hurt you. 50% improve 0-4 points which won't help you that much. On the other hand, 25% improve more than 4 points which I think would significantly help you. 516 vs 511 is a pretty big deal with your low sGPA (low for MD schools). The problem is it is very hard to know with any confidence if you will be in that top 25% because you have presumably already taken all of the AAMC practice exams. Without COMPLETELY FRESH AAMC practice exams, it is very hard to gauge how you will do on your retake.

If I were you, I would worry about being an in-state resident in a low-GPA friendly state (cough, cough Ohio) more than retaking the MCAT. With that being said, retaking the MCAT is much cheaper and easier than taking enough post-bacc courses to significantly change your sGPA.

I have to acknowledge my bias that my MCAT and a strategic state residency is what likely got me into an MD school.

Yes. Said another way, OP has a 3 out of 4 chances of not improving his lot. Op, I agree with the wiley @Goro , better also to apply to a few DO schools. You can always withdraw your app if your successful elsewhere.

 

[skigirl97]

Hi all,
I applied this cycle with a 507 (125/124/125/130) and got two interviews (MD), which turned into waitlists but did not get in anywhere. I retook the MCAT knowing I had to reapply and only increased by one point 508 (125/124/129/130). I just don't know where to go from here and if I should try to reapply MD and DO or wait and retake the MCAT a third time.

Any advice would be amazing!

 

[JimKimSlim]

There are many aspects on your application besides MCAT and GPA that affect your admissions process. More clinical hours and a new EC might be worth a pursue. Also, redo your application with a coach if you can afford to hire one.

 

[Kimmerfredette]

Hello! This is my first time posting, so if I did it wrong please let me know!

1. What are your previous MCAT Score(s) (with section wise breakdown): 509 (127,124,127,131)
2. What is your GPA (w/ Science GPA) (If relevant: trend, uGPA/grad GPA/postbacc GPA): cGPA 3.87 sGPA About 3.63
3. State/Country of residence (optional): Utah
4. Ethnicity (ORM/URM?): White
5. Goal Med school (Tier/goal): Mid to upper tier. The goal was top 20, now it is top 50.
6. Include ECs/Other Relevant Info if you would like:

Total Hours:
Intercollegiate Athletics: 3,130
Leadership: 0 (I put zero hours on my application)
Community Service / Volunteer - Medical/Clinical: 370
Community Service / Volunteer - Not Medical/Clinical: 314
Physician Shadowing / Clinical Observation (Ecuador): 35
Physician Shadowing / Clinical Observation (US): 66 (29 online 37 in person)
Research / Lab: 190
Employment Non-medical: 690


Division I Athlete: 3,130 hours

Team Captain

EMT: 340 hours

Hospital Help Desk/ER Help (I counted it as non-clinical): 50 hours

Religious Mission (did weekly non-clinical service for two years): 200 hours

Leadership positions in mission: Leadership over groups of 12-30 missionaries, in leadership for distribution of materials to over 100 missionaries, trained two new missionaries

Shadow Doctors in South America: 35 hours

Volunteer in South America: 30 hours

Shadow in US: 66 hours (37 in person 29 "online" due to COVID)

Nursing Home Assistant (non-clinical): 48 hours

Research: 190 hours, about a year, no publications

Custodian: 330 hours

Wood Shop Job: 330 hours

COVID Service (AKA misc. service I did during COVID shutdown): 16 hours

Hobbies: Skiing, mountain biking, rock climbing, running, and road biking

1. Other Facts regarding your studying the first time:
   1. Studied for about a year, my lowest CARS score on AAMC FL (4 of them, took 9 FL overall) was a 128. The rest of the sections were about the same as my actual test, but the P/S on my practices was lower.
2. Do you know/think you can do better?
   1. I think I can with more condensed studying. I’m thinking about studying another 300 hours and taking it at the end of August.

Do you think retaking my MCAT in August and waiting until next cycle to get in is the smartest choice? Or should I apply this cycle. My AMCAS application is in, I am just waiting for it to get verified, and I can add on schools. Any help is more than welcome. Thank you in advance!

Also if I don't get in this cycle how bad does being a re-applicant look?

 

[Hotshy]

Hello! This is my first time posting, so if I did it wrong please let me know!

1. What are your previous MCAT Score(s) (with section wise breakdown): 509 (127,124,127,131)
2. What is your GPA (w/ Science GPA) (If relevant: trend, uGPA/grad GPA/postbacc GPA): cGPA 3.87 sGPA About 3.63
3. State/Country of residence (optional): Utah
4. Ethnicity (ORM/URM?): White
5. Goal Med school (Tier/goal): Mid to upper tier. The goal was top 20, now it is top 50.
6. Include ECs/Other Relevant Info if you would like:

Total Hours:
Intercollegiate Athletics: 3,130
Leadership: 0 (I put zero hours on my application)
Community Service / Volunteer - Medical/Clinical: 370
Community Service / Volunteer - Not Medical/Clinical: 314
Physician Shadowing / Clinical Observation (Ecuador): 35
Physician Shadowing / Clinical Observation (US): 66 (29 online 37 in person)
Research / Lab: 190
Employment Non-medical: 690


Division I Athlete: 3,130 hours

Team Captain

EMT: 340 hours

Hospital Help Desk/ER Help (I counted it as non-clinical): 50 hours

Religious Mission (did weekly non-clinical service for two years): 200 hours

Leadership positions in mission: Leadership over groups of 12-30 missionaries, in leadership for distribution of materials to over 100 missionaries, trained two new missionaries

Shadow Doctors in South America: 35 hours

Volunteer in South America: 30 hours

Shadow in US: 66 hours (37 in person 29 "online" due to COVID)

Nursing Home Assistant (non-clinical): 48 hours

Research: 190 hours, about a year, no publications

Custodian: 330 hours

Wood Shop Job: 330 hours

COVID Service (AKA misc. service I did during COVID shutdown): 16 hours

Hobbies: Skiing, mountain biking, rock climbing, running, and road biking

1. Other Facts regarding your studying the first time:
   1. Studied for about a year, my lowest CARS score on AAMC FL (4 of them, took 9 FL overall) was a 128. The rest of the sections were about the same as my actual test, but the P/S on my practices was lower.
2. Do you know/think you can do better?
   1. I think I can with more condensed studying. I’m thinking about studying another 300 hours and taking it at the end of August.

Do you think retaking my MCAT in August and waiting until next cycle to get in is the smartest choice? Or should I apply this cycle. My AMCAS application is in, I am just waiting for it to get verified, and I can add on schools. Any help is more than welcome. Thank you in advance!

Your MCAT is on the lower side for MD schools, but GPA is good. If you are confident you can do better it might be worth a retake. However, being a Division I athlete and team captain will likely significantly boost your application. You check the rest of the boxes with your other ECs. You may have some luck if you apply this cycle with a targeted school list. T50 only might not be a realistic expectation with your MCAT score, though it is certainly possible for the reasons mentioned above. Curious to see what others think,

 

[KnightDoc]

Depends on whether you are willing to consider DO, because you are competitive for that now, and, it has the benefit of having a later admission cycle.

The wildcard for MD is whether the rest of your application is good enough to overcome your sub par MCAT. It's not terrible (only 2.5 points below the average for While matriculants), and, D1 athlete is huge. It won't be impossible given your ECs, but it will be far from a guarantee.

If you think you could do a lot better (515+) that would definitely help. Otherwise, a retake is probably a waste of time, and, as I said before, you might not even need it. The problem with August is that it's on the late side for MD, as you apparently know, since the score won't come back until September. OTOH, as I said before, your score is already okay for DO, and, September is still on time for them.

Maybe the smartest thing to do is retake the MCAT in August, but only if you feel ready. If you do a lot better, maybe push back until next year. Otherwise, apply DO this year, with some MDs thrown in just to see what happens. Good luck!!!

 

[Kimmerfredette]

Depends on whether you are willing to consider DO, because you are competitive for that now, and, it has the benefit of having a later admission cycle.

The wildcard for MD is whether the rest of your application is good enough to overcome your sub par MCAT. It's not terrible (only 2.5 points below the average for While matriculants), and, D1 athlete is huge. It won't be impossible given your ECs, but it will be far from a guarantee.

If you think you could do a lot better (515+) that would definitely help. Otherwise, a retake is probably a waste of time, and, as I said before, you might not even need it. The problem with August is that it's on the late side for MD, as you apparently know, since the score won't come back until September. OTOH, as I said before, your score is already okay for DO, and, September is still on time for them.

Maybe the smartest thing to do is retake the MCAT in August, but only if you feel ready. If you do a lot better, maybe push back until next year. Otherwise, apply DO this year, with some MDs thrown in just to see what happens. Good luck!!!

Good points, thank you! If I retake the MCAT it will be used for next cycle. Thanks again!

 

[Kimmerfredette]

@LizzyM @Goro @gonnif If you have the time I would love to hear your opinions! But I see you all over sdn, so I understand if you are busy.

 

[Kimmerfredette]

This is the Official "Should I Retake"" Thread Part 2
​

This is an updated from: https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/official-should-i-retake-thread.412739/ (created on June 14, 2007 and retired on December 20, 2018) in favor of a post that is catered for Retake advice for the New Post-2015 MCAT!

For those of you who are trying to figure out whether you should re-take, this is the thread for you. Post your dilemma here if you want advice from other SDN folks. Please note that you should take the opinions you get from SDN as one source of advice; you would be wise to also consult your premed advisor before making this decision.

Template:

1. What are your previous MCAT Score(s) (with section wise breakdown):
2. What is your GPA (w/ Science GPA) (If relevant: trend, uGPA/grad GPA/postbacc GPA)
3. State/Country of residence (optional):
4. Ethnicity (ORM/URM?):
5. Goal Med school (Tier/goal):
6. Include ECs/Other Relevant Info if you would like:
7. Other Facts regarding your studying the first time:
8. Do you know/think you can do better?

Definitely Retake:

• Scores <495
• Scores with a subsection of 120 or lower
• if you scored substantially below your practice Full-length examinations and think you can do better.
• if your current score does not allow you to reach your target medical school goal (both your GPA and MCAT are below your goal score and your ECs are not spectacular).
• if you know you could do better and have the time/money to prep for a retake
• if you had some kind of major problem during the test that affected your performance (ex. you started puking or running a 102 degree temperature)
• if you took performed poorly on a section you did not take a pre-req class for: (one year each of biology, chemistry, physics, and organic, one semester of biochemistry and psychology) and/or took the exam without studying for it.
• if you know what went wrong in your prep the first time and can fix the issue when prepping for a retake.
• if you left large numbers of questions blank/ran out of time.

Retake only in some circumstances depending on your goal:

• if you scored a 512 or better, especially if all of your individual section scores were a 125 or better
• if your section subscores (the numerical ones) are all good, but you didn't perform well on the CARS section.
• if you scored well overall but with one section below a 123.
• if you had some minor nuisances (ex. a noisy test room) during the test and you're not sure if it affected your performance
• if you studied thoroughly for the test and you scored within the range of your practice exams, but your score is in the middle range 500-510.

Thanks to @MCATKINGS for updating this thread.

Previous Discussions on Should I Retake can be found here:
Forum Members - Official "Should I Retake?" Thread

Hello! I am new to sdn, so if I did it wrong please let me know!

1. What are your previous MCAT Score(s) (with section wise breakdown): 509 (127,124,127,131)
2. What is your GPA (w/ Science GPA) (If relevant: trend, uGPA/grad GPA/postbacc GPA): cGPA 3.87 sGPA About 3.63
3. State/Country of residence (optional): Utah
4. Ethnicity (ORM/URM?): White
5. Goal Med school (Tier/goal): Mid to upper tier. The goal was top 20, now it is top 50.
6. Include ECs/Other Relevant Info if you would like:

Total Hours:
Intercollegiate Athletics: 3,130
Leadership: 0 (I put zero hours on my application)
Community Service / Volunteer - Medical/Clinical: 370
Community Service / Volunteer - Not Medical/Clinical: 314
Physician Shadowing / Clinical Observation (Ecuador): 35
Physician Shadowing / Clinical Observation (US): 66 (29 online 37 in person)
Research / Lab: 190
Employment Non-medical: 690


Division I Athlete: 3,130 hours

Team Captain

EMT: 340 hours

Hospital Help Desk/ER Help (I counted it as non-clinical): 50 hours

Religious Mission (did weekly non-clinical service for two years): 200 hours

Leadership positions in mission: Leadership over groups of 12-30 missionaries, in leadership for distribution of materials to over 100 missionaries, trained two new missionaries

Shadow Doctors in South America: 35 hours

Volunteer in South America: 30 hours

Shadow in US: 66 hours (37 in person 29 "online" due to COVID)

Nursing Home Assistant (non-clinical): 48 hours

Research: 190 hours, about a year, no publications

Custodian: 330 hours

Wood Shop Job: 330 hours

COVID Service (AKA misc. service I did during COVID shutdown): 16 hours

Hobbies: Skiing, mountain biking, rock climbing, running, and road biking

1. Other Facts regarding your studying the first time:
   1. Studied for about a year, my lowest CARS score on AAMC FL (4 of them, took 9 FL overall) was a 128. The rest of the sections were about the same as my actual test, but the P/S on my practices was lower.
2. Do you know/think you can do better?
   1. I think I can with more condensed studying. I’m thinking about studying another 300 hours and taking it at the end of August.

Do you think retaking my MCAT in August and waiting until next cycle to get in is the smartest choice? Or should I apply this cycle. My AMCAS application is in, I am just waiting for it to get verified, and I can add on schools. Any help is more than welcome. Thank you in advance!

Also if I don't get in this cycle how bad does being a re-applicant look?

 

[Goro]

Take a crack at applying this cycle. You will need to have DO schools on your list, but I see that you're competitive for MD schools. Admissions Deans tend to be fond of athlete-scholars.

 

[LizzyM]

If you would be happy to save a year by going to DO school, apply to those schools this year and be done with it.

If you are gunning for MD schools, and you have MCAT practice test scores solidly at or above your current scores in every section (with a special focus on CARS as your weak spot), go for it but hold off on applying until 2022. I'm afraid that an August MCAT given the rest of your application will make you too late to be considered for MD schools this year (Goro seems more optimistic ) but for my money, if you are really hoping for MD schools, I'd recommend not applying this year because you risk holding a DO offer next May and asking if you should decline it given that you have a 515 MCAT and want to apply MD in the next cycle. I've been aroiund long enough to see this pattern year after year.

Two other things: I would classify any activities that put you face-to-face with hospital patients as "clinical" and if you are fluent in Spansih that is something to include in your application as it will be very relevant in just about every area of the country.

 

[Kimmerfredette]

Take a crack at applying this cycle. You will need to have DO schools on your list, but I see that you're competitive for MD schools. Admissions Deans tend to be fond of athlete-scholars.

Awesome! Thank you so much. I am glad to hear that being a student athlete is helpful on an application!

 

[Kimmerfredette]

If you would be happy to save a year by going to DO school, apply to those schools this year and be done with it.

If you are gunning for MD schools, and you have MCAT practice test scores solidly at or above your current scores in every section (with a special focus on CARS as your weak spot), go for it but hold off on applying until 2022. I'm afraid that an August MCAT given the rest of your application will make you too late to be considered for MD schools this year (Goro seems more optimistic ) but for my moneym if you are really hoping for MD schools, I'd recommend not applying this year because you risk holding a DO offer next May and asking if you should decline it given that you have a 515 MCAT and want to apply MD in the next cycle. I've been aroiund long enough to see this pattern year after year.

Two other things: I would classify any activities that put you face-to-face with hospital patients as "clinical" and if you are fluent in Spansih that is something to include in your application as it will be very relevant in just about every area of the country.

Thank you for you advice! And that is a good point about Spanish. I will be sure to emphasize mine more.

 

[Goro]

Also if I don't get in this cycle how bad does being a re-applicant look?

The stigma against re-applicants is mostly SDN hype.

I suggest these schools:
NYU.LI
U VM
Nova MD
Jefferson (maybe)
Wake Forest
GWU
VCU
Rush
NYMC
Gtown
Creighton
Albany
Rosy Franklin
Drexel
Temple
Miami
MCW
SLU
Wayne State
Tulane
Loyola
Loma Linda (only if you are SDA or a very devout Christian)
Netter
Hackensack Meridian
EVMS
Oakland-B
Gtown
Uniformed Services University/Hebert (just be aware of the military service commitment)
TCU/UNT
Your state school(s).

Any DO program. I can't recommend ARCOM, RVU, Nova, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. Avoid those new schools that haven't graduated a class yet, if at all possible.

 

[Kimmerfredette]

The stigma against re-applicants is mostly SDN hype.

I suggest these schools:
NYU.LI
U VM
Nova MD
Jefferson (maybe)
Wake Forest
GWU
VCU
Rush
NYMC
Gtown
Creighton
Albany
Rosy Franklin
Drexel
Temple
Miami
MCW
SLU
Wayne State
Tulane
Loyola
Loma Linda (only if you are SDA or a very devout Christian)
Netter
Hackensack Meridian
EVMS
Oakland-B
Gtown
Uniformed Services University/Hebert (just be aware of the military service commitment)
TCU/UNT
Your state school(s).

Any DO program. I can't recommend ARCOM, RVU, Nova, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. Avoid those new schools that haven't graduated a class yet, if at all possible.

Thank you so much for the school suggestions, that was above and beyond what I expected!

 

[dreamYY]

Please let me know if I should retake.

My previous score from 9/27/20 is 502 (127/125/127/123), and the second one from 05/15/21 is 508 (129/123/126/130). My science and cumulative gpa is 3.4.

I have 1500 hours of research and 1500 hours of scribe experience.

 

[m22499]

If you think you can score 517 or higher go for it. Make sure you are scoring consistently above 517 in FLs.

How many times should you take the FL tests?

 

[gyngyn]

How many times should you take the FL tests?

Once.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

How many times should you take the FL tests?

as stated above once, you can find 3rd party ones if you already use AAMC ones but their scores could be lower.

 

[m22499]

as stated above once, you can find 3rd party ones if you already use AAMC ones but their scores could be lower.

I completed the official FL in May and I took the exam on May 20th but got 509 and 123 in CARS, I submitted my application on Jun 7th. I decided to retake the exam in July to improve my score. I haven't studied for a month but now I started to review my materials. How can I know if I improved or not?

 

[m22499]

Once.

I completed the official FL in May and I took the exam on May 20th but got 509 and 123 in CARS, I submitted my application on Jun 7th. I decided to retake the exam in July to improve my score. I haven't studied for a month but now I started to review my materials. How can I know if I improved or not?

 

[gyngyn]

I completed the official FL in May and I took the exam on May 20th but got 509 and 123 in CARS, I submitted my application on Jun 7th. I decided to retake the exam in July to improve my score. I haven't studied for a month but now I started to review my materials. How can I know if I improved or not?

Have you have burned all the AAMC FL's?

 

[m22499]

Have you have burned all the AAMC FL's?

Yes , but I just bought the blueprint 4 FL, do you think I can use them to determine if I improved or not?

 

[gyngyn]

Yes

Unused AAMC FL's are the best way of assessing readiness.
Alternatives are going to cost you and are not as predictive. I am sorry.

For those of you who are reading this: do not burn through your AAMC FL's! Save at least one to do a pre-exam assessment.

 

[m22499]

Unused AAMC FL's are the best way of assessing readiness.
Alternatives are going to cost you and are not as predictive. I am sorry.

For those of you who are reading this: do not burn through your AAMC FL's! Save at least one to do a pre-exam assessment.

I just bought the blueprint 4 FL. Do you think I can use them?

 

[gyngyn]

I just bought the blueprint 4 FL. Do you think I can use them?

I have no way of knowing how predictive a non-AAMC exam might be.

 

[KnightDoc]

Unused AAMC FL's are the best way of assessing readiness.
Alternatives are going to cost you and are not as predictive. I am sorry.

For those of you who are reading this: do not burn through your AAMC FL's! Save at least one to do a pre-exam assessment.

You're not suggesting not to use all 4 AAMC FLs before taking the exam, are you? @m22499's dilemma is that they went through all the FLs before taking the exam, and now has none left for a retake. I think that's exactly as it should be. I wouldn't (and didn't) save one or more in anticipation of a retake!

Unfortunately, now @m22499 will not have a good indicator of a future score, but, the answer to the question is to go through the 4 Blueprint exams and see if there is improvement from the first one to the last. If so, then you are probably in a better place than when you began, which is really all you can hope for at this point. If you don't see meaningful improvement on the retake, it's not the end of the world, but maybe consider applying to some DO schools where a 509 is perfectly acceptable. Good luck!!