Super torn between pre-med and NP - advice?

[gothundercatgo]

I’m considering being either a pediatrician or a pediatric nurse practitioner. I don’t know whether I want to work in primary care (I am considering psych or urology as well, having had experience as a pediatric patient in both myself.) I also have a passion for rural healthcare.

I’ve heard that nurse practitioners are less respected in medical settings than MDs. I have also heard rumors that the DNP level education is a joke. Finally, I have heard that there will soon be an excess of NPs.

However, I do want to start working earlier. I want to be able to raise a family (this is a high priority for me - I don’t want to spend my kids’ entire childhood at work), travel and have a life outside of work. The debt seems like quite a lot to take on, especially potentially going into pediatrics. And - I am not going to lie - the med school application/admissions process is daunting. Really, all I primarily want is to help and work directly with patients. But I do also want to be respected in the workplace and have a valuable degree and valuable knowledge.

Which career path sounds like a better fit for me? Is there something else I am completely missing? (I am not interested in being a PA - I would like to be able to work independently of a supervising physician.) Am I worrying about nothing? Eternal thanks to anybody who answers this.

Edit: College freshman, no degree, lab experience but no shadowing experience, 3.8 GPA. Will try to arrange shadowing experience as soon as I can

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[sunshinefl]

Pediatric RN.

 

[el_duderino]

How old are you? Do you have a degree? How much time have you spent working/volunteering/shadowing in a clinical environment? How are your grades?

 

[gothundercatgo]

How old are you? Do you have a degree? How much time have you spent working/volunteering/shadowing in a clinical environment? How are your grades?

College freshman, no degree, lab experience but no shadowing experience, 3.8 GPA - should I edit the OP to include this info?

 

[el_duderino]

Yes, it's significant that you have no experience with healthcare. I'd suggest you get some volunteering or other clinical exposure, and arrange shadowing.

 

[gothundercatgo]

Yes, it's significant that you have no experience with healthcare. I'd suggest you get some volunteering or other clinical exposure, and arrange shadowing.

Good idea - thanks!

 

[Xyzcannon18]

(I am not interested in being a PA - I would like to be able to work independently of a supervising physician.)

I have seen several PAs work independently in a primary clinic where the only thing that they need from MDs is opioid rx. In addition, by this, I think you'd run into similar issues as an NP.

 

[Xyzcannon18]

I think you should shadow and give it time. Family is a big priority for a lot of people, but we all (at least I hope) try to follow our passions. If family is important enough for you, you make time in your passion. I wouldn't worry about it now, but focus on doing well regardless of what you pick and keeping you head up .

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I have seen several PAs work independently in a primary clinic where the only thing that they need from MDs is opioid rx. In addition, by this, I think you'd run into similar issues as an NP.

Agree with this. PA will get you working faster than an MD, making good money and with a medicine-based education that is pretty standardized. NP education is a joke and is extremely variable. It’s anecdotal, but I have multiple friends working as RNs with an NP degree because they felt overwhelmed and underprepared for independent practice despite going to a reputable program.

All the PAs I know in primary care function autonomously and only refer to the doc if it’s over their head or they need an opioid rx.

 

[Doc_Ock]

If time is really that big of a factor for you go PA. 2 years and your done, or you can do a quick residency and specialize. Unlike physicians it's relatively easy to jump from one area of medicine to another (labor and delivery to derm for example) so you've got flexibility. You can work without a physician even physically present in many places. Just bear in mind you'll make a fraction of what you would make as even a lowly PCP. May not be on your mind now but when you're raising several kids (by the sound of things) not to mention putting them through college it will become a major factor.
That all being said, you're 18 (I'm guessing?). Your plans in life from this point on have a funny way of changing.

 

[stickgirl390]

Above advice is great. Adding that desiring prestige is not by itself enough to warrant MD, in my opinion. The schooling will eat you alive if that is the only driving factor motivating you to finish.

 

[Lucid_Dream]

NP is going to be super flooded in the coming years. Plus you can easily make more as a floor RN than an NP.

 

[Doc_Ock]

a quick google shows floor RN pulling about 66k, NP pulling 100k fwiw

 

[Lucid_Dream]

a quick google shows floor RN pulling about 66k, NP pulling 100k fwiw

I made 115k my first year out of school with a two year diploma. And 100k isn't typical for starting as an NP. My best bud just graduated NP after being a CCRN for 7 years. Was making roughly 75k working 3 days/ 36 hours before and now he works M-F 40 hrs a week making 80k.

 

[Doc_Ock]

I made 115k my first year out of school with a two year diploma. And 100k isn't typical for starting as an NP. My best bud just graduated NP after being a CCRN for 7 years. Was making roughly 75k working 3 days/ 36 hours before and now he works M-F 40 hrs a week making 80k.

if only we had a bigger sample than n=2.

 

[Lucid_Dream]

if only we had a bigger sample than n=2.

Are you familiar with the nursing profession and how bad the shortage is? There's always work, and as much work as you want/ can handle. Its pretty easy to make upwards from what I made. There isn't nearly as high of a demand for NPs. That's why I often encounter NPs working as floor nurses.

As my friend said "NP is more juice for the squeeze". You can make more and not have to work as much, but you have to pay for school, worry about the flood of NPs being released (online NP programs that don't require previous medical experience exist), and there isn't as much work available. Especially for FNPs or mental health NPs.

 

[allantois]

What does pediatrics, psych, and urology have in common tho?

 

[762513]

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

if only we had a bigger sample than n=2.

It’s not huge, but there’s a sample size of a few dozen NPs that I know or have met in CA who work as floor RNs because the pay is as good or better with less responsibility and better hours.

 

[762513]

It’s not huge, but there’s a sample size of a few dozen NPs that I know or have met in CA who work as floor RNs because the pay is as good or better with less responsibility and better hours.

Where I am from the NP pay is double that of a RN.

 

[Doc_Ock]

have you considered being a CRNA? Pay is good, generally reasonable hours, schooling isn't as short as PA but not as long as physician.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Where I am from the NP pay is double that of a RN.

That’s nice. I don’t know where you’re from but I’m talking about SoCal.

 

[Lucid_Dream]

Where I am from the NP pay is double that of a RN.

Damn, I need to look into that. Best NP pay I've seen is 130,000 and that's with YEARS of NP experience. Not nearly double what a RN could make, and I'm not even talking about travel, where 16,000 a month is a possibility.

 

[Stagg737]

@op, don't go NP. If you do, please for the love of god do NOT practice independently. Your training will almost certainly be nowhere near adequate to do so. If you'd rather take a shorter but well-paying path then go PA.

a quick google shows floor RN pulling about 66k, NP pulling 100k fwiw

The average RN works less than 40 hours a week though. Average NP is working much close to physician hours. I'd take 66k at 36 hrs/wk over 100k for 60hrs/wk.

 

[deleted103644]

I’m considering being either a pediatrician or a pediatric nurse practitioner. I don’t know whether I want to work in primary care (I am considering psych or urology as well, having had experience as a pediatric patient in both myself.) I also have a passion for rural healthcare.

I’ve heard that nurse practitioners are less respected in medical settings than MDs. I have also heard rumors that the DNP level education is a joke. Finally, I have heard that there will soon be an excess of NPs.

However, I do want to start working earlier. I want to be able to raise a family (this is a high priority for me - I don’t want to spend my kids’ entire childhood at work), travel and have a life outside of work. The debt seems like quite a lot to take on, especially potentially going into pediatrics. And - I am not going to lie - the med school application/admissions process is daunting. Really, all I primarily want is to help and work directly with patients. But I do also want to be respected in the workplace and have a valuable degree and valuable knowledge.

Which career path sounds like a better fit for me? Is there something else I am completely missing? (I am not interested in being a PA - I would like to be able to work independently of a supervising physician.) Am I worrying about nothing? Eternal thanks to anybody who answers this.

Edit: College freshman, no degree, lab experience but no shadowing experience, 3.8 GPA. Will try to arrange shadowing experience as soon as I can

You should at least try for MD, both pediatric and psychiatric residency programs are relatively tolerant of people starting families.

The independent practice difference between NP and PA is overrated, you should reconsider it if the MD path seems too long for you. The training for PAs is better, NP programs are incredibly variable, most much less rigorous than good PA schools.

Main advantage of an NP is that you can get paid as an RN while you complete your degree, so probably the easiest to do financially.

 

[762513]

That’s nice. I don’t know where you’re from but I’m talking about SoCal.

SoCal is an exception due to state staffing laws.

@op, don't go NP. If you do, please for the love of god do NOT practice independently. Your training will almost certainly be nowhere near adequate to do so. If you'd rather take a shorter but well-paying path then go PA.



The average RN works less than 40 hours a week though. Average NP is working much close to physician hours. I'd take 66k at 36 hrs/wk over 100k for 60hrs/wk.

This is not correct. NP’s work 36/40 hours a week, very comparable to RN’s.

 

[Lucid_Dream]

SoCal is an exception due to state staffing laws.


This is not correct. NP’s work 36/40 hours a week, very comparable to RN’s.

It depends. NPs work anywhere from 40-60 hours judging by what I've seen. FNPs seem to work closer to 40, and specialty ones closer to 60.

As a field, at least in my state, NPs make more money and have more power than PAs, however PAs have a better education.

And nursing unions may affect how much many nurses make in other states. I assume that since unions ensure that floors remain appropriately staffed, there is no incentive to pay nurses to cover short shifts. At 3 hospitals I have worked at in my non unionized state, they all offer single, double, and rarely triple "incentive pay" 10$ extra per hour for single, 20$ extra for double, and 30$ extra for triple. I have gotten two triple EPs in 2 years, and single is offered virtually every single shift picked up, and double is pretty common aswell. On top of that you get time and a half on your base+shift and weekend diffs. The money flows if you're willing to work.

 

[762513]

It depends. NPs work anywhere from 40-60 hours judging by what I've seen. FNPs seem to work closer to 40, and specialty ones closer to 60.

As a field, at least in my state, NPs make more money and have more power than PAs, however PAs have a better education.

You’re incorrect on how many hours NP’s work in my area at least.

 

[Stagg737]

You’re incorrect on how many hours NP’s work in my area at least.

You live in a strange area. I don't know any NPs who work less than 50 hours a week full time and like Matthew said, I've met quite a few who decided to go back to working as RNs because NP work was more stressful than they expected.

 

[762513]

You live in a strange area. I don't know any NPs who work less than 50 hours a week full time and like Matthew said, I've met quite a few who decided to go back to working as RNs because NP work was more stressful than they expected.

I don’t know what to tell ya, bub. Most places im interviewing I see NP’s working 35-40 hours per week. Matching a RN schedule as a NP is a strategy to draw NP’s to their positions and maintain a strong work/life balance.

 

[Doc_Ock]

I don’t know what to tell ya, bub. Most places im interviewing I see NP’s working 35-40 hours per week. Matching a RN schedule as a NP is a strategy to draw NP’s to their positions and maintain a strong work/life balance.

sounds like your place is doing HR management right, at least in that aspect.

 

[Lucid_Dream]

Its good if having time off is your priority. Some of us don't mind working 5-6 days away to bank money away. Don't know of many other 30 year olds that have bought and paid off their house...

 

[762513]

Its good if having time off is your priority. Some of us don't mind working 5-6 days away to bank money away. Don't know of many other 30 year olds that have bought and paid off their house...

Between teaching, bedside nursing, job interviews, and working on getting a manuscript published I’m pulling those kinds of hours too at the moment. I like the idea of being able to choose to take a slower week and only work 3/4 days though. It’s important to feel like I do have some control, know what I mean?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I don’t know what to tell ya, bub. Most places im interviewing I see NP’s working 35-40 hours per week. Matching a RN schedule as a NP is a strategy to draw NP’s to their positions and maintain a strong work/life balance.

Your experience is the exception rather than the rule in most places I've been, including states on both coasts and in the middle of the country.

 

[Stagg737]

sounds like your place is doing HR management right, at least in that aspect.

But doing finances very wrong if they're being compensated as well as he claims and only working 36 hours a week...

 

[Lucid_Dream]

Between teaching, bedside nursing, job interviews, and working on getting a manuscript published I’m pulling those kinds of hours too at the moment. I like the idea of being able to choose to take a slower week and only work 3/4 days though. It’s important to feel like I do have some control, know what I mean?

Oh I feel you. My current dilemma is whether to chase my passion to be a general surgeon, or to choose a less demanding job such as hospitalist or OD so Ill have more time for hobbies and family. Its very tough for me. I really feel like I would get bored doing the less intensive careers though. A big part of why I love my job is responding to codes and other high stress situations.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Oh I feel you. My current dilemma is whether to chase my passion to be a general surgeon, or to choose a less demanding job such as hospitalist or OD so Ill have more time for hobbies and family. Its very tough for me. I really feel like I would get bored doing the less intensive careers though. A big part of why I love my job is responding to codes and other high stress situations.

When you're an attending, you can make time for those things if you're willing to make a little less. Many of the general surgeons I worked with had active hobbies and family lives. There were the few who spent almost every waking moment (and non-waking) in the hospital because they had terrible family lives, but they were the minority.

 

[762513]

Your experience is the exception rather than the rule in most places I've been, including states on both coasts and in the middle of the country.

Maybe? As a NP I have a group of NP friends and we are all sharing the same experiences with hiring and interviewing. Surgery does mad hours as well as some inpatient specialties, otherwise its 35-40 hours a week pretty consistently.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Maybe? As a NP I have a group of NP friends and we are all sharing the same experiences with hiring and interviewing. Surgery does mad hours as well as some inpatient specialties, otherwise its 35-40 hours a week pretty consistently.

I'll grant that the majority of the NPs I know are surgical NPs or oncology NPs, so that probably skews it a bit.

 

[762513]

Oh I feel you. My current dilemma is whether to chase my passion to be a general surgeon, or to choose a less demanding job such as hospitalist or OD so Ill have more time for hobbies and family. Its very tough for me. I really feel like I would get bored doing the less intensive careers though. A big part of why I love my job is responding to codes and other high stress situations.

Sounds like you're an adrenaline junkie like me. However, work life balance is important, and having adequate time off and occasional vacations actually makes you a better employee, not a worse one.

 

[Lucid_Dream]

Maybe? As a NP I have a group of NP friends and we are all sharing the same experiences with hiring and interviewing. Surgery does mad hours as well as some inpatient specialties, otherwise its 35-40 hours a week pretty consistently.

Right. If you want to do mental health or FNP, the two most flooded NP fields that I am aware of. I would hate to see how bad the situation will be in 10-20 years with these NP mills becoming ever more so popular.

 

[Lucid_Dream]

Sounds like you're an adrenaline junkie like me. However, work life balance is important, and having adequate time off and occasional vacations actually makes you a better employee, not a worse one.

You might could say that.

 

[762513]

Right. If you want to do mental health or FNP, the two most flooded NP fields that I am aware of. I would hate to see how bad the situation will be in 10-20 years with these NP mills becoming ever more so popular.

Mental health is a flooded NP area? Not even close, at least in my area. Psych NP's are in high demand and make some of the best cash in the field.

 

[762513]

You might could say that.View attachment 241167

Turret of a gun truck aiming at an Iraqi building in the green zone or camp victory?

 

[Lucid_Dream]

They are where I live. I know a mental health NP that has FIVE jobs. No thanks. This person was my clinical nursing instructor's daughter. Picking up my transcript last week she told me "Don't do NP whatever you do, and if you DO go NP, do not pick mental health". So n=1. Don't know what that was all about.

 

[Lucid_Dream]

Turret of a gun truck aiming at an Iraqi building in the green zone or camp victory?

IHT in camp slayer 2008. Ran prisoners from Al Basra to Slayer from Sept 08-Jan 09 and then Detainee air transport from Jan 09-March 09 and then PSD for a general from March 09-Sept 09.

 

[762513]

They are where I live. I know a mental health NP that has FIVE jobs. No thanks. This person was my clinical nursing instructor's daughter. Picking up my transcript last week she told me "Don't do NP whatever you do, and if you DO go NP, do not pick mental health". So n=1. Don't know what that was all about.

I wouldn't be afraid of NP route. Sounds like you have a solid background. You'll do well, especially if you happen to be a male.

 

[762513]

IHT in camp slayer 2008.

I was OIF II 04-05 anbar province and Baghdad.

 

[Lucid_Dream]

I wouldn't be afraid of NP route. Sounds like you have a solid background. You'll do well, especially if you happen to be a male.

I respect some NP's but I don't have much respect for how the profession is being handled. I have much more respect for CRNA.

 

[762513]

I respect some NP's but I don't have much respect for how the profession is being handled. I have much more respect for CRNA.

I can buy that. You take NP's one at a time based on their background and experience. Calling all NP's "trash" as has been often done on this website is foolish.