Surgical Procedures and your own animals

[athane960]

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Ok, so one of our labs had to have a bone biopsy this past week. The vet knows me and knows I am going to vet school, so invited me to stay in the room for it but I refused. In college I was a vet assistant for many years and I saw a ton of disgusting things and I had no issue with it as long as it was not MY dog.

For some reason when it comes to my own dogs, I cannot bear to be in the room while they are getting anything more serious then their routine checkups (except for minor things like ear cleanings, etc). I am not sure why, I get all nervous and shaky and cannot even look. the first time I experienced this was when my current 10 yo black lab was a puppy I got her spayed at the clinic I worked at. I was all ready to help with the surgery but had to leave shortly and get a replacement because I just couldn't bear to see her cut into . . . . . The vet said he understood and is the same way but he might have just been being nice.

Don't get me wrong, in an emergency I am sure I will man . .er . .woman up and get do whatever needs to be done, but vets who know me well and of my future goals are always inviting me to stand or help out on procedures on my dogs that normally they wouldn't for another owner. . . and I refuse.

Does anyone else experience this? Or do next time I need to deal with this and work on getting over this? I don't plan on being a clinic veterinarian but work in public health, but at this point if I do change my mind I am not sure I can ever do surgery on my own dog.

Now, if I don't own the dog . . . I am as cool as can be and it doesn't bother me one bit.

 

[zpinkpanther]

I totally understand how you feel. The vet I worked with asked me if I wanted to assist when my cat was neutered, and I just couldn't. I think it's partially because I don't really like surgery as a rule (I mean, of course, sometimes it's necessary, but I much prefer internal medicine) and partially because my cat is my baby. Seriously, I love him as if he were my own child. I don't think I could bear seeing him under anesthesia and being cut into and everything, even though it was just for a neuter.

Yeah, you're definitely not alone in this. 🙂

 

[aspiringDVM]

There's such a huge difference between other people's animals and your own. I had no problem observing my golden's tumor removals a few years ago, but there was absolutely no way I was going to hang around when her leg was amputated (I was at home in bed, sobbing). I doubt anyone will expect you to perform surgery on your own animals -- I'm pretty sure there are actually laws that prohibit this in human medicine.

 

[VeganChick]

I think it is ok in veterinary medicine to perform surgery on your own animals. I always wonder what I would do in that situation. If something goes wrong when you do it, you would feel horrible. If someone else did it and screwed up, you would also feel horrible.

 

[Shanomong]

I have to leave the room when blood is drawn from my dogs 😀, I feel like don't want them to know that I had any part in doing this to them. My Pomeranian recently had a lump resected, and I wasn't there for it... partly because it happened before I woke up, but also because I don't think I could handle it. He's our #1 though, our first dog and in our opinion the best dog out there 🙂. I did take part in hip x-rays on our Chihuahua when he was sedated with Dormitor, but I guess that's different because he's not being cut... and I did feel awful for him when he was waking up from it and he was confused/scared.

Our newest addition, a Rottie, is going to need an FHO in a few months... as of now I'm set on trying to get in on the surgery and have some part in it, so I can say 10 years from now when I've been practicing for a bit that she was the first surgery I ever really assisted in (other than holding back skin flaps and suctioning etc...)... I guess maybe because she's just been with us a week at this point I don't have that freaked out feeling about it, but by the time the surgery rolls around who knows...

Either way, you're not alone at all. A Chihuahua who belongs to 2 of the vets I work with recently had 2 mammory tumors removed... when I asked "mom and dad" if they were doing the surgery I got an emphatic "hell no" from both 😛. Dad did do a cysto post-sx, and I've never seen him go so slow and cringe as much doing one... he felt so bad about it.

 

[AgtOrange]

I guess I may be a little bit of a paranoid control freak, because I'm the total opposite - if anything needs to be done with my pet, I'm the only one who's going to do it (with the exception of surgery of course, but I'll still be present). Of course I know it's completely irrational since I have plenty of trust in my co-workers and I HATE it when clients refuse to let us take their pet into "the back". I rationalize it as, if anyone is going to make a mistake, it'd better be me.

 

[tkim]

I doubt anyone will expect you to perform surgery on your own animals -- I'm pretty sure there are actually laws that prohibit this in human medicine.

Actually, there aren't any laws prohibiting someone from operating on your family members and relatives. It's considered poor form, since your clinical judgement may be impaired because of the relationship you have with the patient, but it's not illegal.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=4275cdcaf242194d96f82199b75b9e76

"Despite published opinions urging special caution, including this one, there are in fact no legal or professional prohibitions against operating on family members, eliminating Option A as a reason for rejecting the concept. The AMA's position specifies exceptions: "It would not always be inappropriate to undertake self-treatment or treatment of immediate family members. In emergencies or isolated settings where there is no other qualified physician available, physicians should not hesitate to treat themselves or family members until another physician becomes available."7 Council on Ethical and Judicial Affairs, American Medical Association. Opinion 8:19: Self-treatment of treatment of immediate family, Code of Medical Ethics, AMA Press, Chicago (2002)."

 

[sumstorm]

My perspective might be a bit different. Growing up, there was really only one vet in the area, and he happened to be my mother's employer. She was his surgical tech. So all the surgeries that were done on our dogs were performed by that vet with her assisting. I routinely spent school holidays at the clinic (cleaning, filing, organizing) and on days where he performed surgery, observed. The first surgery I ever watched was the neuter of the dog I grew up with (after the vet finally convinced my father.) I also lived on my parent's farm from 7yo on and we did a lot of routine procedures without vet supervision (castration, caponizing, dehorning, tail docking, etc.) So working on my own animals has not bothered me.

I do have one dog that came to me as an adult (from a shelter) who I can't be in the room with during routine procedures because he throws a huge tantrum. Far worse than when I am not present ( I don't coddle him or such when he does that junk, so not sure how it developed...I have only had him for a year and at the vet's twice.) He isn't easy to hold (small, strong, sturdy JRT) and is just a brat with me there (I have observed through a viewing window in such a way that he couldn't see me...he was still a brat, but not nearly as intense.)

If I had the skill, I would be ok performing surgery.

I also held my own dogs during euthanasia. The first time when I was 14yo (kidney failure in a dog the same age.) My parents thought it was important for me to be a part of it...and it was hard but now I am glad I was.

I also have held my most recent employer's dog during euth which she performed.

 

[sumstorm]

Actually, there aren't any laws prohibiting someone from operating on your family members and relatives. It's considered poor form, since your clinical judgement may be impaired because of the relationship you have with the patient, but it's not illegal.

I recently read an article (maybe in Real Simple) about a plastic surgeon who performed a face lift on his mother. His reasoning was that while it did disturb him, he didn't feel anyone in the field was more qualified or better at the procedure than he was and that he would obviously be more concerned than anyone else.

 

[hlkcirdnek]

I was the same way when my shepherd mix had to go under for an endoscopy. One of the internists I work for did the procedure, and I hand-picked the techs I wanted in the room. I peeked in once or twice after she was under, but I couldn't bear to see her so vulnerable.

 

[eventualeventer]

I go both ways on being there for procedures on my own animals. For minor things, I'm fine -- I'm able to maintain the same sort of distance as with clients' animals. In fact, I couldn't help but laugh at Meatbag's protestations when a friend came over to draw blood for a recheck in Meatbag's last days. She was yowling to beat the band just because I had her scruffed and on her side, but her reaction did not escalate when the needle went in: she was just mad at the indignity of it all. I've given subQ fluids and IM shots to my cats, and IM and IV shots to "my" horses with no problem.

However, when Piko came in for his suspensory surgery last summer, I was very glad that I was not even at work that day. I could not stand even the thought of watching him crumple and go down from the anesthetic, or wobble as he got to his feet afterwards. Even though they have an excellent safety record with anesthesia where I work, and even though I know and love all of the anesthetists at work, part of my brain was convinced that something horrible was going to happen, and I didn't want to be there to watch it.

I've been of two minds when it comes to euthanasia. The first euthanasia that I watched was a horse that I had ridden and loved, and it gave me great comfort to be there for her and to know that she had a very sudden and peaceful death. When William was euthanized, I was unable to be there, and it took me a long time to stop agonizing over that. I wanted to be the one to hold his lead rope, let him smell my hand, and murmur to him as the vet put him to sleep, but it just couldn't happen. I've forgiven myself and managed to come to some sort of peace, but my heart aches when I think about the fact that I didn't get a chance to say goodbye. OTOH, when it was time for Meatbag to pass, I deliberately was not there. I scheduled it for the last possible day that I could coordinate the right people and spoiled the heck out of her that week. The morning that she died, a dear friend came over, we knocked her out with ketamine IM, and my friend took her to our work nearby for a vet to euthanize her. Meatbag went to sleep in my arms, but I did not have to be there while they found a vein and injected the pink stuff.

Most of the vets I've known have done most of the procedures on their own animals, but the one vet I've known when he had to PTS one of his own horses asked one of the other vets to do it.

 

[athane960]

Well It is good to see I am not the only one.

LIke I said, I am ok with the minor things, but the majors . . uhuh no way.

Except for euthanasia. My first and only other dog died suddenly and without warning so it spared me having to make that choice, but if I have to do that with my current dog, then I will definitely be there with her for the process. I cant see it any other way, I think I owe her that. Not that I am criticizing those who choose not to be there, I understand that, it is just a personal choice.

 

[VeganChick]

Since I always want to be holding my pet during euthanasia, I don't think I would want to administer it myself. The only touch I want my pet to feel from me in the last moments is love.

 

[guppy73]

The timing of this thread couldn't be better! I'm doing a dental on my dog next week, & I definitely have some mixed feelings. The vet has offered to do it if I want, but I think I may at least start it. (She'll do the extractions, of course.) I keep telling myself that it will make my dog feel better and that it will be satisfying for me to get his teeth clean. It will also remind me to brush his teeth more often in the future.

But that doesn't change the fact that I'm freaking out a bit....I'll check back in here after it's done.

 

[athane960]

Oh heck Veganchick, I didn't mean I would administer the euthanasia, I just meant I would hold my dog through it . . .. .😳 sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like that . .

Good luck Guppy with the dental work!!

 

[clairbear]

I don't think I could ever euthanize one of my own animals either.

I did watch when my goat Maggie had a c-section. It wasn't one of the vets I usually shadow because they're both small animal, but it was a vet I might shadow with this summer (because they are a bit farther away) and he said he didn't mind if I watched. Of course at that point I was half asleep from being up all night, but I was worried about how the kids were and decided to watch. I did bother me a bit to see Maggie like that, but I knew I would regret it if I didn't watch.

I don't know if I could actually do a surgery on my own animal though because I would be too worried about them and I might not be able to remove myself adequetly from the situation.

 

[Pointer1330]

I will definitely be wanting to do any of the procedures I'm capable of doing on my animals. I guess I trust myself more than others. My wife is the same way (a Vet), and ironically we are going to spay one of our dogs tomorrow night (a date night 🙂). Since I'm not in school yet she's only let me do minor things, but I've taken a small growth off of one of my dogs and stitched her up a couple of times and didn't mind it a bit.

 

[philomycus]

One of the vets I worked for can't even draw blood on her own cat. No problem at all with other animals (of course). I'm sure I could do routine things, but I would never want to do surgery on my own animals. So, you're not alone.

When I had my squirrel's leg amputated, the vet was more than willing to let me assist, but I couldn't do it. I felt much better in the waiting room.

 

[chyactnate]

I could probably do the surgeries that I am capapble of on horses, but I dont think I would be able to euthanise my own pets. I want to be with them during their last moments so they know that they are loved🙂

 

[ckgilabert]

i'm the same way. i took my dog to the vet, and he was like "she has a heart murmur".....anyway, i thought it was the end of the world and i was thinking i was a bad parent and that she was going to die....and everything else that was horrible to think of. lol.


anyway, good luck with your pets. i'm hoping i have the strength to be in the room when my dogs are euthanized. its sooo sad. 🙁

 

[StillDreaming]

our pets become very much like our kids, and to see your own kids on the surgery table is scary.

I'm pretty sure a parent that is a surgeon, wouldn't perform surgery on their child.

I don't have any pets up at school, and haven't had this opportunity, but I'm not sure how i would handle it. I think I would jump right in and help, but that's my sideline talk, who knows what i would do should this situation every come up. Hmm, i wouldn't stress too much over it, and you'll have plent of friends/co-workers in the future to perform surgeries on your pets.

 

[sumstorm]

It may also depend on circumstances. If the nearest other vet is several hours away, you may find it more viable to perform a procedure yourself. Also, if you are the only 'expert' in the state in a given procedure, you may decide your skills outweigh your reluctance.

 

[twelvetigers]

The vet I work for neuter/spays her own dogs. My guess is there was no way in heck she would pay someone else to do it, and it's a single vet practice, so...

 

[sumstorm]

Oh, from what I understand (odd tangent) NCSU allows you to adopt the first animal you perform a neuter on.

 

[Shanomong]

Oh, from what I understand (odd tangent) NCSU allows you to adopt the first animal you perform a neuter on.

I have a freind who went to NCSU and owns the dog who would have been his first spay... but they opened her up and found out she was spayed already. Didn't realize that was a 'thing" they do there 🙂

 

[AidanEvieCleo]

I have heard of students at UC Davis also adopting their first spay/neuter, and also adopting cats, dogs and other small critters from the animal handling labs. I think they get first dibs, then the animals are up for general adoption.

 

[Vydellia]

I don't know how I'd feel about surgery. Up until now, I generally like to be the one monitoring anesthesia, giving injections, or drawing blood on my own animals. When my chinchilla was having problems with his teeth and I had to take him to a clinic other than my own, I couldn't do that, but they did let me come back and be there (the perks of being a tech). That made me feel alot better, but I still would have liked to be the one monitoring.

So that makes me tempted to say that I would want to be the one doing the surgery, but I'm not sure. I guess if it was something routine like a spay, then I'd want to be the one doing it. I might feel differently about an abdominal exploratory or something where I would be stressed about the outcome.

 

[guppy73]

Good luck Guppy with the dental work!!

Thanks! Done now, & all better. 🙂 Have to admit that it was a bit strange, helping with the premed & induction on my own dog, not to mention the actual procedure. Once I settled in & started the cleaning, it really could've been any dog, any day. But every now & then I'd remember that MY dog was on the table, & it would be surreal for just a moment. Then back to business.

I'm glad I was able to be there & help him out. He has 11 fewer teeth now 😱 (vet did the extractions, of course). Actually seeing how bad some of them were will remind me to be better about brushing the remaining ones in the future! 😀

 

[VeganSoprano]

I've gotten better about doing things like blood draws, cystos, and catheter placement on my own animals. Anything that involves anesthesia, though, I leave for someone else. I can watch as long as things are going well but I do have to leave the room if they start getting hypotensive or bradycardic. I trust the people I work with and the last thing they need is a worried mom in the room!

I don't think I'll ever be able to do sx on my own animals, though I expect I'll be fine with fosters. And I can't imagine I would ever euthanize my own animal (even a foster) except in an extreme situation without another qualified person to do it.