The ultimate COVID thread

[radsisrad]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Seriously. So why do they even need docs in the first place? Why don’t all these nurses and RTs run the ship.

We really need to band together and stand up for ourselves.

People like you aren’t helping.

A nurse's job is to tend directly to patients in carrying out physician orders.

An RT's job is to directly manipulate O2-delivery/ventilation equipment.

A non-proceduralist physician's job is to briefly assess via physical exam, then to gather relevant diagnostic information and formulate a therapeutic plan. The average internist (and even most surgeons) have much less face time with pts than nurses and RTs.

I specifically excluded anesthesiologists. If I were being called upon to act in a procedural role, I would expect hazard pay.

 

[chocomorsel]

A nurse's job is to tend directly to patients in carrying out physician orders.

An RT's job is to directly manipulate O2-delivery/ventilation equipment.

A non-proceduralist physician's job is to briefly assess via physical exam, then to gather relevant diagnostic information and formulate a therapeutic plan. The average internist (and even most surgeons) have much less face time with pts than nurses and RTs.

I specifically excluded anesthesiologists. If I were being called upon to act in a procedural role, I would expect hazard pay.

I wonder if you are even a doctor. And without the physician "briefly assessing" and coming up with these patient's treatment plans, where exactly would they end up? So you think we should just volunteer our services because we don't physically interact with patients? And how much is that "brief assessment" and "formulation of a therapeutic plan" equal? Two dollars? And what about ER doctors who are triaging all these patients without knowing for sure they have Covid?

Don't exclude anesthesiologists because most of us work in an ACT model and hardly have much contact with the patients, besides a brief assessment and coming up with a plan. And in that same spirit, don't knock on other physicians saying they hardly see patients. At a time like this, we need to stand up for each other, because we are all being treated poorly to different extents. Everyone, who sets foot where the patients are and takes care of those patients and everything around them needs hazard pay. This disease is not transmitted by blood and body fluids. It's everywhere.

Who's making money for these hospitals? Are we not? So let the nurses and RTs make the good extra pay while we get to volunteer? Ok. Again people like you aren't helping the cause.

 

[anbuitachi]

A nurse's job is to tend directly to patients in carrying out physician orders.

An RT's job is to directly manipulate O2-delivery/ventilation equipment.

A non-proceduralist physician's job is to briefly assess via physical exam, then to gather relevant diagnostic information and formulate a therapeutic plan. The average internist (and even most surgeons) have much less face time with pts than nurses and RTs.

I specifically excluded anesthesiologists. If I were being called upon to act in a procedural role, I would expect hazard pay.

doctor also have more patients. spend less face time with each one perhaps, but you have way more. plus work long hours.
with that said, final responsbility really still lands on the MD. nurse cant get blood or get an IV? it's up to MD, etc

and also if you work on front lines you should get hazard pay. we arent rly comparing time spent. what if RT spends more face time with patients than nurses? so that means nurses shouldnt get hazard pay?

 

[anbuitachi]

Why? In a shortage?

heard of one of hospitals didnt let . esp if its like a PAPR. bc other people complain

 

[vector2]

ICU RNs may have a lot of face time with pts, but have you ever tried to get a consent witnessed by a floor nurse? They hide better than Predator in a rain forest.

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

Excellent article addressing what I asked a few days back regarding what's the end game? Is shutting down the economy (eventually civilization as we know it. Toilet paper today, milk and bread tomorrow) simply about both healthcare capacity and buying time for a vaccine or cure, or is there more to it? The answer apparently is there's really not much more to it.

If you are under the healthcare capacity and this runs its course before a vaccine or cure, you're not going to affect total deaths by very much regardless of what you do. It's still all about herd immunity. And more ironically, the better you are about shutting it down, the longer you'll shut it down because herd immunity will come slower.

Also, the cold hard reality is our ventilated patients are doing horribly, whether we hit healthcare capacity or not. This is why I'm not so sure all states need to be treated the same. You shut down a place with relatively few cases, that's great for now, but sooner or later you need herd immunity and you haven't even scratched the surface in those areas. Are you going to shut them down till we have a vaccine?

(on a side note, if we get a summer slowdown and a pickup during flu season I don't see how we have any kind of large close gatherings for the entire next viral season. Herd immunity might be at a few percent, basically insignificant. All 4 major sports shut down in October, conventions, concerts, 300 people crammed in on an airplane etc etc etc. Crazy times).

When, and How, Does the Coronavirus Pandemic End?

With confirmed cases of Covid-19 globally exceeding 1 million and more countries going into lockdown to slow the pandemic, the emerging question is: “When will this all end?” The answer depends in large part on uncertainties about the novel coronavirus that causes the disease, including whether...

www.bloomberg.com

 

[coffeebythelake]

I've spent time in China and years living in Asia.

Wow I guess that makes you an expert 🙄

 

[Mad Jack]

Seriously. So why do they even need docs in the first place? Why don’t all these nurses and RTs run the ship.

We really need to band together and stand up for ourselves.

People like you aren’t helping.

We're largely putting in orders that can't be fulfilled without nursing and RT support. One physician can direct dozens of staff, and the number of people we direct can easily be scaled up. Not so with bedside care- there's only so many things a nurse or RT can physically do. We are necessary, but without staff we're can't do our jobs. They can operate with far less physicians in a crisis, but we can't operate with far less nurses/RTs

 

[deleted87051]

We're largely putting in orders that can't be fulfilled without nursing and RT support. One physician can direct dozens of staff, and the number of people we direct can easily be scaled up. Not so with bedside care- there's only so many things a nurse or RT can physically do. We are necessary, but without staff we're can't do our jobs. They can operate with far less physicians in a crisis, but we can't operate with far less nurses/RTs

We could always retrain as nurses and RT’s.

Surgeons-in-training learn important skills to back up key allies during the coronavirus pandemic nurses

Surgical residents at USC medical centers have embraced being trained for nursing duties as part of caring for COVID-19 patients.

news.usc.edu

 

[Mad Jack]

We could always retrain as nurses and RT’s.

Surgeons-in-training learn important skills to back up key allies during the coronavirus pandemic nurses

Surgical residents at USC medical centers have embraced being trained for nursing duties as part of caring for COVID-19 patients.

news.usc.edu

I mean, I'm already a respiratory therapist. My qualifications still haven't lapsed lol

 

[aimedicine]

That’s precisely the point. Doctor can fulfill the role of a nurse but not the other way around.

 

[deleted87051]

That’s precisely the point. Doctor can fulfill the role of a nurse but not the other way around.

Some doctors can. It would be difficult for many other doctors to retrain as an ICU nurse. Their skill sets are completely different.

 

[chocomorsel]

We're largely putting in orders that can't be fulfilled without nursing and RT support. One physician can direct dozens of staff, and the number of people we direct can easily be scaled up. Not so with bedside care- there's only so many things a nurse or RT can physically do. We are necessary, but without staff we're can't do our jobs. They can operate with far less physicians in a crisis, but we can't operate with far less nurses/RTs

Seriously, though, I am with @nimbus. We could allow physicians to work with nurses and RT if they have nothing else to do. I am sure many would be happy to make 14K a week instead of nothing. I mean, carry out the orders, assist with intubations, etc.
Not meant to be a joke.
But 14k a week is a nice chunk of change. I wonder how many hours a week that is though, because I bet it's like for an 84 hour week.

 

[chocomorsel]

Some doctors can. It would be difficult for many other doctors to retrain as an ICU nurse. Their skill sets are completely different.

Not all but some. The surgeons and internists for sure if they need work as they do have some ICU experience. If they truly want to help that is and don't care in what capacity. I know I am bored as hell and can't wait to get back to work now that I have gotten over my anxieties of this virus.

 

[anbuitachi]

Seriously, though, I am with @nimbus. We could allow physicians to work with nurses and RT if they have nothing else to do. I am sure many would be happy to make 14K a week instead of nothing. I mean, carry out the orders, assist with intubations, etc.
Not meant to be a joke.
But 14k a week is a nice chunk of change. I wonder how many hours a week that is though, because I bet it's like for an 84 hour week.

i believe it is around 80 hrs a week. their contract is 21 days. i dont know if they get any days off.

 

[anbuitachi]

also for those that says we need to have this administration accountable. what are you suggesting? this admin has already done a ton of crap. yet he's still in office. theres not much you can do if people keep voting for him. what will you do? sue him? then it just uses up our tax money.

 

[radsisrad]

That’s precisely the point. Doctor can fulfill the role of a nurse but not the other way around.

Speak for yourself. I blew through the damn vein every time I tried to insert an IV as a med student, haha.

Hence, my decision to hide behind a computer monitor for the rest of my career. 😀

 

[chocomorsel]

i believe it is around 80 hrs a week. their contract is 21 days. i dont know if they get any days off.

Well that makes more sense, then. Everyone around here talking about 14K a week for these nurses like it's a regular work week. Honestly, 21 days in a row of 12 hour shifts, seems unsafe IMHO. Then you start making mistakes in donning and doffing and spread that bug.

 

[Ronin786]

We could always retrain as nurses and RT’s.

Surgeons-in-training learn important skills to back up key allies during the coronavirus pandemic nurses

Surgical residents at USC medical centers have embraced being trained for nursing duties as part of caring for COVID-19 patients.

news.usc.edu

I'm sure some nurse out in the universe will get enraged by this, but it's not terribly hard for a physician to monitor vitals or learn how to titrate drips. Everything they do nowadays is protocoled and every medication they give has a sheet of instructions.

 

[drmwvr]

What is unreal is the complete loss of perspective in folk that would use this contagion to grind a political axe...betrays a certain character type. When you consider the number of huge not-for-profit hospital systems that should have been in prepper mode instead of new building projects and exectutive bonuses (many physicians included) that epidemics come as any surprise is laughable.

What is also laughable is that NFP hospitals are scrounging for stuff and are blaming politicians

 

[aimedicine]

Speak for yourself. I blew through the damn vein every time I tried to insert an IV as a med student, haha.

Hence, my decision to hide behind a computer monitor for the rest of my career. 😀

stop being dramatic, 1 week in the preop area with me and you would have become proficient at starting iv. Beside we have ultrasound now, so it makes it even easier.

 

[leaverus]

But 14k a week is a nice chunk of change. I wonder how many hours a week that is though, because I bet it's like for an 84 hour week.

so it'd be like residency except i'd be making 10x what i was then? sign me up!

 

[vector2]

Speak for yourself. I blew through the damn vein every time I tried to insert an IV as a med student, haha.

Hence, my decision to hide behind a computer monitor for the rest of my career. 😀

You guys rotate on IR and do plenty of biopsies on other rotations, right? You may suck at IVs but most of you can easily put in a central line.

 

[chocomorsel]

Haha

so it'd be like residency except i'd be making 10x what i was then? sign me up!

Haha! Some docs are furloughed right now so yeah, that’s good money instead of nothing. But I have a feeling some docs and nurses will ave a problem with this on principle alone.

 

[coffeebythelake]

stop being dramatic, 1 week in the preop area with me and you would have become proficient at starting iv. Beside we have ultrasound now, so it makes it even easier.

it takes a lot more time than that to develop a proficiency.
and if you're a newb and never placed an IV before, being in a PAPR using an ultrasound isn't a great way to go about learning

 

[Ronin786]

It is a little ironic that hospitals and our healthcare have done everything they possibly can to devalue the minds and clinical making of physicians in favor of just generating revenue through procedures (ortho, neurosurgery, interventionalists, GI) and now they're realizing how you can't create a doctor overnight. Too bad we'll go back to what we were after all this is over.

 

[coffeebythelake]

The first SARS outbreak in 2004 emanated from a Chinese CDC lab in Beijing and they've admitted it.

Source?

The Wuhan institute of virology has been experimenting with bat viruses for years ; combining then with SARS-1 and have been able to make hybrid viruses that could infect human cells. This is reported by Nature magazine.

Link to the article in Nature magazine?

 

[coffeebythelake]

SARS | April 30, 2004 Update on Outbreak in Beijing | CDC

SARS, CDC Update on Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome for international travel

www.cdc.gov

"The Chinese Ministry of Health reported one new possible SARS case in Beijing on April 28, bringing the total to nine possible cases. This new possible case-patient was known to have been in close contact with one of the Beijing patients under medical care for possible SARS.

Two of the nine possible SARS case-patients worked at the National Institute of Virology Laboratory of China’s Center for Disease Control in Beijing. The laboratory is known to conduct research on SARS coronavirus (SARS-CoV). The laboratory has been closed, potentially exposed personnel are being screened, and possible sources of infection for the two laboratory workers are being investigated."

Ok.

Either you misread what is written in your source, or you are purposely manipulating your words to support your argument.

You attribute China CDC to bioengineering COVID19. You didn't say it outright, but you say it is a "solid theory" that it came "from a lab". Ergo it was not found in nature and bioengineered.

Your evidence is that China CDC has done it before. Around April 2004 there was another SARS outbreak where 2 possible infected worked for the China CDC. This is not the "first outbreak". The "first outbreak" of SARS started in late 2002. I remember this very well because I was living in Toronto in 2003 when it became the hotspot of SARS outside of China.

Get your timeline right if you're going to make a "solid theory" with flimsy support. Any sort of scrutiny and your argument falls apart.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Covid 19 was not Bioengineered. I have been clear about that point from the start. There is a possibility that Covid 19 came from one of the Chinese Labs by accident due to sloppiness or cross-contamination. The Chinese did not release Covid 19 on purpose. But, they did cover it up in Wuhan for several weeks if not a month. More importantly, the Chinese Communist Party has allowed the WET MARKETS to remain open selling rare, live animals for human consumption. Even today, those Wet Markets are still open doing business.

WE, as a society, have had almost 18 years to work on a treatment or vaccine against COVID/SARS. If such a treatment existed today there is a strong possibility that hundreds of thousands of people across the globe would be alive today. Even that 15 year old Vaccine (I am assuming a Vaccine from 2005) may have conferred some protection against Covid 19.

For those who just want to blame TRUMP the facts are irrefutable here. All 3 administrations failed in preparing for the Pandemic. The Chinese Communist Party lied about the initial outbreak, covered it up by killing a physician then down-played the severity of the disease itself.

 

[Nephro critical care]

Source?
Link to the article in Nature magazine?

The Chinese government has been doing some highly irresponsible stuff in Wuhan since 2015. Through the institute of Virology which is the only "level 4" biohazard facility in China they created a hybrid of a bat coronavirus and the original deadly SARS virus. They published this research in Nature Medicine in 2015. This hybrid virus through a spike protein is able to have the pathogenicity of the original SARS and be highly infectious and airborne like the bat virus.
Look at this publication in Nature 2015. This hybrid virus kills older people easily. It also is not affected by immunoglobulin ( so antibody infusion will not work ) and a live vaccine provides immunity for only 30 days. I predict that people who recover from the virus will have immunity for only 30 days and then be susceptible to it again.
I hypothesize that this virus was accidently leaked into Wuhan and is now this worldwide terror. I only pray that it doesn't mutate further and drives the human race to EXTINCTION.
Before criticizing me read this publication in Nature Medicine. All governments should ban research on bio-terror agents and governments that continue to do research be subjected to harsh sanctions.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

The Chinese government has been doing some highly irresponsible stuff in Wuhan since 2015. Through the institute of Virology which is the only "level 4" biohazard facility in China they created a hybrid of a bat coronavirus and the original deadly SARS virus. They published this research in Nature Medicine in 2015. This hybrid virus through a spike protein is able to have the pathogenicity of the original SARS and be highly infectious and airborne like the bat virus.
Look at this publication in Nature 2015. This hybrid virus kills older people easily. It also is not affected by immunoglobulin ( so antibody infusion will not work ) and a live vaccine provides immunity for only 30 days. I predict that people who recover from the virus will have immunity for only 30 days and then be susceptible.
I hypothesize that this virus was accidently leaked into Wuhan and is now this worldwide terror. I only pray that it doesn't mutate further and drives the human race to EXTINCTION.
Before criticizing me read this publication in Nature Medicine.

Article is very dense. Would be interesting to hear from authors on mainstream media. This research was done in part with a grant from the organization that Fauci heads. Has the makings of a great conspiracy theory!

 

[vector2]

.

WE, as a society, have had almost 18 years to work on a treatment or vaccine against COVID/SARS. If such a treatment existed today there is a strong possibility that hundreds of thousands of people across the globe would be alive today. Even that 15 year old Vaccine (I am assuming a Vaccine from 2005) may have conferred some protection against Covid 19.

This is literally just sht you are assuming or making up without a shred of a factual basis, just like the majority of your other claims about COVID treatment.

 

[BLADEMDA]

This is literally just sht you are assuming or making up without a shred of a factual basis, just like the majority of your other claims about COVID treatment.

You prefer to believe what you want to believe. Look into it and it will become quite clear the Bush/Obama administrations dropped the ball.

 

[Nephro critical care]

Article is very dense. Would be interesting to hear from authors on mainstream media. This research was done in part with a grant from the organization that Fauci heads. Has the makings of a great conspiracy theory!

Just read the abstract ; it explains the salient points.
I do not think it was intentionally released rather it was an accident. I don’t believe in a cock and bull theory about a virus migrating from bats to pangolins to humans when the Wuhan virology institute has been experimenting with bat viruses and SARS all this time.
It is criminal though that the Chinese government after finding this leak chose not to tell the rest of the world about this so they could prepare for it accordingly.

 

[vector2]

You prefer to believe what you want to believe. Look into it and it will become quite clear the Bush/Obama administrations dropped the ball.

You really have no idea what you’re talking about. Even by 2009 there still was not a vaccine that reliably protected against clinically significant SARS 1 infection in humans. You are not a virologist (or even really a layperson when it comes to viral microbiology) and therefore not even close to being qualified to speak about the difficulties of enveloped coronavirus vaccine development, so making claims without evidence that a vaccine that didn’t really work against SARS 1 is going to work (or even could work) against SARS-CoV-2 is pretty dumb.

SARS vaccines: where are we?

What is the current state of vaccine development against human severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) coronavirus?

www.medscape.com

 

[Arch Guillotti]

For those who just want to blame TRUMP the facts are irrefutable here. All 3 administrations failed in preparing for the Pandemic. The Chinese Communist Party lied about the initial outbreak, covered it up by killing a physician then down-played the severity of the disease itself.

Blade, politics necessitate that Trump takethe blame 100% however Trump refuses to take blame for anything. Fair or not, he owns this one.

 

[vector2]

Blade, politics necessitate that Trump takethe blame 100% however Trump refuses to take blame for anything. Fair or not, he owns this one.

It’s not just politics- reality dictates trump takes the blame for it.

—
The Global Health Security and Biodefense unit — responsible for pandemic preparedness — was established in 2015 by Barack Obama’s National Security Advisor, Susan Rice ( here ). The unit resided under the National Security Council (NSC) — a forum of White House personnel that advises the president on national security and foreign policy matters.

In May 2018, the team was disbanded [by Bolton] and its head Timothy Ziemer, top White House official in the NSC for leading U.S. response against a pandemic, left the Trump administration, the Washington Post reported ( here ). Some members of the global health and security team were merged into other units within the NSC, the article said.

The reorganization followed John Bolton’s appointment as national security advisor, and the departure of Tom Bossert, the homeland security advisor who the Post wrote “had called for a comprehensive biodefense strategy against pandemics and biological attacks.”
—

Not to mention, under Bush this act was passed in 2006

Pandemic and All-Hazards Preparedness Act - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Under Obama, it was re-authorized in 2013

Pandemic and All-Hazards Preparedness Reauthorization Act of 2013 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Guess what happened when it expired in 2018?

 

[coffeebythelake]

SARS-CoV of late 2002 is the SAME pathogen as SARS-CoV of 2004 emanating from the lab. Hence, it's called the 2002-2004 SARS outbreak (2002–2004 SARS outbreak - Wikipedia). Would you rather I referred to it as the "second outbreak"? FACT: In 2004, a SARS-CoV outbreak occurred out of the Chinese Institute of Virology in Beijing. (source: WHO: Beijing Lab to Blame for SARS Outbreak - 2004-04-26)

1. You were the one who called it the "first outbreak".

2. It is possible to have multiple outbreaks of the same disease. SARS was from late 2002 and was essentially contained by mid-late 2003. Most places had their numbers drop off and were declared free of disease at that time. Then there was another outbreak in 2004 from the Chinese CDC research facility in Beijing.

3. By linking the words "first outbreak" to the Chinese CDC, YOU tried to present the evidence that 2 suspected SARS cases at the Chinese CDC in 2014 as the cause of SARS. Then from this you IMPLY that COVID19 was released from a lab. Quite a huge leap of logic.

Earlier, I said you were either misreading or manipulating. The more you write the more it seems to be the latter.

"The bat researcher that Xiao’s report refers to is virologist Tian Junhua, who works at the Wuhan Centre for Disease Control. In 2004, the World Health Organization determined that an outbreak of the SARS virus had been caused by two separate leaks at the Chinese Institute of Virology in Beijing. The Chinese government said that the leaks were a result of “negligence” and the responsible officials had been punished."

"But it is a remarkable coincidence that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was researching Ebola and SARS-associated coronaviruses in bats before the pandemic outbreak, and that in the month when Wuhan doctors were treating the first patients of COVID-19, the institute announced in a hiring notice that “a large number of new bat and rodent new viruses have been discovered and identified.” And the fact that the Chinese government spent six weeks insisting that COVID-19 could not be spread from person to person means that its denials about Wuhan laboratories cannot be accepted without independent verification. "

Source: The Trail Leading Back to the Wuhan Labs | National Review

Thank you for cherry picking all the quotes that support your view, while cleverly disregarding everything else that was written in the article. INCLUDING THE FIRST LINE OF THE ARTICLE :"There’s no proof the coronavirus accidentally escaped from a laboratory, but we can’t take the Chinese government’s denials at face value." And "the director of the National Institutes of Health has written that recent genomic research “debunks such claims by providing scientific evidence that this novel coronavirus arose naturally.” Even from a right-wing publication like the National Review, they go short of saying there is proof or even strong evidence.

National Review - Bias and Credibility

RIGHT BIAS These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may

mediabiasfactcheck.com

You have at best quoted some interesting connections. But it falls short of proof and anything that can be described as "strong". But I guess for someone with tunnel vision it might appear that way.

The coronavirus was not engineered in a lab. Here's how we know.

The persistent myth can be put to bed.

www.livescience.com

The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2 - Nature Medicine

www.nature.com

Your "muddy water" approach shows you are incapable of developing a cogent train of thought when presenting an argument.

 

[vector2]

 

[Nephro critical care]

There’s no proof the coronavirus accidentally escaped from a laboratory

Isn’t it a huge co-incidence that the Chinese government is creating hybrids out of SARS and bat-viruses in Wuhan and then a huge outbreak of a bat origin coronavirus starts in the same city.

 

[Ezekiel2517]

Isn’t it a huge co-incidence that the Chinese government is creating hybrids out of SARS and bat-viruses in Wuhan and then a huge outbreak of a bat origin coronavirus starts in the same city.

Considering the fact that much of their virus research and creation of these virus hybrids, as you indicated above for example, was widely published, documented in great detail, and involved scientists+researchers from institutes all over the world including many in the US, it seems it would be quite easy for a US scientist to tell if COVID-19 originated in nature versus being engineered in a lab.

The coronavirus was not engineered in a lab. Here's how we know.

The persistent myth can be put to bed.

www.livescience.com

 

[Mman]

Isn’t it a huge co-incidence that the Chinese government is creating hybrids out of SARS and bat-viruses in Wuhan and then a huge outbreak of a bat origin coronavirus starts in the same city.

there are lots of stories in this thread that have no basis in sourced facts and lots of conjecture about what those things mean.

 

[Mman]

The fact that SARS-CoV1 slipped out of a Chinese lab in 2004 during the first outbreak of SARS in 2002-2004 tells me that it's possible it could've happened again. That's my argument.

You seem to be implying that the Chinese manufactured the virus that caused the SARS outbreak as opposed to the fact they happened to be studying in 2004 the one that spontaneously erupted in 2002.

 

[JustOnePing]

I find it interesting how all of the people posting anti-CCP/China rhetoric on this thread are either medical students or are completely unverified while all the people quashing these conspiracy theories are actual verified attending physicians. 🤔

What's needed for an SDN verification? Here's my ID if required.

 

[dabears505]

What's needed for an SDN verification? Here's my ID if required.

Have you guys been hit hard in Hawaii mclovin?

 

[Slack3r]

There is a solid theory that this Covid 19 started as an accident in the Chinese CDC lab based out of Wuhan. A worker became infected with Covid 19 from a bat (feces or blood or urine). This type of bat is NOT found in the Wet Markets around Wuhan. The Chinese CDC worker then spread the infection to others in Wuhan. This was an accident not a purposeful occurrence by the Chinese. They then covered it up by blaming the Wet Market.

The theory is primarily based on the type of BAT used in the Wuhan CDC lab vs the type of bat sold in the wet market. Some scientists insist that the bat where Covid 19 originated from is NOT sold or found in the Wet Market but is used as the primary BAT in the Wuhan CDC lab.

The virus, Covid 19, likely came from a BAT but again, where was this BAT when it infected the first human in Wuhan? Was it the Wet Market or the Wuhan CDC lab?

From Bats to Human Lungs, the Evolution of a Coronavirus

SARS-CoV-2, which honed its viral genome for thousands of years, behaves like a monstrous mutant hybrid of all the coronaviruses that came before it.

www.newyorker.com

A very nice review of Covid 19

FFS.

The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2 - Nature Medicine

www.nature.com

Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus.

I think we can do a little better than WaPo and right wing conspiracy theories, no?

 

[deleted697535]

Just read the abstract ; it explains the salient points.
I do not think it was intentionally released rather it was an accident. I don’t believe in a cock and bull theory about a virus migrating from bats to pangolins to humans when the Wuhan virology institute has been experimenting with bat viruses and SARS all this time.
It is criminal though that the Chinese government after finding this leak chose not to tell the rest of the world about this so they could prepare for it accordingly.

I like your style man! Keep it up

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

I don't see the point of continually bringing these up. We know everybody from both parties was basically caught with their pants down, and that's goes for both past and present. I don't like either party so it's not going to offend me, but it's been beaten to death at this point. If pretty much everybody screwed up, then maybe nobody screwed up that badly.

 

[deleted59964]

I don't see the point of continually bringing these up. We know everybody from both parties was basically caught with their pants down, and that's goes for both past and present. I don't like either party so it's not going to offend me, but it's been beaten to death at this point. If pretty much everybody screwed up, then maybe nobody screwed up that badly.

Oh no ... lots of people screwed up - do not let them off the hook

 

[deleted171991]

I don't see the point of continually bringing these up. We know everybody from both parties was basically caught with their pants down, and that's goes for both past and present. I don't like either party so it's not going to offend me, but it's been beaten to death at this point. If pretty much everybody screwed up, then maybe nobody screwed up that badly.

I'm sorry, did you say both parties? I must have missed the part about this being a coalition government.

There is exactly one group of people who didn't take this pandemic seriously until the middle of March, and exactly one shameless party that constantly refuses to admit that the former are unfit to govern, and who's been accomplice to 4 years of failures. I have seen banana republics with better leaderships.

They had more than 3 years to fix whatever the Obama government had missed, if only their government weren't full of political appointees, "acting" nobodies and unfilled positions left behind by competent career professionals they fire for being competent and incorruptible.