The ultimate COVID thread

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If I could interrupt the Presidential love/hate/blame bash fest for just a moment and get back on topic ...

One issue getting media attention is our current dependence on overseas supply chains and finished manufactured goods, primarily sourced from China, and how we need to restore those capabilities within the continental US.

That's all well and good, but has the question ever been explored of how/why our domestic manufacturing base magically moved itself overseas?

FOLLOW THE MONEY.

In a nutshell, corporations moved their manufacturing to areas with lowest labor costs --> ability to sell those products at lower cost here coupled with larger profit margins..

Sure, we could (in theory at least) restore those factories, production lines, and lost blue collar General Motors-type jobs back here in the US. But the labor costs of American factory workers are probably 10-20x what folks in Asians sweatshops are getting. And it's widely known that overseas factories and their governments turn a blind eye to environmental concerns associated with manufacturing; as such they don't have to include those regulatory compliance costs in their prices.

Those increased US labor costs and environmental regulatory compliance costs for domestic production will need to added to the price of domestically-produced goods for the company(s) to remain in business with at least a razor-thin profit margin. Is the American public ready to pay $400 for ABCXYZ made domestically, which currently can be found on the shelf for $50 manufactured in SW Asia? Will the stockholders and Wall Street look fondly at these new razor-thin profit margins from companies known for larger margins?
 
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nothing less than an absolute failure of leadership

Yea, I can see that. But on the other hand, is it as big a failure as that time Obama wore a tan suit?
 
Yea, I can see that. But on the other hand, is it as big a failure as that time Obama wore a tan suit?


I know men's fashion in the 1980s was different from present day, but Reagan had suits in every visible color in the electromagnetic spectrum.



Plaid. It's all about the contrasting colors.
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Is that how you read my post? Or, is your TDS getting in the way of understanding the nation didn't prepare well under Obama (8 years) or Trump.
The media also failed in getting out the warning early to people in the USA.

Huh...media inciting panic in Jan but now failed in getting the warnings out early enough?????

 
Which is China's fault. Glad you finally acknowledged reality.
I think you've been watching Fox news for a little too long. All your numerous posts on this site are defending Trump and blaming the state of things on China. The situation we're in now is 100% the fault of our government and their lack of appropriate response and preparation. Period.

"I'm Not Sure Anybody Even Knows What It Is"; "You Can Call It A Germ, You Can Call It A Flu"-Trump 3/27/20.
 
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Which is China's fault. Glad you finally acknowledged reality.

How did we end up with more cases than China? And soon to be more deaths?

They went first. They and several other countries showed us how to contain it. Now our crisis is worse than theirs. We didn’t have to figure anything out on our own. All we needed to do was cheat off them by copying them.
 
How did we end up with more cases than China? And soon to be more deaths?

They went first. They and several other countries showed us how to contain it. Now our crisis is worse than theirs. We didn’t have to figure anything out on our own. All we needed to do was cheat off them by copying them.


We live in a free society. The president can't just quarantine off entire cities or states. Second, we report the actual data not communist tainted data.
Third, people in the USA are free to move about at will. That means those in NYC can be in Florida in just 2 hours.

Yes, our crisis is worse but it is a small price to pay for our freedoms. The elderly have most self-quarantined in my area. They know what Covid 19 likely means to them if they become infected.

Our biggest failure was not lack of ventilators or ICU beds but rather opting not to buy test kits from South Korea in the millions weeks ago. We must begin to test and re-test in huge numbers. Only then will the curve level off.
 
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Yea, I thought it was a COVID thread too, but it didn't seem right to let it just stand when a poster tried to equate a neonazi running over a bunch of people in Charlottesville with liberal kids shouting down loudmouths on college campuses. Then he asked for examples of right-wing violence as if it didn't obviously exist, and I provided it- so take up your thread derailing grievance with him.

And yes, it was perfectly predictable that you were gonna bring up antifa or BLM or whatever right wing talking point that you could google. Never you mind that we still have an actual neonazi working in the WH as we speak.. And never you mind that all the actual data quantitatively shows what the problem is.

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Everything with you guys has gotta be a false equivalency or some kind of whataboutism nowadays. Oh, Trump did something? But what about Obama? Oh, almost every domestic terror incident is committed by a racist right-wing ideologue? But what about the couple fringe incidents that weren't actually condoned by the organizations which have the laudable goals of stopping fascism and addressing police violence in black communities?

Are you able to even once let someone you support just stand on his own merits when he has been (quite justly) criticized?
Wow, I am literally fascinated how you came up with those wild misrepresentations of what was said. And a neonazi in the White House? Man, you are out there on pluto.
 
We live in a free society. The president can't just quarantine off entire cities or states. Second, we report the actual data not communist tainted data.
Third, people in the USA are free to move about at will. That means those in NYC can be in Florida in just 2 hours.

Yes, our crisis is worse but it is a small price to pay for our freedoms. The elderly have most self-quarantined in my area. They know what Covid 19 likely means to them if they become infected.

Our biggest failure was not lack of ventilators or ICU beds but rather opting not to buy test kits from South Korea in the millions weeks ago. We must begin to test and re-test in huge numbers. Only then will the curve level off.
Mass testing will only work if those who are positive effectively quarantine. That means everybody who is positive (even asymptotic) stay home and not leave for ANYTHING. Same for all members of their household. No supermarket runs, no walking the dog, NOTHING. I just don’t see that happening.
FWIW I’d rather be an American with rampant widespread COVID then be a citizen of China.....
 
I think you've been watching Fox news for a little too long. All your numerous posts on this site are defending Trump and blaming the state of things on China. The situation we're in now is 100% the fault of our government and their lack of appropriate response and preparation. Period.

"I'm Not Sure Anybody Even Knows What It Is"; "You Can Call It A Germ, You Can Call It A Flu"-Trump 3/27/20.
Can we at least acknowledge BOTH sides dropped the ball. Are we forgetting the mayor of New York going to the gym and keeping schools open well beyond where even the most uneducated people knew we had a serious public health issue.
 



Don't be so hard on POTUS, yall. Ratings are up up up!


Jake Tapper left out the rest of Fauci’s quote, “I just don’t think we need to make a projection when it is such a moving target we could just as easily be wrong”.
 
We live in a free society. The president can't just quarantine off entire cities or states. Second, we report the actual data not communist tainted data.
Third, people in the USA are free to move about at will. That means those in NYC can be in Florida in just 2 hours.

Yes, our crisis is worse but it is a small price to pay for our freedoms.

we're a democracy too, the people hounded our politicians until we closed our state borders.
 
we're a democracy too, the people hounded our politicians until we closed our state borders.

I fully support the action by local and state politicians to protect their community. In a nation of 300 million people the local response to this virus is as important/more important the the Federal one. WE need the Feds for resources, money, coordination, etc but we need our state Governors to assume control of the borders.

Cuomo threatened to litigate if Trump forcibly closed NY's borders.

 
Though I’m not surprised, I’m shocked people are so forgiving to China on this one. Lucky for them, they have the Anti-Trump media running interference

1. Of course Boris is trying to shift the blame. Every government in the world screwed this up him especially. He ran a bloody race festival that 60k attended as this thing was exploding. He thought herd immunity would cure it! It would be funny if so many ppl didn't die because of it

2. When this is over no one will remember or care how China lied. The world turns on money and sex, always has always will. Dealing with China is how ppl make Money these days.

3. China definitely lied. Prior to this they had millions in fake jails and internment camps. Why would they destroy their economyand world image if only 5k people died? I'd say a lie factor of 40x is about right
 
Jake Tapper left out the rest of Fauci’s quote, “I just don’t think we need to make a projection when it is such a moving target we could just as easily be wrong”.

What in the world does the continuation of Fauci's response have to do with what Trump said? Fauci could've said 0 or 100m people- does that have any relation at all to the president spending any part of his day comparing his news conference ratings about a serious pandemic to the Bachelor?


He's got time for irrelevant tweets as the Gov of Louisiana is saying:

"
In the past couple weeks, Louisiana has requested 12,000 ventilators from various sources and only procured 192, Edwards said. Last week, the governor said he had asked for 5,000 ventilators from the federal stockpile and received zero.

Edwards said the state has not received assurances from the Trump administration that its needs will be met, but he said he continues to press the case and hopes to land ventilators from the federal government. "
 
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You are so hung up on trump. I’m not defending him. If you don’t think that quote out of context is irresponsible I don’t know what to tell you. Blasting numbers out of context is incredibly dangerous and is the only point i make when it comes up repeatedly in these threads.
 
How did we end up with more cases than China? And soon to be more deaths?

They went first. They and several other countries showed us how to contain it. Now our crisis is worse than theirs. We didn’t have to figure anything out on our own. All we needed to do was cheat off them by copying them.
They bought up the world. 2 Billion PPE was imported with 90% purchased by chinese government and 10% donated by foreign government, companies and individuals. This helped tremendously before the manufacturing was mobilized.

I guess this is the benefit to be the first one? It is not cheap either, but I am sure less than 2T $.
 
You are so hung up on trump. I’m not defending him. If you don’t think that quote out of context is irresponsible I don’t know what to tell you. Blasting numbers out of context is incredibly dangerous and is the only point i make when it comes up repeatedly in these threads.

Except when you were finishing the quote you still left out a part where Fauci says he thinks there will be millions of cases. Even using more conservative mortality estimates (which are likely too low if we don't flatten the curve and hospitals get overwhelmed), it doesn't look good for overall mortality numbers

"FAUCI: "You know, Jake, to be honest with you, we don't really have any firm idea... I have never seen a model of the diseases that I have dealt where the worst-case scenario actually came out. They always overshoot. So, when you use numbers like a million, a million-and-a-half, two million, that almost certainly is off the chart. Now, it's not impossible, but very, very unlikely. So, it's difficult to present. I mean, looking at what we're seeing now, I would say between 100,000 and 200,000 cases. But I don't want to be held to that, because it's -- excuse me -- deaths. I mean, we're going to have millions of cases. But I just don't think that we really need to make a projection, when it's such a moving target, that you can so easily be wrong and mislead people."
 
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The point is about Fauci’s reservations to quote numbers and misleading people. The numbers are used to justify extending our current efforts through the end of the month as he just carefully announced on national tv


Tapper used his quote in exactly the manner he wouldn’t have wanted it used.
 
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We live in a free society. The president can't just quarantine off entire cities or states. Second, we report the actual data not communist tainted data.
Third, people in the USA are free to move about at will. That means those in NYC can be in Florida in just 2 hours.

Yes, our crisis is worse but it is a small price to pay for our freedoms. The elderly have most self-quarantined in my area. They know what Covid 19 likely means to them if they become infected.

Our biggest failure was not lack of ventilators or ICU beds but rather opting not to buy test kits from South Korea in the millions weeks ago. We must begin to test and re-test in huge numbers. Only then will the curve level off.

We could have done the testing, tracing, and isolation but we didn’t do anything. We thought we were different or special.
 
The point is about Fauci’s reservations to quote numbers and misleading people. The numbers are used to justify extending our current efforts through the end of the month as he just carefully announced on national tv


Tapper used his quote in exactly the manner he wouldn’t have wanted it used.

Tapper did say could, not definitely will be 100k. Additionally, his show tweeted





I don't think out of context, scary quotes are productive either. But we should all be aware that Fauci just now did not walk back his estimated "if mitigation doesnt go so hot" figure

 
Agreed.

He also spend 5 minutes cautioning how we should use and interpret the data that comes out of models.

Then much to my dismay Trump decided he would use those exact numbers as “evidence” that things weren’t as bad as they could be. SMH. and I like the guy.
 
The violence and rhetoric from the extreme left is real. The hatred against Trump and his supporters is dangerous. Even on SDN one can feel the hatred in many of the posts.

The hatred is real and it's not just from people you label "left wing." There are those of us that were Republican or Independent and think Trump was the worst possible choice for president possible. Those concerns are now becoming quite self evident. It's amazing to me anyone is still defending the guy. Like amazes me to the point I think they should be studied in a lab.
 
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Regarding the stock market: Dropping over 30% in a week or so will pretty much always result in a short term oversold bounce, which lasted a fairly typical 3 days. I expect that is over and market gurus will blame the next rockiness on extending the mitigation through the end of April. That couldn't be any further from the truth as every person with a pulse already knew we wouldn't be getting the go ahead to resume normal life on Easter.
 
Agree 2020 will be a race between least worst choices.
You gotta question the half of the country that hates Trump with every fiber of their being but can only find Rest Home Joe as their best alternative. This is a guy that should be searching out senior living facilities and strongly considering a living will. It's like half the country hates Trump while at the same time trying to throw the election for Trump. Astonishing.
 
Regarding the stock market: Dropping over 30% in a week or so will pretty much always result in a short term oversold bounce, which lasted a fairly typical 3 days. I expect that is over and market gurus will blame the next rockiness on extending the mitigation through the end of April. That couldn't be any further from the truth as every person with a pulse already knew we wouldn't be getting the go ahead to resume normal life on Easter.
You underestimate how stupid people are in this country. I know several MD's who believed Trump's Easter nonsense.
 
-----------------------
'The mayor and city manager here, Bonnie Svrcek, felt relieved two weeks ago, when Mr. Falwell assured them that he fully intended to comply with Virginia’s public health directives and close the school to virtually all students, most of whom were scattering for spring break. Then he changed his mind.

“We think it’s irresponsible for so many universities to just say ‘closed, you can’t come back,’ push the problem off on other communities and sit there in their ivory towers,” Mr. Falwell said on Wednesday on a radio show hosted by Todd Starnes, a far-right conspiracy theorist.

“We’re conservative, we’re Christian, and therefore we’re being attacked,” he said.

....
Jeff Brittain, a Liberty parent, wrote on Twitter: “I’m as right wing as they get, bud. But as a parent of three of your students, I think this is crazy, irresponsible and seems like a money grab.” Mr. Falwell replied, calling him a “dummy.”

All of this has left even his critics scratching their heads.

“It’s honestly hard to figure out what his motives are,” Mr. Best, the student who wrote the Facebook post, said in an interview. “If he had purely political motives, he’s being way more conservative than even Trump is being right now. Trump is at least allowing doctors to say their piece. Jerry is not. It kind of shocks me at this point.”
"
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1,900 LU students came back last week after spring break. About 800 left now about 11 are reported to have symptoms consistent with C19. I mean, who could have ever seen this coming?
 
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When he speaks off script, you can see how he's measuring every word or, as my wife says, you can see the wheels turning in his head. The man is simply intelligent, and it's a pleasure to listen to, and seems to be a decent human being, like his wife.

God, I miss having a president who could speak and sound presidential
 
Dow set for opening drop of more than 300 points as investors brace for another volatile week


We will be going lower until the caseload peaks in 2-3 weeks. I think we re-test the lows of 2200 or even break through that level a bit lower. The next time we get down to 2200 is a significant buying opportunity and I have a dozen plus orders ready to trigger at that level. Unlike some on CNBC I think the recovery will be a U-shaped one with the market coming back a bit slower than most predict. That said, i still predict an S and P level of 3,000 by April 2021.
 
  • Should market conditions deteriorate, the Federal Reserve could venture into the stock market, several market analysts and economists said.
  • Such a move likely would come in the form of a big ETF that tracks major market indexes.
  • Congressional approval would be needed to take such a step.
  • The Fed already has launched an historically aggressive use of its various powers.


 
The "fear" gauge/VIX is still extremely high. This means there will be huge volatility in the market with 2-5% swings many days for the next few weeks:

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Economists at the biggest U.S. banks are now expecting the country’s growth domestic product (GDP) to contract sharply in the second-quarter, but there are a wide range of outcomes as they struggle to make estimates from so little data. JP Morgan expects a 14% drop, Goldman expects a 24% drop and Morgan Stanley expects a 30% drop.

 
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You gotta question the half of the country that hates Trump with every fiber of their being but can only find Rest Home Joe as their best alternative. This is a guy that should be searching out senior living facilities and strongly considering a living will. It's like half the country hates Trump while at the same time trying to throw the election for Trump. Astonishing.
I know that's what Faux News is telling you to think but I would be cautious about throwing that line of rhetoric around when Trump sound like he can't string a sentence together. I listened to a Trump interview with CNN 20 years ago and he sounded like he wasn't an idiot.
 
I know that's what Faux News is telling you to think but I would be cautious about throwing that line of rhetoric around when Trump sound like he can't string a sentence together. I listened to a Trump interview with CNN 20 years ago and he sounded like he wasn't an idiot.

He's definitely lost a few points from his MMSE since then. His mannerisms remain remarkably consistent, but the delivery these days is poor and his vocabulary appears to have shrunk.
 
“The Fed basically threw everything but the kitchen sink at the credit market and, at this point, de facto nationalized the banking system,” Schlossberg said in the same “Trading Nation” interview. “There’s almost no way you could lose money as a bank now because the Fed will buy anything and everything that is on your balance sheet, and they will also give you as much credit as you want in the repo market.”

Add in the fact that banks are largely in “better shape” than they were during the 2007-2009 financial crisis, and Schlossberg said the KBE could even outperform the S&P 500 over the next 12 months.

“It’s certainly going to have a decline in transactions because of the Main Street economy really slowing down,” he acknowledged. “It’s certainly going to have some regulatory pressures. It’s even going to have less fee income because there’ll be less transactions. But all of that aside, I think still on a relative basis, it’s going to be OK.”

“More importantly, once the virus kind of lifts ... and the economy goes back to normal functioning, the Fed will still be there,” Schlossberg said. “The Fed will still be supporting the banking system. And I think that’s going to be a tremendous, tremendous tailwind for the sector, and therefore, the KBE should be a relatively strong buy on this basis.”
 
Brother/sister, if this doesn't constitute an honest-to-God, actual crisis, then just let me know if there's room under the rock you're living under, because I want a piece of that action. Also, what would constitute a real crisis in your mind? All them Mexicans coming to rape and murder and steal our jobs? That's totally not a made-up crisis. Definitely not.
The point I was attempting to make is that it is the same individuals using a crisis to spend what feels like the majority of their day bashing the POTUS on SDN. I fully agree that this is a crisis but what is bothersome is the same people using it to post article after article undercutting our President. All I suggesting is that in 2-3 months your post won’t age well again in regards to how POTUS and his team has handled this crisis. Just like if you where to go back and read the threads about the election, Russia, and the impeachment.
 
“Unlimited QE & emergency liquidity programs should see the Fed balance sheet double in size over 2020,” Mark Cabana, rates strategist at Bank of America Global Research, said in a note.




The Fed had originally indicated it was going to add $700 billion to its bond portfolio — $500 billion in Treasurys and $200 billion in mortgage-backed securities. However, it switched earlier this week to an open-ended program in response to tumult in financial markets.

Wall Street now anticipates the balance sheet could hit $10 trillion this year as the Fed affirms its whatever--it-takes commitment to softening the coronavirus blow. Fed Chairman Jerome Powell told NBC’s “TODAY” show Thursday that the central bank will “aggressively and forthrightly” continue its efforts and will not “run out of ammunition.”

That means the balance sheet likely will hit $7 trillion by June, or about a $2.5 trillion gain from its previous peak, according to Citigroup. Ultimately, Wall Street forecasts are increasingly looking for a $10 trillion balance sheet that would signal a $4.5 trillion expansion, greater than the $3.7 trillion growth during and after the financial crisis.

Critics have worried about the possibility of inflation resulting from all that extra cash in the system, though it hasn’t been a problem since the asset purchases started in late 2008.

“Markets will have learned well from the 2008 experience that this increase in balance sheet size is not inflationary in any near-term sense,” Citigroup economist Andrew Hollenhorst said in a note. “In fact, the sharp drop in demand and prices for certain services and energy implies a significantly lower trajectory for both core and headline inflation.”

gonna make the rich really rich. huge transfer of wealth. corruption is unreal
 
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