The ultimate COVID thread

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pgg said:
The deniers will just say those are regular flu deaths, or that most of the "COVID" deaths are really just the usual cancer deaths and shark attacks that the corrupt deep state operatives at the morgue are falsely categorizing as coronavirus deaths. The objective is either to sabotage an idiot Trump's re-election prospects, or aid a genius Trump's diabolical plan to usher in a dictatorship.

They're impervious to data, even when the data is a body count. It's think it's the most amazing display of cognitive dissonance I've seen in my life. It's worse than the 9/11 truthers.
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Why are there multiple physicians on front lines saying exactly that, that COVID diagnosis is being pushed, while other comorbidities are the underlying culprit
Link

Just bc a narrative doesn't conform with our reality, doesn't mean we shouldn't objectively assess if the evidence suggests otherwise (that goes for 9/11 truth movement as well)
 
mostwanted said:
Why are there multiple physicians on front lines saying exactly that, that COVID diagnosis is being pushed, while other comorbidities are the underlying culprit
Link

Just bc a narrative doesn't conform with our reality, doesn't mean we shouldn't objectively assess if the evidence suggests otherwise (that goes for 9/11 truth movement as well)
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Any idea why he’s wearing embroidered scrubs at what appears to be some sort of news conference?

Also, what he’s saying isn’t groundbreaking and it also doesnt make SARS-COV2 irrelevant to the process. What he’s saying is analogous to saying someone didn’t die from a MI but all of the years of eating fatty foods and not exercising that led to it. D’uh! Thanks genius. But that doesn’t make coronary artery disease irrelevant to the US.
 
dannyboy1 said:
I’m not a denier. People die from COVID. mostly old and sick but occasionally not.
$hit happens. This lockdown of the economy is beyond foolish and unsustainable. It will bring financial ruin for millions, erase entire industries, quite possibly lead to the utter collapse of real estate. The virus occurred in nature. The real disaster that will come from it is entirely man made....
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any industry that gets "erased" was going to be erased without this happening, it just sped up the process. As for real estate, it cannot lose value long term because the planet's population is still exploding and we are not creating new land.

This is temporary.
 
Mman said:
any industry that gets "erased" was going to be erased without this happening, it just sped up the process. As for real estate, it cannot lose value long term because the planet's population is still exploding and we are not creating new land.

This is temporary.
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Yeah. Kind of like CRNA independence was gonna happen but this sped up the process. That works for you?
 
dannyboy1 said:
I’m not a denier. People die from COVID. mostly old and sick but occasionally not.
$hit happens. This lockdown of the economy is beyond foolish and unsustainable. It will bring financial ruin for millions, erase entire industries, quite possibly lead to the utter collapse of real estate. The virus occurred in nature. The real disaster that will come from it is entirely man made....
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In NYC specifically over 20,000 people ages 18-64 were hospitalized due to covid. I’m not sure how many of those people were in the ICU. But anecdotally speaking there were/are plenty of people under the age of 65 receiving ICU level of care due to covid.

So it’s not only about deaths. I think as physicians we all know about the long road to recovery after being in the ICU. It seems as though covid also has a significant morbidity for many people as well....dialysis, clotting leading to strokes, etc.

To just ignore the consequences of this novel virus by not having a strategic plan to decrease the number of cases and to "reopen" without things like masks (which seem to be effective), social distancing policies, sanitizing policies, etc seems very ignorant.

It seems as though many other countries with a strong public health response have started to figure it out, theoretically speaking there’s no reason the US can’t. Instead we have leaders who don’t wear masks, physicians saying it’s a hoax and people protesting in the street.
 
AMEHigh said:
In NYC specifically over 20,000 people ages 18-64 were hospitalized due to covid. I’m not sure how many of those people were in the ICU. But anecdotally speaking there were/are plenty of people under the age of 65 receiving ICU level of care due to covid.

So it’s not only about deaths. I think as physicians we all know about the long road to recovery after being in the ICU. It seems as though covid also has a significant morbidity for many people as well....dialysis, clotting leading to strokes, etc.

To just ignore the consequences of this novel virus by not having a strategic plan to decrease the number of cases and to "reopen" without things like masks (which seem to be effective), social distancing policies, sanitizing policies, etc seems very ignorant.

It seems as though many other countries with a strong public health response have started to figure it out, theoretically speaking there’s no reason the US can’t. Instead we have leaders who don’t wear masks, physicians saying it’s a hoax and people protesting in the street.
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Our country is being run at the top mostly by AMATEURS, people with absolutely no experience and qualifications except for sycophancy. The madmen are running the asylum. Imagine how our hospitals would look if non-physicians dictated to doctors what to treat their patients with. Oh, wait, that's what happened with HCQ.

And that's what banana republics look like, by the way. We are just a few years away from becoming a lowlife-run pseudo-democracy like Hungary or Poland. Great role models, so appropriate for the oldest continuous democracy in the world!
 
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Also lets not forget who has been disproportionately affected by covid...Black people, Brown people and Native Americans due to decades of systemic oppression. The vast majority of essential front care workers...nurses, doctors, aids, nursing home workers, grocery store workers, etc are women. So who is more likely to be on the front lines when people rush to get their nails done or to a fast food restaurant??? The vast majority of these deniers seem to be men and white, hmmm. Lets stick to science and facts.
Where's that article about women-led countries doing relatively ok so far?
 
AMEHigh said:
Also lets not forget who has been disproportionately affected by covid...Black people, Brown people and Native Americans due to decades of systemic oppression. The vast majority of essential front care workers...nurses, doctors, aids, nursing home workers, grocery store workers, etc are women. So who is more likely to be on the front lines when people rush to get their nails done or to a fast food restaurant??? The vast majority of these deniers seem to be men and white, hmmm. Lets stick to science and facts.
Where's that article about women-led countries doing relatively ok so far?
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All those black Italians and Chinese? I’m a front line worker who intubates people. Does that mean I’m oppressed. Nope. I make a choice to go to work and expose myself to COVID because I think the benefit of a paycheck outweighs the minuscule risk of me dying from COVID. All other workers are welcome to make their own risk/benefit analysis and act accordingly.....
 
dannyboy1 said:
All those black Italians and Chinese? I’m a front line worker who intubates people. Does that mean I’m oppressed. Nope. I make a choice to go to work and expose myself to COVID because I think the benefit of a paycheck outweighs the minuscule risk of me dying from COVID. All other workers are welcome to make their own risk/benefit analysis and act accordingly.....
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You are a doctor. Do you really think you have the same option of quitting like the housekeepers and the nursing assistants do?
If you quit today, you would be ok and would unlikely end up homeless or looking for free food after two months.

You think the janitor making less than $20 an hour with a family to feed has the luxury of quitting because they are afraid of dying?

You seem clueless to your privilege in life as a high earning professional.
 
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FFP said:
I haven't seen it, but it wouldn't be surprising. Women-led countries tend to be more open-minded and well-educated, in general. People who truly see men and women as equals tend not to get their education and worldview from holy books and clergy.
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This is obviously a "fluff" piece, but found one...

www.forbes.com

What Do Countries With The Best Coronavirus Responses Have In Common? Women Leaders

From Iceland to Taiwan and from Germany to New Zealand, women are stepping up to show the world how to manage a messy patch for our human family.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
 
chocomorsel said:
You are a doctor. Do you really think you have the same option of quitting like the housekeepers and the nursing assistants do?
If you quit today, you would be ok and would unlikely end up homeless or looking for free food after two months.

You think the janitor making less than $20 an hour with a family to feed has the luxury of quitting because they are afraid of dying?

You seem clueless to your privilege in life as a high earning professional.
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Yes, I understand that many people are “wage slaves”. They really have no option but to go to work. How do you want society to handle this problem? You can’t just force employers to pay people who are not working. Society WILL collapse. If you keep printing money it will become worthless and you will become Venezuela. Would you like to live there or here with COVID? I’m not happy about COVID. it sucks, but it’s here. Life needs to go on.
 
dannyboy1 said:
Yes, I understand that many people are “wage slaves”. They really have no option but to go to work. How do you want society to handle this problem? You can’t just force employers to pay people who are not working. Society WILL collapse. If you keep printing money it will become worthless and you will become Venezuela. Would you like to live there or here with COVID? I’m not happy about COVID. it sucks, but it’s here. Life needs to go on.
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Like I said above there are countries that have handled this in a decent manner. So to act like there is literally nothing we can do to help keep people healthy and safe is very ignorant.

Obviously you can't replicate things done everywhere else done here because of the history of this country, but using data, science and facts from experts is helpful to have a coordinated federal response.

This is a worldwide pandemic, so it's not like the US is the only one whose economy is suffering, while everyone is carrying on like everything is normal.

In South Korea for example from friends that lived there there was a strong federal response with the leaders using a strong public health response and facts to lead, while things were not officially "locked down" it was HIGHLY encouraged. The leaders lead by example...you know by wearing masks and leaning on scientific experts to help. The simple fact that our president and vice president who is the head of our response won't bother to wear a mask at a hospital speaks volumes.
There is now a small outbreak in South Korea linked to a night club and now people are back to not going out because the government responded by again tracing and testing and emphasizing the importance of only going out for essential services.

We're going to see surges at times until there is a treatment or vaccine...and again the morbidity of this virus seems to be something that we all want to avoid. If everyone is sick and disabled that is also not good for the economy.

So again, NO ONE is saying that EVERYTHING needs to be shut down forever, but a strong federal response with a plan lead by science and facts would go a long way in helping to keep people safe (especially those most vulnerable) while strategically allowing the economy to work somewhat. It is not an all or nothing choice.
 
dannyboy1 said:
Yeah. Kind of like CRNA independence was gonna happen but this sped up the process. That works for you?
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not sure a few temporary orders has changed much of anything
 
dannyboy1 said:
Yes, I understand that many people are “wage slaves”. They really have no option but to go to work. How do you want society to handle this problem? You can’t just force employers to pay people who are not working. Society WILL collapse. If you keep printing money it will become worthless and you will become Venezuela. Would you like to live there or here with COVID? I’m not happy about COVID. it sucks, but it’s here. Life needs to go on.
Click to expand...

Actually this is a great article that I recommend you and others read.
Here's a short quote:

"The coronavirus epidemic has rendered the racial contract visible in multiple ways. Once the disproportionate impact of the epidemic was revealed to the American political and financial elite, many began to regard the rising death toll less as a national emergency than as an inconvenience. Temporary measures meant to prevent the spread of the disease by restricting movement, mandating the wearing of masks, or barring large social gatherings have become the foulest tyranny. The lives of workers at the front lines of the pandemic—such as meatpackers, transportation workers, and grocery clerks—have been deemed so worthless that legislators want to immunize their employers from liability even as they force them to work under unsafe conditions. In East New York, police assault black residents for violating social-distancing rules; in Lower Manhattan, they dole out masks and smiles to white pedestrians."

www.theatlantic.com

The Coronavirus Was an Emergency Until Trump Found Out Who Was Dying

The pandemic has exposed the bitter terms of our racial contract, which deems certain lives of greater value than others.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
 
chocomorsel said:
You are a doctor. Do you really think you have the same option of quitting like the housekeepers and the nursing assistants do?
If you quit today, you would be ok and would unlikely end up homeless or looking for free food after two months.

You think the janitor making less than $20 an hour with a family to feed has the luxury of quitting because they are afraid of dying?

You seem clueless to your privilege in life as a high earning professional.
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Yes I can. And I still show up to work. So does the rest of my practice. And it’s not because of some burning desire to help humanity. It’s for the $$. If we really thought it was that dangerous we wouldn’t be there. Maybe the rest of society should also have a right to earn a living if they so choose.
 
dannyboy1 said:
Yes I can. And I still show up to work. So does the rest of my practice. And it’s not because of some burning desire to help humanity. It’s for the $$. If we really thought it was that dangerous we wouldn’t be there. Maybe the rest of society should also have a right to earn a living if they so choose.
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You are making no sense. You sure you meant to respond to me? Cuz you already did. And now you make no sense.
Obviously I was saying that you have the option to stay at home a lot more than the janitors and CNAs. You don’t need the money as much as a poor person.
 
AMEHigh said:
Actually this is a great article that I recommend you and others read.
Here's a short quote:

"The coronavirus epidemic has rendered the racial contract visible in multiple ways. Once the disproportionate impact of the epidemic was revealed to the American political and financial elite, many began to regard the rising death toll less as a national emergency than as an inconvenience. Temporary measures meant to prevent the spread of the disease by restricting movement, mandating the wearing of masks, or barring large social gatherings have become the foulest tyranny. The lives of workers at the front lines of the pandemic—such as meatpackers, transportation workers, and grocery clerks—have been deemed so worthless that legislators want to immunize their employers from liability even as they force them to work under unsafe conditions. In East New York, police assault black residents for violating social-distancing rules; in Lower Manhattan, they dole out masks and smiles to white pedestrians."

www.theatlantic.com

The Coronavirus Was an Emergency Until Trump Found Out Who Was Dying

The pandemic has exposed the bitter terms of our racial contract, which deems certain lives of greater value than others.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
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Wow. Just Wow. I have never read a more biased piece of left wing trash then that article. The writer has an agenda and uses everything going on to "prove" racism where none exists in terms of Covid 19.

The black jogger was murdered on that afternoon in Georgia. But, the white father and son have been charged with that crime. The justice system while slow did work and now these "gentlemen" face a long jail sentence.

What does that have to do with the Wuhan Virus? Nothing. Covid 19 affects poor people of all colors. It doesn't discriminate in terms of race. But, if you are OBESE with DM or other co-morbidities along with a low socioeconomic status then the probability increases you get infected. Poor white people need to work as well. They are the majority of the poor in many areas. They need those jobs to feed their families.

If Black and Brown people want to reduce their risk from Covid 19 then the place to start is with a diet. This statement applies to Obese white and Asians as well.

The social contract in the USA has NEVER been stronger than it is today.
 
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CC90AB73-AF6C-4472-8256-C0E8A350ACC3.jpeg
 
If not for the video, that probably would have been categorized as a defensive gun use, like millions of other defensive gun uses in the country. When legal experts analyzed them, the majority of defensive gun uses were actually unlawful assaults.

www.hsph.harvard.edu

Harvard Injury Control Research Center | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

The Center aims to reduce the societal burden of injury and violence through surveillance, research, intervention, evaluation, outreach, and training.
www.hsph.harvard.edu www.hsph.harvard.edu
 
Arch Guillotti said:
What is wrong with you!?!
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Yes, ugh, so upsetting.
Thank you for saying something.
So disheartening when physicians have such thought processes, but not surprising based on what I've seen and heard during med school, residency and being an attending. It's not a surprise that we have poorer health outcomes like worse maternal mortality even when accounting for things like income and education based on statements like the one above.

I was going to respond, only because maybe people reading will learn something. But first I think I need to cool down, so maybe I'll respond thoughtfully tomorrow.

The affects of covid are obviously multifactorial and it's so ignorant to ignore how social structures have made outcomes worse for certain groups of people.
 
Arch Guillotti said:
What is wrong with you!?!
Click to expand...
AMEHigh said:
Yes, ugh, so upsetting.
Thank you for saying something.
So disheartening when physicians have such thought processes, but not surprising based on what I've seen and heard during med school, residency and being an attending. It's not a surprise that we have poorer health outcomes like worse maternal mortality even when accounting for things like income and education based on statements like the one above.

I was going to respond, only because maybe people reading will learn something. But first I think I need to cool down, so maybe I'll respond thoughtfully tomorrow.

The affects of covid are obviously multifactorial and it's so ignorant to ignore how social structures have made outcomes worse for certain groups of people.
Click to expand...

while i may not agree with his statement, i do want to say that it is so hard to help solve these types of problems because of verbal blockage due to political correctness or sensitivity. its like obesity and how we cant say 'negative' things anymore without being called shaming.

and it's a huge problem.

step 1 is admitting the possibly that not all race/sex are the same, in every shape or form. we wont know unless we truly study it. but i dont see this ever changing in this country without someone saying its racist/sexist and shutting the whole thing down. no one will fund it and no one will publish the results. its taboo
 
anbuitachi said:
while i may not agree with his statement, i do want to say that it is so hard to help solve these types of problems because of verbal blockage due to political correctness or sensitivity. its like obesity and how we cant say 'negative' things anymore without being called shaming.

and it's a huge problem.

step 1 is admitting the possibly that not all race/sex are the same, in every shape or form. we wont know unless we truly study it. but i dont see this ever changing in this country without someone saying its racist/sexist and shutting the whole thing down. no one will fund it and no one will publish the results. its taboo
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It’s not just about political correctness.
The qestion now becomes, why do Black and Brown people tend to eat poorer diets than Caucasian people?
And is simply telling them to change their diet going to solve the problem?
 
chocomorsel said:
It’s not just about political correctness.
The qestion now becomes, why do Black and Brown people tend to eat poorer diets than Caucasian people?
And is simply telling them to change their diet going to solve the problem?
Click to expand...

well no i dont think anyone thinks that is the solution. otherwise the problem would be solved. you can scientifically come up with solutions that may work, but still fail because a lot of it depends on many factors/variables.

The solution to obese person losing weight is to eat less. which is achievable technically for every obese person. but many times it doesnt work bc the food is there and the motivation isnt. and the problem then shifts to how to motivate people to do it.

kind of similar to treating HTN with meds. we have great meds today. but a lot of people dont take it. cant work if dont take it. question is do you think of that as a separate question or part of same

some areas are very poor in the world but people arent obese bc there is NO FOOD or not enough. we have poor areas in the US but cheap processed food so instead of not eating they eat garbage food and good amounts of it. however i dont think the US would ever accept 'eating 1-2 meals a day' as an answer =\. but for many people in poor places, eating less garbage food and being hungry sometimes may actually help. just my thoughts.

anyway, its off topic, so i'll just stop here. wasnt my intention to get into discussion about it
 
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anbuitachi said:
well no i dont think anyone thinks that is the solution. otherwise the problem would be solved. you can scientifically come up with solutions that may work, but still fail because a lot of it depends on many factors/variables.

The solution to obese person losing weight is to eat less. which is achievable technically for every obese person. but many times it doesnt work bc the food is there and the motivation isnt. and the problem then shifts to how to motivate people to do it.

kind of similar to treating HTN with meds. we have great meds today. but a lot of people dont take it. cant work if dont take it. question is do you think of that as a separate question or part of same

some areas are very poor in the world but people arent obese bc there is NO FOOD or not enough. we have poor areas in the US but cheap processed food so instead of not eating they eat garbage food and good amounts of it. however i dont think the US would ever accept 'eating 1-2 meals a day' as an answer =\. but for many people in poor places, eating less garbage food and being hungry sometimes may actually help. just my thoughts.

anyway, its off topic, so i'll just stop here. wasnt my intention to get into discussion about it
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We are on the same page. The way @BLADEMDA said it, sounded very simplistic and unrealistic. And I think that is why he received the responses he did.
Not because it was politically incorrect per say.
 
AMEHigh said:
Yes, ugh, so upsetting.
Thank you for saying something.
So disheartening when physicians have such thought processes, but not surprising based on what I've seen and heard during med school, residency and being an attending. It's not a surprise that we have poorer health outcomes like worse maternal mortality even when accounting for things like income and education based on statements like the one above.

I was going to respond, only because maybe people reading will learn something. But first I think I need to cool down, so maybe I'll respond thoughtfully tomorrow.

The affects of covid are obviously multifactorial and it's so ignorant to ignore how social structures have made outcomes worse for certain groups of people.
Click to expand...
A few thoughts, if I may.

1. Covid-19 affects obese, diabetic, hypertensive and male patients more severely.
2. Blacks are also more affected, even when corrected for co-existing diseases. Genetics do play an enormous role in our lives, regardless what the PC *****s would want us to believe. Science doesn't vote democrat. We are NOT all the same. Actually, the best predictor of a person's age at death are his/her parents age at death.
3. Obesity is multifactorial, and it's way more complicated than calories in, calories out. Remember "skinny fat"? For one things, the hormonal milieu plays an incredible role (this is the reason some people never get fat, despite eating high amounts of food and living a sedentary lifestyle, while others have trouble shedding even 5-10 pounds). In 2020, it's disgraceful for a physician to not know this.
 
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FFP said:
www.independent.co.uk

US death toll could be double official figure, expert warns as thousands avoid seeking medical help over coronavirus fears

Exclusive: The message that came out to public initially was ‘don’t go to the hospitals – that’s where the Covid patients go’, doctor says as new figures suggest 40 per cent drop in reported heart attacks alone
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
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People have been saying this for weeks. In our hospital, a major heart center, we’ve seen a 90%+ drop in heart patients. Stroke team is seeing similar declines. The article also touches on cancer treatment, but leaves out dropping vaccination rates, which is going to cause another public health issue itself.
 
anbuitachi said:
while i may not agree with his statement, i do want to say that it is so hard to help solve these types of problems because of verbal blockage due to political correctness or sensitivity. its like obesity and how we cant say 'negative' things anymore without being called shaming.

and it's a huge problem.

step 1 is admitting the possibly that not all race/sex are the same, in every shape or form. we wont know unless we truly study it. but i dont see this ever changing in this country without someone saying its racist/sexist and shutting the whole thing down. no one will fund it and no one will publish the results. its taboo
Click to expand...

I never said that he was racist.
It’s just highly disappointing and upsetting that a PHYSICIAN thinks that to solve the problem of obesity for Black and Brown people is to eat less.

No mention of the very long list of structural inequities and oppression that have lead to many people having poorer health outcomes.

There is plenty of research out there in regards how doctor’s treat certain groups of people. Actually the first step in improving things is actually recognizing how one might be contributing to the problem and understanding how our structures and systems affect patient health.
 
FFP said:
A few thoughts, if I may.

1. Covid-19 affects obese, diabetic, hypertensive and male patients more severely.
2. Blacks are also more affected, even when corrected for co-existing diseases. Genetics do play an enormous role in our lives, regardless what the PC *****s would want us to believe. Science doesn't vote democrat. We are NOT all the same. Actually, the best predictor of a person's age at death are his/her parents age at death.
3. Obesity is multifactorial, and it's way more complicated than calories in, calories out. Remember "skinny fat"? For one things, the hormonal milieu plays an incredible role (this is the reason some people never get fat, despite eating high amounts of food and living a sedentary lifestyle, while others have trouble shedding even 5-10 pounds). In 2020, it's disgraceful for a physician to not know this.
4. Another proof that it doesn't take a genius to be good at anesthesiology. Monkey see, monkey do.
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Yes I certainly agree with you.
I certainly wasn’t implying that obesity, DM, etc don’t make covid outcomes worse.

My problem is when people, especially physicians, completely ignore structural systems and oppression in this country and how that affects health outcomes.

Yes I obviously believe in science and genetics. There is also a ton of genetic variability within Black people. There can be more genetic variability within groups of Black people vs a Black and white person depending on what area of the world you’re studying. So it’s not just that Black people are all destined to have high cholesterol because of their genes. So that’s my point about race being a social construct.

Yep obesity is definitely multifacorial. In addition to hormonal affects; from government corn subsidies so high fructose corn syrup is in everything to wages being soooo stagnant for many many years that people are working longer for less money and goods are more expensive. It certainly isn’t all about calories in vs out.

I don’t expect anyone to be an expert on this, I certainly am not, but I do still hope that a physician can be a decent person and understand these complicated issues. And people wonder why many people of color would prefer their physician to also be a person of color? Prime example above.
 
Arch Guillotti said:
What is wrong with you!?!
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He may be losing his marbles. We have all seen his posts lately. Very concerning.
Or he maybe completely ignorant to the socioeconomic problems of many of black and brown people.
Whatever the case, I have now lost all respect.
Especially when it looks like he didn’t mention that it took two months for the“good old boys” to get arrested after public outcry, marches and the video. That’s just normal operating procedure when two White men hunt down a black man minding his business. And are not arrested because they were defending themselves.
Yeah, OK.
 
"The striking racial/ethnic disparities reported for COVID-19 infection, testing, and disease burden are a clear reminder that failure to protect the most vulnerable members of society not only harms them but also increases the risk of spread of the virus, with devastating health and economic consequences for all. COVID-19 disparities are not the fault of those who are experiencing them, but rather reflect social policies and systems that create health disparities in good times and inflate them in a crisis. The US must develop a new kind of “herd immunity,” whereby resistance to the spread of poor health in the population occurs when a sufficiently high proportion of individuals, across all racial, ethnic, and social class groups, are protected from and thus “immune” to negative social determinants."

jamanetwork.com

Health Equity—A New Kind of “Herd Immunity”

Three articles recently published in JAMA provide insight into the large racial/ethnic differences associated with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) and highlight the need for, and potential opportunity to, redouble efforts in the US to develop strategies that would enable society to slow and...
jamanetwork.com jamanetwork.com
 
anbuitachi said:
step 1 is admitting the possibly that not all race/sex are the same, in every shape or form. we wont know unless we truly study it. but i dont see this ever changing in this country without someone saying its racist/sexist and shutting the whole thing down. no one will fund it and no one will publish the results. its taboo
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Forget it dude, ain't happening. Just read this thread the past dozen or so posts (that's all I could handle). Supposedly some of the higher intelligent beings in society can't look at anything objectively and discuss with an open mind. It's all agenda and narrative, and we know who controls media, education, Hollywood,... and message boards.

Lebron James can say, ignorant as a bag of Doritos, "We're literally hunted everyday (by white people)" and he's seen as some kind of social justice warrior hero, but if I were to say "We're literally hunted everyday (by black people)," while still very ignorant but less ignorant statistically, I would be unable to keep my employment. Let that sink in for a while to see what you are up against.
 
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Ezekiel2517 said:
If not for the video, that probably would have been categorized as a defensive gun use
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I have bad news for you, because of the video they may also walk. Unlike 95% of people, I have no dog in this fight. Try sitting back and let evidence be presented. Haven't we learned this yet?

IF he was out for a little jog, and IF these 2 country dudes thought, "Hey, a black guy... go grab the guns," then lock them up and throw away the key.

But let's hold off on playing internet doctor lawyer. IF he had previously burglared in that neighborhood and IF based on that history it's determined he's casing the new house and IF that's a felony and IF Georgia law then allows them to citizen arrest, then I could see charging at the son causing a huge problem for getting a conviction.

Notice the IFs. I'm not a lawyer and I don't know those answers, and neither does anyone else on here so let's not definitively speculate. I don't care which of the above scenarios is correct, as long as the truth comes out. Unlike the majority I am not emotionally tied to any particular scenario because they all have a terrible ending.
 
Ezekiel2517 said:
What were they doing before the video came out?
Click to expand...
Sweating bullets I imagine. They were not cleared. Because of multiple conflicts of interest, and then covid delaying a grand jury, there have been delays. My personal feeling is I wish 2 things hadn't happened. Even if they had a legal right to perform a citizens arrest (nobody knows that answer yet) I wish the McMichaels left that for law enforcement on what doesn't look like a major offense, and secondly I wish Arbery hadn't charged at a man holding a loaded shotgun. But those 2 things did happen and I hate to see all of what follows next regardless of outcome.

Since technically covid did delay the grand juror I guess this falls under the covid discussion, right?.......
 
Ezekiel2517 said:
What were they doing before the video came out?
Click to expand...
The leaked security camera video shows Arbery walking along a street, stopping, looking around, then going into the garage of an unattended house under construction. Three minutes later a person on the other side of the street walks outside. Two minutes later, Arbery sprints away down the street. About 1 1/2 minutes later, a police car drives by.

Whatever he did or didn't do or intend to do in that house before the neighbor called the police and scared him off certainly wasn't worthy of the death penalty, but he wasn't "just jogging".

When I was about 12, my friends and I would trespass in houses under construction in our neighborhood, because it was fun and cool. We had to work at dodging the security guard. Of course, I was a kid. Fortunately no one chased me with a shotgun.
 
pgg said:
The leaked security camera video shows Arbery walking along a street, stopping, looking around, then going into the garage of an unattended house under construction. Three minutes later a person on the other side of the street walks outside. Two minutes later, Arbery sprints away down the street. About 1 1/2 minutes later, a police car drives by.

Whatever he did or didn't do or intend to do in that house before the neighbor called the police and scared him off certainly wasn't worthy of the death penalty, but he wasn't "just jogging".

When I was about 12, my friends and I would trespass in houses under construction in our neighborhood, because it was fun and cool. We had to work at dodging the security guard. Of course, I was a kid. Fortunately no one chased me with a shotgun.
Click to expand...
My question was in response to the post: "I have bad news for you, because of the video they may also walk", which implies that the video may help the 2 shooters not get convicted of any crime. So I asked, "What were they doing before the video came out?" Arbery died in February. As far as I know, these 2 men have been otherwise living freely since then. They were not charged w any crime. It was only after the video was released just days ago that they were charged and arrested.
 
Ezekiel2517 said:
My question was in response to the post: "I have bad news for you, because of the video they may also walk", which implies that the video may help the 2 shooters not get convicted of any crime. So I asked, "What were they doing before the video came out?" Arbery died in February. As far as I know, these 2 men have been otherwise living freely since then. They were not charged w any crime. It was only after the video was released just days ago that they were charged and arrested.
Click to expand...
Sometimes the police or prosecutors act differently due to political pressure - that doesn't mean their initial response was incorrect or corrupt. For all we know, they knew two months ago they had no chance at convicting anyone. The video that got the public's attention was not the entirety of the evidence available to the authorities, but it was the entirety of the evidence available to the public. Now that the defense attorney leaked the other video and the "innocent jogger" line has been shown to be a lie, we the public have seen a little more of what the authorities knew all along: a burglar was out casing properties and two idiots confronted him.

There'll be a trial but those idiots are going to walk. It's George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin all over again, except this time there's video, and it wasn't just a kid out to buy Skittles.
 
Wuhan to test everyone after new cases emerge. Wow. That’s an interesting strategy. I wonder if they’ll share the actual results if it actually happens.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com
 
I have a few friends working in the Navajo Nation.
They're really struggling especially since many residents don't have running water and it's so rural.
I hope that the Native people are able to somehow get the care they need.

Doctors Without Borders Dispatches Team to Navajo Nation
www.cbsnews.com

Doctors Without Borders dispatches team to the Navajo Nation

The Navajo Nation has more coronavirus cases per capita than any state in America.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com
 
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