The ultimate COVID thread

[Lawpy]

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I did, it doesn't parse. Did you mean "Twitter posts are a good way to get people to actually not vote for Biden in the upcoming election." ? Because without my italics phrase added what you wrote doesn't make any sense.

But regardless, you're wrong on multiple fronts. Twitter is pretty disconnected from "the real world" so it's unlikely a tweet someone reads is going to have much effect on their voting choice. Secondly, short, poignant, and/or hilarious twitter jabs are pretty much the polar opposite of long, boring multiple-page reddit rants (or similarly, my discursive forums posts 🙂)

Yep i meant that. I think Biden is a better candidate and will probably win but it's hard to find myself being aligned with the angry Trump critics. And I think social media, including Twitter, is actually more closely connected to the real world thanks to Trump tweets and increasing social activism.

Also there are Reddit political memes and tweets mocking Trump and after seeing thousands of them posted regularly, it's getting really old.

At least SDN political discussions are more worthwhile.

 

[Lawpy]

Interesting. Dexamethasone found to have large all cause mortality benefit. Decreased mortality by 1/3 in intubated patients. RCT. Paper not released yet but based on this group’s reputation and prior trial descriptions, this is legit and significant.

I'm curious to see how effective anticoagulants are

 

[vector2]

Yep i meant that. I think Biden is a better candidate and will probably win but it's hard to find myself being aligned with the angry Trump critics. And I think social media, including Twitter, is actually more closely connected to the real world thanks to Trump tweets and increasing social activism.

Also there are Reddit political memes and tweets mocking Trump and after seeing thousands of them posted regularly, it's getting really old.

At least SDN political discussions are more worthwhile.

Liberals have to be reminded regularly that the far left twitter echo chamber is not the real world and that Americans' views are much more diverse than the 20 Twitter/FB/Instagram accounts they follow. Not to mention, twitter usage falls off a cliff when you look at the demographics of the age groups that actually have high turnouts to the polls. So yea, even in the age of Trump (ask some Trump supporters- most don't have twitter, read trump's twitter, or think he should be tweeting in the first place), social media is not the defining factor in voting choice. You're in one of the smallest categories of voters possibly imaginable if "I am thinking of voting for Biden.....but twitter trump critics [not the 23539823 godawful things about trump or his administration] are what will stop me from doing so" is the angle from which you're approaching 2020.

 

[vector2]

 

[Lawpy]

Liberals have to be reminded regularly that the far left twitter echo chamber is not the real world and that Americans' views are much more diverse than the 20 Twitter/FB/Instagram accounts they follow. Not to mention, twitter usage falls off a cliff when you look at the demographics of the age groups that actually have high turnouts to the polls. So yea, even in the age of Trump (ask some Trump supporters- most don't have twitter, read trump's twitter, or think he should be tweeting in the first place), social media is not the defining factor in voting choice. You're in one of the smallest categories of voters possibly imaginable if "I am thinking of voting for Biden.....but twitter trump critics [not the 23539823 godawful things about trump or his administration] are what will stop me from doing so" is the angle from which you're approaching 2020.

I'm stuck in the age group that heavily uses social media and yet don't vote much in elections so it's what i regularly end up seeing 🙁

Also news media tend to quote social media posts when reporting events.

 

[Ezekiel2517]

It's amazing that the data for steroids in classic ARDS (which according to the pathology reports I've read, COVID lungs have much the same microscopic findings) is pretty equivocal or possibly leans toward benefit, but yet this trial demonstrated such an outstanding result. Would really like to see the actual paper first...

Agree, but based on what this is showing and prior evidence, I would not hesitate to start using this protocol immediately. A nice thread here too:

 

[chocomorsel]

Interesting. Dexamethasone found to have large all cause mortality benefit. Decreased mortality by 1/3 in intubated patients. RCT. Paper not released yet but based on this group’s reputation and prior trial descriptions, this is legit and significant.

Read it on MSN and couldn’t find the paper.

With the severe inflammation these people have, I never understood why steroids were a bad idea. Their markers were through free roof and I was all for steroids even in the beginning.

That famous Italian doc was for it and he made a lot of sense and when I took care of these folks and discussed it with the pharmacist it didn’t make sense to avoid steroids. We were all experimenting anyway.

 

[Twiggidy]

Were any of you around in nyc during the stop and frisk times (i mean they still do happen, but on a less regular basis)? Are any of you black and brown?

Yes and yes

 

[deleted126335]

If a White Male had done the same things as Mr. Brooks I am pretty certain he would be dead as well. A police officer isn't going to tolerate DUI, resisting arrest, stealing a police taser, running away and then firing that taser at an officer. While we all agree the situation could have been handled differently; my hope is that better training along with simulations will help solve these issues. Police need to be held accountable but so does Mr. Brooks. I do not approve of deadly force in this situation but IMHO, the shooting of Mr. Brooks was not murder or manslaughter.

Without simulation training, national standards and a certification exam these explosive situations will keep happening over and over. Just like we need to keep our "cool" during a code in the O.R. police need to practice de-escalation whenever a non violent crime is being committed. They should have plenty of simulations dealing with non violent crimes involving unarmed people.Mr. Brooks should be paying a fine and doing community service hours; instead, he is no longer alive.

Even if that is true, and I have my doubts, that is a problem. If this police officer's action was consistent with his training that is a huge problem.
The police officer in the following video was fired. He was acquitted of any criminal charges. The experts on police training who testified said that his actions were consistent with his training. I find that horrifying.

 

[chocomorsel]

Even if that is true, and I have my doubts, that is a problem. If this police officer's action was consistent with his training that is a huge problem.
The police officer in the following video was fired. He was acquitted of any criminal charges. The experts on police training who testified said that his actions were consistent with his training. I find that horrifying.

Agree with you 100%. There in lies the problem. And some people cannot be convinced otherwise because they believe that their training teaches them to do this, which makes it therefore OK and justifiable homicide.
That is one of the videos of White men being killed by cops that always comes to my mind. Poor guy. No way we should accept this.
They are trained that anytime someone reaches down, they could be reaching for a gun and therefor you better get them before they get you. It's disturbing. Their police training is always gonna cover for them when they needlessly kill a person.

 

[chocomorsel]

Yes and yes

Did you like being frisked? 🙂

But on a serious note, do you think that if the police were trained differently in this country, and we were used to them using less deadly force, people like you and others who look at this as a justifiable homicide would look at this as an unnecessary loss of life?

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, you are biased because you have a relative who's a police officer and you are looking at things through their point of view?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Did you like being frisked? 🙂

But on a serious note, do you think that if the police were trained differently in this country, and we were used to them using less deadly force, people like you and others who look at this as a justifiable homicide would look at this as an unnecessary loss of life?

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, you are biased because you have a relative who's a police officer and you are looking at things through their point of view?

You can believe it's both a justified shooting and an unnecessary loss of life.

Both parties could have done better and this could have been avoided.

 

[Twiggidy]

Did you like being frisked? 🙂

Depends on who's doing the frisking 😎

"Get all up in there officer. I have all day"

But on a serious note, do you think that if the police were trained differently in this country, and we were used to them using less deadly force, people like you and others who look at this as a justifiable homicide would look at this as an unnecessary loss of life?

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, you are biased because you have a relative who's a police officer and you are looking at things through their point of view?

What I really think is that: 1) police in this country do have a very difficult job, 2) don't recruit the smartest people, and 3) aren't trained by the smartest people. You only need a high school diploma to be a police. They are literally giving 21 year old high school grads guns and after a few months saying, "Go patrol the dangerous area of town".

I don't think I'm biased in as much as I'm realistic. I'm a black man in America and I've definitely had my interactions with the police. I've never been frisked, I've never been in handcuffs, and I've never had a gun in my face or at my back. Am I just lucky? Maybe that police relative taught me a thing or two about how to handle police interaction.

This conversation is really deeper than an SDN post but the bullet point is:

If you shoot in the direction of the police expect for them to return fire. There's really no argument against that and it's honestly why this situation as a news story has died.

The big reality is the police wouldn't need to rely so much on guns as a method of force if we didn't have so many guns floating around in this country, but that's a different discussion and I don't want the 2A people getting all excited on a Tuesday.

 

[Twiggidy]

You can believe it's both a justified shooting and an unnecessary loss of life.

Both parties could have done better and this could have been avoided.

Yes. It's honestly one of the few situations where two things can be true at the same time.

 

[pgg]

A key problem with all police in the United States is that they are trained to fear risk and to respond in an aggressive manner to shut down any possible perceived risk. They're operating from the point of view that they shouldn't have to accept any risk.

They've been militarized and I think almost everyone recognizes that as a problem. But when they picked up the armored vehicles, machine guns, plate carriers, grew the tacticool beards / clipped a tacticool haircut, and acquired the other bits of flair and costume accessories to make them "combatants", they didn't pick up any of the military's discipline when it came to accepting risk as part of the job.

If a 20 year old corporal in Afghanistan or Iraq can be trained to accept a degree of risk and not open fire on every low-riding vehicle that moves in his direction, and not open fire on any sketchy person whose hands aren't visible who might have a gun, and not use lethal force on any person who's simply uncooperative or belligerent - why can't cops exercise similar restraint?

They can - except they've been conditioned to believe that they shouldn't have to.

They've been told their job is really really dangerous and getting home safe is their #1 top priority. The Supreme Court has explicitly told them that they have no duty to protect. That corporal in the desert knows that getting home safe ISN'T his #1 top priority - it's achieving the mission objectives, within the rules of engagement, even if he gets hurt or killed. That is the mindset of a warrior who knows his first duty isn't to himself. Sadly it seems a lot of police want the costume and the honor but not the commitment to others. "Serve and Protect" should mean everyone, even the criminal being arrested.

 

[vector2]

Even if that is true, and I have my doubts, that is a problem. If this police officer's action was consistent with his training that is a huge problem.
The police officer in the following video was fired. He was acquitted of any criminal charges. The experts on police training who testified said that his actions were consistent with his training. I find that horrifying.

Just to clarify for anyone following along because you didn’t say it explicitly and because the video thankfully doesn’t show it, that sick in the head cop straight up murdered him by shooting him 5 times as he continued to lay defenseless on the floor.

 

[MirrorTodd]

A key problem with all police in the United States is that they are trained to fear risk and to respond in an aggressive manner to shut down any possible perceived risk. They're operating from the point of view that they shouldn't have to accept any risk.

They've been militarized and I think almost everyone recognizes that as a problem. But when they picked up the armored vehicles, machine guns, plate carriers, grew the tacticool beards / clipped a tacticool haircut, and acquired the other bits of flair and costume accessories to make them "combatants", they didn't pick up any of the military's discipline when it came to accepting risk as part of the job.

If a 20 year old corporal in Afghanistan or Iraq can be trained to accept a degree of risk and not open fire on every low-riding vehicle that moves in his direction, and not open fire on any sketchy person whose hands aren't visible who might have a gun, and not use lethal force on any person who's simply uncooperative or belligerent - why can't cops exercise similar restraint?

They can - except they've been conditioned to believe that they shouldn't have to.

They've been told their job is really really dangerous and getting home safe is their #1 top priority. The Supreme Court has explicitly told them that they have no duty to protect. That corporal in the desert knows that getting home safe ISN'T his #1 top priority - it's achieving the mission objectives, within the rules of engagement, even if he gets hurt or killed. That is the mindset of a warrior who knows his first duty isn't to himself. Sadly it seems a lot of police want the costume and the honor but not the commitment to others. "Serve and Protect" should mean everyone, even the criminal being arrested.

Man, you said that a lot better than I could.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

A key problem with all police in the United States is that they are trained to fear risk and to respond in an aggressive manner to shut down any possible perceived risk. They're operating from the point of view that they shouldn't have to accept any risk.

They've been militarized and I think almost everyone recognizes that as a problem. But when they picked up the armored vehicles, machine guns, plate carriers, grew the tacticool beards / clipped a tacticool haircut, and acquired the other bits of flair and costume accessories to make them "combatants", they didn't pick up any of the military's discipline when it came to accepting risk as part of the job.

If a 20 year old corporal in Afghanistan or Iraq can be trained to accept a degree of risk and not open fire on every low-riding vehicle that moves in his direction, and not open fire on any sketchy person whose hands aren't visible who might have a gun, and not use lethal force on any person who's simply uncooperative or belligerent - why can't cops exercise similar restraint?

They can - except they've been conditioned to believe that they shouldn't have to.

They've been told their job is really really dangerous and getting home safe is their #1 top priority. The Supreme Court has explicitly told them that they have no duty to protect. That corporal in the desert knows that getting home safe ISN'T his #1 top priority - it's achieving the mission objectives, within the rules of engagement, even if he gets hurt or killed. That is the mindset of a warrior who knows his first duty isn't to himself. Sadly it seems a lot of police want the costume and the honor but not the commitment to others. "Serve and Protect" should mean everyone, even the criminal being arrested.

That raises even more questions about police training then given this:

Officers With Military Experience More Likely to Shoot, Study Says

Dallas police officers who were veterans fired their weapons more than those who never served in the armed forces.

www.themarshallproject.org

 

[Southpaw]

I think it’s funny we all give CRNAs a hard time about anesthesia because we are anesthesiologists. Medical doctors. We play this ‘lives are at stake for god’s sake!’ card repeatedly, and even though we bust on them we can’t deny they have graduate level training and serve an important role.

And yet all across America our police force is high school grads getting trained by high school grads, carrying serious weapons, always armed, acting with impunity who leave zero room for negotiation. Are you dudes in the ‘meh, yeah they were justified because one of them fools almost got tased!’ not watching these videos? Are you not watching the news? They shot this man in the back! They kneeled on this mans neck til he was dead! They’re pointing ARs at people in hotel hallways shouting directions that even I couldn’t follow while I’m pissing my pants in fear.

Are you not watching the News Now SC videos posted by @vector2? Cops ignorant of the law still holding their weapons and threatening arrest?? Because a black man walks around videoing public property?

Last time - we pay their salaries. We entrust them to be stewards of the law. They are clearly abusing the power handed to them and not being held accountable for their many abuses of power. It’s gone too far for too long. We have to change this system.

 

[chocomorsel]

A key problem with all police in the United States is that they are trained to fear risk and to respond in an aggressive manner to shut down any possible perceived risk. They're operating from the point of view that they shouldn't have to accept any risk.

They've been militarized and I think almost everyone recognizes that as a problem. But when they picked up the armored vehicles, machine guns, plate carriers, grew the tacticool beards / clipped a tacticool haircut, and acquired the other bits of flair and costume accessories to make them "combatants", they didn't pick up any of the military's discipline when it came to accepting risk as part of the job.

If a 20 year old corporal in Afghanistan or Iraq can be trained to accept a degree of risk and not open fire on every low-riding vehicle that moves in his direction, and not open fire on any sketchy person whose hands aren't visible who might have a gun, and not use lethal force on any person who's simply uncooperative or belligerent - why can't cops exercise similar restraint?

They can - except they've been conditioned to believe that they shouldn't have to.

They've been told their job is really really dangerous and getting home safe is their #1 top priority. The Supreme Court has explicitly told them that they have no duty to protect. That corporal in the desert knows that getting home safe ISN'T his #1 top priority - it's achieving the mission objectives, within the rules of engagement, even if he gets hurt or killed. That is the mindset of a warrior who knows his first duty isn't to himself. Sadly it seems a lot of police want the costume and the honor but not the commitment to others. "Serve and Protect" should mean everyone, even the criminal being arrested.

Can I get an Amen!!!! So absolutely true.

 

[Southpaw]

Arizona police officer who fatally shot sobbing man collects $31K a year pension

The shooting of Daniel Shaver by Mesa, Arizona, Officer Philip Brailsford last year was caught on bodycam in a case that drew national scrutiny over the use of deadly force.

www.nbcnews.com

Nope. System’s not broken. Perfectly ok. Keep calm and carry on.

 

[vector2]

I think it’s funny we all give CRNAs a hard time about anesthesia because we are anesthesiologists. Medical doctors. We play this ‘lives are at stake for god’s sake!’ card repeatedly, and even though we bust on them we can’t deny they have graduate level training and serve an important role.

And yet all across America our police force is high school grads getting trained by high school grads, carrying serious weapons, always armed, acting with impunity who leave zero room for negotiation. Are you dudes in the ‘meh, yeah they were justified because one of them fools almost got tased!’ not watching these videos? Are you not watching the news? They shot this man in the back! They kneeled on this mans neck til he was dead! They’re pointing ARs at people in hotel hallways shouting directions that even I couldn’t follow while I’m pissing my pants in fear.

Are you not watching the News Now SC videos posted by @vector2? Cops ignorant of the law still holding their weapons and threatening arrest?? Because a black man walks around videoing public property?

Last time - we pay their salaries. We entrust them to be stewards of the law. They are clearly abusing the power handed to them and not being held accountable for their many abuses of power. It’s gone too far for too long. We have to change this system.

I really can’t get enough of these

 

[Ezekiel2517]

Forgot to include this earlier, the 35 page published protocol from the Recovery Trial posted above: https://www.recoverytrial.net/files/recovery-protocol-v6-0-2020-05-14.pdf

 

[Twiggidy]

I think it’s funny we all give CRNAs a hard time about anesthesia because we are anesthesiologists. Medical doctors. We play this ‘lives are at stake for god’s sake!’ card repeatedly, and even though we bust on them we can’t deny they have graduate level training and serve an important role.

And yet all across America our police force is high school grads getting trained by high school grads, carrying serious weapons, always armed, acting with impunity who leave zero room for negotiation. Are you dudes in the ‘meh, yeah they were justified because one of them fools almost got tased!’ not watching these videos? Are you not watching the news? They shot this man in the back! They kneeled on this mans neck til he was dead! They’re pointing ARs at people in hotel hallways shouting directions that even I couldn’t follow while I’m pissing my pants in fear.

Are you not watching the News Now SC videos posted by @vector2? Cops ignorant of the law still holding their weapons and threatening arrest?? Because a black man walks around videoing public property?

Last time - we pay their salaries. We entrust them to be stewards of the law. They are clearly abusing the power handed to them and not being held accountable for their many abuses of power. It’s gone too far for too long. We have to change this system.

I don’t think a single person since this has merged to a “police reform topic” has said the system is ok. No one is denying reform is needed.

 

[deleted87051]

I really can’t get enough of these

This guy takes trolling the cops to the next level and gets paid for it. He knows the law better than the cop.

A Colorado Man Wins $175,000 After His 'Fuck Bad Cops' Sign Prompts a Tasing

Body cam footage shows the officer getting chewed out by his supervisor shortly afterward.

reason.com

 

[Monty Python]

I don’t think a single person since this has merged to a “police reform topic” has said the system is ok. No one is denying reform is needed.

Fully agree ... which leads to the million dollar question. Who is going to pay for this? Taxpayers. Will they support it?

Better qualified police candidates will expect appropriate compensation in line with the higher/tougher hiring standards.

Police annual evaluations, pay raises, etc., are based on productivity and crime reduction metrics diametrically opposite to reform. This can be fixed but will be quite an undertaking.

District attorneys will resist, as their successful prosecutions will decrease due to reduced arrests. This, in turn, reduces revenue from penalties and fines paid to the court. Judges will not be pleased. It also reduces DAs’ “I’m tough on crime“ bragging rights when they run for elected office.

Sheriffs/wardens/for-profit proprietors of privately-owned contracted prison facilities (yes, they exist) will be displeased due to reduced prisoners, ie, reduced reimbursements. They have effective legislative lobbyists. The legislature makes the laws which the police simply enforce.

Lots of moving parts here, and as usual follow the money. Police, in a broad sense, are small fish here in the bigger pond of vested interests.

 

[vector2]

Fully agree ... which leads to the million dollar question. Who is going to pay for this? Taxpayers. Will they support it?

Better qualified police candidates will expect appropriate compensation in line with the higher/tougher hiring standards.

Police annual evaluations, pay raises, etc., are based on productivity and crime reduction metrics diametrically opposite to reform. This can be fixed but will be quite an undertaking.

District attorneys will resist, as their successful prosecutions will decrease due to reduced arrests. This, in turn, reduces revenue from penalties and fines paid to the court. Judges will not be pleased. It also reduces DAs’ “I’m tough on crime“ bragging rights when they run for elected office.

Sheriffs/wardens/for-profit proprietors of privately-owned contracted prison facilities (yes, they exist) will be displeased due to reduced prisoners, ie, reduced reimbursements. They have effective legislative lobbyists. The legislature makes the laws which the police simply enforce.

Lots of moving parts here, and as usual follow the money. Police, in a broad sense, are small fish here in the bigger pond.

Yes....the indiscriminate violence from the police, the corruptness of police unions, the provision of qualified immunity, DA’s with their “bump the stats/more arrests are good” blinders on, the prison-industrial complex that incarcerates more people per capita than almost anywhere in the world, the politician and lobbyist revolving door that keeps all this bullsht running.......people are sick of ALL of it....hence the widespread protests.

Now will the taxpayer foot the bill for increased training? Maybe. But we’ll cross that bridge after instituting all the reforms and restrictions on the police which can be done for free.

 

[doctalaughs]

I don’t think a single person since this has merged to a “police reform topic” has said the system is ok. No one is denying reform is needed.

That’s the thing. Even though most can agree reform is needed, if we are completely and utterly divided on what is a “permissible” use of lethal force, then which reforms get enacted? And when I say “permissible” I mean that in a loose sense of “I’m a police officer making a snap judgement on my safety - do I end up in jail and/or fired after the bodycam is reviewed.”

Since many people think using lethal force against someone stealing/deploying your own taser against you is criminal—-

please list which situations would NOT potentially lead to a cop having potential jail time with lethal force?

1. Gun and only a gun?
2. Baseball bat? Crowbar?
3. Knife walking slowly towards you
4. Knife running at you
5. Running away but waving around a crossbow wildly and refusing to obey commands?
6. 2 unarmed big guys advancing on a single cop threatening to beat him to the ground?

After we can agree on details like that, we could create simulations, extensive training and detailed guidelines for cops (who by nature of the job need to deal with violent/stupid people no matter what we do — and I’m sure don’t WANT to end up charged with crimes).

Also curious what percentage of US police do people think fall in these categories currently:
1. Sociopathic power-hungry killers would sit on your neck to slowly kill you if they could?
2. Racist and somewhat power-abusive in smaller ways?
3. Generally well-meaning but trigger-happy based on bad training?
4. Truly there to protect and serve, not perfect in all stressful/violent situations but good judgement overall?

 

[Ezekiel2517]

For those that think this is bc of testing, look at the % positive rate. It's going thru the freaking roof.

 

[vector2]

just lol that @doctalaughs keeps trying to paint these guys in the most reasonable light


The Atlanta police officer who shot Rayshard Brooks was reprimanded for using a firearm in 2017

...
Police records show that Rolfe received a written reprimand in October 2017 for use-of-force involving a firearm. It was the only use-of-force complaint on his disciplinary history.

He did, however, receive a written reprimand in September 2018 and an oral admonishment in 2014, both over vehicle accidents. The document doesn't provide more details about each incident.

In all, Rolfe's disciplinary file includes 12 incidents, including four citizen complaints as well as a firearm discharge in 2015 that did not have a conclusive action taken.

Nine investigations are marked "exonerated" or "no action taken."
...

The Atlanta police officer who shot Rayshard Brooks was reprimanded for using a firearm in 2017

Ex-officer Garrett Rolfe had been with Atlanta police for nearly seven years. He faced 12 investigations and was exonerated in nine of them.

www.insider.com

Ex-cop who shot, killed Rayshard Brooks was previously reprimanded for use of force

Garrett Rolfe, the Atlanta officer who was fired after shooting and killing Rayshard Brooks in a Wendy’s parking lot, received a written reprimand in 2017 for use of force involving a firearm. In his seven years with the department, it was his only use-of-force complaint before Friday’s shooting.

www.ajc.com

They’ve teargassed peaceful protesters in 90+ cities now and yet their thin blue line persecution complex knows no bounds.

 

[deleted162650]

For those that think this is bc of testing, look at the % positive rate. It's going thru the freaking roof.

Anybody here practicing/living in AZ? Would love to hear a 1st hand “boots on the ground” account of what things are actually looking like over there.

 

[doctalaughs]

just lol that @doctalaughs keeps trying to paint these guys in the most reasonable light

lol - ok guess there is nothing useful left in this part of the thread (guess there never was). Despite us basically agreeing on the broad strokes (police need major reform) we aren’t done until everyone agrees all cops are violent psychos bent on shooting anything that moves and we’d be better off with optional laws/arrests, backed only by asking nicely with sugar on top.

 

[narcotics999]

For those that think this is bc of testing, look at the % positive rate. It's going thru the freaking roof.

My question is: why Los Angeles is so ****ty? It started lockdown very early and there is mandatory face covering policy.

 

[Ezekiel2517]

Anybody here practicing/living in AZ? Would love to hear a 1st hand “boots on the ground” account of what things are actually looking like over there.

I'm not in AZ but a buddy of mine from residency practices there now. There are already hospitals there that have no beds.
Btw, TX isn't looking too pretty either.

 

[vector2]

lol - ok guess there is nothing useful left in this part of the thread (guess there never was). Despite us basically agreeing on the broad strokes (police need major reform) we aren’t done until everyone agrees all cops are violent psychos bent on shooting anything that moves and we’d be better off with optional laws/arrests, backed only by asking nicely with sugar on top.

Your list of "gun? knife??? crossbow??? atomic bomb???? two big scary guys bearing down??? when can poor little cop defend himself????" shows how seriously you think police need reform. As if anyone was arguing that they can't use a firearm when getting a threatened by someone coming towards them with a weapon that's conventionally on a lethal as opposed to non-lethal list

 

[chocomorsel]

lol - ok guess there is nothing useful left in this part of the thread (guess there never was). Despite us basically agreeing on the broad strokes (police need major reform) we aren’t done until everyone agrees all cops are violent psychos bent on shooting anything that moves and we’d be better off with optional laws/arrests, backed only by asking nicely with sugar on top.

Yet another one of those all or none arguments.
We are never going to agree that ALL cops are a bunch of violent psychos because no one on here believes that nor has said that!!!

But yeah, they should offer the option of having to put non violent offenders in the back of a secured cruiser without the necessity of handcuffs.

When they push your head and face onto the pavement they are doing their job but not acknowledging their aggression. When you fight back because of the use of too much force, then you become the aggressor and they are “justified” in shooting you. Come on. The double standard is there and staring at us in the face.
This honestly reminds me of a Malcom X speech that rings so true of how black men are treated by cops.

 

[vector2]

Let's see how many of these Moscow Mitch will actually get done. And unfortunately, even if he does push a lot of these through, it will all be a drop in the bucket if we do not completely overhaul America's failed drug policy.

 

[Monty Python]

An activist undergoes simulation use-of-force scenarios. Interesting outcomes.

 

[TJRock]

I'm not in AZ but a buddy of mine from residency practices there now. There are already hospitals there that have no beds.
Btw, TX isn't looking too pretty either.

There is a lot of talk about approaching the precipice of disaster in Houston, but the Texas Medical Center, which updates its Covid data on-line daily, doesn't seem to be panicking.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Updates - Texas Medical Center

Thanks to your hard work, dedication, and sacrifices, we were able to collect and analyze critical data to track the virus’s impact on the greater Houston community. Your unwavering commitment to keeping our communities safe and healthy has truly made a difference in the fight against COVID-19...

www.tmc.edu

 

[doctalaughs]

When you fight back because of the use of too much force, then you become the aggressor and they are “justified” in shooting you. Come on. The double standard is there and staring at us in the face.
This honestly reminds me of a Malcom X speech that rings so true of how black men are treated by cops.

So now you are saying being cuffed by police is “the use of too much force” and fighting back with punches, wrestling, stealing/shooting a taser is a reasonable defense and not “becoming the aggressor”.

oooookkk. The funny thing is I agree with all the reforms in the graph above (except defunding the police). I just think the left media makes every one of these cases out to be outrageously one-sided, when that’s not the case.

 

[chocomorsel]

So now you are saying being cuffed by police is “the use of too much force” and fighting back with punches, wrestling, stealing/shooting a taser is a reasonable defense and not “becoming the aggressor”.

oooookkk. The funny thing is I agree with all the reforms in the graph above (except defunding the police). I just think the left media makes every one of these cases out to be outrageously one-sided, when that’s not the case.

Nah man, I never said that. Yet another one of those instances where someone says something that is clear as day and you try to twist it around to prove your point.
I specifically stated "When they push your head and face onto the pavement they are doing their job but not acknowledging their aggression. When you fight back because of the use of too much force, then you become the aggressor."
AND
"they should offer the option of having to put non violent offenders in the back of a secured cruiser without the necessity of handcuffs'

You clearly need to go back and re take reading comprehension because you seem to have slept through that class. Having discussions with people like you is pointless because you guys pick apart a statement and twist it up to try to prove a point that was never even made.

 

[chocomorsel]

There is a lot of talk about approaching the precipice of disaster in Houston, but the Texas Medical Center, which updates its Covid data on-line daily, doesn't seem to be panicking.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Updates - Texas Medical Center

Thanks to your hard work, dedication, and sacrifices, we were able to collect and analyze critical data to track the virus’s impact on the greater Houston community. Your unwavering commitment to keeping our communities safe and healthy has truly made a difference in the fight against COVID-19...

www.tmc.edu

More work for me!!! Unfortunately when I was at the supermarket the other day, I was in the minority wearing a mask. A large minority. I would venture to say that about 20% of people were wearing masks, and that is being generous.

 

[Monty Python]

I think chokeholds are extraordinarily dangerous. Yesterday President Trump spoke out against them and took some sort of executive action. Yet France just reversed their stance which I think is risky. My point is police reform isn’t just a USA challenge; it extends to other enlightened first-world countries as well.

France reverses chokehold ban after police pushback

France reversed a recent ban on chokeholds after police officers took to the streets to protest the new measure, arguing it would put their lives at risk.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Monty Python]

This thread (barely four months old) already has over 4,600 posts and 144,000 views. What's the SDN record for an individual thread in terms of posts? I've been here since 2005 and can't recall anything similar.

 

[Twiggidy]

Nah man, I never said that. Yet another one of those instances where someone says something that is clear as day and you try to twist it around to prove your point.
I specifically stated "When they push your head and face onto the pavement they are doing their job but not acknowledging their aggression. When you fight back because of the use of too much force, then you become the aggressor."
AND
"they should offer the option of having to put non violent offenders in the back of a secured cruiser without the necessity of handcuffs'

You clearly need to go back and re take reading comprehension because you seem to have slept through that class. Having discussions with people like you is pointless because you guys pick apart a statement and twist it up to try to prove a point that was never even made.

Whether you want to believe this or not because you seem very solid in you stance, the handcuffs serve more than just as a restraint. You have to realize when someone is placed under arrest you have no idea what that person is going decide to do to you as the officer or even themselves. A non-violent offender can certainly become violent so why take a chance.

 

[deleted697127]

This thread (barely four months old) already has over 4,600 posts and 144,000 views. What's the SDN record for an individual thread in terms of posts? I've been here since 2005 and can't recall anything similar.

Ha well. This is like the 4th iteration of what turned into large political posts in the past few months. A few others were cancelled by the thought police. (They turned pretty nasty. I can only imagine the last straw.)

 

[Lawpy]

This was mentioned before, but can we just end the war on drugs already?

 

[Twiggidy]

I'm willing to be a little money that when a police officer encounters a non-violent offender that 8-9 times out of ten if the offender just said, "You know what officer. I've been drinking and I'm sorry. Do you think maybe you can call a taxi or give me a ride home?" things will end better for the offender. I'm willing to take a guess that a few officers would skip the paper work and just help the guy out. Sure there are police that want their stats and some that are just plain hateful. The problem is that this isn't what we see go down.

I was jokingly telling me colleagues the other day, but I was also half serious, if the police ask more than "license and registration" from me, I just go ahead and turn around and put my hands up, because I'm trying to live. "Am I being charged with a crime?" Is so, f-it let's go to jail if not, then "May I have my citation so I can go home?" If it goes beyond any of that then I've had the unfortunate luck of coming across an a-hole possible racist police. I have my right to remain silent and keep my fingers cross I don't end up in a ditch.

The point is that if you come across an a-hole/racist cop, no amount of non-violence is going to help you.

 

[Twiggidy]

This was mentioned before, but can we just end the war on drugs already?

It's slowly coming to an end because more and more of the combatants have lighter and lighter skin. Seriously, in the 80s and 90s when it was mostly in the poor black communities, it was "heroin". In the 2010s when it showed up in midwest white communities, it became "the opioid epidemic". To add a little comedic flare, it used to be called "weed" and "marijuana" but now it's called "cannabis".

This is all a bit tongue in cheek, but you catch my drift.

 

[AMEHigh]

This was mentioned before, but can we just end the war on drugs already?

Yeah this.
Portugal has a good model.

Whoever asked about who is going to pay for it?
Well I certainly don’t think we need as many police as we do now, so decreasing the payroll will help.
We need to rethink the role of the police.
Do they really need to be driving around punching in license plate numbers and looking for expired car registrations? Do they need to be walking around frisking people randomly? Do they need to go to calls for a mentally ill person sleeping on a bench? No, they don’t.
There are a lot of things that can be done to defund and reform what policing looks like in this country.