Trump just got murdered IMO.
Started by RustedFox
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Paying an extra 4.8% on income over $400k has really been that hard on you? What a delicate flower you must be.
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da8s0859q
I vote we all ignore this post and continue on topic among peers.
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He has a lot to lose beyond the election. He has a brand to protect and a reputation to repair. His best case scenario at the end of this election has him back where he started: a reality star and a rich man. The worst case scenario involves him too toxic for TV or investors, buried under lawsuits from former female employees alleging discrimination, and maybe even facing criminal charges as zealous DAs from both ends of the political spectrum trip over themselves to file charges against him for everything from the borderline illegal activities of his foundation to accusations of sexual assault.
He'll probably take your advice, but he shouldn't. If he throws anymore gas on this dumpster fire he's going to burn down his own empire, rather than just the Republican party.
I honestly cannot understand why any woman would vote for Trump despite HRC's major flaws. What kind of guys have you been hanging around to think most men talk like that?
At the very best, he's proven himself to be a slimy, disgusting, arrogant human being. At worst, he's admitted that he assaults women regularly. If that doesn't change your mind about him I doubt anything would. Even if he was recorded saying he gropes 14-year-olds I think many Trump supporters wouldn't bat an eye.
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Your comment demonstrates why your side and my side can never come to an agreement. We have completely different concerns and worries.
What extra percent would concern you? 5%, 10%, 20%? At what point would you say "enough"? I'd actually like a real numerical answer because I'm curious.
You have one single concern and worry, and have already stated you are basing your vote on the assumption of 5% income tax increase and 5% capital gains tax increase under Clinton. Not sure how to "come to an agreement" with you when I can't find any data supporting a planned 5% income tax increase across all brackets (which wouldn't get through Congress even if purposed). As White Coat Investor and others have mentioned money is important but so is not having the leader of your country be (at best) an unprepared, egotistical misogynist.
I don't think Veers in actuality has only one concern, but rather this is the one point he comes back to when Trump is otherwise indefensible. In reality, however, even this point is weak, because of what you mention.
For me I normally would be angry by a 5%tax hike. I almost always vote Republican and financial conservatism drives 60-70% of my vote.
However, Trump is so vile to me I would vote for literally anyone to avoid him. For example, I would vote for Bernie Sanders over Trump even though he's a socialist and would probably cost me 25% of my salary (cause he's not a bad human being). Clinton is also not a great human in my eyes but Trump is garbage.
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Over magnifying his faults and imperfections over Clinton's careless, self-servicing political behaviors, and her actual lack of competence, along w/ her inability to genuinely have a modicum of compassion for people or this country, seems to be the way the narrative is running against Trump. Way to do MSM-think! Even the far left KNOWS the MSM bias is unbelievable, and that if it were applied against them, we'd, once again, see their hypocrisy of outrage.
I predict the skew will be great between the moderators, the feed into Hillary's ear, and the left-wing ringers that the left has thrown into the Town Hall. It should be quite the crapstorm. What they don't understand is that the skew will look so overwhelming, many people will see right through it.
It will be what it will be. I am working hard to resist the notion that "We the people" are totally screwed, b/c what is life without hope?
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You're not going to get a flat number. Taxes will always be part of an equation that also balances a desire for a society that's just, stable, safe, peaceful, and free.
When the wealthiest 1% say that all that matters to them is taxes, what they're really saying is that they think they've bought their way out of all of those other issues. They don't need a society that's just because they own the justice system. They don't need a society that's safe because they live in gated communities. They aren't worried about a society that's stable because their financial reserves are too diverse to depend on a single country. And of course peace doesn't matter because wars are fought by the poor, and strictly overseas
Which is understandable, in a selfish way, except that when the plutocracy thinks that way it leads to revolution. If they're lucky, and live in a democracy, its the soft kind of revolution where the left comes to power and makes the wealthy somewhat more middle class. If they're unlucky they get the more traditional kind of revolution. Even from a strictly selfish perspective there are good reasons for the rich to want to keep this country at least somewhat livable for the bottom 80%
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I already pay about 30% of my gross income. That's enough. Half of the population pays nothing or gets a net tax benefit. I don't feel it's appropriate for me, and others on this forum to continue subsidizing society.
As far as I can tell financial issues are THE MOST IMPORTANT issues plaguing the country. We have relative peace and prosperity, equality for races, and LGBT. There is no threat of a major war between nations.
The fact is we can't continue deficit spending. In 30 years the entire Federal budget will be consumed by payments for medical care and social security, as well as interest on the debt. No amount of taxing me additionally will fix that. There needs to be structural reform of entitlements before we go looking to get more money. Taxing the "rich" is just an easy cop-out by politicians who don't want to make hard choices on entitlements.
If government actually made progress towards reforming entitlements, getting rid of waste and abuse like the horrendous disability system, and telling old people that they've been lied to, then I would actually consider paying more. Until then any money the government takes from me will be flushed down the hole of broken promises, and procrastination.
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deleted245139
Just taking this to illustrate the overarching theme here... This tape doesn't matter. Next one won't matter. The one after that won't either. Battle lines are drawn and people are digging in. The r wing politicians feigning surprise and pulling support are just posturing for the next election cycle, because, tho it won't matter, people will push them to answer for their trump support.
This election is laughable with no winners.
Are you referring to the man that outspokenly marks the entirety of Mexicans as rapists? The man that said all Muslims are ought to be banned from the country? The one that mocks a disabled reporter so proudly in front of hundreds of thousands of people? (And the asinine crown giggles). And most importantly of all, the one that has earned the support of a large Republican base because of some of these bigoted comments. You go ahead and keep supporting him. But I seriously hope you'll never be a physician, for you don't have the moral judgement to be one.
I know many physicians who have the same line of thought as you do. Decency and integrity predominate a bit of money lost on taxes.
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Burnett's law FTW!
Kind of surprising that it took 265 posts to get there on a thread like this.
We should are up a de facto over/under for such things. I might make a killing!!
Totally agree, but too bad Gary Johnson isn't in the debate right now. If I vote for Hillary or Trump I'd be throwing my vote away in my mind, so no qualms "throwing my vote away" on Gary Johnson...
Thought on round 2?
Kind of hard for me to get over Trump quite literally threatening to imprison her if he wins the election....and breaking away from Pence was also an interesting choice. On the *most* important topic, taxes (to some in this thread), I didn't understand how in 2 minutes he both blamed Hillary for "allowing" the rich to not pay taxes while she was in Congress and then followed it by telling everyone she would raise taxes as president.
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deleted109597
Vs the woman who called a quarter of our country deplorables? I'm not sure anyone is winning the dressed up pig contest here.
It is a very simple calculation. She labeled a chunk of his supporters as deplorable after they have supported him for the very same, highly deplorable reasons, for which I've already noted. Her statement is likely justified.
You're clearly biased, politics 101 you never attack the voters...it's like me saying that a chunk of HRC supporters are dishonest, untrustworthy and hypocrites just because she is...
I was almost fooled by your statement. You are comparing apples and oranges. Clinton's support has never seen a clear rise of momentum in the primaries because of her political corruption and clearly Machiavellian ways. One could state your statement about Hillary all day long, but it will have zero weight because it never turned out that way. On the other hand, Trump won the GOP precisely because of his talk on the wall and on banning Muslims. My point is, statistics showed a chunk of his supporters were behind him because of his inflammatory rhetoric. On the other hand, Bernie had a chance precisely because Clinton is corrupt.
In the debate I thought Trump did better than last time, though still not great. Still rambled, but less so, and didn't let himself get baited into anything new. He did at least hit most of his major talking points, the ad-lib about Lincoln was actually good, and his compliment at the end was humanizing. Still looked bad next to Clinton's practiced performance, and he didn't help himself by whining about the moderators, but he definitely did better.
His biggest problem was, once again, impulse control. He just couldn't restrain himself from pulling that stunt before the debate. He couldn't even manage a stunt that was actually about Hilary, he needed to focus on calling out Bill Clinton. Whatever you think of the accusations, and their relevance to this race, his delivery was one of the least Presidential things I've ever seen. It also showed a terrible sense for how to control the media: airing the stunt on the only day when his supporters would be seeing it through the harsh lens of CNN commentary, rather than a soft Fox News filter. This isn't going to play well with anyone who isn't already supporting him. It was like one of his tweets, but live action.
Overall he still looked less presidential than Clinton, especially when you add the stunt in. I'm not sure he lost much ground today, but he lost a ton this week and didn't do anything tonight that could be termed damage repair.
BTW, poor Mike Pence. First after a lifetime of being the squeakiest clean conservative possible he gets splashover scandal from Trump's video, and now Trump basically rolls his eyes at his foreign policy views in front of 80 million Americans. What a crappy week.
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Painful to watch.
After two of these hatefests, who wants to watch the third?
Re: undecided voters – what moves them from the blue to the red column? Trump didn't throw them much substantial policy in his rambling. I suppose if you've been living under a rock and hadn't already heard their campaign's negative talking points about HRC, then this was his chance to make sure you were aware of them. For her, already ahead in the polls, I think she didn't do anything specifically to make herself more unlikeable. I would probably also characterize her body language and engagement with the audience as probably more appealing and presidential.
If it's just about base turnout in spite of GOP folks calling for him to step down – well, we'll see.
After two of these hatefests, who wants to watch the third?
Re: undecided voters – what moves them from the blue to the red column? Trump didn't throw them much substantial policy in his rambling. I suppose if you've been living under a rock and hadn't already heard their campaign's negative talking points about HRC, then this was his chance to make sure you were aware of them. For her, already ahead in the polls, I think she didn't do anything specifically to make herself more unlikeable. I would probably also characterize her body language and engagement with the audience as probably more appealing and presidential.
If it's just about base turnout in spite of GOP folks calling for him to step down – well, we'll see.
Labeling struggling Americans as deplorable is unjustified in my opinion. Building a wall for security is not "inflammatory rhetoric" unless you are politically biased against it (you come across as leaning left)...Most Americans vote with their wallet and a chunk of his supporters are behind him because they're are economically struggling (which is partially linked to immigration policy)...People are also concerned about Radical Islamic terrorism and the safety of their families (ISIS is in part due to our failed middle east policies the past 8 years), personally I don't think we should keep on allowing any immigrants into this country unless we can provide for all (including veterans) that are already here. I don't think we should ship anyone out as well...Trump is a billionaire buffoon celebrity who has no filter and says whatever he wants whenever he wants. HRC should be ahead by 25% but its because of her corruption, dishonestly that she isn't but no one is going to label that a chunk of her supporters share the same characteristics
Think his job tonight was to stop the boat from totally sinking, which I think he did for the moment but overall trajectory remains in her favor...
When you stop drilling holes in the boat, it doesn't stop sinking. His job tonight wasn't just to not make mistakes (that was Clinton's job), it was to reframe the national narrative in a way that would actually draw at least some attention away from all of his recent revelations. He didn't accomplish that. I'm not sure what he could have done to accomplish that, but this definitely wasn't it. If he doesn't think of something soon the boat sinks.
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The fly landing on her twice was quite funny.....they are attracted to excrement.
I think I made an ethical misjudgment when saying that her statement is likely justified. I agree with a lot of what you said, except your view on immigrants (legal, that is), since many (aside from refugees) provide value for the country (physicians, professors, or people on business visas). I am going to take a long break from this thread. lol
Voting for Clinton changes nothing, voting for Trump will change the things. Either good or bad.
Once again, like I said after the 1st debate, I don't see this changing ANYONE's mind. Frankly with the continuous coverage that this ****show of an election has gotten over the past 1.5 years I don't buy that anyone is actually "undecided".
It will all depend on who actually goes out and votes. "Trump is sexist" and "Hillary is a lier" repeated X10000 isn't likely to swing things from where they are now
It will all depend on who actually goes out and votes. "Trump is sexist" and "Hillary is a lier" repeated X10000 isn't likely to swing things from where they are now
You mean, other than Paul Ryan?
As far as I know, Ryan didn't pull his endorsement, just declined to appear with him
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Skipping all the comments. Trump annihilated Hilary. The best they can come up with is some conversation about him talking about grabbing someones *****?
How about the real issues that he said?
1) Not giving a huge warning 4 weeks in advance before carpet bombing a terrorist hide out
2) Giving power back to competition to the insurance companies rather than a monopoly where rates just keep going up
3) Reducing corporate taxes so they can afford American labor
etc etc.
How about the real issues that he said?
1) Not giving a huge warning 4 weeks in advance before carpet bombing a terrorist hide out
2) Giving power back to competition to the insurance companies rather than a monopoly where rates just keep going up
3) Reducing corporate taxes so they can afford American labor
etc etc.
He's declined to appear with Trump ever again, has said he's not defending him in public any more, and told all congressional republicans that they have his permission to 'do what's best for them'. Trump is tweeting that Ryan is 'fighting' him. He might as well have pulled his endorsement, the hair splitting about not pulling it is probably just hurting the Republicans with moderates at this point, without placating any of the hard core Trump supporters.
New WSJ poll shows a 5 point gain for Clinton, now leading by 11% among likely voters in a 4 way race, 14% in a head to head.
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1) you do realize that ISIS lives among large civilian populations (that they are terrorizing) so unless you advocate carpet bombing cities with 99% civilian casualties to kill 1% terrorists that is idiotic.
2) i agree with you
3) this is a complex issue and reducing corporate rates won't solve it (why would they hire Americans instead of just pocketing the profit? Out of the goodness in their hearts?)
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I don't care how vile a person is so long as they run the country well. I don't want a role model, I want a person that won't burn the nation down. I firmly believe Trump is incapable of running this nation, potentially dangerously so. His other bull**** is a secondary concern.
I have many thoughts on the debate that I could post, but I know I won't change anyone's mind. So instead I'll try to improve everyone's day by posting this:
Well the latest polls have it. The Senate and possibly House are lost too.
A great victory for Globalist Elites is in the wings!
Truly we are in for some economically catastrophic legislation ahead, from "fixing" Obamacare, to climate change, to higher taxes, and more entitlements.
We can also look forward to 30 years of a Supreme Court who feels that the Constitution is a "living document" that needs to "adjust to the times".
A great victory for Globalist Elites is in the wings!
Truly we are in for some economically catastrophic legislation ahead, from "fixing" Obamacare, to climate change, to higher taxes, and more entitlements.
We can also look forward to 30 years of a Supreme Court who feels that the Constitution is a "living document" that needs to "adjust to the times".
And there we have it from chicken little..
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Arch Guillotti
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I like to expect the worst and then be pleasantly surprised when things aren't as bad. There's no harm now in planning for higher taxes and healthcare costs. If they don't materialize, then so much the better.
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68PGunner
Hopefully, we will start taxing guys like Buffett 30-40% income tax instead of the bs 15% capital gain tax rule.
Is that a bad thing? I don't think human moral/ethical/legal progress stopped abruptly at the end of the 18th century.
