UW vs Penn vs Yale vs Pritzker

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which school?

  • UW

    Votes: 17 13.5%
  • Pritzker

    Votes: 28 22.2%
  • Penn

    Votes: 55 43.7%
  • Yale

    Votes: 26 20.6%

  • Total voters
    126

WaveFunction

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I'm feeling very fortunate to have acceptances from these schools, but I feel a bit lost deciding between them.

About me:
WA state resident
non-trad
strong interests in clinical neuroscience research, medical ethics, and global health
went to Penn undergrad

My priorities (in no particular order):
- research and academic medicine
- good rotations with lots of exposure
- intellectual environment

Monetary breakdown (est 4-year COA):
UW: ~250k
Pritzker: ~150k
Yale and Penn: don't know yet

Thank you in advance for your thoughts and opinions! I'm posting mostly in hopes that past or current students from these schools will weigh in.
 
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Not a past or current student, but what do you mean by location? Seattle is different than New Haven which is different than Chicago which is sort of similar to but different than Philadelphia.
 
I have lived in both Philadelphia and Seattle and like both very much, but have less of a feel for New Haven and Chicago. I am definitely up for getting to know a new city though.
 
I have lived in both Philadelphia and Seattle and like both very much, but have less of a feel for New Haven and Chicago. I am definitely up for getting to know a new city though.
You say location is an important deciding factor to you, but you don't actually seem to have a strong location preference. Would it mean a lot to you to be close to your family, in Seattle? Or close to your undergraduate resources in Philly? Or would you rather try out a new city over either of those things? And if so, would you prefer it be a big city (Chicago) or a small one (New Haven)?
 
As good as UW is, I dont think you can turn down U Chicago, Penn or Yale. I lived in Seattle for awhile and Chicago for a year after undergrad, definitely liked Chicago more, tho the whether can get you sometimes. Id vote for either Penn or Pritzker!

Note: I turned down UW a couple years ago to go to a sunnier place 🙂 the overcast, Seattle Freeze, and puddles in the city didn't mesh well with my vibe
 
Sorry for the confusion: I put down location mostly to get opinions like husky's. I prefer Seattle and Philly to some extent, but I think that's mostly because of familiarity.
 
Sorry for the confusion: I put down location mostly to get opinions like husky's. I prefer Seattle and Philly to some extent, but I think that's mostly because of familiarity.

If its location, stay in philly then! U Penn's system is great, city center is awesome AND you can still go to Spring Fling! I think thats what most penn student miss the most when they graduate
 
New Haven is not a very nice city. If location is a factor for you, Yale wont be too great of a fit. In contrast, despite the cold, I have only heard amazing things about Chicago!
 
I went ahead and took location off my list of priorities, since it seems to be causing confusion.
 
Imo Chicago and penn are great for academic medicine, I'd go with whichever is cheaper between the two.

I wouldn't go to UW.

Yale is either not worth it if you don't care/like the Yale system or worth it regardless of cost if you do. I'm surprised you haven't mentioned this as it's the only medical school like it and is generally quite polarizing (largely in favor of Yale but some recognize that they couldn't handle the independence).

So imo determine if you like the Yale system and if you do go there regardless or if you don't go to the cheaper between Chicago and penn as both fulfill your requirements well.

A final and probably minor concern is whether you want to be in Philadelphia/penn for another 4 years.

In terms of career though penn/Chicago/Yale are all great and cost should be the determining factor if you don't have a strong bias for location or strong interest in Yale system.

Edit: I would also STRONGLY emphasize the importance of cost if you're considering academic medicine. The salary hit is substantial and you have to remember loans accrue during residency and fellowship (which can double the principle essentially). If you're interested in pursuing a lucrative specialty cost is MUCH less important.
 
Were I in your shoes and all were equally balanced for me about the schools themselves and what I wanted from them, I'd choose the alma mater. You already know the town and its atmosphere, its weather, its surroundings, its quirks, and you'll already have a handle on traffic. You probably already have a reasonable housing area scoped out in your head.

Less life adjustment for you means a better/faster start in on med school proper stuff.
 
I was admitted to Penn and waitlisted at Yale last year. That being said, I wouldn't underestimate the value of having honor-code exams and a very relaxed clinical year in which most people honor all of their rotations. Yale provides this and will get you to where you need to be. I didn't think New Haven was AS bad as people made it out to be and Philly isn't exactly the epitome of a desirable location either. Make your final decision when you get your financial aid offers from these schools.
 
Take your Penn acceptance and run with it. You will understand why when match time comes around.
If we were talking about Penn v. Drexel, sure, but the other choices here are Yale, Chicago and UW. Do you really think that there is a substantial (or any) difference between Penn and the others?
 
If we were talking about Penn v. Drexel, sure, but the other choices here are Yale, Chicago and UW. Do you really think that there is a substantial (or any) difference between Penn and the others?

Yes I do. As a third year, only Penn and UW make me do this face when heard:
obama-not-bad-campaign-poster.jpg


The others get a resounding "meh" and a shrug.

When I think of Yale I think of their joke of a curriculum. When I think of Chicago, I think of nothing. When I think of UW I think of an excellent school in an expensive city, very far from most other people. When I think of Penn, I think of an outstanding school in a livable city, with better connections to the top programs (for Internal Medicine at least).
 
Yes I do. As a third year, only Penn and UW make me do this face when heard:
The others get a resounding "meh" and a shrug.

When I think of Yale I think of their joke of a curriculum. When I think of Chicago, I think of nothing. When I think of UW I think of an excellent school in an expensive city, very far from most other people. When I think of Penn, I think of an outstanding school in a livable city, with better connections to the top programs (for Internal Medicine at least).

Agreed, Yale's match list this year was terrible.

/s
 
OP, I think it ultimately boils down to your own self-motivation. Non-limited honors designations, no Shelf exams, no percentiles/rank listed in Dean's Letters, and no AOA awarded until the end of fourth year means that you have to distinguish yourselves in other ways for tip-top programs, which is not difficult to achieve with Yale's resources if (1) you know what you are doing and (2) know what you need to do in order to do it
 
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I am biased. I go to Pritzker.

My advice would be go to whichever is cheaper, unless you have a compelling reason(family, relationship, etc) to be in one city or another.

I was deciding between Pritzker and Penn 2 years ago. I loved both schools for different reasons and it ultimately came down to finances and I have no regrets. Let me know if you have specific questions about Pritzker that I can help answer. Just FYI Penn gives significant aid(Penn & Pritzker were the only schools I got aid at) and they are sometimes willing to play the game of matching your other offers so if it comes down to finances you should see what they can offer you(or even if you are dead set on going to Penn, don't leave the money on the table).
 
Did you see Penn's match list? Superior.

Yale has a good match list, and is superior to the vast majority of medical schools. However, we are talking about picking it over two superior programs.
They are both phenomenal. At this level, it's not going to be your school that determines where you go for residency. It's going to be your own level of achievement. OP should go to the school they think they will perform best at.
 
Upenn and it's not even close. Only school anyone should consider turning down Penn for is HMS in my opinion.
 
To the OP @WaveFunction:

When considering Yale, think hard about whether the Yale system will work for you. Are you an independent student? Or are you someone who needs structure and timely checks of progress (via tests/exams)? If the latter, then yes, the curriculum can feel like "a joke" to you, and you will probably not do very well here.

New Haven is also no Philadelphia/Chicago/Seattle. Will you be ok with a less lively, smaller-than-a-city location? We do have NYC nearby, but it takes pre-planning to go there even for a day trip. If you love Philly and Seattle, you might be a city-type person.

Research/Academic medicine-wise, all 4 options are pretty equal in terms of power and prestige.
 
Unless you have some compelling reason to go to Yale or Chicago (huge cost difference, specific research opportunities, significant other, etc...)

I'd choose Penn.
 
Thanks for all of the posts! It's given me a lot to think about. I think this would be a good time to introduce some of my own biases and opinions about each school:

UW: I love the PNW - it's one of the most beautiful places in the world, and I think ultimately I would like to live here long-term. the curriculum at UW is exciting to me mostly because of the 3rd year WWAMI safari - lots of exposure in a variety of settings. I think there would also be good research opportunities here. My concern is that the other schools have more clout when it comes to academic medicine, and that UW is more focused on primary care (which is really important, just not what I see myself going into).

Pritzker: Seems like a nice small program with excellent resources in a great city. Pritzker students seem very happy and engaged, and the campus is beautiful. They offered me a substantial aid package, and it may be my least expensive option. I'm a little concerned about the weather (I do cloudy/misty way better than I do cold), and I know no one in Chicago.

Penn: very impressive institution that combines one of the best research environments with a great hospital system that would be amazing to train within. I have friends in Philly from undergrad as well as the 2 years I spent working at CHOP after graduating. Couple of things I don't like: I already have a decent network of people I know at Penn, and it may be better to gain more connections elsewhere. I am also not enthused that Penn insists on keeping grades around, but that's not a huge deal to me.

Yale: sorry I didn't mention the Yale System before - I think it's fantastic. It both fits my learning style (had a very eclectic, self-directed undergraduate experience) and attracts other students who are interested in how medicine interacts with science, politics, and culture. I have friends and family in NYC so its proximity is appealing. On the downside, I expect this to be my most expensive option and it's difficult to evaluate New Haven based on a single day there.
 
Frankly, I would immediately cut UW from your list. 250k is WAY too much in my opinion. Why would you ever pay/borrow that much when you could go to another great school for at least 100k less?
 
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How in the hell does a WA resident pay $250K to attend the WA state school? Eliminate that one first.
 
I really doubt the weather is all that different between philadelphia/chicago/new haven but I'd love to be proven wrong. They're all cold (for me anything under 30 in the winter is cold, YMMV). You're going to have to put on a bunch of winter junk, it will be uncomfortable, you'll survive.

If the Yale system appeals to you I'd strongly consider Yale...but I think Penn is also kind of close to NYC so I'm not sure how much of an advantage that is for Yale, but both have that over chicago for sure.

If I were going into academic medicine I would go with the cheapest option though. At the top places people paradoxically make less, especially considering the cost of living is quite high. Harvard knows it can afford to pay people less so it does. If you're making 150k, and with taxes that's like ~100k (with state too). Live off 50k (which isn't a ton of money in an urban setting which is where you likely will end up), gives you 50k left. Now consider interest of these loans after 8-10 years of compounding at 7% while you do residency/fellowship. it's ~440k if you borrow 250k total, and 260k if you borrow 150k total. Interest wise you're looking at 30,800 and 18,375 dollars respectively. So in one case you have 19k to pay off your debt in ~15-20 years and in the other case you have 32k to pay off your debt in ~7.

You also want to start saving for retirement at some point or a college fund etc.

If you're interested in surgery/most specialties (clinical not academic) you can see how both debt loads are very manageable, but in academia it's a real struggle sometimes.

Don't assume Yale or Penn will be more expensive than pritzker, but if they are I'd choose the cheaper option (only if you're exclusively considering academic medicine).

I also recommend reading a few articles on http://whitecoatinvestor.com/ for better perspective. As an ex. you can refinance your loans if you have sufficient income post-residency and save a good chunk of change, but that isn't really applicable to academic medicine as the debt to salary ratio is often too high. There are still some great tips pertinent to you though.

No, medicine is not about the money, but doctors are notoriously bad financial planners and the difference between those who plan and those who don't is immense (doubly so if you're dealing with a reduced salary).

Finally I want to reiterate that you shouldn't assume Yale and Penn will be more expensive, I just want to make sure you are informed about the realities of the financial decision you face, instead of just throwing up your hands like a lot of premeds do and say "wow lots of debt, who cares if it's 150k or 300k!" when it REALLY does matter if you're going into academic medicine. Very few doctors also have the patience to live off 50k a year for 7-15 years, if you aren't as frugal it only magnifies the situation.
 
Thanks for the post resiroth. You bring up some good points. I go back and forth about how important financial aid is in deciding where to go to school, and many people on SDN make it a priority. This makes sense given the astronomical (and rising) cost of medical education - the rest of the world can't believe how expensive American medical education is. However, one thing about your points concerning academic medicine confuses me: many top research institutions have need-only financial aid. Applying the logic you presented, does this mean that only people who come from families with lower income should go to these schools, and those that don't qualify for this type of aid should go elsewhere?

Disclaimer: I am a financially independent non-trad who thinks it's absurd that almost every school requires parental financial information.
 
I was in your situation last year (I'm a deferred matriculant heading to Penn this fall), deciding between several top programs. Yes, Penn is an an awesome city, with incredible clinical facilities, more research opportunities than you know what to do with and a jaw-dropping match list (and not just this year, its pretty consistently mind-blowing). But ultimately, it was the atmosphere of the place that won me over. All the students, administrators and faculty at Penn are so nice, and even as an applicant/accepted student, I felt that they really wanted me to be a part of the family. It also didn't hurt that Penn gives out amazing financial aid, and made it my most affordable choice as icing on the cake.
I say this not to sell you on Penn (although it would be cool to be classmates!), but to encourage you to be really introspective about what will make you happy. If there is a school that you feel will be a good fit in terms of giving you the support and environment for you to succeed, I would go there in a heartbeat. Best of luck with your decision!
 
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