VCOM Discussion Thread 2009-2010

[DOin2014]

yeah no dual MPH/DO with Duke, Hopkins or GW like the said on interview day, but they are offering a dual MPH/DO with VA tech (very convenient!)

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[RELAX11]

yeah no dual MPH/DO with Duke, Hopkins or GW like the said on interview day, but they are offering a dual MPH/DO with VA tech (very convenient!)

Always shady when a school lies to you during an interview day (saying these dual degrees exist) especially from a fiscally irresponsible school like vcom (as noted by the us government) who doesn't notify their intervewees that they are only interviewing for a wait list position.


What are they thinking that if they have links with prestigious schools that they can lure in better students to make them look better?

Vcom has a lot of uncertainties and just seemed plain fishy to me, and I am in the top tier of the wait list but wil most likely decline.

 

[mw2]

Always shady when a school lies to you during an interview day (saying these dual degrees exist) especially from a fiscally irresponsible school like vcom (as noted by the us government) who doesn't notify their intervewees that they are only interviewing for a wait list position.


What are they thinking that if they have links with prestigious schools that they can lure in better students to make them look better?

Vcom has a lot of uncertainties and just seemed plain fishy to me, and I am in the top tier of the wait list but wil most likely decline.

I just double checked the aacom guide... it shows where they have combined degree programs with VT, Duke, and Johns Hopkins. http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/cib/Documents/2011cib/2011cib-vcom-vc.pdf

For a private school to have such great connections with other schools it seems like it could only be a benefit to the students as it provides more opportunities...

Relax what uncertainties are you talking about? I'd love to know more as I continue to research. And I was also wondering if you applied after february 1st b/c in the same aacom guide it said to make sure and apply at least four weeks prior to the latest filing date which is February 1st for best consideration

 

[VCOMstudent]

I just double checked the aacom guide... it shows where they have combined degree programs with VT, Duke, and Johns Hopkins. http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/cib/Documents/2011cib/2011cib-vcom-vc.pdf

For a private school to have such great connections with other schools it seems like it could only be a benefit to the students as it provides more opportunities...

Relax what uncertainties are you talking about? i'd love to know more as i continue to research. And I was also wondering if you applied after february 1st b/c in the same aacom guide it said to make sure and apply at least for weeks prior to the latest filing date which is February 1st for best consideration

I'm not really sure what "great connections" you are talking about. Did you read two of the posts above yours? The truth is that despite what is being told to those interviewing and despite what is written in the AACOM guide, VCOM has absolutely NO affiliation, agreement, partnership, etc. with Duke or JH. Such comments are drawn from the same bag of lies that was used on my interview day when I was told that we were considered "graduate students of VT." VCOM students are being told that we can take a year off to complete the non-CEPH-accredited MPH program at VT. There is a change coming in the admissions office so it will be interesting to see whether or not VCOM will be able to continue playing the admissions game as well as it has up to this point.

If you are thinking of going DO, then I would HIGHLY recommend applying to a public university or a private university that is well-established. I would, in general, encourage you to avoid smaller, newer schools that only have a DO program. Why? Because of accountability, which, for the most part, doesn't exist at VCOM because the majority of people working there are family members of the person (the dean) who is calling all the shots.

As always, this is one person's perspective. What I say, however, is felt by MANY of my classmates. Then again, our class (second year) has been dragged to hell and back because of changes in the curriculum, schedule, and course syllabi. I think the current first years have had a better experience. Many of the problems, however, have been ongoing since the school began, which makes one question just how responsive and committed to improvement the dean really is.

I think RELAX11 is thinking clearly and seeing beyond the smoke and mirrors game that the admissions people play.

 

[bioman2006]

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[vcom2012]

I also never heard of Hopkins/Duke degree programs, and if they are listed somewhere as existing that is not true. The DO/PhD program with Virginia Tech is also null, it was there before but I heard that many of the students who started it are in residency and have not completed their PhD. It may come back eventually, as I'm sure all medical schools will have one because research is good business these days.

The MPH is something that they are just starting with Virginia Tech, I'm not sure of the accreditation but it is being designed to have most of its coursework to be fulfilled with online classes.

There is also an MBA dual-degree that you essentially apply to and enroll as a Virginia Tech graduate student for your 5th year, while taking some coursework between your 3rd/4th year. They do not require us to take the GMAT for enrollment, depending on the performance of the current students that are in that program.

I wouldn't go so far to say the advertisement of such programs and inconsistencies are smoke and mirrors, I prefer to think that there is just a large communication breakdown between certain elements at VCOM.

 

[RELAX11]

I don't remember hearing about the Hopkins or Duke degrees during my interview last year. In fact, this is the first time I've heard of it. The CIB should be updated.



Now, to be fair, the email from the dean of research specifically says, "The Dean and I think that our students will be best benefited if joined in the second class after it is accredited". So take the classes if you want, but you'll be wasting your time until the program is accredited. I can't believe MPH programs really take longer to get accredited than the actual degree length, but I digress...


Oh yes. No comparison to your class' misery, in my opinion.

Well at least the students aren't also in the cover up at vcom, it seems like it is even worse at vcom than I had previoulsy thought, which was already pretty bad.

 

[RELAX11]

I just double checked the aacom guide... it shows where they have combined degree programs with VT, Duke, and Johns Hopkins. http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/cib/Documents/2011cib/2011cib-vcom-vc.pdf

For a private school to have such great connections with other schools it seems like it could only be a benefit to the students as it provides more opportunities...

Relax what uncertainties are you talking about? I'd love to know more as I continue to research. And I was also wondering if you applied after february 1st b/c in the same aacom guide it said to make sure and apply at least four weeks prior to the latest filing date which is February 1st for best consideration

For 1 it is hard to believe that vcom admissions was unaware of the dual degree programs with duke, John Hopkins, and even VT. I mean it was one of their focal points during the PowerPoint presentation on the interview day.

You don't go throwing around prestigious names when you are not 100% certain that the programs exist. As others have said, vcom has no accountability. Even if they were in the process of getting an agreement between the duke, jh, etc why did it fall through? Il let you figure that out.

I guess this booboo would have been ok if it weren't the only mess up by vcom, but vcom is FULL of mess ups. Due to vcom's financial mess ups they now have a financial aid cap on what their students can take out; Vcom says the reason is because they want to limit the students debt, however I have my sources that say the government is limiting the amount of loans the school gives out because they abused it in the past.

I won't dwell in it because it has already been detailed by others but the dean does not nave a clear vision for the school and the students suffer the consequences. Just see the other posts.

There is a lot of movement with the staff at vcom,ie i tried to contact 2 people at vcom to find out that they no longer had their position.

It just made me pretty upset when I traveled all that way to discover I was interviewing for a WAITLIST SPOT. I was like r u serious? What happen to common decency? I paid for the application and I deserve honesty. I had other acceptances and would not have came if I would have known and saved a thousand dollars. This just goes together with the whole duke and John Hopkins thing. They seem to only care about themselves and do what ever it takes to lure in students.


All I can figure is that if this stuff is more public just imagine what is not known. It is scary. To me I would just feel dirty misguided if imwent to vcom.




I don't like to bash a school, but I really feel that it is legit in this case. If you don't mind going to a fake school with these qualities than by all means enjoy, I'm sure vcom won't mind having you.

 

[bioman2006]

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[RELAX11]

...

Strong words from a pre-med.

I won't discuss my opinions on these issues on an internet forum, but I will say this: I don't feel my education has been compromised.

I was the same way....then I thought to myself that it was only doing a disservice to those students who sought the truth, also I was asked a question and I responded.

 

[bioman2006]

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[RELAX11]

I've always used the private message function for that sort of stuff.

Not everybody comes to you knowing the problems of a school. If vcom wants good publicity then they should act in a way to deserve it and not lure in students with their unethical schemes.

 

[flyfella023]

Not everybody comes to you knowing the problems of a school. If vcom wants good publicity then they should act in a way to deserve it and not lure in students with their unethical schemes.

Who cares what you think and i'm glad you lost a thousand dollars. I'm with bioman, i've had a positive and solid experience with the curriculum with no major complaints. Stop blasting the school.. Pre med... tells me everything I need to know... ego must have been hurt when you found out you were interviewing for a wait list position and now you have to lash out.. sad..

 

[reveille16]

Who cares what you think and i'm glad you lost a thousand dollars. I'm with bioman, i've had a positive and solid experience with the curriculum with no major complaints. Stop blasting the school.. Pre med... tells me everything I need to know... ego must have been hurt when you found out you were interviewing for a wait list position and now you have to lash out.. sad..

And you were pre-med how long ago? The OP said that he had other acceptances so he will be a medical student in a matter of months. This makes you sound completely arrogant. I'm starting medical school in a few months, so it will be interesting to see at what point something will click, and I will suddenly feel superior to those stupid "pre meds" that are a whole year or two younger than me. Maybe it would be better if you kept to the big medical student threads, and left these poor helpless pre meds to fend for themselves.

 

[VCOMstudent]

I wouldn't go so far to say the advertisement of such programs and inconsistencies are smoke and mirrors, I prefer to think that there is just a large communication breakdown between certain elements at VCOM.

You may "prefer" to think that the advertisement of such programs in the CIB and interviews is because of a breakdown in communications, but I think you and I both know better than that. Again, I go back to my interview when a student asked the admissions director about the affiliation with VT. The group was told that we were considered graduate students. That, as you know, is completely untrue. So there are three possible explanations: (1) the admissions department has a history of telling potential students things that are not true in order to bolster the image of the school, (2) there is a breakdown in communication that rivals any other in history, or (3) the admissions people are totally clueless. I opt for #1 because the admissions people are quite bright and verifying the existance of such programs is a phone call away.

I wonder what JH and Duke would think about VCOM advertising these programs.

I don't feel my education has been compromised.

In all honesty, I'm glad to hear that you are happy (I'm assuming here) with VCOM. Afterall, you are paying 35K/year now, which will be 40K+/year by the time you graduate; you deserve high quality for that amount of money. I'm hoping that starting with your class, VCOM is finally getting things together. My class has been one large experiment, which continues as we speak. For example, we just got another revised schedule (version 5 or 6 now) that added a "simulation final" next week that will keep us in class from 0830 until 1900 (that's 7 pm)!! The vast majority of VCOM's issues--failing the Dept of Ed's financial responsibility test, overnight changes, etc--are due to the lack of accountability. The dean answers to no one and all of her family members and close friends that work there answer to no one; VCOM is their family business. During my time at VCOM, I have talked with well over 100 upperclassmen (and women), and I can count on one hand the number of people who have anything good to say about VCOM, or moreover, the dean. That is sad and certainly not the image I want my school to portray, but I'm afraid that is the reality that VCOM (and the dean) have created. Do you wonder why VCOM has difficulty getting alumni donations?

Again, I'm glad to hear that your experience has been positive and everyone has been completely transparent.

Who cares what you think and i'm glad you lost a thousand dollars. I'm with bioman, i've had a positive and solid experience with the curriculum with no major complaints. Stop blasting the school.. Pre med... tells me everything I need to know... ego must have been hurt when you found out you were interviewing for a wait list position and now you have to lash out.. sad..

Hey now, I could flame you because you are "just a first year." Try being a little more respectful of individuals and their experiences. I can see how someone would be upset about not being told they were interviewing for waitlist spots. How difficult is it for VCOM to say, "hey, by the way, you will be interviewing for a waitlist spot," when they call to invite someone for an interview? Failing to do so shows a certain lack of class.

 

[bioman2006]

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[VCOMstudent]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say it's because most of their grads are still broke-ass residents, but I get your point.

That's exactly what I thought, but that doesn't seem to keep anyone from asking. I recall a former student (good friend of mine and now a rads resident) telling me that the school tries to get students to commit to making contributions in the future, i.e., once they are finished with residency.

 

[rolltide85]

See Later Post

 

[danznchandee16]

what do you guys think about the videoconferencing for classes at the SC campus? do you think that would be a disadvantage? that means there are no professors there to ask questions to after class? or do you really ever have to ask questions anyway?

 

[tarheels85]

what do you guys think about the videoconferencing for classes at the SC campus? do you think that would be a disadvantage? that means there are no professors there to ask questions to after class? or do you really ever have to ask questions anyway?

So I was getting a little worried about this too after all of the negative talk about VCOM and how they operate and I decided to go to the source instead of listening to some disgruntled students. I emailed M. Bendall (the new director of admissions for the SC campus) about the SC campus and she said that the curriculum would mirror that of the VA campus, specifically mentioning that they will have their own faculty and staff to teach classes. I think this new branch will be a great addition to a good school. I am also seriously thinking about going there since it is so close to home and i think it would be fun to be a part of something new.

I am more in line with Biomans thinking and am glad that at least someone is grateful for their education. I think there will always be some people who are PO'D at the school no matter where you go so try not to worry about that too much. Anyway, hope that helps relieve some fears about the new campus!

 

[vcom2012]

You may "prefer" to think that the advertisement of such programs in the CIB and interviews is because of a breakdown in communications, but I think you and I both know better than that.

I can't argue with your logic, I do remember the grad student part. Maybe that was only applicable up to the following year when Carilion-VT med school opened. But if I had to pick my fights against VCOM, I wouldn't say lying about dual degree programs to bolster image would be the top of my list. The fact that they lie is probably not unique to VCOM, but they are too public about it and that hasn't hurt my education here.

The multiple schedule changes and reinventing the wheel with our class has been a major problem though. The lack of communication with us prior to changing our schedule millions of times is the metallic aftertaste of the bullets they shot the class of 2012 with.

I feel like I have learned a lot but the time I spent here was in no ways efficient to achieving that end. If you need an example, my half-rant actual schedule for this week:

Monday
8:30-12:50- Two exams with one of them half fill-in, and we have never had a fill-in test in the two years I have been here until today (over roughly 26 hours of lecture we had the previous week)
1:30-3:20- Neuroanatomy again, not boards neuro but basic neuro.

Time for boards: 2-3 hours depending on how much sleep you got studying for the morning exams.

Tuesday
8:30-12:20- Neurophys, neuromicro, differential diagnosis (DD), brain/spinal cord pathways syndromes. The last one was alright, the rest of them is not boards 1:30-4:30 DD, Dr. Rizk's actual board review neuro pathology.

Time for boards: 1-2 hours if your brain is not scrambled eggs. Dr. Rizk was time well spent.

Wed
8-5 a seminar on bioterrorism taught to us by a lot of faculty, pass/fail, we are required to be there or will have to leave our rotations to make this up next year if we do not show, if we show up late it we are failed. We are not allowed to bring any laptops or material to study for boards, if we are caught studying we are failed (have to repeat next year) and get a nice referral to the dean and have to write some kind of letter that sounded unpleasant.

Time for boards: 0

Thurs
8-12- time allotted to fill out a FEMA disaster preparedness online course related to said bioterrorism seminar, due friday morning.
12-late- Standardized patient exam for 1/3 the student body

Time for boards: If you have an SP, 0 since you have to prepare and do the SP. If you don't have it this week, you can study 3-5 hours after you finish the FEMA thing.

Fri
ECE- varies from a few hours to all day, I am in the all day camp

Time for boards: 0

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tl;dr Here's just a random sampling of my week of 5/10 at VCOM and all I want to do is study for boards. We only have two hours of boards relevant lecture from Dr. Rizk and the rest of the time is more or less wasted in my opinion.

That's what I hate about the curriculum, and there's not a single person that works in administration that will listen to me (or even my representatives in the SGA).

And for whoever was talking about the SC campus, if it's videoconferencing a la VCOMTV (even if they have live lecture you will have some video classes here). That system was down pretty much this whole last weekend, so in the process of studying for our test monday we had to go back to student-run podcasts to get to our lectures, and the answers to the practice test were unavailable to me. So the system is unreliable as of today, maybe it'll be better by then?

And yes, another ranting tangent. Our tests are graded and they don't release the test questions or keys so you will never know what you missed unless the instructors do a post-test review session to go over their questions, which is scheduled to be as inconvenient as possible. And it's a little ironic that we take a practice test to help prepare for our test on monday, and we don't have access to our practice test questions or key either.

I hate life today.... I'll come back when I'm a little happier (friday night).

 

[VCOMstudent]

I can't argue with your logic, I do remember the grad student part. Maybe that was only applicable up to the following year when Carilion-VT med school opened. But if I had to pick my fights against VCOM, I wouldn't say lying about dual degree programs to bolster image would be the top of my list. The fact that they lie is probably not unique to VCOM, but they are too public about it and that hasn't hurt my education here.

The multiple schedule changes and reinventing the wheel with our class has been a major problem though. The lack of communication with us prior to changing our schedule millions of times is the metallic aftertaste of the bullets they shot the class of 2012 with.

I feel like I have learned a lot but the time I spent here was in no ways efficient to achieving that end. If you need an example, my half-rant actual schedule for this week:

Monday
8:30-12:50- Two exams with one of them half fill-in, and we have never had a fill-in test in the two years I have been here until today (over roughly 26 hours of lecture we had the previous week)
1:30-3:20- Neuroanatomy again, not boards neuro but basic neuro.

Time for boards: 2-3 hours depending on how much sleep you got studying for the morning exams.

Tuesday
8:30-12:20- Neurophys, neuromicro, differential diagnosis (DD), brain/spinal cord pathways syndromes. The last one was alright, the rest of them is not boards 1:30-4:30 DD, Dr. Rizk's actual board review neuro pathology.

Time for boards: 1-2 hours if your brain is not scrambled eggs. Dr. Rizk was time well spent.

Wed
8-5 a seminar on bioterrorism taught to us by a lot of faculty, pass/fail, we are required to be there or will have to leave our rotations to make this up next year if we do not show, if we show up late it we are failed. We are not allowed to bring any laptops or material to study for boards, if we are caught studying we are failed (have to repeat next year) and get a nice referral to the dean and have to write some kind of letter that sounded unpleasant.

Time for boards: 0

Thurs
8-12- time allotted to fill out a FEMA disaster preparedness online course related to said bioterrorism seminar, due friday morning.
12-late- Standardized patient exam for 1/3 the student body

Time for boards: If you have an SP, 0 since you have to prepare and do the SP. If you don't have it this week, you can study 3-5 hours after you finish the FEMA thing.

Fri
ECE- varies from a few hours to all day, I am in the all day camp

Time for boards: 0

---

tl;dr Here's just a random sampling of my week of 5/10 at VCOM and all I want to do is study for boards. We only have two hours of boards relevant lecture from Dr. Rizk and the rest of the time is more or less wasted in my opinion.

That's what I hate about the curriculum, and there's not a single person that works in administration that will listen to me (or even my representatives in the SGA).

And for whoever was talking about the SC campus, if it's videoconferencing a la VCOMTV (even if they have live lecture you will have some video classes here). That system was down pretty much this whole last weekend, so in the process of studying for our test monday we had to go back to student-run podcasts to get to our lectures, and the answers to the practice test were unavailable to me. So the system is unreliable as of today, maybe it'll be better by then?

And yes, another ranting tangent. Our tests are graded and they don't release the test questions or keys so you will never know what you missed unless the instructors do a post-test review session to go over their questions, which is scheduled to be as inconvenient as possible. And it's a little ironic that we take a practice test to help prepare for our test on monday, and we don't have access to our practice test questions or key either.

I hate life today.... I'll come back when I'm a little happier (friday night).

Well, after that there is really nothing left to say. Your assessment is spot on, but please allow me to continue on the topic of schedules... Take the sum of the time left for boards studying this week (amidst the classes that are totally useless and done for no other reason than a photo opportunity, i.e., bioterrorism class), and consider that Monday or Tuesday you will have to be in class until 7 freakin' pm for something we have been told nothing about! I'm sure what we are doing will remain a mystery and it will magically be "for a grade," that if we don't pass we will "have to come back next year from rotations." Once again, something that is probably a result of a dream the dean had the night before.

I have come to the conclusion that VCOM has a pathologic inability to effectively execute anything, and it all comes back to one person. The boards review block was a great idea. Who would have ever argued with that? Once implemented, however, and with the exception of Dr. Rizk's material, it has been largely the same regurgitated crap that we were given during regular blocks from the same (not all) inept professors. Moreover, everything is for a grade and we are tested almost every week in true VCOM form, because the administration would never miss an opportunity to give a test or a grade.

Lastly, does lying about having dual-degree programs with prestigious universities affect the average student? No. It does, however, show the character of those who are running the school (the same fiscally irresponsible people who are putting our tuition money in "shell corporations").

Sorry. Your post just really fired me up.

 

[VCOMstudent]

So I was getting a little worried about this too after all of the negative talk about VCOM and how they operate and I decided to go to the source instead of listening to some disgruntled students. I emailed M. Bendall (the new director of admissions for the SC campus) about the SC campus and she said that the curriculum would mirror that of the VA campus, specifically mentioning that they will have their own faculty and staff to teach classes. I think this new branch will be a great addition to a good school. I am also seriously thinking about going there since it is so close to home and i think it would be fun to be a part of something new.

I am more in line with Biomans thinking and am glad that at least someone is grateful for their education. I think there will always be some people who are PO'D at the school no matter where you go so try not to worry about that too much. Anyway, hope that helps relieve some fears about the new campus!

Who is this "M. Bendall"? Why not try talking to someone involved with the biomedical curriculum instead of someone in the admissions office. They may be nice, but they have demonstrated that, as a whole, they really don't know what is fiction or reality. They are supposed to have some faculty, e.g. anatomy, for classes that are hands on, but per BIOMEDICAL FACULTY the plan at this moment is for much of the lecturing to be videocasted. Heck, they're already implementing the videocasting thing at the home campus.

All that aside, I would STRONGLY advise you to resist the temptation to be a part of anything new with VCOM. It almost never ends well. Go to the Blacksburg campus if VCOM is right for you. Good luck.

 

[vcom2012]

I don't mean to try and devalue my education here. I think I will pass and do quite well on boards which to some extent is the universal measure of your medical school's success in educating. It has been a struggle though with all hurdles we've had to jump.

 

[Vita]

Wow, must suck to be in class of 2012. Fortunately for the class of 2013, Dr. Rzik is meeting with our class officers to get their input into how to make our Block 8 better. Also, we haven't had any of this "changing the schedule all the time" thing that we keep hearing about from the class above us.

Oddly enough, I know people who are 3rd and 4th years, as well as residents, who went to VCOM and don't complain nearly as much as the current second years here. Either a) their class got the short end of the stick and that just sucks, or b) they have several very verbal members who make a lot out of small problems.

Either way, the experiences of the class of 2012 don't accurately represent the overall experience here.

 

[RELAX11]

Wow, must suck to be in class of 2012. Fortunately for the class of 2013, Dr. Rzik is meeting with our class officers to get their input into how to make our Block 8 better. Also, we haven't had any of this "changing the schedule all the time" thing that we keep hearing about from the class above us.

Oddly enough, I know people who are 3rd and 4th years, as well as residents, who went to VCOM and don't complain nearly as much as the current second years here. Either a) their class got the short end of the stick and that just sucks, or b) they have several very verbal members who make a lot out of small problems.

Either way, the experiences of the class of 2012 don't accurately represent the overall experience here.

But wouldn't it be nice to lump all the problems at vcom on the class of 2012.
Too bad it is not that easy.

 

[vcom2012]

I would say more A. We were the first class to be introduced to the block system of one unit at a time, rather than doing the traditional anatomy/phys first and pharm/path second year- we didn't know this when we got accepted, they told me this a week before my classes started.

We originally were on a week of testing every two-three weeks with only one subject being tested on any given day. In block 5, they made these into comprehensive tests with every subject tested every other monday (this alone dropped our test averages by 15-20%- which were subsequently curved heavily because half the class would have had to remediate by VCOM's definition of 70% to pass). This block was such a failure that they separated out our final exam into a week and made one of the final exams optional (Big controversy by the way because this final exam had almost a half of its questions repeats from the first exam, so the students that took the final exam were in a better position than students who opted out)., in doing so they also began something sinister called adjusting the percentages your tests are worth. This happened in a later block after we took the exam they'd change the weight of the exam.

Block 6 the dean admitted to us that block 5 was a failure and was her fault. So they went back to having no more than 2-3 subjects on any given test day, but decided it's better to have them more frequently so we had a test every week (mostly mondays).

The schedules have multiple revisions made to them, you can find them here: http://www.vcom.vt.edu/curriculum/calendars.html

All you have to do is check the beginning of the block and check the revision date and imagine how many classes they moved around, added, or deleted. They have surprised us with new tests, like the physical diagnosis test that was not part of any specific coursework but was a personal gift from VCOM. They have given us classes without a syllabus (integrated medicine/infectious diseases) and we would take a test on them, then decide at the end of the block that it was not really much of a course to have 3-4 lecture hours with a test worth 100% of your grade and decided to combine it with the tests in a future block and even now I don't know what happened to my grade in that class.

I never went to them and was like hey, what's going on? I was flexible with whatever schedule or acrobatics they wanted me to perform cause I'm a medical student, but to say that the class of 2012 was not some kind of science experiment in education is simply not true.

We might as well have been the first class VCOM ever had. I am glad to hear you're all better off now because of it.

We might be a whiny class on the whole, but wouldn't you whine if you were given four hours of anatomy class and lab on a friday and then tested on it (and all your other coursework in the last two weeks) the following monday? It's no wonder I didn't learn my cardio anatomy very well, I never had time to study it.

 

[vcom2012]

That's the problem with venting, once you get started on VCOM more stuff comes to mind.

Today we got our SP grades back from last block, they decided to split it into three components- humanistic, biomedical, and a physical diagnosis test. Before they were just pass/fail, there was no test, and the humanistic and biomedical components were weighed by whatever faculty graded your encounter.

Now if you fail any of these three components you have to remediate that. In practice we had Virginia Tech students as our SP last time, I have friends that failed the humanistic component because the VTech student said that they felt the student doctor rushed or wasn't empathetic enough, even if the doctor that grades it comments well on their overall SP performance... we are now apparently graded by 19 year olds as well.

Am I really whining or is this just a collection of facts? I'm not the only one in my class who thinks being failed by an 18-22 year old is unfair. I know I'm not the most charismatic and master examiner and educator, I'm actually really nervous when I have to examine someone that is only a few years younger than me about genitourinary problems. Forgive me for being human.

 

[Vita]

Venting is fine and I understand why the second years do it - it does suck that you all were the guinea pigs. However, on these boards, I think it is important that people see that VCOM is learning from their mistakes and that for the c/o 2013 we have been overall very satisfied with how things are being presented to us/ run. Our curriculum is very different than what you had your first year as well, though, so we really can't compare out classes.

If VCOM continues what they did for our class, I think that the following years will be comfortable with the system. Our block 1 did suck (like your Block 5), but they corrected it and things have been much better ever since. For 2013, we haven't had the multiple changes that the 2012ers had to deal with, and likely the 2014 class won't have those changes as well. So instead of pointing out all the problems VCOM had, can't we recognize that they have improved since your class?

Nothing is going to make it suck any less that your class became the guinea pigs, but at least the incoming classes know what they are getting into (instead of being surprised, like you all were) as far as the non-traditional curriculum. I chose VCOM because of this curriculum, since many of the schools I saw were moving in that direction as well and I thought it would work better for me (a choice that 2012 didn't have).

As for the SPs - I personally really like them. I know that the grading system gives a lot of room for subjective grading (like the SPs grading us on humanistic skills), but they will prepare us for Step 2 at least (or at least expose us to SPs in general). They do need to explain to the SPs how big of a deal it is when one of them fail us on the humanistic part, for sure - I don't believe that the SP actors really understand how damaging it can be to put "poor" for a section.

Anyway - good luck on boards and thank you all for giving feedback to the faculty. Honestly, they were really receptive to the changes you all suggested, and it has made our first year much better in comparison.

 

[RELAX11]

It is not just problems with the curriculum for the class 2012. Even if everything is truly getting better (take that with a grain of salt) try explaining all the other problems mentioned. Just remember that SOME students feel they owe it to themselves to attend a good school, and will try to justify it to themselves when all else logic fails.

 

[Vita]

It is not just problems with the curriculum for the class 2012. Even if everything is truly getting better (take that with a grain of salt) try explaining all the other problems mentioned. Just remember that SOME students feel they owe it to themselves to attend a good school, and will try to justify it to themselves when all else logic fails.

I am not attempting to justify any problem. All schools have problems, it is by far not unique to VCOM. I am pointing out that many of the things that have been mentioned here pertain to one class, and that SOME students had a very different experience so far.

 

[Lucylu123]

I'm going to throw in my 2 cents here as another 2013er.

While I don't think VCOM is perfect, and there are certain things that irk me here and there, I definitely don't feel like my education is compromised. I am happier with the way things are run and with the faculty more often than not.

Change is NOT always a bad thing. It does suck that 2012 had to go through what they did, and I'm sorry that it left so many bad feelings. But for future applicants, I think as Vita stated, its important to realize that change is going in the right direction.

Our class has had very minor changes in the schedule here and there, but most of the time they are so insignificant that I have to compare calendars to see what they changed when they send new ones out. Its generally just flip flopping some lectures, maybe to accomodate lecturer's schedules. Who knows. In the long run, it really makes no difference.

I think its worth it to give the dean some credit for getting up in front of your class and take responsibility for block 5. And they fixed it. Sure, they have messed around with tests being either every Monday, or every other week, but there are pros and cons to each of these methods and its actually kind of nice to have a mixture of both. Sometimes you get a free weekend to study whatever you want, and other times you only have a few lectures to study for each test allowing you to learn the material more thoroughly.

As for SPs, although having the SP give you a grade might seem unfair, I think its important to realize that "some VT student" with an STD will someday be your real patient and its helpful to know how they way you handled the situation made them feel. I used to work at a clinic where there was a good amount of testing done for this, and some doctors were excellent at handing these sticky situations, and others not so much. I'm sure if they actually got feedback from their patients they would be better for it. Our last SP was with elderly patients, and mine made the comment that I did not help her take her socks off. This never would have crossed my mind as she did not seem to have difficulty with them, but I'm glad to know how she felt! One day when I'm with an actual patient, I will probably remember that comment and ask if they would like some help.

I just want people to know that VCOM is not full of angry students, because that is what this board is starting to look like.

Anyone is free to PM me with any questions.

 

[danznchandee16]

yes, it is definitely disturbing to see all the complaints on this post as an upcoming VCOM med student. i know 2 other students from my undergrad college that go here and only have good things to say about VCOM. i'm glad to hear that things are improving and some of you see it as a good school. and i am definitely sorry to hear what some of you have had to go through!

 

[jmb23]

As an accept/wait list applicant (deferred until 2015 unless a spot opens up) it is kind of discouraging to read about all of the problems with VCOM's previous classes and misinformation about dual degree programs.

So I recently called and spoke to the admissions office to get some clarification (I hope). The staff member I spoke with said:

1. The Spartanburg campus would have it's own faculty and that there may be some video courses -- similar to what would be going on at the Blacksburg campus. This means real classes with real professors.

2. The John's Hopkins Dual degree program fell through because no student actually enrolled in it. But the Duke Global Health Program is still an option that you can apply to between your second and third year. Half is completed during the fourth year, you graduate with your class, but then finish the coursework in the 5th year. There is also the VTech MPH option.

On a different note...
has anyone heard anything about movement on the waitlist? If you're outside the top 10 is there any way to find out how "outside" you are??

thanks!

 

[litcarter1]

I too wanted to know if you could find out where you actually stand on the wait list other than top tier,do they re-rank people to put them in the top ten or is there a standing number?, I will probably call and check on Monday, but I didn't know if anyone has already. Also, has any one heard about any movement on the wait list? Thanks and good luck to everyone.

 

[danznchandee16]

I too wanted to know if you could find out where you actually stand on the wait list other than top tier,do they re-rank people to put them in the top ten or is there a standing number?, I will probably call and check on Monday, but I didn't know if anyone has already. Also, has any one heard about any movement on the wait list? Thanks and good luck to everyone.

i would definitely lilke to know all of this as well! if you find out anything, please fill me in! thanks!

 

[litcarter1]

I was told that the admissions process is ongoing, and they couldn't tell me how many people were considered in the top tier nor where I was ranked in the top tier. It sounded like after there is movement in the top 10 the committee reassesses for the top 10 again, not sure but that is just what I am guessing from what it sounded like.

 

[danznchandee16]

just from some of the posts in here, there have been several people that have said they are not taking their seat at VCOM. so either there has been some movement or there will be some movement soon. at this point, it's getting so late in the season that i'm perfectly happy to take the automatic acceptance for next year

 

[tideleonheart]

Hey there, I'm a happy 2nd year. Whew there's a lot of issues going on here. I'm very sorry that the 2nd years that have posted have been so condescending to VCOM.

Changes in schedule. Seriously, VCOMstudent and vcom2012? Is your life so vastly impacted by a small change in schedule 10 days later that you have to flame VCOM about it? Here's the facts. There have been 3 changes during Block 8 (that I know of - may have deleted an e-mail here or there). You pre-meds can determine among yourselves whether or not this is a "tolerable" offense.

1. On 5/7, we received a revision adding 2 meetings on 5/17 and 5/18 after classes. These later got canceled. No consequence, 10 days notice, no big deal.
2. On 5/5, they decided to change an exam on 5/27 from a practice exam to a legitimate exam. Why? Because we have a final exam the next day over all of block 8, and it would have been pointless to have 3 days of class that wasn't tested before the actual exam. This was 22 days notice, no big deal.
3. On 4/27, they removed *1* "intro to 3rd year" lecture, and made it into an SDL. (SDLs are "student directed learning" where we watch it on our own at home.) Why aren't you all praising VCOM for letting us get out early this day instead of staying for a non-board relevant, non-necessary class? Not only that, but it allowed us to not have to come back after lunch for a single lecture. 2 days notice, a good change for us.

Honestly, schedule changes are most of the time no big deal. Why does a change a week from now make you all mad? You are going to be here being a medical student nonetheless. Having a class switched from 11:30 to 10:30 doesn't make a difference!

No time for board study in block 8. (via vcom2012): I don't know what you all have been doing, but you must be doing something wrong. I come to class, and listen. If the teacher is obviously not good at board teaching, I plug in headphones and do question bank questions. If the teacher IS good (Rzik, Li, Ziggy, even Rogers was good), I pay more attention. We get out of class at 3:30, I go home and read the corresponding FA sections, and voila. Lots of board study. This has been clearly reflected in very big increases in my question bank %'s correct. I don't care who you are or what school you go to, no one and nothing will ever be able to hold your hand and give you a 650 on COMLEX. It's all up to you. Additionally, attendance is not strict during anything except DDX (which we had significantly fewer lectures in DDX than Comprehensive Review). If VCOM is wasting so much of your time as you all say and leaving you with "0" board study time (vcom2012), why don't you just leave and do your own study?

"Here's just a random sampling of my week of 5/10 at VCOM and all I want to do is study for boards" - That's not a very random sample you picked. That week was the oddball week. The other weeks have been very striaghtfoward. Class till 3:30, test on monday, practice test on thursday (which you can essentially show up for and leave), and possible Early Clinical Experience on friday. Plenty of time to study for boards.

Bioterrorism. Yes. It was silly and sucked. But it was just 1 day. "8-12- time allotted to fill out a FEMA disaster preparedness online course related to said bioterrorism seminar, due friday morning." Grossly misconstrued by a disgruntled 2nd year. The truth here is that it took a very short period of time (15 minutes if you were skimming, 2 hours if you really wanted to read and learn). Also, it was due monday at 4, not friday morning. There was plenty of time to do it and it didn't even take long.

Videoconferencing in SC. Please don't take anyone's word here, and ask actual sources.

Hopkins/Duke. Thanks jmb23 for not jumping into the bashing and actually asking the question to credible people. There you all have it. Hopkins fell through, Duke and MPH with VT are still valid.

Donations. "Do you wonder why VCOM has difficulty getting alumni donations?" Seriously, low blow there, VCOMStudent. As bioman said, because the very first class is just now finishing up their 3rd year in residency, and are still in loads of debt. Also, what college or grad school doesn't bug their alumni for money? I know my alma mater does.

Block 5. It's in the past, it's not going to happen again, but it really bugs me when people bash block 5. It was hard. very hard. It was stressful! We had mountains of material and tests every 2 weeks. BUT WE LEARNED IT WELL! I don't give a care in the world about class averages, I care about how well we learned the material. And when I go through review books and first aid on Cardio and Pulm, they are definitely 2 of my stronger subjects. THAT is how I gauge the quality of material that we've been taught. I don't care that 1/5 of Reilly's questions can be taken 2 ways and throw me for a loop. I learned the material, and that's the goal of medical school. If you didn't learn the material, then that's on you, not VCOM. No teacher will be perfect, and if you have cracks in your education, it's up to you to fill them in with proper study.

Moral of the story. Med school is hard, and tends to bring out the stressed side of people. The reality is that a lot of people feel entitled to have their hand held all the way through school. They don't want to take the blame on themselves for not learning the material well enough. Instead, they like to complain that their circumstances weren't right or the teachers weren't teaching them good enough. A majority of your learning, even with great teachers, is on your own! My tip to you premeds is to keep an open mind, and if you aren't "getting it" from a teacher, go look up the appropriate book and LEARN it! PM me if you have any questions. Also, VCOMStudent can say that his/her feelings are shared with "MANY" peers... well, likewise, my feelings of satisfaction, especially with Block 8 (!), is also shared with many of my peers.

Edit: just to be fair, honest, and complete, we got one more schedule update today (5/24). They swapped a teacher from today with wednesday. 0 days notice.

 

[PeachyPhd]

Thanks for providing another opinion of VCOM! I am planning on applying, but was growing worried with all the negative comments.

It seems that as a medical student (and resident) in any medical program that flexibility is super important.

 

[Poliphilo]

Thanks for adding your opinion. Nice hearing positive things.

 

[wilso3]

Thanks for adding a little positive feedback about the program at VCOM. Everything I read on these boards I take with a grain of salt because I know the more frustrated students are more likely to come post negatives. If medical school was supposed to be easy and was structured according to each student's wish, everyone would go through it. I am looking forward to attending VCOM whether it is this fall or next. Thanks again for taking the time to talk about your positive experience at the school.

 

[211519]

I'm just finishing up first year, and since it's been said very well, I won't write a detailed argument for VCOM. Let's just say that I LOVE the school, and I'm very happy here. PM me if you have any questions.

VCOM was my 1st choice, and I definitely made the right choice.

 

[TitanPB]

-

 

[211519]

Ok, I'm done. Bring it, haters.

Well said.

Alright, I'm going to comment for real this time. I re-read the comments made by vcomstudent and vcom2012, and it irritated me at 7:00 am, so that's enough of an excuse to write a lengthy response. This is directed at the incoming first years.

Let me start by saying that every institution on earth - graduate schools, colleges, high schools, businesses - every single one has at least one problem. People complain at the invested, Ivy type schools that the administration can be stuck in their ways, that the buildings are old, that the technology is lacking (in some cases), but complaints do not equate to a universal truth or a failure of the system. At the newer schools, people complain that the schedule changes, that the administration isn't sure of themselves, and that too much experimenting goes on. The same principles hold - complaints are merely complaints.

A public forum is not a proper or effective place to incite change; no Dean is trolling the SDN boards, looking for suggestions on how to improve his/her school. A public forum, however, is an excellent place to spew out verbal garbage, out-of-context information and slanted views with the hope of contaminating the views of the happy incoming students. It's selfish and inappropriate. Concerned with the school? Join a commmittee. I must have missed you at the meetings and during the report writing.

I love VCOM. I'm not kidding. My college went through financial problems while I was attending. Problems? Sure. My high school was a new school with a new Magnet program the year I started. Do you think that caused issues? Yep.

But hey, I can see where a negative, glass-half-empty type of person would feel this way.

I'm the opposite, so here's what I think, block by block - which will be much more similar to your schedule once you get here in August.

Block 1

This block is considered the foundations block. You take biochem, micro, ethics, epidemiology, nutrition, ppc/omm, pathology, and a few other bits of classes. Biochem carries the most credit hours, and the professor is amazing. You'll love him. He makes you smile every day; he'll email you a paragraph of explanation for a question that you might even think is stupid. He truly wants everyone to do well, and is an excellent advocate for the students. I enjoyed the block, and I personally though that having massive block tests was a good (while admittedly stressful) idea. It would have prepared us for boards - full day test? Cakewalk by the end of 2nd year. Sadly, Va Tech's server couldn't support the testing tech (it was NOT VCOM's fault), and they ended up going back to paper tests spread out in a more traditional fashion.

My class had a significantly harder Block 1, but we also ended up with significantly higher averages. Attribute that to what you will.

I'm not a personal fan of a couple of the classes, but I realize that's my own dislike, not an overarching defect in the school. Epidemiology? Shoot me. I hate it. VCOM didn't make me hate it. I dislike it b/c I suck at it, and I have almost no interest in memorizing anything related to it.

Block 1 was an awesome intro to med school. It wasn't as hard as I thought med school would be, and I still had time to have fun. I made solid grades, and I enjoyed that time here.

Block 2 - Blood and Lymph

This block followed the system's structure, which drew me to the school. The testing kinks were totally worked out, and we started other classes like pharm and anatomy/histology. Some people felt that this block was easier (like me), but others were slightly overwhelmed by the level of info.

This block seemed like the longest, b/c it was broken up by holidays. We had a lecture moved around here and there, and the Dean definitely changed our schedule right before Christmas break - oh, the horror - to allow us to leave earlier for home and the holidays.

At this point, we had not started anatomy lab, so there's not too much to say other than to comment on didactics. Lecturers differ. I love some that my roomie does not, and vice versa. It's personal preference. Just because I don't like someone's teaching style doesn't mean that the school failed; it means that I learn that topic better a different way. However, I generally learn everything better on my own - so that's no surprise.

We had our first SP. It's an AWESOME idea. I've talked to VCOM grads who say that the SPs alone prep them for Step II PE.

This block, my class also started making study guides and practice tests that are publicly available to every single person in the class. It's fair, and it demonstrates 2013's attitude. We want everyone to do well, and this is only an echo of the attitude of the Dean and others. I've never in my life heard of an administration so willing to listen to the concerns of students and actually initiate a change in response to those concerns within the same academic year. The Dean (as it has been said) is an amazing person who gives so much of herself to the students. The administration has programs in place to reward students for excercising, participating in non-study activities and going to school events. The Dean even keeps kayaks that she lets students use in the summer. Who does that?

Block 3 - Neuro/Psych

This block was the hardest of the year. The anatomy lab began, so that was an experience. Fortunately, the cadaver lab is amazing here. Other schools use our lab as a model for their own. (gush gush) The didactics for the lecture didn't sit with my learning style, but I learned the info on my own, because I'm in medical school (and I'm an adult). Lifelong learning is something that you have to opt into.

We had the most pharm, the most anatomy, the most everything - more OMM, a tougher SP - and guess what? Our class did even better. I just went to a conference with some of my classmates, and we destroyed the other students as far as knowledge of neuro goes.

Everything we needed to learn was given to us. When yo needed more info or clarification, ask and it shall be given. If you need an outline or study guide, it's probably already posted by one of your classmates. We work together and with the faculty, and our education is excellent.

This block differed A LOT from the same block in the 2012 class. It's almost not even the same thing. Don't listen to a word they say - the main faculty are different and the topics are different. The main similarity is that our SPs were pretty much the same CC.

Oh, and yes there were moved lectures. They also added a couple 1 hour meetings for the Quality Assessments. What's that you ask? That's when we, the students, assess every class, book and professor, evaluate their pros and cons, and submit that info to the administration.

Block 4 - Derm, Muscles

I'm finishing up the last week of class for this one right now. It's a really short block for us - 6 or 7 weeks. We've had the Block 3 QAC meeting already, and I'm not sure when we'll have this block's QAC. However, I'm not at all distressed by the mystery of that hour of my life.

Again, good block, probably even better teaching overall. I love the Anatomy guy this time around - he's efficient and gets right through the lectures. The lecturer for Derm is good, and most clinical case lectures are awesome. This is coming from someone who doesn't like learning from lectures.

The finals schedule is rough. People complain about that. I figure, it's med school. Every stress that I get through just preps me to better deal with the randomness of the hospital. My SP was scheduled for the same day as my Anatomy practical, which is the day before my OMM practical; it's tough, but I'm here b/c I can handle it.

Other stuff

If you approach medical school with a positive attitude, you'll do well. Keep in mind that once you get to clinicals, complaining gets you nothing. Attendings really don't care if the patient's code interferes with your dinner date.

I'm one of those who believes that VCOM is an excellent school with a good reputation among residencies, in the region as a mission-minded care provider, and in academic circles. We are still very young; we are still growing and maturing as an institution. We do all sorts of awesome fun stuff: the class gets along really well, we have parties, we have dances, we have potlucks. The SAA (family members of med students) makes us snacks during every block's finals. The school provides fruit every single day (ok, there was one day with no fruit - one in a whole year). We get grad student privleges at Tech, which means free buses around town, access to the massive library, and free gym use (and cheap classes like pilates, yoga, cycling). We have athletic competitions and fundraisers. The class officers are willing to listen to every complaint, and they too work their hardest to generate a change.

There are more things that I love about this school than I can count or remember.

2014, when you get here, will you face schedule changes? I'd bet money on it. I'm also quite certain that you are all qualified, smart and caring people who won't be bothered by that. I've heard very good things about your class and your stats. I'm 100% you will do very well in our curriculum, and those of us above you who love the school also love helping our fellow students. You'll see more of this once you get on site, but I (and others) will be happy to help you with anything that you need.

It's unfortunate that most of the students here don't troll around SDN like the dozen or so that you've read. You'd get a lot more of the postive perspective if they did. They're too busy studying.

PM me to answer specific questions. I'm sorry for writing such a lengthy reply, but I don't like it when people hate on my institution.

 

[Vita]

I'm maldabrroc's roomie, so I feel that I can just take her words and say "Yeah, me too!"

Just further support.

And one other thing - maldabrroc and I went to college together and since we have met knew that we both have different strengths and weaknesses, and that we typically have completely opposite ways of thinking things through/ learning. VCOM has allowed both of us to do very well. When they say they cater to various forms of learning, they mean it.

 

[VCOMstudent]

As I have stated in multiple posts, it is good to hear that things have gotten better with the 2013 class. I hope this improvement is because VCOM is finally satisfied with the curriculum, schedule, testing, etc. Moreover, I hope the improvement is sustained. Having said that, I do not believe that students who are unhappy with things that have gone on at VCOM are wrong simply because they stated their opinions on a public forum and disagreed with students who are overjoyed with VCOM's performance.

 

[rolltide85]

So, since the Dean DOES read these posts (or mine at least), I would like to apologize for some of my harsh comments in my original post. However, this is a public forum, and whoever posts here should be able to do so without having to worry about backlash. I did go on a trip last year at I enjoyed it. There was on incident, but I don’t think I would be classified as being “miserable.” I gained a lot of knowledge and did all that was asked of me on the trip. As far as my “practices” and “true nature”, I am “angry” at my entire situation, but don’t think for a minute that I hate the school in general. Most of my anger is a mix with some family problems that have been nagging at me for years now, and I finally have them under control. I have certain points that I dislike. My “willpower” and “desire to work” is exactly what it’s always been. I have always tried to succeed to the best of my ability, but as I mentioned above, my family issues (including the near death of my mother in a routine surgery) occupied my thoughts. I had at one point thought about requesting a temporary leave of absence, but decided not to (a mistake). Luckily, everything worked out. As far as test taking, I made one boneheaded move, and I have apologized to the Dean for that already. I finish tests fast, that’s just how it goes. I have found from personal experience that trying to reread and rethink a question doesn’t work for me, thus I go through the test once (unless there are some questions like “all of the following EXCEPT” type), and then I’m done. I could care less if people pay attention to what I say, if I say something that others don’t agree with, fine…..but I got my thoughts off my chest. I am grateful to VCOM for giving me a 2nd opportunity to succeed, but I hope they don’t think my opinions of things (basically only the curriculum at this point) will change over night. I am trying to change my attitude, but it will take more than a few months.

 

[tideleonheart]

To potential students: [ . . . ] Remember this: your education belongs to no one but YOU. You become the doctor you train to be. No school is going to spoon-feed you medicine and if they do, they are doing you a disservice..

Totally agree with this. Go look on the allopathic board or Step 1 boards. Lots of the people say things like "the best thing I did was stop going to class." And a lot of those people saying that are in top tier schools! Yes, even some Harvard professors suck. That's the whole thing: you can blame who you want for not getting your education, but everything comes down to your personal effort and diligence.

I personally do go to class some/most of the time (been going to less and less as the two years have gone on), and I feel good about my education. I have been very happy with choosing VCOM, and don't think I would have chosen a different school. Especially with the mission trips, the types of people (besides the acid spewers), and the location are all pretty awesome for me.

 

[reveille16]

So, since the Dean DOES read these posts (or mine at least), I would like to apologize for some of my harsh comments in my original post. However, this is a public forum, and whoever posts here should be able to do so without having to worry about backlash.

I hope that you haven't actually received any pressure from the Dean to retract any of your comments. If so, that is pretty scary stuff. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and the whole point of SDN is to have a place where those pursuing a medical education can speak freely (positively or negatively) about any issue.