When to apply?

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Pharm.D2020

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Preparing to graduate next month and wondering when it’s appropriate to apply for pharmacist jobs besides what my school offers at the career fairs. Clearly I’m not a licensed pharmacist yet, but am looking at job postings meant for licensed pharmacists. Is it even worth my time to apply before I’m licensed?

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If you're graduating this year then the time to interview was last fall.
 
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I interviewed with cvs/wags/Albertsons at the fall career fair. Due to covid the spring career fair was cancelled. My question was in regard to jobs posted online at indeed, zip recruiter etc. if it’s worth my time to apply before being licensed since the posting are for licensed pharmacists.
 
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I interviewed with cvs/wags/Albertsons at the fall career fair. Due to covid the spring career fair was cancelled. My question was in regard to jobs posted online at indeed, zip recruiter etc. if it’s worth my time to apply before being licensed since the posting are for licensed pharmacists.

Yes, it's not completely worthless. They will most likely not look at your application/put it on the bottom of the pile, but they may also consider you for a pharmacist graduate/intern job until you get licensed. Applying now may also make it easier for you to reapply later when you are licensed.

It may be more worthwhile to cold email and cold call employers, pharmacists active in professional organizations, your professors/preceptors, classmates that already work somewhere, etc.
 
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I interviewed with cvs/wags/Albertsons at the fall career fair. Due to covid the spring career fair was cancelled. My question was in regard to jobs posted online at indeed, zip recruiter etc. if it’s worth my time to apply before being licensed since the posting are for licensed pharmacists.
Honestly, as a new grad, it would be very difficult for you to find a job, whether licensed or not, aside from typical chains. Hospitals and independents will want experienced pharmacists. You may just have pay your dues and suffer like the rest of pharmacists and start off at the hell hole that is cvs.

I got a few emails from hospitals in my area saying they froze any hiring of new employees. Some independents near me are looking for pharmacists but theyre all for seasoned pharmacists.

Wouldnt hurt to apply but i wouldnt have my hopes up.
 
You are already kind late tbh.. Start applying now!

Good luck.
 
Honestly, as a new grad, it would be very difficult for you to find a job, whether licensed or not, aside from typical chains. Hospitals and independents will want experienced pharmacists. You may just have pay your dues and suffer like the rest of pharmacists and start off at the hell hole that is cvs.

I got a few emails from hospitals in my area saying they froze any hiring of new employees. Some independents near me are looking for pharmacists but theyre all for seasoned pharmacists.

Wouldnt hurt to apply but i wouldnt have my hopes up.
Wow career fair cancelled due to covid. That sucks. That's when you get all the emails and then you can hound them for months until an opening appears. Career fair is seriouosly important to getting a job after you graduate especially if you don't have a job lined up through "networking" already. Online apps and cold calls mean nothing. You need to get contact info. I'd look for "job openings" posted online and contact store managers where you're interested and ask for DM's contact info. Then contact them and explain your career fair was cancelled and am really interested in the company/location. Maybe they'll put you on the list to consider. Follow up every once in awhile, but don't pester them.

I don't know if the chains have implemented this policy on a national level across all stores, but I was told by the DMs for CVS and Walgreens in my area that they were no longer considering hiring new grads and now require applicants to have at least one year of retail pharmacy experience (preferably at the pharmacist level) in order to even qualify for pharmacist positions.
 
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Not national. Depends on the market. Lots of areas still enjoy hiring new grads for a significant pay cut and then churning them and repeating the same next year (for now). I would believe some places are getting so bad where they're not even willing to do this with new grads, they can get away with it with experienced RPh's now.

Desperate people make the best employees after all.

So in other words, some areas are so saturated that even the "bottom of the barrel," traditionally undesirable pharmacist positions at CVS and Walgreens are seeing lots of competition even among experienced pharmacists?
 
So in other words, some areas are so saturated that even the "bottom of the barrel," traditionally undesirable pharmacist positions at CVS and Walgreens are seeing lots of competition even among experienced pharmacists?

It's been like that for years in desirable areas.
 
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It's been like that for years in desirable areas.

The sadly ironic thing is, my area is very far off from most people's notion of a desirable area, unless you're comparing it to absolute BFE. If you do a Google search on the name of my city, several of the top results are for various "Worst Of" lists (e.g., least desirable mid-sized cities, highest crime mid-sized cities, overall most "blah" cities to live in, etc.).
 
The sadly ironic thing is, my area is very far off from most people's notion of a desirable area, unless you're comparing it to absolute BFE. If you do a Google search on the name of my city, several of the top results are for various "Worst Of" lists (e.g., least desirable mid-sized cities, highest crime mid-sized cities, overall most "blah" cities to live in, etc.).

Oh I didn't notice you said undesirable areas. Yes some "undesirable" areas are saturated too. Covid-19 has made everything worse. Script volume is down cause everyone's afraid to leave their house. Lots of retail pharmacists are worried about getting hours cut.
 
Oh I didn't notice you said undesirable areas. Yes some "undesirable" areas are saturated too. Covid-19 has made everything worse. Script volume is down cause everyone's afraid to leave their house. Lots of retail pharmacists are worried about getting hours cut.

I can only imagine how bad it must be now. I was actually told back in August by the DM for CVS in my area that they were only considering applications from either experienced retail pharmacists or CVS interns for pharmacist positions now. She had actually offered me an intern position during the same conversation. Ironically enough, I turned it down because I still had my intern job with the hospital system and because I honestly just didn't want to work for CVS. Now that I'm mere weeks away from graduating from pharmacy school without a hospital pharmacist job offer or a residency position, I'm wondering if I made a mistake by turning down the intern job offer (although the thought of working for CVS is still not at all palatable to me and I'd rather be stuck working a 7 on/7 off schedule in an overnight position at a rural BFE hospital).
 
I think you can try to apply for a grad intern position at Albertsons if there’s any posted? They usually will go to their current interns but even as a prior intern with Albertsons, you still have to be interviewed and “hired” again as a grad intern bc it’s a guaranteed position as a RPH with them assuming you pass the Boards in whatever time span they give you. At least that’s what it was like here at Safeway in the West Coast and we are part of the same company. Good luck!
 
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It will definitely be tough to land a job this year at a hospital (especially as a new grad). Hospital censuses are down around the country except for hard hit COVID hot spots. Heck, current FTEs are fighting to stay on. It is truly a depressing year.
 
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I can only imagine how bad it must be now. I was actually told back in August by the DM for CVS in my area that they were only considering applications from either experienced retail pharmacists or CVS interns for pharmacist positions now. She had actually offered me an intern position during the same conversation. Ironically enough, I turned it down because I still had my intern job with the hospital system and because I honestly just didn't want to work for CVS. Now that I'm mere weeks away from graduating from pharmacy school without a hospital pharmacist job offer or a residency position, I'm wondering if I made a mistake by turning down the intern job offer (although the thought of working for CVS is still not at all palatable to me and I'd rather be stuck working a 7 on/7 off schedule in an overnight position at a rural BFE hospital).
Should've taken the intern position with CVS. It sucks but a job is better than no job.
 
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Should've taken the intern position with CVS. It sucks but a job is better than no job.

Maybe so, but I would honestly rather pivot into another career entirely than stand for 14 hours a day at a non-stop busy CVS. I honestly can't even comprehend the thought of it.

Also, at the time when I was offered the CVS intern job, I was working all the time (sometimes 50+ hrs/wk) at my hospital intern position, so a second job wouldn't have really been feasible.
 
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There are lawyers and some in finance who work 100 hour weeks. Buckle up. You're about to collide with the free market.

Yeah but they are outliers. Most pharmacists don't work 14 hour shifts either. 8-10 hours is more common.
 
There are lawyers and some in finance who work 100 hour weeks. Buckle up. You're about to collide with the free market.

Sure, but why does that mean I should be obligated to work a job at CVS that I know I would despise? I would honestly rather take on the risks involved with pursuing another degree - such as the CS program I applied to or even a bootcamp - than work at CVS. Also, it's kind of a moot point anyways since neither CVS nor Walgreens hire new grads who don't have retail experience in my region. And before you suggest moving to BFE for a CVS job, I would only do that for a hospital or LTC position. Even though I don't actually want to live in BFE, I would be willing to do it for a job I can tolerate. But the prospect of moving to an area I don't want to live in AND working a job I'd be miserable in is just not something I can get behind.

I know that having a "no CVS" attitude is being way too picky as a non-residency trained new grad, and if that attitude results in me not being able to get a job, then I'll just pull the trigger on a CS program (which I'll likely do anyways even if I do end up finding a job, simply because it would be a no-brainer for future job security).
 
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I'm willing to take whatever job to get my foot in the door. Unsure whats going on with my prospective CVS offer. They asked me if i was interested in XYZ cities, I said sure I'd move to X city. Didn't hear anything back, so I sent a follow up expressing my interest and asking what the next steps are. Still silence, I'm hoping its corona related and their corporate is behind in hiring.
 
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There are lawyers and some in finance who work 100 hour weeks. Buckle up. You're about to collide with the free market.
They don’t do that forever. Temporary like retail.
 
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They don’t do that forever. Temporary like retail.

you’re right it’s mostly the newer folks that need to grind and cut their teeth to then navigate to a more favorable position. Much as in the case of this young chap.

He’ll have to face the music of what the real world brings to fresh meat. They may have been entitled to some govt cheddar to pay for school, but no matter the industry, a free market company is a wake up call to many. Roll up your sleeves and start grinding or keep looking for where your going to roll up your sleeves and start grinding. No experience in any professional field and you’re going to need to prove your worth. The tocks already been ticking.
 
I'm willing to take whatever job to get my foot in the door. Unsure whats going on with my prospective CVS offer. They asked me if i was interested in XYZ cities, I said sure I'd move to X city. Didn't hear anything back, so I sent a follow up expressing my interest and asking what the next steps are. Still silence, I'm hoping its corona related and their corporate is behind in hiring.

when they asked you which cities you would move to, the correct answer is all of the above... you get picky, you get no job
 
Sure, but why does that mean I should be obligated to work a job at CVS that I know I would despise? I would honestly rather take on the risks involved with pursuing another degree - such as the CS program I applied to or even a bootcamp - than work at CVS. Also, it's kind of a moot point anyways since neither CVS nor Walgreens hire new grads who don't have retail experience in my region. And before you suggest moving to BFE for a CVS job, I would only do that for a hospital or LTC position. Even though I don't actually want to live in BFE, I would be willing to do it for a job I can tolerate. But the prospect of moving to an area I don't want to live in AND working a job I'd be miserable in is just not something I can get behind.

I know that having a "no CVS" attitude is being way too picky as a non-residency trained new grad, and if that attitude results in me not being able to get a job, then I'll just pull the trigger on a CS program (which I'll likely do anyways even if I do end up finding a job, simply because it would be a no-brainer for future job security).

You gotta do what you gotta do. P4 year I got an offer at a company I really wanted to work for, but in a location in BFE no one wanted. The company pretty much exclusively only hired their own interns, and this was my one shot to get in with them, so I took it. Me and my wife moved out there, and I busted my ass as PIC to turn the store around for a year. When a much better spot opened up near my home city, I applied and got the job and have happily been there now for 3 years.

I get wanting exactly what you want starting out, but that isn't reality most times. Do whatever you can to get hired anywhere and get some experience while pursuing more desirable options, or you are going to royally eff yourself. I had a friend who decided to be picky, then as time passed with graduating and no work history, her options became less and less. After a year, she ended up having to take the job she swore she never would take anyway (ghetto CVS location).

Even if its with CVS and a bad location, you really need to land a job soon after graduation or you will quickly look unhirable anywhere, let alone those plum jobs you seem to want. You can't be picky with your first job, especially with today's RPh job market.
 
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You gotta do what you gotta do. P4 year I got an offer at a company I really wanted to work for, but in a location in BFE no one wanted. The company pretty much exclusively only hired their own interns, and this was my one shot to get in with them, so I took it. Me and my wife moved out there, and I busted my ass as PIC to turn the store around for a year. When a much better spot opened up near my home city, I applied and got the job and have happily been there now for 3 years.

I get wanting exactly what you want starting out, but that isn't reality most times. Do whatever you can to get hired anywhere and get some experience while pursuing more desirable options, or you are going to royally eff yourself. I had a friend who decided to be picky, then as time passed with graduating and no work history, her options became less and less. After a year, she ended up having to take the job she swore she never would take anyway (ghetto CVS location).

Even if its with CVS and a bad location, you really need to land a job soon after graduation or you will quickly look unhirable anywhere, let alone those plum jobs you seem to want. You can't be picky with your first job, especially with today's RPh job market.

Great advise! Unfortunately it falls on deaf ears. There's a group of people (who I honestly believe are just the same person with multiple accounts) who for some reason spam this forum with saying they're switching to computer science.
Good to hear of others who had to grind it out, but were eventually able to live where they want, with a position they want.
 
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You gotta do what you gotta do. P4 year I got an offer at a company I really wanted to work for, but in a location in BFE no one wanted. The company pretty much exclusively only hired their own interns, and this was my one shot to get in with them, so I took it. Me and my wife moved out there, and I busted my ass as PIC to turn the store around for a year. When a much better spot opened up near my home city, I applied and got the job and have happily been there now for 3 years.

I get wanting exactly what you want starting out, but that isn't reality most times. Do whatever you can to get hired anywhere and get some experience while pursuing more desirable options, or you are going to royally eff yourself. I had a friend who decided to be picky, then as time passed with graduating and no work history, her options became less and less. After a year, she ended up having to take the job she swore she never would take anyway (ghetto CVS location).

Even if its with CVS and a bad location, you really need to land a job soon after graduation or you will quickly look unhirable anywhere, let alone those plum jobs you seem to want. You can't be picky with your first job, especially with today's RPh job market.

The issue is not so much that I absolutely don't want to move to BFE; it's more about the fact that I just want to avoid retail altogether, combined with the fact that multiple people (hospital DOPs and recruiters with companies like CompHealth) have told me that if I really do want hospital, I would honestly be better off holding out for as long as possible and trying to get a BFE hospital position rather than sucking it up and taking a retail job, since the vast majority of hospital DOPs actually consider retail experience to make someone LESS competitive as an applicant.

However, I understand the point you're making when you say that the longer someone goes without getting a pharmacist job, the less hireable they become for ANY pharmacist position. So in a way, I realize this whole scenario presents an interesting catch-22: do I take a retail job and just be thankful to have a job (even if it's in a setting I despise working in) and also accept that I might just not get to work as an inpatient pharmacist, or do I keep holding out for a hospital job at the risk of potentially making myself unhireable for any pharmacist job if too much time passes with me not having a job?
 
Great advise! Unfortunately it falls on deaf ears. There's a group of people (who I honestly believe are just the same person with multiple accounts) who for some reason spam this forum with saying they're switching to computer science.
Good to hear of others who had to grind it out, but were eventually able to live where they want, with a position they want.

I'll go ahead and assume that you're referring to me being one of those people you suspect of having multiple accounts for the purpose of spamming the CS profession. This isn't the case, but obviously you're entitled to believe what you want. The initial notion of pursuing a career in CS/IT was first planted in my mind a year or two ago by a relative who works as a sys admin for Cisco, and after I lost my hospital intern job and failed to match for residency, it naturally became more prudent to me to research alternative careers, just in case.

Just curious - why is it so incredulous to you that someone with no job prospects in pharmacy might look into transitioning into a field like CS?

If you think about it objectively, anyone in my situation would inevitably come across CS when researching alternative career plans, simply because (for now, at least) the CS progression is basically at the start opposite end of the extreme as pharmacy when it comes to job market factors, outlook, etc.

Or, to put it another way, when there are well-reputed bootcamp programs (although many of them legitimately are regarded as scams) that can be completed in 3 months, cost no more than an additional semester of pharm school tuition, and boast 80%+ job placement rates AND don't obligate their graduates to move to BFE, wouldn't I be remiss to not at least consider the feasibility and general pros/cons of pursuing a career transition to CS?

I have also pondered the PA profession, although the length and cost of schooling (as well as concerns of inevitable job market saturation) make it a less appealing alternative as compared to CS. So in other words, it's not so much about pushing CS specifically; it's just that it seems to the most sensible career to pivot into when considering the schooling/prep time, opportunity cost, and job prospects.

Think about it like this: if you were a new grad who wanted an inpatient position and wanted to avoid retail at all costs, would you rather find yourself in the position next September/October of having no choice but to take a retail position in BFE (with the real possibility of never getting a hospital job), or would you rather complete a CS bootcamp program that you'd complete at around the same time and basically have your pick of non-BFE cities to live in, along with the "privelege" of being allowed to sit down and take breaks throughout the day instead of having to stand non-stop for 12-14 hrs/day and be lucky to get a few bathroom breaks?
 
The issue is not so much that I absolutely don't want to move to BFE; it's more about the fact that I just want to avoid retail altogether, combined with the fact that multiple people (hospital DOPs and recruiters with companies like CompHealth) have told me that if I really do want hospital, I would honestly be better off holding out for as long as possible and trying to get a BFE hospital position rather than sucking it up and taking a retail job, since the vast majority of hospital DOPs actually consider retail experience to make someone LESS competitive as an applicant.

However, I understand the point you're making when you say that the longer someone goes without getting a pharmacist job, the less hireable they become for ANY pharmacist position. So in a way, I realize this whole scenario presents an interesting catch-22: do I take a retail job and just be thankful to have a job (even if it's in a setting I despise working in) and also accept that I might just not get to work as an inpatient pharmacist, or do I keep holding out for a hospital job at the risk of potentially making myself unhireable for any pharmacist job if too much time passes with me not having a job?

If you're so dead set on inpatient, why didn't you do a residency? I'm trying to understand, with the obvious realities of the pharmacist job market, how you thought you would get an inpatient job without either a residency or real world RPh experience for you to stand out.

Even people doing PGY-2s aren't necessarily getting their desired jobs and/or locations anymore. Not trying to beat you up here....but what is so special about you? It just seems like you want a very specific job without putting in the necessary work to get it.

My advice is apply to any and all hospital and retail jobs you can find, and take the first job you can get. If its retail, keep applying to hospital jobs and if still no bites by later this year, start considering applying for a residency for 2021. That's no guarantee of an inpatient job either, but it is pretty much the bare minimum expected from most hospitals now for newer grads.
 
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If you're so dead set on inpatient, why didn't you do a residency? I'm trying to understand, with the obvious realities of the pharmacist job market, how you thought you would get an inpatient job without either a residency or real world RPh experience for you to stand out.

Even people doing PGY-2s aren't necessarily getting their desired jobs and/or locations anymore. Not trying to beat you up here....but what is so special about you? It just seems like you want a very specific job without putting in the necessary work to get it.

My advice is apply to any and all hospital and retail jobs you can find, and take the first job you can get. If its retail, keep applying to hospital jobs and if still no bites by later this year, start considering applying for a residency for 2021. That's no guarantee of an inpatient job either, but it is pretty much the bare minimum expected from most hospitals now for newer grads.

They didn’t get an offer for a residency. Color me surprised.
 
If you're so dead set on inpatient, why didn't you do a residency? I'm trying to understand, with the obvious realities of the pharmacist job market, how you thought you would get an inpatient job without either a residency or real world RPh experience for you to stand out.

Even people doing PGY-2s aren't necessarily getting their desired jobs and/or locations anymore. Not trying to beat you up here....but what is so special about you? It just seems like you want a very specific job without putting in the necessary work to get it.

My advice is apply to any and all hospital and retail jobs you can find, and take the first job you can get. If its retail, keep applying to hospital jobs and if still no bites by later this year, start considering applying for a residency for 2021. That's no guarantee of an inpatient job either, but it is pretty much the bare minimum expected from most hospitals now for newer grads.

Like PharFromNormal sardonically pointed out below, I applied to but didn't match with any residency programs. However, I did work as an intern throughout pharmacy school for a hospital network that routinely hired their interns for staffing positions until a residency grads-only policy was implemented in 2019. Ironically enough, when I was first hired I had actually replaced an intern who had just graduated and was hired on by the hospital network in a 7 on/7 off second shift position. So really, I think it's a combination of factors that will likely make it impossible for me to get a hospital staffing position (job market, timing, policy changes that mandate the hiring of only residency-trained grads, etc.).

However, the fact that you suggested applying to residency programs next year sort of justifies my motivation for at least considering a career switch. Think about it: completion of a year of grueling residency training has become the de facto criteria just to obtain an entry-level staffing position in a hospital - and even after meeting that criteria, it's still going to take the willingness to move to BFE for possibly years just to get that entry-level job.

I'm kind of in the unique situation of being what most people would consider to be an "old" student who made some bad decisions early on that have resulted in me not getting my ish together for a formal career until now. It's kind of hard to explain, but at this point I'd like to just be able to get a decent-paying job in a locale that at least isn't BFE. That's it. That's why I'm trying to figure out whether I would honestly rather spend an additional three months and relatively paltry sum of money (compared to the cost of pharmacy school) to complete a bootcamp program where I'd at least be graduating into a job market where I'd be able to get a decent job in a decent city (I'm not talking NT/SF/SD/Boston/Miami - just a non-BFE city that is pleasant enough to live in).

Again, it's kind of hard to explain, but the notion of reapplying to residencies, completing one (if I match), and THEN moving to BFE to live/work for an undetermined amount of time just sounds like a lot more kicking-the-can-down-the-road than I'd like to do at this point.
 
They didn’t get an offer for a residency. Color me surprised.

So the fact that I don't want to work a retail job and would rather take any inpatient or LTC I can get reflects negatively (in your opinion) on my overall character, work ethic, etc. to the extent that you think it says something about why I didn't match?

I think that your post really speaks to just how dire the job market situation is in pharmacy. If someone simply states that they have an honest preference to avoid working in a certain type of practice setting and are willing to go anywhere and work any shift in order to avoid that setting, they find themselves on the receiving end of character judgments that characterize them in a wholly negative manner.

Just out of curiosity, what's your idea of the "right" mentality to have? The willingness to take a retail position wherever I can get one and accepting/acknowledging that to have any sort of preference over the matter is akin to being entitled, lazy, having a poor work ethic, etc.?
 
So the fact that I don't want to work a retail job and would rather take any inpatient or LTC I can get reflects negatively (in your opinion) on my overall character, work ethic, etc. to the extent that you think it says something about why I didn't match?

I think that your post really speaks to just how dire the job market situation is in pharmacy. If someone simply states that they have an honest preference to avoid working in a certain type of practice setting and are willing to go anywhere and work any shift in order to avoid that setting, they find themselves on the receiving end of character judgments that characterize them in a wholly negative manner.

Just out of curiosity, what's your idea of the "right" mentality to have? The willingness to take a retail position wherever I can get one and accepting/acknowledging that to have any sort of preference over the matter is akin to being entitled, lazy, having a poor work ethic, etc.?

 

Interesting article. I did a web search for the author's name, and it looks like he obtained a software developer job right around the time he finished the bootcamp program:


He started his first job in May 2018 and started a job as a lead developer with another company in October 2018. That's a pretty quick climb up the ladder.
 
I'm just confused why OP entered pharmacy school in 2016 if he wanted to become a hospital pharmacist without a residency or putting in his dues at retail? It was well known in the early 2010s that hospital jobs were hard to get without residency, and that the match rate for residencies was very competitive. A simple Google search would have provided that information - or he could have just asked us here as a prepharm. That is a very high risk move. That's like betting 200k on a 1 in 5 shot, high risk low reward. I graduated in 2014 and the residents at my internal med rotation site in the spring did not have any jobs lined up.

Many "clinical" pharmacists have had hours cut or have been reassigned as dispensing pharmacists during this pandemic, so it's not all that glamorous.
 
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I'm just confused why OP entered pharmacy school in 2016 if he wanted to become a hospital pharmacist without a residency or putting in his dues at retail? It was well known in the early 2010s that hospital jobs were hard to get without residency, and that the match rate for residencies was very competitive. A simple Google search would have provided that information - or he could have just asked us here as a prepharm. That is a very high risk move. That's like betting 200k on a 1 in 5 shot, high risk low reward. I graduated in 2014 and the residents at my internal med rotation site in the spring did not have any jobs lined up.

Many "clinical" pharmacists have had hours cut or have been reassigned as dispensing pharmacists during this pandemic, so it's not all that glamorous.

I'm not the OP, but I'll assume you're referring to me and my posts. When I started pharmacy school in 2016, it was still possible to get an inpatient staffing (I.e., dispensing/order entry) pharmacist job throughout much of the southeast if you were willing to be flexible about shift and location (like I said in a previous post, the guy who I replaced as an intern was offered a second shift position upon his graduation from pharmacy school). It seems to only have started to be the case within the past 1-2 years that now that residency completion is a requirement even for basic staffing jobs in rural towns. FWIW, none of the 3 pharmacists I worked with regularly back when I had my hospital intern job completed residencies.
 
I'm not the OP, but I'll assume you're referring to me and my posts. When I started pharmacy school in 2016, it was still possible to get an inpatient staffing (I.e., dispensing/order entry) pharmacist job throughout much of the southeast if you were willing to be flexible about shift and location (like I said in a previous post, the guy who I replaced as an intern was offered a second shift position upon his graduation from pharmacy school). It seems to only have started to be the case within the past 1-2 years that now that residency completion is a requirement even for basic staffing jobs in rural towns. FWIW, none of the 3 pharmacists I worked with regularly back when I had my hospital intern job completed residencies.

But we’re you unaware that this was the trend elsewhere in the country or for some reason did you think that area would be immune to the trends?

Also FWIW I know many hospital pharmacists (more than 3) including directors that started in retail and value candidates with retail experience.

Regarding my residency comment to you, I think it’s apparent that you are very interested in satisfying what your wants and needs are. I can definitely see people not giving you a position if these traits come through in interview. Employers (including residency directors) want people that are willing to do all the work that is asked of them, not just the work they want to do. Do you have anything on your resume that screams “damn that must have been hard work and probably not a lot of fun but they stuck through it, got great results and did it with a smile.” I’m guessing not but genuinely curious.

TBH no matter your career path I wish you the best. You’re probably going to want to be self-employed regardless of your occupation.
 
But we’re you unaware that this was the trend elsewhere in the country or for some reason did you think that area would be immune to the trends?

Also FWIW I know many hospital pharmacists (more than 3) including directors that started in retail and value candidates with retail experience.

Regarding my residency comment to you, I think it’s apparent that you are very interested in satisfying what your wants and needs are. I can definitely see people not giving you a position if these traits come through in interview. Employers (including residency directors) want people that are willing to do all the work that is asked of them, not just the work they want to do. Do you have anything on your resume that screams “damn that must have been hard work and probably not a lot of fun but they stuck through it, got great results and did it with a smile.” I’m guessing not but genuinely curious.

TBH no matter your career path I wish you the best. You’re probably going to want to be self-employed regardless of your occupation.

No, my residency application wasn't particularly impressive; I had decided to apply to residency programs at practically the last minute, so the only two bullet points on my app were my hospital intern work experience and a single leadership position.

So the fact that I want to avoid retail comes across as me being focused on satisfying my own wants and needs and nothing else? That is literally the one and only preference I have expressed having. When I have talked to recruiters and hospital DOPs about potential hospital staffing positions, I have told them that I'd be willing to go anywhere, work any shift, and work all major and minor holidays. When I worked as an intern, I accommodated multiple last minute requests for me to come in on days techs abruptly called in, and I also worked all holidays and the vast majority of weekends without complaining.

That's why I'm surprised that you said it sounds like I'm focused on satisfying my own wants and needs. All I said is that I wanted to avoid retail and that I'd be willing to go anywhere and work any schedule for a basic staffing position.

... On the other hand, could it be a testament to just how brutally competitive the job market is that having any preference at all regarding a job comes across as entitled and self-serving?
 
So the fact that I want to avoid retail comes across as me being focused on satisfying my own wants and needs and nothing else?

Yes. 70-80% of all pharmacists are employed by retail. Many who don't work in retail started there. Why go to pharmacy school then? The fact that you won't even consider taking any retail position is a huge red flag. It screams "princess" to be honest. It's called work for a reason. If you want to be paid twice the income of the average household then you have to earn it. Retail pharmacists are still making more than RNs in the Covid-19 infested ICUs. Retail pharmacy is really not that horrible as a stepping stone.
 
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I reject the assertion that it’s been in the past two years that hospital jobs have gotten competitive. The writing has been on the wall since before I finished pharmacy school on that one.
 
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Yes. 70-80% of all pharmacists are employed by retail. Many who don't work in retail started there. Why go to pharmacy school then? The fact that you won't even consider taking any retail position is a huge red flag. It screams "princess" to be honest. It's called work for a reason. If you want to be paid twice the income of the average household then you have to earn it. Retail pharmacists are still making more than RNs in the Covid-19 infested ICUs. Retail pharmacy is really not that horrible as a stepping stone.

In that case, maybe I just need to honestly reflect on my own motivating factors and character and consider the potential late-breaking revelation that maybe pharmacy isn't the best fit for me.

What about the other pharmacists who didn't complete residencies and chose to preferentially apply to hospital positions and were able to obtain them? Are they entitled "princesses" as well? Or is an anti-retail (and anti-BFE retail especially) preference only considered to be a character flaw when someone is presented with no other opportunity? Sort of like in a "you-learn-what-someone's-character-is-really-like-when-the-going-gets-tough" sort of way?

I just can't believe that having that one specific preference now counts as a red flag. I guess you either take what you can get in this profession or risk blacklisting yourself as someone with legitimate character flaws?

Back when I had my hospital intern job, the pharmacists had talked about having me take over after Bob (not his real name) the weekend pharmacist retired, which he had originally planned to do around the time I'd be graduating. The job would've only been part-time for 20 hours per week, would have paid no benefits, and would have required me to work all weekends and many holidays. He ended up retiring early and the hiring policy was changed to "residency grads only" around the same time, so I obviously wasn't offered the job like they had talked about doing. However, if they had offered it to me, I would've graciously accepted it, showed up on time every weekend, and never complained.

That's why I'm beginning to realize that pharmacy may not be for me, and not in the sense that the actual work itself isn't for me, but in the sense that the nature of what someone has to be willing to do in order to get a job may not be something I'm up for. I can understand not expecting to get the ideal job right out of school, but to have no other prospects aside from moving to a rural locale in the middle of nowhere to work in some retail sweatshop?

I'm just not sure if that's something I want to do when I have the option of completing a three-month bootcamp program in CS that will lead to infinitely more job offers.

And here's the thing -- if I end up doing a CS bootcamp, I'm not going to expect to get hired on as some superstar lead dev at Facebook, Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc.; rather, I would expect to be considered for (and be happy with) an entry-level job in a medium-sized city making decent money (I.e., not Bay Area riches) as a staff programmer. That's it.

Actually, now that I think about it, I think my CS job analogy above speaks to why I have grown increasingly disenchanted with pharmacy in recent months. While I would never expect to start off with a unicorn job regardless of what profession I choose, at the same time I can also unashamedly say that I'd hope to have at least a few options besides the one that is objectively considered to be the worst job of the respective profession, whether that's pharmacy or anything else. At the very least, I think I'd rather pursue a career in a profession where simply having a preference to not want the worst job out there isn't considered to be indicative of a character flaw.
 
What about the other pharmacists who didn't complete residencies and chose to preferentially apply to hospital positions and were able to obtain them? Are they entitled "princesses" as well? Or is an anti-retail (and anti-BFE retail especially) preference only considered to be a character flaw when someone is presented with no other opportunity? Sort of like in a "you-learn-what-someone's-character-is-really-like-when-the-going-gets-tough" sort of way?
work in some retail sweatshop?

Is "preference" really the best description? That implies that you'd take the position even if it's not really where you want to be. It's pretty obvious that you look down on retail positions which is why you come off as a "princess"

You've already dismissed ~70% of available positions and are now strongly considering leaving (or never truly joining?) the profession because things didn't work out how you wanted. I agree that "princess" seems like an accurate description.
 
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Is "preference" really the best description? That implies that you'd take the position even if it's not really where you want to be. It's pretty obvious that you look down on retail positions which is why you come off as a "princess"

You've already dismissed ~70% of available positions and are now strongly considering leaving (or never truly joining?) the profession because things didn't work out how you wanted. I agree that "princess" seems like an accurate description.

I don't "look down" on retail pharmacists, just as I don't look down on nurses, even though I could never do a job that involves being so (literally) hands-on with patients in regards to cleaning up body fluids, crap, bathing patients, etc. Just because I could never imagine doing their work, it doesn't mean that I'm also belittling nurses and turning my nose up at them. Just as I recognize that nurses play a vital role as healthcare professionals, I realize that retail pharmacists provide value as well. It's just a matter of me not enjoying the work, and moreso about me not wanting to move to a location I'd hate living in to work a job I wouldn't enjoy. Moving to a location I'd hate living in for a decent job is one thing, but moving to a location I'd hate living in AND taking a job I wouldn't enjoy is just something I can't get motivated for. (For the record, moving to BFE for a chain retail pharmacist position would actually be my only option for starting my pharmacist career as new grads who don't have retail experience aren't being hired by the chains in my area anymore - this is directly from the CVS and Walgreens DMs).

I'd like to ask you something, if you don't mind. Is it possible for a pharmacy school graduate to not want to work retail and not have their character, work ethic, motives, and various other personality traits called into question? Or is the nature of the job market such that someone literally cannot afford to be picky and that any mindset that deviates from "I'll take whatever I can get" thereby portrays them in an unfavorable light?

One of my friends from undergrad is a PA who worked for a short time for an orthopedic surgery group. He said the money was great but that the surgeons also worked him like a dog. He got tired of working the long hours and taking lots of call, so he applied and was hired for a job as an ER PA with a much cushier schedule and a comparable salary. So since he decided that he didn't want to work a job that included certain elements he considered to be undesirable and subsequently left his job for one that accommodates more of his preferences, would that also make him an entitled princess?

If having a preference (or "criterion" or "standard" or whatever term you want to use, if we're playing semantics here - I think you know what I mean) regarding the type of pharmacist job I'd like to have - even though I'm flexible about literally every other factor - is all it takes to be labeled an entitled brat, then I don't know what to say. I guess I'm just going to have to decide if the risks inherent to spending an additional three months in a bootcamp program and an extra $10k-$18k on tuition are worth taking in exchange for the apparent "privelege" of being able to exercise some degree of preference over the kind of career I'd like to have.

Again, keep in mind that the only thing I did to warrant character judgments (not to mention a cute new nickname) being leveled against me is say that I want to avoid working in retail, will go literally anywhere and work any schedule to have an inpatient position, and would probably rather spend a few more months in school transitioning into a different career if middle-of-nowhere retail truly is my only option.
 
I'm not the OP, but I'll assume you're referring to me and my posts. When I started pharmacy school in 2016, it was still possible to get an inpatient staffing (I.e., dispensing/order entry) pharmacist job throughout much of the southeast if you were willing to be flexible about shift and location (like I said in a previous post, the guy who I replaced as an intern was offered a second shift position upon his graduation from pharmacy school). It seems to only have started to be the case within the past 1-2 years that now that residency completion is a requirement even for basic staffing jobs in rural towns. FWIW, none of the 3 pharmacists I worked with regularly back when I had my hospital intern job completed residencies.

I graduated in 2016 in Texas, and I have family and pharmacy friends in the SE.....I can tell you when I graduated, almost everyone still needed to complete a residency in both Texas and the general SE for any sort of inpatient job. The job market was already grim, and almost everyone in my graduating class weren't getting a full 40 hours a week starting out.

People that got hospital jobs out of school with no residency were the exception to the rule, even then. Once again, not trying to beat you up here, but the writing was already on the wall when you started pharmacy school.

If you refuse retail and refuse to consider having to reapply for residency, chalk this all up to another bad life decision (a six figure one at that) and pursue something else. Just know you will eventually have to actually make a solid career decision and no matter the field, it probably won't be exactly what you want. I have plenty of CS/tech friends that hate their jobs, too and/or are constantly having to jump from contract job to contract job to stay afloat.

People are going at you pretty hard, and I get being defensive, but see it from our side. Someone posts they want a difficult to get inpatient hospital job, but without a residency. It is revealed later on that applying to residency was a last minute after thought, and that the person's resume was pretty bare and unimpressive, resulting in them, unsurprisingly, not getting a residency.

Once reality hits that hospitals aren't lining up to hire that person, they state they refuse to work in the "sweatshop" that is retail, nor will they consider reapplying for residency to get the job they desire the following year. The "princess" moniker isn't coming from wanting a specific job, it is coming from wanting a specific, harder to get job without putting in any sort of real effort to obtain it. It makes you come off as entitled and lazy, tbh.

I'm not trying to be a jerk and I wish you well, but just giving you an honest impression based off your posts in this thread. Hopefully you find what you're looking for. I wish the RPh job market was better and we all could get the jobs we want, but that just isn't reality (and it hasn't been reality since before you started school).

Do what's best for you, but I personally think it is bonkers to dump 4+ years and all that money into something to just immediately give up when actual effort has to be put in to get what you want. I don't criticize you for being picky, but for refusing to do whats necessary to be able to be picky. Gluck.
 
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I graduated in 2016 in Texas, and I have family and pharmacy friends in the SE.....I can tell you when I graduated, almost everyone still needed to complete a residency in both Texas and the general SE for any sort of inpatient job. The job market was already grim, and almost everyone in my graduating class weren't getting a full 40 hours a week starting out.

People that got hospital jobs out of school with no residency were the exception to the rule, even then. Once again, not trying to beat you up here, but the writing was already on the wall when you started pharmacy school.

If you refuse retail and refuse to consider having to reapply for residency, chalk this all up to another bad life decision (a six figure one at that) and pursue something else. Just know you will eventually have to actually make a solid career decision and no matter the field, and it probably won't be exactly what you want. I have plenty of CS/tech friends that hate their jobs, too and/or are constantly having to jump from contract job to contract job to stay afloat.

I'm not trying to be a jerk and I wish you well. Hopefully you find what you're looking for.

Thanks. I agree that it is slowly becoming apparent that this may very well end up being my most damning "bad" life decision yet. Obviously I lended too much significance to what the job market was like in my area when I first started pharmacy school in 2016 (I live in a relatively undesirable area, and at the time new grads were still hired for inpatient jobs), and I apparently extrapolated what the market was like here to other areas. Of course, now it's all a moot point as the market here is now so saturated that even if I DID want a chain retail job, I wouldn't be able to get one because I made the (yet another) mistake of only holding an inpatient intern job and not a retail one.

So that's another thing... even if I did suddenly decide I wanted to work as a retail pharmacist, I have no idea where I'd look for jobs. I'm assuming that the only districts for which the chains hire new grads are in BFE regions of midwestern states?

I just wanted to comment on the statement you made about how some of your tech industry friends don't like their jobs. I think what's so ironic here is that I'm not expecting that CS/data science/cybersecurity/whatever is going to be an idyllic career with no downsides whatsoever. It's like I said in one of my previous posts - if I can get an entry-level CS job in a somewhat desirable city (I'm not talking SF, Seattle, NYC, Boston, etc.) that pays fairly well and isn't as miserable of a job as retail pharmacy, I'll be satisfied. If I can get something even better than that, then I'll have achieved my goal and then some, although I'm not counting on anything.

To put it another way, I just want at least a semblance of personal preference and flexibility when it comes to the setting I'll be working in, the area I'll live in, etc. It's not that I want the absolute best job in the most desirable city and which happens to pay the most money... but at the same time, I don't want to be in the position of having virtually no options other than the absolute worst job, either. Obviously and based on the responses I've gotten in this thread, wanting to have even just a modicum of preference over those factors as someone in the pharmacy profession is so unrealistic that it comes across as audacious.
 
the sense that the nature of what someone has to be willing to do in order to get a job may not be something I'm up for.

Then you don't want to be an inpatient pharmacist that bad (you just kind of want it). Despite policy changes at your internship, nothing is guaranteed unless its in writing. You still have a chance to get what you want, you just need to grind and earn that chance with longevity and not expect short-term results. That means working at a BFE retail site to earn experience. Do not start drinking the common cup that once you do retail you're automatically at a 0% chance of getting a hospital job. You're only at 0% when you refuse to work in any setting for the longevity of time

He got tired of working the long hours and taking lots of call, so he applied and was hired for a job as an ER PA with a much cushier schedule and a comparable salary. So since he decided that he didn't want to work a job that included certain elements he considered to be undesirable and subsequently left his job for one that accommodates more of his preferences, would that also make him an entitled princess?

No it wouldn't. He "worked" to gain experience and collected a check while looking for an opportunity that might come his way. Once he found one, he transitioned out and took the opportunity. We all have undesired corners when it comes to work and location. The goal is to earn your way out of it with time and experience.

It's like I said in one of my previous posts - if I can get an entry-level CS job in a somewhat desirable city (I'm not talking SF, Seattle, NYC, Boston, etc.) that pays fairly well and isn't as miserable of a job as retail pharmacy, I'll be satisfied.

This is the definition of the "American Dream." Job in a tolerable city with decent pay to reach satisfaction. Again though, you had to of known the situation of pharmacy back in 2016 and that the majority is in retail positions and that chances are, you'd have to start out in BFE retail. You rolled the dice and didn't get the drop you needed. Yet its still not too late but you have decided to move along and not give it a chance.

Despite all of this and not wanting to tear you down (truthfully), I do highly suggest you take the first offer in retail just for the sake of the following:

1) Relieve your student debt. Without this, you'll have little money to really do anything even in a city.
2) Build up a savings account. Emergencies happen and you don't want to be down the same rabbit hole if something happens during your CS goals.

However, if you wont act before even starting in pharmacy, you might as well pursue the career change now and ignore any opportunity cost. I do wish you luck & hope this decision is indeed the best one for you. Who knows, you might not like working in a hospital as a pharmacist to begin with and this is your ticket to pivot out of the scene altogether.
 
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Again, keep in mind that the only thing I did to warrant character judgments (not to mention a cute new nickname)

First I want to clarify that nothing that I've said was meant to be a personal attack. I am not questioning your character or work ethic and while I can't speak for any other members, from how I've read the other responses, I don't think they really are either.

I really do wish you the best. You have to make a difficult decision and no matter what you choose I do hope you end up with a career that makes you happy.

I'd like to ask you something, if you don't mind. Is it possible for a pharmacy school graduate to not want to work retail and not have their character, work ethic, motives, and various other personality traits called into question? Or is the nature of the job market such that someone literally cannot afford to be picky and that any mindset that deviates from "I'll take whatever I can get" thereby portrays them in an unfavorable light?

But if you do actually want my opinion, sure.

There's nothing wrong with not wanting to work retail. Plenty of pharmacists don't and for valid reasons. But I think that being entirely unwilling to is a different story, especially if you've done nothing to really set yourself apart from other graduates/pharmacists.

Looking at it somewhat objectively: you went to pharmacy school (hopefully) knowing that the majority of positions were retail. It should have been obvious that residencies may be required before you graduate. You still didn't differentiate yourself from your peers and when policies changed, you were caught flat-footed and rather than trying to take a position that you are qualified for, you're immediately quitting the profession. Can you blame us for pointing out that you come across as somewhat entitled?
 
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Just to give you a little bit of hope, I graduated seven years ago. I had always wanted to work at the VA in an inpatient setting. I didn't do a residency and ended up working retail for seven years, always watching USAJOBS and applying 45 times to various roles. I hated retail 99% of the time but it paid the bills and gave me experience. Finally a job opportunity opened up and I was able to, with the help of some of my previous preceptors at said VA, secure an inpatient job. It is possible, you just have to deal with crap you don't want to do for a while.
 
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Thanks. I agree that it is slowly becoming apparent that this may very well end up being my most damning "bad" life decision yet. Obviously I lended too much significance to what the job market was like in my area when I first started pharmacy school in 2016 (I live in a relatively undesirable area, and at the time new grads were still hired for inpatient jobs), and I apparently extrapolated what the market was like here to other areas. Of course, now it's all a moot point as the market here is now so saturated that even if I DID want a chain retail job, I wouldn't be able to get one because I made the (yet another) mistake of only holding an inpatient intern job and not a retail one.

So that's another thing... even if I did suddenly decide I wanted to work as a retail pharmacist, I have no idea where I'd look for jobs. I'm assuming that the only districts for which the chains hire new grads are in BFE regions of midwestern states?

I just wanted to comment on the statement you made about how some of your tech industry friends don't like their jobs. I think what's so ironic here is that I'm not expecting that CS/data science/cybersecurity/whatever is going to be an idyllic career with no downsides whatsoever. It's like I said in one of my previous posts - if I can get an entry-level CS job in a somewhat desirable city (I'm not talking SF, Seattle, NYC, Boston, etc.) that pays fairly well and isn't as miserable of a job as retail pharmacy, I'll be satisfied. If I can get something even better than that, then I'll have achieved my goal and then some, although I'm not counting on anything.

To put it another way, I just want at least a semblance of personal preference and flexibility when it comes to the setting I'll be working in, the area I'll live in, etc. It's not that I want the absolute best job in the most desirable city and which happens to pay the most money... but at the same time, I don't want to be in the position of having virtually no options other than the absolute worst job, either. Obviously and based on the responses I've gotten in this thread, wanting to have even just a modicum of preference over those factors as someone in the pharmacy profession is so unrealistic that it comes across as audacious.

I’m not sure what you are looking for from the crowd here. If you want to leave pharmacy do it. You become another story of a someone that went into the profession (or was almost there?) that shouldn’t have because they didn’t understand the realities of the profession and job market. Most of us on here post non-stop trying to prevent students from making the same wrong decisions as you. I don’t think the profession as a whole gets stronger by gaining people that would categorically leave the profession before trying a different practice setting if that was their only option.

You want to start ditching the entitled vibe your giving off and starting gaining some likes here? Use your story of making a horrible decision because you didn’t know the realities of the profession to prevent other young students from joining that shared your ignorance.
 
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Moral of the story, don't go to pharmacy school if you're unwilling to work retail.
 
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Then you don't want to be an inpatient pharmacist that bad (you just kind of want it). Despite policy changes at your internship, nothing is guaranteed unless its in writing. You still have a chance to get what you want, you just need to grind and earn that chance with longevity and not expect short-term results. That means working at a BFE retail site to earn experience. Do not start drinking the common cup that once you do retail you're automatically at a 0% chance of getting a hospital job. You're only at 0% when you refuse to work in any setting for the longevity of time



No it wouldn't. He "worked" to gain experience and collected a check while looking for an opportunity that might come his way. Once he found one, he transitioned out and took the opportunity. We all have undesired corners when it comes to work and location. The goal is to earn your way out of it with time and experience.



This is the definition of the "American Dream." Job in a tolerable city with decent pay to reach satisfaction. Again though, you had to of known the situation of pharmacy back in 2016 and that the majority is in retail positions and that chances are, you'd have to start out in BFE retail. You rolled the dice and didn't get the drop you needed. Yet its still not too late but you have decided to move along and not give it a chance.

Despite all of this and not wanting to tear you down (truthfully), I do highly suggest you take the first offer in retail just for the sake of the following:

1) Relieve your student debt. Without this, you'll have little money to really do anything even in a city.
2) Build up a savings account. Emergencies happen and you don't want to be down the same rabbit hole if something happens during your CS goals.

However, if you wont act before even starting in pharmacy, you might as well pursue the career change now and ignore any opportunity cost. I do wish you luck & hope this decision is indeed the best one for you. Who knows, you might not like working in a hospital as a pharmacist to begin with and this is your ticket to pivot out of the scene altogether.

First of all, I don't think your analogy that compares the career trajectory of the PA I know to that of some pharmacists' is really accurate. First of all, orthopedic surgery PA jobs are actually considered to be highly desirable to many PAs (largely because of the $$$), and it's not considered to be a universally undesirable "stepping stone" job that new graduate PAs take because they realize they have to pay their dues in order to get a "better" job. He (and the vast majority of PAs who take jobs in orthopedic surgery) applied for the job because he was interested in orthopedic surgery and wanted to make lots of money. After he became burned out from the intense schedule, he decided to apply for a job as an ER PA that offered similar pay to his orthopedic surgery job but for a much more humane schedule.

In other words, he didn't apply for the orthopedic surgery job because he realized he needed to start at the bottom, and at the same time, transitioning from his orthopedic surgery job to his ER job wasn't a vertical (I.e., upwards trajectory) move - most PAs would consider it to be a lateral move. In fact, I know another guy from undergrad who graduated a few years ago from South U's PA program in Savannah, GA who took an ER position as his first PA job out of school.

Basically, the point I'm trying to make is that those guys chose to apply to the jobs they applied to upon graduation because they had specific preferences in mind regarding the kind of medicine they wanted to practice and where they wanted to work. From what they've told me, if a PA is flexible regarding location, they can get a job in pretty much any specialty. The only exception might be dermatology, which they tell me has gotten very competitive in recent years.

I think a more accurate analogy would be to compare the situation of a PA who graduates into a saturated job market and has no options aside from working for a high volume pediatrics practice that involves seeing 30+ patients per day, getting practically no breaks during the day, having to take call and/or stay late multiple nights per week, and earning a significantly below-average salary (pediatrics PAs actually do earn the lowest salaries of all PAs on average). After "getting over themselves" and grinding through that miserable job for a few years, they leverage that experience to apply for a relatively cushy dermatology PA job that receives 50+ applications, pays 2x the money and a better benefits package, and doesn't require them to take any call.

Anyways, I know you said that it's not necessarily true that working as a retail pharmacist always makes someone unhireable for hospital positions, but I can tell you that at the hospitals in my area, it does. This is coming directly from the DOP of the hospital system I used to work for as well as from pharmacists who work at the other hospital in town.

There's a pharmacist who has worked inpatient at one of the local hospitals for several decades, and her husband has both outpatient hospital pharmacy experience as well as experience working for Walgreens, and even he can't get a basic staffing position despite being married to one of hospital's veteran inpatient pharmacists.

The scary thing about this is that I don't live in what most people would call a desirable area, so if the hospitals in my crappy city consider retail pharmacists to be branded by the "scarlet letter," then how far into BFE would you actually have to go to find a hospital that *would* be willing to hire a pharmacist with only retail experience?

BTW, I'm surprised that people consider my mentality of potentially wanting to transition into CS to sound entitled because I look at it like this: there are numerous risks associated with completing a CS bootcamp program, such as the very real possibility of failing out, simply not liking coding as a full-time endeavor, not being able to keep up with the pace of the course, etc. So if anything, I'd expect people to have a reaction more along the lines of, "If you're unhappy with your prospects in pharmacy and are willing to assume the risks associated with doing a bootcamp program, then just know that you're not guaranteed an ideal outcome with CS either." Or something like that. (There's probably a better way to word it, but it's just not coming to me right now.)
 
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Moral of the story, don't go to pharmacy school if you're unwilling to work retail.

Yes, absolutely. I'd even tack on an addendum to rewrite your statement as, "Don't go to pharmacy school if you're unwilling to work retail in rural BFE if you don't get a retail intern/tech position during pharmacy or match with a residency program."
 
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