Which would you rather go to?

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I'd choose...

  • Harvard

    Votes: 58 22.8%

  • Hopkins

    Votes: 29 11.4%

  • WashU

    Votes: 15 5.9%

  • Penn

    Votes: 19 7.5%

  • UWash

    Votes: 13 5.1%

  • UCSF

    Votes: 40 15.7%

  • Duke

    Votes: 21 8.3%

  • Stanford

    Votes: 35 13.8%

  • UCLA

    Votes: 24 9.4%
  • Total voters
    254
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Tie between Harvard, Penn, and Columbia (if it was on the list). I want to pursue a dual degree (or at least take non-med classes), and these schools provide a plethora of opportunities with professional schools everywhere. 😀

I am a California resident and I know that UCSF is great, but for my goals/ambitions: UCSF = lacking. 🙁
 
any of those sounds good 😀
 
Honestly I would go for my state's private school coz it's good yet very cheap.
 
longhorn09 said:
Honestly I would go for my state's private school coz it's good yet very cheap.
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After financial aid, isn't Stanford at least as cheap? The average debt of Stanford Med grads is like $80k - the lowest in the country aside from the military one.
 
randombetch said:
After financial aid, isn't Stanford at least as cheap? The average debt of Stanford Med grads is like $80k - the lowest in the country aside from the military one.
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Stanford is out of my reach...I was talking about the reality.
 
randombetch said:
As I suspected, WashU is the least favored among those top med schools. Too bad I forgot to include Columbia and Yale!
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I interviewed at WashU and I absolutely despised it. I went to Penn the Friday beforehand, and it was just so much better in every single way. Honestly, I simply cannot believe that they are tied in the rankings. Penn is that much better. UCSF was also WAY better than WashU. That's just my opinion though...
 
ApoK said:
I interviewed at WashU and I absolutely despised it. I went to Penn the Friday beforehand, and it was just so much better in every single way. Honestly, I simply cannot believe that they are tied in the rankings. Penn is that much better. UCSF was also WAY better than WashU. That's just my opinion though...
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And it has nothing to do w/ STL? You just dont like the school? WashU left me a good impression on my interview day.
 
ApoK said:
I interviewed at WashU and I absolutely despised it. I went to Penn the Friday beforehand, and it was just so much better in every single way. Honestly, I simply cannot believe that they are tied in the rankings. Penn is that much better. UCSF was also WAY better than WashU. That's just my opinion though...
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maybe its cuz the rankings dont mean much...
 
Yay for whoever said Vandy should be on that list! And no, it's not redneck land...

If I had to do this all over again and I'd gotten into those 9 schools, I would have picked UCSF hands-down and that's after having lived and worked at Stanford for 2 years. Don't get me wrong, I liked Stanford a lot and it's a great place, but objectively speaking, UCSF >> Stanford in all ways but the weather.
 
longhorn09 said:
And it has nothing to do w/ STL? You just dont like the school? WashU left me a good impression on my interview day.
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STL definitely was part of it... horrible city. Minneapolis and Chicago are really the only good cities in the Midwest, IMO.

My problem was that I was directly comparing everything to UCSF and Penn, since they were my prior 2 interviews. The facilities at WashU are okay, but definitely not spectacular or overly impressive. The curriculum is really, really old-fashioned IMO.

Additionally, I didn't feel like the students were incredibly happy like I felt at other schools. Maybe this is just me, but I felt like students here were a bit more competitive and less outgoing compared with any of the coastal schools. When I was at Penn, I was out with students a few nights for their monthly exam. At WashU, students were stressfully studying even when there wasn't an exam for several weeks.

Also, the students seem to match heavily into Barnes-Jewish across all specialties. I could not imagine living in STL for 10+ years. Penn, in particular, had as impressive a match list as does Harvard or Hopkins.

Nevertheless, one thing I thought was excellent about WashU were the anatomy labs. They were really top notch.
 
ButImLETired said:
Yay for whoever said Vandy should be on that list! And no, it's not redneck land...

If I had to do this all over again and I'd gotten into those 9 schools, I would have picked UCSF hands-down and that's after having lived and worked at Stanford for 2 years. Don't get me wrong, I liked Stanford a lot and it's a great place, but objectively speaking, UCSF >> Stanford in all ways but the weather.
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Nashville is redneck-ish but actually not THAT bad (e.g. it's not South Carolina :laugh:). However, if you go a mile outside of the city, be prepared for all kinds of hickishness. Realistically though, who would choose Vandy over any of those schools in the poll? Vanderbilt is really for excellent students who either got full scholarships to Vandy or didn't get into the top school of their choice.
 
ApoK said:
Also, the students seem to match heavily into Barnes-Jewish across all specialties. I could not imagine living in STL for 10+ years. Penn, in particular, had as impressive a match list as does Harvard or Hopkins.
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i still dont think looking at match lists gives you a feel for anything. there are faces, desires that range from location to specialty, exam scores, rec letters, region etc. that goes into the process. who knows, maybe the most competitive applicant ever wanted to match in the least competitive residency because thats what he/she wanted to do. plus, as a premed, how the hell do i know what a match list really means?
 
ApoK said:
Nashville is redneck-ish but actually not THAT bad (e.g. it's not South Carolina :laugh:). However, if you go a mile outside of the city, be prepared for all kinds of hickishness. Realistically though, who would choose Vandy over any of those schools in the poll? Vanderbilt is really for excellent students who either got full scholarships to Vandy or didn't get into the top school of their choice.
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Uuh well I appreciate your opinion, but I have 4 classmates (who didn't get a full ride) that turned down Hopkins, 2 that turned down UCSF and UCLA, 1 that turned down Hopkins, Harvard, Penn, and Wash U and actually a bunch that turned down Wash U for that matter.
So cool that you'd think that, but...."realistically"...you're wrong. Sorry.

Oh and btw, have you ever ventured a mile out of the borders of a lot of cities in the US? Cause it might not be southern hickish land, but I'll take the kindly rural people of TN over people who live in some of the towns outside of NYC, Boston, Philly, etc. Ever heard of the Jersey Shore? Yeah...
 
JasonE said:
i still dont think looking at match lists gives you a feel for anything. there are faces, desires that range from location to specialty, exam scores, rec letters, region etc. that goes into the process. who knows, maybe the most competitive applicant ever wanted to match in the least competitive residency because thats what he/she wanted to do. plus, as a premed, how the hell do i know what a match list really means?
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That's one thing, and it has nothing to do with whether people wanted to stay where they were because they *gasp!* liked it, or had made contacts there, or just felt that it was the best place for them.

Honestly, I have no idea what the "best" residency places are. It depends on what specialty you want, and what you want out of your residency. Want to get great clinical training? Great research? Work in an inner city environment? Want the ivory tower? Want to work with rarer cases vs the more common ones? Etc etc. And of course then you have considerations such as personal life (uprooting everything), and whether you want to be in a place that's known to have very malignant residents and such. These are just SOME of the considerations. Matching in your home institution doesn't tell you much, and it especially says nothing when it's an institution like Barnes-Jewish, cause it's an amazing hospital. It's as if saying a kid who does med school at Hopkins and goes on to do neurosurgery at Hopkins is an idiot. Um, no....or he GOT INTO HIS TOP CHOICE.
 
ButImLETired said:
Uuh well I appreciate your opinion, but I have 4 classmates (who didn't get a full ride) that turned down Hopkins, 2 that turned down UCSF and UCLA, 1 that turned down Hopkins, Harvard, Penn, and Wash U and actually a bunch that turned down Wash U for that matter.
So cool that you'd think that, but...."realistically"...you're wrong. Sorry.

Oh and btw, have you ever ventured a mile out of the borders of a lot of cities in the US? Cause it might not be southern hickish land, but I'll take the kindly rural people of TN over people who live in some of the towns outside of NYC, Boston, Philly, etc. Ever heard of the Jersey Shore? Yeah...
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So you're telling me these people didn't get any financial assistance from Vandy? I find it hard to believe people would turn down those schools for Vanderbilt without any merit aid. For one, they could just tell the Vandy adcom they're accepted at Harvard/Hopkins/Penn and I'm sure they'd get scholarships of some sort. 30k per year is still enough to entice people away from top 5 schools. Also, I understand people choosing Vandy over WashU. They're similar schools, and WashU is really overrated.

If by some chance someone was actually stupid enough to turn down those schools even though they were the same price, then we know exactly why they're at Vandy. They're not that bright. :laugh: jk, Vandy is great school (see above post). You can't possibly be arguing it's in the same league as the top 5 schools though. It just isn't.

Also, you shouldn't be so hypersensitive when someone comments about Vandy as not being the greatest school ever and that the south has issues with racism. Clearly, either you're overreacting or Vandy is actually the best medical school and racism in the south isn't actually that bad.
 
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JasonE said:
i still dont think looking at match lists gives you a feel for anything. there are faces, desires that range from location to specialty, exam scores, rec letters, region etc. that goes into the process. who knows, maybe the most competitive applicant ever wanted to match in the least competitive residency because thats what he/she wanted to do. plus, as a premed, how the hell do i know what a match list really means?
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Fair enough. I believe many incredible students go to WashU. I don't mean to denigrate the students that go there. It's just life is different on the coasts vs. the midwest. STL and WashU are very midwest.
 
ApoK said:
So you're telling me these people didn't get any financial assistance from Vandy? I find it hard to believe people would turn down those schools for Vanderbilt without any merit aid. For one, they could just tell the Vandy adcom they're accepted at Harvard/Hopkins/Penn and I'm sure they'd get scholarships of some sort. 30k per year is still enough to entice people away from top 5 schools.

If by some chance someone was actually stupid enough to turn down those schools even though they were the same price, then we know exactly why they're at Vandy. They're not that bright. :laugh: jk, Vandy is great school (see above post). You can't possibly be arguing it's in the same league as the top 5 schools though. It just isn't.
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I am indeed saying that they came here instead of those places. I don't know if they're getting a minor scholarship or financial assistance, but I know they're not getting one of the full-ride "named" scholarships. Believe me or not, I don't care. I'm not arguing anything, I'm telling you that you're wrong. I don't know what "league" you're talking about or why Harvard is in it and according to a premed we are not, but suffice it to say, not everyone agrees with you. Some people use criteria for picking their schools that have nothing to do with the exact amount of money NIH gives or what place made them feel most self-important. Then again, you didn't get in here, so I guess you never did get to make that choice (though I'm sure you never wanted to come here in the first place, right?).

Anyways, I'm out of this mess, since it's not the point of the thread at all. I'll just go back to my two-bit semi-academic institution since all this smart people talk has given me a headache, and leave the premeds to really evaluate medical school. Y'all are so smart.
 
ButImLETired said:
I am indeed saying that they came here instead of those places. I don't know if they're getting a minor scholarship or financial assistance, but I know they're not getting one of the full-ride "named" scholarships. Believe me or not, I don't care. I'm not arguing anything, I'm telling you that you're wrong. I don't know what "league" you're talking about or why Harvard is in it and according to a premed we are not, but suffice it to say, not everyone agrees with you. Some people use criteria for picking their schools that have nothing to do with the exact amount of money NIH gives or what place made them feel most self-important. Then again, you didn't get in here, so I guess you never did get to make that choice (though I'm sure you never wanted to come here in the first place, right?).

Anyways, I'm out of this mess, since it's not the point of the thread at all. I'll just go back to my two-bit semi-academic institution since all this smart people talk has given me a headache, and leave the premeds to really evaluate medical school. Y'all are so smart.
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Overreacting. Hypersensitive.

I believe you with regard to your classmates. I can't say I understand why people make irrational decisions. The Harvard brand alone translates directly to higher earning potential and a larger, more powerful alumni network. If you think you have equivalent opportunities at Vandy (or really almost any other institution) as at Harvard, you are sadly mistaken.
 
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Of the list, top one would be Penn--for many reasons. 👍 Go U of P!
 
bannie22 said:
Perhaps. But outside of the west coast, Stanford is much more popular.

And if I'm picking a school, any random school, then it gotta be popularity.

My friend (A) once asked another friend (B) when we were all having lunch.

A: Do you know what school bannie22 is interviewing at?
B: UofT?
A: No think around the world!!!
B: Harvard? Stanford?

Nuff said. :laugh:

In fact, one of my other friends turned down UPitt dental interview to attend a NYU interview because NYU is more reknowned outside of the States...

Whether that was smart or not is not the question, but where would non-west coasters pick? Stanford.


*Start another poll rbetch! get Columbia in here and Yale too.
Cali is overrepresented...
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I've heard NYU dental isn't that great. My sister was offerred a full scholarship there but chose UCSF dental instead. Their med school on the other hand - I would love to go there.
 
ApoK said:
So you're telling me these people didn't get any financial assistance from Vandy? I find it hard to believe people would turn down those schools for Vanderbilt without any merit aid. For one, they could just tell the Vandy adcom they're accepted at Harvard/Hopkins/Penn and I'm sure they'd get scholarships of some sort. 30k per year is still enough to entice people away from top 5 schools. Also, I understand people choosing Vandy over WashU. They're similar schools, and WashU is really overrated.

If by some chance someone was actually stupid enough to turn down those schools even though they were the same price, then we know exactly why they're at Vandy. They're not that bright. :laugh: jk, Vandy is great school (see above post). You can't possibly be arguing it's in the same league as the top 5 schools though. It just isn't.

Also, you shouldn't be so hypersensitive when someone comments about Vandy as not being the greatest school ever and that the south has issues with racism. Clearly, either you're overreacting or Vandy is actually the best medical school and racism in the south isn't actually that bad.
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Where are you coming up with all of this? Some people choose where to attend school based on which one they like the best instead of looking at a set of arbitrary rankings.
 
ApoK said:
Additionally, I didn't feel like the students were incredibly happy like I felt at other schools. Maybe this is just me, but I felt like students here were a bit more competitive and less outgoing compared with any of the coastal schools. When I was at Penn, I was out with students a few nights for their monthly exam. At WashU, students were stressfully studying even when there wasn't an exam for several weeks.

Also, the students seem to match heavily into Barnes-Jewish across all specialties. I could not imagine living in STL for 10+ years. Penn, in particular, had as impressive a match list as does Harvard or Hopkins.

Nevertheless, one thing I thought was excellent about WashU were the anatomy labs. They were really top notch.
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As other people mentioned, I don't think you can read too much into match lists, but for what it's worth (since it seemed like you were implying that a large percentage of WashU people stayed at WashU while Penn seemed to branch out more), I just looked at WashU and Penn's match lists and noticed that ~30% from WashU stayed at WashU (33/117 last year), whereas 35% (50/142 -- I left out prelim matches) from Penn stayed at Penn.

That being said, I interviewed at both and had similar impressions regarding the students. The WashU kids I met seemed sort of oddly immature/young, but it's probably unfair to completely judge a school based off the 10 students I talked to.

ApoK said:
I also voted for Penn!
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Whaaaat? But you could could argue that:
ApoK said:
The Harvard brand alone translates directly to higher earning potential and a larger, more powerful alumni network. If you think you have equivalent opportunities at Vandy (or really almost any other institution) as at Harvard, you are sadly mistaken.
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😛 I'm just joking around
 
ApoK said:
Overreacting. Hypersensitive.

I believe you with regard to your classmates. I can't say I understand why people make irrational decisions. The Harvard brand alone translates directly to higher earning potential and a larger, more powerful alumni network. If you think you have equivalent opportunities at Vandy (or really almost any other institution) as at Harvard, you are sadly mistaken.
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Data? Actually, if you become a physician anywhere NEAR the Harvard hospitals you'll make less money than people who live elsewhere. Academia also leads to a lessened earning potential. Considering the fact that the only actual "resources" Harvard has that top everyone else's (according to NIH and USNews, I guess) is extra research funding, if you go to Harvard and don't go into academia and use that lovely research money, you're literally "wasting" those resources. And you become yet another private practice physician, in which case you could have gone absolutely anywhere and it would have made absolutely no difference. And as I said, if you use those "resources" and stay in academia at the "best hospitals" (also Harvard) your earning potential is lessened. So I don't really see your point.

Would saying that I go to Harvard Med get a few more "oohs and aahs"? Sure. But med school isn't like law school, and where you go barely matters. According to the NRMP the school name is like the 9th consideration in the list of things residency directors look at. Research helps, and great LORs help, but you can get those if you don't go to Harvard. Want to meet people at those hospitals and maybe get a residency there later? You can do away rotations. And then you can get your precious Harvard residency, work in a Harvard hospital and wear crimson every day while making less than the people who aren't working in a Harvard hospital and who don't live in a city as expensive as Boston. And oh by the way, I worked in a Harvard hospital so I'm not making this up. And for what it's worth, a lot of those residencies are known to be really malignant, and I've met a LOT of doctors here that escaped Harvard to have a nicer, more relaxed lifestyle and a more chill staff.

But hey, you and I clearly define success and happiness differently. To you, it seems to mean what sticker on your car will elicit the more "you're so smart!". Whatever helps you sleep at night.
 
ButImLETired said:
Academia also leads to a lessened earning potential.
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That's not true. Academicians earn less, yes, but that doesn't lower their earning potential. Larry Summers, after resigning from being President of Harvard, worked at DE Shaw on Fridays only and earned $5 million a year not too long ago.

Any big name economist from Academia can go to Wall St. and make bank. Likewise, a big name professor of chemical engineering can make bank if he or she chooses to work for a pharmaceutical company. They just choose not to because it's not as satisfying for them.
 
Morsetlis said:
You can finish an MBA in a year, in an online learning course with 4 weeks of campus attendance.
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Part of the MBA experience stems from interacting and networking with professors and colleagues and participating in internships, IMO. Online classes aren't going to cut it (for me, anyways).
 
randombetch said:
That's not true. Academicians earn less, yes, but that doesn't lower their earning potential. Larry Summers, after resigning from being President of Harvard, worked at DE Shaw on Fridays only and earned $5 million a year not too long ago.

Any big name economist from Academia can go to Wall St. and make bank. Likewise, a big name professor of chemical engineering can make bank if he or she chooses to work for a pharmaceutical company. They just choose not to because it's not as satisfying for them.
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I agree. Also...

Actually, if you become a physician anywhere NEAR the Harvard hospitals you'll make less money than people who live elsewhere.
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Now, it is time for you to produce data. If this is true, I wonder why that would be so?
 
Medgirl55 said:
I've heard NYU dental isn't that great. My sister was offerred a full scholarship there but chose UCSF dental instead. Their med school on the other hand - I would love to go there.
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Yea, I dont know about dental schools, but yeah what I'm saying is that I believe Pitts is better than NYU for dental (just because they are better in med!) but my friend still decided on NYU instead...

So the "prestige" of a school, is related to where you are located...

Anyway... considering how UCSF is also better in med than NYU (by a billion times)

I would be surprised if you picked NYU over UCSF😛

Congrats to your sister!!!! 😀
 
ButImLETired said:
Data? Actually, if you become a physician anywhere NEAR the Harvard hospitals you'll make less money than people who live elsewhere. Academia also leads to a lessened earning potential. Considering the fact that the only actual "resources" Harvard has that top everyone else's (according to NIH and USNews, I guess) is extra research funding, if you go to Harvard and don't go into academia and use that lovely research money, you're literally "wasting" those resources. And you become yet another private practice physician, in which case you could have gone absolutely anywhere and it would have made absolutely no difference. And as I said, if you use those "resources" and stay in academia at the "best hospitals" (also Harvard) your earning potential is lessened. So I don't really see your point.

Would saying that I go to Harvard Med get a few more "oohs and aahs"? Sure. But med school isn't like law school, and where you go barely matters. According to the NRMP the school name is like the 9th consideration in the list of things residency directors look at. Research helps, and great LORs help, but you can get those if you don't go to Harvard. Want to meet people at those hospitals and maybe get a residency there later? You can do away rotations. And then you can get your precious Harvard residency, work in a Harvard hospital and wear crimson every day while making less than the people who aren't working in a Harvard hospital and who don't live in a city as expensive as Boston. And oh by the way, I worked in a Harvard hospital so I'm not making this up. And for what it's worth, a lot of those residencies are known to be really malignant, and I've met a LOT of doctors here that escaped Harvard to have a nicer, more relaxed lifestyle and a more chill staff.

But hey, you and I clearly define success and happiness differently. To you, it seems to mean what sticker on your car will elicit the more "you're so smart!". Whatever helps you sleep at night.
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I'm not speaking for myself when I reply to your posts. I choose to go to a state school for undergrad over an elite school due to a full-ride and because I thought I'd be going to med school anyway.

Anyway, I'm making the point that there is a distinction in people's perception with regard to your "brand." The Harvard brand is incredibly strong and it's perception outside of academia is ubiquitous. Ask people in the midwest or out west if they'd heard of Vandy vs. if they've heard of Harvard. People who have attended harvard (or institutions with national prestige) can leverage their brand value of their institution to farther in their career. You say it won't matter where you attend if you go into private practice?? :laugh: Is a HMS trained doc going to get fewer patients than one who is DO or went to the carbib? An extreme example, but the answer is obviously Hell no. The HMS doctor will have more networking opportunities and can use the HMS brand to get more patients through the door. Translation: higher earning potential.


Here's a paper that discusses brand equity in capital valuation:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=8b4bcb4af4d7909b422dd4220ac2d312

Brand matters. It's a fact of life.
 
ApoK said:
Overreacting. Hypersensitive.

I believe you with regard to your classmates. I can't say I understand why people make irrational decisions. The Harvard brand alone translates directly to higher earning potential and a larger, more powerful alumni network. If you think you have equivalent opportunities at Vandy (or really almost any other institution) as at Harvard, you are sadly mistaken.
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hah, where are you getting that info from? do you have the salaries from all harvard alums vs vandy alums? you cant be serious right? after all, where you go to medical schools means little, its more about residency. even then that is variable. i know a neurosurgeon who rakes in more $ then anyone i know, and he didnt go to a top 5 med school or even a top rated residency.

i can almost guarantee you when you finally get a job, the doctors around you will be from everywhere, some not even from US med schools. i havent seen any money flowing sanctuary where only harvard alums are allowed to go.
 
ApoK said:
STL definitely was part of it... horrible city. Minneapolis and Chicago are really the only good cities in the Midwest, IMO.

My problem was that I was directly comparing everything to UCSF and Penn, since they were my prior 2 interviews. The facilities at WashU are okay, but definitely not spectacular or overly impressive. The curriculum is really, really old-fashioned IMO.

Additionally, I didn't feel like the students were incredibly happy like I felt at other schools. Maybe this is just me, but I felt like students here were a bit more competitive and less outgoing compared with any of the coastal schools. When I was at Penn, I was out with students a few nights for their monthly exam. At WashU, students were stressfully studying even when there wasn't an exam for several weeks.

Also, the students seem to match heavily into Barnes-Jewish across all specialties. I could not imagine living in STL for 10+ years. Penn, in particular, had as impressive a match list as does Harvard or Hopkins.

Nevertheless, one thing I thought was excellent about WashU were the anatomy labs. They were really top notch.
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how did you see their match list? i thought it wasn't made available
 
randombetch said:
That's not true. Academicians earn less, yes, but that doesn't lower their earning potential. Larry Summers, after resigning from being President of Harvard, worked at DE Shaw on Fridays only and earned $5 million a year not too long ago.

Any big name economist from Academia can go to Wall St. and make bank. Likewise, a big name professor of chemical engineering can make bank if he or she chooses to work for a pharmaceutical company. They just choose not to because it's not as satisfying for them.
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This is the exact point BUTImLET doesn't see. People who come from Harvard are generally impressive people and that perception applies to anyone who attends there. I would argue you have the greatest earning potential bump if you don't go into academics following a school like HMS. People in science tend to undervalue the effect of marketing or other non-hardcore science disciplines. They're so empirical about everything ("Data?") when it's so abundantly obvious that brands do in fact matter. Do you drink Diet Coke or Diet Rite? Do you prefer Mercedes or a Toyota? Hmmm...
 
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ElegantWeapon said:
how did you see their match list? i thought it wasn't made available
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I got it in one of their informational packets early on. I might have also gotten it on interview day, but I'm not sure about that...
 
ApoK said:
This is the exact point BUTLET doesn't see. People who come from Harvard are generally impressive people and that perception applies to anyone who attends there. I would argue you have the greatest earning potential bump if you don't go into academics following a school like HMS. People in science tend to undervalue the effect of marketing or other non-hardcore science disciplines. They're so empirical about everything ("Data?") when it's so abundantly obvious that brands do in fact matter. Do you drink Diet Coke or Diet Rite? Do you prefer Mercedes or a Toyota? Hmmm...
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ya but you are forgetting people dont choose doctors based on where they went to medical school (at least no one i know). you got to the doctor your insurance lets you see/thats closest to you. so its not the same type of competition.
 
Harvard has 4 plastic surgeons. (most recent matchlist)


$$$ cow.
 
bobsmith said:
As other people mentioned, I don't think you can read too much into match lists, but for what it's worth (since it seemed like you were implying that a large percentage of WashU people stayed at WashU while Penn seemed to branch out more), I just looked at WashU and Penn's match lists and noticed that ~30% from WashU stayed at WashU (33/117 last year), whereas 35% (50/142 -- I left out prelim matches) from Penn stayed at Penn.

That being said, I interviewed at both and had similar impressions regarding the students. The WashU kids I met seemed sort of oddly immature/young, but it's probably unfair to completely judge a school based off the 10 students I talked to.
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The WashU statistic should include the 8 students at STL Children's, 3 at "washington university," and 1 at SLU. So it's actually closer to 45/117 (38%) matched to "home" institution. Nevertheless, I was actually pretty wrong about that compared to Penn. I guess I came away more impressed with Penn's list because most students matched to Penn or "better." At WashU, it seems like students go all over the midwest in places I personally wouldn't prefer or aren't better than WashU. Yeah, my fault. Match lists are always dicey when making comparisons, it's good to get a feel for where most of the students go afterwards (i.e. at least for networking purposes).
 
JasonE said:
ya but you are forgetting people dont choose doctors based on where they went to medical school (at least no one i know). you got to the doctor your insurance lets you see/thats closest to you. so its not the same type of competition.
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Not for private practice or out of pocket stuff. Like dermatology or plastics. I agree it's a more nebulous area. Also, for medical device consulting. It helps a lot to have a big name behind you, as well as some solid research.
 
ApoK said:
Nevertheless, I was actually pretty wrong about that compared to Penn. I guess I came away more impressed with Penn's list because most students matched to Penn or "better."
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you gotta be careful with that. whats "best" for medical schools isnt true for residency.for example ( i could be wrong about this but ive heard it), the "best" place for opthamology is supposed to be UMiami. so if you saw that on a list and said, "thats ****", you'd be mistaken
 
DrYoda said:
I'd probably pick penn for the shortened pre-clinical curriculum. If I was going to pick for location:UWash.
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+1. This is huge draw. I would have applied to Columbia and Hopkins too had I known they adopted a similar curriculum. It's so much better for students/matching.
 
ApoK said:
The WashU statistic should include the 8 students at STL Children's, 3 at "washington university," and 1 at SLU. So it's actually closer to 45/117 (38%) matched to "home" institution. Nevertheless, I was actually pretty wrong about that compared to Penn. I guess I came away more impressed with Penn's list because most students matched to Penn or "better." At WashU, it seems like students go all over the midwest in places I personally wouldn't prefer or aren't better than WashU. Yeah, my fault. Match lists are always dicey when making comparisons, it's good to get a feel for where most of the students go afterwards (i.e. at least for networking purposes).
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Sorry to harp on this point since it seems like we agree on the dicey-ness of match lists, but I think they actually included Children's/WashU/Barnes in the 33/117 statistic (as indicated at http://medschool.wustl.edu/admissions/ResidencyAppointmtsTable2008Final.doc, the other link also mentions that their 32 count has *Duplicate entries for Barnes-Jewish Hospital, St. Louis Children's Hospital, and Washington University)
 
ApoK said:
Not for private practice or out of pocket stuff. Like dermatology or plastics. I agree it's a more nebulous area. Also, for medical device consulting. It helps a lot to have a big name behind you, as well as some solid research.
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anyone can open a private practice, and still, insurance is the name of the game. you go where your insurance is accepted. and i would imagine the vast majority of doctors dont operate out of pocket. no point in comparing a small minority where even there, where you go wouldnt be a deal breaker. there are plenty of derms/plastic surgeons who dont go to harvard and make just as much money if not more
 
JasonE said:
you gotta be careful with that. whats "best" for medical schools isnt true for residency.for example ( i could be wrong about this but ive heard it), the "best" place for opthamology is supposed to be UMiami. so if you saw that on a list and said, "thats ****", you'd be mistaken
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Yeah, agreed. In general though, Hopkins, Harvard, Penn, Duke and Stanford are not bad places to do residency (for quality of education; they might be malignant - cough, Duke Surgery). I actually have heard of UMiami as one of the best for Ophtho, but I think Hopkins Eye and Ear is actually the top program.
 
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