WildZenge Presents: Horizon Zero DaWWn

[WildZoo]

Part of why I was choking so much on the Mel vote was because I couldn’t decide if it might be to my advantage to keep him around if he was a wolf, but I was moderately concerned he’d try to kill me and I wanted to keep that death avoidance as long as possible.

I think (and I could be remembering wrong) he said if April had gone down instead of him, he would have killed you that night. Which would have just used up your death avoidance, and perhaps he would have been voted out the next day anyway, and nothing really would have changed since no one was suspicious of the vig with a death avoidance anyway

I often find there are confusing points when game designs play out where the abilities I expect to be suspicious are not and the ones that I would have a harder time balancing for wolves are suspect.

And of course I say myself that I like to disrupt assumptions of affiliation based on abilities, and I do, but boy village actually could have used a good mechanics tinfoiler at the end there to figure out that Mel and cubs having the abilities they had within the same pack didn't make a whole lot of sense lol

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[WildZoo]

But I digress. My definitions of deepwolf vs powerwolf come down to

Deepwolf: the wolf that infiltrates the village core by acting in village interest, even at the technical expense of their own wincon, i.e. at the expense of their packmates, and/or at the expense of using their abilities in suboptimal ways, simply so they can be seen to be as village as possible

Powerwolf: the wolf that creates the village core around themselves and always acts in their own wolfy interest, still managing to make village believe it is for their benefit

I think there's a spectrum between the two rather than a stark line, and some players will lean more one way or the other even over the course of a single game.

Honestly I'd characterize shorty's play here as tantamount to villaging until the other wolves were dead, and then powerwolfing. She basically directed every action that occured on night 5 so it would work in her favor. That ain't no deepwolf **** lol

 

[Animal Midwife]

By my definition of deep wolf....

So take Cubs for example. He's basically never going to make it into town bloc because by tone alone he'll probably never get that widely town read, so no matter how many fellow wolves he busses, he never gets into the bloc. He can be a bussing wolf, but likely never deep. He could still win or make it to end game, but probably not by good "unnoticed" or without sus.

Then take you. You never bus. But you can still easily make into town bloc based on all the rest. You could be a deep wolf without bussing.

You definitely don't have to get super far within the bloc or even in the bloc at all to be a successful powerwolf or deepwolf. You just have to stay out of yeeting range in the POE or neutrals so because you only need to trick the village for a limited amount of time due to your extreme behavior. Doesn't matter if you're outted the second the game is mechanically a wolf win if village can't stop you.

 

[supershorty]

Doesn't matter if you're outted the second the game is mechanically a wolf win if village can't stop you.

I really thought about blatantly open wolfing after cubs' yeet since I was mechanically unstoppable at that point, but decided the ****posting back and forth with you was more fun

 

[Animal Midwife]

I really thought about blatantly open wolfing after cubs' yeet since I was mechanically unstoppable at that point, but decided the ****posting back and forth with you was more fun

That's mainly why I leaned into the bragging. I knew even if it was somehow April, I had deeply lost so might as well accept the only outcome I said my plan could create.

 

[supershorty]

That's mainly why I leaned into the bragging. I knew even if it was somehow April, I had deeply lost so might as well accept the only outcome I said my plan could create.

Well, I'm glad you did. It was fun

 

[supershorty]

ASK YOUR MOM​

Who is @Aprilthearab's mom anyway? SAR?

 

[Animal Midwife]

Who is @Aprilthearab's mom anyway? SAR?

Indeed.

 

[supershorty]

Indeed.

Ah, then asking her would be extra appropriate, as another lone wolf winner of a Dubz game.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Ah, then asking her would be extra appropriate, as another lone wolf winner of a Dubz game.

She even ran a lone wolf speed game once!

 

[Crayola227]

I think (and I could be remembering wrong) he said if April had gone down instead of him, he would have killed you that night. Which would have just used up your death avoidance, and perhaps he would have been voted out the next day anyway, and nothing really would have changed since no one was suspicious of the vig with a death avoidance anyway

I often find there are confusing points when game designs play out where the abilities I expect to be suspicious are not and the ones that I would have a harder time balancing for wolves are suspect.

And of course I say myself that I like to disrupt assumptions of affiliation based on abilities, and I do, but boy village actually could have used a good mechanics tinfoiler at the end there to figure out that Mel and cubs having the abilities they had within the same pack didn't make a whole lot of sense lol

I think that did get pointed out for being OP. I hate to say we didn't have a tinfoiler because most of these possibilities I presented or questioned at some point. Someone else I think questioned if it was OP.

 

[Crayola227]

But I digress. My definitions of deepwolf vs powerwolf come down to

Deepwolf: the wolf that infiltrates the village core by acting in village interest, even at the technical expense of their own wincon, i.e. at the expense of their packmates, and/or at the expense of using their abilities in suboptimal ways, simply so they can be seen to be as village as possible

Powerwolf: the wolf that creates the village core around themselves and always acts in their own wolfy interest, still managing to make village believe it is for their benefit

I think there's a spectrum between the two rather than a stark line, and some players will lean more one way or the other even over the course of a single game.

Honestly I'd characterize shorty's play here as tantamount to villaging until the other wolves were dead, and then powerwolfing. She basically directed every action that occured on night 5 so it would work in her favor. That ain't no deepwolf **** lol

I agree with this more than saying she didn't deep wolf because she didn’t bus or wasn't part of the pack and was another faction of scum.

And as Thingyman used it and I've seen in other forums, "deep wolf" can apply as a term to mafia or other factions of scum.

To me, a deep wolf is not likely to be caught on the basis of anything but extremely suspicion, paranoia, continually re-eval and testing.

 

[Crayola227]

You definitely don't have to get super far within the bloc or even in the bloc at all to be a successful powerwolf or deepwolf. You just have to stay out of yeeting range in the POE or neutrals so because you only need to trick the village for a limited amount of time due to your extreme behavior. Doesn't matter if you're outted the second the game is mechanically a wolf win if village can't stop you.

I would agree with you that you don't have to make it far in the bloc to deep wolf or power wolf, the latter part of your statement is more important. Probably fair to say the focus on deep wolves being in the town bloc is how much damage they do (Shorty this game).

I totally and utterly disagree that an outted wolf can still be a deep wolf. Maybe that was true prior to outting but not after. Unless you mean the deep wolf isn't really discovered until it's too late to stop them. Sure, then they deep wolfed until it doesn't matter to win, I guess.

And I think you can be a deep wolf and a power wolf. I think Dubz pulls this off quite often, and you have as well.

 

[supershorty]

This is the first game in a long while where I have had no night actions done to me for the entire game.

Just realized that the only other time this has happened to me (in a non basics game) was the other time I wolfed. Hmm.

 

[supershorty]

Also, for anyone’s entertainment:

Spoiler: shorty has a mental breakdown N4

N4: shorty kills Cray

I'll do the write up part later.

With the eradication of the main pack, you can now kill every night. Good luck!

oh f uc k

shorty villaged too hard and now she has to wolf

I might change this

This being my nk obviously

N4: shorty kills AM

not sure exactly how I'm going to pull this off at this point but I think this is my best shot for framing TME

No

N4: shorty doesn't kill anyone

PANIK

No

N4: shorty kills Cray

get rid of that blocker

otherwise I'm just going to panic every night worrying about the blocker

no

N4: shorty doesn't kill anyone

faaaaaack I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THIS ANYMORE

I VILLAGED TOO WELL AND BEAT MYSELF

Ok no I should definitely kill someone

N4: shorty kills Cray

FINAL ANSWER I HOPE

what if shorty shoots shorty instead

JUST FINISHING OUT MY GOOD KILLS/VCA, DUBZ

N4: shorty kills April

Sorry Lawp but I think I have to do this

Don’t listen to this, decided not to

I really doubt I’m going to make it to a win with me vs 6 people so I might as well just ride it as long as I can before I go down.

Damn. I really thought there might be an extra wolf with how stacked the village PRs are.

N4 shorty doesn’t kill anyone final answer

noted

**** I really should kill one of them shouldn’t I

Is it too late to switch

Nope but I do need to get things rolling ASAP. I did say I'd give you guys until 9 though, so you have 7 minutes.

shorty kills TME

It’s been a long time since I wolfed, and last time I had help (and wolfators) so it was distinctly less scary 😂

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

Also, for anyone’s entertainment:

Spoiler: shorty has a mental breakdown N4

This being my nk obviously

It’s been a long time since I wolfed, and last time I had help (and wolfators) so it was distinctly less scary 😂

Wow rude, you went from trying to frame me to killing me

 

[supershorty]

Wow rude, you went from trying to frame me to killing me

Alternatively, I did you a favor by switching from a prolonged death to a quick one

 

[WildZoo]

Alternatively, I did you a favor by switching from a prolonged death to a quick one

This though. Night kill >>>>>>>>> Misyeet

 

[Animal Midwife]

I just finally processed that both Zenge and shorty killed genny as an opposing scum faction and I cleared them solely because of her flip.

 

[Lawpy]

I just finally processed that both Zenge and shorty killed genny as an opposing scum faction and I cleared them solely because of her flip.

protect genny

 

[Crayola227]

What I love about WW, is that rarely are things black and white. Even something that seems obviously village, like killing a wolf, can't be taken for granted.

 

[WildZoo]

I just finally processed that both Zenge and shorty killed genny as an opposing scum faction and I cleared them solely because of her flip.

Smh AM, you should know better. You were there for Afterparty. You fired the gun.

 

[supershorty]

I just finally processed that both Zenge and shorty killed genny as an opposing scum faction and I cleared them solely because of her flip.

This came up in my role PM after I did it, but Zenge didn’t claim killing her until after he was already a stump. I thought he’d claimed the kill, but he said he had not and I had to go pull quotes to confirm.

Spoiler: Role PM snippets

I helped village! I shot genny! I killed a wolf!

wait a sec, where have I heard this before

Okay but Pippy was legitimately a danger. The goo would have killed us all.

But you also killed wolf!genny in that game and tried to use it for village cred.

No I didn’t

That’s not what I recall happening 🤔

Also I didn’t lie about Genny. I just didn’t check her affiliation, instead I killed her. And she was a wolf. So...you’re welcome.

Ok, it wasn’t quite what I remembered bc you claimed you seered her and then didn’t come forward with this until after you were a stump. So seems like we both misremembered.

…sorry genny

 

[supershorty]

I just finally processed that both Zenge and shorty killed genny as an opposing scum faction and I cleared them solely because of her flip.

Idk if this will make you feel better or worse, but you were saying I was clear before you even knew I had shot her. My staying parked on the vote was enough.

 

[Animal Midwife]

This came up in my role PM after I did it, but Zenge didn’t claim killing her until after he was already a stump. I thought he’d claimed the kill, but he said he had not and I had to go pull quotes to confirm.


…sorry genny

I swear it was before stumping and he said he "seered" her. That's why I ended up not yeeting him in time.

By the time he said the truth, it was long too late to get out the punishment whip.

 

[genny]

This came up in my role PM after I did it, but Zenge didn’t claim killing her until after he was already a stump. I thought he’d claimed the kill, but he said he had not and I had to go pull quotes to confirm.


…sorry genny

The secret plot to kill me for village cred won’t work anymore because it’s not a secret.

 

[supershorty]

I swear it was before stumping and he said he "seered" her. That's why I ended up not yeeting him in time.

By the time he said the truth, it was long too late to get out the punishment whip.

I like how Zenge gets the whip and I get the react lmao

 

[Zenge142]

I swear it was before stumping and he said he "seered" her. That's why I ended up not yeeting him in time.

By the time he said the truth, it was long too late to get out the punishment whip.

Okay but no. April shot you and she died, and then Pippy role revealed as the Electric Black Goo Death Cult, minutes before close. Village wasn’t going to vote anywhere else.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Okay but no. April shot you and she died, and then Pippy role revealed as the Electric Black Goo Death Cult, minutes before close. Village wasn’t going to vote anywhere else.

OMG the April clearing too!

 

[supershorty]

Night 1

I'm really earning my best flavor writer award so far this game...
~insert writeup snazziness here, in a few hours...~​

in a few hours...​

a few hours...​

Inflation was becoming a problem last year and we all missed the warning signs, smh.

 

[WildZoo]

Inflation was becoming a problem last year and we all missed the warning signs, smh.

Oof why you gotta call me out like that, I'm just trying to exist

 

[supershorty]

Oof why you gotta call me out like that, I'm just trying to exist

Just procrastinating on my own procrastination method while I think about how my champs qualifier death still has no flavor and never will.

 

[supershorty]

Oof, AM hitting me with so many sad reacts, I might as well add her to my role PM so I can just be crushed to death under them.

 

[Lawpy]

Tot pls