Yale vs. Columbia

[costadelsol]

What do you guys think? I'm in the very fortunate position of choosing between these two schools, but I'm completely undecided between them. Costs are exactly the same. I've put a lot of thought into it, and here's what I've got so far in terms of the factors I'm considering and which school has the edge in each.

Location - Columbia (though not by much considering it's Washington Heights, and New Haven is less than 2 hours away from Grand Central station in NYC)

Curriculum - Yale (I think I'm the type of student who can do well in both the Yale System and a more traditional curriculum, so this isn't too much of an issue, but optional tests and no grades are nice)

Clinical Training/Residency Prep - Columbia (I know it's early, but I think I'd love to match at Columbia Presbyterian eventually, so P&S gets the edge here, though obviously it's still quite possible to match into NYPH from Yale. Clinical training in 3rd and 4th year probably goes to P&S as well)

Prestige (layman and medical) - Yale (I know this is superficial but I do care a little bit about it)

The match lists for both schools are amazing. I have no idea which specialty I want to match into yet but I'm probably leaning towards some form of surgery given my undergraduate clinical experiences, and obviously P&S is heavily skewed towards matching into surgical specialties. However I've heard that Yale really makes sure that all of its students do very well, especially in their clinical evaluations, and that if you put in the work and do decently well on the boards, you'll look like a rock star coming out of Yale.

Any feedback would be appreciated!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[MightyChip26]

edit

 

[tasco]

Hi, I am also in the same situation and would love to hear from other people who are deciding between these two great schools as well.

Here are my thoughts:

YALE: (info is from my interview day and from second-look weekend)
- students seemed super happy and cheerful, and stress-free. They had so much time to pursue other things besides medicine, as they have no grades the first two years. For the third year, most people receive honors, since there is no curve. Fourth year is for thesis work, or for doing whatever, like sub-I's in other states/cities. Most Yale fourth years are just chilling around, since after match, you don't have to do anything except wait for graduation.
- There are parties funded by the school every now and then in Harkness [dorm where most med students live] (once-twice a month), where they serve many alcoholic and non-alcoholic beverages, etc and have dancing music, so the class is pretty social. New Haven is supposedly fun enough (but not as fun as NYC, of course!) to be well-entertained. NYC is a train ride away and lots of students go there for their weekends and still manage to get their big-city fix.
- the class is smaller (about 100 students), and they get SO MUCH support from faculty. The faculty really go all out to mentor the med students (especially for the mandatory thesis) so the med students get great, personal, and detailed recs for residency.
- if you want to do research, you are welcomed with open arms and funded. if you want to shadow, ask a doctor and you most likely will be welcomed with open arms. if you want to do something hands-on clinically, you can start the first week of first-year...
- there are opportunities to do things abroad, and you are funded.
- because there are no grades, the students can do stuff like research, and even have time to be first authors for research papers, which makes them stand out and super competitive and unique for residency.
- most students match to Yale, or the other hospitals affiliated with Harvard. I was told that almost all hospitals love Yale students, but I am not sure if this is just advertising by Yale!!! Surprisingly, not too many students match to top programs in NYC (NY Presbyterian) or Philly (Hospital of UPenn)? Not sure why???
- hospital is tertiary care, and the patient population is said to be diverse...
- Yale undergrad is right there, not too far away, and med students can reap the benefits of being close to the undergrad campus.
- fifth year of med school is at no additional cost. one can later decide to get a PhD or masters if one desires (but I think for those degrees, you do have to pay tuition).
- Yale, to the lay person, is more prestigious than Columbia. Though, Columbia is very highly regarded as well! My impression, after talking to non-med people, is that Yale is more highly regarded... though that should not really matter, unless you have really superficial patients.

COLUMBIA: (I did not go to second look for this school, so this is based off my interview day and research):
- students seemed satisfied, though not as cheerful as students in Yale. Or it might just be the New York vibe of indifference. They were definitely *satisfied* with their med school experiences though, and not one student recounted bad experiences at P&S. General feeling I got: indifferent satisfaction, like after Thanksgiving dinner, you are happy, but too stuffed to show cheerful-ness or excitement about it.
- buildings are kind of run-down and not nice.
- lots of students go into surgery, and most match to NY Presbyterian, which is great. I generally feel that their match list is somehow stronger... but it may be because they have a bigger class, so the number of top residency matches is thus greater?
- bigger class (around 160, I think???? definitely over 100). Classmates seem close, though. Not sure if they hang out together, etc outside of class.
- Faculty seem a bit distant...... [can someone verify this?]
- Classes are P/F for the first two years. Relatively low-stress. I sat in on a morning small-group, and everyone was pretty chill, and most students did not even know what the topic-of-the-day was, so it's not intense at all. Also, attendance is not even monitored, so it's optional, and most students did not show or came to class very late.
- NYC!!!!!! is right at their fingertips. Not sure if they have all the time to take advantage of NYC, though, but they have benefits and fun in NYC. Washington Heights is not that great, but the subway is right there at the corner of the street, leading all other great places in the city.
- there are also opportunities abroad, which many students take advantage of. Fourth years usu go abroad, or just chill as well.
- Columbia undergrad is farther away, but close via subway, and students *can* reap benefits, but most don't (I think).
- Patient population is not too diverse, mostly underserved..



BOTH are great schools, is there anything else that stuck out to other people (especially Columbia)? Also, please correct me if anything posted above is wrong!!!

I wish that I had gone to second-look for Columbia. It would be **great** if someone can offer their impressions of Columbia, the good and the bad. How close knit is the class? Are the faculty open to students? Do students get to do more than just shadow their first year? Pretty please. Thanks!!!!

 

[veaselhaufen]

I don't think the scholarly project was mentioned in the yale column. How much do you enjoy research? Also, MANY people at yale take a 5th year. How interested are you in an extra year of research or a dual degree. New Haven is sketchy as sh it and not interesting (Especially the area around the med school). I really liked the dorms at Yale. I did have the opportunity to stay overnight and it was a nice room/ there were many other people of different disciplines on a floor. There was also a gym on the bottom floor, as well as the classrooms in the same building. Super convenietn. I think its worth mentioning again how depressing I find new haven to be. and I've spent a significant amount of time there.

At Columbia I felt like I was interviewing for some social club or something. Nobody ever mentioned anything at all about academics; they just talked about their P&S club and random other stuff. This was weird, and kind of a turnoff to me. Also dorm life has to be mentioned here. I didn't mind bard hall when I stayed with my host, and I actually got to see the towers where med students stay in the second year. I thought both were acceptable although many other people complained about bard. Washington Heights is sketchy as sh it BUT it is very interesting


BTW:I interviewed at both, was waitlisted at both. I didn't get a great impression at either but theyre both great schools

 

[mweiss]

P&S student here
delsol: you have a couple of great choices. for me, i put location more firmly in the P&S column. It turns out, being an A train ride away from downtown is a hell of a lot different from being a metronorth ride away. Med school does get busy, and it's nice to be able to enjoy the city without having to make it a day trip.

mightychip: come on, man, you really don't have to argue about prestige here.

tasco: too bad you didn't make it to second look. it tends to be a hell of a good time. re your questions, yes we are very close, and yes the faculty are open to us. A good portion of the faculty went here, and feel a strong sense of loyalty to P&S. Because of that they go out of their way for us. As for clinical experiences during first and second year, heh, I nearly failed the first year GI block because i was spending too much time in the OR. P&S is kind of legendary for the stuff you get to do as a first and second year. Most of it is not part of the curriculum, but either through the interest groups or through emailing around. I hear Yale has developed some similar programs recently. Maybe 1/3 of us do something with the undergrads, like take a class or play lacrosse. Oh, and one thing about the patient population. If it were mostly underserved, they wouldn't be underserved, now would they Seriously though, you get all types here. Brown people, white people, bankers, teachers, cabbies, homeless guys, crack addicts and politicians. It does help to speak Spanish.

veasel: turns out, we have a scholary project now too. yale stole our magic pager, we stole their scholary project. and yes, sometimes this place does feel a bit like a social club. sometimes

 

[tasco]

I figured that I should tell my final post-May-15th decision... I chose Columbia, for multiple reasons. I think that I made a great choice; ultimately, Columbia fit me better: great clinical exposure, new 1.5 year curriculum, scholarly project that is not as intense as Yale's thesis, NYC!!!!! and all that comes along with NYC, many opportunities abroad, and a group of happy med students / future peers who are satisfied with their experiences.

 

[WBmasta]

I thought I would join this discussion. I had chosen Columbia on May 15th but I just got off the waitlist at Yale. I want to be in nyc but Yale is giving me an unbelievable financial aid package. I liked Yale more from interview day than Columbia. I was obviously unable to attend Yale's second look. I did not fall in love with Columbia during revisit, but I want to be in nyc, and a Columbia seems to make a lot of sense in that I want to do surgery and in that Spanish is my first language.

Should I go with the money and miss out being in nyc at this young age, or should I have more debt, enjoy nyc, and serve a Spanish-speaking population?

 

[dannyboy1]

I thought I would join this discussion. I had chosen Columbia on May 15th but I just got off the waitlist at Yale. I want to be in nyc but Yale is giving me an unbelievable financial aid package. I liked Yale more from interview day than Columbia. I was obviously unable to attend Yale's second look. I did not fall in love with Columbia during revisit, but I want to be in nyc, and a Columbia seems to make a lot of sense in that I want to do surgery and in that Spanish is my first language.

Should I go with the money and miss out being in nyc at this young age, or should I have more debt, enjoy nyc, and serve a Spanish-speaking population?

do you really think you will have a problem landing a surgery residency (or any other residency for that matter) coming from yale ?

 

[Druzie]

I thought I would join this discussion. I had chosen Columbia on May 15th but I just got off the waitlist at Yale. I want to be in nyc but Yale is giving me an unbelievable financial aid package. I liked Yale more from interview day than Columbia. I was obviously unable to attend Yale's second look. I did not fall in love with Columbia during revisit, but I want to be in nyc, and a Columbia seems to make a lot of sense in that I want to do surgery and in that Spanish is my first language.

Should I go with the money and miss out being in nyc at this young age, or should I have more debt, enjoy nyc, and serve a Spanish-speaking population?

New Haven is very close to NYC, so in this case I wouldn't let that get in the way. They're both excellent programs and I imagine you'll have the same opportunities/options when it comes to residency from either place. As for Spanish, I'm pretty sure you'll still get to use it.

To sum up, I would go with the money here.

 

[tasco]

for me as well, the financial aid was relatively better at Yale, but I still chose Columbia at the end.
Are we looking at a HUGE difference in financial aid in your case?

I think you just have to ask yourself:
- Would you work better with Yale's system (no grades for the first two years, Honors...etc grading during the clinical years, required thesis by four years) or Columbia's (P/F grading first 1.5 years, honors etc grading for the clinical years, scholarly project for six months but no thesis, and a 1.5 preclinical curriculum, which means even more clinical exposure/training).
Under which system do you feel will prepare you, personally, the best for the boards, and for seeing your patients? At Yale, you have to be VERY self-motivated to keep up with the studying when the grade technically "doesn't count". At Columbia, it's more familiar... the grading and all. But Yale does prepare you for the real world... you study for helping your patients, not for the exam. I just wasn't sure I was that mature and motivated to study without any grades, though... and the required thesis was a little unattractive too to me at the end. It seemed like just a huge annoying assignment hanging in the air perpetually for me.
- NYC or New Haven? I went to Yale's second-look and talked to a lot of the med students... they DO go to NYC... once a month on average, though. It IS around two hours one-way and a little less than $30 away... but still, you ARE an impoverished med student with things to do. Even without grades, you feel like you should be responsibly studying, for the boards, and for your future patients. And it gets a little annoying when you don't have a place to stay after a night out at NYC... one girl I met would go to NYC every month, and then take the train back at 4am and arrive back at New Haven around 6am, but I didn't think that I could do that.
- How strong do you want your clinical training to be? I felt like Columbia's clinical training was stronger than Yale's... as Presbyterian is more diverse and is a better hospital that Yale New Haven Hospital. I am pretty sure that you'll get a great clinical training at Yale, but I think Columbia's may be better.
- Also, keep in mind, that A LOT of people at Yale take a fifth year... either to earn another degree or to finish their theses... I felt like you almost looked bad if you didn't... almost everyone on the student panel during second-look was a fifth year. The fifth year is free, but still, I didn't want to feel compelled to spend five years in New Haven. At Yale, I felt like I would have wanted to do a fifth year to be as adequate as my classmates. Even the director of admissions, Mr. Silverman, said that so many people take a fifth year, that you feel bad that you don't take a fifth year as well.


By the way, you WILL be using your Spanish at Yale.. the free clinic there has a huge Spanish population... just so you know, so don't worry about that.


I did enjoy Yale at second-look (loved the faculty attention and the fun atmosphere of the school), and sometimes, I wish I could divide myself into two, and go to both Yale and Columbia, but I can't. I am sure that I'll be happy at Columbia, though. Couldn't pass up living in NYC during my 20's. Whatever choice you make, good luck, and hope it is the one right for you and is everything you are looking for.

 

[WBmasta]

Thank you all for your comments. I thought it would only be fair to let you all know my final decision. I have chosen Yale. Columbia was great and all, but deep down inside I never felt super-comfortable there and I felt at home at Yale on interview day. Also, the money difference was quite significant once it was projected for 4 years of medical school, especially after my brother graduates from college. I also believe that the dining hall for med students at Yale will significantly contribute to my happiness.

 

[tasco]

congratulations! Glad you made your choice. I think that you'll really enjoy Yale. Best of luck! Maybe we'll bump into each other for residency / whenever you do stop by Manhattan from New Haven.