Vote for President

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Vote for President

  • Hillary Clinton

    Votes: 150 52.1%

  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 138 47.9%
  • Total voters
    288
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Doctor4Life1769 said:
More hyperbole.
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It's funny that you accuse people of hyperbole, when your favorite is the one exaggerating left and right. About 75% of what he says turns out to be a lie.

You are campaigning for the school bully to be school president. Just think about it.
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FFP said:
It's funny that you accuse people of hyperbole, when your favorite is the one exaggerating left and right. About 75% of what he says turns out to be a lie.

You are campaigning for the school bully to be school president. Just think about it.
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You're campaigning for the failed Secretary of State.
Obama was a bully too. Don't forget how vicious his attacks were against Hillary and Romney.
 
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Doctor4Life1769 said:
You've endorsed Hillary by stating you aren't voting for Trump.
Are you going to vote for the third party candidate? If so, you're endorsing Hillary.
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I am not endorsing anybody. I am just afraid of what Trump would do to this country I love. I hope I am wrong.
 
Pooh & Annie said:
Allegations are obviously very important to you, and that's ok. But it's fortunately pretty rare for a wife to throw her husband under the bus over allegations. I think that's probably the way it should be.
She's obviously accepted that he is/was a philanderer, and she made the choice to stay with him. Lots of women do. She probably does not believe he's a violent rapist.

And I bet as a lawyer Hillary Clinton is aware that both men AND women occasionally lie.

And again, Bill Clinton isn't running. But Trump, as a TMZ level celebrity, feeds off slime and scandal.
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"To every survivor of sexual assault...You have the right to be heard. You have the right to be believed. We're with you." —Hillary, 9/2015
 
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Doctor4Life1769 said:
You do realize Hillary exposed our beloved country via her emails.
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Security breeches and creating vacuums in the Middle East for baking a terrorist organization. Things Clinton is good at.
 
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Doctor4Life1769 said:
So, it matters when it occurred? There was only one bubble?
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It doesn't matter to me because I don't care about anyone making a buck by buying real estate when prices are depressed. But your statement that she profited from 'the bubble' is downright false. Let's take a look at prices from 1993-1997, the years that the article mentioned her flipping heavily.

xCD4mMA.png
 
FFP said:
Oops, now he's pissed off the wrong female:

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She's involved in lying and profiting herself. She's very hyperbolic - bringing in "the Estradas" for extra effect.

Yes, the Big Banks being "too big to fail" are the problem.
 
While I appreciate that there are multiple allegations of misconduct against president Clinton he is not the one running for office. Mrs. Clinton may be corrupt, insofar as everyone reaching high levels of power political or financial leaves a trail of figurative bodies. (There is never a vegetarian at the top of the food chain), I am quite sure that Mr. Trump is equally corrupt.

We must in this case look past the glaring human faults both of these candidates have and ask, which one seems to have quite real grasp of the issues and an understanding of how government works? Which one understands relationships between nations, the relative advantages and disadvantages.

It leaves at this point one regrettable choice. I will not vote for Mrs. Clinton, I will be voting against donald trump, for all of the policy issues I have brought up that no one has rebutted. Instead a personal animus of the Clinton's will drive the vote. Sometimes I really think there should be poll testing.
 
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Doctor4Life1769 said:
She's involved in lying and profiting herself. She's very hyperbolic - bringing in "the Estradas" for extra effect.
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Really? Warren? I am looking forward to you proving that accusation. I am not a big fan of hers, but the last thing I would think about her is that she's morally corrupt.
 
Doctor4Life1769 said:
What about Hillary leads you to think she can handle being President when she couldn't handle being S o S?
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What about Trump leads you to think he can handle being President when he couldn't handle being a businessman? Bankruptcy (sorry, reorganization of debts because he's the "King of Debt" by his own declaration), failed casino (a casino should be a license to print money), failed vodka company, failed airlines business, failed "school", . . .

He'd had more money today if he took his father's silver spoon, paid and accountant to invest it, and never started a corporation.

He's got his "brand" and that's about it. Most things with the name trump on them are not fully owned by Trump. And you think his "brand" will carry him on the world stage? He's a laughing stock to the rest of the world.
I know it's a low bar, but at least Hillary (or better yet Sanders) is taken seriously globally.
 
People take Hillary seriously on a global scale?
Bernie? The same guy who self-invited himself to meet the Pope?

I'm not saying Trump's an excellent pick, but he's better than a failed politician.

I could be talked into voting for the curmudgeon.
 
FFP said:
Really? Warren? I am looking forward to you proving that accusation. I am not a big fan of hers, but the last thing I would think about her is that she's morally corrupt.
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I'm pretty sure she doesn't have a significant Native American background like she claimed, given that she can't prove it. She sure did milk it when she needed to. She didn't endorse Bernie despite "similar policies" - turns out she's also in bed with big banks:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corne...ists-love-elizabeth-warren-kevin-d-williamson
She's backed big companies against the workers and relegating them to nothing when insurance companies or other big companies were taking advantage of the workers. She was practicing law in MA without a license, and didn't pass the MA bar. Claimed she dabbled when she clearly was practicing. She now wants to target innovative companies like Uber to force them to provide benefits when Uber isn't a full time gig and those who partake in such a gig knowingly do so as a side gig and without benefits. It's all a scam to support the taxi companies.
 
Fluffhead87 said:
What about Trump leads you to think he can handle being President when he couldn't handle being a businessman? Bankruptcy (sorry, reorganization of debts because he's the "King of Debt" by his own declaration), failed casino (a casino should be a license to print money), failed vodka company, failed airlines business, failed "school", . . .

He'd had more money today if he took his father's silver spoon, paid and accountant to invest it, and never started a corporation.

He's got his "brand" and that's about it. Most things with the name trump on them are not fully owned by Trump. And you think his "brand" will carry him on the world stage? He's a laughing stock to the rest of the world.
I know it's a low bar, but at least Hillary (or better yet Sanders) is taken seriously globally.
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Trump has led a private business for 40 years. When you take into account that the average S&P company lifespan is 15 years these days, yes, for all intents and purposes he is a successful businessman.

And the average S&P growth annually is 10%, so no crap- most businesses would love that growth and very few active investors actually achieve that.

Ps. Accountants are not people who you give money to invest for you.
 
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FFP said:
Really? Warren? I am looking forward to you proving that accusation. I am not a big fan of hers, but the last thing I would think about her is that she's morally corrupt.
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I am pretty convinced her claiming Indian ancestry was not an accident. I have filled out information cards at places of employment before too, and I never thought of checking a box "to connect with other people of my ethnicity", which hasn't even been shown to be hers.

She also torched Trump for wishing to see a housing price bubble pop, only to find out she bought and flipped houses for profit herself.

Then there's the part about her talking about making education more affordable while she is making $400,000 at a graduate school gig.

I don't have a problem with her, and she isn't incredibly high profile quite yet but is getting there, but she needs to cover her tracks a lot better if she is going to make it in the cruel politics world of deceit and dishonor.
 
I almost want Trump to be president simply for the tears his election will elicit amongst liberals. But I know he shouldn't be, because he's a ****ing madman.
trump_shut_it2.png
 
Ignatius J said:
Trump has led a private business for 40 years. When you take into account that the average S&P company lifespan is 15 years these days, yes, for all intents and purposes he is a successful businessman.
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Because just about all of his business activities outside of his name recognition (started by his father, not him) have failed and he'd be more rich if he never touched his company and simply invested in an unmanaged find and sipped Mai Tais on the beach (based on estimates of his inheritance and current wealth giving him the benefit of the doubt http://www.moneytalksnews.com/why-youre-probably-better-investing-than-donald-trump/), yeah, that's why he's a failed businessman in my book.
 
Fluffhead87 said:
Because just about all of his business activities outside of his name recognition (started by his father, not him) have failed and he'd be more rich if he never touched his company and simply invested in an unmanaged find and sipped Mai Tais on the beach (based on estimates of his inheritance and current wealth giving him the benefit of the doubt http://www.moneytalksnews.com/why-youre-probably-better-investing-than-donald-trump/), yeah, that's why he's a failed businessman in my book.
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Have you taken any level of risk and still mostly come out on top like Trump has?
 
vector2 said:
It doesn't matter to me because I don't care about anyone making a buck by buying real estate when prices are depressed. But your statement that she profited from 'the bubble' is downright false. Let's take a look at prices from 1993-1997, the years that the article mentioned her flipping heavily.

xCD4mMA.png
Click to expand...

Yeah, I see increasing value over the years, leading up to the bubble and then bursting. Either way, she flipped and profited big time and then wants to bash Trump for simply voicing what a good businessman with money would do.
 
Fluffhead87 said:
Me personally? No. But thanks for the ad hominem logical "argument".
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Failed attempt at deflecting.
You're assuming that you're guaranteed to make such returns playing the market. If that's the case, everyone who did would come out ahead and they clearly have not.
I'd rather someone who has tried to innovate and expand his brand fail from time to time than someone who made it a career leeching off everyone like the Clintons.
 
Doctor4Life1769 said:
Failed attempt at deflecting.
You're assuming that you're guaranteed to make such returns playing the market. If that's the case, everyone who did would come out ahead and they clearly have not.
I'd rather someone who has tried to innovate and expand his brand fail from time to time than someone who made it a career leeching off everyone like the Clintons.
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Failed attempt at deflecting? Did you read your words as you typed them? You asked if I had done anything similar to Trump? How else did you expect me to respond? Or maybe your rhetorical question and sarcasm font didn't show up on my screen?
 
FFP said:
Really? Warren? I am looking forward to you proving that accusation. I am not a big fan of hers, but the last thing I would think about her is that she's morally corrupt.
Click to expand...

You're talking about Fauxcahontas, correct?

She lied about being native American to get a job at Harvard.
 
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Fluffhead87 said:
Failed attempt at deflecting? Did you read your words as you typed them? You asked if I had done anything similar to Trump? How else did you expect me to respond? Or maybe your rhetorical question and sarcasm font didn't show up on my screen?
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I was referring to your ad hominem line.
Wow the Hillary supporters are just a collective group of geniuses.
 
Doctor4Life1769 said:
I was referring to your ad hominem line.
Wow the Hillary supporters are just a collective group of geniuses.
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Ok, fine. You win. I yield. That was an amazing argument tactic. I'm very sorry I pointed out your great use of a logical fallacy, and you took that as deflecting. And I'm going to assume you are not deflecting here, cause that would be hypocritical, and I'll accept your compliment, at face value, that I am genius. Or you don't like even the false assumption of deflection, and only you can do it? Thank you for helping me understand the rules. Thank you and good night.
 
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"There [are] a couple of things that seem to be a pattern match for people who are right a lot. One is that people who are right a lot listen a lot. Another one is that people who are right a lot change their mind a lot.... People say that you should change your mind when the data changes; but I change my mind even when the data doesn't change, because I reanalyze the situation every day and sometimes I just come to a better analysis. And I think actually what I said yesterday I don't believe anymore.... You should not change your mind on your principles or your ideals or your vision. You should be stubborn on those things. But most of what we do every day is very tactical...and you should be very, very focused on the details and on changing your mind very frequently. And then finally--and this is the one that humans are the worst at--is [that] you have to have deep convictions, but then always work to disconfirm them. And you won't usually. Most of your convictions are going to be right for long periods of time, but you should always be saying 'Here's something I really, really believe is true, and then am I wrong about this? Am I wrong about this?'. And then look for ways to disconfirm. The natural human behavior is confirmation bias." -Jeff Bezos

From http://www.valueinvestingworld.com/2016/05/jeff-bezos-quote.html
 
Fluffhead87 said:
Because just about all of his business activities outside of his name recognition (started by his father, not him) have failed and he'd be more rich if he never touched his company and simply invested in an unmanaged find and sipped Mai Tais on the beach (based on estimates of his inheritance and current wealth giving him the benefit of the doubt http://www.moneytalksnews.com/why-youre-probably-better-investing-than-donald-trump/), yeah, that's why he's a failed businessman in my book.
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This is appropriate coming from a doctor. Because they are notoriously naive about business.

You are essentially talking about investing in a passively managed ETF like VOO (which didn't exist 40 years ago) and investing in a private company.

The S&P 500 will outperform just about any private business out there. It returns about 10% annually and has for 100 years. Any private equity investor would love that return on investment. Most active investors and money managers don't even get that.

Go look at the S&P 40 years ago and tell me what percentage of those companies are still in business. That is a more accurate comparison. You'll find the substantial majority are not around anymore, even having had the advantage of raising capital publicly.

Running a private business for 40 years is indeed an accomplishment.
 
Ignatius J said:
This is appropriate coming from a doctor. Because they are notoriously naive about business.

You are essentially talking about investing in a passively managed ETF like VOO (which didn't exist 40 years ago) and investing in a private company.

The S&P 500 will outperform just about any private business out there. It returns about 10% annually and has for 100 years. Any private equity investor would love that return on investment. Most active investors and money managers don't even get that.

Go look at the S&P 40 years ago and tell me what percentage of those companies are still in business. That is a more accurate comparison. You'll find the substantial majority are not around anymore, even having had the advantage of raising capital publicly.

Running a private business for 40 years is indeed an accomplishment.
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Vanguard was founded 41 years ago. ;)

And of course the S&P 500 will NOT outperform just about any private business. Quite the opposite. The larger the company, the more difficult is to maintain the growth rate. Hence well-managed smaller businesses will outperform the S&P 500 quite frequently. It's just tough to keep growing at that rate and beating the index, I get that. And you're right about the lifetime of most businesses, but the fact that a construction/apartment rental company is still around is no big deal. People will always need shelter, even when they don't buy luxury apartments or golf courses, and that company is based on daddy's property management company.

I will believe all the legends about "the Donald" when he releases his tax returns. Until then, he's probably lying, as he does most of the time. Con man psychology. They keep lying and keep denying their lies, even when presented with evidence.
 
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FFP said:
Vanguard was founded 41 years ago. ;)

And of course the S&P 500 will NOT outperform just about any private business. Quite the opposite. The larger the company, the more difficult is to maintain the growth rate. Hence well-managed smaller businesses will outperform the S&P 500 quite frequently. It's just tough to keep growing at that rate and beating the index, I get that. And you're right about the lifetime of most businesses, but the fact that a construction/apartment rental company is still around is no big deal. People will always need shelter, even when they don't buy luxury apartments or golf courses, and that company is based on daddy's property management company.

I will believe all the legends about "the Donald" when he releases his tax returns. Until then, he's probably lying, as he does most of the time. Con man psychology. They keep lying and keep denying their lies, even when presented with evidence.
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VOO was founded in 2010. You aren't investing in Vanguard. You're investing in their product.

40 years ago, these passively invested ETFs were just emerging from the womb.

And yes, there is a reason private equity is a notoriously bad investment. It does not perform at the level of the publicly traded sector.
 
Ignatius J said:
VOO was founded in 2010. You aren't investing in Vanguard. You're investing in their product.

40 years ago, these passively invested ETFs were just emerging from the womb.

And yes, there is a reason private equity is a notoriously bad investment. It does not perform at the level of the publicly traded sector.
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You don't need an ETF to invest in the S&P 500. VFINX has been around for 40 years. Not that it's really relevant. The man inherited daddy's company, which is not the same as having the money in the bank and investing it.

Private equity is a bad investment because of great managers like Trump. That's why Buffett first looks at the quality of management when investing into a company. ;)

He's the typical con man. Everything is in the superlative, either good or bad. Even his company is an "organization".
 
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FFP said:
You don't need an ETF to invest in the S&P 500. VFINX has been around for 40 years.

Private equity is a bad investment because of great managers like Trump. That's why Buffett first looks at the quality of management when investing into a company. ;)
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No, private equity is a bad investment for a lot of reasons, none of which you seem to grasp. It's okay. We're doctors.

The idea of a Random Walk Down WallStreet was still being very heavily debated and in it's infancy in the 70s and value investors like Benjamin Graham ruled the day. If you are here to argue that this idea was as popular or prominent 40 years ago, then you can stop there, because you are fundamentally wrong and I'm not going to waste time convincing someone that the sky is blue.
 
Ignatius J said:
The idea of a Random Walk Down WallStreet was still being very heavily debated and in it's infancy in the 70s and value investors like Benjamin Graham ruled the day. If you are here to argue that this idea was as popular or prominent 40 years ago, then you can stop there, because you are fundamentally wrong and I'm not going to waste time convincing someone that the sky is blue.
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Obviously I am not debating that. Vanguard was still in its infancy 40 years ago, and hindsight is always 20/20.

Now if he had only put his money into BRK.A, at the time... :D
 
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