UMiami v. UFlorida v. USF

Hey everybody, I was wondering if I could get any thoughts or opinions about a decision to attend either University of Miami COM, University of Florida COM, or University of South Florida COM. I've been looking at different threads regarding similar material, but I couldn't find any recent posts from this far into the current cycle.

Some of my impressions:

UM
Classes are 3 to 6 hours daily during 1st and 2nd year.
Lectures recorded and organized online.
I don't know too much about the curriculum.
No preceptorship; underclassmen are introduced to the wards by upperclassmen.
Students have a lot of free time, seem to get along extremely well. This is reinforced by the presence of academic societies. Each student is sorted into one.
Students discussed going to bars and clubs in their free time; location is near South Beach, a popular tourist attraction.
High quality of living; high cost of living (~1K monthly rent/student).
Great exposure at the many affiliated hospitals in Miami.
Main teaching hospital: Jackson Memorial (level 1 trauma)
Tuition: $30K in-state

UF
Classes can be ~2 to 3 hours daily, usually mandatory. Students are expected to study in groups or solo outside of class time. Classes seem to be quite efficient; students read assignments prior to coming to class then discuss in class (I might be wrong).
Curriculum has been well established for years. It has been working for UF, and they create good docs (so I hear), so why change the system?
Lectures are not recorded and posted online by the school; some students do it voluntarily. Thus, teachers are not trained to accommodate this need.
Big/Little program helps welcome MS-1s.
Preceptorship for MS-1 in Fall semester.
No South Beach, but students don't seem to find this to be an issue.
Low cost of living (many places are <$500 monthly).
Good exposure at Shands Gainesville and Shands Jacksonville. Many doctors are solid UF docs and interested in molding more UF docs.
Main teaching hospital: Shands Gainesville (level 1 trauma).
Tuition: $26K in-state

USF
Classes are ~5-8 hours daily.
Lectures recorded and organized online.
Curriculum structure is finally settling down. I hear that they change curriculum based on student input, but can this just be an excuse for a system that just hasn't found its groove?
Students are matched with a preceptor early and establish a long relationship with him/her.
Good quality of life in Tampa.
Good exposure at Tampa General, Haley VA Hospital, other affiliated hospitals, but I often hear complaints from students having to drive an hour to clinic, then drive back for class.
Main teaching hospital: Tampa General Hospital (level 1 trauma).
Tuition: $25K in-state

USF and UM seem more relaxed, so I'm told. But UF seemed relaxed too? I keep hearing both that UF is the best in the state but also that UF has many gunners (bad!). I hear that UM is the best in the state, but I've met students at UM that would have gone to UF if the could have gotten an interview. UM and UF seem more convenient for students due to the proximity of the hospitals.


I need help deciding! I would appreciate any input!

I don't go to any of those schools. I actually go to FSU, but UF does tend to be very tense. I know multiple people there that are in 3rd and 4th year that said they kind of wished they went to other places. Two of them straight up told me they wishes they went or got into FSU instead even. That isn't some thing talking it up here, but rather just what they said. Thery got a solid education there.

I know a second year and a 4th year at Miami. They both seem pretty happy there. They both told me first year is miserable. It is expensive as hell and that is honestly reason enough for me not to go there. Social life doesn't matter too much during medical school. You make fun with your classmates.

Two people at USF both seem to like it a lot as well. It seems the most laid back out of those 3. I believe they do have other schools take classes with them during the first year, so the lectures might be large.

Never underestimate how much mandatory attendance sucks though. There will always be times you just want to go into your nook and study but can't.

I'm a first year at USF. I got accepted to UM for med school as well and attended UF for undergrad.

IMO, UF is arrogant when it comes to rankings and thinking they are the best (both undergrad when I was a student and when I was around the med school). I have two friends that are fourth years there and their classes don't bond as well as other schools--the students tend to isolate from one another. Then you have that entire fiasco where Gov Crist put in a campaign donor's son into UF's medical school bypassing the entire application process...that got them into a lot of trouble. I heard 7 or so first years last year failed and had to redo the year. They have a "traditional" curriculum.

Miami is a good school that makes good docs as well, but I was put off by the area (not a big fan of Miami and the price that comes with it). Also, I didn't like how Jackson Memorial lacks an emergency residency program (kind of odd how they boasted about being the 2nd busiest ER in the nation behind UCLA, but don't even have a residency for it). The students there seemed really happy when I interviewed. Those academic societies seemed interesting, but also a sure fire way to form cliques right away, lol.😉 I don't think you can go wrong with going to Miami.

USF is really laid back. All of my classmates are pretty cool and we all get along great. Lectures are not 5-8 hours a day. Some days we have 8 hours of lecture and other days we have no class. We have four hospitals pretty much "on campus" (VA, University Community Hospital, Shriner's, and Moffitt). TGH is a little farther south about 15 minutes and is a better Level 1 Trauma center than Shands&UF, ORMC, Broward General, and Jackson Memorial from my experiences at all of them.

For those students that complain of "1 hour commutes," that is rare. For the first year, we are assigned a preceptor in the Tampa area to follow around 18 weeks between November and April (4 hours each time). Mine is close to school so it's not that much different than going to class. Some have St. Pete and as far out as Lakeland (they car pool together to get to the same clinic). In second year, you have two locations (one for each semester). Out of these three, at least one has to be a long commute. I don't go to class after my clinical experience and go back home...a few times I've had mandatory stuff right after (anatomy lab).

Here's our calendar if you're curious: http://hsc.usf.edu/NR/rdonlyres/1B6...800/AY0910IntegratedYear1MDDPTforOEA12110.xls

Ignore the DPT stuff in red as that is for Physical Therapy students and for "LCE" you can ignore 2 out of the 3 per week (it's not 12 hours per week, just 4 and you pick which four hour block you want it in). The "PD assessment" is the possible times you can be assigned to physical diagnosis simulated patient. Again, you will not attend all those times and just 2 hours within the week they have those listed. Also, you will only be doing 1/2 of the anatomy dissections in the labs you seen in the file. The class is split into group A and group B to work on 30 bodies. There are about 2 MD students per group so you will be working alongside 1 other classmate (maybe 2 other) for two sessions in a row. Then the next group does the following two labs. I think it works out each group doing 18 labs during the year (November to May) with them being 2 hours a piece.

If you're wondering why I picked USF, I liked the fact I could walk 500 ft in either direction to use four hospitals with different objectives (cancer, veterans, childrens, and community). TGH is also more impressive than any level 1 trauma center I've been to in FL. Only other hospital I've been too that I think is better is Shock Trauma in Baltimore, but that is a different story and something that is well known in the US (at least east coast). Also, USF offers more residency programs I believe than the others (emergency medicine at least over UM).

Feel free to ask anymore questions. About 1/5 of our class went to UF as undergrad and we all love going to USF. We have an exam on Monday so I got to study! Good luck! 👍

Edit: as far as lectures, I watch them online at 2x speed so I have a lot of free time. 🙂

UM certainly has a preceptor program. It starts first semester of first year, 3 times a semester for 3 hours each time (first year at least). Honestly, I wouldn't want to spend more time than that as we get plenty time practicing clinical skills at health fairs and with academic societies training. As far as clique forming due to academic societies, if anything it's the opposite. You hang out with people you might not ordinarily hang out with.

Curriculum is essentially general basic sciences for the first semester, and then organ systems through year 2.

UM's pretty good with financial aid (definitely the best of the three) so I'd say wait till that comes around to make the choice. All three schools produce great doctors and are fairly equivalent.

Since I don't actually attend UF or USF I can't really comment, but my classmates at UM are very tight-knit and everyone's very happy/friendly. You can't really make a wrong choice with any of the three, good luck =)

I really appreciate everybody's input. I'm really in a toss up. I figure i'll be able to make friends wherever I go, and that I'm gonna be in medical school to study, not socialize, but I guess a comfortable social atmosphere is important for a good, productive work environment. Outside of how well the students get along, is there any major difference in the style or quality of teaching?

Can anybody vouch for UF? Any arguments about why I should consider UF more heavily?

thanks!!

bump!

49ers said:

IMO, UF is arrogant when it comes to rankings and thinking they are the best (both undergrad when I was a student and when I was around the med school).

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TOTALLY, 100%, AGREE.👍 Well said.

pppfcr said:

TOTALLY, 100%, AGREE.👍 Well said.

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but would anybody argue that uf lives up to a high standard of academic excellence? or is uf a school that's all bark and no bite?

UF has a really high average USMLE step 1 score (isn't it like 240+?), so they probably have adequate academic standards 🙂

jla314 said:

UF has a really high average USMLE step 1 score (isn't it like 240+?), so they probably have adequate academic standards 🙂

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i've been hearing things all over. i heard that they teach to the steps, but i've also heard that Miami actually has the highest in the state at 230+ or something

idk, i'd just wait til finaid

standard said:

but would anybody argue that uf lives up to a high standard of academic excellence? or is uf a school that's all bark and no bite?

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High standard? I guess having 7 of your first year students repeat is being held to a high standard? Or maybe being poor at professing...I can tell you that first year is not difficult. It is maybe time consuming at best. Class averages at USF for our exams are around an 85%.

From my Miami interviews last year (both FAU and main campus), I know for sure the FAU campus had a higher Step 1 score. I believe by around 5 points. With that said, I don't know the actual number, but for some reason 225 does come to mind (main campus is 225 I think).

USF's Step 1 average is around 219 from what a fourth year told me a couple weeks back. National average (50th percentile) is like a 217. To be honest, I have never cared what the averages are. It's always up to the individual student. A PGY-4 resident I know says to just use Kaplan for 3 weeks prior to the boards and you should get a 235+. Effort in = results out. 🙂

By the way, we had our mandatory financial aid talk at USF. The FL Department of Education hasn't set our tuition yet for in-state students, but the lady told us "historically it goes up about 10% a year." With ours currently at $26,833, we will have tuition about $30k next year. 🙁 Same applies to UF and other public schools that use the Dept of Education for funding.

Miami has kept their costs down to $32k on average all the time, but they receive about $5k per in-state student and that may change. Either way, Miami is the school that offers the best financial aid for sure. I didn't get any when I was accepted (probably because my FAFSA didn't have parental info even though they claim it's "merit" based). One of my current classmates was offered $10k a year by Miami to give you guys a ballpark.

Either way, go to the school that's your best fit since they all cost the same now. You won't save anything going to USF of UF over Miami unless the former two give you scholarships, which they really don't.

this is news to me...

i didn't know that the cost of attendance for all three (UF, USF, Miami) is pretty much the same.

are there any applicants gung ho about going to any of the schools?

please help impart that same energy to me! i can't decide!

friday afternoon bump for some help...!

Of all the med schools in the state, UM is the one with the best reputation nationally. Just this year, UM jumped into the top 1/3 schools in the country in the amount of NIH funding received. UF will always try to say that they are better, but then again that is sooo UF that it has gotten really old. Because UF is a state school, some students favor it over UM (scholarship and money wise). I do not know anyone who has turned down Miami for UF unless money is involved.

Jackson Memorial gets the most unique and varied pathology as a major referral center from the caribbean and south america. This does not happen at Shands nor in Tampa. Miami is expensive but it offers the best recreational opportunities and nightlife that you can get in the state (you can not say this for Gainsville=Cowland, nor Tampa = big town)

FSU is just FSU. The students may be happy but Tallahassee is nothing to write home about. It is usually considered fourth in the state in terms of reputation after Miami, Gainesville and Tampa.

Just to chime in again, people from both UM and UF all do exceptionally well. The cost difference is very little, especially considering how UF tuition has gone up just about every year whereas UMs has stayed the same (and will likely continue to stay the same, it will for next year at least).

Something that is often taken for granted is also that as a private school with a relatively low out of state tuition, there is a lot more diversity at the school in terms of the students that attend.

Here's an interesting article regarding recent research funding

http://www.med.miami.edu/news/view.asp?id=1292

Without speaking negatively about UF, the big deciding factor for me in choosing UM was the environment which I just found to be a lot more laid back and thus, one I would want to spend the next 4 years in.

BrainBuff said:

Of all the med schools in the state, UM is the one with the best reputation nationally. Just this year, UM jumped into the top 1/3 schools in the country in the amount of NIH funding received. UF will always try to say that they are better, but then again that is sooo UF that it has gotten really old. Because UF is a state school, some students favor it over UM (scholarship and money wise). I do not know anyone who has turned down Miami for UF unless money is involved.

Jackson Memorial gets the most unique and varied pathology as a major referral center from the caribbean and south america. This does not happen at Shands nor in Tampa. Miami is expensive but it offers the best recreational opportunities and nightlife that you can get in the state (you can not say this for Gainsville=Cowland, nor Tampa = big town)

FSU is just FSU. The students may be happy but Tallahassee is nothing to write home about. It is usually considered fourth in the state in terms of reputation after Miami, Gainesville and Tampa.

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I thought there was a question on the future of Jackson Memorial Hospital & UM?

wineorvinegar said:

I thought there was a question on the future of Jackson Memorial Hospital & UM?

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Only for their residency programs, it won't affect med students' rotations.

UM Boca had the highest board score of the Florida schools at I believe the mid 230's, UF is usually near that area as well, but I don't remember it being quite that high(after asking my friend who's a 3rd year at UF, his class average was 237, which I think is the same as UM Boca). There's some good info regarding UF step I performances here:

http://medinfo.ufl.edu:8050/year3/USMLE_cbt_2006.pdf

If I were you, I would go to UF. Who doesn't want to be a gator? UF COM is very well known and well established. It is on the cutting edge of all research.

dingyibvs said:

Only for their residency programs, it won't affect med students' rotations.

UM Boca had the highest board score of the Florida schools at I believe the mid 230's, UF is usually near that area as well, but I don't remember it being quite that high(after asking my friend who's a 3rd year at UF, his class average was 237, which I think is the same as UM Boca). There's some good info regarding UF step I performances here:

http://medinfo.ufl.edu:8050/year3/USMLE_cbt_2006.pdf

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FTR, the mean for UF c/o 2010 was 235 with 30% of the class having above a 245 and 22% (29 students) above a 250...(my numbers are from the student packets they handed out during this year's interviews)...p.s. this is only the 3rd highest mean of UF COM to date

I say UF all the way...Go Gators!! : )

bumpity bump bump

etetqtt

TakeMe said:

bumpity bump bump

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withdrew.