2013-2014 Harvard Application Thread

[RegularKID]

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So lets talk money: Would anyone choose a full-tuition scholarship (merit) from another very good school over HMS? Don't know what my package from HMS gonna be yet, but lets just imagine its not as good.

 

[crimsonbeaver]

So lets talk money: Would anyone choose a full-tuition scholarship (merit) from another very good school over HMS? Don't know what my package from HMS gonna be yet, but lets just imagine its not as good.

I think the merit based scholarships typically don't cover room and board, in which case you'd still have to take out loans to cover living expenses. So you're still taking out ~$25,000 in loans per year.

For applicants with high need, I suspect the difference will be minimal given how generous HMS typically is. Also, HMS students have the lowest average debt (below $100,000). Stanford is the only other school whose student debt after graduation is below 100k (see MSAR), but it seems like most students have a car which can be a huge, unpredictable expense!

 

[yellowfish]

So lets talk money: Would anyone choose a full-tuition scholarship (merit) from another very good school over HMS? Don't know what my package from HMS gonna be yet, but lets just imagine its not as good.

People definitely choose both ways every year, there's not really a wrong decision - in the end it comes down to personal differences/values/goals.

 

[RegularKID]

I think the merit based scholarships typically don't cover room and board, in which case you'd still have to take out loans to cover living expenses. So you're still taking out ~$25,000 in loans per year.

For applicants with high need, I suspect the difference will be minimal given how generous HMS typically is. Also, HMS students have the lowest average debt (below $100,000). Stanford is the only other school whose student debt after graduation is below 100k (see MSAR), but it seems like most students have a car which can be a huge, unpredictable expense!

Thank you @crimsonbeaver. I'm thinking along those same lines. I hope that they'll be more generous. It would be a very difficult decision.

 

[smaziz]

So lets talk money: Would anyone choose a full-tuition scholarship (merit) from another very good school over HMS? Don't know what my package from HMS gonna be yet, but lets just imagine its not as good.

I have the same dilemma, hopefully we'll get a generous package from HMS.

 

[YamNMangos]

This might be a dumb question...but for accepted students, what address should we mail the response form where we accept our place to?

The admission office? The address is on your congratulations letter (top right of page).

 

[Meredith92]

Do you guys happen to know how many people usually get accepted off the waitlist?

 

[yellowfish]

If anyone is curious, here are the 2014 match results.

A brief summary of internal medicine (strictly speaking) matches:
32 total
BWH- 11
BIDMC- 5
MGH- 3
Hopkins- 2
Duke- 2
Mount Sinai- 2
UCSF, NYP, UWash, Vandy, Penn, UCLA, NMC SD- 1 each

 

[medicalhope]

I have the same dilemma, hopefully we'll get a generous package from HMS.

I'm worried that their Unit Loan is set at 30k for this year 😵. That seems considerably higher than most other schools in the 20-25k range, and its a significant increase from 1/2 years ago (28k/24k respectively). Is this just an effect of inflation/the economy?

 

[HappyAhead]

For those who got into NP already-- congrats! Does anyone know if most people make final decisions right after revisit day or if most people wait until May 15th to commit to only one school? I'm hoping (praying!) to get off of the NP wait list and I would like to set realistic expectations about timing... The sooner you all commit to one school, the better for me. 🙂 Thanks!

 

[lalax]

Has anyone received word from financial aid yet? I thought they would send them out yesterday.

 

[YamNMangos]

For those who got into NP already-- congrats! Does anyone know if most people make final decisions right after revisit day or if most people wait until May 15th to commit to only one school? I'm hoping (praying!) to get off of the NP wait list and I would like to set realistic expectations about timing... The sooner you all commit to one school, the better for me. 🙂 Thanks!

Even if people withdraw before May 15, I don't think most schools move the waitlist until after that date (or at least from what I've seen). Also, I would say most people wait until closer to May 15th, so even if some did withdraw beforehand, it wouldn't make enough of a dent for schools to justify moving their waitlists. Good luck!

 

[Espadaleader]

So lets talk money: Would anyone choose a full-tuition scholarship (merit) from another very good school over HMS? Don't know what my package from HMS gonna be yet, but lets just imagine its not as good.

That's a hard call

I'm worried that their Unit Loan is set at 30k for this year 😵. That seems considerably higher than most other schools in the 20-25k range, and its a significant increase from 1/2 years ago (28k/24k respectively). Is this just an effect of inflation/the economy?

Yeah, I am not feeling that at all.

 

[medicalhope]

So lets talk money: Would anyone choose a full-tuition scholarship (merit) from another very good school over HMS? Don't know what my package from HMS gonna be yet, but lets just imagine its not as good.

If their unit loan is actually as high as 30k it might be especially tempting....

 

[HappyAhead]

Even if people withdraw before May 15, I don't think most schools move the waitlist until after that date (or at least from what I've seen). Also, I would say most people wait until closer to May 15th, so even if some did withdraw beforehand, it wouldn't make enough of a dent for schools to justify moving their waitlists. Good luck!

Got it--Thank you for your response!

 

[hlancaster]

Grading question here for current students. Does anyone know if Harvard NP uses pre-clinical scores to evaluate its students at all? (such as for awards, dean's letter, AOA, etc.)

Thank you!

 

[yellowfish]

Grading question here for current students. Does anyone know if Harvard NP uses pre-clinical scores to evaluate its students at all? (such as for awards, dean's letter, AOA, etc.)

Thank you!

No scores are recorded - only satisfactory/unsatisfactory. Our tutorial leaders for each block write a short paragraph evaluation, which can be used for part of our Dean's letter. Preclinical evaluations in this form usually only make up ~2-3 sentences in our Dean's letter.

 

[Frazier]

If anyone is curious, here are the 2014 match results...

...And to think they say med school prestige "doesn't matter".

Spot-checking pubmed, all the students don't have tons of pubs. Statistically speaking, all the students don't have >240 Step scores...It certainly isn't everything, but hard to explain that list without factoring in a bit of pedigree magic.

With that said, def not hating...

Awesome students. Awesome school. Awesome outcomes. Congrats to the 4th yrs.

 

[hlancaster]

No scores are recorded - only satisfactory/unsatisfactory. Our tutorial leaders for each block write a short paragraph evaluation, which can be used for part of our Dean's letter. Preclinical evaluations in this form usually only make up ~2-3 sentences in our Dean's letter.

Thanks, KDizzle! So the tutorial leaders are the only people who see your marks? Also do students get to see their evaluations? And how/when was this process explained to the students?

 

[yellowfish]

Thanks, KDizzle! So the tutorial leaders are the only people who see your marks? Also do students get to see their evaluations? And how/when was this process explained to the students?

Yeah, tutorial leaders are the only ones as far as I'm aware. And then the faculty member(s) who write your Dean's letter will be the only ones to see the evaluations. Students get to see their evaluations. There is no mention of test scores etc. in your evaluation.

Hmm, to be honest I'm not sure when it was explained, but if you dig deep enough in the HMS policy books you can find it although most of us learned from 2nd years or one another, and faculty have gone over it a few times at various points.

It sounds like it might be important/serious and I was a little anxious about it at first, but now I never even think about it. There are 2 sections, one for comments including suggestions for the future, and another that is comments that can be used for the Dean's letter. So the comments that make it to the 2nd section are almost always good comments, even if you weren't a great tutorial student for that block.

 

[medicalhope]

Yeah, tutorial leaders are the only ones as far as I'm aware. And then the faculty member(s) who write your Dean's letter will be the only ones to see the evaluations. Students get to see their evaluations. There is no mention of test scores etc. in your evaluation.

Hmm, to be honest I'm not sure when it was explained, but if you dig deep enough in the HMS policy books you can find it although most of us learned from 2nd years or one another, and faculty have gone over it a few times at various points.

It sounds like it might be important/serious and I was a little anxious about it at first, but now I never even think about it. There are 2 sections, one for comments including suggestions for the future, and another that is comments that can be used for the Dean's letter. So the comments that make it to the 2nd section are almost always good comments, even if you weren't a great tutorial student for that block.

Thanks for your insight! Also, would you mind shedding some light into the atmosphere at HMS and the interactions with faculty? Are the students overall cooperative and collaborative? Or is there a lot of stress?

Regarding faculty, I'm sure there are big egos at every institution, but have you found faculty to be invested in the students and willing to act as longitudinal mentors?

As a side note, what is the lecture attendance policy? Any plans to change it/the curriculm?

Thanks and sorry if this has already been asked!

 

[yellowfish]

Thanks for your insight! Also, would you mind shedding some light into the atmosphere at HMS and the interactions with faculty? Are the students overall cooperative and collaborative? Or is there a lot of stress?

Regarding faculty, I'm sure there are big egos at every institution, but have you found faculty to be invested in the students and willing to act as longitudinal mentors?

As a side note, what is the lecture attendance policy? Any plans to change it/the curriculm?

Thanks and sorry if this has already been asked!

1) The students are by and far cooperative and collaborative. I really enjoy working/studying with my classmates, as they're some of the brightest people I've ever met and there are a lot of unique perspectives and backgrounds to learn from. I think stress is a different question, and I would say that stress boils down more to personal choices than a reflection of institutional culture - I've seen some people who are pretty much never stressed, and others who are perpetually stressed. It really depends on what kind of person you are. It's definitely possible to get through 1st year at least (since this is all I have experience with so far) without too much stress.

2) Faculty here are actually surprisingly humble. The tutorial leaders all CHOOSE to be tutorial leaders and most of mine have been very invested in my learning. A select few I can even see as being mentors in the long term.

3) Lecture attendance is completely optional. Not that I know of, but I'm not the best person to ask about the new curriculum.

Cheers!

 

[hlancaster]

1) The students are by and far cooperative and collaborative. I really enjoy working/studying with my classmates, as they're some of the brightest people I've ever met and there are a lot of unique perspectives and backgrounds to learn from. I think stress is a different question, and I would say that stress boils down more to personal choices than a reflection of institutional culture - I've seen some people who are pretty much never stressed, and others who are perpetually stressed. It really depends on what kind of person you are. It's definitely possible to get through 1st year at least (since this is all I have experience with so far) without too much stress.

2) Faculty here are actually surprisingly humble. The tutorial leaders all CHOOSE to be tutorial leaders and most of mine have been very invested in my learning. A select few I can even see as being mentors in the long term.

3) Lecture attendance is completely optional. Not that I know of, but I'm not the best person to ask about the new curriculum.

Cheers!

Thanks, KDizzle! I really appreciate it. 🙂

 

[hlancaster]

Another question here, this time about the clinical rotations. On average, how many medical students are on the same service during core clerkships?

 

[hlancaster]

Bump.

 

[CrunchyTeddy]

So lets talk money: Would anyone choose a full-tuition scholarship (merit) from another very good school over HMS? Don't know what my package from HMS gonna be yet, but lets just imagine its not as good.

I'm sure everyone has a somewhat different opinion on this, but for me, yes, I would choose a full-tuition at Penn/Columbia or a full-ride at UCLA over Harvard. I would have to think about it for other schools (Duke or Wash U or Chicago)... But that's just a matter of personal preference and biases.

I'm hoping not to get ripped to shreds for this post, haha. Please be kind 🙂

 

[phunky]

Do you guys happen to know how many people usually get accepted off the waitlist?

Not many. Harvard has the highest retention rate of any school by far.

 

[DR MOM]

So lets talk money: Would anyone choose a full-tuition scholarship (merit) from another very good school over HMS? Don't know what my package from HMS gonna be yet, but lets just imagine its not as good.

I'm choosing a need based full tuition scholarship over HMS, but it wasn't just for the money. (Actually, Harvard is the only school that I didn't get a financial aid award letter from so I don't know what the money would have looked like. They wanted way more paperwork than any other school and the way my parents keep track of their financial info made it a mess. I made my final decision before I tracked down everything they needed.)

I find myself having small pangs of regret over giving up my seat, especially because some of my favorite folks from this cycle are choosing HMS, but I think I made the best choice for myself and my family. All of y'all who are choosing Harvard - have an amazing time!

 

[yellowfish]

Another question here, this time about the clinical rotations. On average, how many medical students are on the same service during core clerkships?

hlancaster, if this is an important question for you, PM me and I will try to get details from a 3rd or 4th year.

 

[YamNMangos]

Not many. Harvard has the highest retention rate of any school by far.

I heard that Harvard has a very small waitlist compared to many other schools, so if you are on it you have a pretty decent shot of getting off. Even though Harvard has the highest retention rate, they take that into account so they don't over enroll (some schools will accept 2x as many students as they have spots, while Harvard only accepted 194 for 165 spots).

 

[Espadaleader]

@TheKDizzle: You've done a great job on this forum for HMS.

 

[hlancaster]

hlancaster, if this is an important question for you, PM me and I will try to get details from a 3rd or 4th year.

Thanks, TheKDizzle! I sent you a PM. I really appreciate all your help on this thread 🙂

 

[lalax]

I'm sure everyone has a somewhat different opinion on this, but for me, yes, I would choose a full-tuition at Penn/Columbia or a full-ride at UCLA over Harvard. I would have to think about it for other schools (Duke or Wash U or Chicago)... But that's just a matter of personal preference and biases.

I'm hoping not to get ripped to shreds for this post, haha. Please be kind 🙂

I gave up a full-ride at one of those schools for Harvard, there were personal reasons (relationship/location preferences) but I am pretty sure I made the right choice.

 

[lalax]

I'm choosing a need based full tuition scholarship over HMS, but it wasn't just for the money. (Actually, Harvard is the only school that I didn't get a financial aid award letter from so I don't know what the money would have looked like. They wanted way more paperwork than any other school and the way my parents keep track of their financial info made it a mess. I made my final decision before I tracked down everything they needed.)

I find myself having small pangs of regret over giving up my seat, especially because some of my favorite folks from this cycle are choosing HMS, but I think I made the best choice for myself and my family. All of y'all who are choosing Harvard - have an amazing time!

We might have been in similar situations... HMS requested information that made no sense in the context of my family's financial situation. I made it clear that it made no sense and filled it out as best as possible. It gave me the impression that they don't have a clear picture of what happens below a certain income level, but my award (maximum aid you can get, I believe) looked pretty much like what they say on their fin aid website. Ultimately, a lot of personal reasons went into my decision of choosing Harvard over other schools, same as you with choosing another school over Harvard. I am sure you made the right choice for yourself, good luck! 🙂

 

[yellowfish]

@DR MOM Genuinely out of curiosity, what paperwork did HMS need for financial aid that other schools you applied to didn't?

 

[DR MOM]

@DR MOM Genuinely out of curiosity, what paperwork did HMS need for financial aid that other schools you applied to didn't?

It was just a lot of supporting tax documents beyond the actual tax return/IRS retrieval tool, but my parents didn't file itemized deductions, so they did not have any of the schedules that Harvard wanted. They also wanted proof of my father's disability benefits, social security etc., which would not be hard to track down but was an extra hoop to navigate, especially since I don't live near my folks and they're a little technologically inept.

 

[lalax]

It was just a lot of supporting tax documents beyond the actual tax return/IRS retrieval tool, but my parents didn't file itemized deductions, so they did not have any of the schedules that Harvard wanted. They also wanted proof of my father's disability benefits, social security etc., which would not be hard to track down but was an extra hoop to navigate, especially since I don't live near my folks and they're a little technologically inept.

For me they wanted some of those as well as a cash flow worksheet (literally asking how much my parents spend on entertainment, food, electricity, beauty salons... it was a bit ridiculous).

 

[yellowfish]

For me they wanted some of those as well as a cash flow worksheet (literally asking how much my parents spend on entertainment, food, electricity, beauty salons... it was a bit ridiculous).

Hmm, that's strange - when I applied all I needed was FAFSA, Need Access, copies of my parents' federal tax returns, and a one page online HMS financial aid application. I'm not sure why you guys would have to submit additional materials... like a cash flow worksheet?

 

[futuredoc2zero1four]

HMS consistently has one of the strongest, if not the strongest, matches every year. Someone mentioned that the HMS Class of 2018 will have our clinical year overlap with that of the Class of 2019, due to HMS' upcoming curriculum changes. Here's to hoping that this doubling up of the clinical year won't negatively affect the outcome of what our class match list will be when that time comes!

 

[hlancaster]

HMS consistently has one of the strongest, if not the strongest, matches every year. Someone mentioned that the HMS Class of 2018 will have our clinical year overlap with that of the Class of 2019, due to HMS' upcoming curriculum changes. Here's to hoping that this doubling up of the clinical year won't negatively affect the outcome of what our class match list will be when that time comes!

Hmm yeah, I'm not too thrilled by the prospect of two classes rotating at the same time...

 

[umms2017]

Hmm yeah, I'm not too thrilled by the prospect of two classes rotating at the same time...

Just thought I'd chip in here, as UMMS's new curriculum will encounter a similar challenge in a few years. Vanderbilt I believe has this exact scenario with their clinical students right now, though it's a fairly smaller school than HMS & UMMS (~100 vs. 165-170). If you have any contacts at Vandy they're the experts on the issue; with their gradual/2-phase new curriculum roll-out, they're actually going to have the same challenge with two classes, 0.5-year each. Because Partners is such a huge hospital system, I wouldn't think the capacity issue will be a big factor for HMS students (speaking solely from speculation), but it'll nonetheless be a crazy year for anyone in that transition time.

 

[Espadaleader]

I think the 1 year curriculum is a bad idea. That's counter to the culture of HMS.

 

[meepA]

Anyone aware of any wait list movement? From either NP or HST?

 

[CZSlash]

.

 

[superman3]

Any possibility of waitlist movement? This is one of the only schools I know of, which can possibly have a trickle effect at my school of interest.