[2017-2018] Emergency Medicine Rank Order List Thread

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Adding to the drinking game

anytime someone says a residency program is a "powerhouse" or "legendary" = 1 shot
"their residents can go anywhere" = 1 shot
"I'll come out of here prepared ready to handle anything" = 2 shots
Any mention of Slovis = 3 shots

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"I was surprised that Denver isn't malignant" = 1 shot
 
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Significant other didn't like the city = finish drink
 
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EM program with too much trauma?

Doesn't exist in the United States.

Even programs at the busiest trauma centers usually share patients with surgery or only rotate for a few months during residency. Add on to that the fact that most patients nowadays have minor injuries that don't require any acute interventions and the sad reality is that most residents graduate with very little experience managing severe traumas except for learning a few basic ATLS algorithms. People like to say trauma is algorithmic on here because thats the only thing they ever learned in residency.

Also you can't compare DKA to trauma because one is a specific disease process while the other is literally thousands of different disease processes each with their own separate management strategies. A more realistic analogy would be the number of DKA cases versus stab heart cases needed during residency to be comfortable managing these patients. Both are life threatening conditions that can be managed by emergency physicians with appropriate training and experience however while all EM residencies will give you the chance to manage hundreds of DKA patients only a select few EM residencies will give you the chance to manage even one stab heart patient. The biggest difference between residency programs today isn't the exposure to sick medical patients but the exposure to sick trauma patients.

Eh. Nothing that you’re saying is false, but the point about trauma being algorithmic is still very valid.

As a counterpoint to your reply, you can’t simulate DKA in a live tissue lab (ie pigs), but you can simulate a stab wound to the heart. In my first week of intern year I was practicing crics, thoracotamies, and repairing stab wounds to the heart on a live pig. Incidentally, and for the sake of transparency/full disclosure, I also got to perform or assist in these same procedures a month later on humans during my trauma rotation.

There’s a reason (or many reasons) you can simulate certain procedures (crics, thoracotamies) and meet graduation requirements. Part of it is convenience, of course, as not every EM resident will get the opportunity to perform the full number of required crics and thoracotamies outside of simulation. But the other reason is because every EM physician doesn’t earnestly need to perform these procedures in the ED to be “ready” to perform them should the need arise.

Consider the perimortem C. Technically within our scope of practice, but who among us performed one during residency? I’m asking this on SDN, so of course 100% of respondents will have done several perimortem C’s during residency or even med school/premed/undergrad/pre-K.

But seriously. The amount of trauma exposure you need during residency to become competent as an attending, and whether or not it ought to be integrated vs standalone trauma months is a hot topic, especially amongst M4s on the trail or prioritizing their rank list.

There’s more than one way to get...comfortable (for lack of a better word) with performing some of the rarer algorithmic things within our scope of practice. Other things, like DKA, are more difficult to simulate, and are more commonly seen in day-to-say practice.

I think the point of the person to whom you’re replying is more valid than your reply would have our young, impressionable M4s believe.

The algorithmic nature of trauma, and the ability to simulate some of the rarer procedures, gives trainees a wide variety of very suitable options for places to pursue training. I wouldn’t recommend someone heavily prioritize a program simply because it has a higher rate of ED thoracotamies.
 
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Social chug for "#1 factor in this rank list: fit"
 
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Submitted anonymously via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 220s, Step 2: 260s
EM rotation grades: Honors/Honors
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: No
Medical school region: East coast
Anything else that made you more competitive: Prior work experience (health IT, consulting). Definitely above average involvement in extracurriculars/projects... I think a lot of that is a little too unique for me to post here though.

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: East coast cities, chose to interview as far west as Chicago. Wanted strong mentorship, leadership development, aspirational co-residents. Interested in ED management. Originally thought 3 vs. 4 year would be a big factor, ultimately ended up not mattering as much to me when I looked back. I didn't use any scoring or anything, just took notes on interview day and used those thoughts and gut to make my decision. I did get in touch with residents/faculty at all 5 of my top 5 which was helpful. Honestly, I would be absolutely ecstatic about anything in my top 7.

1) NYU/Bellevue Medical Center
(+) - I found the pedigree and social mission of the program to be really admirable. The new leadership with Dr. Femia and Branzetti I think is a welcome change, and they have brought a lot of success to the department. The residents all work hard, but even so were super happy about their training. Morning report was a really interesting case. Strong mentorship in admin/ops/management. Just got a great vibe. Also NYC is amazing. Word on the street is "low" acuity, but when I actually asked about their procedure numbers/# of alpha trauma per shift, it wasnt that off from my home institution and I felt like that was adequate. Addition of the Brooklyn location will def give a more knife/gun club experience. Residents were really interesting.

(-) - COL in NYC is high, but that doesn't really bother me coming from other expensive east coast cities. 18/12s the first two years.


2) Mount Sinai School of Medicine - New York
(+) - Dr. Shah is the man. Elmhurst is a really interesting place to practice, though it can be very chaotic at times. Like that the class size is large. Lots of interesting things going on in the department. Residents placed very well. Great reputation. Love NYC!

(-) - commute to Elmhurst is brutal. Practice environment at Sinai is challenging, for reasons that seem institutional. ED at Sinai is about the third of the size it should be given their volume. 4 years.


3) Harvard Affiliated Emergency Medicine Residency at Beth Israel Deaconess
(+) - Love the 3+1 structure. I think, for better or for worse, the Harvard name does carry. But, the residents and faculty were very down to earth. People have very interesting opportunities there. The dinner was SUPER chill and fun. Dr. Rosen is a stoic man, but I think he takes his job seriously and does it well - which I appreciate. Probably my favorite program on the list, but just think NYC > Boston. HAve to rotate at a lot of places, but I think that prepares you well.


4) Harvard Affiliated Emergency Medicine Residency at Brigham and Women's
(+) - great pedigree, very very interesting faculty and residents. People really are shooting to change the game in EM here. Both institutions have interesting things to offer. Again, Harvard name definitely carries - but I think the BIDMC residents were more down to earth.

(-) - 4 years. I can see working with the other specialties in the hospital being challenging.


5) Johns Hopkins Hospital
(+) - they really have their **** together here. Clearly a very organized team, and Dr. Regan is a very high energy PD. Really like the FAST program structure (just half time clinical 4th year). I actually like Baltimore alot. Chair spent the whole day with us which was amazing. Residents were down to earth, very funny. Low COL in Baltimore. Honestly, just had a lot of fun here.

(-) - mentors said the EM reputation here wasn't as great as the other top 4... but don't know how much that matters esp when considering the Hopkins reputation. Dealing with other Hopkins specialties. 4 years.


6) University of Chicago Medicine
(+) - Babcock is amazing. This was my first interview, so kind of hard to remember everything. Liked the emphasis on diversity. Great use of 3 years, with sick patients. The new ED is literally insane. Lots of trauma. Great resident placement. Interesting residency focuses in ops/admin. Flight program!

(-) - Chicago is a bit too far for me. Also my impression was though there is a lot of interest in developing residents in EM focus areas, there wasn't a lot of accomplished faculty to serve as mentors.


7) McGaw Medical Center of Northwestern University
(+) - Produces rockstars. John Bailtz is going to be an incredible PD, and a very nice guy. The other residents were interesting with very unique backgrounds/goals. Awesome placement post residency. Dr. Adams is a successful chair, and would be a great mentor.

(-) - seemed to me like everyone there was from the chicago area. A bit far for me. 4 years. Might get less trauma with UChi now a LEvel 1 center? But seems like enough to go around.


8) Mount Sinai St. Luke's Roosevelt Hospital Center
(+) - SUPER chill residents, had a great time at the pre-event, and throughout the day with them. Dr. Egan is great, emphasis on wellness is clear. They do still work a lot though. Two different sites that give good case mix. Mt Sinai reputation. Love NYC!

(-) - not great trauma exposure, thinking about going to shock trauma or Elmhurst. The big thing was the lack of mentorship or focus in the areas I'm interested in. Residents were all nice and chill, but I wanted to be surrounded by go-getters.


9) New York Presbyterian Hospital
(+) - PD is very accomplished. Great reputation from NY Pres and Columbia/Cornell. New ED at Columbia is beautiful. Lots of interesting work in the department.

(-) - Heard some off putting things during the interview day that made me think the culture was a bit negative here. Heard the same from folks close to the program. I imagine this changes with resident turnover, but I think too much of a risk to rank this much higher. 4 years.


10) Georgetown University Hospital/Washington Hospital Center
(+) - DC is a great city. Dr. Bhat is great guy. Friendly residents. City/County experience at WHC.

(-) - MedStar is still a developing system. Didn't feel like the pedigree was as high as others on the list.


11) Jacobi/Montefiore - Albert Einstein College of Medicine
(+) - Very well trained residents. Trial by fire. Everyone seems close since they are fighting from the trenches together. Very interesting clinical work goes on in the ED. In an interesting part of the city, lots of diversity.

(-) - Bronx is very far north of the city. Just didn't fit in with the residents, and their reason for being there. There was a level of intensity there I just didn't vibe with. I think this would be a great option for lots of people, just not me.


12) Hospital of University of Pennsylvania
(+) - most beautiful facilities I have seen on the trail. Great support staff. Interesting opportunities at CHOP.

(-) - Just a really weird vibe here. Seems like residents didn't really want to talk to applicants, tour guide explicitly said they didn't want to give the tour. Hard to put a finger on what it was exactly, but just a very odd vibe.


Anything else to add: I feel very fortunate with the places I interviewed. Most places I would be very happy to work at. I think given my lower Step 1 score, it really speaks to the importance of the SLOEs in interviews. All said and done, I received 28/30 interviews and know folks with better scores/grades that didn't get as many. I also think reaching out to residents after the interview was super helpful, I got a lot of inside knowledge that way.

Invited to interview, but declined: UCLA-Harbor, UCSF, Jefferson, Christiana, JAckson Memorial, Maimo, UT Austin, Univ of Washington, UPMC, Stanford, USC/LAC, WashU, GW, UMD

Rejected by: Emory, Temple
 
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Writing "Harvard Affiliate" instead of just Brigham and Women's or BI Deaconess- 1 shot... from a gun...
 
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Can we get all the previously/current DO programs added to the list? Some of us aren't 260 applicants and had to do what it takes it to make EM happen.
 
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Can we get all the previously/current DO programs added to the list? Some of us aren't 260 applicants and had to do what it takes it to make EM happen.

When I created the survey, I added all the programs I could see on ERAS (I think - Maybe I used the EMRA match directory, can't remember), so all of the former DO programs that were available for applications at that time should have been included. Sorry if I missed any, and sorry for completely neglecting the remaining osteopathic programs! Now that the survey is open, adding individual programs to the each of the 20 drop-downs is unfortunately a time-intensive process, so I would recommend that you just leave the program name blank and type it in the Comments free-text box along with your Pros and Cons.

I wanted to use drop-downs so that people would label their programs consistently, so that future applicants don't need to search this thread for every possible program nickname the way I did (e.g. running multiple searches for UAB vs Birmingham vs Alabama).
 
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Can we get all the previously/current DO programs added to the list? Some of us aren't 260 applicants and had to do what it takes it to make EM happen.
just being a devil's advocate but isn't getting a 260 also doing "what it takes to make EM happen"? ;)
 
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Can we get all the previously/current DO programs added to the list? Some of us aren't 260 applicants and had to do what it takes it to make EM happen.

I know your frustration, but that statement is a little offensive from the program standpoint.
 
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I know your frustration, but that statement is a little offensive from the program standpoint.
Sorry. Truly meant no offense. I meant to highlight that a lot of awesome DO programs are missing from the list and this thread could stand to see some rank lists of us below average applicants who also applied AOA.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Sorry. Truly meant no offense. I meant to highlight that a lot of awesome DO programs are missing from the list and this thread could stand to see some rank lists of us below average applicants who also applied AOA.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
No I know, I wasn't mad or anything, just wanted to point out that it could be misconstrued. No worries.
#safespace
 
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I miss rank lists.

I'm convinced that the chat on the spreadsheet is just two very opinionated people talking to each other.
 
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I miss rank lists.

I'm convinced that the chat on the spreadsheet is just two very opinionated people talking to each other.

I would post mine already, but I just completely changed it... again... for the 7th time. I'm actually convinced it's one person responding to their own posts.
 
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Submitted anonymously via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 260s, Step 2: 260s
EM rotation grades: High Pass/Honors/Honors
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: Yes
Medical school region: Midwest
Anything else that made you more competitive: Gold Humanism, Internal School awards

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Fit, prestige, location, MedEd


1) Carolinas Medical Center
Friendly PD, had a great conversation about FOAMed with Dr. Fox APD and I love his Pem Morsels FOAMed. Connected well with the residents. Not the biggest fan of Charlotte but had a great gut feeling. Love the new dimensions they are bringing to the residency with the upcoming podcast. Faculty let me take a look at their well designed focused carolinas compendium for each resident rotation and I like it a lot. A legendary prestigious program that is highly coveted and I don't think I have a chance but doesn't hurt to try and rank it #1. I would love to work with their med 1 mobile unit. Never been to the south so it would be an interesting experience with cheap COL and warm weather.


2) University of California Irvine Medical Center
While this program doesn't have any public FOAMed they have a strong emphasis on medical education and are doing unique changes to their own curriculum for the residents. Beautiful location and had a great time with the residents. With the small class size all the faculty and residents were super close. Have met some superb mentors that have trained at UCI who work very efficiently. I honestly wish they had a better website. Always wanted to move to southern california.


3) McGaw Medical Center of Northwestern University
Really friendly and welcoming group. The chief resident is big on medical education and I had a great talk with him. NU is one of the oldest programs with a huge alumni network. I can't believe that they sent out alumni to welcome their new residents on match day. The area for NU was great and put my worries about living in chicago aside. Dr. Bailitz is the man and super chill. The NUEM blog is very well put together. The feel of this program is like going to an IV league school. Don't really want to stay in the midwest.


4) Maricopa Medical Center
Best sell from the PD. Really got me energized. Love the outdoor bunch of residents. Nice that the program is very DO friendly. They are currently developing their FOAMed and it would be awesome to help increase it. A bit scared of the desert heat.


5) Stanford University Medical Center/Kaiser Permanente Medical Center
The Stanford pedigree name is awesome and the resources would be too much to deny. I have only heard great things about the kaiser system so it would be great to get my foot in the door. Commute and COL would suck.


6) Johns Hopkins Hospital
4 years of fighting off services will suck but probably realistic for future community job. Hopkins pedigree is hard to resist. Great pathology in baltimore. Amazing resources. Baltimore wasn't really for me


7) Vanderbilt University
Great didactics but left the interview with a feeling that the clinical training would be subpar and that I would be doing more classroom type synchronous learning. I learned best in clerkships and not my preclinical courses in med school and want a residency that emphasizes more bedside than didactic teaching.


8) Mount Sinai St. Luke's Roosevelt Hospital Center
Super friendly residents and great faculty. Best combination of clinical excellence and wellness. My SO doesn't want to live in NYC though as much.


9) Emory University School of Medicine
Residents looked exhausted but at least its 3 years. Heard that residents stay after shift a lot to chart or at home, they consult a lot, and atlanta just didn't feel right to me.


10) Los Angeles County - Harbor-UCLA Medical Center
Residents were close with each other but didn't make an effort to get to know the applicants. Red flag to me if you don't get to interview with the program director or any of the residency leadership. Loved the area though and it would be great to live on the beach.


11) Los Angeles County/University of Southern California Medical Center
Residents seemed burnt out and i've heard that its malignant. I would love to live experience LA but 4 years of having the worst schedule of any residency program just isn't worth it.


12) Hennepin County Medical Center
The strongest clinical training in the nation in my opinion. You come out a clinical beast and can get whatever job you want. Only reason this is ranked last is I have lived in the same area in the midwest for all my life and I need a change.


Invited to interview, but declined: UCLA olive view, UCSF, NYU, Mount Sinai, Regions, Christiana, U Chicago

Rejected by: UC Davis, UCSD, Denver, Temple, SUNY downstate, Orlando Health, UF Jacksonville
 
Submitted anonymously via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 240s, Step 2: 260s
EM rotation grades: Honors/Honors/Honors
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: No
Medical school region: East coast
Anything else that made you more competitive:

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: 3>4, Balancing nice cities/locales against COL, Not a fan of 12s or commutes. Looking to end up in academics.


1) Vanderbilt University
I have little to say about Vandy that hasn’t already been said on SDN. A well developed and well-refined program with a huge emphasis on education. Great catchment area and trauma exposure, with a name that will carry nationally. I’m interested in staying in academic medicine and love their focus on medical student education and developing their residents as educators. Loved the residents on my interview day—they seemed relaxed, happy, and close. Lots of ICU time and high quality off-service rotations. I dig that all 3 primary hospitals—Vandy Main, Peds, and VA are all in the same complex, minimizing time wasted commuting. Have nearly every fellowship in-house. Obviously Nashville is a fun place to live, but also excited about checking out the quality hiking and climbing nearby in the Smokies/The Red.

Cons: Pretty southern vibe to Nashville. New PD recently replaced Wrenn, who had been in the post since the residency’s inception. She is homegrown and was former APD, but will definitely have big shoes to fill. During my interview Slovis said he won’t be going anywhere during the next 3 years, so this was reassuring.


2) Temple University
School of Medicine Fell in love with this program and the residents on my interview here. Badass county vibe getting a big slice of Philly's trauma and sick underserved patients. Faculty seemed really down to earth and like enthusiastic educators. Love the COL and vibe of Philly—super affordable city living as compared to NYC or Boston. Felt like I clicked with the people here more so than anywhere else.

Cons: Lack of patient diversity. Further from nature/wilderness. Denver-style rapid circadian progression shift scheduling seems okay, but less than ideal. Schedule makes it harder to schedule weekend activities with SO. Probably the highest shift count among places on the top half of my list.


3) Los Angeles County - Harbor-UCLA Medical Center
Was not expecting to like this program as much as I did, especially after interviewing at UCLA-OV. A renowned program serving a sick county population. Loved the pathology, the strength/reputation of the EM program, patient demographics/español, 8-10 hour shifts, reasonable commute without ridiculous traffic, emphasis on education with teaching rounds at every shift, and happy and relaxed residents. This program really had everything I was looking for. Liked the south bay area of LA so much more than northern LA—seemed more down to earth. Though I’m not an LA person, this slice of it seemed pretty tolerable and I like all of the great hiking/climbing/national parks within weekend trip distances.

Cons: Higher COL, inevitable LA traffic. 4th year is pretty new and the PD told me they added it because applicants wanted an extra year (???). Didn’t seem like the best use of a 4th year, but the 4th year schedule looks pretty cushy and many residents moonlight, especially in 4th year.


4) Harvard Affiliated Emergency Medicine Residency at Beth Israel Deaconess
Super sick patients, Really impressed by 3rd years running the department and supervising junior residents. Love the 3+1 option to buff up my resume and earn twice a resident’s salary in place of a traditional 4th year of residency. Strong program leadership and well established department within the hospital.

Cons: Boston COL is ridiculous, COLD, traffic. Too many outside hospital rotations. Lack of underserved patient population at BI. Everything shuts down pretty early in Boston = difficult to grab post-swing shift drinks.


5) University of New Mexico
Really loved it here. Super sick patients, appreciative and underserved patient population. Awesome resus area and huge cohort of EM/CC faculty to provide high level critical care education. EM is strong within the hospital. Access to the outdoors is unparalleled, COL is fantastic, and love being able to take weekend trips to CO for skiing, a quick trip to Santa Fe for a cooler flavor of NM, and countless opportunities for hiking/climbing in the national parks and wilderness of the southwest.

Cons: Grads predominantly go into the community. Of the few that have done fellowships, most have come back to UNM. Given that I don’t see myself settling down in New Mexico but do want to end up in academics, this is concerning. Definitely less culture/nightlife than other locales, but I thought the city was cool enough, with plenty of microbreweries and a solid selection of restaurants. Didn’t love the PD.


6) Cooper Hospital
Definitely felt like a kindred spirit (though also like a little brother) to Temple. Loved that as compared to Temple there was more diverse pathology, with not only patients from the war-zone of Camden, but also referred from all across southern NJ and from the MD Anderson Cancer Center. Faculty and residents seemed great and like a group I could definitely fit in with. EM is strong within the hospital. Can live in Philly with a 15 minute commute.

Cons: For whatever reason, doesn’t seem to have the name brand or recognition. Further from nature/wilderness. All around solid program, but less impressive sell than others.


7) Harvard Affiliated Emergency Medicine Residency at Brigham and Women's
Was more impressed with this program, especially MGH, than I thought I would be. Big name and impressive alumni placement. More than any other program on my list, grads seem to be able to get academic attending jobs out of residency without a fellowship

Cons: While MGH seemed pretty badass, couldn’t get as excited about BWH, and definitely got this sense from the residents as well. Felt like I didn’t match up with the average resident here who founded an NGO, won the Nobel Peace Prize, etc. Same qualms about Boston as mentioned above for BIDMC. 4 years.


8) University of North Carolina
Cool dual hospital system with complicated academic medical center patients and busy community hospital with more EM autonomy and more bread and butter. Warm weather, weekend trip to the beach. Solid and well-reputed program.

Cons: 40 minute commute between hospitals is a bummer. Lack of county population or penetrating trauma. Prefer a county/academic hybrid to a community/academic one. Seemed like a good residency all around, but nothing really drew me in. Area is okay but probably a bit too suburban for my tastes


9) University of California Davis
Loved the location more than anything for this program, with easy access to Tahoe, wine country, shoreline, and Yosemite. Sacramento gets a lot of hate, but seemed like a nice medium-size city with a good food scene and lots of great nature nearby. Great catchment area, solid and well-established program.

Cons: Huge expansion of residency class starting last year with Air Force sponsored residency spots= scheduling/rotations in flux. Complete absence of department chair during interview day and lack of interview with the PD/APDs. Nothing really set this program apart to me.


10) Brown University
Well-developed, well-respected program. Great pathology. Seems like a good use of the extra year in the resus resident during 3rd year. Cool opportunities in med ed.

Cons: 4 years. Not a big fan of Providence-- a little too sleepy for me. I can be forgiving of a lack of nightlife/city stuff if there is nature or mountains nearby, but that’s not the case here.


11) University of Washington Emergency Medicine Residency Program
Had an exceedingly off-putting interview with the PD. Still a newer program without much of an alumni network. Would have loved to rank this higher 2/2 outdoors opportunities and family nearby.


12) Maine Medical Center
Cool program, but I don’t want to live in Maine. Residents seem to have chosen the residency for the location among those that I spoke to. Most seem to end up in the community; I think I want somewhere a bit more academic.


13) Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center / Olive View UCLA Medical Center
High COL, terrible commute to OV, 12 hour shifts suck. OV seems great, but UCLA/Ronald Reagan seemed like consultant wrangling > education. Not a big fan of (northern) LA in general. Great program, just not my cup of tea.


14) Denver Health
No need to beat a dead horse with this one. Don’t think the program is malignant, but they don’t hide the fact that they are one of the hardest working residencies. I prefer more of a balance in my work life balance, and don’t think I need this level of intensity in my training to be a good EM physician. Would have loved to live in CO otherwise.


Invited to interview, but declined: Jefferson, U Mass, Wake Forest, Loma Linda, Maryland, Hopkins, Pitt, Christiana, OHSU, Baystate, Utah

Applied but withdrew before hearing anything: Fresno, U of AZ South, U Penn

Rejected by: LAC-USC, University of AZ (bummed about this one), BMC, Carolinas, UC Irvine
 
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Is anyone else kind of depressed how immature and horrible the soon to be EM resident crew is based off the chat in the google doc. These people are literally the youtube trolls of medicine when given the blanket of anonymity.
 
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Is anyone else kind of depressed how immature and horrible the soon to be EM resident crew is based off the chat in the google doc. These people are literally the youtube trolls of medicine when given the blanket of anonymity.
That could literally be two people trolling each other (and every genuine poster in there). I don't think I know of one anonymous posting board that doesn't devolve into being immature and horrible. Hell, the dermatology spreadsheet was essentially nuked by trolls.
 
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That could literally be two people trolling each other (and every genuine poster in there). I don't think I know of one anonymous posting board that doesn't devolve into being immature and horrible. Hell, the dermatology spreadsheet was essentially nuked by trolls.
Anonymous people like that are like our patients with the patently bull**** stories - when they say, "Doc, you're not gonna believe this", I say to myself (silently), "You're right - I'm not". These people (like the patients) think that they are at least as smart as anyone else reading that. They can't believe anyone else is smarter, more clever, or more witty. Or, alternately, that no one else is smarter than they are.

If you want to know how important someone is, just ask them. And, then, therein lies the rub.

The value of anonymous input is the same as the value put to the name "anonymous". No skin in the game, nothing ventured, nothing lost. It's all ass hole treasure.
 
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This year's ROL thread is super weak. Only 4 pages by the middle of february? Low expectations for the incoming intern class.
 
Is anyone else kind of depressed how immature and horrible the soon to be EM resident crew is based off the chat in the google doc. These people are literally the youtube trolls of medicine when given the blanket of anonymity.

In my humble opinion, the type of person going into EM is changing/has changed. 99% of the older docs ive met seem very cool and chill, but seems like half of the younger/fresh grad docs ive met are more uptight/typeA/gunnerish. A relative who is a doc in a SDG has told me they keep having trouble with new grads/millennials not being team players, not wanting to work, etc. I hate to generalize but its an interesting trend even if anecdotal.
 
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The gunner mentality I think comes from the perception that EM is a great lifestyle speciality (great hourly pay, low hours, no call, etc.). Any speciality that has that perception becomes competitive and therefore self selects for competitive people. The lifestyle aspect is just over sold in my opinion. Nights, evenings, MACRA, Anthem not paying ED visits, reimbursement becoming stagnant, CMGs buying great democratic groups, etc. is rarely discussed on rotations or even in residency for that matter. Also most residencies are pretty chill compared to other competitive specialties. You get some hard months (ICU, cards, medicine) followed by some ED months (which are fun initially) and then super chill months like US, peds anesthesia. Once you get out and your life is 15 shifts a month for the rest of your life things change a bit. Especially if your democratic group loses a contract and now you are working for some corporate group that cares about you making them money.

The millennial attitude is occurring all over medicine/surgery. No one wants to work. Everyone wants 20 hrs a week, 500k a year, an impeccable malpractice environment, mountains and a beach within 45 min of where they are living, etc. Again, that attitude is a CMG's wet dream. They will either kill all groups who hire people like that or trick them into working for them because they provide 4 weeks of paid paternity leave (woo whoo!!). Then they will work for 140/hr and seeing 3 pph while some C-suite/regional director is making 750k-1M a year off of their work. Or they will burn out in three years and bitch and moan about it on SDN.

I love where I practice and that I am doing EM. It isn't perfect, but it is a good job. Many of these realities I learned after getting out or near the end of residency when I was interviewing for jobs. You just need to be prepared for the reality of EM and either save like WCI recommends and get out early or adjust your expectations and realize EM is likely not the "lifestyle" specialty you think it is.
 
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Jesus. Calm down guys. We’re not talking about the incompatibility of the millennial attitude (whatever that buzz word means to you) and EM. We’re talking about trolling in the chat section with random insults and bickering.
 
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This is already worse than the trauma conversation.
 
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The gunner mentality I think comes from the perception that EM is a great lifestyle speciality (great hourly pay, low hours, no call, etc.). Any speciality that has that perception becomes competitive and therefore self selects for competitive people. The lifestyle aspect is just over sold in my opinion. Nights, evenings, MACRA, Anthem not paying ED visits, reimbursement becoming stagnant, CMGs buying great democratic groups, etc. is rarely discussed on rotations or even in residency for that matter. Also most residencies are pretty chill compared to other competitive specialties. You get some hard months (ICU, cards, medicine) followed by some ED months (which are fun initially) and then super chill months like US, peds anesthesia. Once you get out and your life is 15 shifts a month for the rest of your life things change a bit. Especially if your democratic group loses a contract and now you are working for some corporate group that cares about you making them money.

The millennial attitude is occurring all over medicine/surgery. No one wants to work. Everyone wants 20 hrs a week, 500k a year, an impeccable malpractice environment, mountains and a beach within 45 min of where they are living, etc. Again, that attitude is a CMG's wet dream. They will either kill all groups who hire people like that or trick them into working for them because they provide 4 weeks of paid paternity leave (woo whoo!!). Then they will work for 140/hr and seeing 3 pph while some C-suite/regional director is making 750k-1M a year off of their work. Or they will burn out in three years and bitch and moan about it on SDN.

I love where I practice and that I am doing EM. It isn't perfect, but it is a good job. Many of these realities I learned after getting out or near the end of residency when I was interviewing for jobs. You just need to be prepared for the reality of EM and either save like WCI recommends and get out early or adjust your expectations and realize EM is likely not the "lifestyle" specialty you think it is.

As soon as an older person starts down the 'millennials are all lazy and back in my day..' train of thought you can rest assured they probably get most of their social commentary through ****ty facebook groups. Or, you know, our generation really is single handedly ruining the housing market, job market, and the everything else market. Give it a rest.
 
I think it's more the racism, sexism, and general vile comments people are engaging in. Wouldn't matter what generation.

Anyway, back to rank lists
 
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This year's ROL thread is super weak. Only 4 pages by the middle of february? Low expectations for the incoming intern class.
After last year I bet everyone is waiting until after submission lol

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The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

~ Socrates circa 350 BC
 
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Submitted anonymously via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 240s, Step 2: 260s
EM rotation grades: Honors/Honors/Honors
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: Yes
Medical school region:
Anything else that made you more competitive: Good mix of research, teaching experience, a lot of outreach/community service

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Location near friends/family, fit with the residents, diversity of patient population, ideally a good mix of county and tertiary care sites.


1) Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center / Olive View UCLA Medical Center
Pros- Really warm and friendly faculty, had a ton of fun getting to know the residents at the post-interview dinner. Probably the coolest and friendliest residents in the county. Love the mix of training sites at UCLA and Olive view. Tons of elective time, and many opportunities to travel. Location close to family and friends.

Cons- 12s all 4 years, long commute between sites, less exposure to trauma than some of the other programs on my list.


2) Los Angeles County - Harbor-UCLA Medical Center
Pros- Great county hospital with really high acuity and accomplished faculty with a big focus on teaching. 8 hour shifts with teaching rounds during sign out sounds. Location close to family and friends.

Cons - Lack of exposure to a tertiary care center, and the fact that the residents, while really nice, didn't seem very interested in meeting the applicants for the most part. Very little time in the ED during intern year, and didn't feel like the 4th year adds much value to your education.


3) John H. Stroger, Jr. Hospital of Cook County
Pros- Another great county hospital with really high acuity. Patients here are extremely sick. The diversity in patient pathology is insane, and you'll surely see anything and everything here. The residency leadership team and the faculty I met on the interview were really warm and welcoming, and there's an obvious dedication to teaching. 8 hours all 4 years. Chicago.

Cons - Only a couple residents showed up to the pre-interview dinner. Lack of exposure to tertiary care center, very little time in the ED during intern year, 3 floor months during intern year (although the HIV/Infectious disease month sounds like a great opportunity to see some rare pathology and get practice doing LPs). Peds experience seems weak here, and I don't like how the trauma is set up in blocks in years 2, 3, and 4. Strict graduated responsibility, although that allows you to have more autonomy with the patients that you do see in any given year.


4) University of Cincinnati College of Medicine
Pros - My favorite program when looking at the program by itself. Commitment to forging leaders is evident. Great progression of responsibility here, get to fly in helicopters, supervisory role in 4th year with a ton of teaching opportunities. Some of the friendliest residents and definitely the most welcoming faculty I encountered on the trail. Integrated peds at one of the best pediatric EM programs in the county. The training here is the most well-rounded with opportunities for excellent clinical training in a hybrid county/tertiary care center environment, teaching and leadership opportunities, research opportunities, and great exposure to every aspect of the field of EM. 6.5 months of elective time. In my opinion, the best and most well-rounded program in the county.

Cons - biggest con is the location. Concerned that maybe the diversity in patient population isn't as great as the other programs on my list.


5) Denver Health
Nothing else to add about this program that hasn't already been said. Amazing training, well-deserved reputation. Just really far from home, and I'm not really into skiing.


6) Washington University St. Louis/Barnes-Jewish Hospital
Pros - the most underrated program in the country in my opinion. This program has it all: it is the safety net hospital for St. Louis and an academic powerhouse. Insane trauma exposure. Interns get to participate in the resus bay. Awesome residency leadership team. Really cool residents. A ton of great research coming out of this program. Great emphasis on teaching you to be an educator, a lot of elective time, and reportedly ~100% first choice job placement for graduates. I truly believe this program will be regarded as one of the best programs in the country in the next few years.

Cons - location is not the best, and like Cincinnati, I'm also concerned that the patient population here isn't very diverse.


7) Vanderbilt University
Again, nothing to really add about this program that hasn't already been said. Well-deserved reputation, amazing teaching, warmest faculty on the interview trail.


8) Harvard Affiliated Emergency Medicine Residency at Beth Israel Deaconess
Pros - the optional 4th year is amazing. It really allows you to set yourself up well for an academic job, having a year of experience as an academic attending under your belt when it's time to apply for jobs. Really sick patients; people seem to think that there's a huge lack of underserved patients/acuity at this hospital -- it's just not true. ED always gets first crack at procedures when it comes to things like ortho reductions, etc. Had the most fun with these residents at the dinner than at any other interview. Really cool, yet smart and accomplished people. Residency leadership team is great. Very well-rounded program. Great location.

Cons - ton of different sites can be annoying, and it seems like you might need a car...having a car is really hard and inconvenient in Boston. COL sucks.


9) Henry Ford Hospital
Pros - best program in Michigan in my opinion. Among the earliest EM residency programs (1976) with an alumni base all over the country, with a great presence on both coasts. One of the few programs in the country where EM completely runs the show on trauma, all the time. Great mix of county/tertiary care patient population, being in Detroit, with a ton of trauma and really sick patients. Henry Ford is also a huge transplant and referral center, so great exposure to tertiary care patients as well (LVADs, cancer patients, transplant patients, etc.). EM very well respected in the hospital. Ton of research opportunities, huge critical care emphasis, with 5 total ICU months (6 if you choose to do NeuroICU as an intern for your Neurosciences block). One of the best 3 year programs in the country.

Cons - Detroit isn't the best place to live, but definitely not as bad as people think. Some of the faculty who interviewed me weren't the friendliest. Didn't get along with some of the 3rd years, but the 1st and 2nd years were awesome.


10) Hennepin County Medical Center
Not much to add that hasn't already been said. Amazing program with well-deserved reputation. Just not my people here. Minnesota is a freezer.


11) Georgetown University Hospital/Washington Hospital Center
Pros- really efficient 3 year program. My favorite PD of the trail...so warm and welcoming, and clearly a huge resident advocate. The rest of the residency leadership team were great as well. Awesome residents with a huge showing at the pre-interview dinner. Take advantage of their location in DC with opportunities for health policy work...and they pay for you to get a masters of public policy at Georgetown if you choose to do the health policy fellowship. Great mix of county population at Washington hospital center and tertiary care at Georgetown hospital. Really felt like I fit in here. Great exposure to peds EM. Washington DC is an awesome city.

Cons- mentors didn't feel like the clinical training was on the same pedigree as the programs above it on my list. Otherwise no real cons.


12) University of Michigan
Pros- Some of the nicest faculty I met. Exposure to academic, community, and county. Residents were pretty cool as well. Ann Arbor is an awesome little city. Among the best programs for those interested in critical care or research (reportedly #1 in NIH funding for Emergency Departments), and this is an academic powerhouse that will set you up well for endeavors such administration, education, etc with their professional development tracks. Great name in and out of EM.

Cons - consult galore at the University site. Good balance with having 40% of your shifts at the community site, but to my understanding, you only get 1 EM month per year at the county site...I want more county.


13) Johns Hopkins Hospital
Pros - the name alone is a huge pro... Great use of the 4th year, especially for those interested in fellowship/academics. Really cool residents. Unlimited resources. Tertiary/quaternary care facility but at the same time get the indigent population of Baltimore. Great research opportunities. Awesome PD. Saw Hopkins grads as faculty at many of the programs I interviewed at, so seem to be relatively sought after for academic jobs.

Cons - I just did not vibe with the faculty who interviewed me. Seemed almost snooty to me. I've heard from multiple sources that EM is not well-respected in the hospital. Some of the interns were very open about being tired and burned out.


14) University of Pittsburgh Medical Center
Pros- great mix of patient population at the different sites. Excellent EMS. Really cool and fun intern class. Excellent reputation in and out of EM (but especially in EM). Tons of research opportunities if you want it. Very efficient 3 year program. Really friendly residency leadership team.

Cons- Pittsburgh is really gloomy. Not really into EMS. Do a ton of shifts, and some of the residents were open about being burned out. This was one of those programs where something just didn't feel right but I couldn't put my finger on it.


Invited to interview, but declined: Carolinas Medical Center, Maricopa, Temple, Jacobi/Montefiore, Brown, Yale, Ohio State, Case Western (MetroHealth), Regions, Jackson Memorial, Mayo Clinic, MCW, University of Wisconsin, UT southwestern

Rejected by: Highland, UCSF, Stanford, USC/LAC, Baylor, BUMC, Duke, North Carolina, Emory, Icahn Mt. Sinai, NYU, Indy, HAEMR MGH/BWH, Northwestern, UChicago, UCSD, Maryland
 
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I had a bad feeling that because of the PD from Brookdale last year who called out the student that ranked their program low, that it would affect students this year in terms of sharing their lists. Hopefully, if there are any students who interviewed at my shop who don't want to submit their list because they know I read these boards, please know that I'm always interested in feedback and legitimately won't be offended about anything you may write or say. I'm not going to know who you are anyways, and our rank list is already finalized. Just wanted to make sure everyone knew that!
 
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I had a bad feeling that because of the PD from Brookdale last year who called out the student that ranked their program low, that it would affect students this year in terms of sharing their lists. Hopefully, if there are any students who interviewed at my shop who don't want to submit their list because they know I read these boards, please know that I'm always interested in feedback and legitimately won't be offended about anything you may write or say. I'm not going to know who you are anyways, and our rank list is already finalized. Just wanted to make sure everyone knew that!

you really are a gem around these parts. if only everyone had your mindset.
 
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I had a bad feeling that because of the PD from Brookdale last year who called out the student that ranked their program low, that it would affect students this year in terms of sharing their lists. Hopefully, if there are any students who interviewed at my shop who don't want to submit their list because they know I read these boards, please know that I'm always interested in feedback and legitimately won't be offended about anything you may write or say. I'm not going to know who you are anyways, and our rank list is already finalized. Just wanted to make sure everyone knew that!

I think a lot of us are waiting until it's all finalized to share our lists - at least I am.


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I think a lot of us are waiting until it's all finalized to share our lists - at least I am.


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I'm at least waiting until I stop changing and recertifying my list every. damn. day.
 
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I think a lot of us are waiting until it's all finalized to share our lists - at least I am.


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I'm at least waiting until I stop changing and recertifying my list every. damn. day.

WHy does it matter to you if it’s absolutely final or not? Posting it anonymously on SDN isn’t binding lol.
 
Why is everyone so impatient for these lists? Does it matter to most people when they're posted as long as it's before next apps? I don't see them changing anyone's mind on where they are ranking and I'm sure we'll see a surge after the 21st.
 
Why is everyone so impatient for these lists? Does it matter to most people when they're posted as long as it's before next apps? I don't see them changing anyone's mind on where they are ranking and I'm sure we'll see a surge after the 21st.
They've changed two of my ranks. So I would say its likely that it can help those in the current cycle as well.
 
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