*** 2021-2022 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

[Fencer]

Some admission decisions that have not been communicated to you might be there. It really depends on whether the AMCAS officer of the school has uploaded (or not) decisions. Sometimes, they give blanket rejections to anyone who they haven't been told as accepted or alternate (waitlisted); whereas in the eyes of the program, some of those rejected haven't been rejected yet by the program. It is an issue of communication. Most MD/PhD programs have some degree of access to the AMCAS CYMS platform. We had our monthly web-forum a few days ago; AMCAS was presenting and only about 2/3 had access. However, only 1/3 had seen the reports that I am talking about.

In any case, I would like to hear here publicly or via PM if you were surprised by decisions that had not been communicated to you. Every year, some of the premature AMCAS rejections become MD/PhD ACs, which tells me that the communication between the AMCAS Admission officer and the program is sub-optimal.

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[applicant20212022]

@Fencer : Thanks! And yes will keep you posted

 

[bigfanofscience]

Some admission decisions that have not been communicated to you might be there. It really depends on whether the AMCAS officer of the school has uploaded (or not) decisions. Sometimes, they give blanket rejections to anyone who they haven't been told as accepted or alternate (waitlisted); whereas in the eyes of the program, some of those rejected haven't been rejected yet by the program. It is an issue of communication. Most MD/PhD programs have some degree of access to the AMCAS CYMS platform. We had our monthly web-forum a few days ago; AMCAS was presenting and only about 2/3 had access. However, only 1/3 had seen the reports that I am talking about.

In any case, I would like to hear here publicly or via PM if you were surprised by decisions that had not been communicated to you. Every year, some of the premature AMCAS rejections become MD/PhD ACs, which tells me that the communication between the AMCAS Admission officer and the program is sub-optimal.

Oh my, just to clarify, there's a chance we might see rejections on the CYMS tool that are not actually rejections...? This happens to some people? That's kind of... horrible

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

Oh my, just to clarify, there's a chance we might see rejections on the CYMS tool that are not actually rejections...? This happens to some people? That's kind of... horrible

No, you do not see rejections on CYMS. You only see acceptances and waitlists. There will be no chance for us as applicants to see false rejections.

Edit: you can see waitlists

 

[bigfanofscience]

No, you do not see rejections or waitlists on CYMS. You only see acceptances. There will be no chance for us as applicants to see false rejections.

I don't think that's true. Go to "CYMS Admissions Decisions Dashboard Guide" at bottom of page: AMCAS® Choose Your Medical School Tool

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

I don't think that's true. Go to "CYMS Admissions Decisions Dashboard Guide" at bottom of page: AMCAS® Choose Your Medical School Tool

Updated to waitlists and acceptances. rejections though are not visible to us as applicants.

 

[bigfanofscience]

There is an "applicant is no longer under consideration" option

 

[sesteretina]

Updated to waitlists and acceptances. rejections though are not visible.

Rejections are visible, which you can see in the video. These are all of the admissions decisions that could be visible:

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

There is an "applicant is no longer under consideration" option

Rejections are visible, which you can see in the video. These are all of the admissions decisions that could be visible:

View attachment 350656

Right, those decisions can be made on our applications. But my understanding, and what is laid out in the AAMC guide and bolded and boxed, is that what is visible will be our acceptances and alternate lists.

Hence why only applicants who have at least one acceptance will be able to use the CYMS tool

 

[bigfanofscience]

Updated to waitlists and acceptances. rejections though are not visible to us as applicants.

My understanding of what Fencer is saying is that, occasionally, an applicant may be surprised by a listed rejected in the CYMS tool and is then called with an acceptance by the school. (Hence, 'false rejection')

If that happens to me, I'm sending AMCAS my therapy bill

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

by a listed rejected in the CYMS tool

Right and I am stating I do not believe you will be able to see a “rejected” status. They write it out as only waitlists and acceptances are visible.

 

[baz2020]

The link from @bigfanofscience states “ The following list defines the decisions that will be visible to applicants who can view the dashboard (refer to Figure 2).”

Implying those will be visible. That guide also says only those with acceptance will have access? Seems like there is some discrepancy in what AAMC says will be visible from these posts

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

The link from @bigfanofscience states “ The following list defines the decisions that will be visible to applicants who can view the dashboard (refer to Figure 2).”Implying those will be visible. That guide also says only those with acceptance/waitlist will have access?

And that guide also says only acceptances and waitlists will be visible LMAO OK I am going to rescind all of my opinions, wait to see tomorrow, And just let AAMC continue to have trash documentation.

Edit: Figured it out. “Application no longer under consideration” is not “rejected.” It is “rescinded.”

 

[Fencer]

In prior years, you only were able to see acceptances. They indicated that they were adding waitlists during the meetings in the summer 2021, but after some feedback from focus groups (I gave them my feedback often), I was surprised what they showed to AMCAS officers in the webinar of Feb. 9, which is the video that I linked first. It includes "no longer under consideration" (i.e.: rejections).

Once again, I don't know how is it going to work out tomorrow, but let us know and share. For PDs, it opens a day later as your CYMS decisions are reported overnight to us until Feb. 23. Please use CYMS decisions... They are not binding and you can change them daily. They only reflect your current thought as if the cycle was complete at that moment. They only provide AGGREGATE information to programs until May 2, when your identity then is unmasked for us.

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

It includes "no longer under consideration"

I think this implies “acceptance has been rescinded.” As only schools which we are accepted to will populate to CYMS. Will be interesting to see tomorrow

 

[applicant20212022]

On the flipside, have there ever been cases when CYMS said "Accepted" but the applicant actually was not?

 

[Fencer]

On the flipside, have there ever been cases when CYMS said "Accepted" but the applicant actually was not?

Not that I am aware. You always here that hundredths of people received invitations and/or acceptances by colleges but I have not seen it for SOM. This is part as to why there is a very limited number of people per school who have full access to the AMCAS portal. If there is a mistake, you can rescind an acceptance in the system.

 

[baz2020]

Can anyone else not see the tool in the application? Their twitter says it should be available but I don't have the link in the "Quick Links" tab. Also I have an acceptance so that shouldn't be a problem

 

[RunningMSN]

Can anyone else not see the tool in the application? Their twitter says it should be available but I don't have the link in the "Quick Links" tab. Also I have an acceptance so that shouldn't be a problem

I think they might be having some issues. I can see the link to the tool but get an error code when I go to the page and no schools show up.

Edit: I can still see acceptances when I click to make a selection.

 

[sesteretina]

CYMS works for me. And notably only my acceptances and alternate lists show up. No rejections visible.

 

[skeeter11]

I have a "Application No Longer Under Consideration" from Colorado dated 2/14/22 even though they rejected me on 12/30/21 and one of my waitlists isn't there. weird

 

[mdphd63627]

I think they might be having some issues. I can see the link to the tool but get an error code when I go to the page and no schools show up.

I also get an error and cannot see any schools


**I still get an error and cannot see the full list of schools, but when I click on make selection, I see my current acceptances

 

[chips0807]

I also get an error and cannot see any schools


**I still get an error and cannot see the full list of schools, but when I click on make selection, I see my current acceptances

+1

 

[Fencer]

I have a "Application No Longer Under Consideration" from Colorado dated 2/14/22 even though they rejected me on 12/30/21 and one of my waitlists isn't there. weird

This is exactly the idea... You should contact via email the school/program that waitlisted you and indicate that you do not see that status in CYMS. If anyone does not see an Acceptance, call and email right away the program administrator.

 

[BRTaurus]

Little confused on how the "plan to enroll" is interpreted. If we are leaning towards one school but still waiting to attend a few second looks to confirm, is it better logistically to "Plan to enroll" now and potentially change that later? Or better to just leave it without selecting a school until April? My thought process is that since it is likely that I'll pick one school over the others, indicating that will allow the other schools to plan to pull someone from the waitlist sooner rather than later...

 

[Fencer]

The only active choice that applicants have is to select "Plan To Enroll" to a single school. This is useful to ALL OF US even if the applicant has a single acceptance (or several ACs). The Plan To Enroll status is a non-binding choice that can be changed daily, if wanted and it is reported only in aggregate form (the school will NOT know it is you). It only means if the cycle ended today, the selected program is your leading choice. It will help all of us to have a better idea of enrollment needs. If you want to see what the applicant webtool looks like, watch this AAMC video (from Feb. 9) starting at 11:27 and ending at 27:06.

 

[RunningMSN]

Update for anyone who was getting the CYMS errors, it's working now.

Nothing like getting hit with a surprise WL to a school I didn't interview at.

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

I have a "Application No Longer Under Consideration" from Colorado dated 2/14/22 even though they rejected me on 12/30/21 and one of my waitlists isn't there. weird

I have this as well but I believe we both also had the pre-II waitlist. So we must’ve been coded as waitlist, then swapped to no longer under consideration.

I am also missing one of my WLs and I am missing an acceptance I withdrew from.

 

[mdphd63627]

I applied to 37 schools and only see 12 on the list lol

Its mostly fixed now

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

I applied to 37 schools and only see 12 on the list lol

Its mostly fixed now

You will not see rejections. You will see places you have been accepted and waitlisted at any point. Some programs it seems didn’t catch the memo (ie. Colorado) and they accidentally reported “no longer under consideration” and “alternate list” for some of their pre-interview decisions

 

[Fencer]

CYMS provides us with information...

My program has 12 MD/PhD ACs - 9 out of the 12 are from out of state with 3 indicating they are coming to us at the moment. These 9 accepted applicants currently have at least 21 "OTHER ACCEPTANCES" plus ours... (i.e.: 30/9 = 3.3 ACs per out-of-state applicant; at least because 2 applicants hold 5 or more ACs plus ours, so could be anywhere from 30-38). As a group, these 9 out of state applicants also have 12 alternate slots. Our in-state (3 AC) are holding 7 ACs, but that is partly because the TMDSAS TX match condenses MD choices to a single one.

Despite that, we are fairly competitive and I optimistically believe 5 / 12 are coming to us. Nevertheless, by the end, I believe that I will go thru my Priority Waitlist (aka: High waitlist) before end of season to fill my class...

I have a list of competing schools for ACs including all NYC MSTPs plus other East & West coast MSTP royalty, and don't forget those top MSTPs in the middle of the country that are still top 20 programs, and my Texas MSTP neighbors.... The music is loud and people are running around the chairs (also known as training slots) until it ends with a bang on the May 2nd deadline when applicants will scramble for the last few available seats.

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

Despite that, we are fairly competitive and I optimistically believe 5 / 12 are coming to us.

Out of curiosity, as a program director what do you look for/what do you evaluate in your admitted and/or waitlisted students to gauge their interest in actually attending your program (at least with any confidence)? I know there are factors such as geographic connections (particularly strong for CA and TX students), cases where there really is just a phenomenal/perfect research match, and the rare case of students with families looking for affordable areas/good employment options etc. But these seem like a case-by-case set of factors. What else, either generally or specific factors, do you see in prospective students where you know "These 5 of 12 will come" or "these n of our final XX are most likely to come"?

 

[Fencer]

That is a tough question to answer... As you know, I talk openly with applicants. Just overnight, one of my 9 out-of-state applicants added another AC, and another Alternate. Keep also in mind that these are their choices as of yesterday. Based upon my conversations with them and the aggregate posting, that was the result. I also know the quality of the other MD/PhD acceptances, which tells me that I do have several open slots. However, every school has rules for admission to avoid over-accepting the number of applicants. The system appears to be working as it was designed...

 

[baz2020]

I also know the quality of the other MD/PhD acceptances

Can you elaborate on this? Is this explicitly expressed from applicants during communication or implicitly by judging the quality of the applicant/acceptee?

 

[Fencer]

Let's see... I have been in this rodeo for more than a decade. I have accepted trainees who had an AC from "X" school (or "Y" MSTP) and ours "Z". Given 53 MSTPs and 25 AC applicants per year for MSTP "Z", you eventually develop tables of Z vs X - 80% win for Z, while Z vs Y - only 10% win for Z. Another report that I am able to access contains the list of programs that I am competing against in aggregate, and I discuss things openly with applicants who often feel comfortable enough to share their choices. When I say competitive, it is that I am dealing with applicants with ACs from several "Y" programs. It is clear enough?

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

Let's see... I have been in this rodeo for more than a decade. I have accepted trainees who had an AC from "X" school (or "Y" MSTP) and ours "Z". Given 53 MSTPs and 25 AC applicants per year for MSTP "Z", you eventually develop tables of Z vs X - 80% win for Z, while Z vs Y - only 10% win for Z. Another report that I am able to access contains the list of programs that I am competing against in aggregate, and I discuss things openly with applicants who often feel comfortable enough to share their choices. When I say competitive, it is that I am dealing with applicants with ACs from several "Y" programs. It is clear enough?

I think I have my statistics textbook around here somewhere……(I joke. This is helpful/the transparency is appreciated)

 

[Fencer]

Update from end of February

Total MD/PhD Applicants - 1766 applicants
At least 1 MD/PhD acceptance - 603 applicants

We are at 71% of our national target for at least 1 MD/PhD AC, which means that 29% of eventually accepted applicants are still experiencing application cycle anxiety ... If you have > 3 MD/PhD interviews, you have a decent chance for an acceptance. Hang in there!

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

I have a friend in an interesting situation with a school in Texas:

They were accepted with an email from the MD/PhD program, but have not heard anything from the actual medical school. As of today, the acceptance shows up on AMCAS finally but there is nothing in their application portal or TMDSAS. Is being present in AMCAS and having email correspondence sufficient for them to feel comfortable moving forward in the cycle?

Additionally, this program has a tentative summer rotation start date in early May due to an early MD class start. When my friend asked them about any details on a second look (as none had been provided), the program just asked if they wanted to start rotations in April instead. I am unsure if voluntarily starting rotations before April 30th is a traffic rules violation, but it just seems sketchy. Would love for some feedback or advice on this.

 

[Fencer]

Email and AMCAS are legal contracts of the school with the applicant. I would not be expecting that TMDSAS would show anything for a MD/PhD AMCAS accepted applicant. Early classes are weird. The AAMC has a definition of Early Matriculation programs. A pre-matriculation curriculum is something that allows some students to have a smoother transition, and it is not a traffic rule violation IF the applicant agrees with doing it. Unfortunately, the applicant is being placed in a situation that limits their ability to accept waitlists and/or other offers. You love TX schools... they have interesting tricks! I rather go to a MSTP with a track record... Fortunately, there are 4 terrific choices in TX.

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

Email and AMCAS are legal contracts of the school with the applicant. I would not be expecting that TMDSAS would show anything for a MD/PhD AMCAS accepted applicant.

OK, good. I will let them know that they do in fact have an acceptance despite the poorer communication.

Early classes are weird. The AAMC has a definition of Early Matriculation programs. A pre-matriculation curriculum is something that allows some students to have a smoother transition, and it is not a traffic rule violation IF the applicant agrees with doing it. Unfortunately, the applicant is being placed in a situation that limits their ability to accept waitlists and/or other offers.

Thankfully, this is the student's number one program/they don't have waitlists tp worry about. They aren't agreeing to the early classes/they don't seem to be forcing it. Was just strange/atypical to not be offered a second look and for the program to be changing around the start date.

You love TX schools... they have interesting tricks! I rather go to a MSTP with a track record... Fortunately, there are 4 terrific choices in TX.

I agree with you. On that note, I have personally either withdrawn all acceptances or been waitlisted at my TX programs. TX MD/PhD does seem to have some quirks.

 

[RunningMSN]

Hi cycle friends! Over the past few months, I’ve been collaborating with a few fellow applicants on an application tracking and visualization system we’ve called CycleTrack. The idea is that applicants track their cycle in real time (like most of us already do using a spreadsheet), use the platform to build pretty graphs of their cycle (e.g. Sankey/line/bar graphs) and the data is also used to crowdsource anonymized information about the application cycle. Kind of like a fun amalgamation between our SDN threads, MSAR, TheDataKing’s spreadsheet, etc. Thus we can track the cycle’s progress overall and for individual schools in real-time.

I wanted to invite you to come beta test the system! It does require a working email to sign-up (for spam prevention), but as this is still a beta, you are welcome to use a 10-minute mail/throwaway. Our code is also entirely open-source and on GitHub. Any feedback/suggestions/ideas would be super helpful!

Link: Home

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

Hi cycle friends! Over the past few months, I’ve been collaborating with a few fellow applicants on an application tracking and visualization system we’ve called CycleTrack. The idea is that applicants track their cycle in real time (like most of us already do using a spreadsheet), use the platform to build pretty graphs of their cycle (e.g. Sankey/line/bar graphs) and the data is also used to crowdsource anonymized information about the application cycle. Kind of like a fun amalgamation between our SDN threads, MSAR, TheDataKing’s spreadsheet, etc. Thus we can track the cycle’s progress overall and for individual schools in real-time.

I wanted to invite you to come beta test the system! It does require an email to sign-up (for spam prevention), but as this is still a beta, you are welcome to use a 10-minute mail/throwaway. Our code is also entirely open-source and on GitHub. Any feedback/suggestions/ideas would be super helpful!

Link: Home

Looking great! Hopefully CycleTrack and docs2be can continue to grow, gather data, show resources,and help future cycles!

 

[larynxlady]

Are MSTP students eligible to apply for loans for living expenses? (this would be in addition to the stipend)

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

Are MSTP students eligible to apply for loans for living expenses? (this would be in addition to the stipend)

Ask your school! Some will allow increases for rent but not much (since the stipend counts towards COA) but most won’t (typically it is the Ny, Boston, CA schools that do). You CAN increase for childcare and dependent health insurance if you use the schools insurance at most places. In all cases, talk to your school

Edit: Here was a very detailed response I got from one school:

 

[mdphd63627]

Are MSTP students eligible to apply for loans for living expenses? (this would be in addition to the stipend)

I think so. I know someone at Emory MD/PhD who took out additional loans.

 

[yibs]

I think so. I know someone at Emory MD/PhD who took out additional loans.

Was it also due to having a family or other reasons?

 

[mdphd63627]

Was it also due to having a family or other reasons?

Needed more for rent I believe

 

[mdphd63627]

Some schools I was accepted to offer a 2k move-in bonus, which is just a flat sum of money paid to help with move-in costs. Is there a way to ask the schools who don't offer it right now to offer it? Like it would be so helpful to me, but it wouldn't at all make me choose one school over another (I don't want to make it sound like I am only concerned about money to a school)

 

[MD-PhD-NonTrad]

Some schools I was accepted to offer a 2k move-in bonus, which is just a flat sum of money paid to help with move-in costs. Is there a way to ask the schools who don't offer it right now to offer it? Like it would be so helpful to me, but it wouldn't at all make me choose one school over another (I don't want to make it sound like I am only concerned about money to a school)

Do make it sound like you are concerned about money. Just be blunt but professional and ask “Are there funds available to aid in moving costs?” It isn’t a rude question, your livelihood and quality of life is important. The worst they can say is no and then nothing changes.

 

[baz2020]

you guys are getting bonuses?