Addressing PE

[BatmanDO9]

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I’ve been disgusted by the complete and total lack of leadership and initiative that the NBOME has shown during the COVID 19 pandemic... not just with the COMLEX 2-PE but also in regards to prometric cancelling peoples exams. When people asked/complained about prometric, Gimpel responded by essentially saying (I’m paraphrasing):
-we told prometric we are super angry about them doing this
-but despite that there is just nothing we can do about it, oh well....
..... meanwhile the NBME not only cancels step 2 CS, but they also set up a bunch of regional temporary testing sites to deal with the prometric cancellations. I’m not happy with the NBME because of their decision NOT to blind CS scores (which is such an unfair and just crappy thing to do to their students) but ATLEAST they did something about the CS and the prometric situation. The NBOME has had the attitude of “oh well, not our problem and nothing we can do” the entire pandemic. COVID 19 has exposed how incompetent and unfit to lead the current leadership at NBOME is

 

[popopopop]

I’ve been disgusted by the complete and total lack of leadership and initiative that the NBOME has shown during the COVID 19 pandemic... not just with the COMLEX 2-PE but also in regards to prometric cancelling peoples exams. When people asked/complained about prometric, Gimpel responded by essentially saying (I’m paraphrasing):
-we told prometric we are super angry about them doing this
-but despite that there is just nothing we can do about it, oh well....
..... meanwhile the NBME not only cancels step 2 CS, but they also set up a bunch of regional temporary testing sites to deal with the prometric cancellations. I’m not happy with the NBME because of their decision NOT to blind CS scores (which is such an unfair and just crappy thing to do to their students) but ATLEAST they did something about the CS and the prometric situation. The NBOME has had the attitude of “oh well, not our problem and nothing we can do” the entire pandemic. COVID 19 has exposed how incompetent and unfit to lead the current leadership at NBOME is

This is all I thought about when I read your post and remembering that online webinar with Gimpel.

 

[sunshinefl]

I’ll bet they haven’t even considered not letting the c/o 2022 take it this year do that c/o 2021 can get it knocked out.

I tweeted this directly to them months ago. To block anyone besides class of 2021 from registering.

 

[qwertythrowaway]

i think they're about to announce another two months of cancellations.
checked the website and my november test date is no longer there but i now have a voucher to reschedule. december looked noticeably lighter on dates, sure enough they dropped 15 testing appointments in chicago and 11 in conshohocken from my post over the weekend.

 

[Prehealth1011]

I just got my refund after filling out a form and e-mailing to them. School doesn't require PE to graduate. Officially done with this nonsense for now.

 

[deleted898021]

I think the PE is likely done for the next 12-18 months like the CS. Another 2 months of delays means that the class of 2021 can’t possibly take it before they graduate and it will likely be difficult for the class of 2022 to take it as well

 

[Chibucks15]

I just got my refund after filling out a form and e-mailing to them. School doesn't require PE to graduate. Officially done with this nonsense for now.

Was that on NBOME? My reschedule is January but who knows at this point

 

[Neopolymath]

I'm about to request a refund just to ruin their cashflow and stop giving those parasites an interest free loan they don't deserve.

 

[qwertythrowaway]

does anyone know if we can just take step 3 and give the middle finger to the nbome? Or does it depend on the state one matches in?

no. atm we can't register for level 3 unless we have passed level 2 PE.

 

[deleted898021]

does anyone know if we can just take step 3 and give the middle finger to the nbome? Or does it depend on the state one matches in?

It is state dependent I think

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

does anyone know if we can just take step 3 and give the middle finger to the nbome? Or does it depend on the state one matches in?

In 43 states this is 100% an option. Of the remaining 7 the wording is kind of ambiguous in most of them except for Florida, which clearly states USMLE can not be substituted.

I encourage every person that is eligible (ie has taken Step 1/2) to do this option.

 

[deleted1061998]

In 43 states this is 100% an option. Of the remaining 7 the wording is kind of ambiguous in most of them except for Florida, which clearly states USMLE can not be substituted.

I encourage every person that is eligible (ie has taken Step 1/2) to do this option.

do you know the 7 states?

 

[deleted898021]

In 43 states this is 100% an option. Of the remaining 7 the wording is kind of ambiguous in most of them except for Florida, which clearly states USMLE can not be substituted.

I encourage every person that is eligible (ie has taken Step 1/2) to do this option.

Florida probably has reciprocity with some states so you can prbly bypass that too if you really want to practice in Florida

 

[DrStephenStrange]

No its not state dependent. this is not an option.

you can't even register for Level 3 until you have passed both Level 2 CE and PE. the PE is a de facto requirement for licensure. doesn't matter that most states don't specifically require the PE, they ALL require passing Level 3, and the NBOME controls who is eligible for Level 3.

without passing the PE, you are not eligible to take Level 3. does this make sense?

edit: saw you said "step 3" and not level 3. yes this is an option

They were talking about the USMLE step 3 not COMLEX level 3.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

do you know the 7 states?

CA, MI, PA, OK, TN, FL, and another I always forget.

 

[Prehealth1011]

does anyone know if we can just take step 3 and give the middle finger to the nbome? Or does it depend on the state one matches in?

Most states allow this. This is exactly my plan. I’m not taking PE or Level 3. Just step 2 Ck and step 3.

 

[Mad Jack]

does anyone know if we can just take step 3 and give the middle finger to the nbome? Or does it depend on the state one matches in?

You can do it in CT and a few other states but you have to also complete Steps 1 and 2 for licensure

 

[deleted1062590]

i think they're about to announce another two months of cancellations.
checked the website and my november test date is no longer there but i now have a voucher to reschedule. december looked noticeably lighter on dates, sure enough they dropped 15 testing appointments in chicago and 11 in conshohocken from my post over the weekend.

My November test in Chicago is still there.

 

[cbc86]

this is new.... wonder if this is their plan.

Eligibility - NBOME

The COMLEX-USA Examination Sequence Candidates for COMLEX-USA must meet the following requirements as well as the requirements of their college of osteopathic medicine. Examinations must […]

www.nbome.org

How can we take Level 3 without PE? And what does that third bullet point imply? Immunity from litigation if a person fails and gets kicked out of residency? Or if they get COVID and die?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

this is new.... wonder if this is their plan.

Eligibility - NBOME

The COMLEX-USA Examination Sequence Candidates for COMLEX-USA must meet the following requirements as well as the requirements of their college of osteopathic medicine. Examinations must […]

www.nbome.org

How do we know this is new?

If true, my read is that they are quietly preparing for a longer suspension. They also want to be free of legal liability lol, for when an intern that has competently seeing real patients for months, inevitably fails PE.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

if we finish our training elsewhere can we later practice in any of those states?

Yes, through the concept of reciprocity.

At least in most of those states. I haven’t delved too much into it to see what states explicitly require.

 

[Neopolymath]

Maybe I'm tired but if this is new (any source on this?) doesn't this read like they are paving the way to take level 3 without PE but saying that if a licensing body (read: random state) decides they have to have PE for a complete series of exams and won't just honor having completed level 3 then they will allow people to come back and take it? I'm trying to have the perspective of bureaucracy. You have to have wordy protocols and documentation written in place even for the must common sense things. It's why your student handbook at medical school is so verbose and stupidly written.

Cautiously optimistic (we'll see how fast this gets taken away from me)

edit: Remember, most states do not require PE or CS explicitly. The only reason these exams are important is because the NBME/NBOME said you have to take them to sit for 3rd licensing exam.

 

[qwertythrowaway]

How do we know this is new?

If true, my read is that they are quietly preparing for a longer suspension. They also want to be free of legal liability lol, for when an intern that has competently seeing real patients for months, inevitably fails PE.

it's not new. i saw the bulletin was updated 7/1/2020 and didn't cross-reference with the 2019-2020 bulletin. not sure what the changes are, but this is not one of them. i'm going to put myself in timeout now. sorry. carry on

 

[Alkaidius]

Seems like they're desperate to try and get us to take it before we step foot into residency so there isn't any sort of tangible evidence for its uselessness. I somehow doubt the 2022 class is in those calculations, so they'll have to effectively ban them from taking it until 2021 is finished if they want any hope of this succeeding. And this is all assuming a timely resumption in November. Whether this plan of theirs falls flat will pretty much depend on how winter goes, but considering everyone's optimistic predictions keep getting Rekt by this virus, I wouldn't bet on them.

 

[Neopolymath]

Seems like they're desperate to try and get us to take it before we step foot into residency so there isn't any sort of tangible evidence for its uselessness. I somehow doubt the 2022 class is in those calculations, so they'll have to effectively ban them from taking it until 2021 is finished if they want any hope of this succeeding. And this is all assuming a timely resumption in November. Whether this plan of theirs falls flat will pretty much depend on how winter goes, but considering everyone's optimistic predictions keep getting Rekt by this virus, I wouldn't bet on them.

One phrase: influenza+covid superinfection

 

[sunshinefl]

i think they're about to announce another two months of cancellations.
checked the website and my november test date is no longer there but i now have a voucher to reschedule. december looked noticeably lighter on dates, sure enough they dropped 15 testing appointments in chicago and 11 in conshohocken from my post over the weekend.

My November date is still there.

In 43 states this is 100% an option. Of the remaining 7 the wording is kind of ambiguous in most of them except for Florida, which clearly states USMLE can not be substituted.

I encourage every person that is eligible (ie has taken Step 1/2) to do this option.

unfortunately I’m Florida 4 Lyfe

My November test in Chicago is still there.

mine too

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

i think they're about to announce another two months of cancellations.
checked the website and my november test date is no longer there but i now have a voucher to reschedule. december looked noticeably lighter on dates, sure enough they dropped 15 testing appointments in chicago and 11 in conshohocken from my post over the weekend.

Interesting find... I wish we had a bug in his office. I can only imagine the panic that is occurring.

 

[cbc86]

Interesting find... I wish we had a bug in his office. I can only imagine the panic that is occurring.

they are not panicking. They have 99 percent of the students money, and will almost certainly find a way to keep it.

 

[BatmanDO9]

It would be awesome if all current class of 2021 students cancelled our exams all at once and if they didn’t give us a refund everyone called their credit card company or bank to cancel the transaction.... we could literally bankrupt those crooks in a matter of hours.

 

[BatmanDO9]

After how badly they have treated us over the last few months there are very few things that would bring me as much joy as watching the NBOME go bankrupt because Gimpel refused to cancel his “most important board exam for osteopathic medical students”...... after being a pencil pusher for so long I wonder what he would do? I don’t think the guy has actually seen a patient or practiced medicine in years. I bet McDonalds is hiring

 

[Prehealth1011]

they are not panicking. They have 99 percent of the students money, and will almost certainly find a way to keep it.

Agreed. If getting a refund is an option for you, i would go ahead and hand in the form right now before they think of something creative to keep our money. Many of my classmates already got their refunds and moving on.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

RIP. I haven't looked at this thread in awhile and can't believe this is still a thing when MD students in 2021 and likely 2022 won't be taking CS. Starting to get concerned for myself/my classmates (2022), there is just no way we are all going to be able to test. Also RIP wanting to practice in Florida lol

 

[BellaWriterChic]

RIP. I haven't looked at this thread in awhile and can't believe this is still a thing when MD students in 2021 and likely 2022 won't be taking CS. Starting to get concerned for myself/my classmates (2022), there is just no way we are all going to be able to test. Also RIP wanting to practice in Florida lol

We are probably gonna get screwed in this too. It keeps getting more and more likely just as the test keeps getting pushed back and back. Not looking forward to it

 

[drplzz]

i think they're about to announce another two months of cancellations.
checked the website and my november test date is no longer there but i now have a voucher to reschedule. december looked noticeably lighter on dates, sure enough they dropped 15 testing appointments in chicago and 11 in conshohocken from my post over the weekend.

my late dec date is still there

 

[ritts]

my school is still saying it's "mandatory" to take the PE before we graduate (obviously that's not feasible). According to them, the AOA mandates that every student has to pass the PE. If we don't take it then it's the schools fault and they would lose accreditation.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

my school is still saying it's "mandatory" to take the PE before we graduate (obviously that's not feasible). According to them, the AOA mandates that every student has to pass the PE. If we don't take it then it's the schools fault and they would lose accreditation.

Lol except COCA literally said the opposite. This is the real DO Difference. DO school leadership at it's finest.

 

[Scrubs101]

my school is still saying it's "mandatory" to take the PE before we graduate (obviously that's not feasible). According to them, the AOA mandates that every student has to pass the PE. If we don't take it then it's the schools fault and they would lose accreditation.

Doesnt the AOA have like nothing to do with DO school accreditation? I was under the impression they existed for residency accreditation.

 

[cbc86]

Doesnt the AOA have like nothing to do with DO school accreditation? I was under the impression they existed for residency accreditation.

The AOA has nothing to do with this decision. COCA makes these decisions.

 

[bigbrowndude]

I just got my refund after filling out a form and e-mailing to them. School doesn't require PE to graduate. Officially done with this nonsense for now.

Where do you find the refund form?

 

[Prehealth1011]

Where do you find the refund form?

https://www.nbome.org/Content/Exams/COMLEX-USA/COMLEX-USA_Fee_Waiver_Form.pdf

 

[Dr. Rafiki]

The AOA has nothing to do with this decision. COCA makes these decisions.

Doesnt the AOA have like nothing to do with DO school accreditation? I was under the impression they existed for residency accreditation.

COCA is a commission. One that was created by and operates under the AOA. They are one in the same. Like a Senate subcommittee.

Commission on Osteopathic College Accreditation

COCA is the accreditor of colleges of osteopathic medicine, signifying if a college has met or exceeded the Commission’s standards for educational quality.

osteopathic.org

 

[TXKnight]

How do we know this is new?

If true, my read is that they are quietly preparing for a longer suspension. They also want to be free of legal liability lol, for when an intern that has competently seeing real patients for months, inevitably fails PE.

If that bullet is new verbiage, this is exactly what I believe it means. They are already hedging for that very real scenario bound to happen, the resident who fails PE well into their program...sad

 

[TXKnight]

my school is still saying it's "mandatory" to take the PE before we graduate (obviously that's not feasible). According to them, the AOA mandates that every student has to pass the PE. If we don't take it then it's the schools fault and they would lose accreditation.

your school is telling you BS. COCA decides who get acredited and who doesn't, and as of now, the school has the discretion to allow their students to graduate w/o a PE, no questions asked

 

[hawthorn9797]

Chicago Public Schools will go fully remote to start the fall

The district had planned to bring most students back two days a week, but is now planning to provide distance learning only, at least initially.

chicago.suntimes.com

so chicAgo isn’t allowing any students to return to school this semester in person.... are we not students? Being forced to go to chicago?

 

[deleted1061998]

Chicago Public Schools will go fully remote to start the fall

The district had planned to bring most students back two days a week, but is now planning to provide distance learning only, at least initially.

chicago.suntimes.com

so chicAgo isn’t allowing any students to return to school this semester in person.... are we not students? Being forced to go to chicago?

they are just buying time but they will end up delaying or canceling altogether. Honestly pathetic of them to keep avoiding the inevitable

 

[Ho0v-man]

they are just buying time but they will end up delaying or canceling altogether. Honestly pathetic of them to keep avoiding the inevitable

They must be trying to get past some shareholders meeting before they officially cancel it.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

They must be trying to get past some shareholders meeting before they officially cancel it.

Or just desperately praying COVID magically disappears or people forget it exists lol

 

[Neopolymath]

Or just desperately praying COVID magically disappears or people forget it exists lol

If you believe in OMM hard enough it's real so why wouldn't this work?

 

[Ho0v-man]

Or just desperately praying COVID magically disappears or people forget it exists lol

If you believe in OMM hard enough it's real so why wouldn't this work?

By osteopathic principles, it should go away. We’ve already taken the pandemic the way it likes to go, to the point of ease, or rather, it’s indirect barrier. So logically it should improve.

I guess with so many people going into ARDS, we weren’t able to apply respiratory force.

 

[Neurality]

Or just desperately praying COVID magically disappears or people forget it exists lol

It probably will go away or at least quiet down after the November election...