Addressing PE

[risperdoll]

I attended a virtual residency conference a few weeks ago where close to 100 residencies were present. I asked several PDs (~12) about their plans regarding PE and students who don't have a score or who have failed and can't retake yet. Unfortunately, ALL but ONE said that either they expected/strongly favored applicants with PE score by ERAS opening OR that they needed it by match. I will say that there was a lot of confusion when I followed my question with the fact that PE suspended until Nov and that we can graduate without a PE, MOST Pd's didn't know or where unaware of the details. This is just under TWO MONTHS before ERAS opens! Someone in leadership need to update PDs across the nation ASAP about what is happening in the boards front, otherwise we will get totally screwed come ERAS

Not totally sure, but I kind of feel like if they’re still unaware by that point and screen out anyone without a PE, they’re going to notice that it cuts out a huge chunk of applicants that were otherwise great candidates.

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[Mochi2020]

I attended a virtual residency conference a few weeks ago where close to 100 residencies were present. I asked several PDs (~12) about their plans regarding PE and students who don't have a score or who have failed and can't retake yet. Unfortunately, ALL but ONE said that either they expected/strongly favored applicants with PE score by ERAS opening OR that they needed it by match. I will say that there was a lot of confusion when I followed my question with the fact that PE suspended until Nov and that we can graduate without a PE, MOST Pd's didn't know or where unaware of the details. This is just under TWO MONTHS before ERAS opens! Someone in leadership need to update PDs across the nation ASAP about what is happening in the boards front, otherwise we will get totally screwed come ERAS

This is the reason why it is mind blowing to me that NBME/NBOME/ERAS/ any of medicine leadership organizations think that just because they will include in on ERAS applications about what is going on with CS/PE, PDs will actually aware of the cancellation/changes and will take that into consideration and give applicants fair changes to match...I don't know if this is what we should call ignorance to its finest or just simply don't give a ****...I waste no second when I receive an email from one of these entities promoting fairness or whatever...to delete their emails.

 

[Neopolymath]

I attended a virtual residency conference a few weeks ago where close to 100 residencies were present. I asked several PDs (~12) about their plans regarding PE and students who don't have a score or who have failed and can't retake yet. Unfortunately, ALL but ONE said that either they expected/strongly favored applicants with PE score by ERAS opening OR that they needed it by match. I will say that there was a lot of confusion when I followed my question with the fact that PE suspended until Nov and that we can graduate without a PE, MOST Pd's didn't know or where unaware of the details. This is just under TWO MONTHS before ERAS opens! Someone in leadership need to update PDs across the nation ASAP about what is happening in the boards front, otherwise we will get totally screwed come ERAS

This post is making me sick to my stomach... All because some POS won't do the right thing. In a process with little control to start, the class of 21 has had theirs reduced by 90%.

I can't control that I'm in a hot spot and all the hospitals stopped accepting students for a LONG time. I can't control that my PE was canceled 3-4 times.

The real issue is the lack of accountability and that PDs have zero reason to spend the 5 minutes to get up to date on all this. This is why it's so important to have your own hospitals and organizations that actually advocate for you. All the DO students out there that say people are just whiny or whatever BS are the problem. We have some that like to come to this forum and act like they are above the effects of these organizations... like their fake tough guy "I never complain" personas on here will protect them like they aren't millennials lol. They are complacent because they think it's a temporary annoyance. Well, guess what? That has a real possibility of being a permanent annoyance when you don't match or match like ****. We don't have much power but you can bet your ass I will do everything I can to disrupt the DO world so it might get somewhat fixed for the next gen or destroyed.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Orrrrr they could just remove the CS/PE section from ERAS. You know, to make things fair for everyone.

 

[IsWhat]

I’m sorry you all are going through this. Anyone without a PE before applications should consider extending their graduation date and pursue research or some other scholarly activity. The risk of entering the match without a PE (or a failed PE without a documented successful second attempt) and not matching outweighs an extra year of something productive, IMO.

 

[qwertythrowaway]

I’m sorry you all are going through this. Anyone without a PE before applications should consider extending their graduation date and pursue research or some other scholarly activity. The risk of entering the match without a PE (or a failed PE without a documented successful second attempt) and not matching outweighs an extra year of something productive, IMO.

this is ridiculous advice. 75% of DO's should just extend their graduation date? that's how many DO students in the class of 2021 won't have a PE before applications go out.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I’m sorry you all are going through this. Anyone without a PE before applications should consider extending their graduation date and pursue research or some other scholarly activity. The risk of entering the match without a PE (or a failed PE without a documented successful second attempt) and not matching outweighs an extra year of something productive, IMO.

Lmao this is such bad advice dude.

 

[Scrubs101]

I’m sorry you all are going through this. Anyone without a PE before applications should consider extending their graduation date and pursue research or some other scholarly activity. The risk of entering the match without a PE (or a failed PE without a documented successful second attempt) and not matching outweighs an extra year of something productive, IMO.

I’m gonna go the route of just politely asking during interviews what the programs policies on the PE/CS are and if they’re unaware of the current issues with delays respectfully informing them that cancelations have made having a score before rank impossible. If enough people do this while on the trails they’ll become informed.

This isn’t a handful of people without PE/CS this is pretty much the majority of the class of 2021

 

[IsWhat]

Lmao this is such bad advice dude.

It’s possible the majority of DO students are going to apply for residency this year without a PE while most ACGME PDs don’t care, or are oblivious, about the circumstances. I wouldn’t risk it, personally. For those who attend programs with decent research options - it is something to look into.

 

[frenchyn]

Orrrrr they could just remove the CS/PE section from ERAS. You know, to make things fair for everyone.

You would think those who are leaders have at least some common sense and intelligence to do this right? But the reality is no....they don’t for whatever reason.

 

[bigindian4891]

It’s possible the majority of DO students are going to apply for residency this year without a PE while most ACGME PDs don’t care, or are oblivious, about the circumstances. I wouldn’t risk it, personally. For those who attend programs with decent research options - it is something to look into.

Please stop.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

It’s possible the majority of DO students are going to apply for residency this year without a PE while most ACGME PDs don’t care, or are oblivious, about the circumstances. I wouldn’t risk it, personally. For those who attend programs with decent research options - it is something to look into.

so you’re response is to delay a year, and now be in competition with the class of 2022 DOs (which, btw, is bigger than 2021)?.....

No thanks.

 

[Dr. Death]

so you’re response is to delay a year, and now be in competition with the class of 2022 DOs (which, btw, is bigger than 2021)?.....

No thanks.

And give up a year of attending salary.

 

[qwertythrowaway]

it's been almost 6 weeks since the nbome announced the 11/1 restart date for the PE. and 8 weeks since the COSGP survey results were presented to the nbome. they sure like to keep us in limbo. are there any COSGP or SGA reps on here who have heard any news?

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

I’m sorry you all are going through this. Anyone without a PE before applications should consider extending their graduation date and pursue research or some other scholarly activity. The risk of entering the match without a PE (or a failed PE without a documented successful second attempt) and not matching outweighs an extra year of something productive, IMO.

 

[TheGift]

I attended a virtual residency conference a few weeks ago where close to 100 residencies were present. I asked several PDs (~12) about their plans regarding PE and students who don't have a score or who have failed and can't retake yet. Unfortunately, ALL but ONE said that either they expected/strongly favored applicants with PE score by ERAS opening OR that they needed it by match. I will say that there was a lot of confusion when I followed my question with the fact that PE suspended until Nov and that we can graduate without a PE, MOST Pd's didn't know or where unaware of the details. This is just under TWO MONTHS before ERAS opens! Someone in leadership need to update PDs across the nation ASAP about what is happening in the boards front, otherwise we will get totally screwed come ERAS

It doesnt really make sense that PDs would require PE for DO students but not CS for MD students. They do know its the equivalent right? Can PDs seriously lack the basic knowledge to require the exam for DOs but not MDs? If they choose to filter based on PE/CS that will severely cut down their interview pool to dismal numbers since 70-80% of the entire app pool didnt take either. Logically I would think or at least hope that the CS/PE will be a non factor. What about the the MD students who are stuck with a fail for 2 app cycles? Will they seriously destroy thousands of career potentials due to a bull$hit exam that they didnt even have to take? What a Joke....This has been more stressful then level 2/step 2 combined.

 

[Neopolymath]

It doesnt really make sense that PDs would require PE for DO students but not CS for MD students. They do know its the equivalent right? Can PDs seriously lack the basic knowledge to require the exam for DOs but not MDs? If they choose to filter based on PE/CS that will severely cut down their interview pool to dismal numbers since 70-80% of the entire app pool didnt take either. Logically I would think or at least hope that the CS/PE will be a non factor. What about the the MD students who are stuck with a fail for 2 app cycles? Will they seriously destroy thousands of career potentials due to a bull$hit exam that they didnt even have to take? What a Joke....This has been more stressful then level 2/step 2 combined.

I agree with your sentiment but your perspective is wrong regarding comparing CS to PE. There are two reasons PDs care about these two exams. First, in a normal year it gives them a way to weed out people with failures (or no repeat pass by interview and ranking) to make the applicant pool smaller. Secondly, they care because previously it was required to get licensed and sit for step 3/level 3. If a student didn't have this done then it is no guarantee that the student will have it done after contractually matching with the student but before graduation. That leads to the possibility of having an intern with licensing issues and needing time off work to take the exam (read:headache).

I'm sure most PDs realize the exams are complete bull**** but now MD students represent no worry to PDs with regards to creating a headache from needing to get it done during intern year/delaying licensure. DO students still represent a chance for this to occur. Like it or not, that's why we can potentially be treated differently than MD students more than we already are this year. You can thank Gimpel and the NBOME for sabotaging you from within our own organizations/leadership. Feels ****ing fantastic doesn't it?!

It's complete bull**** and on this principle alone the PE should be canceled so that DO students are not disadvantaged over such a stupid, stupid thing. (or the pandemic you NBOME *****s reading this)

Edit: You are also assuming that an ERAS filter is combined for CS/PE when you say they may lose out of "70-80% of applicants that didn't take it." I do not know if this is true personally. They could have separate filters for PE and CS and only use the PE filter. Maybe they even have a CS or PE failure filter? I have no clue.

 

[Neopolymath]

Has anyone heard anything from the NBOME in response to the fact that many PDs likely do not even know what is going on with the PE exam. The least these people can do is send a 1 paragraph email explaining most people won't have it by interviews and most people still won't have it by rank list deadline and can graduate without it. I'm worried that they, predictably, think that MD programs pay attention to DO current events at all out of some weird belief that we aren't just a small outlier part of medicine in America. I can assure them that most absolutely do not.

They owe us that much at least.

 

[TheGift]

I agree with your sentiment but your perspective is wrong regarding comparing CS to PE. There are two reasons PDs care about these two exams. First, in a normal year it gives them a way to weed out people with failures (or no repeat pass by interview and ranking) to make the applicant pool smaller. Secondly, they care because previously it was required to get licensed and sit for step 3/level 3. If a student didn't have this done then it is no guarantee that the student will have it done after contractually matching with the student but before graduation. That leads to the possibility of having an intern with licensing issues and needing time off work to take the exam (read:headache).

I'm sure most PDs realize the exams are complete bull**** but now MD students represent no worry to PDs with regards to creating a headache from needing to get it done during intern year/delaying licensure. DO students still represent a chance for this to occur. Like it or not, that's why we can potentially be treated differently than MD students more than we already are this year. You can thank Gimpel and the NBOME for sabotaging you from within our own organizations/leadership. Feels ****ing fantastic doesn't it?!

It's complete bull**** and on this principle alone the PE should be canceled so that DO students are not disadvantaged over such a stupid, stupid thing. (or the pandemic you NBOME *****s reading this)

Good points. So you're saying that they wont care about an MD with a failed CS because they can take step 3 without it? I mean didnt COCA release a statement saying we can graduate without the PE...but it seems like most PDs are not aware of that. Also, I think MDs will still have to take CS at some time because there is no way they are letting that much profit slip from them and they will have to do so during residency. I definitely agree that if he just delayed it for the same duration as CS then we would finally be viewed as equals in that regard.

Honestly it is very disheartening that nothing can be done from our side as they have full leverage and power and our voices are not getting through. Not trying to be negative but nothing has changed in the last few months. This has been suggested before on here but I believe we need to target ERAS as they are the ones who can cancel those filters specifically.

 

[Neopolymath]

Good points. So you're saying that they wont care about an MD with a failed CS because they can take step 3 without it? I mean didnt COCA release a statement saying we can graduate without the PE...but it seems like most PDs are not aware of that. Also, I think MDs will still have to take CS at some time because there is no way they are letting that much profit slip from them and they will have to do so during residency. I definitely agree that if he just delayed it for the same duration as CS then we would finally be viewed as equals in that regard.

Honestly it is very disheartening that nothing can be done from our side as they have full leverage and power and our voices are not getting through. Not trying to be negative but nothing has changed in the last few months. This has been suggested before on here but I believe we need to target ERAS as they are the ones who can cancel those filters specifically.

I'll preface this by reiterating that this is just my perspective.

I can't predict what they will do about the hypothetical MD who has a failed CS. That said, a guiding principle of people in general is that they do what gives them the least work. This is true for most people in most jobs. If possible with ERAS, they totally could just get rid of all candidates with a CS fail even though the exam is canceled if their goal was to just thin their applicant pool so they don't have to look at as many people. A more optimistic view would be that they ignore all CS scores because they know the exam is pointless but my opinion of the 9 PDs I've known in my life isn't particularly kind unfortunately. MD students will NOT have to take CS to sit for Step 3 for the class of 2021. This is fact! The NBME actually did the right thing in a relatively short amount of time. They will go take Step 3 intern year and get their $$ refund and move on with their lives.

Contrast that to DO students who, at this moment, will be required to take the PE in order to sit for Level 3 and move on with their lives even if it means going to pay $1500 to do fake ass OMM on fake ass patients after already taking care of real, sick patients in the hospital as interns. You cannot make this **** up. It's truly incredible.

ERAS has no motivation or interest in removing tools to sort applicants. What would their reason be?

 

[hawthorn9797]

I'll preface this by reiterating that this is just my perspective.

I can't predict what they will do about the hypothetical MD who has a failed CS. That said, a guiding principle of people in general is that they do what gives them the least work. This is true for most people in most jobs. If possible with ERAS, they totally could just get rid of all candidates with a CS fail even though the exam is canceled if their goal was to just thin their applicant pool so they don't have to look at as many people. A more optimistic view would be that they ignore all CS scores because they know the exam is pointless but my opinion of the 9 PDs I've known in my life isn't particularly kind unfortunately. MD students will NOT have to take CS to sit for Step 3 for the class of 2021. This is fact! The NBME actually did the right thing in a relatively short amount of time. They will go take Step 3 intern year and get their $$ refund and move on with their lives.

Contrast that to DO students who, at this moment, will be required to take the PE in order to sit for Level 3 and move on with their lives even if it means going to pay $1500 to do fake ass OMM on fake ass patients after already taking care of real, sick patients in the hospital as interns. You cannot make this **** up. It's truly incredible.

ERAS has no motivation or interest in removing tools to sort applicants. What would their reason be?

We won’t have to worry about PE if we don’t get to become interns. Lol these bastards are so cold hearted.

 

[Neopolymath]

We won’t have to worry about PE if we don’t get to become interns. Lol these bastards are so cold hearted.

And one more outraged post from me to fuel my anxiety over something so simple to fix: In true NBOME fashion I expect them to postpone or cancel the exam again AFTER ERAS has opened which will negatively affect the application season even if the thing is canceled. It's too perfectly terrible for these incompetent fools not to do. They can't resist.

 

[hawthorn9797]

And one more outraged post from me to fuel my anxiety over something so simple to fix: In true NBOME fashion I expect them to postpone or cancel the exam again AFTER ERAS has opened which will negatively affect the application season even if the thing is canceled. It's too perfectly terrible for these incompetent fools to not do.

Sorry to add to the anxiety. I am experiencing it too trust me. I just have zero faith left in this system, specifically, the NBOME. Very shady people

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I'm sure most PDs realize the exams are complete bull**** but now MD students represent no worry to PDs with regards to creating a headache from needing to get it done during intern year/delaying licensure. DO students still represent a chance for this to occur. Like it or not, that's why we can potentially be treated differently than MD students more than we already are this year. You can thank Gimpel and the NBOME for sabotaging you from within our own organizations/leadership. Feels ****ing fantastic doesn't it?!

It's complete bull**** and on this principle alone the PE should be canceled so that DO students are not disadvantaged over such a stupid, stupid thing. (or the pandemic you NBOME *****s reading this)

This. A high ranking official at my school literally told students they believe that the NBOME should be held directly accountable for every unmatched DO this year.

It's absolutely *****ic how they have behaved over this. DO's are already pretty heavily disadvantaged in many ways, and now our own organizations are making that significantly worse.

 

[TheGift]

I'll preface this by reiterating that this is just my perspective.

I can't predict what they will do about the hypothetical MD who has a failed CS. That said, a guiding principle of people in general is that they do what gives them the least work. This is true for most people in most jobs. If possible with ERAS, they totally could just get rid of all candidates with a CS fail even though the exam is canceled if their goal was to just thin their applicant pool so they don't have to look at as many people. A more optimistic view would be that they ignore all CS scores because they know the exam is pointless but my opinion of the 9 PDs I've known in my life isn't particularly kind unfortunately. MD students will NOT have to take CS to sit for Step 3 for the class of 2021. This is fact! The NBME actually did the right thing in a relatively short amount of time. They will go take Step 3 intern year and get their $$ refund and move on with their lives.

Contrast that to DO students who, at this moment, will be required to take the PE in order to sit for Level 3 and move on with their lives even if it means going to pay $1500 to do fake ass OMM on fake ass patients after already taking care of real, sick patients in the hospital as interns. You cannot make this **** up. It's truly incredible.

ERAS has no motivation or interest in removing tools to sort applicants. What would their reason be?

I guess its human nature to be lazy and take the path of least resistance. Oh well looks like many more will be soaping this year. I just give up on this $hitty money hungry process and system that looks to always use others for its self benefit. Honestly....just tired of competing. Anyways good luck to all this cycle.

 

[Neopolymath]

I guess its human nature to be lazy and take the path of least resistance. Oh well looks like many more will be soaping this year. I just give up on this $hitty money hungry process and system that looks to always use others for its self benefit. Honestly....just tired of competing. Anyways good luck to all this cycle.

We will make it. Chin up!

 

[Neopolymath]

This. A high ranking official at my school literally told students they believe that the NBOME should be held directly accountable for every unmatched DO this year.

It's absolutely *****ic how they have behaved over this. DO's are already pretty heavily disadvantaged in many ways, and now our own organizations are making that significantly worse.

Hot Take Alert:
The more I think about it the more I think that the reason PE wasn't canceled was about OMM, not the money. It's certainly why there was zero effort into creating a virtual exam. The true believers absolutely would care about that more than $15 million as a way to "show everyone how unique we are." I truly believe these people would sacrifice everything to keep that going as evidenced by most of their policies.

 

[hawthorn9797]

Hot Take Alert:
The more I think about it the more I think that the reason PE wasn't canceled was about OMM, not the money. It's certainly why there was zero effort into creating a virtual exam. The true believers absolutely would care about that more than $15 million as a way to "show everyone how unique we are." I truly believe these people would sacrifice everything to keep that going as evidenced by most of their policies.

If thousands of careers are delayed
/ruined because of not being able to showcase our back message skillz, a class action lawsuit is in order

 

[Prehealth1011]

Sorry if it’s been mentioned already but any word on when they’re dropping the next “update” on this clusterfk of a situation?

 

[bigindian4891]

Sorry if it’s been mentioned already but any word on when they’re dropping the next “update” on this clusterfk of a situation?

Based on how inept they are, we will get an announcement on October 31st... "We heard you! Based on student feedback, PE has been delayed to January 1st, 2021. Also, fail rate is increased to 50% so you can take it again to make up for our lost profits."

 

[hawthorn9797]

Based on how inept they are, we will get an announcement on October 31st... "We heard you! Based on student feedback, PE has been delayed to January 1st, 2021. Also, fail rate is increased to 50% so you can take it again to make up for our lost profits."

Seriously though, why is it I could actually see them failing more people in order to recoup their losses by forcing make ups?? And the worst part is, no matter what they decide to do, even if it is as ridiculously currupt as failing extra people to force retakes, there is not a damn thing any of us can do about it. This whole dictatorship has got to be illegal under some law somewhere... extortion, coercion, racketeering, any law people out there??? We have got to stop these people. Why do they control our lives financially And professionally with no oversight?
@Goro what can we do (with all respect, thank you Goro, you are the man and always will be)

 

[Neopolymath]

Sounds like the MDs are in the same delima with the ERAS filter situation if they dont have the Step 2 CS. I dont see how this would put DOs at a worse advantage. I hear alot of DOs not being able to obtain clinical rotations due to the Rona as worse than this PE fiasco. I think this will workout in the end and you all will match similar to 2020.

MDs do not have to take CS this year... It was waived as a requirement completely. A tiny subset of MDs managed to fail CS before it was cancelled whereas MOST DOs haven't even taken PE and won't before rank lists. I don't know how to make this clearer???

 

[dabo52]

Check out the NBOME’s latest update. They are hellbent on administering this exam. I bet it will start on November 1st unless COVID gets worse.

COMLEX USA Level 2-PE — NBOME

www.nbome.org

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Check out the NBOME’s latest update. They are hellbent on administering this exam. I bet it will start on November 1st unless COVID gets worse.

COMLEX USA Level 2-PE — NBOME

www.nbome.org

They are hellbent on giving this exam, but I see quite a bit of hedging in that statement about November 1 already.

Another fluff piece written by Gimpel to defend his ****ty exam.

 

[johnpablo85]

truly embarrassing

 

[getfat]

"We understand and appreciate the ongoing concerns related to travel to test. Approximately 56% of the DO students the Class of 2021 are enrolled at a college of osteopathic medicine located within an 8 hour drive of one of our current testing locations, and 25% of the anticipated graduating DO Class of 2021 have already passed the exam."

I guess this is their answer for our concern regarding flying. Assuming most of us have a reliable car that can make that drive to philly or chicago.

And you know, the 8 hours of available time (so 16 hours total there and back) for those of us rotating in November.

And assuming our rotation is anywhere near our local college. Which for most DO rotations it is not.

 

[qwertythrowaway]

They are the f****ing worst

 

[drplzz]

Does anyone know a class action lawyer who might be familiar with stuff like this? This is ridiculous, and maybe a nudge from a lawyer suggesting massive litigation if they move forward might help the NBOME to realize how insane this all is.

 

[Prehealth1011]

There’s no convincing them. It’s not enough that we’re being scammed out of our a$$ during 4th year where DO schools do nothing to find you rotations and you gotta be hospital hopping like a homeless person. You must also be fked by your own organization for every nickle and dime. Tis the life of a DO. I can’t wait to get into residency at which point I can give my middle finger to anything osteopathic. We all knew this was a means to an end, but getting it up our ashes this many times hurts.

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

My school told us recently to just reschedule out past March. This really only benefits the school. No chance of us having a failing score and messing with their passing %.

I guess im going to keep my December date. I might be one of the lucky ones and roll snake eyes - get COVID, Influenza, and the rhinovirus all at once. I've always wondered what being on ECMO felt like.

 

[qwertythrowaway]

Not sure how they calculated their metrics - but I’d guess the majority of students who took the PE and passed it are local students. So sure, 56% of students overall live within 8 hours of a PE site. But I’d hedge that the percent of students who haven’t tested yet are primarily coming from locations farther than 8 hours (PNWU, western in CA, Touro Cali, RVU + branch campuses, UNT, the three Florida schools, Burrell, ATSU-AZ, ACOM, VCOM-AL + SC branches, William Carey are all > 8 hrs from both sites). lol at the mention of opening a third site in 2021. This directly contradicts Gimpels statements in the MAY/June webinars that there was no way they would do this in the next year. They’ve had six months to come up with a plan and this is the best they could come up with. This is pathetic at best, and exploitative at worst.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Not sure how they calculated their metrics - but I’d guess the majority of students who took the PE and passed it are local students. So sure, 56% of students overall live within 8 hours of a PE site. But I’d hedge that the percent of students who haven’t tested yet are primarily coming from locations farther than 8 hours (PNWU, western in CA, Touro Cali, RVU + branch campuses, UNT, the three Florida schools, Burrell, ATSU-AZ, ACOM, VCOM-AL + SC branches, William Carey are all > 8 hrs from both sites). lol at the mention of opening a third site in 2021. This directly contradicts Gimpels statements in the MAY/June webinars that there was no way they would do this in the next year. They’ve had six months to come up with a plan and this is the best they could come up with. This is pathetic at best, and exploitative at worst.

Literally everything Gimpel has said this entire cycle in all of his webinars has been proven to be false lol.

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

If you guys have Twitter I would log on and respond to this tweet. It could potentially get us some recognition at the state and federal levels.

Make sure to @ Nbome and AOA.

 

[TXKnight]

If you guys have Twitter I would log on and respond to this tweet. It could potentially get us some recognition at the state and federal levels.

Make sure to @ Nbome and AOA.
View attachment 317534

So there's this group @EthicalStudents, they're apparently a group of premeds that brought their MCAT issue to the staffers of Senator Warren and Rep. Ro Khanna. That's how you move the needle with these orgs, arm twisting and a little dose of good ol' government regulation threat.

I wish I knew some staffers...
OR lived in a state where the senators actually cared

 

[hallowmann]

I’m gonna go the route of just politely asking during interviews what the programs policies on the PE/CS are and if they’re unaware of the current issues with delays respectfully informing them that cancelations have made having a score before rank impossible. If enough people do this while on the trails they’ll become informed.

This isn’t a handful of people without PE/CS this is pretty much the majority of the class of 2021

Guys, there's something you all need to realize, PDs are busy. They are not up to date on the happenings of students unless 1) they are actively involved in students at their affiliated med schools or 2) it directly affects how they do something (like the virtual interview season).

The only way they'll really get that PE doesn't exist for most students this year is by people actually telling them over and over, like @Scrubs101 is going to do. I would also encourage all DO residents inform their PDs that this exam has been postponed to the point that the vast majority of students will not have a result before ROL time and that its not required for graduation. My PD assumed it was canceled like the CS, because she's closely involved in the MD school here (I didn't bother to correct them because I think this is eventually what will happen and it doesn't hurt applicants).

 

[BatmanDO9]

I’m sorry you all are going through this. Anyone without a PE before applications should consider extending their graduation date and pursue research or some other scholarly activity. The risk of entering the match without a PE (or a failed PE without a documented successful second attempt) and not matching outweighs an extra year of something productive, IMO.

worst advice I’ve EVER heard!

 

[BatmanDO9]

I don’t know about all of you but when I’m an attending and making good money, I’ll die before I will ever donate a penny to the AOA, NBOME, and other DO organizations after how everything has been handled during the pandemic.

 

[sunshinefl]

I’m debating if I should keep my November date or move to June.

pros: results by ROL

cons: have to miss 2 days of an audition, it’s during interview season and I wouldn’t be able to miss any more time of that rotation for interviews per school max of 2 days, have to travel to Chicago and risk personal/hospital COVID19 exposure, risk having fail vs neutral, nervous about taking with masks affecting history gathering and humanism, chance it gets cancelled again or waived after I take it, chance they delay again and then I’ll be stuck rescheduling even later than June, wait 3 months for Feb result vs the 1 month wait for Dec result when I signed up for it

 

[qwertythrowaway]

I’m debating if I should keep my November date or move to June.

pros: results by ROL

cons: have to miss 2 days of an audition, it’s during interview season and I wouldn’t be able to miss any more time of that rotation for interviews per school max of 2 days, have to travel to Chicago and risk personal/hospital COVID19 exposure, risk having fail vs neutral, nervous about taking with masks affecting history gathering and humanism, chance it gets cancelled again or waived after I take it, chance they delay again and then I’ll be stuck rescheduling even later than June, wait 3 months for Feb result vs the 1 month wait for Dec result when I signed up for it

there's no penalty to cancel last minute in 2020. if someone were to develop sx 24 hrs before the test, there is no penalty for last minute cancellation. my personal hope is that all november/december test takers cancel ~24-48 hrs before their test dates.

IMO, the benefit of staying on the audition rotation, especially if it's a bit of a reach audition, is worth skipping the PE. in a sea of zoom interviewees, this is a prime opportunity to set yourself apart and make valuable connections. traveling to chicago, potentially getting stuck in a quarantine situation and missing time off that rotation, wouldn't be worth it to me.

 

[ritts]

there's no penalty to cancel last minute in 2020. if someone were to develop sx 24 hrs before the test, there is no penalty for last minute cancellation. my personal hope is that all november/december test takers cancel ~24-48 hrs before their test dates.

IMO, the benefit of staying on the audition rotation, especially if it's a bit of a reach audition, is worth skipping the PE. in a sea of zoom interviewees, this is a prime opportunity to set yourself apart and make valuable connections. traveling to chicago, potentially getting stuck in a quarantine situation and missing time off that rotation, wouldn't be worth it to me.

Idk, not having a passed PE could hurt people (including myself) if PDs aren't aware of the situation we've been put in by our crappy leadership. I'm planning on talking to the PD I'm working with this rotation to see what he knows/inform him of the issue