Advice on Ranking California Residencies

[dr.yeezy]

I wanted to hear the board's thoughts on the reputation/training quality of different residencies and how you guys would rank them based on the current rumors surrounding each institution.

USC vs Cedars-Sinai
- Currently there's a divide between Keck and LAC-USC -> unsure of how it effects resident education or possibility that residents may not be able to rotate at Keck in the future...
- Cedars-Sinai -> lots of attending turnover with now attendings being newly employed directly under Cedars-Sinai. Lots of changes (unsure if positive or negative changes) to be made with the new Chair and CRNAs starting to be used

UCSD vs USC
- USC seems to have better work life balance but issues as stated above
- UCSD has a very strong reputation but residents reported they work insane hours here (75-80hrs CA1 year)

Harbor UCLA vs LLU vs UCI
- UCI has a reputation for favoring CRNA's preferences and being "CRNA run"

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[USCTrojan11]

IMHO

1. UCLA - best combo of lifestyle and training, excellent hearts and liver program
3. USC - lots of instability with the program likely going the direction of county residency only. Similar to Harbor-UCLA with better and more educational attendings
4. Cedars - also changing to more private model - weird that when I was interviewing it was strictly 1:1 with a private practice doc. Not sure what it means but I don't think it's an improvement
2. UCSD - Very uppity and academic, take pride in "working" long hours, lots of didactic curriculum and structured. Don't remember much else. Strong fellowship programs
5. UCI - kinda get the impression you are the work force and the "glue" that makes the program profitable. When there's no CRNA who wants to stay after 3 (even for overtime pay)? Put a resident in there and pay them nothing. Weekends, overnight call are all resident "run". Attendings, aside from a couple, don't seem to care much for education.

 

[thinkorswim]

Thanks for the insight - how would you choose between UCSD and USC then?

Would you work a lot more in exchange for more stability in the program?

UCSD, without question. The work hours and program stability don’t matter as much as where you’ll be able to go afterwards.

 

[Katheudontas parateroumen]

I interviewed at all those places (except UCI but I was a medicine prelim there). Overall, i think all the cali programs would be good for case volume.

UCLA seems to have the most well rounded program. Although I had heard from rotating students their didactics and education wasn't great. But honestly, probably not as important as the case volume and acuity that you'll see there. The UCLA name is good too.
UCSD also was very strong, I think right up to par with UCLA. I think the culture at UCSD was lots of autonomy though. Sink or swim. That's the impression I got.
Loma Linda was good. I think you get all the cases there as well that you'd want. I rotated there as a med student, just wasn't "wowed". Seemed like the standard. I believe peds training there was especially good.
Cedars was kinda strange. At the time I interviewed a few years ago it was still 1:1 and residents were basically here or there. One thing that i liked was that since you weren't a necessary part of the team, they all had time to get at least basic TEE cert, some took the advanced exam, so that's nice perk. I think this is a place you should really do an away at to get a good feel of the program. It has a super busy ICU, OB (most deliveries), CV (most heart transplants) divisions so could be good experience.
USC on paper has everything but once again, looked like residents don't get priority in education as during my interview one of them was upfront about their less than average ITE scores, etc. Everyone seemed to do private practice after that program so maybe it's a good route if you're not interested in fellowship/academics. I also disliked the majority surgical prelim.
Harbor was mostly a community program. The residents there appeared pretty confident in their abilities. They touted though they didn't have to work that hard and made lots of extra moonlighting money six figure residents lol. I think it was standard type of program. Probably lots of trauma. Nothing else in house was great though.

 

[dr.yeezy]

UCSD, without question. The work hours and program stability don’t matter as much as where you’ll be able to go afterwards.

I interviewed at all those places (except UCI but I was a medicine prelim there). Overall, i think all the cali programs would be good for case volume.

UCLA seems to have the most well rounded program. Although I had heard from rotating students their didactics and education wasn't great. But honestly, probably not as important as the case volume and acuity that you'll see there. The UCLA name is good too.
UCSD also was very strong, I think right up to par with UCLA. I think the culture at UCSD was lots of autonomy though. Sink or swim. That's the impression I got.
Loma Linda was good. I think you get all the cases there as well that you'd want. I rotated there as a med student, just wasn't "wowed". Seemed like the standard. I believe peds training there was especially good.
Cedars was kinda strange. At the time I interviewed a few years ago it was still 1:1 and residents were basically here or there. One thing that i liked was that since you weren't a necessary part of the team, they all had time to get at least basic TEE cert, some took the advanced exam, so that's nice perk. I think this is a place you should really do an away at to get a good feel of the program. It has a super busy ICU, OB (most deliveries), CV (most heart transplants) divisions so could be good experience.
USC on paper has everything but once again, looked like residents don't get priority in education as during my interview one of them was upfront about their less than average ITE scores, etc. Everyone seemed to do private practice after that program so maybe it's a good route if you're not interested in fellowship/academics. I also disliked the majority surgical prelim.
Harbor was mostly a community program. The residents there appeared pretty confident in their abilities. They touted though they didn't have to work that hard and made lots of extra moonlighting money six figure residents lol. I think it was standard type of program. Probably lots of trauma. Nothing else in house was great though.

You guys are really helpful. If i also interviewed at top programs (MGH, UPMC, BWH, Michigan, NW, etc) would ya'll advise to go to middle tier california programs over these if my goal is to ultimately practice west coast (& family ties are all here) or to go to the best program I can

 

[GassYous]

You guys are really helpful. If i also interviewed at top programs (MGH, UPMC, BWH, Michigan, NW, etc) would ya'll advise to go to middle tier california programs over these if my goal is to ultimately practice west coast (& family ties are all here) or to go to the best program I can

Top program without a doubt if you're not in the running for stanford/ucsf/ucla
Tremper's phone call can open doors

 

[kidthor]

You guys are really helpful. If i also interviewed at top programs (MGH, UPMC, BWH, Michigan, NW, etc) would ya'll advise to go to middle tier california programs over these if my goal is to ultimately practice west coast (& family ties are all here) or to go to the best program I can

Personally I would go to the “better” program provided I liked the place otherwise. There is some local networking in socal but coming from a big name place elsewhere would help get a job anywhere. Unless you were inexorably tied to CA I’d never personally pick the lower tiered CA programs over MGH or UPMC, as an example.

Plus one day you might realize buying a 2 million dollar shack just isn’t worth the sunshine tax.

 

[nimbus]

Are you thermally weak like I am? If so, go somewhere warm.

I remember interviewing in cold gray Boston one week. The experience of landing at LAX during the golden hour the following week for west coast interviews decided it for me. I personally love the west coast. Made me a happier person. But everyone has different tastes and priorities.

 

[nimbus]

Personally I would go to the “better” program provided I liked the place otherwise. There is some local networking in socal but coming from a big name place elsewhere would help get a job anywhere. Unless you were inexorably tied to CA I’d never personally pick the lower tiered CA programs over MGH or UPMC, as an example.

Plus one day you might realize buying a 2 million dollar shack just isn’t worth the sunshine tax.

True.

If market conditions remain how they are, folks will have no trouble getting a job in SoCal from any reputable program.

 

[Precedexx]

UCSD, UCLA, Stanford and UCSF are the top California programs by far. I interviewed at all of them and liked them all, although they each had different flavors.

UCSF: I'm sure the clinical training and research opportunities are great. However, I didn't like how you were spread out of over many different hospitals as a resident and the residents seemed pretty stressed out. I thought SF might be a kinda stressful place for residency too.
Stanford: Awesome hospital, great clinicals, etc. Residents seemed happy. Biggest/only downside for me was Palo Alto. Didn't want to live in a place that suburban and it's dumb expensive.
UCLA: Seems like an awesome program. Happy residents, tons of great cases, work hours seemed pretty reasonable. LA is hit or miss. Super cool city, tons of culture/food, but ****ty traffic.
UCSD: Smaller program with cases/resources of a big program. Medium-sized transplant program that is growing fast, top notch cardiac/ICU, top notch regional/pain. Lots of focus on autonomy and early independence in OR. Hard working program but residents seem happy. SD seemed like an awesome place to live.

 

[repititionition]

If you want to be in Southern California, among those you mentioned, pick UCSD.

If you do not “have” to be in Southern California and have the option of Mass Gen or BWH (I’m sorry, everyone, Pitt and Michigan are without a doubt great programs turning out great anesthesiologists but not in the absolute top tier of training), I would recommend you put in four years in Boston, at which point you can move wherever you want to.

If you are choosing UCSD vs Pitt or Michigan and are not certain you want a job in California following training, go to Pitt or Michigan, then consider a fellowship in California if you decide that is where you want to settle.

 

[GassYous]

If you want to be in Southern California, among those you mentioned, pick UCSD.

If you do not “have” to be in Southern California and have the option of Mass Gen or BWH (I’m sorry, everyone, Pitt and Michigan are without a doubt great programs turning out great anesthesiologists but not in the absolute top tier of training), I would recommend you put in four years in Boston, at which point you can move wherever you want to.

If you are choosing UCSD vs Pitt or Michigan and are not certain you want a job in California following training, go to Pitt or Michigan, then consider a fellowship in California if you decide that is where you want to settle.

Is boston really that great though?

 

[tflaceraction]

I wanted to hear the board's thoughts on the reputation/training quality of different residencies and how you guys would rank them based on the current rumors surrounding each institution.

USC vs Cedars-Sinai
- Currently there's a divide between Keck and LAC-USC -> unsure of how it effects resident education or possibility that residents may not be able to rotate at Keck in the future...
- Cedars-Sinai -> lots of attending turnover with now attendings being newly employed directly under Cedars-Sinai. Lots of changes (unsure if positive or negative changes) to be made with the new Chair and CRNAs starting to be used

UCSD vs USC
- USC seems to have better work life balance but issues as stated above
- UCSD has a very strong reputation but residents reported they work insane hours here (75-80hrs CA1 year)

Harbor UCLA vs LLU vs UCI
- UCI has a reputation for favoring CRNA's preferences and being "CRNA run"

USC: I would be wary of USC right now, this program is undergoing major changes and many of them are not viewed positively by the residents or attendings. Beginning in July Keck attendings will no longer be working at LA County and Keck provides most of the specialty trained and more experienced attendings. As mentioned be another poster, the ITE scores tend to be low and the didatics are not great. There are also rumors that LA County wants to eventually stop sending residents to Keck entirely although there is no timeframe for this that I am aware of. There is also a rumor that Keck wants to start its own residency which will hurt the resident experience for the LAC residents as this is where they get their numbers for specialties like cardiac, vascular, thoracic, transplant, regional, etc. It is also concerning the LAC lets non-fellowhip trained attendings do specialty services like cardiac, peds and regional as well as lets non ABA certified attendings do board teaching like mock orals (you need to have taken the oral exam to teach how to take the oral exam). The older attendings at LAC seem to be 'checked out' and the younger attendings still need mentorhship (as all young attendings do) and the lack of the more experienced attendings will be harmful for resident education and training as the CA1 year is almost entirely at LAC. Although the current CA3 residents are well trained and competent, the residency, in my opinion, is heading in the wrong direction and I would be very hesitant to start my training at a place with so many unknowns.

Cedars: Also a program undergoing major changes, although it seems to be going the right direction. Another poster mentioned that it is going more private but its actually the opposite. Up until 2020 Cedars was a MD only private group. For the last two years it has been transitioning into a more traditional model. The new chair is from UCSF and seems to be trying to model Cedars after that. Cedars is an enormous hospital so I wouldn't worry about CRNAs starting to work there, when you have 100 anesthetizing areas there is plenty to go around. There has been turnover but it's mostly older attendings who have left and the new hires have been almost exclusively experienced, fellowship trained attendings. There are still plenty of growing pains with the new model but this program will be increasing residency size and is going the right direction.

UCLA: I don't have personal experience with this program but I have worked with residents and attendings who have trained here and the almost universally like their experience and are very well trained.

UCSD: again, no personal experience but I've heard good things.

Feel free to message me with any specific questions

 

[Twiggidy]

Is boston really that great though?

Outside certain aspects of the people, I dig Boston.

 

[Twiggidy]

UCSD, UCLA, Stanford and UCSF are the top California programs by far. I interviewed at all of them and liked them all, although they each had different flavors.

UCSF: I'm sure the clinical training and research opportunities are great. However, I didn't like how you were spread out of over many different hospitals as a resident and the residents seemed pretty stressed out. I thought SF might be a kinda stressful place for residency too.
Stanford: Awesome hospital, great clinicals, etc. Residents seemed happy. Biggest/only downside for me was Palo Alto. Didn't want to live in a place that suburban and it's dumb expensive.
UCLA: Seems like an awesome program. Happy residents, tons of great cases, work hours seemed pretty reasonable. LA is hit or miss. Super cool city, tons of culture/food, but ****ty traffic.
UCSD: Smaller program with cases/resources of a big program. Medium-sized transplant program that is growing fast, top notch cardiac/ICU, top notch regional/pain. Lots of focus on autonomy and early independence in OR. Hard working program but residents seem happy. SD seemed like an awesome place to live.

I like this response and I get a sense it's accurate. From the programs the OP is mentioning it sounds like they will have their pick on what to rank. I agree that if you're going to do the California thing, do it at a top notch program especially if you want to stay in California where networking matters. The "Good" practices in California tend to not use recruiters or show up on Gasworks because all the practice recruiting is "word of mouth". If the OP wants to do residency/fellowship elsewhere, then definitely go to the best possible program. I would do MGH or Michigan over Loma Linda and maybe even UCI, for example, because you're just going to get better training and better opportunities with those names on the CV.

And additional consideration, I know a lot of people want to "return to California" because "they have ties". Just bear in mind, those "ties" aren't going to pay that 2 million dollar mortgage and sorry, you don't move to California to live in the central valley (no disrespect to people in the central valley)....that is unless that's where your "ties" are.

 

[repititionition]

Will just say that Loma Linda is a weird dark horse program. Don’t know a thing about their training, but their alumni tend to spread out to diverse and interesting places and setup hiring pipelines.

 

[USCTrojan11]

TBH there's really only 3 great so cal jobs (as you can see from the other LA/OC thread) if you want to be compensated (somewhat) fairly and have a (somewhat) decent lifestyle

- Mission
- Hoag
- ASMG

Anyone can apply for ASMG but they like and usually hire top program talent.
Hoag almost exclusively recruits the chiefs and cardiac trained people from UCLA or UCSD. I'm sure they have enough alumni from Stanford or UCSF to also get considered. Fellowship in CA also helps. It is extremely word of mouth to get your CV in the door.
Mission won't respond to CVs unless brought directly by someone working there. You can also see where all their recent hires are from.
Desirable Kaisers will consider anyone willing to put in their time being per diem until an associate position opens up which then is a certain amount of years to "partner" or whatever term they use. But you better hope you don't make any enemies along the way and offer all those who control your fate a bunch of breaks and block their patients and write their pre-op notes.

 

[lakersbaby]

TBH there's really only 3 great so cal jobs (as you can see from the other LA/OC thread) if you want to be compensated (somewhat) fairly and have a (somewhat) decent lifestyle

- Mission
- Hoag
- ASMG

Anyone can apply for ASMG but they like and usually hire top program talent.
Hoag almost exclusively recruits the chiefs and cardiac trained people from UCLA or UCSD. I'm sure they have enough alumni from Stanford or UCSF to also get considered. Fellowship in CA also helps. It is extremely word of mouth to get your CV in the door.
Mission won't respond to CVs unless brought directly by someone working there. You can also see where all their recent hires are from.
Desirable Kaisers will consider anyone willing to put in their time being per diem until an associate position opens up which then is a certain amount of years to "partner" or whatever term they use. But you better hope you don't make any enemies along the way and offer all those who control your fate a bunch of breaks and block their patients and write their pre-op notes.

ASMG is pretty open to anyone right now just might be right timing for people who don't think they are competitive applicants. Job market is good in san diego with new kaiser hospital opening leading to lots of openings at ASMG and ACCMG.

UCSD is on par with any top tier program in my opinion just based on overall experience working with grads. All the top tier california programs (UCSD, Stanford, UCLA etc... will train you well. if you are competitive just see where you would want to live and work in the future.

 

[lakersbaby]

I like this response and I get a sense it's accurate. From the programs the OP is mentioning it sounds like they will have their pick on what to rank. I agree that if you're going to do the California thing, do it at a top notch program especially if you want to stay in California where networking matters. The "Good" practices in California tend to not use recruiters or show up on Gasworks because all the practice recruiting is "word of mouth". If the OP wants to do residency/fellowship elsewhere, then definitely go to the best possible program. I would do MGH or Michigan over Loma Linda and maybe even UCI, for example, because you're just going to get better training and better opportunities with those names on the CV.

And additional consideration, I know a lot of people want to "return to California" because "they have ties". Just bear in mind, those "ties" aren't going to pay that 2 million dollar mortgage and sorry, you don't move to California to live in the central valley (no disrespect to people in the central valley)....that is unless that's where your "ties" are.

spot on about california. San Diego is now the most expensive place to live in the country based on incomes, housing prices, highest gasoline prices in country and highest energy/gas cost in country. Rough place to start a career in.

 

[thinkorswim]

TBH there's really only 3 great so cal jobs (as you can see from the other LA/OC thread) if you want to be compensated (somewhat) fairly and have a (somewhat) decent lifestyle

- Mission
- Hoag
- ASMG

Anyone can apply for ASMG but they like and usually hire top program talent.
Hoag almost exclusively recruits the chiefs and cardiac trained people from UCLA or UCSD. I'm sure they have enough alumni from Stanford or UCSF to also get considered. Fellowship in CA also helps. It is extremely word of mouth to get your CV in the door.
Mission won't respond to CVs unless brought directly by someone working there. You can also see where all their recent hires are from.
Desirable Kaisers will consider anyone willing to put in their time being per diem until an associate position opens up which then is a certain amount of years to "partner" or whatever term they use. But you better hope you don't make any enemies along the way and offer all those who control your fate a bunch of breaks and block their patients and write their pre-op notes.

Not exactly true these days for those first three groups. It's a hot market even in Southern California and they are growing quickly.

I can't speak for Kaiser though.

 

[DrOwnage]

I graduated from UCLA in 2020 and am part of ACCMG in SD. It is true everyone is hiring very actively in SD including us, ASMG, and Kaiser. Practices change even though the old rumors still circulate locally. We recently signed a large contract with our hospital group which now subsidizes the group, but we pretty much remain independent status with regards to running the group and are still 1099 employees. Our unit value and call stipends have increased significantly and are very competitive for SoCal.

 

[nimbus]

Not exactly true these days for those first three groups. It's a hot market even in Southern California and they are growing quickly.

I can't speak for Kaiser though.

I graduated from UCLA in 2020 and am part of ACCMG in SD. It is true everyone is hiring very actively in SD including us, ASMG, and Kaiser. Practices change even though the old rumors still circulate locally. We recently signed a large contract with our hospital group which now subsidizes the group, but we pretty much remain independent status with regards to running the group and are still 1099 employees. Our unit value and call stipends have increased significantly and are very competitive for SoCal.

For anyone remotely interested in moving to area, now is the time to do it. Things are pretty much wide open. Also I feel like housing will not get any cheaper. There’s a shortage of developable land, only more and more building regulations, and nimbyism.

 

[Twiggidy]

For anyone remotely interested in moving to area, now is the time to do it. Things are pretty much wide open. Also I feel like housing will not get any cheaper. There’s a shortage of developable land, only more and more building regulations, and nimbyism.

That's interesting because I feel like I just saw an article today that said SD has surpassed SF as the most expensive in the country. Admittedly, I didn't have time to read the article.

 

[nimbus]

That's interesting because I feel like I just saw an article today that said SD has surpassed SF as the most expensive in the country. Admittedly, I didn't have time to read the article.

Lower median household income in SD vs SF so even though homes are cheaper, affordability is lower.

 

[qwerty89]

I graduated from UCLA in 2020 and am part of ACCMG in SD. It is true everyone is hiring very actively in SD including us, ASMG, and Kaiser. Practices change even though the old rumors still circulate locally. We recently signed a large contract with our hospital group which now subsidizes the group, but we pretty much remain independent status with regards to running the group and are still 1099 employees. Our unit value and call stipends have increased significantly and are very competitive for SoCal.

Anesthesia Consultants of California Medical Group

www.accmg.com

This website works best on Netscape Navigator.

 

[nimbus]

Anesthesia Consultants of California Medical Group

www.accmg.com

This website works best on Netscape Navigator.

Haha!

Ours isn’t any better. Gotta keep that overhead down

If you want a fancy website, try an AMC…they have video testimonials and everything.

 

[qwerty89]

Haha!

Ours isn’t any better. Gotta keep that overhead down

If you want a fancy website, try an AMC…they have video testimonials and everything.

Homepage - Newport Harbor Anesthesia Consultants Medical Group, Inc.

HOMEABOUTABOUT USPHYSICIANSHIRE NHAC FOR YOUR ASCINSURANCEBILLINGFAQTYPES OF ANESTHESIAQ&AHIPAACONTACT USHOMEABOUTABOUT USPHYSICIANSHIRE NHAC FOR YOUR ASCINSURANCEBILLINGFAQTYPES OF ANESTHESIAQ&AHIPAACONTACT USDOCTORS YOU CAN TRUSTExcellence In AnesthesiaOrange County has trusted Newport Harbor...

www.newportharboranesthesia.com

That one is pretty nice

 

[Twiggidy]

Haha!

Ours isn’t any better. Gotta keep that overhead down

If you want a fancy website, try an AMC…they have video testimonials and everything.

Exactly. Spending all that money consulting web developer could give the anesthesiologists a few extra thousand bucks in their pockets. It's not a ton of money per person but enough to upgrade to a nicer Airbnb on vacation

 

[GassYous]

Exactly. Spending all that money consulting web developer could give the anesthesiologists a few extra thousand bucks in their pockets. It's not a ton of money per person but enough to upgrade to a nicer Airbnb on vacation

You mean a nicer 5 star hotel

 

[kidthor]

Not exactly true these days for those first three groups. It's a hot market even in Southern California and they are growing quickly.

I can't speak for Kaiser though.

I'm looking in socal and I'd call the market warmer than usual, but not hot. The rest of the country is much hotter. There really aren't many great jobs to be had in socal at the moment.

 

[thinkorswim]

I'm looking in socal and I'd call the market warmer than usual, but not hot. The rest of the country is much hotter. There really aren't many great jobs to be had in socal at the moment.

The good groups that usually only hire 1 or 2 people per year (and even none in some other years), are looking for 4-6 people.

As noted above, ASMG is interviewing anyone with a pulse who submits a CV without red flags. They are somewhat unique in feeling understaffed from two aspects: a growing need for new coverage and a lot of older partners retiring.

Kaiser and the UCs continue to build satellite facilities around every town.

It’s more than just a warm market at the moment. It’s probably as hot as it’s ever been.

 

[nimbus]

The good groups that usually only hire 1 or 2 people per year (and even none in some other years), are looking for 4-6 people.

As noted above, ASMG is interviewing anyone with a pulse who submits a CV without red flags. They are somewhat unique in feeling understaffed from two aspects: a growing need for new coverage and a lot of older partners retiring.

Kaiser and the UCs continue to build satellite facilities around every town.

It’s more than just a warm market at the moment. It’s probably as hot as it’s ever been.

I’ve been in the area since the 1990s. It’s the hottest that I’ve ever seen it by a large degree. Every single group I know of is hiring.

 

[Twiggidy]

I’ve been in the area since the 1990s. It’s the hottest that I’ve ever seen it by a large degree. Every single group I know of is hiring.

It's true. It seems like 10 years ago SoCal was a tough market to get into. I find it fascinating that even SD which was very tough not long ago has an abundance of opportunities. There's likely many reason and definitely pros and cons.

 

[nimbus]

It's true. It seems like 10 years ago SoCal was a tough market to get into. I find it fascinating that even SD which was very tough not long ago has an abundance of opportunities. There's likely many reason and definitely pros and cons.

Main reason we get from people who turn down offers is income/housing cost ratio.

 

[Twiggidy]

Main reason we get from people who turn down offers is income/housing cost ratio.

We have a colleague in another specialty (who probably makes more than us and who’s wife is also a physician (specialist)) who bought a house in the area and pretty much said they went over budget and said his family probably won’t go on vacation for a while. I’m sure it was somewhat tongue in cheek but also some truth.

That’s why I tell all the “how can I get a CA job because I have ties there?” to think of those ties can come and visit you in a less expensive place….or on the vacation my colleague apparently isn’t able to go one because he’s paying for his house.

 

[nimbus]

We have a colleague in another specialty (who probably makes more than us and who’s wife is also a physician (specialist)) who bought a house in the area and pretty much said they went over budget and said his family probably won’t go on vacation for a while. I’m sure it was somewhat tongue in cheek but also some truth.

That’s why I tell all the “how can I get a CA job because I have ties there?” to think of those ties can come and visit you in a less expensive place….or on the vacation my colleague apparently isn’t able to go one because he’s paying for his house.

The best ties to have are parents who give you their house or one of their houses. I have a partner who’s parents were physicians in Detroit. Over the years they bought 2 homes in La Jolla. When they retired, they moved into one of their La Jolla homes and gave the other to their son.

Also many 2 physician families in the community but I think that’s pretty common everywhere nowadays.

 

[GassYous]

We have a colleague in another specialty (who probably makes more than us and who’s wife is also a physician (specialist)) who bought a house in the area and pretty much said they went over budget and said his family probably won’t go on vacation for a while. I’m sure it was somewhat tongue in cheek but also some truth.

That’s why I tell all the “how can I get a CA job because I have ties there?” to think of those ties can come and visit you in a less expensive place….or on the vacation my colleague apparently isn’t able to go one because he’s paying for his house.

"Live where others vacation" they said

 

[Twiggidy]

"Live where others vacation" they said

The problem is now I want to be somewhere where it rains more that 2 weeks out of the entire year.

 

[kidthor]

The good groups that usually only hire 1 or 2 people per year (and even none in some other years), are looking for 4-6 people.

As noted above, ASMG is interviewing anyone with a pulse who submits a CV without red flags. They are somewhat unique in feeling understaffed from two aspects: a growing need for new coverage and a lot of older partners retiring.

Kaiser and the UCs continue to build satellite facilities around every town.

It’s more than just a warm market at the moment. It’s probably as hot as it’s ever been.

As someone actively looking I'm just not seeing that level of interest from employers in socal - lots of flakey responses to whether they're hiring and nobody seems particularly interested. Maybe the market is hot for socal, but lukewarm for the rest of the country?

 

[blackbolt]

TBH there's really only 3 great so cal jobs (as you can see from the other LA/OC thread) if you want to be compensated (somewhat) fairly and have a (somewhat) decent lifestyle

- Mission
- Hoag
- ASMG

Anyone can apply for ASMG but they like and usually hire top program talent.
Hoag almost exclusively recruits the chiefs and cardiac trained people from UCLA or UCSD. I'm sure they have enough alumni from Stanford or UCSF to also get considered. Fellowship in CA also helps. It is extremely word of mouth to get your CV in the door.
Mission won't respond to CVs unless brought directly by someone working there. You can also see where all their recent hires are from.
Desirable Kaisers will consider anyone willing to put in their time being per diem until an associate position opens up which then is a certain amount of years to "partner" or whatever term they use. But you better hope you don't make any enemies along the way and offer all those who control your fate a bunch of breaks and block their patients and write their pre-op notes.

Anyone have yearly income ranges for those places? Average hours per week and amount of vacation?

 

[lakersbaby]

I graduated from UCLA in 2020 and am part of ACCMG in SD. It is true everyone is hiring very actively in SD including us, ASMG, and Kaiser. Practices change even though the old rumors still circulate locally. We recently signed a large contract with our hospital group which now subsidizes the group, but we pretty much remain independent status with regards to running the group and are still 1099 employees. Our unit value and call stipends have increased significantly and are very competitive for SoCal.

How much more on that unit value? I remember hearing it was dismal back not too long ago like $20s. I may be talking out of my butt tho this is just hearsay.

 

[DrOwnage]

Not at liberty to say the exact unit value. Our unit value has never been in the 20s. It’s competitive for California and most likely better than anything you will find in LA.

 

[rakotomazoto]

Graduated from UCLA a few years ago, ended up in private practice after interviewing around SoCal. My personal experience was that I had people from the private practices contacting me directly after they got my name/info from some of the UCLA attendings. There is a real pipeline effect that others have mentioned. However; I have partners who cold-called from "prestigious" East Coast programs and got lucky with their timing. So if you are one of those (un)lucky ones who simply must be in California, my advice based on how it played out for me is to train at the best program that you can get into in California and then be an amazing resident from the perspective of your attendings. This puts you in the best position to network your way into the best possible job. But that's just my two cents, based on my N=1.

We tend to look at those pipeline applicants as a known commodity since we personally know their attendings (our former co-residents) and we value their opinion more than the fact that you got into Haaavard. Plus, since CA is so expensive, there is a known cohort of people from elsewhere who come here for a few years and then burn out on the cost of living and return to the frozen tundra from which they emerged. Someone who has been living in California is more likely to stay, or so the thinking goes. So internally, we seem to favor the graduates of reputable CA programs over people from the East Coast no matter how prestigious their academic pedigree is.

We are not hiring currently so it doesn't seem like our corner of the market is as hot as others have mentioned. We are definitely concerned about the rising costs of housing and how that will impact recruitment. It's always been the Achilles heel to recruit people here, but it is getting straight-up ridiculous. I am trying to convince my partners to convert our business model into an anesthesiology/real estate investment hybrid where we flip houses when we're not slinging propofol in the OR. There's only so much land on the coast, demand only seems to go in one direction.

 

[kidthor]

I am trying to convince my partners to convert our business model into an anesthesiology/real estate investment hybrid where we flip houses when we're not slinging propofol in the OR.

I love this idea but be sure to keep the ownership structure separate, otherwise those real estate assets will be targets if the partnership dissolves or is bought, or you’re sued for anything!

 

[Twiggidy]

It’s usually around tax time (current) and fire season (soon) when everyone in CA suddenly gets ambitious to bounce from the state and then a hurricane strikes, a tornado hits the Midwest, or an early Nor’easter comes on the East coast and people get second thoughts lol