Another CS Failure Thread

[Step 2 F-up]

I'm aware of the rules regarding sock puppeting - this is a throwaway for specific anonymity reasons, and will only be used for this thread. I didn’t post in the confidential forum due to super low traffic.

US MD from an established school, applied psych with Step scores at the means for psych based on 2016 Charting the Outcomes and no red flags. Failed CS. 100% my fault, knew I failed leaving the exam and why, and know I will pass the retake. Because of this I will have to go through SOAP based on when programs want CS scores, and I’m not banking on SOAPing into a psych spot based on the number of available positions last year, and number of applicants this year. 2 questions - If I SOAP into a TY or IM prelim spot and reapply psych, how much is a CS failure going to hurt me? Should I just bank on trying to SOAP into a categorical IM spot and make the best of it?

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[Trollest]

Step 2 CS? or 1? Also are you saying that psychiatry is more competitve than IM? Sorry, i undertsand that i am not answering your question but just wanted to get a clear undertsanding.

Thanks
Also a pre-med, so know nothing

 

[Step 2 F-up]

Step 2 CS? or 1? Also are you saying that psychiatry is more competitve than IM? Sorry, i undertsand that i am not answering your question but just wanted to get a clear undertsanding.

Thanks
Also a pre-med, so know nothing

2 CS. Psych has been surprisingly much more competitive this year. There are more IM spots than Psych, and I have significantly greater odds of SOAPing into IM than Psych.

 

[Redpancreas]

I'm aware of the rules regarding sock puppeting - this is a throwaway for specific anonymity reasons, and will only be used for this thread. I didn’t post in the confidential forum due to super low traffic.

US MD from an established school, applied psych with Step scores at the means for psych based on 2016 Charting the Outcomes and no red flags. Failed CS. 100% my fault, knew I failed leaving the exam and why, and know I will pass the retake. Because of this I will have to go through SOAP based on when programs want CS scores, and I’m not banking on SOAPing into a psych spot based on the number of available positions last year, and number of applicants this year. 2 questions - should I just plan on aiming to SOAP into an IM spot at this point? If I SOAP into a TY or IM prelim spot and reapply psych, how much is a CS failure going to hurt me?

Now that we got you here can you tell us what you knew you did wrong? I'm terrified of the same. As for what it's going to do, just send letters to programs and let them know of the Steps you're going to take. Also, if you can find a December 30th/31st date in Philly now, you can still have a score by rank order deadline. Download the Firefox extension (or google how to do it) and use it to find a date.

 

[Step 2 F-up]

Now that we got you here can you tell us what you knew you did wrong? I'm terrified of the same. As for what it's going to do, just send letters to programs and let them know of the Steps you're going to take. Also, if you can find a December 30th/31st date in Philly now, you can still have a score by rank order deadline. Download the Firefox extension (or google how to do it) and use it to find a date.

Couldn’t register until the end of August (the delay in being able to register for Step 2 was for a LOA that wasn't for academic or health reasons) and the soonest date available at the time was in the Jan 31 - Feb 28 score reporting window —> date opened-up during the last week of the Dec - Jan reporting window grabbed it that week and literally went into it cold (1 day to prep and just took CK the day prior; also several of my top choices had a Feb. 1 cutoff for CS scores to be ranked which is why I risked it). Have actually prepped since and am hoping for an opening this week, but not holding my breath. My ICE score was garbage which was 99% time management issues - didn’t really finish a single patient encounter or note.

 

[christmasindr]

Failing Step 2 CS does not automatically make you disqualified for the match. Even programs that ask for a passing score prior to rank list deadline can be understanding to your situation if you communicate well. Just retake ASAP and work with your own institution for solutions.

 

[Redpancreas]

Failing Step 2 CS does not automatically make you disqualified for the match. Even programs that ask for a passing score prior to rank list deadline can be understanding to your situation if you communicate well. Just retake ASAP and work with your own institution for solutions.

You can only hope this is a possibility OP. Have faith in this hard time and have faith in finding in a date and stay ready. Also, I think you're not doing your best to find dates. Someone I know failed less than a week ago and was able to secure a December 30th date. I registered in August and found dates in November. The availability is in constant flux.

 

[Step 2 F-up]

You can only hope this is a possibility OP. Have faith in this hard time and have faith in finding in a date and stay ready. Also, I think you're not doing your best to find dates. Someone I know failed less than a week ago and was able to secure a December 30th date. I registered in August and found dates in November. The availability is in constant flux.

Got my score this week and immediately talked with admin to expidite the registration process to snag the earliest date availabile. I signed-up for date opening notifications at all sites, and did the same last time I registered and jumped on openings that were manageable with my AI schedule and also taking CK - no idea how I’m not “trying my best” or what more I can do to find open dates. Also, in my experience the date openings go within seconds, and if you aren't at a computer when the e-mail comes, or can't get to one REALLY quick your SOL. I realize that at this point I’m going to have to SOAP and I’m just trying to be as prepared as possible moving forward.

 

[Redpancreas]

Got my score this week and immediately talked with admin to expidite the registration process to snag the earliest date availabile. I signed-up for date opening notifications at all sites, and did the same last time I registered and jumped on openings that were manageable with my AI schedule and also taking CK - no idea how I’m not “trying my best” or what more I can do to find open dates. I realize that at this point I’m going to have to SOAP and I’m just trying to be as prepared as possible moving forward.

Have faith and stay ready.

 

[christmasindr]

Got my score this week and immediately talked with admin to expidite the registration process to snag the earliest date availabile. I signed-up for date opening notifications at all sites, and did the same last time I registered and jumped on openings that were manageable with my AI schedule and also taking CK - no idea how I’m not “trying my best” or what more I can do to find open dates. I realize that at this point I’m going to have to SOAP and I’m just trying to be as prepared as possible moving forward.

What makes you think you have to SOAP? As I stated before, it is not necessarily the case, so it is not helpful to have that mindset. Keep finding date and communicate with the programs.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Remember that you only need to tell programs about your CS failure if they ask for it.

 

[Step 2 F-up]

What makes you think you have to SOAP? As I stated before, it is not necessarily the case, so it is not helpful to have that mindset. Keep finding date and communicate with the programs.

I realize I could still match without SOAPing, however the odds are largely against that with the policies regarding CS scores where I’ve interviewed, and I only had <5 interviews. I’ve been in contact with all of those programs and some with CS score deadlines earlier than 2/28 said they’d be understanding as long as I update them with a score by 2/28, however I would need to get a test date this week to fall into that score reporting window. Obviously I’ll hope for the best, but realistically my odds of SOAPing are currently greater than my odds of matching without SOAP.

Remember that you only need to tell programs about your CS failure if they ask for it.

I guess I’m more concerned with how damning a CS failure will be, even if it’s only one, if I SOAPed into a TY or prelim spot and reapplied psych v. just trying to get a categorical spot and calling it good.

 

[rokshana]

Got my score this week and immediately talked with admin to expidite the registration process to snag the earliest date availabile. I signed-up for date opening notifications at all sites, and did the same last time I registered and jumped on openings that were manageable with my AI schedule and also taking CK - no idea how I’m not “trying my best” or what more I can do to find open dates. I realize that at this point I’m going to have to SOAP and I’m just trying to be as prepared as possible moving forward.

wait, you haven't taken CK and failed CS?

while for an AMG, these exams are nor necessary for interviews and participating in the match, you are probably behind the 8 ball so can see why you should prepare for SOAP...the other would be to delay graduation and reapply to next years match...that would give you the time to get your ducks in a row and be a better applicant.

 

[Step 2 F-up]

wait, you haven't taken CK and failed CS?

while for an AMG, these exams are nor necessary for interviews and participating in the match, you are probably behind the 8 ball so can see why you should prepare for SOAP...the other would be to delay graduation and reapply to next years match...that would give you the time to get your ducks in a row and be a better applicant.

Took CK in Oct. and scored around the mean and took CS shortly after when a date in an earlier reporting window opened-up so I could meet the CS deadlines for several programs I applied to. My school will only delay graduation for significant illness or personal issues, and doesn’t offer the option of taking a research year, which it’s too late to even consider at this point.

 

[Step 2 F-up]

Bump/update:

So I contacted all of the programs where I interviewed/ranked and let them know that my CS score wouldn't be available until after match and approximately when my score should be available; I didn't say anything about the failure. 1 confirmed that I would not be ranked (I ranked them regardless), and the rest all gave responses along the lines of, "Thank you for letting us know. We aren't sure how this will impact your ranking at our program." Only 1 program did not give a specific date as to when CS scores had to be available in order to be ranked.

I submitted my ROL, and maybe I'll match, but am still banking on having to SOAP. My plan is still to apply to psych, TY, and prelim IM spots (Idk if its worth applying to categorical IM spots if I'm planning to reapply this fall).

1 - For TY spots am I good with just using my psych PS and LORs?
2 - For prelim IM spots I'm assuming I should write an IM PS, should I also work on getting LORs that are geared more towards IM or would I be fine with my psych ones (their content talks about my clinical skills, interpersonal skills, and work ethic but emphasize why I'm a good fit for psych)?

Edit:

Does comparing quota to match from the 2017 Match Data reflect what positions were available in SOAP last year? If so, that's pretty disheartening seeing how few IM prelim and TY spots were available. Should I consider prelim Surg spots and categorical IM?

 

[TennisShoeChic]

I don't have any useful advice about IM or Surg because I'm Fam Med, but I wanted to share my unique two cents. I started PGY-1 year in Fam Med and had to leave near the end of the year for anxiety/burnout issues. After re-grouping and passing Step 3, I thought I'd easily be able to drop into an open PGY-1 spot after the mandatory 45 day window- so Aug, Sept, Oct...certainly before the New Year.

...Never happened. While there were a handful of PGY-2 positions I wasn't qualified for, openings for PGY-1 were VERY few and far between (for Fam Med at least). I ended up going through this whole darn matching process again and now I'm sweating bullets as Match Day approaches. Some figures of interest:

95% of US seniors match. That number jumps to 98% after SOAP. But senior is the key word there. As an independent applicant (aka anyone not a 4th year) the match rate for US allopathic graduates is 45%. Thems....really REALLY not good odds.

Any type of red flag (testing failures, having to re-take a certain rotation, taking time off, re-applying) is a HUGE detriment when getting a residency position. The first time around I applied to about 40 programs and had to turn down many "extra" interviews. This time around, I applied to over 100 programs and only received a handful of interviews for *Fam Med*. I wish now I had applied to even more programs, but as you can imagine, being off residency with no steady income strains your budget.

And of course, the ability to secure a residency is multifaceted- it will certainly depend on your personal statement, testing scores, past extracurriculars, and your ability to interview (I'm pretty middle of the road in all these things btw- no failures, no retakes). But I'm facing a very real possibility of not matching this year, and it's absolutely horrifying.

My two cents is that if you are offered a position in SOAP, take it. Take it take it take it. I can't advise you what field is best, but just imagine for a moment, having to spend thousands of dollars re-applying next year, going on interviews all over the country (because you can't be geographically picky), and then not matching. Again. You had an MD and you are unable to use it without residency. You have to find another career with non-clinical work. It's a horrifying and very real possibility, if you are a re-applicant with a red flag, like a CS failure.

I wish you the very best of luck in SOAP!

 

[Step 2 F-up]

I don't have any useful advice about IM or Surg because I'm Fam Med, but I wanted to share my unique two cents. I started PGY-1 year in Fam Med and had to leave near the end of the year for anxiety/burnout issues. After re-grouping and passing Step 3, I thought I'd easily be able to drop into an open PGY-1 spot after the mandatory 45 day window- so Aug, Sept, Oct...certainly before the New Year.

...Never happened. While there were a handful of PGY-2 positions I wasn't qualified for, openings for PGY-1 were VERY few and far between (for Fam Med at least). I ended up going through this whole darn matching process again and now I'm sweating bullets as Match Day approaches. Some figures of interest:

95% of US seniors match. That number jumps to 98% after SOAP. But senior is the key word there. As an independent applicant (aka anyone not a 4th year) the match rate for US allopathic graduates is 45%. Thems....really REALLY not good odds.

Any type of red flag (testing failures, having to re-take a certain rotation, taking time off, re-applying) is a HUGE detriment when getting a residency position. The first time around I applied to about 40 programs and had to turn down many "extra" interviews. This time around, I applied to over 100 programs and only received a handful of interviews for *Fam Med*. I wish now I had applied to even more programs, but as you can imagine, being off residency with no steady income strains your budget.

And of course, the ability to secure a residency is multifaceted- it will certainly depend on your personal statement, testing scores, past extracurriculars, and your ability to interview (I'm pretty middle of the road in all these things btw- no failures, no retakes). But I'm facing a very real possibility of not matching this year, and it's absolutely horrifying.

My two cents is that if you are offered a position in SOAP, take it. Take it take it take it. I can't advise you what field is best, but just imagine for a moment, having to spend thousands of dollars re-applying next year, going on interviews all over the country (because you can't be geographically picky), and then not matching. Again. You had an MD and you are unable to use it without residency. You have to find another career with non-clinical work. It's a horrifying and very real possibility, if you are a re-applicant with a red flag, like a CS failure.

I wish you the very best of luck in SOAP!

That's why I'm hoping for a TY or Prelim IM spot so there's no gap in education, and I don't want to get on the bad side of a PD for taking a categorical spot and then telling them right away in July, "JK. I'm actually planning on reapplying to a different specialty. Sorry for lying to you - can you still write a strong LOR for me?" I also started to study for Step 3 and am planning on taking it before ERAS opens for 2018, hopefully in June, and have gotten some stronger (in my opinion) LORs. No one that I've talked with seems to have any advice or input, so I guess I'll just fly by the seat of my pants, hope for the best, and hopefully the CS failure won't be too damning. And again, because it has come up multiple times despite being explained several times above, the late Step 2 registration was out of my control. My school would not let me register for Step 2 dates until I finished my last 3rd year rotation, which was pushed back for a LOA that wasn't for academic, health, or mental health reasons. I guess I could have tried to be pushier with admin over it, but its too late now.

 

[rrxr]

I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Sounds like you were really screwed over by a combination of BS from your school and BS from CS. It's not your fault, it's theirs!!

I can't comment on what you should apply or accept in SOAP, but I want to warn you not to count on being able to grab a TY or prelim med spot. This seems to be a common plan B on SDN, especially among IMGs, but TYs and prelim med are really not a safe plan B as they are the plan A of many strong candidates who are going into advanced specialties. The number of TYs goes down every year, so people who 5 or 10 years ago would have done a TY are now doing prelim medicine and putting a squeeze on those spots. It's actually quite competitive. Even radiology PDs have been warning us not to take prelims lightly. At one brand name institution, the PD implied that multiple people in recent years had to SOAP for prelims. My interview yield for prelims was lower than radiology, and this was by no means unusual. The match 2017 data is, sadly, reflective of the competitiveness of medicine prelims.

It sounds like your school is full of dicks so maybe this will not work, but I have heard of schools creating and funding prelim spots for their students who don't match. Maybe this is unlikely but you don't have anything to lose.

Fingers crossed you match and this is all moot!!

 

[IM2GI]

That's why I'm hoping for a TY or Prelim IM spot so there's no gap in education, and I don't want to get on the bad side of a PD for taking a categorical spot and then telling them right away in July, "JK. I'm actually planning on reapplying to a different specialty. Sorry for lying to you - can you still write a strong LOR for me?" I also started to study for Step 3 and am planning on taking it before ERAS opens for 2018, hopefully in June, and have gotten some stronger (in my opinion) LORs. No one that I've talked with seems to have any advice or input, so I guess I'll just fly by the seat of my pants, hope for the best, and hopefully the CS failure won't be too damning. And again, because it has come up multiple times despite being explained several times above, the late Step 2 registration was out of my control. My school would not let me register for Step 2 dates until I finished my last 3rd year rotation, which was pushed back for a LOA that wasn't for academic, health, or mental health reasons. I guess I could have tried to be pushier with admin over it, but its too late now.

It is a moot point, but Im not sure how not being able to schedule it influenced your ability to prepare for the test. It is not like you did not know you needed to take it within a certain window. You probably would have been able to pass it if you had spent even a few days passively studying for it. This is more a warning for the next guy reading this thread.

Hope everything works out for you.

 

[Step 2 F-up]

I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Sounds like you were really screwed over by a combination of BS from your school and BS from CS. It's not your fault, it's theirs!!

I can't comment on what you should apply or accept in SOAP, but I want to warn you not to count on being able to grab a TY or prelim med spot. This seems to be a common plan B on SDN, especially among IMGs, but TYs and prelim med are really not a safe plan B as they are the plan A of many strong candidates who are going into advanced specialties. The number of TYs goes down every year, so people who 5 or 10 years ago would have done a TY are now doing prelim medicine and putting a squeeze on those spots. It's actually quite competitive. Even radiology PDs have been warning us not to take prelims lightly. At one brand name institution, the PD implied that multiple people in recent years had to SOAP for prelims. My interview yield for prelims was lower than radiology, and this was by no means unusual. The match 2017 data is, sadly, reflective of the competitiveness of medicine prelims.

It sounds like your school is full of dicks so maybe this will not work, but I have heard of schools creating and funding prelim spots for their students who don't match. Maybe this is unlikely but you don't have anything to lose.

Fingers crossed you match and this is all moot!!

I went through the 2017 Match and SOAP data and saw how few TY and prelim IM spots there were, that's why I'm wondering if I shouldn't just settle for categorical IM or consider prelim surg as well and reapply (the latter I REALLY do not want to do, and honestly doesn't seem like a great idea). Categorical IM wouldn't be the end of the world, as I was going to apply to IM, psych, and IM/psych programs, but decided to just apply psych literally 1-2 days before ERAS opened. I was really unsure of my decision to do that, but as I've gone through my 4th year rotations I genuinely feel that I am a much better fit for psych personality wise, would ultimately be happier, less likely to experience burn-out, and honestly find myself more engaged when studying psych versus IM.

It is a moot point, but Im not sure how not being able to schedule it influenced your ability to prepare for the test. It is not like you did not know you needed to take it within a certain window. You probably would have been able to pass it if you had spent even a few days passively studying for it. This is more a warning for the next guy reading this thread.

Hope everything works out for you.

Not being able to schedule CS didn't impact my ability to prep for CS. I knew it had to be taken in a certain window, but wasn't able to schedule it within that window because dates weren't available when I was finally allowed to register. I registered for opening notifications on earlier dates that I could accommodate with my schedule. Doing my last 3rd year clerkship at the beginning of 4th year cost me the time we're allowed to have off to study for Step 2 and interviews, so I was pretty limited in potential dates, and also meant I got to study for and take CK during my IM sub-I. The evening of the day I took CK I received a notification of a date opening that worked, but was only 2 days out and at the end of the score reporting window I needed. The openings go within seconds of the e-mails being sent, so I very briefly considered the risk of taking it versus actually being prepared but not having a score in time, and ultimately decided to take the gamble. As I mentioned in my initial post, time management is what killed me. Had I had 1-2 days to just get a better flow down I honestly doubt that I'd be in this situation. And while I am very frustrated with my school contributing to this, I 100% own being a doormat when admin said I couldn't schedule until I finished my last clerkship, as well as the gamble I took in trying to get a score in time.