Goro

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How old were you at the time, and how old are you now?


If one were to be arrested for trying to sneak into a music festival, how would that be looked at by an adcom? Obviously it wouldn't help but is something like that a red flag or is it something minor?
 

Goro

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I don't see it as immediately lethal. How you explain it and own it will make or break you.
 
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Halcyon32

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I don't see it as immediately lethal. How you explain it and own it will make or break you.
What would be a good way to explain that? I really wanted to see my all time favorite artist and I was broke :/
I know many adcom members probably don't frequent music festivals but would they be able to put that in the "I was young and stupid once too" box?
 

Goro

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IF you explain it that way, you'll get rejected.

You made this mess for yourself, you figure a way out.

What would be a good way to explain that? I really wanted to see my all time favorite artist and I was broke :/
I know many adcom members probably don't frequent music festivals but would they be able to put that in the "I was young and stupid once too" box?
 

gonnif

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What would be a good way to explain that? I really wanted to see my all time favorite artist and I was broke :/
I know many adcom members probably don't frequent music festivals but would they be able to put that in the "I was young and stupid once too" box?
Young and stupid? actually more like a petulant child who wanted candy even though he couldnt.
 
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Halcyon32

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Tell us the whole story... Maybe we can brainstorm some ideas. Plus I just wanna hear it.
It wasn't as exciting as you may hope. Basically we rushed the entrance and I eventually got tackled by a cop and arrested for trespassing. Didn't help my mood that my friend got in and I got arrested but what can ya do :(
 

ortnakas

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What would be a good way to explain that? I really wanted to see my all time favorite artist and I was broke :/
A for honesty. F for insight.

To get something put in the "young and stupid" box, it has to be something you regret having done and would not do again. You're making an excuse, not an apology.

Edited: to fix spelling/autocorrect error
 
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Halcyon32

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A for honesty. F for insight.

To get something out in the "young and stupid" box, it has to be something you regret having done and would not do again. You're making an excuse, not an apology.
I regret having done it and would not do it again for the reason that I got in trouble and running the risk of getting arrested again is not worth it. Not because of some moral reason because I don't really see it as something that's morally reprehensible.
 

artist27

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I regret having done it and would not do it again for the reason that I got in trouble and running the risk of getting arrested again is not worth it. Not because of some moral reason because I don't really see it as something that's morally reprehensible.
Be sure to mention this exactly at interviews.
 

order66.exe

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Not because of some moral reason because I don't really see it as something that's morally reprehensible.
Its not necessarily the act but the qualities of the act that it demonstrates: impulsiveness, lack of respect for the rule of law, feeling entitled to see the show (despite not having a ticket), thinking being young gives you a right for improper behavior. etc

Just think about what a conservative adcom who has thousands of applicants who have clean records would think. Try to consider the "morality" of your act besides "I am sorry because I was caught".
 

Cawolf

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I regret having done it and would not do it again for the reason that I got in trouble and running the risk of getting arrested again is not worth it. Not because of some moral reason because I don't really see it as something that's morally reprehensible.
If you don't see theft as morally reprehensible, then you have something "off" in your personal worldview. I would at least keep that sentiment to yourself if asked to explain it. . .
 
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Halcyon32

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Its not necessarily the act but the qualities of the act that it demonstrates: impulsiveness, lack of respect for the rule of law, feeling entitled to see the show (despite not having a ticket), thinking being young gives you a right for improper behavior. etc

Just think about what a conservative adcom who has thousands of applicants who have clean records would think. Try to consider the "morality" of your act besides "I am sorry because I was caught".
If you don't see theft as morally reprehensible, then you have something "off" in your personal worldview. I would at least keep that sentiment to yourself if asked to explain it. . .
But none of those things hold true, I didn't sneak in because I felt I was above the law nor that I was entitled to see the show or any of that. But is sneaking into a concert really something to feel guilty about? I wasn't robbing anyone of anything except maybe the space occupied by an average sized human being.
 

liquidsodium

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But none of those things hold true, I didn't sneak in because I felt I was above the law nor that I was entitled to see the show or any of that. But is sneaking into a concert really something to feel guilty about? I wasn't robbing anyone of anything except maybe the space occupied by an average sized human being.
Just because live music isn't a tangible good doesn't mean it isn't capable of being robbed. Your sneaking in is equivalent to stealing a record off the shelf or illegally downloading mp3s -- it takes profit away from the people who worked hard to produce and share that music with you. You should feel guilty.


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Cawolf

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But none of those things hold true, I didn't sneak in because I felt I was above the law nor that I was entitled to see the show or any of that. But is sneaking into a concert really something to feel guilty about? I wasn't robbing anyone of anything except maybe the space occupied by an average sized human being.
That's a personal decision.

I can personally say I would feel guilty, enough that I would not do it. You can rationalize it however you like, but the law (and by extension the majority) have decided that it is an act worth penalizing.

In addition, to me, your action directly says you do feel above the law and entitled. That is why most people would not do it. As I am trying to stay constructive, I would not share your current viewpoint outside of this thread - it will not be received positively.
 
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I think the biggest problem is that the action shows a lack of judgement and maturity. The fact that you rushed the entrance and had to be tackled by a cop particularly highlights these characteristics. There are plenty of "broke" college students who don't try to trespass at a concert.

I'm not an adcom or by any means an expert in med school admissions. However, I think that you will need to take responsibility for your actions and show regret. If possible, maybe take a gap year? This would put more time between the incident and the time when you apply. Meanwhile, get involved in some serious volunteering and activities that show maturity.

You can't change what happened. You're also not the first college kid to do something stupid. However, you do have control over the changes you make in your life and how you move forward.
 

order66.exe

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But none of those things hold true, I didn't sneak in because I felt I was above the law nor that I was entitled to see the show or any of that.
So then why did you rush the gate? I mean there isn't any plausible deniability. You wanted to see the show and thought you weren't going to get caught.
But is sneaking into a concert really something to feel guilty about? I wasn't robbing anyone of anything except maybe the space occupied by an average sized human being.
You tried to steal from the band/concert organizers. I mean lets be real, you didn't commit murder but you weren't stealing a loaf of bread to feed your starving family. Just try to look at it from the adcom's perspective. You were also an adult at the time not some first semester college freshman. Again, there are thousands of applicants without so much as spot on their record.
 

thatwouldbeanarchy

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The bottom line, OP, is that if you want a decent shot of getting into medical school, you need to apologize and acknowledge some wrong-doing on your part, regardless of how you actually feel about what happened.
 
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Goro

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Kiss your medical career goodbye.

I regret having done it and would not do it again for the reason that I got in trouble and running the risk of getting arrested again is not worth it. Not because of some moral reason because I don't really see it as something that's morally reprehensible.
 
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Halcyon32

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Just because live music isn't a tangible good doesn't mean it isn't capable of being robbed. Your sneaking in is equivalent to stealing a record off the shelf or illegally downloading mp3s -- it takes profit away from the people who worked hard to produce and share that music with you. You should feel guilty.


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To be fair, if I didn't sneak in I wouldn't have gone at all so the outcome would have been the same for the artists either way but I do understand what you're saying, it makes total sense. I do feel bad for technically stealing from the artists I wanted to see, despite the fact that I love their work. I hope I've reached a conventional level of moral reasoning ;)

The bottom line, OP, is that if you want a decent shot of getting into medical school, you need to apologize and acknowledge some wrong-doing on your part, regardless of how you actually feel about what happened.
That's a personal decision.

I can personally say I would feel guilty, enough that I would not do it. You can rationalize it however you like, but the law (and by extension the majority) have decided that it is an act worth penalizing.

In addition, to me, your action directly says you do feel above the law and entitled. That is why most people would not do it. As I am trying to stay constructive, I would not share your current viewpoint outside of this thread - it will not be received positively.
However you decide the spin the story (and I'm not going to spoon feed it to you) be sure to not do it in a way you're doing it in this thread.
Ok, I obviously would not be so shortsighted as to present this situation in an interview as I am now. I just wanted to give my unfiltered viewpoint in the hopes that you guys could give me some perspective related to it and enlighten, like what @liquidsodium did.
 
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If one were to be arrested for trying to sneak into a music festival, how would that be looked at by an adcom? Obviously it wouldn't help but is something like that a red flag or is it something minor?
It's not a big deal. If you are asked about it tell them you had a moment of bad judgement, you really regret doing it and that it has been a learning experience for you to use better judgement and not be as impulsive. Use some common sense when explaining what happened. Yeah it's a weakness, but people have gotten in with much worse. We make mistakes, the important thing is that we learn from them.

I'm only replying to provide some contrast to the expected responses of delicate angels proudly riding on their high horse and to give you some positive vibes. You don't have to convince me that you feel guilty for what you did, I know you feel guilty because you posted on here and you're concerned about what kind of consequences your actions will have on a very important application process. Just own up to it and don't try to spin it in a way where you try to convince people it's not a big deal. This is not in any way death to your application and chances. Good luck!
 

Dr. Stalker

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Yo fam what concert was it anyway?
 
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Halcyon32

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It's not a big deal. If you are asked about it tell them you had a moment of bad judgement, you really regret doing it and that it has been a learning experience for you to use better judgement and not be as impulsive. Use some common sense when explaining what happened. Yeah it's a weakness, but people have gotten in with much worse. We make mistakes, the important thing is that we learn from them.

I'm only replying to provide some contrast to the expected responses of delicate angels proudly riding on their high horse and to give you some positive vibes. You don't have to convince me that you feel guilty for what you did, I know you feel guilty because you posted on here and you're concerned about what kind of consequences your actions will have on a very important application process. Just own up to it and don't try to spin it in a way where you try to convince people it's not a big deal. This is not in any way death to your application and chances. Good luck!
Really appreciate you giving me actual advice that isn't mingled with some holier-than-thou attitude! I'm sure I can present it reasonably to an interviewer.

Yo fam what concert was it anyway?
Idk if its a good idea to disclose that
 
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candbgirl

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. . .I'm only replying to provide some contrast to the expected responses of delicate angels proudly riding on their high horse and to give you some positive vibes. You don't have to convince me that you feel guilty for what you did, I know you feel guilty because you posted on here and you're concerned about what kind of consequences your actions will have on a very important application process. Just own up to it and don't try to spin it in a way where you try to convince people it's not a big deal. This is not in any way death to your application and chances. Good luck!
Really? That's what you think? Did you read each of OP's posts?
He doesn't feel guilty. He doesn't even think it is wrong. He's even upset his friend got in and he didn't. OP is posting in hopes someone like you will come along and tell him what he did was perfectly fine and won't affect his chances for II or acceptances. It's fine to be positive but you have provided the one post that he wanted to reinforce his belief that what he did was just fine and all will be well.




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Halcyon32

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Really? That's what you think? Did you read each of OP's posts?
He doesn't feel guilty. He doesn't even think it is wrong. He's even upset his friend got in and he didn't. OP is posting in hopes someone like you will come along and tell him what he did was perfectly fine and won't affect his chances for II or acceptances. It's fine to be positive but you have provided the one post that he wanted to reinforce his belief that what he did was just fine and all will be well.




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Actually I was looking for that one post that answered my simple question: how will it be viewed by an adcom. Which Goro answered. Thread should have stopped there but if people wanna post their 2 cents, who am I to stop them, even if their tone is unfriendly and vindictive on occasion. And he didn't reinforce anything; do you think I'm going to go to an interview and be like "No, it's ok I didn't do anything bad, Meeehai said so"?
 
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It all depends on how well you demonstrate that you regret your actions, and learned from the mistake.

Time off can help provide a foundation for your "I am now mature" argument.
 
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And he didn't reinforce anything; do you think I'm going to go to an interview and be like "No, it's ok I didn't do anything bad, Meeehai said so"?
"Oh, you know THE Meeehai? Forget the rest of the interview, you're in!"

Really? That's what you think? Did you read each of OP's posts?
He doesn't feel guilty. He doesn't even think it is wrong. He's even upset his friend got in and he didn't. OP is posting in hopes someone like you will come along and tell him what he did was perfectly fine and won't affect his chances for II or acceptances. It's fine to be positive but you have provided the one post that he wanted to reinforce his belief that what he did was just fine and all will be well.




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He does feel guilty though, he's worried what he did will impact his chances and wants to believe what he did was not a big deal. Which is why I told him to own up to his mistake and present his situation in a way that demonstrates that he has learned from this experience. The only difference in what I said was that I didn't judge his moral character or try to make him feel bad. I like to encourage people to achieve their goals despite the obstacles they face. What upsets me is that the norm on this board seems to be to discourage people, make them feel terrible and exaggerate their weaknesses to a degree where it might seem pointless to apply in the first place. At the end of the day he will have to go into that interview enthusiastic, with a smile on his face and talk about why he wants to be a doctor and what excites him about pursuing this path - not depressed and hopeless because some anonymous people told him hes a scumbag.
 

Astra

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"Oh, you know THE Meeehai? Forget the rest of the interview, you're in!"



He does feel guilty though, he's worried what he did will impact his chances and wants to believe what he did was not a big deal. Which is why I told him to own up to his mistake and present his situation in a way that demonstrates that he has learned from this experience. The only difference in what I said was that I didn't judge his moral character or try to make him feel bad. I like to encourage people to achieve their goals despite the obstacles they face. What upsets me is that the norm on this board seems to be to discourage people, make them feel terrible and exaggerate their weaknesses to a degree where it might seem pointless to apply in the first place. At the end of the day he will have to go into that interview enthusiastic, with a smile on his face and talk about why he wants to be a doctor and what excites him about pursuing this path - not depressed and hopeless because some anonymous people told him hes a scumbag.

Being worried about how it will impact his chances is NOT being guilty. It's simply covering himself cause he got in trouble.

You think a criminal is feeling guilty when he is worried about his jail sentence?
 
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Goro

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OP has outed himself on a website that Admissions deans DO pay attention to. The transgression is a memorable one; not the typical pot possession, DUI or alcohol in the dorm room scenario. Hence my comment earlier.
 
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Being worried about how it will impact his chances is NOT being guilty. It's simply covering his ass cause he got in trouble.

You think a criminal is feeling guilty when he is worried about his jail sentence?
A criminal and a premed student have vastly different mindsets. How he feels about it is beside the point anyway, what's important is how he presents his regret and acknowledges it as a learning experience. Like I said, he wanted advice to maximize his chances of acceptance not to be judged about his personal feelings. Candidates have to present themselves in a way to appeal to admission committees, not spill their deep personal beliefs and worldviews.

OP has outed himself on a website that Admissions deans DO pay attention to. The transgression is a memorable one; not the typical pot possession, DUI or alcohol in the dorm room scenario. Hence my comment earlier.
Well, I guess that's a whole different problem.
 

Astra

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A criminal and a premed student have vastly different mindsets. How he feels about it is beside the point anyway, what's important is how he presents his regret and acknowledges it as a learning experience. Like I said, he wanted advice to maximize his chances of acceptance not to be judged about his personal feelings. Candidates have to present themselves in a way to appeal to admission committees, not spill their deep personal beliefs and worldviews.



Well, I guess that's a whole different problem.
Show me where OP feels guilty. I have yet to see it. All I see is an entitled child who acted immaturely and shows no regret except that he/she got caught.
 

candbgirl

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What would be a good way to explain that? I really wanted to see my all time favorite artist and I was broke :/
I know many adcom members probably don't frequent music festivals but would they be able to put that in the "I was young and stupid once too" box?
It wasn't as exciting as you may hope. Basically we rushed the entrance and I eventually got tackled by a cop and arrested for trespassing. Didn't help my mood that my friend got in and I got arrested but what can ya do :(
I regret having done it and would not do it again for the reason that I got in trouble and running the risk of getting arrested again is not worth it. Not because of some moral reason because I don't really see it as something that's morally reprehensible.
But none of those things hold true, I didn't sneak in because I felt I was above the law nor that I was entitled to see the show or any of that. But is sneaking into a concert really something to feel guilty about? I wasn't robbing anyone of anything except maybe the space occupied by an average sized human being.

From the quoted posts where does OP say he feels guilty or remorseful? He's only regretful he got caught. He actually says " is sneaking into a concert really anything to feel guilty about?" Feeling regertful=/=feeling guilty!




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Lawper

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Really? That's what you think? Did you read each of OP's posts?
He doesn't feel guilty. He doesn't even think it is wrong. He's even upset his friend got in and he didn't. OP is posting in hopes someone like you will come along and tell him what he did was perfectly fine and won't affect his chances for II or acceptances. It's fine to be positive but you have provided the one post that he wanted to reinforce his belief that what he did was just fine and all will be well.




Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app
From the quoted posts where does OP say he feels guilty or remorseful? He's only regretful he got caught. He actually says " is sneaking into a concert really anything to feel guilty about?" Feeling regertful=/=feeling guilty!




Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
Yeah exactly. OP's basically upset that he got caught. The lack of guilt for the crime he committed is pretty disturbing, and @Goro gave a pretty damning verdict for valid reasons. Sorry OP.
 
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Show me where OP feels guilty. I have yet to see it. All I see is an entitled child who acted immaturely and shows no regret except that he/she got caught.
From the quoted posts where does OP say he feels guilty or remorseful? He's only regretful he got caught. He actually says " is sneaking into a concert really anything to feel guilty about?" Feeling regertful=/=feeling guilty!




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Ok, I was wrong, he doesn't feel guilty. Refer to my previous post where I say it doesn't matter how he feels.
 

xffan624

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I think the biggest problem is that the action shows a lack of judgement and maturity. The fact that you rushed the entrance and had to be tackled by a cop particularly highlights these characteristics. There are plenty of "broke" college students who don't try to trespass at a concert.

I'm not an adcom or by any means an expert in med school admissions. However, I think that you will need to take responsibility for your actions and show regret. If possible, maybe take a gap year? This would put more time between the incident and the time when you apply. Meanwhile, get involved in some serious volunteering and activities that show maturity.

You can't change what happened. You're also not the first college kid to do something stupid. However, you do have control over the changes you make in your life and how you move forward.
This.

Rushing an entrance is not a benign activity. What if the police officer had been injured tackling you/chasing you or during your friends rushing the entrance? You put him/her at risk by your activities in addition to attempting to steal from the artists you purport to respect. That is what you should feel most guilty about, OP.
 
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Halcyon32

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Really? That's what you think? Did you read each of OP's posts?
He doesn't feel guilty. He doesn't even think it is wrong. He's even upset his friend got in and he didn't. OP is posting in hopes someone like you will come along and tell him what he did was perfectly fine and won't affect his chances for II or acceptances. It's fine to be positive but you have provided the one post that he wanted to reinforce his belief that what he did was just fine and all will be well.




Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app
Being worried about how it will impact his chances is NOT being guilty. It's simply covering his ass cause he got in trouble.

You think a criminal is feeling guilty when he is worried about his jail sentence?
Show me where OP feels guilty. I have yet to see it. All I see is an entitled child who acted immaturely and shows no regret except that he/she got caught.
From the quoted posts where does OP say he feels guilty or remorseful? He's only regretful he got caught. He actually says " is sneaking into a concert really anything to feel guilty about?" Feeling regertful=/=feeling guilty!




Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
Yeah exactly. OP's basically upset that he got caught. The lack of guilt for the crime he committed is pretty disturbing, and @Goro gave a pretty damning verdict for valid reasons. Sorry OP.
Maybe the part where I said:
I do feel bad for technically stealing from the artists I wanted to see, despite the fact that I love their work.
demonstrates my actual guilt. But nah let's ignore that little bit since then you wouldn't be able to rush to judge a complete stranger on the internet! Nope can't have that.

OP has outed himself on a website that Admissions deans DO pay attention to. The transgression is a memorable one; not the typical pot possession, DUI or alcohol in the dorm room scenario. Hence my comment earlier.
How exactly have I outed myself?
 

JustAPhD

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Perhaps the most half-sincere guilt I've seen. Using "technically steal" and then following it up with how you love their work, like that remedies you rushing the gate. You're getting lectured by people not necessarily for your questionable judgement but because of how you are coming across in your subsequent posts.

Anyways, you'll never know if this is an app killer until you apply. Maybe it'll work out for you, maybe not. If you have an unsuccessful cycle you might want to think about delaying your app for a few years to put time between your incident and your application.


Edit: (because I don't feel like bumping this thread). Clearly this thread has run its course. As Goro said, this is a pretty unique blemish on your app; one that may be remembered by any adcom members/deans who look at SDN. Honestly, this thread does not cast you in a great light, so I recommend you delete it. Best of luck.
 
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sparklingwater

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To OP: I'll try to give some actual advice

Best Case Scenario:
If you haven't already, contact a lawyer and try to get it expunged (many states allow you to apply for expungement for minor charges like shoplifting after 1 year since the incident).

As per AAMC rules, you don't have to report expunged misdemeanours and felonies. If you were merely arrested but not charged, you will not have to list it on AMCAS (as far as I remember, they only ask about misdemeanours and felonies).
 
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Halcyon32

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Perhaps the most half-sincere guilt I've seen. Using "technically steal" and then following it up with how you love their work, like that remedies you rushing the gate. You're getting lectured by people not necessarily for your questionable judgement but because of how you are coming across in your subsequent posts.

Anyways, you'll never know if this is an app killer until you apply. Maybe it'll work out for you, maybe not. If you have an unsuccessful cycle you might want to think about delaying your app for a few years to put time between your incident and your application.
Me saying I love their work is completely irrelevant to me trying to "remedy" my actions. Mainly because that's not what I was trying to do. I was simply trying to express the fact that I DO feel guilty BECAUSE I stole, technically or otherwise, from a group of artists that I respect and that have given me great entertainment. It's incredible how much you're trying to stretch what I say out of context just to prove your point.
 

liquidsodium

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Me saying I love their work is completely irrelevant to me trying to "remedy" my actions. Mainly because that's not what I was trying to do. I was simply trying to express the fact that I DO feel guilty BECAUSE I stole, technically or otherwise, from a group of artists that I respect and that have given me great entertainment. It's incredible how much you're trying to stretch what I say out of context just to prove your point.
Would you feel less guilty stealing from a group of artists you liked less?


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Medical Student (Accepted)
You said you were arrested for trespassing, not stealing music. As stated before, you need to acknowledge that "rushing" the entrance was a mistake. It shows impulsivenss and immaturity. To be honest, I keep getting the image of a blitzing linebacker from the way you describe it. The question you'll have to answer is, "How have you matured and what have you learned from this mistake." Trying to rationalize it won't get you very far.
 
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