California Northstate gains Accreditation

[Gandyy]

I'm obviously not very informed about the differences between a for profit medical school and one that is a not for profit medical school.

What are the pros and cons of each besides the obvious "for profit vs not for profit"

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[nRomaleos]

I'm obviously not very informed about the differences between a for profit medical school and one that is a not for profit medical school.
What are the pros and cons of each besides the obvious "for profit vs not for profit"

I am not so sure it has anything to with for profit vs non for profit for this school.
The problem is that their presentation and current curriculum looks horrendous. The clinical rotations are at best comparable to a low-tier DO school. A significant % of the faculty received their medical education outside the U.S. No government-sponsored financial aid.

These are just all red-flags for a potentially poor educational/training experience.

 

[Gandyy]

I am not so sure it has anything to with for profit vs non for profit for this school.
The problem is that their presentation and current curriculum looks horrendous. The clinical rotations are at best comparable to a low-tier DO school. A significant % of the faculty received their medical education outside the U.S. No government-sponsored financial aid.

These are just all red-flags for a potentially poor educational/training experience.

I see. Yea that sounds horrendous.

 

[ERK123]

That's assuming that reinvesting in research, facilities, etc is against their own self-interest somehow, when it clearly isn't.
No to go all capitalist on yah, but businesses usually do reinvest in themselves; the ones that stay in business in a competitive market, that is.
(This isn't an invitation to debate capitalism, just pointing something out)

So no, I don't think that Northstate is going to swindle all that tuition money; they are fighting an uphill battle in terms of respect and prestige, which directly affect their business prospects, if nothing else. You can't really compare Northstate to some dinky for-profit diploma mill because their respective competition is quite different, and Northstate's likelihood of success will be dependent on their residency placements, which will be dependent, at least in part, on their reputation and ability to competently deliver education and training.

The problem with your comment is that medical schools do not exist in a competitive environment to attract students if all they care about is filling a tuition paying class year after year.

Northstate needs to only reinvest enough money to attract enough students to fill their class. I highly doubt they will have any trouble as a US medical school even if their education is subpar. As long as they place their students somewhere I do not see why they will have trouble attracting students when a school like SGU can attract a class of 1000 students every year.

Why is medical education even a commodity in the first place? I entirely blame for-profit DO schools like Rocky Vista for contributing to this problem.

Until this year Rocky Vista was the only for-profit DO school. Now there are two for-profit DO schools and one for-profit MD school. Someone needs to stop this.

 

[keevwu]

.

 

[hoihaie]

Just for reference, I spoke with my friend who attends CNSU's pharmacy program. The program has been running for 9-10 years with constant tuition hikes. Also, they continue to say that they are applying to get federal aid for their students, but after 9-10 years, still no federal aid.

9 - 10 years?

I thought they just started the school a few years ago around 2008?

 

[allantois]

The school should be applauded for going through LCME accreditation process. They could have easily applied through COCA and be close to graduating their first class soon if that was the case. We should not pass premature judgements on this decision by LCME, which has never been found guilty of low/questionable accreditation standarts.

 

[keevwu]

.

 

[Verbatim Disk]

I am not so sure it has anything to with for profit vs non for profit for this school.
The problem is that their presentation and current curriculum looks horrendous. The clinical rotations are at best comparable to a low-tier DO school. A significant % of the faculty received their medical education outside the U.S. No government-sponsored financial aid.

These are just all red-flags for a potentially poor educational/training experience.

Any idea/guess on how that compares to other recently opened programs? Like how was Netter viewed back when it just opened? Seems like a pretty respectable place now.

 

[nRomaleos]

Any idea/guess on how that compares to other recently opened programs? Like how was Netter viewed back when it just opened? Seems like a pretty respectable place now.

This I can't comment on as I have only been looking to curriculum for the last year or so. This is my observation from 2014-2015.

However, maybe someone who applied/matriculated 3-5 years ago might be able to answer this question. I am curious as well.

 

[bear2roo]

Out of curiosity, Between this school and Caribbean auc/Ross/Sgu, what would you think is the better option?

 

[Lawpy]

Out of curiosity, Between this school and Caribbean auc/Ross/Sgu, what would you think is the better option?

Neither. If left with no option, reapply to legitimate schools.

 

[unnumzaan]

Neither. If left with no option, reapply to legitimate schools.

You don't think LCME accreditation is any measure of legitimacy? From what I understand, it is a fairly rigorous process. Northstate must be doing somethings right. Personally I would definitely go here over Carribbean Big3 based on current knowledge.

 

[Lawpy]

You don't think LCME accreditation is any measure of legitimacy? From what I understand, it is a fairly rigorous process. Northstate must be doing somethings right. Personally I would definitely go here over Carribbean Big3 based on current knowledge.

Honestly, I think Northstate won't survive even though it somehow bypassed the LCME accreditation. Simply put, it is incredibly risky to pursue a medical education at a for-profit medical school, so I will rather play safe and reapply to a truly legitimate US nonprofit medical school.

 

[acapnial]

Honestly, I think Northstate won't survive even though it somehow bypassed the LCME accreditation. Simply put, it is incredibly risky to pursue a medical education at a for-profit medical school, so I will rather play safe and reapply to a truly legitimate US nonprofit medical school.

It didn't bypass LCME accreditation. It received preliminary accreditation from the LCME.

 

[unnumzaan]

On an unrelated note,

Research! ...in an empty lab.

 

[mats7]

Aw, chill on the pictures. They're probably stock. The buildings look nice and new, at least.

 

[NeuResurgens]

On an unrelated note,

Research! ...in an empty lab.

I always put on my nicest suit when I go to examine specimens in the lab.

 

[JubalHarshaw]

On an unrelated note,

Research! ...in an empty lab.

This looks a lot like the research being conducted at Prestige Worldwide.

 

[charmiedermie]

The first suggested article under the post: "Northstate medical school dean resigns"

First paragraph:

"Dr. Robert Suskind, dean at California Northstate University College of Medicine, resigned Monday to work on another medical school start up in Southern California."

His current one barely got off the ground and he's already going to do another? This guy's going to start a franchise.

Their pharmacy dean also resigned according to one of the other articles.

"Things are going very well here, but I'm addicted to starting new medical schools," said Suskind, who was founding dean of Texas Tech in El Paso before he came to California Northstate.

Just what his students need, a dean with an addiction problem. Apparently no addiction to increase residency spots though. I'm sure someone would be happy to give him a referral to Betty Ford.

 

[NeuResurgens]

Their pharmacy dean also resigned according to one of the other articles.

"Things are going very well here, but I'm addicted to starting new medical schools," said Suskind, who was founding dean of Texas Tech in El Paso before he came to California Northstate.

Just what his students need, a dean with an addiction problem. Apparently no addiction to increase residency spots though. I'm sure someone would be happy to give him a referral to Betty Ford.

 

[kewlboy88]

what the.... their admissions timeline is .... interesting......

http://medicine.cnsu.edu/students-com/admissions/admissions-timeline

Interview invites begins 6 days after secondaries open??


Their FAQ is also ... interesting...:

"How many applications do you receive, interviews do you grant, and applicants do you accept in an average year?
We typically receive more than 1000 applications a year, grant approximately 300 interviews, and offer acceptances to seat a class of 60.

Where am I on the wait list?
Since the wait list changes constantly, sometimes on a daily basis, we do not designate specific numbers. Additionally, it is difficult to anticipate how many wait list applicants will be called to fill the class for a specific year. Because of this reason, we cannot tell a candidate they will, or will not be called off the list, nor can we estimate when. Based on past experience, we can only state our wait list applicants may be notified at any time during the admission cycle. "

You don't even have any applicants yet!

Also, how do they know how many applications they've received ("We typically receive more than 1000 applications a year") when this is their FIRST application cycle AND their "application period" started?

 

[The Real SVB]

Also, how do they know how many applications they've received ("We typically receive more than 1000 applications a year") when this is their FIRST application cycle AND their "application period" started?

 

[kkcc]

The school should be applauded for going through LCME accreditation process. They could have easily applied through COCA and be close to graduating their first class soon if that was the case. We should not pass premature judgements on this decision by LCME, which has never been found guilty of low/questionable accreditation standarts.

Yeah I would give LCME benefit of the doubt for accrediting CNUSOM. I mean, has any medical school in recent history lost LCME accreditation after being awarded preliminary accreditation?

I checked the clinical rotation sites, and those hospitals seem fine to me. Any thoughts?
http://medicine.cnsu.edu/education/clinical-clerkshipsb

Kaiser Permanente of Northern California (over 900 beds and 1,400 physicians)

• Kaiser North Valley
• Kaiser South Sacramento
• Kaiser Roseville

Dignity Health System (over 1,000 beds and 2,100 physicians)

• Mercy General
• Mercy San Juan
• Methodist
• Woodland Memorial

 

[Goro]

It's extremely hard to crack the Kaiser system for rotations; Gawd knows, my school has tried!

I'm telling you, kids, there's something about this school that smells even more than LUCOM.

 

[bear2roo]

It's extremely hard to crack the Kaiser system for rotations; Gawd knows, my school has tried!

I'm telling you, kids, there's something about this school that smells even more than LUCOM.

But to get accreditation from LCME is pretty hard right?

 

[hoihaie]

It's extremely hard to crack the Kaiser system for rotations; Gawd knows, my school has tried!

I'm telling you, kids, there's something about this school that smells even more than LUCOM.

what do you mean hard to crack the system for rotations?

 

[medic86]

Kaiser cult, lol.

I agree with Goro. There's probably a lot of dirtyness going on behind closed doors there.

 

[Goro]

Kaiser doesn't want to pay it's doctors to precept students, they want them to see patients. It's hard mindset to break. Our Clinical Deans have been trying to get our students into Kaiser for years, with little success.

what do you mean hard to crack the system for rotations?

 

[Banco]

I would wait until a few years before I consider a new school.

 

[wzhang728]

Has anyone on sdn applied here yet. If so I`m interested in seeing a thread for it or knowing people's stats and background. I might apply here for kicks.

 

[ChrisMack390]

I think this is an absurd statement.

I work at a non-profit hospital.

Our CEO makes 5 million dollars per year.

Non-profit =/= charity service.

 

[nRomaleos]

can anyone comment on how applying here now affects your AMCAS 2016?

 

[keevwu]

can anyone comment on how applying here now affects your AMCAS 2016?

I believe you would be a reapplicant. If asked whether you have applied to medical school before, you'd have to say yes. This could be a negative.

 

[nRomaleos]

I believe you would be a reapplicant. If asked whether you have applied to medical school before, you'd have to say yes. This could be a negative.

other schools during the the 2015-2016 cycle would know that i applied here?

 

[keevwu]

other schools during the the 2015-2016 cycle would know that i applied here?

I don't think they would know since it's not through AMCAS, but if they asked if you applied last cycle, you'd have to either lie or say yes. I got an email last year from LECOM asking me to apply back in April because they still had spots, but I decided against it because I didn't want to be viewed as a reapplicant.

 

[mehc012]

I don't think they would know since it's not through AMCAS, but if they asked if you applied last cycle, you'd have to either lie or say yes. I got an email last year from LECOM asking me to apply back in April because they still had spots, but I decided against it because I didn't want to be viewed as a reapplicant.

Reapplicant status is usually school-specific. Some schools may ask 'have you ever applied to any medical school before?' but you are only noted in AMCAS as a reapplicant when submitting to a specific, individual school multiple times.

If I apply to school A in 2015, and then schools A, B, C in 2016, I would only be marked as a reapplicant by AMCAS to school A in 2016. Schools B and C wouldn't know unless they asked in a secondary.

Of course, since this isn't AMCAS, it's entirely secondary-dependent.

 

[Buzzlightyear33]

I applied for lulz

Yes it's a new school but graduating from a LCME-approved MD school gives you lots of opportunities...

 

[charmiedermie]

I'll be honest. The lack of federal loans is the only thing stopping me from applying. I don't think I can land in derm, plastics, or radiation oncology to repay my debts

Yes it's a new school but graduating from a LCME-approved MD school gives you lots of opportunities...

I think it is LCME approved.

 

[puppyofthesea]

I applied. I have 4 days to return the supplemental which has five 1800 word essays. Not sure I'm going to go through with it. Starting med school in 3 months frm now would be a huge burden financially and emotionally for my family. It's too sudden, expensive and risky. Part of me thinks I'm giving up the opportunity to go to a Cali MD school. But I don't want to bet my career and future financial stability (in terms of debt) on it.

 

[WastedTime]

I applied. I have 4 days to return the supplemental which has five 1800 word essays. Not sure I'm going to go through with it. Starting med school in 3 months frm now would be a huge burden financially and emotionally for my family. It's too sudden, expensive and risky. Part of me thinks I'm giving up the opportunity to go to a Cali MD school. But I don't want to bet my career and future financial stability (in terms of debt) on it.

Can u post the essays?

 

[puppyofthesea]

I also want to say that the admissions officer's signature in the email has a typo in it. It says "Sincerely, XXXXX California Nortstate University." That rubs me the wrong way. It makes me think that they have done everything hastily and with little oversight

WastedTime, I don't feel comfortable releasing the essays on the internet. Somebody will eventually.

 

[paradoctor1]

Did anyone who submitted the secondary get a confirmation email from them?

 

[amazing tekkers]

Where do I apply?

 

[amazing tekkers]

Minute Clinic

https://www.google.com/maps/place/CVS Pharmacy - Photo/@38.42194,-121.44669,15z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xe51ade7bb4e7c2c4

Oh you

 

[Banco]

I applied. I have 4 days to return the supplemental which has five 1800 word essays. Not sure I'm going to go through with it. Starting med school in 3 months frm now would be a huge burden financially and emotionally for my family. It's too sudden, expensive and risky. Part of me thinks I'm giving up the opportunity to go to a Cali MD school. But I don't want to bet my career and future financial stability (in terms of debt) on it.

5 essays, each 1800 words...?

 

[puppyofthesea]

5 essays, each 1800 words...?

yes, but it is a maximum.

 

[Banco]

yes, but it is a maximum.

I'd hope so.

 

[SoonToBeDrG]

1800 characters, 250 words. Both per essay. NOT 1800 words.

 

[Abraxas65]

1800 characters, 250 words. Both per essay. NOT 1800 words.

I was wondering how long it was going to take someone to correct that