Can a ND become a Psychiatrist?

[jl lin]

As a SICU RN, frankly you still don't know very much about surgical training, esp given your post. It also seems you have very little idea of what actually goes on in an OR but that's really neither here nor there.

There is no orthopedic spine surgeon who has trained less than 6 years, and there is pretty much no neurosurgeon who has trained less than 7. Although 2 of those 7 NS years are sort of or entirely in the lab.

Orthopedic spine (and onc) surgeons do dural and epidural work so not really sure what you're going on about. Intradurally, sure, not too many ortho people want to deal with that sht because frankly most orthos don't go into the field to make their patients incontinent. Also, thanks for explaining to me what the dura is. ;-)

I think you and a number of people in America can be as picky as you want about surgeons but there's very little chance you have any idea as to how to make that decision.

I will give you the resources when I chose to go back and find and post them. I pulled that right from them, but whatever. I will defer to you. My SICU, CICU, PICU mostly is centered in heart, lung, and various critical procedures. I sort of went out of my way to avoid orthopedics area. LOL

I will continue to disagree with the last statement. You'd be surprised what people can research. The fact that the FM worked primarily with the neurosurgeons as a head nurse at an IVY league university medical center is a huge factor as well.

Indeed, people really want to be careful about who it is that messes with their spines and spinal nerves. LOL. If not, they are just plain foolish. If I need a hip replacement, however, I also know where to go straight away.

Stop being a haughty snob KIA...but then again, this wouldn't be SDN if there weren't such replies. Feel free to go on as you like. If I had the same thing as my FM, I would have gone the exact same path. When people sit and think about the fact that it's them--as in themselves--on the table--or their loved ones, often enough, they get REAL serious. The ones that don't, well I feel badly for them, b/c they don't put in the required research or get primary referrals. And you bet. I have seen a fair number of sorry souls over the years, b/c they trusted and didn't do their homework.

About your snarkiness, well bravo! What a chivalrous, courteous, and honorable professional you are--and a fine example of an amiable SDN member! Excellent! Your moniker is certainly well named--rogue--knave could be added as well.

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[NickNaylor]

I will give you the resources when I chose to go back and find and post them. I pulled that right from them, but whatever. I will defer to you. My SICU, CICU, PICU mostly is centered in heart, lung, and various critical procedures. I sort of went out of my way to avoid orthopedics area. LOL

I will continue to disagree with the last statement. You'd be surprised what people can research. The fact that the FM worked primarily with the neurosurgeons as a head nurse at an IVY league university medical center is a huge factor as well.

Indeed, people really want to be careful about who it is that messes with their spines and spinal nerves. LOL. If not, they are just plain foolish. If I need a hip replacement, however, I also know where to go straight away.

Stop being a haughty snob KIA...but then again, this wouldn't be SDN if there weren't such replies. Feel free to go on as you like. If I had the same thing as my FM, I would have gone the exact same path. When people sit and think about the fact that it's them--as in themselves--on the table--or their loved ones, often enough, they get REAL serious. The ones that don't, well I feel badly for them, b/c they don't put in the required research or get primary referrals. And you bet. I have seen a fair number of sorry souls over the years, b/c they trusted and didn't do their homework.

About your snakiness, well bravo! What a chivalrous, courteous, and honorable professional you are--and a fine example of an amiable SDN member! Excellent! Your moniker is certainly well named--rogue--knave could be added as well.

Do you choose your physicians based on (your local magazine's) annual Top 500 Doctors list?

 

[IlDestriero]

Except ND's have prescribing rights in OP's state

That's really frightening.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I will give you the resources when I chose to go back and find and post them. I pulled that right from them, but whatever. I will defer to you. My SICU, CICU, PICU mostly is centered in heart, lung, and various critical procedures. I sort of went out of my way to avoid orthopedics area. LOL

I will continue to disagree with the last statement. You'd be surprised what people can research. The fact that the FM worked primarily with the neurosurgeons as a head nurse at an IVY league university medical center is a huge factor as well.

Indeed, people really want to be careful about who it is that messes with their spines and spinal nerves. LOL. If not, they are just plain foolish. If I need a hip replacement, however, I also know where to go straight away.

Stop being a haughty snob KIA...but then again, this wouldn't be SDN if there weren't such replies. Feel free to go on as you like. If I had the same thing as my FM, I would have gone the exact same path. When people sit and think about the fact that it's them--as in themselves--on the table--or their loved ones, often enough, they get REAL serious. The ones that don't, well I feel badly for them, b/c they don't put in the required research or get primary referrals. And you bet. I have seen a fair number of sorry souls over the years, b/c they trusted and didn't do their homework.

About your snarkiness, well bravo! What a chivalrous, courteous, and honorable professional you are--and a fine example of an amiable SDN member! Excellent! Your moniker is certainly well named--rogue--knave could be added as well.

What?... just so much what...

 

[rocklobstr]

I recently sat through 20 minutes of high school remedial genetics because fully half of Personality Psych class didn't understand what inheritance or what "the big 'H' and little 'H'" meant. I've taken grad level human genetics, so I just kinda stared at the floor.

A poll given by my professor last semester showed that over 50% of the people in my Social Psychology class did not believe in the theory of evolution.

I've heard "It's just a theory" said all to often by psych majors.


So nah, it doesn't surprise me to see a psych major getting into the "alternative medicine" stuff.

I double majored in psychology and a physical science, and no self-respecting psychology student at my university would say that. Must be the location. It is definitely true that a psych student's understanding of genetics is usually pretty limited though, haha.

 

[rocklobstr]

And for all you negative Nancies out there, Chiropractors used to be considered quack doctors. Ahem. But guess who's the first person you call when you throw your back out?

This is anecdotal, but I have a friend who got into to chiropractic school, and they actually teach students to be against vaccinations and any form of medicine at his school. He's also eating it up, which is sad (you should see the completely ignorant/pseudoscience anti-vax stuff he posts on facebook). If/when I become a doctor, I don't think I'd refer patients to him, even for a thrown out back. This is not to say all chiropractors a quacks, but there are definitely some.

 

[DoctorDrewOutsidetheLines]

a fcking orthopedist if you want it actually taken care of.

chiropractors are quacks, pollyanna.

a fcking "huge proponent of natural medicine" advocating abuse of prescription medication. super strong work there pal.

OP said she had ADHD. Nice reading comprehension skills. Don't know why he/she said it, but I assumed he/she had a Rx.

Thanks for the snark everyone. And the compliment! I do consider myself a Pollyanna most of the time.

 

[rocklobstr]

false. you need to expand your knowledge of physics.

in any case the boundary between theory and law is arbitrary.

There is a gravitation law, i.e., Newton's law of universal gravitation: F = GMm/R^2. This was derived from the Theory of general relativity. And no, the distinction between a theory and law is not arbitrary. Don't act so smug.

 

[DrDarce]

That's really frightening.

is that real? what do they prescribe? How do they know what to prescribe?? Maybe they will be just be marijuana doctors, I'd be cool with that. Respect.

 

[deleted407021]

I double majored in psychology and a physical science, and no self-respecting psychology student at my university would say that. Must be the location. It is definitely true that a psych student's understanding of genetics is usually pretty limited though, haha.

Yeah, I'm down in Jawjuh lol

 

[RogueUnicorn]

There is a gravitation law, i.e., Newton's law of universal gravitation: F = GMm/R^2. This was derived from the Theory of general relativity. And no, the distinction between a theory and law is not arbitrary. Don't act so smug.

Bro you just said newton's law of gravitation was derived from general relativity. I mean... there's nothing more to say.

Learn some fcking physics beyond 101 if you're gonna step up to my level dawg. I'm not being smug, just correct.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

I will give you the resources when I chose to go back and find and post them. I pulled that right from them, but whatever. I will defer to you. My SICU, CICU, PICU mostly is centered in heart, lung, and various critical procedures. I sort of went out of my way to avoid orthopedics area. LOL

I will continue to disagree with the last statement. You'd be surprised what people can research. The fact that the FM worked primarily with the neurosurgeons as a head nurse at an IVY league university medical center is a huge factor as well.

Indeed, people really want to be careful about who it is that messes with their spines and spinal nerves. LOL. If not, they are just plain foolish. If I need a hip replacement, however, I also know where to go straight away.

Stop being a haughty snob KIA...but then again, this wouldn't be SDN if there weren't such replies. Feel free to go on as you like. If I had the same thing as my FM, I would have gone the exact same path. When people sit and think about the fact that it's them--as in themselves--on the table--or their loved ones, often enough, they get REAL serious. The ones that don't, well I feel badly for them, b/c they don't put in the required research or get primary referrals. And you bet. I have seen a fair number of sorry souls over the years, b/c they trusted and didn't do their homework.

About your snarkiness, well bravo! What a chivalrous, courteous, and honorable professional you are--and a fine example of an amiable SDN member! Excellent! Your moniker is certainly well named--rogue--knave could be added as well.

you're totally incoherent.

 

[WedgeDawg]

I will continue to disagree with the last statement. You'd be surprised what people can research. The fact that the FM worked primarily with the neurosurgeons as a head nurse at an IVY league university medical center is a huge factor as well.

I've been trying to follow this conversation, but it's been a little difficult. Could you clarify the point you're trying to make with this post, particularly the part I quoted?

 

[rocklobstr]

Bro you just said newton's law of gravitation was derived from general relativity. I mean... there's nothing more to say.

Learn some fcking physics beyond 101 if you're gonna step up to my level dawg. I'm not being smug, just correct.

Your still incorrect about the difference between law and theory. And yes, I incorrectly recalled that, my bad. You can sound smug and also be correct, the two are independent.

 

[jl lin]

Do you choose your physicians based on (your local magazine's) annual Top 500 Doctors list?

No, I actually prefer to choose based on biochemical magnetism. It makes it all so much more enjoyable.

 

[jl lin]

I've been trying to follow this conversation, but it's been a little difficult. Could you clarify the point you're trying to make with this post, particularly the part I quoted?

Sorry, the FM wasn't Family Medicine. In this instance it was family member. Basically, there are concerned, shall we say, consumer savvy people that know who to ask and where to find solid information. Not everyone just takes a name from an online profile/bio and says, "Hey. That looks good," or "I just want this surgery done, and I don't care who does it, b/c I don't want to die." There's a part of me that wants to elaborate more; but, then I say, "It's an online forum, so, what is the point?"

 

[getdown]

And for all you negative Nancies out there, Chiropractors used to be considered quack doctors. Ahem. But guess who's the first person you call when you throw your back out?

Yes, and I know of 2 cases at my hospital where a chiropracter caused a carotid artery dissection through his neck manipulations. The patient stroked out and was brain dead and the family eventually pulled the plug. So, yes, I think chiropracters are quack doctors. Why not go to a DO that specializes in body manipulations instead. I'd trust them more.

 

[rocklobstr]

.

 

[rocklobstr]

Ignore, mobile sdn screwing up.

 

[jl lin]

Yes, and I know of 2 cases at my hospital where a chiropracter caused a carotid artery dissection through his neck manipulations. The patient stroked out and was brain dead and the family eventually pulled the plug. So, yes, I think chiropracters are quack doctors. Why not go to a DO that specializes in body manipulations instead. I'd trust them more.

You said a chiropractor at your hospital, so same chiropractor for two different patients then. Yes. I tried to gently influence a friend to find a DO that is skilled in OMM, but he likes the chiropractor b/c he's right up the street, and he gets to have a message therapist warm him before the chiropractor does his thing. (His insurance covers it.) He has serious PAD too. I just don't want to think about what you shared. Horrible.

 

[jl lin]

you're totally incoherent.

Trying something new. I just went ahead and liked your post. What the hell!

 

[jl lin]

you're totally incoherent.

Here's only one source re: neurosurg post-grad training:

1. How long is a neurosurgical residency? What is the training sequence?
   
   U.S. neurosurgical residencies are between six and eight years, including internship. Typically most programs require:
   • One year of internship.
   • One to two years as a junior resident. This segment of residency typically includes managing ward and ICU patients, seeing consultations in the hospital, including emergency rooms and trauma bay, performing bedside procedures and learning basic to more complicated operations.
   • One year as a mid-level resident. This year may include a rotation at a children's hospital, elective time or research.
   • One to two years of research. This rotation will include protected research time and/or an in-folded fellowship in a sub-specialty of your choosing. The time spent in protected research or during the fellowship can greatly differ across training programs
   • One year as chief resident. This year requires that you manage the entire service of patients and perform highly complex operations. As residents mature through the program, they can expect more and more autonomy in the operating room and will be expected to be competent in patient care decisions.
     
     More information can be found here on how many months residents will spend on each rotation
   • http://www.aans.org/Young Neurosurgeons/Medical Students/Questions You Should Ask.aspx

Another reference re: my original comments:
http://www.marcacohenspinecenter.co...urosurgeon-for-spine-surgery-which-is-better/

Re: the post you called incoherent, below is a link showing only one kind of medium through which patients and their families are becoming more aware of information. People also get to know health care professionals, who help lead them to more information. For pts and families, the idea is to get as informed a possible, not for them to become surgeons. Sigh.

https://www.propublica.org/article/surgery-risks-patient-safety-surgeon-matters

We will see more patient education/advocacy information made available to people, along with the recruitment of healthcare professionals that can help people procure information and data that they may not have been able to procure on their own.

You needlessly got all freaky. It was totally unnecessary and reactionary, but perhaps you are sleep deprived. Point is, people need to be more informed, and indeed they can and should be. It's their lives. Quality of life matters as well. If you were in their shoes, I am sure you would try to do the same thing. I am reasonably sure you would have opted for the particular neurosurgeon if you had the family member's data in front of you--and you were the patient.

 

[IlDestriero]

I think she's incoherent as well, with a hint of flight of ideas.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Here's only one source re: neurosurg post-grad training:

1. How long is a neurosurgical residency? What is the training sequence?
   
   U.S. neurosurgical residencies are between six and eight years, including internship. Typically most programs require:
   • One year of internship.
   • One to two years as a junior resident. This segment of residency typically includes managing ward and ICU patients, seeing consultations in the hospital, including emergency rooms and trauma bay, performing bedside procedures and learning basic to more complicated operations.
   • One year as a mid-level resident. This year may include a rotation at a children's hospital, elective time or research.
   • One to two years of research. This rotation will include protected research time and/or an in-folded fellowship in a sub-specialty of your choosing. The time spent in protected research or during the fellowship can greatly differ across training programs
   • One year as chief resident. This year requires that you manage the entire service of patients and perform highly complex operations. As residents mature through the program, they can expect more and more autonomy in the operating room and will be expected to be competent in patient care decisions.
     
     More information can be found here on how many months residents will spend on each rotation
   • http://www.aans.org/Young Neurosurgeons/Medical Students/Questions You Should Ask.aspx

Another reference re: my original comments:
http://www.marcacohenspinecenter.co...urosurgeon-for-spine-surgery-which-is-better/

Re: the post you called incoherent, below is a link showing only one kind of medium through which patients and their families are becoming more aware of information. People also get to know health care professionals, who help lead them to more information. For pts and families, the idea is to get as informed a possible, not for them to become surgeons. Sigh.

https://www.propublica.org/article/surgery-risks-patient-safety-surgeon-matters

We will see more patient education/advocacy information made available to people, along with the recruitment of healthcare professionals that can help people procure information and data that they may not have been able to procure on their own.

You needlessly got all freaky. It was totally unnecessary and reactionary, but perhaps you are sleep deprived. Point is, people need to be more informed, and indeed they can and should be. It's their lives. Quality of life matters as well. If you were in their shoes, I am sure you would try to do the same thing. I am reasonably sure you would have opted for the particular neurosurgeon if you had the family member's data in front of you--and you were the patient.

I'm pretty sure RogueUnicorn is a resident in a surgical subspecialty, so he probably has a pretty good idea what's going on here...

 

[Psai]

There is a gravitation law, i.e., Newton's law of universal gravitation: F = GMm/R^2. This was derived from the Theory of general relativity. And no, the distinction between a theory and law is not arbitrary. Don't act so smug.

L m a o

It's so obvious when someone doesn't know what they're talking about

 

[cbrons]

Can an ND (non-Doctor) become a psychiatrist? SDN pls...

 

[rocklobstr]

L m a o

It's so obvious when someone doesn't know what they're talking about

I already stated that I incorrectly recalled that. I have no problem to admitting to being wrong. No need to be rude.

 

[Spector1]

Can an ND (non-Doctor) become a psychiatrist? SDN pls...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Abagnale#Physician

Fake it til you make it

 

[medic86]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Abagnale#Physician

Fake it til you make it

DO YOU CONCUR?

 

[Spector1]

DO YOU CONCUR?

 

[jl lin]

I think she's incoherent as well, with a hint of flight of ideas.

How wonderful that you possess the gift of such delicate flattery. OK. I'll give you a like too.

 

[jl lin]

I'm pretty sure RogueUnicorn is a resident in a surgical subspecialty, so he probably has a pretty good idea what's going on here...

That wasn't the issue...at all.

 

[jl lin]

I already stated that I incorrectly recalled that. I have no problem to admitting to being wrong. No need to be rude.

It's so sad that rudeness accompanied with a "How dare you, I know more, if not "it all!" is so often the order of the day by some. This is a long carried over mentality seen online. The Internet! What a great place to maintain that one is king, or part of the circle of kings, while rudely calling others names. LOL. Sad and strangely entertaining at the same time.