Desperately need help on dating

[singlelifeforever]

I created a new username just to ask this question, as I'm pretty embarrassed and desperate and really don't want anyone finding out about it, but I really need opinions on what to do.

I am a mid-30's male, 4th year surgical resident training at one of the top residency programs in the country, so I'd like to think of myself as fairly successfully for getting into the program in the first place. I'm getting to the age where I'd definitively want to start thinking about settling down, but I haven't been very successfully in that area at all. I have never been on a single date, never date anyone, and only had sex once.

I'm generally a sociable person, going out with the other residents in my class as well as in med school, but I just don't talk as much as other people. I mean I do contribute to conversations and people think I'm funny, but I like to listen more than I talk. I'm also extremely unattractive, as I have been told by several of my close female friends. I get along with people great, but, in the exact words of someone I had a crush on: "I just wish you were more attractive". I was out with another close female friend once and she asked if people thought we were dating and that I was extremely rich because of how different we looked. Another time this one girl I was hanging out with randomly blurted out several times to waiters, etc that although we were having dinner together, we're not dating. I have tons more of these stories. And the only connections I get on dating apps like Tinder, OkCupid, or Match have all been robots.

I love being in the OR and I should be paid pretty handsomely once I become an attending, but I always feel like there should be more to life than the hospital. I want to come home to someone, I want to go on vacations with someone, and I want to share my life with someone. It's extremely depressing watching my fellow residents and friends from med school have random hookups, date, or marry. And although I love my job, I've been really depressed lately regarding this issue and I honestly do not know how to be happy with such a significant part missing from my life.

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[Crayola227]

dude, PM me

 

[mpdoc2]

I created a new username just to ask this question, as I'm pretty embarrassed and desperate and really don't want anyone finding out about it, but I really need opinions on what to do.

I am a mid-30's male, 4th year surgical resident training at one of the top residency programs in the country, so I'd like to think of myself as fairly successfully for getting into the program in the first place. I'm getting to the age where I'd definitively want to start thinking about settling down, but I haven't been very successfully in that area at all. I have never been on a single date, never date anyone, and only had sex once.

I'm generally a sociable person, going out with the other residents in my class as well as in med school, but I just don't talk as much as other people. I mean I do contribute to conversations and people think I'm funny, but I like to listen more than I talk. I'm also extremely unattractive, as I have been told by several of my close female friends. I get along with people great, but, in the exact words of someone I had a crush on: "I just wish you were more attractive". I was out with another close female friend once and she asked if people thought we were dating and that I was extremely rich because of how different we looked. Another time this one girl I was hanging out with randomly blurted out several times to waiters, etc that although we were having dinner together, we're not dating. I have tons more of these stories. And the only connections I get on dating apps like Tinder, OkCupid, or Match have all been robots.

I love being in the OR and I should be paid pretty handsomely once I become an attending, but I always feel like there should be more to life than the hospital. I want to come home to someone, I want to go on vacations with someone, and I want to share my life with someone. It's extremely depressing watching my fellow residents and friends from med school have random hookups, date, or marry. And although I love my job, I've been really depressed lately regarding this issue and I honestly do not know how to be happy with such a significant part missing from my life.

Try to go out and join groups like meetup.com

 

[Crayola227]

oh gawd, meetup is rad

there were a few thread the same as this, check them out

in fact, consider dating advice not from this forum

 

[singlelifeforever]

oh gawd, meetup is rad

there were a few thread the same as this, check them out

in fact, consider dating advice not from this forum

Meetup is definitely cool, I just don't have that much time as a surgical resident so I've been using dating apps

 

[Crayola227]

Meetup is definitely cool, I just don't have that much time as a surgical resident so I've been using dating apps

you got it on lockdown then my friend

 

[j4pac]

There are ways of being attractive without having God-given physical attractiveness. You need to do some reading my friend. The first barrier you are going to have to overcome is your lack of self-confidence. Research topic: inner game or confidence building. People are more comfortable around people who are comfortable with themselves. If you don't believe you have something to offer...a woman won't. Believe it or not, the percentage of people in this country who are physically attractive is low. The significant majority is either average or below average. You are a physician and that is enough to knock you up a few pegs if you know what you are doing. The key is knowing how to sell your high points while being confident. There are also ways to maximize your physical attractiveness. If you have female friends, you are two steps ahead on this topic. Ask them what you could do. Fashion? Grooming?

 

[gutonc]

Meetup is definitely cool, I just don't have that much time as a surgical resident so I've been using dating apps

I'm pretty sure Crayola has already asked you out twice in this thread. Pay attention man.

 

[northernpsy]

First of all, don't get down on yourself over your looks. I think there is a decent chance that you are not actually as ugly as you think you are because most of us are much more critical of ourselves than other people are. Even if sometimes people have said rude or unkind things about your looks, that doesn't mean EVERYONE is thinking that way about you. It just means you know a few jerks who are really rude.

HOWEVER, even IF you are in fact certain you really are below average in attractiveness, there is someone out there who would love to date you. If you really believe me when I tell you that, it WILL help you find someone good. The first step to finding a healthy relationship is to believe you deserve love, respect, and affection. If you think you don't deserve to be loved, then that's how you end up settling for an abusive relationship or end up pushing away good people who really do want to be with you.

Even though it may seem like a cliche that ugly people tell themselves, I think it actually is true that looks ain't everything. The reality is that good looks are one of the most fleeting personal qualities. Look at all the formerly hot celebrities out there who now look kind of scary because they had ill advised plastic surgery trying to keep a grasp on their fading looks. 20 years from now, the hot people you know probably won't be quite so hot (many of them will probably have become downright un-hot), but you will still have a good heart, a brilliant mind, and awesome surgical skills (oh yeah, and you'll be rich too - even though being a doctor isn't as good a gig as it used to be, we ARE still rich compared to most people in the world, let's be real). Based on that, I'd say that the girls who are rejecting you for better looking guys are actually just being short sighted idiots.

When I first started dating my husband back in med school, he had a lot more hair on his head and I was thinner than I am now. Believe it or not, though, I actually do find him just as attractive as I did when he was more objectively "hot" and I think he would probably say the same of me. Your perspective of what's attractive can really shift if you have an emotional connection with someone. I also think it tends to change as you get older. I genuinely find people my own age to be more attractive than I would find a super-fit 20 year old hunk, because I know there would be no emotional common ground with the 20 year old.
While I am sure many of us have met the occasional attending who has traded in their first spouse for a new model, I also know lots of attendings who probably could find a hotter person to date/bang if they wanted to with the money they have, but still seem to genuinely love their spouse who is aging right along with them.
(I say "seem to" just because you never REALLY know for sure what people might be up to, but I think many people I know ARE still madly in love with their spouse even if their spouse isn't a babe anymore).

All this being said, here are my tips to you:

-Date ANYONE you can. Don't think you have to be ready to marry the person or even find them attractive to go on a date with them. One date is not a commitment for anything other than just spending a few hours together (I personally spent my single days dating lots of guys casually that I never had sex with because IMO it's a nice way to learn about who you are compatible with before sex makes things more complex).
Dating experience can only help you in relationships IMO. You will learn a lot about yourself and probably feel more confident than you would if you decide it's only worth going out on a date if you are infatuated with the person.
Quite frankly, I've noticed one mistake that Foreveralone people often make is that they are not willing to "lower their standards" to date someone who is equally unattractive. Some guys get upset that hot women ignore them, yet these guys are ignoring very kind and intelligent women who might not be good-looking but would make great partners in other ways. Are you willing to date women who other people would find unattractive? I GUARANTEE you that you will find some women who are not considered "pretty" by conventional standards that would be THRILLED to be asked out by a young surgeon and appreciate what you have to offer as a partner. You might even find that some of them are actually really great people and are just "diamonds in the rough" that other people didn't give a chance.

-When you don't have anything to say about a topic, just ASK THE OTHER PERSON QUESTIONS. The vast majority of people enjoy talking about themselves so pretend you're a talk show host and interview them. Try to develop a genuine curiosity about people and their feelings. As long as it's not a very personal question, most people won't mind at all.

-Women are people. Just treat them like normal people and don't feel intimidated by them. Think of all the people out there who find doctors super-intimidating because they put us on pedestals - and yet here we are, talking about a topic that many perfectly normal people also have struggles with.

 

[JGimpel]

Even if you don't have any of the issues that you have listed and are just being very hard on yourself, get working on the things you feel you are lacking in. If you think you have bad skin, see a derm or esthetitian that's probably in the same office. If you think you're way out of shape, join a cheap gym and get a personal trainer for a month or two until you can make progress on your own. There are plenty of reasons to talk to a potential date (not a potential MATE) when you're away from home. For example, stop wearing a watch outside of the hospital and ask an attractive person for the time. You will quickly run out of excuses and fear of being rejected and have people paid to help you if you ever have doubts again. Just don't be "that guy" that goes everywhere in scrubs with a steth around his neck and you'll be fine. Really.

 

[AlphaBeta<3]

tbh if you're buff, you're automatically at least a 6. Workout, don't skip leg day, and watch them gains. Also, you might want to try a new haircut and personal grooming. Make sure your nails are always cut (don't bite them, that's a pet peeve of mine) and make sure your clothing is good (khakis and a tshirt/button up always work well)

Tbh most girls don't really care about looks, they just want a guy who will treat them the way they want to be treated.

 

[PsyDGurl]

The two most attractive qualities in a man to me, are confidence (bordering on arrogance), and intelligence. You don't have to be the hottest man in the room, you just need to have the confidence to know that you have something that most of the rest don't have ....a working brain (just joking).

I think if you work on your confidence, you'll be golden.

Oh and hopefully you as well can appreciate a woman with equal or greater intellect to your own. Intelligent women have just the same struggle finding men that don't feel threatened by them professionally.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

tbh if you're buff, you're automatically at least a 6. Workout, don't skip leg day, and watch them gains. Also, you might want to try a new haircut and personal grooming. Make sure your nails are always cut (don't bite them, that's a pet peeve of mine) and make sure your clothing is good (khakis and a tshirt/button up always work well)

Tbh most girls don't really care about looks, they just want a guy who will treat them the way they want to be treated.

Lol @ last line

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

I created a new username just to ask this question, as I'm pretty embarrassed and desperate and really don't want anyone finding out about it, but I really need opinions on what to do.

I am a mid-30's male, 4th year surgical resident training at one of the top residency programs in the country, so I'd like to think of myself as fairly successfully for getting into the program in the first place. I'm getting to the age where I'd definitively want to start thinking about settling down, but I haven't been very successfully in that area at all. I have never been on a single date, never date anyone, and only had sex once.

I'm generally a sociable person, going out with the other residents in my class as well as in med school, but I just don't talk as much as other people. I mean I do contribute to conversations and people think I'm funny, but I like to listen more than I talk. I'm also extremely unattractive, as I have been told by several of my close female friends. I get along with people great, but, in the exact words of someone I had a crush on: "I just wish you were more attractive". I was out with another close female friend once and she asked if people thought we were dating and that I was extremely rich because of how different we looked. Another time this one girl I was hanging out with randomly blurted out several times to waiters, etc that although we were having dinner together, we're not dating. I have tons more of these stories. And the only connections I get on dating apps like Tinder, OkCupid, or Match have all been robots.

I love being in the OR and I should be paid pretty handsomely once I become an attending, but I always feel like there should be more to life than the hospital. I want to come home to someone, I want to go on vacations with someone, and I want to share my life with someone. It's extremely depressing watching my fellow residents and friends from med school have random hookups, date, or marry. And although I love my job, I've been really depressed lately regarding this issue and I honestly do not know how to be happy with such a significant part missing from my life.

So you've never been on a date but you slept with one person. Escorts need loving too and you'll have $$ to blow...

 

[Margo]

I created a new username just to ask this question, as I'm pretty embarrassed and desperate and really don't want anyone finding out about it, but I really need opinions on what to do.

I am a mid-30's male, 4th year surgical resident training at one of the top residency programs in the country, so I'd like to think of myself as fairly successfully for getting into the program in the first place. I'm getting to the age where I'd definitively want to start thinking about settling down, but I haven't been very successfully in that area at all. I have never been on a single date, never date anyone, and only had sex once.

I'm generally a sociable person, going out with the other residents in my class as well as in med school, but I just don't talk as much as other people. I mean I do contribute to conversations and people think I'm funny, but I like to listen more than I talk. I'm also extremely unattractive, as I have been told by several of my close female friends. I get along with people great, but, in the exact words of someone I had a crush on: "I just wish you were more attractive".

I love being in the OR and I should be paid pretty handsomely once I become an attending, but I always feel like there should be more to life than the hospital. I want to come home to someone, I want to go on vacations with someone, and I want to share my life with someone. It's extremely depressing watching my fellow residents and friends from med school have random hookups, date, or marry. And although I love my job, I've been really depressed lately regarding this issue and I honestly do not know how to be happy with such a significant part missing from my life.

Hey OP,
I personally prefer dating a guy with a buff body, as opposed to one who is "good looking." And I know I am not the only one. Of course, good personality is a must. So, my advice is don't stress so much about your face and hit the treadmill and weights, as much as you can, as often as possible. P90x is worth looking into, or it's shorter version P90x3. Good luck.

 

[AlphaBeta<3]

Hey OP,
I personally prefer dating a guy with a buff body, as opposed to one who is "good looking." And I know I am not the only one. Of course, good personality is a must. So, my advice is don't stress so much about your face and hit the treadmill and weights, as much as you can, as often as possible. P90x is worth looking into, or it's shorter version P90x3. Good luck.

Agree. I can't be with anyone that doesn't have a 6 pack and overall muscular body

 

[Margo]

Agree. I can't be with anyone that doesn't have a 6 pack and overall muscular body

Don't exaggerate. I never mentioned a six-pack, few have it. I just think a fit body is way more attractive than a pretty face.

 

[lymphocyte]

First of all, don't get down on yourself over your looks. I think there is a decent chance that you are not actually as ugly as you think you are because most of us are much more critical of ourselves than other people are. Even if sometimes people have said rude or unkind things about your looks, that doesn't mean EVERYONE is thinking that way about you. It just means you know a few jerks who are really rude.

HOWEVER, even IF you are in fact certain you really are below average in attractiveness, there is someone out there who would love to date you. If you really believe me when I tell you that, it WILL help you find someone good. The first step to finding a healthy relationship is to believe you deserve love, respect, and affection. If you think you don't deserve to be loved, then that's how you end up settling for an abusive relationship or end up pushing away good people who really do want to be with you.

Even though it may seem like a cliche that ugly people tell themselves, I think it actually is true that looks ain't everything. The reality is that good looks are one of the most fleeting personal qualities. Look at all the formerly hot celebrities out there who now look kind of scary because they had ill advised plastic surgery trying to keep a grasp on their fading looks. 20 years from now, the hot people you know probably won't be quite so hot (many of them will probably have become downright un-hot), but you will still have a good heart, a brilliant mind, and awesome surgical skills (oh yeah, and you'll be rich too - even though being a doctor isn't as good a gig as it used to be, we ARE still rich compared to most people in the world, let's be real). Based on that, I'd say that the girls who are rejecting you for better looking guys are actually just being short sighted idiots.

When I first started dating my husband back in med school, he had a lot more hair on his head and I was thinner than I am now. Believe it or not, though, I actually do find him just as attractive as I did when he was more objectively "hot" and I think he would probably say the same of me. Your perspective of what's attractive can really shift if you have an emotional connection with someone. I also think it tends to change as you get older. I genuinely find people my own age to be more attractive than I would find a super-fit 20 year old hunk, because I know there would be no emotional common ground with the 20 year old.
While I am sure many of us have met the occasional attending who has traded in their first spouse for a new model, I also know lots of attendings who probably could find a hotter person to date/bang if they wanted to with the money they have, but still seem to genuinely love their spouse who is aging right along with them.
(I say "seem to" just because you never REALLY know for sure what people might be up to, but I think many people I know ARE still madly in love with their spouse even if their spouse isn't a babe anymore).

All this being said, here are my tips to you:

-Date ANYONE you can. Don't think you have to be ready to marry the person or even find them attractive to go on a date with them. One date is not a commitment for anything other than just spending a few hours together (I personally spent my single days dating lots of guys casually that I never had sex with because IMO it's a nice way to learn about who you are compatible with before sex makes things more complex).
Dating experience can only help you in relationships IMO. You will learn a lot about yourself and probably feel more confident than you would if you decide it's only worth going out on a date if you are infatuated with the person.
Quite frankly, I've noticed one mistake that Foreveralone people often make is that they are not willing to "lower their standards" to date someone who is equally unattractive. Some guys get upset that hot women ignore them, yet these guys are ignoring very kind and intelligent women who might not be good-looking but would make great partners in other ways. Are you willing to date women who other people would find unattractive? I GUARANTEE you that you will find some women who are not considered "pretty" by conventional standards that would be THRILLED to be asked out by a young surgeon and appreciate what you have to offer as a partner. You might even find that some of them are actually really great people and are just "diamonds in the rough" that other people didn't give a chance.

-When you don't have anything to say about a topic, just ASK THE OTHER PERSON QUESTIONS. The vast majority of people enjoy talking about themselves so pretend you're a talk show host and interview them. Try to develop a genuine curiosity about people and their feelings. As long as it's not a very personal question, most people won't mind at all.

-Women are people. Just treat them like normal people and don't feel intimidated by them. Think of all the people out there who find doctors super-intimidating because they put us on pedestals - and yet here we are, talking about a topic that many perfectly normal people also have struggles with.

This is amazing advice.

Can I make one slightly controversial suggestion? Consider dating someone older. As long as you're upfront about your expectations (not looking to marry, just looking for company) and even your inexperience when the time is right, it could be a wonderful experience. They might even be willing to show you the ropes and offer a sense of perspective that you don't often find on Tindr...

I suggest this because I dated someone who nearly twice my age when I was younger. It started out as a hook-up but turned into a year-long semi-casual relationship. Neither of us were looking for anything more than it. But she gave me a perspective on what really matters and what actually comprises a satisfying relationship. Why? Because she was experienced enough to know better and didn't put with ****. Plus, I became infinitely more confident in bed, mostly by learning how to communicate and being expected to put in some damned effort--instead of giving it the good old college try, like so many young guys tend to do (or so I'm told). You can do this! 99.99% of people struggle with relationships at some point in their life. And a lot of people struggle with loneliness too--even the married ones.

 

[claypigeon]

The older you get, the less physical attraction seems to matter and the more the inner stuff, career prospects, education, etc. fits in.

That said, I have two pieces of advice. First, physically, I don't know what you look like but it's usually feasible to lose some weight, pack on some muscle, dress better, groom better, etc. Make a plan and stick with it.

Second, dating can be a lot of work. Do you think you'll find your future wife at a bar? On tinder? No? Then why use those avenues? Find apps with people just as serious as you. I've been out of the game for a year or two but the paid sites tended to have more serious people. Okcupid seems to have been supplanted by the tinder (I.e Facebook profile, gps, and mutual friends) based apps. Personally, I think meeting through friends or live events is best. Maybe try book clubs? Exercise classes? Meetup groups? Summer sports leagues?

Finally, it may be worth it looking into some self help communities. I'm a big fan of theredpill (google it). If you can get past the misogynistic users, there's a ton of great stuff on dating, fashion, and fitness.

 

[Psai]

This is amazing advice.

Can I make one slightly controversial suggestion? Consider dating someone older. As long as you're upfront about your expectations (not looking to marry, just looking for company) and even your inexperience when the time is right, it could be a wonderful experience. They might even be willing to show you the ropes and offer a sense of perspective that you don't often find on Tindr...

I suggest this because I dated someone who nearly twice my age when I was younger. It started out as a hook-up but turned into a year-long semi-casual relationship. Neither of us were looking for anything more than it. But she gave me a perspective on what really matters and what actually comprises a satisfying relationship. Why? Because she was experienced enough to know better and didn't put with ****. Plus, I became infinitely more confident in bed, mostly by learning how to communicate and being expected to put in some damned effort--instead of giving it the good old college try, like so many young guys tend to do (or so I'm told). You can do this! 99.99% of people struggle with relationships at some point in their life. And a lot of people struggle with loneliness too--even the married ones.

Dated an older lady. It would have never worked out because we were too far apart in age.

 

[Thought Crime Spree]

Add a white coat pic to your Tinder profile and put your med school on there. Women are attracted to prestige success and money like we are to a nice hip to waist ratio.

 

[Thought Crime Spree]

Also, consult a female friend about your dating profiles and make changes as necessary. Smile in your pics. Always swipe right, you can always not message someone if you match and they're a trainwreck. Good luck.

 

[sharpstickie]

Add a white coat pic to your Tinder profile and put your med school on there. Women are attracted to prestige success and money like we are to a nice hip to waist ratio.

I hope this is a joke.

 

[Thought Crime Spree]

Not at all. In lieu of height, biceps, and rugged good looks the OP has to work with what he's got. The doctor angle is a proven strategy. Look around at all the nerdy frumpy docs at your institution with hot wives/girlfriends.

 

[sharpstickie]

Not at all. In lieu of height, biceps, and rugged good looks the OP has to work with what he's got. The doctor angle is a proven strategy. Look around at all the nerdy frumpy docs at your institution with hot wives/girlfriends.

I mean if it works, it works. Posting pictures related to medicine in an effort to gain prestige in social media is something that just pushes my buttons. My brother is in dental school at the moment and it bugs the living daylight out of me when he's posting pictures and such just to impress everyone. But to each his own and I hope OP finds a way to get companionship.

 

[Thought Crime Spree]

I mean if it works, it works. Posting pictures related to medicine in an effort to gain prestige in social media is something that just pushes my buttons. My brother is in dental school at the moment and it bugs the living daylight out of me when he's posting pictures and such just to impress everyone. But to each his own and I hope OP finds a way to get companionship.

Results may vary for dental student pics

 

[Arcan57]

I'm generally a sociable person, going out with the other residents in my class as well as in med school, but I just don't talk as much as other people. I mean I do contribute to conversations and people think I'm funny, but I like to listen more than I talk. I'm also extremely unattractive, as I have been told by several of my close female friends. I get along with people great, but, in the exact words of someone I had a crush on: "I just wish you were more attractive". I was out with another close female friend once and she asked if people thought we were dating and that I was extremely rich because of how different we looked. Another time this one girl I was hanging out with randomly blurted out several times to waiters, etc that although we were having dinner together, we're not dating. I have tons more of these stories.

I'm sure this is a complex issue but one of the things I would do immediately is stop hanging out with these "close female friends". Whether they're just really interested in making sure you know they're not available as romantic partners or they're callous monsters, hanging out with someone that's constantly reinforcing a negative image is a sure way to block personal growth. As many of the female posters have mentioned, confidence is essentially a prerequisite for being seen as attractive if you're not conventionally handsome.

Dating a woman is a completely different skillset from being friends with a woman and despite what all the media we consumed as teenagers and young adults implied, it's vanishingly rare for your super hot friends to finally realize that there's no one she'd rather f$%# than you.

Physical appearance can be hard to change but $500 can seriously up your clothing game. There are tons of online guides to men's style and a well put together outfit can give all sorts of confidence.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Tell the nurses. They'll find u a single mom in no time. Date a few over the next 2 years. Don't marry the first one. You are leaving soon anyway. No more female friends who aren't into you. It's time to **** where u eat. Ask them to set u up.

Also, u are that ugly but decide that u don't give a ****. Women know whether they are interested almost immediately and don't change their minds. So only give them 2 dates to figure it out and move on. Volume is key. Also, get a job in a big city.

Buy a Benz. The new c300 on a lease maybe. Make sure your place isn't better suited to Warcraft than sex.

 

[lymphocyte]

Tell the nurses. It's time to **** where u eat. Ask them to set u up.

Buy a Benz. The new c300 on a lease maybe. Make sure your place isn't better suited to Warcraft than sex.

Easy there cowboy. At least let OP get out of residency. This sounds like a recipe for drama, disaster, or a sexual harassment lawsuit if things go south.

Do you know why people say don't **** where you eat? Because otherwise you might eat ****. Which is often less than ideal.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Noooo...can't date nurses at his next job. That's the real world where his rep will matter. He missed out on his 20s but now is the time.

So many 30 something nurses are damaged goods and he needs that. Look...he's over 30 and has had sex once. This is the major problem in his life. Create some drama at work. It's worth it.

 

[Meeehai]

I created a new username just to ask this question, as I'm pretty embarrassed and desperate and really don't want anyone finding out about it, but I really need opinions on what to do.

I am a mid-30's male, 4th year surgical resident training at one of the top residency programs in the country, so I'd like to think of myself as fairly successfully for getting into the program in the first place. I'm getting to the age where I'd definitively want to start thinking about settling down, but I haven't been very successfully in that area at all. I have never been on a single date, never date anyone, and only had sex once.

I'm generally a sociable person, going out with the other residents in my class as well as in med school, but I just don't talk as much as other people. I mean I do contribute to conversations and people think I'm funny, but I like to listen more than I talk. I'm also extremely unattractive, as I have been told by several of my close female friends. I get along with people great, but, in the exact words of someone I had a crush on: "I just wish you were more attractive". I was out with another close female friend once and she asked if people thought we were dating and that I was extremely rich because of how different we looked. Another time this one girl I was hanging out with randomly blurted out several times to waiters, etc that although we were having dinner together, we're not dating. I have tons more of these stories. And the only connections I get on dating apps like Tinder, OkCupid, or Match have all been robots.

I love being in the OR and I should be paid pretty handsomely once I become an attending, but I always feel like there should be more to life than the hospital. I want to come home to someone, I want to go on vacations with someone, and I want to share my life with someone. It's extremely depressing watching my fellow residents and friends from med school have random hookups, date, or marry. And although I love my job, I've been really depressed lately regarding this issue and I honestly do not know how to be happy with such a significant part missing from my life.

There are a lot of things you can do to make yourself more attractive. Have a good hair cut, dress well, work out, take care of your skin. I think a lot of people who have this mindset that they're hopeless because they don't come off as attractive also don't really take care of themselves like they should. At the end of the day you have to realize that there's no such thing as the perfect guy that every woman likes, everyone has their own tastes and to give yourself the best chance of success with women means approaching as much as possible.

...don't skip leg day...

I'm pretty sure the ladies pay attention to my rock hard triceps, not my legs.

 

[lymphocyte]

So many 30 something nurses are damaged goods and he needs that. Look...he's over 30 and has had sex once. This is the major problem in his life. Create some drama at work. It's worth it.

I always feel like there should be more to life than the hospital. I want to come home to someone, I want to go on vacations with someone, and I want to share my life with someone.

Bro I hear yah. But OP is poignantly asking for advice on how to search for someone that he can share the rest of his life with. You're telling him to go alpha as **** and let it all hang out. I respect that. But loneliness is the key issue.

Whenever I hear that somebody is lonely, I tend to wonder about how they feel about themselves. How you feel about yourself is often where loneliness begins and ends. Lots of married people feel lonely. Lots of single people feel content.

Feeling lonely is normal. But feeling lonely to the point of desperation is not. Why are people put off by desperation? It's probably because most people can intuitively sense the trodden ego that lurks underneath a desperately lonely person. Not appealing. By the same token, a healthy ego--or even malignant one--can be incredibly magnetic.

If you feel desperately lonely, stop with the desperation. Build yourself up, and dump the people that put you down. Value in yourself what you want others to value in you (is that really a car, for example, or your appearance?). I think that's where it starts. @northernpsy's advice is really the best advice I've read for what to do next. I've been in a similar position friend. It sucks. It hurts. It's embarrassing. But it will get better. You're a hot commodity. At a minimum, you have a job, you hopefully bathe regularly, and you aren't fat. That alone vaults you into the 95th percentile of single guys in your age bracket. And you're going to be a surgeon? Good grief man. I guarantee the problem isn't you, but how you feel about yourself and others. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Gastrapathy]

He needs to learn how to compete in this world right now. Soulmate is phase 2.

 

[AlphaBeta<3]

There are a lot of things you can do to make yourself more attractive. Have a good hair cut, dress well, work out, take care of your skin. I think a lot of people who have this mindset that they're hopeless because they don't come off as attractive also don't really take care of themselves like they should. At the end of the day you have to realize that there's no such thing as the perfect guy that every woman likes, everyone has their own tastes and to give yourself the best chance of success with women means approaching as much as possible.



I'm pretty sure the ladies pay attention to my rock hard triceps, not my legs.

i hate seeing top heavy guys with spaghetti noodle legs. the legs and butt are just as important

 

[Meeehai]

i hate seeing top heavy guys with spaghetti noodle legs. the legs and butt are just as important

That's why I wear butt pads under my jeans.

 

[singlelifeforever]

Hey everyone, just wanted to say thanks for all the responses I've been getting. Sorry I haven't been able to respond sooner, but I really appreciate everyone's input so far.

I'm pretty sure Crayola has already asked you out twice in this thread. Pay attention man.

Wait really? Haha I actually didn't pick up on that at all...When Crayola mentioned Meetup, was that asking me out?

tbh if you're buff, you're automatically at least a 6. Workout, don't skip leg day, and watch them gains. Also, you might want to try a new haircut and personal grooming. Make sure your nails are always cut (don't bite them, that's a pet peeve of mine) and make sure your clothing is good (khakis and a tshirt/button up always work well)

Tbh most girls don't really care about looks, they just want a guy who will treat them the way they want to be treated.

I do try to workout as much as I can and I'd like to say I'm fit but not buff and muscular. I know a neuro resident whose life consists solely of the hospital and the gym and I honestly think that's a unfulfilling life.

The two most attractive qualities in a man to me, are confidence (bordering on arrogance), and intelligence. You don't have to be the hottest man in the room, you just need to have the confidence to know that you have something that most of the rest don't have ....a working brain (just joking).

I think if you work on your confidence, you'll be golden.

Oh and hopefully you as well can appreciate a woman with equal or greater intellect to your own. Intelligent women have just the same struggle finding men that don't feel threatened by them professionally.

Absolutely! I have a thing for female lawyers...they're smart, always look great in work skirts, and can probably defend me when someone eventually sues me

This is amazing advice.

Can I make one slightly controversial suggestion? Consider dating someone older. As long as you're upfront about your expectations (not looking to marry, just looking for company) and even your inexperience when the time is right, it could be a wonderful experience. They might even be willing to show you the ropes and offer a sense of perspective that you don't often find on Tindr...

I suggest this because I dated someone who nearly twice my age when I was younger. It started out as a hook-up but turned into a year-long semi-casual relationship. Neither of us were looking for anything more than it. But she gave me a perspective on what really matters and what actually comprises a satisfying relationship. Why? Because she was experienced enough to know better and didn't put with ****. Plus, I became infinitely more confident in bed, mostly by learning how to communicate and being expected to put in some damned effort--instead of giving it the good old college try, like so many young guys tend to do (or so I'm told). You can do this! 99.99% of people struggle with relationships at some point in their life. And a lot of people struggle with loneliness too--even the married ones.

That's a great suggestion. The only person I've slept with was actually 10 years older than I was. We became good friends and one day I told her I was still a virgin and we just decided to go for it! It was a good experience though too bad she starting dating someone else also immediately after that.

I'm sure this is a complex issue but one of the things I would do immediately is stop hanging out with these "close female friends". Whether they're just really interested in making sure you know they're not available as romantic partners or they're callous monsters, hanging out with someone that's constantly reinforcing a negative image is a sure way to block personal growth. As many of the female posters have mentioned, confidence is essentially a prerequisite for being seen as attractive if you're not conventionally handsome.

Dating a woman is a completely different skillset from being friends with a woman and despite what all the media we consumed as teenagers and young adults implied, it's vanishingly rare for your super hot friends to finally realize that there's no one she'd rather f$%# than you.

Physical appearance can be hard to change but $500 can seriously up your clothing game. There are tons of online guides to men's style and a well put together outfit can give all sorts of confidence.

Yeah I haven't hung out with them lately but I have talked to them about it and they have apologized. Haha yes, some of them are very attractive but I don't see any of the them as being a potential partner either by the way they treated some of the guys they were dating, being too high maintenance, or just seeing them as a really good friend and nothing more. However, some of the did take me clothes shopping and it definitely made me look way better.

Bro I hear yah. But OP is poignantly asking for advice on how to search for someone that he can share the rest of his life with. You're telling him to go alpha as **** and let it all hang out. I respect that. But loneliness is the key issue.

Whenever I hear that somebody is lonely, I tend to wonder about how they feel about themselves. How you feel about yourself is often where loneliness begins and ends. Lots of married people feel lonely. Lots of single people feel content.

Feeling lonely is normal. But feeling lonely to the point of depression is not. Why are people put off by that? It's probably because most people can intuitively sense the trodden ego that lurks underneath a desperately lonely person. Not appealing. By the same token, a healthy ego--or even malignant one--can be incredibly magnetic.

If you feel desperately lonely, stop with the desperation. Build yourself up, and dump the people that put you down. Value in yourself what you want others to value in you (is that really a car, for example, or your appearance?). I think that's where it starts. @northernpsy's advice is really the best advice I've read for what to do next. I've been in a similar position friend. It sucks. It hurts. It's embarrassing. But it will get better. You're a hot commodity. At a minimum, you have a job, you hopefully bathe regularly, and you aren't fat. That alone vaults you into the 95th percentile of single guys in your age bracket. And you're going to be a surgeon? Good grief man. I guarantee the problem isn't you, but how you feel about yourself and others. I wish you the best of luck.

This hits the nail. Some people can be lonely even when they're surrounded by people but it's all just a mindset. Your last paragraph was great and definitely built me up. You're right - at this age, we're all pretty hot commodities!

 

[singlelifeforever]

First of all, don't get down on yourself over your looks. I think there is a decent chance that you are not actually as ugly as you think you are because most of us are much more critical of ourselves than other people are. Even if sometimes people have said rude or unkind things about your looks, that doesn't mean EVERYONE is thinking that way about you. It just means you know a few jerks who are really rude.

HOWEVER, even IF you are in fact certain you really are below average in attractiveness, there is someone out there who would love to date you. If you really believe me when I tell you that, it WILL help you find someone good. The first step to finding a healthy relationship is to believe you deserve love, respect, and affection. If you think you don't deserve to be loved, then that's how you end up settling for an abusive relationship or end up pushing away good people who really do want to be with you.

Even though it may seem like a cliche that ugly people tell themselves, I think it actually is true that looks ain't everything. The reality is that good looks are one of the most fleeting personal qualities. Look at all the formerly hot celebrities out there who now look kind of scary because they had ill advised plastic surgery trying to keep a grasp on their fading looks. 20 years from now, the hot people you know probably won't be quite so hot (many of them will probably have become downright un-hot), but you will still have a good heart, a brilliant mind, and awesome surgical skills (oh yeah, and you'll be rich too - even though being a doctor isn't as good a gig as it used to be, we ARE still rich compared to most people in the world, let's be real). Based on that, I'd say that the girls who are rejecting you for better looking guys are actually just being short sighted idiots.

When I first started dating my husband back in med school, he had a lot more hair on his head and I was thinner than I am now. Believe it or not, though, I actually do find him just as attractive as I did when he was more objectively "hot" and I think he would probably say the same of me. Your perspective of what's attractive can really shift if you have an emotional connection with someone. I also think it tends to change as you get older. I genuinely find people my own age to be more attractive than I would find a super-fit 20 year old hunk, because I know there would be no emotional common ground with the 20 year old.
While I am sure many of us have met the occasional attending who has traded in their first spouse for a new model, I also know lots of attendings who probably could find a hotter person to date/bang if they wanted to with the money they have, but still seem to genuinely love their spouse who is aging right along with them.
(I say "seem to" just because you never REALLY know for sure what people might be up to, but I think many people I know ARE still madly in love with their spouse even if their spouse isn't a babe anymore).

All this being said, here are my tips to you:

-Date ANYONE you can. Don't think you have to be ready to marry the person or even find them attractive to go on a date with them. One date is not a commitment for anything other than just spending a few hours together (I personally spent my single days dating lots of guys casually that I never had sex with because IMO it's a nice way to learn about who you are compatible with before sex makes things more complex).
Dating experience can only help you in relationships IMO. You will learn a lot about yourself and probably feel more confident than you would if you decide it's only worth going out on a date if you are infatuated with the person.
Quite frankly, I've noticed one mistake that Foreveralone people often make is that they are not willing to "lower their standards" to date someone who is equally unattractive. Some guys get upset that hot women ignore them, yet these guys are ignoring very kind and intelligent women who might not be good-looking but would make great partners in other ways. Are you willing to date women who other people would find unattractive? I GUARANTEE you that you will find some women who are not considered "pretty" by conventional standards that would be THRILLED to be asked out by a young surgeon and appreciate what you have to offer as a partner. You might even find that some of them are actually really great people and are just "diamonds in the rough" that other people didn't give a chance.

-When you don't have anything to say about a topic, just ASK THE OTHER PERSON QUESTIONS. The vast majority of people enjoy talking about themselves so pretend you're a talk show host and interview them. Try to develop a genuine curiosity about people and their feelings. As long as it's not a very personal question, most people won't mind at all.

-Women are people. Just treat them like normal people and don't feel intimidated by them. Think of all the people out there who find doctors super-intimidating because they put us on pedestals - and yet here we are, talking about a topic that many perfectly normal people also have struggles with.

As others have stated as well, there's some great suggestions in this post, so thank you. I do admit my standards might be a little high for my perceived attractiveness, but I've also been madly in love in with women who weren't physically attractive. We started out as friends, but I started falling for them as we grew closer based on their personalities. I've made several attempts to move forward but haven't been successful. One thing I'm definitely going to start doing is trying to date anyone possible, as you've suggested. I think that's great advice. I might have had an opportunity to go out on a date with someone a few weeks ago, but I didn't take the chance because she was a little different (blue hair, nose ring, etc). I'm seriously regretting that now.

 

[lymphocyte]

I might have had an opportunity to go out on a date with someone a few weeks ago, but I didn't take the chance because she was a little different (blue hair, nose ring, etc). I'm seriously regretting that now.

If things don't work out, can you hook a brother up? Thanks.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I feel for you, man. I know what it's like to be lonesome, to wonder if no one will ever love you.

If you feel that your physical appearance is a problem, you need to maximize what you have. you can;t change the shape of your eyes or the symmetry of your nose, and unlike women who plaster makeup, there's only so much you can do for your face. But you can work on your haircut, being thin and fit, wear flattering clothes. You may also have to maximize other attractive features (career is already appealing to most women), like how well read your are, your outside interests and passions, etc.

I think there are woman who will go for someone not classically attractive, even gorgeous women do that (not often, but they do).

 

[Merely]

Sex one time or with one person? The latter isn't as bad...

 

[Promethean]

So, you aren't in as terrible a situation as you might think.

There are a lot of people who committed to someone just to be in a relationship with someone, and then when they met the person that they really clicked with and wanted to be with, they were stuck with either passing on that opportunity or going for it at the expense of everything that they'd invested in their existing relationship.

You have been focusing on getting your education, and that has been a time and resource intensive endeavor. If someone had been with you during that, they'd have largely been ignored a lot of the time, and the relationship might not have survived. Lots of divorces happen during the medical training process. You got to skip all that.

Lots of people have focused on how you can improve your physical attractiveness, but I think you might benefit from meeting with a therapist. I'm not saying that you are crazy. I'm saying that you could probably use an impartial input from someone who actually sees and interacts with you. Maybe what you think are the problems aren't actually issues, while what is really holding you back is something you haven't really thought about. Maybe it has more to do with communication skills, or assertiveness, etc.

Taking advice to flash around your money and prestige will only get you someone who is attracted to those things. That is fine, but if you are going for that, why not save yourself a lot of heartache and just contract with someone for such services. It would be a lot cheaper than trying to have such an arrangement masquerade as a relationship. I think that you want something more meaningful, so I would encourage you not to give into the easy route of trying to buy a woman's heart. If you have to pay for a confidante, let it be a therapist who can help you figure out how to find the love connection that you are craving.

 

[Promethean]

Don't **** where you eat is generally good advice, but talking with nurses about your availability isn't a bad idea. As long as you don't come across as creepy/stalkerish. Just mention that you are having trouble finding dates because of how much time you have to spend at work and that you wish that there was a good way to meet people who understood what a surgical resident's schedule is like.... then drop it. If they want to keep talking about the subject, fine, you can continue the conversation. Just don't bring it up repeatedly to the same person/group of people over and over. Once should do the trick.

People like to play matchmaker. If they know someone that would be good to introduce you to, they will volunteer that if you make it clear that it would be welcomed. If they don't show interest in doing that, then they probably just don't know someone who would be a good match.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I agree, be careful about trying to use the career/money to attract women. IT's a double edged sword, you'll get more attention but a smaller fraction than before will be heartfelt and genuine. You want her to love you for you - certainly to respect you for your career and the dedication, integrity, intelligence, etc. that it entails - but not for her to be using you for money.

 

[benzyne]

So, you aren't in as terrible a situation as you might think.

There are a lot of people who committed to someone just to be in a relationship with someone, and then when they met the person that they really clicked with and wanted to be with, they were stuck with either passing on that opportunity or going for it at the expense of everything that they'd invested in their existing relationship.

You have been focusing on getting your education, and that has been a time and resource intensive endeavor. If someone had been with you during that, they'd have largely been ignored a lot of the time, and the relationship might not have survived. Lots of divorces happen during the medical training process. You got to skip all that.

Lots of people have focused on how you can improve your physical attractiveness, but I think you might benefit from meeting with a therapist. I'm not saying that you are crazy. I'm saying that you could probably use an impartial input from someone who actually sees and interacts with you. Maybe what you think are the problems aren't actually issues, while what is really holding you back is something you haven't really thought about. Maybe it has more to do with communication skills, or assertiveness, etc.

Taking advice to flash around your money and prestige will only get you someone who is attracted to those things. That is fine, but if you are going for that, why not save yourself a lot of heartache and just contract with someone for such services. It would be a lot cheaper than trying to have such an arrangement masquerade as a relationship. I think that you want something more meaningful, so I would encourage you not to give into the easy route of trying to buy a woman's heart. If you have to pay for a confidante, let it be a therapist who can help you figure out how to find the love connection that you are craving.

I definitely agree.

Also, what I've come to realize is that you have to look in the right pool of people. I had never had a boyfriend until my senior year of college, and that was because I thought a good place to look for potential mates was out at the bar or at parties. My boyfriend now is a total math nerd, but he is a good human being. Yeah, he doesn't have a six pack all the time (he's so skinny!) and he has kind of a goofy grin, but he listens to me, is kind, is funny, and is everything I want in a lifelong partner. I met him through clubs in my undergrad campus. I read an article about what kind of marriages happen (jobwise) and a lot of times it's a double physician marriage because you understand each other on a deeper level. My boyfriend is great, but he'll never know what it's like to have two hands inside of a cadaver. Because he is so smart, he also is not intimidated by me, which happens a lot to females in the medical profession.

Go for a smart girl. They'll love the fact that they can make jokes like "what nerve stimulates the clitoris?" and you can answer "the hypoglossal nerve" without missing a beat. If you're in a college town, try hanging out in the engineering library or attending campus events. It's a great way to expand both your friendship and dating pool

Good luck to you. It all works out eventually

 

[DokterMom]

I'm going to suggest that you ask your friends to set you up, and let them know that it's OK with you if the person they set you up with is not a 10 so long as they're intelligent, kind, funny - whatever else you want in a person. There are so many things more important than looks, but if you're relying on strategies that strongly favor the good-looking (dating apps) you'll be at permanent disadvantage.

 

[j4pac]

I'm pretty sure Crayola has already asked you out twice in this thread. Pay attention man.

She can talk science fiction and Game of Thrones for days. If she is at least a 4...she could be a keeper!

 

[Winged Scapula]

Noooo...can't date nurses at his next job. That's the real world where his rep will matter. He missed out on his 20s but now is the time.

So many 30 something nurses are damaged goods and he needs that. Look...he's over 30 and has had sex once. This is the major problem in his life. Create some drama at work. It's worth it.

I get where you're going with this and with someone else this might be good advice.

However, the OP would be ripe for being taken advantage of in those situations. He's probably a naïve guy that has the propensity to fall in love with the first woman that looks at him seriously.

The last thing he needs is some damage goods nurse with a couple of kids latching onto him because he's a doctor. Those guys get taken advantage of all the time. Pretty soon he'll be paying child support to someone who didn't really care about him and was only using him to get herself out of a bad situation.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I get where you're going with this and with someone else this might be good advice.

However, the OP would be ripe for being taken advantage of in those situations. He's probably a naïve guy that has the propensity to fall in love with the first woman that looks at him seriously.

The last thing he needs is some damage goods nurse with a couple of kids latching onto him because he's a doctor. Those guys get taken advantage of all the time. Pretty soon he'll be paying child support to someone who didn't really care about him and was only using him to get herself out of a bad situation.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Agreed, thank you. Part of the reason why I would never consider a nurse for a wife, only a fellow doctor/pharmacist or someone outside of medicine.

 

[mpdoc2]

Agreed, thank you. Part of the reason why I would never consider a nurse for a wife, only a fellow doctor/pharmacist or someone outside of medicine.

Depends on how hot she is.

 

[Psai]

I definitely agree.

Also, what I've come to realize is that you have to look in the right pool of people. I had never had a boyfriend until my senior year of college, and that was because I thought a good place to look for potential mates was out at the bar or at parties. My boyfriend now is a total math nerd, but he is a good human being. Yeah, he doesn't have a six pack all the time (he's so skinny!) and he has kind of a goofy grin, but he listens to me, is kind, is funny, and is everything I want in a lifelong partner. I met him through clubs in my undergrad campus. I read an article about what kind of marriages happen (jobwise) and a lot of times it's a double physician marriage because you understand each other on a deeper level. My boyfriend is great, but he'll never know what it's like to have two hands inside of a cadaver. Because he is so smart, he also is not intimidated by me, which happens a lot to females in the medical profession.

Go for a smart girl. They'll love the fact that they can make jokes like "what nerve stimulates the clitoris?" and you can answer "the hypoglossal nerve" without missing a beat. If you're in a college town, try hanging out in the engineering library or attending campus events. It's a great way to expand both your friendship and dating pool

Good luck to you. It all works out eventually

I was like haha yeah the hypoglossal...wait...that's for the...ohhh clever!