DMU vs Western U COMP

[I ate too much]

I am aware that this comparison has been discussed in the past; however, the most recent thread dates back to 2011. I would like some fresh opinions.

I am in a bit of a bind.

DMU was absolutely amazing when I was there. It was the first school that actually "wow-ed" me. The environment and student body was very friendly and welcoming. It gave off a very close family feel. I've also heard that it is known as one of the best osteopathic schools. The low tuition and brand new facilities at DMU make the choice all the more attractive.

Nonetheless, I'm from Southern California, so Des Moines would be quite a drastic change from home.

Western U on the other hand has been a school that I've heard a lot of "horror" stories from fellow Californians that applied/matriculated. Some of the current students shared during campus tours that the recent classes of 2018 and the incoming class of 2019 show gunner tendencies and the professors aren't often available. Although while interviewing there, except the fact that facilities seem slightly older, I didn't really sense anything to be significantly off putting. I also really like that they adopt a systems based curriculum (though, I heard that people complained about the "small groups").

Ultimately, what makes this a really tough choice is that I live literally 10 minutes away from COMP. No joke. My family would like for me to stay. I really have no clue how to make this choice...

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[s5260205]

I would personally choose Western since it's much cheaper without having to pay rent and with families and friends nearby for support. You will also have a better chance of matching into a residency in California by going to Western.

 

[AlteredScale]

I am aware that this comparison has been discussed in the past; however, the most recent thread dates back to 2011. I would like some fresh opinions.

I am in a bit of a bind.

DMU was absolutely amazing when I was there. It was the first school that actually "wow-ed" me. The environment and student body was very friendly and welcoming. It gave off a very close family feel. I've also heard that it is known as one of the best osteopathic schools. The low tuition and brand new facilities at DMU make the choice all the more attractive.

Nonetheless, I'm from Southern California, so Des Moines would be quite a drastic change from home.

Western U on the other hand has been a school that I've heard a lot of "horror" stories from fellow Californians that applied/matriculated. Some of the current students shared during campus tours that the recent classes of 2018 and 2019 are filled with gunners and the professors aren't often available. Although while interviewing there, except the fact that facilities seem slightly older, I didn't really sense anything to be significantly off putting. I also really like that they adopt a systems based curriculum (though, I heard that people complained about the "small groups").

Ultimately, what makes this a really tough choice is that I live literally 10 minutes away from COMP. No joke. My family would like for me to stay. I really have no clue how to make this choice...

This decision should be completely about what you want. If you want to be in a community that is supporting (students, faculty, and staff alike) then perhaps DMU would be a better since that's what wowed you.

If staying in CA is your goal, then choose Western. But I agree with your sentiments about it, I went to preview day and received the same vibe. And that's a give that you'll witness a lot of odd personalities or "gunner"-like people there as there are many CA applicants who probably applied to 20 MD schools and 1 DO and decided they wanted to stay there.

I personally would choose DMU solely on the basis that there's not a lot of competition for clinical sites (you only have UofIowa medical students) and you could get decent clinical exposure there. I just don't like that they have a test every week. But they are a very strong school.

Tough choice! Good luck!

 

[I ate too much]

I would personally choose Western since it's much cheaper without having to pay rent and with families and friends nearby for support. You will also have a better chance of matching into a residency in California by going to Western.

Originally I thought that it would be hard to get a residency back in California if I were to go to DMU, but I've heard from many DMU Californians that it's all about the step 1 score and the fact that I am a California resident and someone who wants to go into either family/internal medicine makes the return pretty achievable. I hope there's some truth in that...

 

[I ate too much]

I went to preview day and received the same vibe. And that's a give that you'll witness a lot of odd personalities or "gunner"-like people there as there are many CA applicants who probably applied to 20 MD schools and 1 DO and decided they wanted to stay there.

That's what I hear a lot from the current students. A lot of them seem to have a chip on their shoulders due to the fact that MD schools rejected them...

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Having a good support system is important and the tuition difference isn't that bad. You're going to have gunners where every you go.

 

[Sack Jostler]

I'd probably pick the one that's closer to home, if tuition is the same either way

 

[CaptK7]

I am trying to decide between these two as well. Also from Socal, but have some ties to Iowa. I really enjoyed the interview day at Western and speaking with the students/faculty. I would like to do my residency in CA, if possible, so I am currently leaning towards COMP. For me a con of DMU is the fact that you may end up in a different state for years 3 and 4.

 

[Stlblues17]

Choose Western... Just in case DMU WLs me ... I would choose where you would be most comfortable learning at.

Congrats on acceptances

 

[JPickos9989]

I am trying to decide between these two as well. Also from Socal, but have some ties to Iowa. I really enjoyed the interview day at Western and speaking with the students/faculty. I would like to do my residency in CA, if possible, so I am currently leaning towards COMP. For me a con of DMU is the fact that you may end up in a different state for years 3 and 4.

You're only going to end up in a different state if you decide to pursue those rotations for year three. There are much more rotation sites in Iowa than there are out of state. And year four is audition rotations so I don't know why you wouldn't seek out rotations in different states.

 

[CaptK7]

You're only going to end up in a different state if you decide to pursue those rotations for year three. There are much more rotation sites in Iowa than there are out of state. And year four is audition rotations so I don't know why you wouldn't seek out rotations in different states.

Is it a lottery system for year three? About how many students stay in IA? DMU seems awesome in many ways(students, faculty, facilities). This is a hard decision and I am trying to figure these things out, so i appreciate any insight you can provide. I believe that staying in CA would probably allow more opportunity to network regarding residency. What are your thoughts?

 

[JPickos9989]

DMU does do a lottery system where you pick your top six rotation sites that you would like to go to. Something like 90-95% of students get one of their top 3 choices which seems pretty good to me. The vast majority of students stay in Iowa because a lot of people don't want to pick up and move again and you have a couple weeks where you have to return to DMU so there's some travel involved with out of state sites. They are also working on getting more year long sites out of state, I had overheard CA was a target, but our rotation sites tend to change a little bit from year to year.

In terms of networking it is definitely easier to be in the home state, but there's nothing stopping you from setting up auditions throughout CA in your fourth year and then it's up to you to impress them. We get 32 weeks of electives fourth year, which is pretty much all for auditions and only 8 weeks of required rotations (4 weeks in FM and another 4 in either FM, rural, global, or community medicine).

Ultimately wherever you think you are going to succeed the most during years 1 and 2 is the place you need to go. Your pre-clinical years set you up for boards, and board scores are obviously a huge factor for residency. Wherever you go, what you put in is what you're going to get out. Some schools may make it easier or make it harder to put in the work, for me DMU makes it easy to put in the work and there's tons of support staff and fellow students are beyond helpful.

 

[GUH]

Western U on the other hand has been a school that I've heard a lot of "horror" stories from fellow Californians that applied/matriculated. Some of the current students shared during campus tours that the recent classes of 2018 and 2019 are filled with gunners and the professors aren't often available.

They're lying to you because the Class of 2019 hasn't even been filled yet.

I am an OMS-2 at COMP and yes; I have heard some things about the first-years that makes some of them sound like gunners. My class hasn't had that problem to the same extent, so your mileage may vary depending on who your classmates are. The good thing about that is that you don't have to play their games if you don't want to; you can just ignore them and try to do the best that you can.
I only rarely visit faculty but so far haven't had any trouble doing so. Some of the complaints have stemmed from students who post questions to faculty on the online discussion board late the night before an exam.

Yes; there are some students who make it seem like they'd rather be at an allopathic school. However, judging by what I've seen here on SDN, that hardly seems unusual. I don't let it bother me and mostly hang out with people who are glad to be future DO's - participation in SAAO events is one easy way to go about this.
As for rotation locations, if you attend WesternU it is almost certain that you will be able to do all of your rotations in Southern California if you choose to do so. That being said, some of the rotations may be 50 or more miles from campus. We, too, have a lottery system for rotation tracks in which most people get their first choice and the vast majority of the rest get their second or third choice.

Being in Southern California, there are plenty of opportunities for joint events with other medical schools - conferences, UltraFest, Med Games, and so forth. We have plenty of opportunities for residents, attendings, and PD's from various programs to come to club meetings on campus.

 

[I ate too much]

They're lying to you because the Class of 2019 hasn't even been filled yet.
I am an OMS-2 at COMP and yes; I have heard some things about the first-years that makes some of them sound like gunners. My class hasn't had that problem to the same extent, so your mileage may vary depending on who your classmates are.

The Class of 2019 profile was shared by one of the student ambassadors (also a second year) who based his opinion on his conversations with the interviewees that he encountered during campus tours he led on interview dates.

What are your opinions on small group and the systems based curriculum. Do you feel like this format helps better prepare you for step 1? One of the main complaints I heard was regarding the small groups...

 

[GUH]

The Class of 2019 profile was shared by one of the student ambassadors (also a second year) who based his opinion on his conversations with the interviewees that he encountered during campus tours he led on interview dates.

What are your opinions on small group and the systems based curriculum. Do you feel like this format helps better prepare you for step 1? One of the main complaints I heard was regarding the small groups...

Good question. Small groups are a part of the curriculum, but I wouldn't say that they are a huge part of most courses we take. In a typical week we'll maybe have 15-20 hours of lecture vs about 0-5 hours of scheduled small group time. I honestly don't get a whole lot out of small group time because we have so much material that it's difficult for me to prepare for them in advance. Some of my classmates feel differently. The good news is that we usually finish our assignment in about one-half to two-thirds of the allotted time, after which we can usually leave to work on whatever we need to. Overall they don't take up too much time and at least what we're working on is testable material. In terms of board prep, I don't feel that small groups will strongly impact my score either way.

Also, I'm not sure how you can tell whether a class is full of gunners by looking at the class profile. Being a gunner isn't so much about what you achieve as how you achieve it. Example of gunner behavior: Petitioning to have a poorly-written question you missed thrown out when you could have just as easily petitioned for it to be counted as a bonus question, thus reducing some of your classmates' grades. Not gunner behavior: Working your tail off and being a top student in the class while still correctly and patiently answering your classmates' questions when you study together.

 

[dudeliness]

I'm going to have to agree with GUH. I'm also a western 2nd year, albeit up in Oregon. Professors are not hard to get a hold of. Small groups are what you make of them, but are not bad. I've visited the California campus and I'd have to say the vast majority are NOT gunners, there's a great family/community atmosphere. And at least up in Oregon we had 100% get their first choice rotation spot. For real.

Now, I don't want anyone thinking I'm a western fanboy and blind to any faults at the school. I will say though, that every school is bound to have some kind of drawback or issue. I think our school is pretty great, and none of the issues are more inconvenient than too many emails from the school.

 

[I ate too much]

Good question. Small groups are a part of the curriculum, but I wouldn't say that they are a huge part of most courses we take. In a typical week we'll maybe have 15-20 hours of lecture vs about 0-5 hours of scheduled small group time. I honestly don't get a whole lot out of small group time because we have so much material that it's difficult for me to prepare for them in advance. Some of my classmates feel differently. The good news is that we usually finish our assignment in about one-half to two-thirds of the allotted time, after which we can usually leave to work on whatever we need to. Overall they don't take up too much time and at least what we're working on is testable material. In terms of board prep, I don't feel that small groups will strongly impact my score either way.

Also, I'm not sure how you can tell whether a class is full of gunners by looking at the class profile. Being a gunner isn't so much about what you achieve as how you achieve it. Example of gunner behavior: Petitioning to have a poorly-written question you missed thrown out when you could have just as easily petitioned for it to be counted as a bonus question, thus reducing some of your classmates' grades. Not gunner behavior: Working your tail off and being a top student in the class while still correctly and patiently answering your classmates' questions when you study together.

If you had one or two complaints about Western U COMP, what would they be?

 

[I ate too much]

If anyone who's currently a DMU student could share the common complaints at DMU, that would be helpful, too.

 

[Goro]

Flip a coin; I believe that you'll get a fine education at both schools. I have faculty colleagues from both places who are wonderful and brilliant; and my own doctor is a Western grad. It's disconcerting when students trash their own school, and negatives always send up your radar. But on the flip side, did you feel any love from current Western students?

Might be best to post in the school-specific threads to garner more feedback.

I am aware that this comparison has been discussed in the past; however, the most recent thread dates back to 2011. I would like some fresh opinions.

I am in a bit of a bind.

DMU was absolutely amazing when I was there. It was the first school that actually "wow-ed" me. The environment and student body was very friendly and welcoming. It gave off a very close family feel. I've also heard that it is known as one of the best osteopathic schools. The low tuition and brand new facilities at DMU make the choice all the more attractive.

Nonetheless, I'm from Southern California, so Des Moines would be quite a drastic change from home.

Western U on the other hand has been a school that I've heard a lot of "horror" stories from fellow Californians that applied/matriculated. Some of the current students shared during campus tours that the recent classes of 2018 and 2019 are filled with gunners and the professors aren't often available. Although while interviewing there, except the fact that facilities seem slightly older, I didn't really sense anything to be significantly off putting. I also really like that they adopt a systems based curriculum (though, I heard that people complained about the "small groups").

Ultimately, what makes this a really tough choice is that I live literally 10 minutes away from COMP. No joke. My family would like for me to stay. I really have no clue how to make this choice...

 

[JPickos9989]

If anyone who's currently a DMU student could share the common complaints at DMU, that would be helpful, too.

I was wowed by interview day at DMU as well and I knew I wanted to go to DMU if I was accepted. I didn't change my mind for the rest of the cycle and now after being here for 6 months my mind still hasn't changed nor have I wished I was anywhere else. I honestly don't have any complaints about DMU. Are there small things that could be changed or that are mildly frustrating until it's over? Yeah probably, but there hasn't been anything like that for me yet. There have been complaints from class to class, but DMU has implemented changes in response to those common complaints. The school continues to do that throughout the year, getting feedback on anything and everything and how they can improve all aspects at DMU, so whatever the "common complaints" may be they tend to get resolved from year to year.

On top of it all, the new dean is one of the most passionate people you will meet about the field of medicine and he's going to hold you to a very high standard if you come to DMU. He's not one to sit and wait, he wants to make improvements quickly and that's being shown in how fast they are implementing ultrasound into our curriculum (which we will have it in next year). It also includes some improvements to board prep time and creating new electives to help people stand out for different fields.

As for the class atmosphere, the feeling you got on interview day doesn't change. It's like that all year around and for the entire time you're on campus, which is a huge plus to me.

Hope this helps

 

[GUH]

If you had one or two complaints about Western U COMP, what would they be?

I am very glad to be at COMP. If I had to choose two areas to improve on from my perspective, however, they would be:
1) The class size is quite large. We started out around 225 on the Pomona campus last year and are still hovering at over 200. I still occasionally see people in class whom I have never seen before and would have preferred a smaller class.
2) I could very well be wrong, but it feels like some of the material is not board-relevant or clinically relevant unless you're planning to go into academia or a very specialized branch of medicine. I have heard this complaint at some other schools too, however.

 

[keevwu]

do you want to practice/do a residency in CA? if so, going to western could help your cause. family could be a good support system for you throughout med school too.

 

[I ate too much]

do you want to practice/do a residency in CA? if so, going to western could help your cause. family could be a good support system for you throughout med school too.

I've heard that it's not extremely difficult for a CA resident to return for residency, not sure to what extent that is true... Nonetheless, I've heard that the match rate for people from DMU back to CA wasn't too bad considering that there aren't that many Californians there to begin with.

 

[keevwu]

I've heard that it's not extremely difficult for a CA resident to return for residency, not sure to what extent that is true... Nonetheless, I've heard that the match rate for people from DMU back to CA wasn't too bad considering that there aren't that many Californians there to begin with.

what?

 

[I ate too much]

what?

What I meant was that there are not a lot of people from California at DMU and thus by that logic there also won't be a lot of people who were CA natives trying to match back to California for residency.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Western U on the other hand has been a school that I've heard a lot of "horror" stories from fellow Californians that applied/matriculated. Some of the current students shared during campus tours that the recent classes of 2018 and 2019 are filled with gunners and the professors aren't often available.

Well, we don't have a class of 2019, so I don't know what you're talking about, but I can tell you that, if you go by the correct definition of gunner, which is people sabotaging others to advance, that's not the case at all with 2018. I have a lot of reservations about the curriculum and the school, but I've never encountered anyone that's done something outright malicious. If you mean people that study their ass off and pull off the wall scores, the answer is yes. I honestly don't know how our test averages are so ridiculously high.

I don't know how DMU is, but I do think there are many disappointing things with WesternU. The "Interprofessional education" is simply a scam and a waste of time. Service Learning is also another thing that sucks up your time for no reason and you learn nothing. The "Essentials of Clinical Medicine" course does not prepare you well and throws you into unreasonable situations. We also do 4 hours of OMM a week, which makes me want to put a gun to my head (not serious).

Some professors are good, many are bad, but I haven't experienced a single one being unavailable. At the least they will answer all your questions on the discussion boards.

 

[I ate too much]

Well, we don't have a class of 2019, so I don't know what you're talking about, but I can tell you that, if you go by the correct definition of gunner, which is people sabotaging others to advance, that's not the case at all with 2018. I have a lot of reservations about the curriculum and the school, but I've never encountered anyone that's done something outright malicious. I

Could you elaborate on this? The systems based curriculum seems a lot more attractive than the hybrid type curriculum DMU has. Do you feel that it better prepares you for boards?

In regards to gunners, I think that was poorly phrased on my part. I'm aware that I will be a part of the class of 2019, the opinion was generated by current students based upon their interactions with the applicants during lunch time Q&As. I'm sure a lot of it is just stereotyping/profiling.

 

[Anicetus]

I am aware that this comparison has been discussed in the past; however, the most recent thread dates back to 2011. I would like some fresh opinions.

I am in a bit of a bind.

DMU was absolutely amazing when I was there. It was the first school that actually "wow-ed" me. The environment and student body was very friendly and welcoming. It gave off a very close family feel. I've also heard that it is known as one of the best osteopathic schools. The low tuition and brand new facilities at DMU make the choice all the more attractive.

Nonetheless, I'm from Southern California, so Des Moines would be quite a drastic change from home.

Western U on the other hand has been a school that I've heard a lot of "horror" stories from fellow Californians that applied/matriculated. Some of the current students shared during campus tours that the recent classes of 2018 and the incoming class of 2019 show gunner tendencies and the professors aren't often available. Although while interviewing there, except the fact that facilities seem slightly older, I didn't really sense anything to be significantly off putting. I also really like that they adopt a systems based curriculum (though, I heard that people complained about the "small groups").

Ultimately, what makes this a really tough choice is that I live literally 10 minutes away from COMP. No joke. My family would like for me to stay. I really have no clue how to make this choice...

I had to make this same decision at one point in my application cycle due to deadlines and deposits.

This is obviously my opinion, but take westernU and don't look back. California residencies are different in that they are way more biased against DOs than most states, except most of them have heard of westernU versus DMU. So at least going to westernU will give you a leg up against the out of state DO schools when it comes to that initial selection process. Remember that California has some of the most applied to residencies because everyone from Ca either wants to come back, or the ppl in the Ca MD schools want to STAY there. Obviously if you go to DMU and pull a 265 on the USMLE they will look twice at you, but good luck with that. I mean nothing is IMPOSSIBLE right?

The competitiveness of westernU students I would imagine comes from the fact that they are DO students trying to do he best that they can to compete against their local MD schools for those residency spots, which is fine. There is nothing wrong with that. It's good to be surrounded by motivated people.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Could you elaborate on this? The systems based curriculum seems a lot more attractive than the hybrid type curriculum DMU has. Do you feel that it better prepares you for boards?

In regards to gunners, I think that was poorly phrased on my part. I'm aware that I will be a part of the class of 2019, the opinion was generated by current students based upon their interactions with the applicants during lunch time Q&As. I'm sure a lot of it is just stereotyping/profiling.

I don't know what curriculum they have, but this school will flood you with a lot of peripheral stuff that will suck your time from the science you need to learn. The way it is currently set up is that we do a bunch of basic science in the first year. During second year we do basic science applied to the systems. My understanding is that other schools (like KCUMB) first see the systems on health and then systems on pathology. This way you pretty much end up studying everything twice and doing better on boards, which I think the evidence suggests because KCUMB's board averages are higher.

 

[AlteredScale]

I don't know what curriculum they have, but this school will flood you with a lot of peripheral stuff that will suck your time from the science you need to learn. The way it is currently set up is that we do a bunch of basic science in the first year. During second year we do basic science applied to the systems. My understanding is that other schools (like KCUMB) first see the systems on health and then systems on pathology. This way you pretty much end up studying everything twice and doing better on boards, which I think the evidence suggests because KCUMB's board averages are higher.

Yep. Systems-based. First year is embryology, anatomy, physiology with a little path to not keep you from going crazy. Second year is the same systems but pathology and pharm focused.

We also do practice Grand Rounds starting 1st year and have to present in front of faculty from hospital outside including KUMC (MD university hospital for KUSOM). It looks daunting that's for sure. But as you said, should help for boards.

 

[meliora27]

.

 

[plee]

Hi OP,

I know that this message may be too late since you posted in January, but just in case others are in a similar situation I can give my thoughts on this:

I am also from Los Angeles, and went to school for most of my life here. The only time I left was for a post-bacc program in CSU-East Bay and a surgery internship at UC Davis. Other than that, its been Los Angeles for everything. So when I went to Des Moines for my interview, I was thinking how would a city guy like me be able to survive out there. I went because it was one of my top choices and I haven't heard from WesternU. However, my experience at DMU was similar to yours. I was blown away by the entire interview process from the friendly environment to the surgical skills lab. I drove around the area as I had a few days there, and the place was beautiful and amazing. I honestly did not expect to be taken aback like this at all. Fast forward a month and I got my interview to WesternU. The interview process was great and staff were welcoming there as well.

I was torn between these two universities. I ultimately chose WesternU because I have my family in southern California, and this was my deciding factor. I am currently an OMS-I at WesternU-COMP, and I do not regret my decision. Our curriculum is systems based, and we have OMM and Clinical Medicine throughout the entire first two years of academia. We started with Medical Gross Anatomy and some foundation classes like Molecular Bio and Infectious Diseases & Immunology. The first system we encountered was Blood and Lymph, and currently we are on Neuroanatomy. We are on Spring Break and will resume the rest of Neuroanatomy when we get back.

Medical school in itself is not easy, but many other schools will transition their students by easing them into the curriculum. Don't expect that here. WesternU will definitely push you to your limits as soon as you enter. Initially I thought that this was unreasonable. However, I am learning to appreciate this as we have been exposed to many standardized patients, written countless numbers of SOAP notes, and have been able to directly affect patients lives during volunteering opportunities at clinic. Every course also has clinical correlation so it is a challenging but enjoyable process to learning the material. WesternU will make sure that you will stand out during rotations, and prepare you well for your future career in medicine. There is also the LEAD office where you can sign up for tutoring for any of the classes. Use this service if you even think that you may fall behind. There are luncheons sponsored by different clubs and they provide a wealth of knowledge, and pizza. You will eat a lot of pizza. Because its free and who doesn't love free.

Ultimately, I think that you can't go wrong either way. I don't know much about DMU or the other schools, but be appreciative in having the opportunity to study medicine and study hard. It is a long journey so find a good group of friends, a good study chair, and enjoy the ride.

 

[darknecrosforte]

WesternU will make sure that you will stand out during rotations, and prepare you well for your future career in medicine. There is also the LEAD office where you can sign up for tutoring for any of the classes. Use this service if you even think that you may fall behind. There are luncheons sponsored by different clubs and they provide a wealth of knowledge, and pizza. You will eat a lot of pizza. Because its free and who doesn't love free.

Hell yeah!