Do people here still hate California Northstate?

[Cyberdyne 101]

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┻┳| •.•) Students are poor judges of
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Haven't seen such artwork since the time when ESPN allowed anonymous posters to comment on articles.

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[Goro]

This is a psychological phenomenon known as post-decisional dissonance. Occurs when a person makes an important and potentially irrevocable decision. Because the decision of attending this school has already been made by its students, the only thing they can do is to change their view and beliefs about the school in order to see it in the most positive light possible.

This explains devotees of Der Trumppenfuhrer. We're dealing with emotion/faith based decisions.
I do not begrudge leela's success, but Med Ed had a term for the post: "Northsplaining"

I'm very interested in knowing how many of the inaugural class are now M3s
What was the first time pass rate?

What was the median Step I score?

 

[watermelon master]

Anybody know what the median step score was for the MS3s?

 

[Med Ed]

Anybody know what the median step score was for the MS3s?

Welcome to Lake Wobegon,
where all the women are strong,
all the men are good-looking,
and all the children are above average.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I'm very interested in knowing how many of the inaugural class are now M3s
What was the first time pass rate?

I thought they were just M2s?

 

[watermelon master]

I thought they were just M2s?

No. CNUCOM has been open for 3 school years.

 

[Cherritown]

Median step score 228 for the first class.

 

[Med Ed]

Median step score 228 for the first class.

The average metrics of the first class are reported on CNU's website as 32.2 MCAT and 3.48 GPA. The MCAT was slightly above national average for matriculants, the GPA slightly below. The median Step 1 score now is about 229. So basically their collective performance is exactly what one would predict.

 

[Goro]

Median step score 228 for the first class.

Right about what my kids did, as did most DO students nationwide as well.

Med Ed and I bear no ill will towards CNU students; we wish them well....it's the people running the school who earn our ire, and for good reason.

 

[Med Ed]

Med Ed and I bear no ill will towards CNU students; we wish them well....

Except for that one guy.

 

[Cherritown]

CNU students did on par with national average (228 in 2016) of all students taking USMLE for the 1st time, most of whom I assume are MD students as there are more MD students taking the USMLE. I have no idea what the average is for DO students taking USMLE nationally as there's not much data. Just to clarify how the CNU USMLE scores compares to all medical students, not just DO students as mentioned above.

 

[dardardar]

agree with the previous post. There are only 3 classes so far so there hasn't been a medical graduation - not sure what they are talking about in regards to that.

Current M2 and I absolutely love our school. Checks off all the boxes that I had when researching schools before applying and then some. Our class is full of thoughtful, fun, intelligent people and I know we are going to crush the national average for Step 1 this summer. Can't wait to start rotations and apply the clinical skills I've learned through our Medical Skills course. If anyone has specific questions about curriculum or student life, ask away. I am extremely thankful that I ended up here instead of another school whose orientation I attended and then pulled out at the last minute.

 

[doctor9595]

agree with the previous post. There are only 3 classes so far so there hasn't been a medical graduation - not sure what they are talking about in regards to that.

Current M2 and I absolutely love our school. Checks off all the boxes that I had when researching schools before applying and then some. Our class is full of thoughtful, fun, intelligent people and I know we are going to crush the national average for Step 1 this summer. Can't wait to start rotations and apply the clinical skills I've learned through our Medical Skills course. If anyone has specific questions about curriculum or student life, ask away. I am extremely thankful that I ended up here instead of another school whose orientation I attended and then pulled out at the last minute.

I just got invited for an interview, and honestly got a bit shaken by what I read on this thread. Do you have any thoughts on the school that could reassure me a bit.

 

[IamThatOneGuy]

I just got invited for an interview, and honestly got a bit shaken by what I read on this thread. Do you have any thoughts on the school that could reassure me a bit.

Can you clarify what is shaking you and why?

 

[freak7]

Can you clarify what is shaking you and why?

Try reading the thread?

 

[MedicalDoge]

I just got invited for an interview, and honestly got a bit shaken by what I read on this thread. Do you have any thoughts on the school that could reassure me a bit.

You got invited to interview this late?? wut?? Is this unheard of?

 

[Driven_Docta]

Just an update in regards to our school: according to school administration, the new class of M3's had a MEDIAN STEP 1 score of 238/239 which is pretty dang high, especially for a school that hasn't even had a graduating class yet. So do what you'd like with that information; personally, I think it's very impressive as not many schools had a higher median score than that.

Current M2 here and taking STEP 1 in 9 months so feel free to message me if any questions

 

[Goro]

Just an update in regards to our school: according to school administration, the new class of M3's had a MEDIAN STEP 1 score of 238/239 which is pretty dang high, especially for a school that hasn't even had a graduating class yet. So do what you'd like with that information; personally, I think it's very impressive as not many schools had a higher median score than that.

Current M2 here and taking STEP 1 in 9 months so feel free to message me if any questions

I am personally glad for the success of all CNU students. We do not have anything against the students. It's your Schools administration that we have issues with.

Looking at MSAR, it is clear that your admissions likes people with high mcats. So high step scores are kind of expected from your cohort.

How you match is going to be a black box.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

You should write their PR: "Rocky Vista University: Ten Years of Debt and Derision, One Solid Match."

There have been some recent articles on this phenomenon that may be of interest, including this AP story and this piece in JAMA. They underscore that the perceived threat from for-profit schools does not emanate from individual institutions. Rather, folks are worried about longer-term shifts in the medical education landscape that will ultimately leave a lot of students marginally educated, saddled with debt and diminished residency prospects, and in the process harm traditional not-for-profit medical schools. RVU, CNU, and BCOM are just the canaries in the proverbial coal mine.

This, bolded statement is what this thread is all about. I spent the last 25 years working in a public accounting firm that had a substantial body of so-called "not for profit" clients. The last thing the people in these "not for profit" entities want is to compete with for profit entities. They fear that they will have to be efficient and deliver a service at a reasonable price. They don't want to see their jobs, which are often just taking up time and space, put at risk. The fact that the match list at Rocky Vista drew no substantive comments from the naysayers says it all.

The notion of "not for profit entities" is just a legal and tax hallucination. People who do nothing and draw fat salaries are every bit as greedy as the dart throwers on Wall Street. At least the finance guys are up front about their motives.

 

[Goro]

This, bolded statement is what this thread is all about. I spent the last 25 years working in a public accounting firm that had a substantial body of so-called "not for profit" clients. The last thing the people in these "not for profit" entities want is to compete with for profit entities. They fear that they will have to be efficient and deliver a service at a reasonable price. They don't want to see their jobs, which are often just taking up time and space, put at risk. The fact that the match list at Rocky Vista drew no substantive comments from the naysayers says it all.

The notion of "not for profit entities" is just a legal and tax hallucination. People who do nothing and draw fat salaries are every bit as greedy as the dart throwers on Wall Street. At least the finance guys are up front about their motives.

You seem bitter

 

[Toutie]

You seem bitter

Or just obnoxious.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

This, bolded statement is what this thread is all about. I spent the last 25 years working in a public accounting firm that had a substantial body of so-called "not for profit" clients. The last thing the people in these "not for profit" entities want is to compete with for profit entities. They fear that they will have to be efficient and deliver a service at a reasonable price. They don't want to see their jobs, which are often just taking up time and space, put at risk. The fact that the match list at Rocky Vista drew no substantive comments from the naysayers says it all.

The notion of "not for profit entities" is just a legal and tax hallucination. People who do nothing and draw fat salaries are every bit as greedy as the dart throwers on Wall Street. At least the finance guys are up front about their motives.

Or just obnoxious.

Username checks out I guess.

 

[Med Ed]

This, bolded statement is what this thread is all about. I spent the last 25 years working in a public accounting firm that had a substantial body of so-called "not for profit" clients. The last thing the people in these "not for profit" entities want is to compete with for profit entities. They fear that they will have to be efficient and deliver a service at a reasonable price. They don't want to see their jobs, which are often just taking up time and space, put at risk. The fact that the match list at Rocky Vista drew no substantive comments from the naysayers says it all.

The notion of "not for profit entities" is just a legal and tax hallucination. People who do nothing and draw fat salaries are every bit as greedy as the dart throwers on Wall Street. At least the finance guys are up front about their motives.

A popular college investment promised students a career, but didn't pay off
A federal court gives defrauded Corinthian College students a victory over Betsy DeVos
Feds found widespread fraud at Corinthian Colleges. Why are students still paying the price?
The University of Phoenix's online enrollment plummets while Western Governors and Southern New Hampshire near 100,000 students as they vie to rule the roost
Death of a diploma mill: University of Phoenix going down in flames?
What Trump University was like - according to a former professor
What former employees say ITT Tech did to scam its students
The Flexner Report (1910)

 

[Goro]

A popular college investment promised students a career, but didn't pay off
A federal court give defrauded Corinthian College students a victory over Betsy DeVos
Feds found widespread fraud at Corinthian Colleges. Why are students still paying the price?
The University of Phoenix's online enrollment plummets while Western Governors and Southern New Hampshire near 100,000 students as they vie to rule the roost
Death of a diploma mill: University of Phoenix going down in flames?
What Trump University was like - according to a former professor
What former employees say ITT Tech did to scam its students
The Flexner Report (1910)

Moral of the story, don't mess with the Med Ed!

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

A popular college investment promised students a career, but didn't pay off
A federal court gives defrauded Corinthian College students a victory over Betsy DeVos
Feds found widespread fraud at Corinthian Colleges. Why are students still paying the price?
The University of Phoenix's online enrollment plummets while Western Governors and Southern New Hampshire near 100,000 students as they vie to rule the roost
Death of a diploma mill: University of Phoenix going down in flames?
What Trump University was like - according to a former professor
What former employees say ITT Tech did to scam its students
The Flexner Report (1910)

This proves nothing. The obscene price gouging for higher education and medical care by "not for profit" entities is hardly a track record to be proud of. In the last 40 years on an inflation adjusted basis tuition at private colleges has risen by more than 400%. Private college tuition is rising faster than inflation .... again
This is the result of hiring too many administrators and too many college professors who simply do not want to teach.

In 1960 health care accounted for 5% of the GDP and now it's 18%. This is the product of the medical and nursing professions creating guild systems to keep out competition. Why are out of state students at South Carolina, Illinois and Michigan State being charged $90,000 per year for tuition when the actual average cost (not tuition, stupid) per student at LECOM is $22,000 per year? Why did the nursing establishment close almost all of the 3 year diploma programs which were highly effective and very inexpensive? The answer to both of those questions is the same. They wanted to keep out the competition, artificially drive up salaries and impose an unconscionable burden on the American public.

I am absolutely delighted that you brought up the Flexner report. This masterpiece of delusion was a put up job by a failed prep school director who had no medical training. The whole purpose of the report was to restrict competition. It's been hailed by the medical profession for the last 100 years because it has fattened the incomes of physicians at the expense of the American public and qualified people who would have liked to practice medicine that couldn't.
100 Years of Medical Robbery | Dale Steinreich

 

[Med Ed]

This proves nothing. The obscene price gouging for higher education and medical care by "not for profit" entities is hardly a track record to be proud of. In the last 40 years on an inflation adjusted basis tuition at private colleges has risen by more than 400%. Private college tuition is rising faster than inflation .... again
This is the result of hiring too many administrators and too many college professors who simply do not want to teach.

In 1960 health care accounted for 5% of the GDP and now it's 18%. This is the product of the medical and nursing professions creating guild systems to keep out competition. Why are out of state students at South Carolina, Illinois and Michigan State being charged $90,000 per year for tuition when the actual average cost (not tuition, stupid) per student at LECOM is $22,000 per year? Why did the nursing establishment close almost all of the 3 year diploma programs which were highly effective and very inexpensive? The answer to both of those questions is the same. They wanted to keep out the competition, artificially drive up salaries and impose an unconscionable burden on the American public.

I am absolutely delighted that you brought up the Flexner report. This masterpiece of delusion was a put up job by a failed prep school director who had no medical training. The whole purpose of the report was to restrict competition. It's been hailed by the medical profession for the last 100 years because it has fattened the incomes of physicians at the expense of the American public and qualified people who would have liked to practice medicine that couldn't.
100 Years of Medical Robbery | Dale Steinreich

 

[Goro]

This proves nothing. The obscene price gouging for higher education and medical care by "not for profit" entities is hardly a track record to be proud of. In the last 40 years on an inflation adjusted basis tuition at private colleges has risen by more than 400%. Private college tuition is rising faster than inflation .... again
This is the result of hiring too many administrators and too many college professors who simply do not want to teach.

In 1960 health care accounted for 5% of the GDP and now it's 18%. This is the product of the medical and nursing professions creating guild systems to keep out competition. Why are out of state students at South Carolina, Illinois and Michigan State being charged $90,000 per year for tuition when the actual average cost (not tuition, stupid) per student at LECOM is $22,000 per year? Why did the nursing establishment close almost all of the 3 year diploma programs which were highly effective and very inexpensive? The answer to both of those questions is the same. They wanted to keep out the competition, artificially drive up salaries and impose an unconscionable burden on the American public.

I am absolutely delighted that you brought up the Flexner report. This masterpiece of delusion was a put up job by a failed prep school director who had no medical training. The whole purpose of the report was to restrict competition. It's been hailed by the medical profession for the last 100 years because it has fattened the incomes of physicians at the expense of the American public and qualified people who would have liked to practice medicine that couldn't.
100 Years of Medical Robbery | Dale Steinreich

You sound really bitter.

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

You sound really bitter.

I personally like the cost of medical school being the reason for the 13% jump in healthcare spending.

 

[Goro]

I personally like the cost of medical school being the reason for the 13% jump in healthcare spending.

And closing all the mom and pop medical schools and mandating a curriculum based upon the scientific method and not mere notions is, of course, designed to prevent competition.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I personally like the cost of medical school being the reason for the 13% jump in healthcare spending.

Yeah it has nothing to do with the exponential increase in hospital administrators, lack of preventive medicine for a large portion of the population, etc. It’s the med schools.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

You sound really bitter.

I actually agree with him on the rise in tuition outpacing inflation and the treatment of student loans like criminal debt (not hyperbole). But he has his issues confused.

 

[leela13]

Hi friends,

Four years ago I made the decision to come to CNU because I wanted to get an MD from a California medical school. I also hoped to match in California for residency. On Friday I matched at a California residency program in my favorite city in California. This program is a large academic center that historically does not take IMGs or DOs, so had I not gone to an allopathic school I would have been skipped over for this incredible opportunity. On May 11th I will be graduating with an MD.

In addition to accomplishing these two goals, I had the privilege of shaping a brand new medical school’s curriculum. I also had the privilege of working alongside some of the kindest, smartest, most hard-working individuals I’ve ever met. Being part of a class of 60 at a new medical school is something few people ever get to experience, and I’m so thankful for the opportunity. My classmates (and the CNU faculty and staff) are nothing short of family and I wouldn’t trade the experience I had these past for years for anything. I even met my SO because of CNU.

Prospective medical students are absolutely right to be cautious about a new medical school. If you look back at my posts from 2015 I was just as skeptical. And CNU is farrrr from perfect. But please, please don’t believe everything you read on SDN. I encourage applicants to reach out to current students before making a final decision about CNU.

@Goro and @gyngyn, I think people have appreciated your input on CNU over the years. But I am living, breathing proof that CNU has success stories and I am proud to be one of them.

 

[Goro]

Hi friends,

Four years ago I made the decision to come to CNU because I wanted to get an MD from a California medical school. I also hoped to match in California for residency. On Friday I matched at a California residency program in my favorite city in California. This program is a large academic center that historically does not take IMGs or DOs, so had I not gone to an allopathic school I would have been skipped over for this incredible opportunity. On May 11th I will be graduating with an MD.

In addition to accomplishing these two goals, I had the privilege of shaping a brand new medical school’s curriculum. I also had the privilege of working alongside some of the kindest, smartest, most hard-working individuals I’ve ever met. Being part of a class of 60 at a new medical school is something few people ever get to experience, and I’m so thankful for the opportunity. My classmates (and the CNU faculty and staff) are nothing short of family and I wouldn’t trade the experience I had these past for years for anything. I even met my SO because of CNU.

Prospective medical students are absolutely right to be cautious about a new medical school. If you look back at my posts from 2015 I was just as skeptical. And CNU is farrrr from perfect. But please, please don’t believe everything you read on SDN. I encourage applicants to reach out to current students before making a final decision about CNU.

@Goro and @gyngyn, I think people have appreciated your input on CNU over the years. But I am living, breathing proof that CNU has success stories and I am proud to be one of them.

Leela
We have nothing against CNU students. It's the people running your school we take issue with.

 

[watermelon master]

Hi friends,

Four years ago I made the decision to come to CNU because I wanted to get an MD from a California medical school. I also hoped to match in California for residency. On Friday I matched at a California residency program in my favorite city in California. This program is a large academic center that historically does not take IMGs or DOs, so had I not gone to an allopathic school I would have been skipped over for this incredible opportunity. On May 11th I will be graduating with an MD.

In addition to accomplishing these two goals, I had the privilege of shaping a brand new medical school’s curriculum. I also had the privilege of working alongside some of the kindest, smartest, most hard-working individuals I’ve ever met. Being part of a class of 60 at a new medical school is something few people ever get to experience, and I’m so thankful for the opportunity. My classmates (and the CNU faculty and staff) are nothing short of family and I wouldn’t trade the experience I had these past for years for anything. I even met my SO because of CNU.

Prospective medical students are absolutely right to be cautious about a new medical school. If you look back at my posts from 2015 I was just as skeptical. And CNU is farrrr from perfect. But please, please don’t believe everything you read on SDN. I encourage applicants to reach out to current students before making a final decision about CNU.

@Goro and @gyngyn, I think people have appreciated your input on CNU over the years. But I am living, breathing proof that CNU has success stories and I am proud to be one of them.

How did the rest of your school fare? Is the match list posted somewhere?

 

[leela13]

How did the rest of your school fare? Is the match list posted somewhere?

I think the rest of my classmates are on the whole very happy with where they matched. The school hasn’t sent out the official match list yet but I can post it once we get it.

 

[gyngyn]

I think the rest of my classmates are on the whole very happy with where they matched. The school hasn’t sent out the official match list yet but I can post it once we get it.

I'm glad you did ok.
I have so much sympathy for your classmates who had to SOAP.
You can PM me...

 

[E=1/K]

Hi all,

First time poster on SDN and also a member of the inaugural class at CNUCOM. On Friday, I found out that I matched at my #1 choice - which is a large university hospital in California I'm proud to be one of the many success stories from CNU.

Just wanted to echo @leela13's post and really can't say enough about the amazing experience the past 4 years have been. That being said, were there plenty of bumps along the way? Absolutely. Would I choose to do it again? Absolutely.

The only people that know what it's like to be a medical student at CNUCOM are the medical students at CNUCOM. So, feel free to ask me any questions and I'll do my best to answer.

 

[Goro]

Hi all,

First time poster on SDN and also a member of the inaugural class at CNUCOM. On Friday, I found out that I matched at my #1 choice - which is a large university hospital in California I'm proud to be one of the many success stories from CNU.

Just wanted to echo @leela13's post and really can't say enough about the amazing experience the past 4 years have been. That being said, were there plenty of bumps along the way? Absolutely. Would I choose to do it again? Absolutely.

The only people that know what it's like to be a medical student at CNUCOM are the medical students at CNUCOM. So, feel free to ask me any questions and I'll do my best to answer.

How many of your class didn't match?

 

[leela13]

Hi all,

First time poster on SDN and also a member of the inaugural class at CNUCOM. On Friday, I found out that I matched at my #1 choice - which is a large university hospital in California I'm proud to be one of the many success stories from CNU.

Just wanted to echo @leela13's post and really can't say enough about the amazing experience the past 4 years have been. That being said, were there plenty of bumps along the way? Absolutely. Would I choose to do it again? Absolutely.

The only people that know what it's like to be a medical student at CNUCOM are the medical students at CNUCOM. So, feel free to ask me any questions and I'll do my best to answer.

Love ya so much, buddy .

Also congrats on staying off SDN for so long!

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Over the past couple of years I have had interactions, both directly and indirectly, with some folks who have carnal knowledge of Northstate. It's actually a somewhat pitiable situation. The investors who poured money in at the beginning, perhaps expecting solid returns in perpetuity, seem to have made a grave financial miscalculation. It appears that starting and running an allopathic medical school is more expensive than anticipated (who knew?), and they can only cut so many corners before they risk their accreditation. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to read that the place has simply folded.

I have heard one fairly well-sourced rumor that Kaiser actually offered to buy Northstate's medical school but was turned down. Would love to know more details, if true.

tl;dr Just don't do it.

I wonder what the hell happens to you if you are enrolled at a medical school like Northstate and the medical school goes belly up: are you just SOL at that point?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I wonder what the hell happens to you if you are enrolled at a medical school like Northstate and the medical school goes belly up: are you just SOL at that point?

There have been a few threads on this, and I think it’s only happened a couple times. You can search, but I think the consensus is that other schools typically will absorb the students but aren’t required to.

 

[erure]

http://medicine.cnsu.edu/shareddocs/Academic/2019-Match-Results.pdf

 

[Goro]

http://medicine.cnsu.edu/shareddocs/Academic/2019-Match-Results.pdf

I congratulate the students on their successes.

 

[wysdoc]

How many of your class didn't match?

I count 57 places on that match list linked above, so if the class size is still 60, maybe 3 didn't match?

 

[gyngyn]

I count 57 places on that match list linked above, so if the class size is still 60, maybe 3 didn't match?

Schools are allowed to consider SOAP matches in published Match lists.
Their students are still to be congratulated (even if their administration is not).

 

[Med Ed]

I am curious as to how their lenders have structured repayment during residency/fellowship.

 

[watermelon master]

And also 9 prelims

 

[Faha]

I count 57 places on that match list linked above, so if the class size is still 60, maybe 3 didn't match?

Since this is the first graduating class it is more likely that those 3 are students who
#1 Repeated a year due to academic reasons and have not graduated yet.
#2 May be doing research or other medical related activity for 1 or more years.
#3 Leave of absence due to health or other reasons
#4 May be going into an area of medicine that does not require a residency (pharmaceutical industry, teaching, etc )

 

[carpeomnious]

There are some minor inaccuracies on the list. For example, there were 2 people that matched IM at Kaiser Santa Clara and 2 people that matched prelim surgery at UC Davis. Students did notify the admin, so hopefully they'll update the list.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

http://medicine.cnsu.edu/shareddocs/Academic/2019-Match-Results.pdf

No offense but this match list is terrible. I can count maybe 4-6 good programs on this list at most. I have no horse in this race but just calling it like it is. There are about ~5-7 prelims (I'm conservatively guesstimating that a few of these prelims are for those in advanced categoricals like neurology or anesthesia, and because it's the same institutions listed twice in thee cases). Functionally speaking, a prelim without an advanced match is not a match. One of the anesthesia programs didn't fill the most recent 2 consecutive years so the match could easily be scramble. Not to be down on anyone, like I said, just calling it like it is.