DO Schools Grade Replacement GONE- Alternatives?

[MissDoctorLady]

Hello,

I wanted to start a thread for any advice or alternatives for those of us who were depending on Grade Replacement GPA calculation offered by AACOMAS. Albeit, at this point I'm heart broken so I have no problem dropping my poor scores. Thanks for your honesty and advice!

Age: 26
Non-traditional student. Graduated with a 2.75 and Bachelors in Psychology and Biology.
Wasn't focused at community college for several semesters, failed out.
Averaged GPA: 2.2
Science GPA: 2.1

Upward Trend, redid all my prerequisites and was going to be finishing up 2 classes this semester
Grade Replacement GPA (would be): 3.45
Science GPA(would be): 3.40

Set to take the MCAT June 1st

1,000+ hrs volunteer work, several trips abroad teaching.
100+ hrs shadowing

Any advice, or alternatives? Or should I just let the dream go and work in Public Health. (I currently work in this field but am unsatisfied, *sigh*)

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[roaringunicorn]

Hello,

I wanted to start a thread for any advice or alternatives for those of us who were depending on Grade Replacement GPA calculation offered by AACOMAS. Albeit, at this point I'm heart broken so I have no problem dropping my poor scores. Thanks for your honesty and advice!

Age: 26
Non-traditional student. Graduated with a 2.75 and Bachelors in Psychology and Biology.
Wasn't focused at community college for several semesters, failed out.
Averaged GPA: 2.2
Science GPA: 2.1

Upward Trend, redid all my prerequisites and was going to be finishing up 2 classes this semester
Grade Replacement GPA (would be): 3.45
Science GPA(would be): 3.40

Set to take the MCAT June 1st

1,000+ hrs volunteer work, several trips abroad teaching.
100+ hrs shadowing

Any advice, or alternatives? Or should I just let the dream go and work in Public Health. (I currently work in this field but am unsatisfied, *sigh*)

Do masters

 

[Shotapp]

What is your total combined cumulative GPA and science GPAs from all the schools you attended?

 

[MissDoctorLady]

I believe a 2.34(gpa) and a 2.2(science gpa). There were many Cs. ugh!
Lol It was too good to be true!

 

[naivePremed]

I feel for you. My sGPA dropped from 3.20 to a 2.85 without replacement. ouch!

 

[Promethean]

So, stop assuming that you have to compete against a pool of applicants who are in a different boat than you. This rule change applies to everyone. There are a lot of folks who thought they were going to retake their way to victory, who now need to re-evaluate strategy.

Retakes may still help you. If you bombed a pre-req, you should re-take it. Community college is probably fine. Just do it and get an A.

Every extra 4.0 credit you do is one more into the calculation. Blast through a few. Take courses that interest you, that you can do well in, that will prepare you for medical school curriculum... basically, what you were going to need to do anyway to fix a 2.75. You might need to take a few more than you would have otherwise... but maybe not. Again, remember there are a lot of people in the same boat. And there aren't thousands of people with high GPAs who were just waiting to swoop in and take your spots.

You are every bit in this game as you ever were. Keep your eyes on your goal and keep working toward it. That is how you get in.

 

[impervious0ne]

So, stop assuming that you have to compete against a pool of applicants who are in a different boat than you. This rule change applies to everyone. There are a lot of folks who thought they were going to retake their way to victory, who now need to re-evaluate strategy.

Retakes may still help you. If you bombed a pre-req, you should re-take it. Community college is probably fine. Just do it and get an A.

Every extra 4.0 credit you do is one more into the calculation. Blast through a few. Take courses that interest you, that you can do well in, that will prepare you for medical school curriculum... basically, what you were going to need to do anyway to fix a 2.75. You might need to take a few more than you would have otherwise... but maybe not. Again, remember there are a lot of people in the same boat. And there aren't thousands of people with high GPAs who were just waiting to swoop in and take your spots.

You are every bit in this game as you ever were. Keep your eyes on your goal and keep working toward it. That is how you get in.

I dunno, after 140+ credits, it takes obscene amount of A's to even get your GPA past the 3.0 screens.

 

[Frogger27]

How many credits of post bacc work have you done? The fact you are a non-traditional student who is years removed from failing out of CC will help. If you show ~2 years of improved coursework and score well on the MCAT you will stand a solid chance

 

[Promethean]

I dunno, after 140+ credits, it takes obscene amount of A's to even get your GPA past the 3.0 screens.

If someone skated through 140 credits on a steady C average then it isn't unjust to ask them to do an obscene amount of credits at the 4.0 level to establish that they aren't really just mediocre students. Sorry, if you phoned it in for an entire degree, you didn't really accomplish what you needed to do to be prepared for medical school. How bad do you want it? Bad enough to do the work? If not, then it isn't a bad thing to admit that before you are faced with the work load and time pressures of med school and graduate medical education. There isn't a time limit. If it takes you an extra year or two, then it does. Do you want it that bad?

Also, the 3.0 screen isn't going to be able to stay at 3.0. If so many people who were counting on grade replacement now have to just go with the straight average, the screens are going to have to come down. Or there won't be enough applicants to fill the seats. No new pool of applicants are being created. This is just a change in how one stat is calculated, and it is a change that is going to be applied to everyone. Don't compare yourself to the GPAs of people before the change.

 

[SurgDoc95]

If someone skated through 140 credits on a steady C average then it isn't unjust to ask them to do an obscene amount of credits at the 4.0 level to establish that they aren't really just mediocre students. Sorry, if you phoned it in for an entire degree, you didn't really accomplish what you needed to do to be prepared for medical school. How bad do you want it? Bad enough to do the work? If not, then it isn't a bad thing to admit that before you are faced with the work load and time pressures of med school and graduate medical education. There isn't a time limit. If it takes you an extra year or two, then it does. Do you want it that bad?

Also, the 3.0 screen isn't going to be able to stay at 3.0. If so many people were counting on grade replacement now have to just go with the straight average, the screens are going to have to come down. Or there won't be enough applicants to fill the seats. No new pool of applicants are being created. This is just a change in how one stat is calculated, and it is a change that is going to be applied to everyone. Don't compare yourself to the GPAs of people before the change.

This is absolutely spot on bravo!

 

[Turkishking]

Post-bacc or SMP.
I'm not sure about the masters.

 

[psu228]

You don't have to give up. Having had the bad grades a couple years ago helps you a lot. On paper, your gpas are obviously weak, but the fact that you retook all the pre reqs bodes very well for you. Do you have any idea what your GPA is in the core pre reqs? Your background in healthcare will also be a big help.

With the grade replacement gone you need to be open for SMPs or taking more upper division courses next year IF you don't get in anywhere this year. I know that stinks but it also means that the door isn't shut on you permanently.

No one has any clue how the DO schools are gonna respond to this. In the official AACOM email I got it said DO schools are free to still do grade replacement. Whether they will or not, idk. I kind of doubt it. But what I honestly believe will happen is a lot of the DO schools, with the exception of a pcom or a ccom or a nova, will do away with their screens or will devote extra time into considering apps that are screened out (under the old system, even if your app was screened out it was reviewed once by a human being before being completely disregarded). With this in mind, all your hard work will still matter!

Even with this change, DO schools aren't going to suddenly shed their identity as an opportunity for people to get into health care later in life or to remake themselves. I just refuse to believe that all the DO schools will suddenly start disregarding non trads like yourself who took HUGE risks and sacrifices to make yourself into a competitive applicant.

I honestly probably benefit slightly from this change. I had retaken too C pre reqs with As but my cGPA and sGPA are still in the 3.4-3.6 range. My point in saying that is this isn't wishful thinking on my part. Based on what I've read in the past 24 hours (basically everything on here with special attention to the faculty on this site) I really believe the above and believe you still have a shot.

Apply broadly. Apply to the new schools. If you work hard there you can still get a residency you desire. Good luck!

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I'm sorry to have to say this to you. I understand how everyone wants to give you hope, but if your GPA is really a 2.3/2.2, it is time to plan for an alternative career.

 

[Shotapp]

I'm sorry to have to say this to you. I understand how everyone wants to give you hope, but if your GPA is really a 2.3/2.2, it is time to plan for an alternative career.

Sad but true.

 

[impervious0ne]

If someone skated through 140 credits on a steady C average then it isn't unjust to ask them to do an obscene amount of credits at the 4.0 level to establish that they aren't really just mediocre students. Sorry, if you phoned it in for an entire degree, you didn't really accomplish what you needed to do to be prepared for medical school. How bad do you want it? Bad enough to do the work? If not, then it isn't a bad thing to admit that before you are faced with the work load and time pressures of med school and graduate medical education. There isn't a time limit. If it takes you an extra year or two, then it does. Do you want it that bad?

Also, the 3.0 screen isn't going to be able to stay at 3.0. If so many people who were counting on grade replacement now have to just go with the straight average, the screens are going to have to come down. Or there won't be enough applicants to fill the seats. No new pool of applicants are being created. This is just a change in how one stat is calculated, and it is a change that is going to be applied to everyone. Don't compare yourself to the GPAs of people before the change.

Maybe I am just being sensitive, but I am not sure why you're irate. I am not disagreeing with you. OP's case wasn't that she was skating on C's but rather multiple F's that doomed her early academic career. I was simply musing on the herculean effort required to get her application to borderline competitive numbers.


Just out of curiosity, how do we know that screen won't stay at 3.0? Information from other post shows that grade replacement policy had very minimal impact on overall GPA of the applicants (0.01 for science and 0.03 for non-science gpa on a 4.0 scale).

 

[SurgDoc95]

Maybe I am just being sensitive, but I am not sure why you're irate. I am not disagreeing with you. OP's case wasn't that she was skating on C's but rather multiple F's that doomed her early academic career. I was simply musing on the herculean effort required to get her application to borderline competitive numbers.


Just out of curiosity, how do we know that screen won't stay at 3.0? Information from other post shows that grade replacement policy had very minimal impact on overall GPA of the applicants (0.01 for science and 0.03 for non-science gpa on a 4.0 scale).

People are guessing and hoping tbh.

 

[Goro]

Ace a DIY post-bac or an SMP.

Hello,

I wanted to start a thread for any advice or alternatives for those of us who were depending on Grade Replacement GPA calculation offered by AACOMAS. Albeit, at this point I'm heart broken so I have no problem dropping my poor scores. Thanks for your honesty and advice!

Age: 26
Non-traditional student. Graduated with a 2.75 and Bachelors in Psychology and Biology.
Wasn't focused at community college for several semesters, failed out.
Averaged GPA: 2.2
Science GPA: 2.1

Upward Trend, redid all my prerequisites and was going to be finishing up 2 classes this semester
Grade Replacement GPA (would be): 3.45
Science GPA(would be): 3.40

Set to take the MCAT June 1st

1,000+ hrs volunteer work, several trips abroad teaching.
100+ hrs shadowing

Any advice, or alternatives? Or should I just let the dream go and work in Public Health. (I currently work in this field but am unsatisfied, *sigh*)

 

[Dr.Kitty]

If someone skated through 140 credits on a steady C average then it isn't unjust to ask them to do an obscene amount of credits at the 4.0 level to establish that they aren't really just mediocre students. Sorry, if you phoned it in for an entire degree, you didn't really accomplish what you needed to do to be prepared for medical school. How bad do you want it? Bad enough to do the work? If not, then it isn't a bad thing to admit that before you are faced with the work load and time pressures of med school and graduate medical education. There isn't a time limit. If it takes you an extra year or two, then it does. Do you want it that bad?

Also, the 3.0 screen isn't going to be able to stay at 3.0. If so many people who were counting on grade replacement now have to just go with the straight average, the screens are going to have to come down. Or there won't be enough applicants to fill the seats. No new pool of applicants are being created. This is just a change in how one stat is calculated, and it is a change that is going to be applied to everyone. Don't compare yourself to the GPAs of people before the change.

In 2015, there were 52,550 applicants and only 20,630 actually were accepted and able to enroll into medical school. I really doubt there won't be enough applicants to knock off the people that were blindsided by this. I also don't think this screen will go away. Medical schools are going to keep going on with admissions like nothing happened. It's sad, but it's just really delusional to believe we're going to start seeing a bigger amount of 2.0s start walking into medical school because somehow DO schools are trying to avoid the effects of this grade replacement change. They have enough to worry about, things are going to just move on.

 

[anatomyyay]

@Goro Do DO schools look more positively on one or the other when it comes to SMP versus DIY post-baccs? I'm sorry if this question has been asked before. I've been doing a DIY post-bacc while working FT and without grade replacement am standing at about a 2.95 cumulative and science GPA but my DIY post-bacc GPA is a 4.0 with several A+s. However, if SMPs are looked at more favorably, I would like to go that route.

 

[rayeray]

people usually have really bad things to say about the Caribbean , but the Caribbean is also a shot.

Again, i do not know anything about Caribbean not have a researched, so please do not hate me for suggesting it, just trying to find alternatives (as i am in a similar situation)

 

[darkeon]

Does post bacc at a CC now have any merit?

 

[SurgDoc95]

Does post bacc at a CC now have any merit?

Forgive my ignorance but do CCs have upper level science courses?

 

[Alienman52]

Hello,

I wanted to start a thread for any advice or alternatives for those of us who were depending on Grade Replacement GPA calculation offered by AACOMAS. Albeit, at this point I'm heart broken so I have no problem dropping my poor scores. Thanks for your honesty and advice!

Age: 26
Non-traditional student. Graduated with a 2.75 and Bachelors in Psychology and Biology.
Wasn't focused at community college for several semesters, failed out.
Averaged GPA: 2.2
Science GPA: 2.1

Upward Trend, redid all my prerequisites and was going to be finishing up 2 classes this semester
Grade Replacement GPA (would be): 3.45
Science GPA(would be): 3.40

Set to take the MCAT June 1st

1,000+ hrs volunteer work, several trips abroad teaching.
100+ hrs shadowing

Any advice, or alternatives? Or should I just let the dream go and work in Public Health. (I currently work in this field but am unsatisfied, *sigh*)

There are a few other threads outlining what to do now that grade replacement is gone, take a look at those. In a nutshell, acing a formal postbacc or SMP seems like the best course of action as of now.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[roxasblade]

Golden West and OCC in Orange County has Pathophysiology, Pharmacology, Biochemistry, Molecular Biology, and Genetics. So yeah I think they do have upper divisions.

 

[SurgDoc95]

Golden West and OCC in Orange County has Pathophysiology, Pharmacology, Biochemistry, Molecular Biology, and Genetics. So yeah I think they do have upper divisions.

Wasn't putting city colleges down I simply didn't know!

 

[psu228]

Most community colleges don't have upper division courses. I'm not knocking them AT ALL, I re took gen chem 1 at a CC and it was just as challenging as it was at my top 15 public school.

I still think that retaking Cs in your core pre reqs is worthwhile. Yes, it doesn't have the same impact on your GPA and you really need to ace it or it won't look good. But I know allopathic schools look favorably on retakes (rather than just letting a C stand) so I'm sure DO schools will also.

So I guess what I'm getting at is a combo of DIY post bacc with a CC for the pre reqs you did poorly in and an SMP. If the OP does an SMP and knocks in out of the park and couples it with a good MCAT score, I think they will get in somewhere.

 

[68PGunner]

Do a two year SMP and then take the MCAT. If your SMP and MCAT are competitive, you should only apply to MDs. LOL. Easy decision there.

 

[DrBelle]

Will someone tell me a bit more about SMPs? I don't understand why people keep saying that when all of the ones I looked up had 3.0 minimum GPAs. If the whole issue with not applying is having less than a 3.0, how is applying for an SMP which has the same requirement helpful?

Please let me know if some of these programs exist. I know in my state, if you graduate, its hard to even get into the classes we need. But you can try.

 

[MissDoctorLady]

Hello guys! Thanks for the responses!
I hate to open a thread and abandon it, but I just got off work.

For clarification on my situation-
I didn't actually just skate by. Unfortunately, I wasted time and opportunity, and did extremely poorly my first two semesters! I started taking my prereqs immediately, as I took many AP classes in hs. I'm sure it's not hard to figure out, average a 4.0 with a 0.0 and you'll get a C average. I actually served as a teaching assistant for several of the courses, ironically. I guess I should have mentioned my college gpa may be a bit deflated as we have the +/- scale. I would have to reconfigure it by the aacomas scale.

Maybe a master's program is my only choice. I definitely don't want to do a SMP where I end up taking the prereqs for a third time. I spent the past 18 months doing that lol.
It really sucks I wasted so much time and money without any forewarning. I would've stopped at a 3.3gpa and applied in June.


Yes, community colleges (some) have upper level science courses. My community college has immunology, genetics, bioinformatics, biochemistry, molecular biology, etc etc. It's actually pretty awesome!

 

[Spectreman]

Hello guys! Thanks for the responses!
I hate to open a thread and abandon it, but I just got off work.

For clarification on my situation-
I didn't actually just skate by. Unfortunately, I wasted time and opportunity, and did extremely poorly my first two semesters! I started taking my prereqs immediately, as I took many AP classes in hs. I'm sure it's not hard to figure out, average a 4.0 with a 0.0 and you'll get a C average. I actually served as a teaching assistant for several of the courses, ironically. I guess I should have mentioned my college gpa may be a bit deflated as we have the +/- scale. I would have to reconfigure it by the aacomas scale.

Maybe a master's program is my only choice. I definitely don't want to do a SMP where I end up taking the prereqs for a third time. I spent the past 18 months doing that lol.
It really sucks I wasted so much time and money without any forewarning. I would've stopped at a 3.3gpa and applied in June.


Yes, community colleges (some) have upper level science courses. My community college has immunology, genetics, bioinformatics, biochemistry, molecular biology, etc etc. It's actually pretty awesome!

Don't give up. Take your MCAT, do very well on it. Jump into an SMP at a DO school and get a 4.0! You can still do this, don't listen to the nay Sayers. I'm in your same situation except I'm starting the second semester of an SMP, did a year of post-bacc. I also went through academic suspension. They'll see your upward trend and if you Ace their SMP, which includes med school classes, they'll have no reason not to take you. Also, if that doesn't work you can still go Caribbean. It's not as horrible as people here make it sound, you just have to be ready to work harder than you ever have and don't be hung-up on not being an orthopod. DM me if you wanna chat, I'm in the MS Mentoring Program at my school if you have any questions about going the SMP route.

GOOD LUCK!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Promethean]

In 2015, there were 52,550 applicants and only 20,630 actually were accepted and able to enroll into medical school. I really doubt there won't be enough applicants to knock off the people that were blindsided by this. I also don't think this screen will go away. Medical schools are going to keep going on with admissions like nothing happened. It's sad, but it's just really delusional to believe we're going to start seeing a bigger amount of 2.0s start walking into medical school because somehow DO schools are trying to avoid the effects of this grade replacement change. They have enough to worry about, things are going to just move on.

I don't think that 2.0s are going to waltz into DO schools en masse. But probably the screen will need to fall a point or two because this is something that affects SO MANY applicants.

But... a major inducement for people who don't really want to be DOs to apply to Osteopathic schools is going away. So, fewer of those 52k applicants will be vying for those seats now. That is going to mean that if they were previously screening out everyone who didn't have a 3.0, they aren't going to have enough folks applying (that they would want, that don't have other red flags, etc) to fill their seats without letting a few more 2.9s and 2.8s through the screen.

 

[Promethean]

For clarification on my situation-
I didn't actually just skate by. Unfortunately, I wasted time and opportunity, and did extremely poorly my first two semesters! I started taking my prereqs immediately, as I took many AP classes in hs. I'm sure it's not hard to figure out, average a 4.0 with a 0.0 and you'll get a C average.

I can say this as an accomplished skater myself... A transcript of As and Fs that average to Cs is still skating. It isn't a record that screams "Trust me to come to your school where failing a couple of courses might be all it takes to end any hope of graduation!"

You don't *have* to do a masters. You can, especially if there is something that interests you. You are now in a situation where you just need credits, and a lot of them, and all of them As. If there is a Masters program out there that will let you pull that off, right on. I'm always in favor of the fastest, cheapest, most effective option, though. I earned 60 credits of 3.9 GPA in 1 calendar year at a community college. I needed to, because I was bringing up a 1.37 from my freshman year of college. Most of the rest of my undergrad was either P/F or credit by exam (so no effect on GPA) or the 3.8 I got in nursing school (no effect on GPA because of the way diplomate nursing schools are accredited.) I maxed out the credits I was allowed to take each semester and got up above a 3.3 without using grade replacement. So, when I say it can be done, it is because I know what I'm talking about.

 

[Dr.Kitty]

I don't think that 2.0s are going to waltz into DO schools en masse. But probably the screen will need to fall a point or two because this is something that affects SO MANY applicants.

But... a major inducement for people who don't really want to be DOs to apply to Osteopathic schools is going away. So, fewer of those 52k applicants will be vying for those seats now. That is going to mean that if they were previously screening out everyone who didn't have a 3.0, they aren't going to have enough folks applying (that they would want, that don't have other red flags, etc) to fill their seats without letting a few more 2.9s and 2.8s through the screen.

Even if it were to fall a point or two, which I really doubt will happen, OP's GPA of 2.34 after two majors and retaken pre-reqs means she will not make the "dropped" cut off you're talking about. I don't think people will stop applying to DO schools either, at the end of the day the majority of the people who have been doing grade replacement are either going to do SMP and apply both MD and DO or take more classes and still apply MD and DO. That doesn't change.

 

[Promethean]

Again... if you rocked a 2.0 average for 120 credits, it is going to take another 120 credits at 4.0 to make that a 3.0. Adjust as needed for the result desired.

Also, again, if someone did demonstrate for 120 credits worth of a degree that a 2.0 was the level of academic performance they were able to achieve, then it isn't unreasonable to expect them to put in that many more doing what they should have done in the first place. That might mean another couple of years of effort on top of what OP has already done.

So, it just becomes about whether it is worth that or not.

OP definitely has a hill to climb if she wants in. But it can be done.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Again... if you rocked a 2.0 average for 120 credits, it is going to take another 120 credits at 4.0 to make that a 3.0. Adjust as needed for the result desired.

Also, again, if someone did demonstrate for 120 credits worth of a degree that a 2.0 was the level of academic performance they were able to achieve, then it isn't unreasonable to expect them to put in that many more doing what they should have done in the first place. That might mean another couple of years of effort on top of what OP has already done.

So, it just becomes about whether it is worth that or not.

OP definitely has a hill to climb if she wants in. But it can be done.

I don't agree. You don't need a total of 120 new credits to show you have the capacity you didn't many years back. Much of any bachelor's degree is also general ed fluff and stuff that has no relevance to performing well on medical school. As a society I don't think we should want to punish people and delay their possibility to become physicians if they can show the capacity sooner. However, these are just my thoughts and unfortunately not the way it'll be.

 

[Promethean]

I don't agree. You don't need a total of 120 new credits to show you have the capacity you didn't many years back. Much of any bachelor's degree is also general ed fluff and stuff that has no relevance to performing well on medical school. As a society I don't think we should want to punish people and delay their possibility to become physicians if they can show the capacity sooner. However, these are just my thoughts and unfortunately not the way it'll be.

So much the worse if you couldn't pull better than a 2.0 on that gen ed fluff.

Success in medical school and in a career as a physician requires more than just being able to do well in hard science courses. You have to be someone who shows up and keeps showing up, even when it gets hard, even when you'd rather not, even when you don't think what is required of you is important or career-furthering.

Grade replacement was a mercy and a luxury that MD applicants didn't have. Subjecting DO applicants to the same rules as MD applicants isn't punishing them. I do think that it would have been nice if they'd given an explicit two year heads up so that people who had already invested in retakes wouldn't be caught by surprise... but I can see that there have been threads here talking about the possibility of grade replacement going away here in the past, including within the last couple of years. The rules can and do change.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

So much the worse if you couldn't pull better than a 2.0 on that gen ed fluff.

Success in medical school and in a career as a physician requires more than just being able to do well in hard science courses. You have to be someone who shows up and keeps showing up, even when it gets hard, even when you'd rather not, even when you don't think what is required of you is important or career-furthering.

Grade replacement was a mercy and a luxury that MD applicants didn't have. Subjecting DO applicants to the same rules as MD applicants isn't punishing them. I do think that it would have been nice if they'd given an explicit two year heads up so that people who had already invested in retakes wouldn't be caught by surprise... but I can see that there have been threads here talking about the possibility of grade replacement going away here in the past, including within the last couple of years. The rules can and do change.

Implicit in what you write is that the 2.0 happened due to laziness. Unfortunately, life happens, and many young people even rely on financial aid to survive.

Success in medical school and your career does require the things you say, but your assumption is that these people won't be able to do this. I don't think that's right. Grade replacement made it easier to get to the finishing line, and there is no evidence that these students magically just became lazy in medical school or their career.

Yes, it was a "luxury" to have grade replacement, but it was also a holistic tool that opened the door to candidate that otherwise would be shut out in their entirety. Even if not ideal to do poorly in the beginning and having to retake, there's something gained from that experience. Considering our career will involve patients from backgrounds that are disadvantaged or fail the 1st, 2nd, etc. time to accomplish their medical goals, it's actually good when we have someone that can relate to reinventing yourself. It simply hurts the profession to have closed this door just to appear similar to MDs.

 

[Promethean]

Implicit in what you write is that the 2.0 happened due to laziness. Unfortunately, life happens, and many young people even rely on financial aid to survive.

Success in medical school and your career does require the things you say, but your assumption is that these people won't be able to do this. I don't think that's right. Grade replacement made it easier to get to the finishing line, and there is no evidence that these students magically just became lazy in medical school or their career.

Yes, it was a "luxury" to have grade replacement, but it was also a holistic tool that opened the door to candidate that otherwise would be shut out in their entirety. Even if not ideal to do poorly in the beginning and having to retake, there's something gained from that experience. Considering our career will involve patients from backgrounds that are disadvantaged or fail the 1st, 2nd, etc. time to accomplish their medical goals, it's actually good when we have someone that can relate to reinventing yourself. It simply hurts the profession to have closed this door just to appear similar to MDs.

I know that you aren't aware of how profoundly disadvantaged my background was, or else you wouldn't try that argument with me. I was actually homeless my first year of college, and I earned a 1.37 GPA during my first attempt at a degree. I mean homeless, like I slept in cemeteries (no one bothers you there!) and inside closed post offices (you can get in to the ones where people have afterhours access to their PO Boxes, and they are warm and safe compared to the streets) and walked to class in shoes with holes in the soles. It took me 15 years longer than it "should have" to get into medical school, so I definitely get it that people can have external factors working against them. (BTW, I didn't use grade replacement to get my eventual GPA up above 3.3. Just the flood of 4.0 credits that I advocate.) So, I'm not sure that there is anyone better qualified to speak about reinvention than I.

I didn't say that the 2.0 happened due to laziness. There are a host of possible factors that could have contributed to that lackluster performance. Most of them are also likely to predict poor performance in medical school as well. Putting in the work necessary to raise a GPA isn't just about improving a number or proving to the school that the student isn't a lazy screw up like they were when they started... it is about ensuring that the student is genuinely capable and prepared to do well in medical school. It is in the best interest of the students not to allow them into a setting where they cannot succeed because they are unprepared.

Limits aren't just there to be cruel and exclusive. My main criticism of the Caribbean schools is that their failure to set standards mean that many students who are not adequately prepared to succeed are admitted, with the plan to harrow out the lowest performers after taking a great deal of their money. That is no kindness to them. Such students may have been delighted to have been accepted there, despite their low stats, but they end up wishing that they had not been, when they end up hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt with no degree / no residency. Being delayed a little and forced to prepare better might have spared them that outcome.

Grade replacement has been an inducement for people with no interest in Osteopathic medicine to flock to DO schools. Removing that inducement will lower the number of applicants who don't really want to practice Osteopathic medicine. That is good for the profession.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I know that you aren't aware of how profoundly disadvantaged my background was, or else you wouldn't try that argument with me. I was actually homeless my first year of college, and I earned a 1.37 GPA during my first attempt at a degree. I mean homeless, like I slept in cemeteries (no one bothers you there!) and inside closed post offices (you can get in to the ones where people have afterhours access to their PO Boxes, and they are warm and safe compared to the streets) and walked to class in shoes with holes in the soles. It took me 15 years longer than it "should have" to get into medical school, so I definitely get it that people can have external factors working against them. (BTW, I didn't use grade replacement to get my eventual GPA up above 3.3. Just the flood of 4.0 credits that I advocate.) So, I'm not sure that there is anyone better qualified to speak about reinvention than I.

I didn't say that the 2.0 happened due to laziness. There are a host of possible factors that could have contributed to that lackluster performance. Most of them are also likely to predict poor performance in medical school as well. Putting in the work necessary to raise a GPA isn't just about improving a number or proving to the school that the student isn't a lazy screw up like they were when they started... it is about ensuring that the student is genuinely capable and prepared to do well in medical school. It is in the best interest of the students not to allow them into a setting where they cannot succeed because they are unprepared.

Limits aren't just there to be cruel and exclusive. My main criticism of the Caribbean schools is that their failure to set standards mean that many students who are not adequately prepared to succeed are admitted, with the plan to harrow out the lowest performers after taking a great deal of their money. That is no kindness to them. Such students may have been delighted to have been accepted there, despite their low stats, but they end up wishing that they had not been, when they end up hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt with no degree / no residency. Being delayed a little and forced to prepare better might have spared them that outcome.

Grade replacement has been an inducement for people with no interest in Osteopathic medicine to flock to DO schools. Removing that inducement will lower the number of applicants who don't really want to practice Osteopathic medicine. That is good for the profession.

I'm sorry those things happened to you. I had many challenges beyond those of the normal applicant but not as dire as yours, so in some ways I can relate. However, don't you believe that if you had the capacity then there was no reason to put you through 15 years of trouble to get there? And again, it all boils down to there being an inherent assumption in your argument that grade replacement people can't make it and the only way they can prove they can is by doing averaging of grades. Only thing you've accomplished is closing the door to some people that would have been great physicians but can't spend 4+ years of grade averaging and then an SMP to be competitive.

As for interest in osteopathic medicine, that's entirely meaningless. Very few people have a genuine interest in it, and they will continue attending DO schools as long as they don't get an US MD acceptance regardless of grade replacement existing. With the merger, the profession is dead except by name and a few physicians. That will soon go too when everyone can get MD and OMM becomes CME or incorporated into combined FM/OMM residencies.

 

[Promethean]

I'm sorry those things happened to you. I had many challenges beyond those of the normal applicant but not as dire as yours, so in some ways I can relate. However, don't you believe that if you had the capacity then there was no reason to put you through 15 years of trouble to get there? And again, it all boils down to there being an inherent assumption in your argument that grade replacement people can't make it and the only way they can prove they can is by doing averaging of grades. Only thing you've accomplished is closing the door to some people that would have been great physicians but can't spend 4+ years of grade averaging and then an SMP to be competitive.

As for interest in osteopathic medicine, that's entirely meaningless. Very few people have a genuine interest in it, and they will continue attending DO schools as long as they don't get an US MD acceptance regardless of grade replacement existing. With the merger, the profession is dead except by name and a few physicians. That will soon go too when everyone can get MD and OMM becomes CME or incorporated into combined FM/OMM residencies.

One of the most important things that my path has taught me was to get used to having to compete with people who didn't have the same challenges. It doesn't get any easier the further along you get. Yes, I do believe that it would have been marvelous for it to have been a little easier to get here, and I do sometimes mourn the lost time... but then I find myself sitting in front of a 22 year old physician's kid who has never been hungry a day in his life who says things like "Gosh, maybe I should get a part time job... you know, just for a couple of weeks, to see what that is like." And that reminds me that those years of "delay" weren't spent just getting older and waiting. There were experiences in there that were valuable and necessary to get me to where I am. So, yeah, that does make me believe in a little bit of dues paying.

But this is a problem that will solve itself. If there aren't enough qualified applicants with great GPAs, then adcoms will look at the ones with merely mediocre GPAs. The only people who are really being shut out are those with what were already highly unfavorable academic records. Repair isn't out of their reach, even if they do have to reach a little further than they would have before.

There are always newer schools or ones that don't have a screen.

I'm sorry to find that I also disagree with you about osteopathic medicine being dead. I went to an FM conference this fall where MDs were showing a lot of interest in learning OMM techniques. It was an MD who told me to go to a DO school, because she felt she had missed out on getting to learn OMM. And there are two MDs doing an OMM fellowship with our school right now. Osteopathic manipulative medicine works. We have tools in our kit that are valuable and that we can share with the rest of the medical profession, so that we can all use them to help patients. The merger was inevitable. It is up to us to keep sharing what we have to offer.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

One of the most important things that my path has taught me was to get used to having to compete with people who didn't have the same challenges. It doesn't get any easier the further along you get. Yes, I do believe that it would have been marvelous for it to have been a little easier to get here, and I do sometimes mourn the lost time... but then I find myself sitting in front of a 22 year old physician's kid who has never been hungry a day in his life who says things like "Gosh, maybe I should get a part time job... you know, just for a couple of weeks, to see what that is like." And that reminds me that those years of "delay" weren't spent just getting older and waiting. There were experiences in there that were valuable and necessary to get me to where I am. So, yeah, that does make me believe in a little bit of dues paying.

But this is a problem that will solve itself. If there aren't enough qualified applicants with great GPAs, then adcoms will look at the ones with merely mediocre GPAs. The only people who are really being shut out are those with what were already highly unfavorable academic records. Repair isn't out of their reach, even if they do have to reach a little further than they would have before.

There are always newer schools or ones that don't have a screen.

I'm sorry to find that I also disagree with you about osteopathic medicine being dead. I went to an FM conference this fall where MDs were showing a lot of interest in learning OMM techniques. It was an MD who told me to go to a DO school, because she felt she had missed out on getting to learn OMM. And there are two MDs doing an OMM fellowship with our school right now. Osteopathic manipulative medicine works. We have tools in our kit that are valuable and that we can share with the rest of the medical profession, so that we can all use them to help patients. The merger was inevitable. It is up to us to keep sharing what we have to offer.

There will always be interest in quackeries. Hopefully sooner than later they just give everyone an MD and have OMM to the side as CME/Fellowship/Extracurricular for those that want it.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Hello,

I wanted to start a thread for any advice or alternatives for those of us who were depending on Grade Replacement GPA calculation offered by AACOMAS. Albeit, at this point I'm heart broken so I have no problem dropping my poor scores. Thanks for your honesty and advice!

Age: 26
Non-traditional student. Graduated with a 2.75 and Bachelors in Psychology and Biology.
Wasn't focused at community college for several semesters, failed out.
Averaged GPA: 2.2
Science GPA: 2.1

Upward Trend, redid all my prerequisites and was going to be finishing up 2 classes this semester
Grade Replacement GPA (would be): 3.45
Science GPA(would be): 3.40

Set to take the MCAT June 1st

1,000+ hrs volunteer work, several trips abroad teaching.
100+ hrs shadowing

Any advice, or alternatives? Or should I just let the dream go and work in Public Health. (I currently work in this field but am unsatisfied, *sigh*)

Masters program or pharmacy school at this point. I don't even think podiatry would accept a 2.2 GPA.

 

[SurgDoc95]

Masters program or pharmacy school at this point. I don't even think podiatry would accept a 2.2 GPA.

I would hope pharmacy school wouldn't take a 2.2 either. I mean they handle drugs

 

[GypsyHummus]

I would hope pharmacy school wouldn't take a 2.2 either. I mean they handle drugs

Hop on over the the pharmacy thread. It's a scary read.

 

[Spectreman]

I would hope pharmacy school wouldn't take a 2.2 either. I mean they handle drugs

You know how many 4.0 idiots I've known? Docs who went to the best schools who lost their license for stealing narcos and destroyed their family in the process? GPA does nothing more than show how well you can handle school work, which you need to do in order to get through med school, but tells nothing about the kind of doctor/podiatrist/pharmacist/nurse/whatever you'll be. What a horrible, shortsighted statement to make on a thread where someone is genuinely struggling with this new policy. She specifically said before the policy change she would have a 3.4, would you have made those same statements if this change hadn't just taken place? Yeesh...

MissDoctorLady,

People like RamsFan and GypsyHummus are the reason premed advisors hate SDN. Don't listen to them. You're 26, that's young. I'm starting med school at 33. I went through almost the same situation as you and at 26 I was a mess, you sound like you're close to being past your academic struggles. You might need to take another year or two and do post bacc, which is fine! Then do an SMP if you have to. DO schools have one year masters program specifically for people like you to show they've learned the habits and skills necessary to do well in medical school. If they still won't take you because of this change and you completed the program with a 3.7+, then you're clearly a good enough student to get through Ross or SGU without being another attrition statistic. If you ace the SMP med schools classes and get a 505+ MCAT, however, they'll have no reason to reject you. A lot of people will be affected by the new policy and adcoms will have to take the upward trend into consideration. Move to Michigan and apply to Wayne State if you have to. Wayne State uses a 32 hour rule where they calculate GPA based on the most recent 32 credits. There are other universities that do this, but most are state schools so you'll need to be a resident for it to really give you a leg up. Listen to the Premed Years podcast and reach out to Ryan Grey if you can. He's the head of the national society for non-traditional premeds. He can give you REAL advise. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[BruceWaynMD]

It's really terrible that they did this especially so short notice I honestly think it's dumb anyway especially if you take course umpteenth years ago and they still count them I wouldn't be suprised if AMCAS and AACOMAS just merge applications etc

 

[Goro]

See my post here:
https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...-in-the-absence-of-grade-replacement.1236525/

Hello,

I wanted to start a thread for any advice or alternatives for those of us who were depending on Grade Replacement GPA calculation offered by AACOMAS. Albeit, at this point I'm heart broken so I have no problem dropping my poor scores. Thanks for your honesty and advice!*)

Nope. Just do well. Show us the you of now is not the you of then.

@Goro Do DO schools look more positively on one or the other when it comes to SMP versus DIY post-baccs? I'm sorry if this question has been asked before. I've been doing a DIY post-bacc while working FT and without grade replacement am standing at about a 2.95 cumulative and science GPA but my DIY post-bacc GPA is a 4.0 with several A+s. However, if SMPs are looked at more favorably, I would like to go that route.

The Caribbean is a BAD shot. Doing a search on the subject in these for a will tell you why.

people usually have really bad things to say about the Caribbean , but the Caribbean is also a shot.
Again, i do not know anything about Caribbean not have a researched, so please do not hate me for suggesting it, just trying to find alternatives (as i am in a similar situation)

 

[WGSgrad]

I feel a bit guilty for plagiarizing myself in another thread, but the similarity of this thread, and all of the "what should I do now that there is no grade replacement" seem similar enough to justify it...

I'm all about accessing the damage and creating plans to move forward. First, I would like to admit that I am not one of the students most affected, or affected at all, by the change; while I am a non-trad recovering from a ten year old a 2.72, it was generally always my plan to take a ton of post-bacc courses and apply broadly to MD and DO.

That being said, I'm going to be honest, for me, this change is just really proof that at the end of the day, even if schools and admissions committees want to look at students holistically and are open to reinvention, that they are still held hostage by GPAs due to external factors (administration's focus on school rankings, etc.). I know this means that in addition to the multi-year mostly science coursework, that is suggested by DrMidLife, that I was planning to take on my post-bacc journey, I will also be throwing in some more psych, sociology, and English to improve my GPA. In the past I think I would have been concerned that this would be seen as "GPA padding," but this change has reinforced to me that medical school admissions are really a game and given the ever changing rules, you have to do all that you can to present the most compelling application you can.

 

[MissDoctorLady]

Thanks for all the advice guys! This is disheartening but truly a wake up call.

I actually did some reconfiguring and realized my gpa would be a 2.6 after averaging everything together. My gpa was a bit lower initially because I didn't realize B- , and A- grades received full credit. My alma mater basically counts a "B-" as a "C". I'm really not a C student, but managing less than a 1.0 gpa for the first two semesters really did doom me for what seems the next decade. LOL It would take 70 credits of A's to make it to a 2.9gpa. I won't go there... lol

I think that I do have a lot to offer despite my poor gpa. I'm not the average student nor did I simply sit back and skate through my classes. I received two degrees concurrently, started my own college service learning course for students to work with primary school children in the area, 16 months of Peace Corps and started a federal career in public health. Maybe these things will help me to stand out? But I have so much more to work for. I'm not going to give up! I'll try a master's program or SMP, if they'll let me in. I understand that BCOM, LMU and Tuoro can pull applicants for their SMP from AACOMAS? Maybe I'll stand a chance if I apply now as my (Grade Replacement) cGPA is 3.4ish and my sGPA is 3.3ish. It's too bad that I didn't take the MCAT yet, but my application is ready in every other area. My mentor (just a current DO student) brought up the idea about applying to LECOM without my MCAT. Apparently, it is possible to apply with their Academic Index Score? Acceptance this route really doesn't sound feasible, but I am becoming desperate. My only issue with applying now would be that next cycle I would be a reapplicant noted with a LOWER gpa.

Alas, I guess I have no other choice but to destroy the MCAT this June...

 

[MissDoctorLady]

I definitely believe it is a game. When I finally was admitted back into a university I met with their pre-health committee and indeed they told me that it is a game. They advised me on this grade replacement route and told me to look more into osteopathic medicine to determine if this would be a suitable route for me. Their exact words was something along the lines of "If you're going to play the game make sure you're at your best and can do nothing else to prepare". LOL Sounds like going to war, but as a non-traditional student trying to makeup for the past it truly is war. I had this planned for years but unfortunately did not prepare myself for change. *sigh*

One bit of advice that I have is check into which courses AACOMAS denotes as "science" courses. I brought up my science gpa taking courses in Health Services, Bio Anthropology, Dietics, Kinesiology etc since these courses are also counted towards the ever so critical sGPA. I'm just wondering at what point does it become worthless to continue taking undergraduate classes and more beneficial to take graduate sciences?

What is your total combined cumulative GPA and science GPAs from all the schools you attended?

I feel a bit guilty for plagiarizing myself in another thread, but the similarity of this thread, and all of the "what should I do now that there is no grade replacement" seem similar enough to justify it...

I'm all about accessing the damage and creating plans to move forward. First, I would like to admit that I am not one of the students most affected, or affected at all, by the change; while I am a non-trad recovering from a ten year old a 2.72, it was generally always my plan to take a ton of post-bacc courses and apply broadly to MD and DO.

That being said, I'm going to be honest, for me, this change is just really proof that at the end of the day, even if schools and admissions committees want to look at students holistically and are open to reinvention, that they are still held hostage by GPAs due to external factors (administration's focus on school rankings, etc.). I know this means that in addition to the multi-year mostly science coursework, that is suggested by DrMidLife, that I was planning to take on my post-bacc journey, I will also be throwing in some more psych, sociology, and English to improve my GPA. In the past I think I would have been concerned that this would be seen as "GPA padding," but this change has reinforced to me that medical school admissions are really a game and given the ever changing rules, you have to do all that you can to present the most compelling application you can.