Donuts and Doughnuts WW - Game Thread

[Viscernable]

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So if I was the target of their previous NK’s, why was I their target? Salt, read list or to frame someone?

A) I would caution against trying to analyze N1 NK choice - there’s too much WIFOM going on since the kill choice is much less important for crafting endgame than it is towards the end of the game. At the time I thought you’d be the target because you were wolfhunting like mad and sounded village. B) We don’t know for sure that you were the target unless you got notification of a failed attack. Kill could have been blocked for other reasons.

 

[Viscernable]

I think I'm also a little biased by my inclination to village read people who are pushing me...

I know this is something village Dubz would say but it’s making me think thoughts about how convenient it would be for wolf Dubz to reevaluate village reads she has on people she can’t take to endgame

 

[Lawpy]

D4 Fresh Doughnut Tally (version 4.2)

cubs (1) - Mels
Cray (1) - WZ

2/8 voting

Yeet close in ~3.5 hours

 

[cubsrule4e]

I kinda want to vote cubs, but some part of me feels intimidated by Mel and I don't know why.

What is drawing you to me?

 

[cubsrule4e]

I know WZ was on that Mel vote early, and she's still high on my list, but with Vis no longer a viable option, and mkg misyeeted, wondering if they could be a pair with Mel now starting to throw the cubs shade.

Vis, you still interested in a dubz flip?

vote UndomesticatedZoo

 

[Animal Midwife]

What is drawing you to me?

It's a combination of the exasperated responses to both no kill nights and the overall agreeableness with me this whole game.

 

[cubsrule4e]

It's a combination of the exasperated responses to both no kill nights and the overall agreeableness with me this whole game.

I was pretty agreeable with you the last few games, actually. Exasperated responses? One time I made a joke about voting null if there was no death, but thats pretty in line with all the other no-death jokes from others. And why would a wolf start complaining on thread about there being no NK? Risks drawing attention, like it has with you apparently.

 

[Animal Midwife]

I was pretty agreeable with you the last few games, actually. Exasperated responses? One time I made a joke about voting null if there was no death, but thats pretty in line with all the other no-death jokes from others. And why would a wolf start complaining on thread about there being no NK? Risks drawing attention, like it has with you apparently.

That's WIFOM.

Of the three prior games, the only one where you didn't call me a wolf was Madagascar.

 

[cubsrule4e]

That's WIFOM.

Of the three prior games, the only one where you didn't call me a wolf was Madagascar.

Hmm.. I'll have to fact-check that one.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Other than what Mel has quoted above, I havent been whiteknighting you at all. I even partially insulted you when I called your conversion talk "drivel" lol.

Idk why you think you need to convince me. I stated you seem less sus to me. But I wouldn’t stick my neck out for you on this game until I have more to go off

I kinda want to vote cubs, but some part of me feels intimidated by Mel and I don't know why.

Maybe AM gets intimidated, but this is the first I have heard of it

Son. You always either say I'm too loose or too tight every single game. Why am I not allowed to have a range of emotions like everyone else?

I don’t recall ever saying you were too loose, but I def enjoy it. You have hammered me for the slightest deviation in behavior. It bugs me more that it bothers you that I said that, then it does that you are playing a different style.

(ps- I don’t have everyone personality or range of emotions down. Not something I linger on so it will def take many times/games for it to stick for me)

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Hmm.. I'll have to fact-check that one.

3 Pinocchio’s!

 

[WildZoo]

I know WZ was on that Mel vote early, and she's still high on my list, but with Vis no longer a viable option, and mkg misyeeted, wondering if they could be a pair with Mel now starting to throw the cubs shade.

Vis, you still interested in a dubz flip?

vote UndomesticatedZoo

Pls stop tunneling me, thanks

 

[WildZoo]

I know this is something village Dubz would say but it’s making me think thoughts about how convenient it would be for wolf Dubz to reevaluate village reads she has on people she can’t take to endgame

I mean it's not like village dubz can sit here not reevaluating so I'm not sure how that could even be considered AI. Unless you're lying, my early reads were their usual bad.

 

[WildZoo]

I kinda want to vote cubs, but some part of me feels intimidated by Mel and I don't know why.

Intimidated in what way?

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Spoiler: Day 1

Chaos (1) - AM
dubz (1) - Chaos
Chaos (2) - AM, Vis
dubz () -
Vis (1) - Chaos
Mel (1) - mkg
Mel (2) - mkg, genny
Mel (3) - mkg, genny, dubz
Cray (1) - Bob
Chaos (3) - AM, Vis, cubs
Vis (2) - Chaos, Mel
Vis (1) - Mel
AM (1) - Chaos
Vis (2) - Mel, Cray

10/10

Spoiler: Day 2

cubs (1) - Mel
cubs () -
Cray (1) - Bob
Chaos (1) - AM
AM (1) - Chaos
Chaos (2) - AM, cubs
Bob (1) - Cray
Vis (1) - Mel
mkg (1) - dubz
Chaos (1) - AM
dubz (1) - cubs
mkg (2) - dubz, genny
Cray (2) - Bob, mkg

9/10
Missing: Vis

Spoiler: Day 3

Vis (1) - Bob
mkg (1) - Chaos
mkg (2) - Chaos, Vis
Vis (2) - Bob, Mel
mkg (3) - Chaos, Vis, AM
Cray (1) - mkg
Vis (3) - Bob, Mel, cubs
Vis (4) - Bob, Mel, cubs, dubz
Cray () -
Vis (5) - Bob, Mel, cubs, dubz, mkg
mkg (2) - Vis, AM
Vis (6) - Bob, Mel, cubs, dubz, mkg, Chaos
Vis (5) - Bob, cubs, dubz, mkg, Chaos
Mel (1) - Mel
Mel () -
Vis (6) - Bob, cubs, dubz, mkg, Chaos, Mel
Vis (5) - Bob, cubs, dubz, mkg, Chaos
cubs (1) - Mel
mkg (3) - Vis, AM, genny
mkg (2) - Vis, genny
cubs (2) - Mel, AM
Vis (4) - Bob, cubs, mkg, Chaos
mkg (3) - Vis, genny, dubz
cubs (3) - Mel, AM, Cray
Vis (3) - Bob, mkg, Chaos
Vis (2) - mkg, Chaos
mkg (4) - Vis, genny, dubz, cubs
cubs (2) - Mel, Cray
mkg (5) - Vis, genny, dubz, cubs, AM
mkg (6) - Vis, genny, dubz, cubs, AM, Bob

10/10

I could see wolves staying on D1 tie hoping random one was picked or better yet both eaten.

 

[cubsrule4e]

That's WIFOM.

Of the three prior games, the only one where you didn't call me a wolf was Madagascar.

So I voted for you 0 times in all 3 games, and you voted for me once both in Nutmeg and RvB.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Idk why you think you need to convince me. I stated you seem less sus to me. But I wouldn’t stick my neck out for you on this game until I have more to go off

Maybe AM gets intimidated, but this is the first I have heard of it

I don’t recall ever saying you were too loose, but I def enjoy it. You have hammered me for the slightest deviation in behavior. It bugs me more that it bothers you that I said that, then it does that you are playing a different style.

(ps- I don’t have everyone personality or range of emotions down. Not something I linger on so it will def take many times/games for it to stick for me)

I mean, that's what's being said right now.

3 Pinocchio’s!

What?

Intimidated in what way?

I just am having trouble regarding my usual want to sheep him when I'm conflicted. It's absent.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

I’m going with my original thought and feels

yeet Cray

I will check back to see if an appropriate move is best for village

 

[genny]

Guys I saw my usual crazy busy Monday plus 6 squeeze-ins and I still don’t get to go home for another hour because I’m babysitting another doctors hospitalized patient until discharge. I may not be awake later, especially since wine is in my future. Someone tell me who to vote for because my brain is mush.

 

[Lawpy]

D4 Fresh Doughnut Tally (version 4.3)

cubs (1) - Mels
Cray (2) - WZ, bobs
WZ (1) - cubs

4/8 voting

Yeet close in ~2.5 hours

 

[BobLoblaw78]

I mean, that's what's being said right now.

What?

I just am having trouble regarding my usual want to sheep him when I'm conflicted. It's absent.

You seem to detail oriented to say this. I say you play tight and this is the first time you have played loose. And your response is I always say you play too loose or too tight??? That doesn’t sound like a detail you normally miss. Which is why you are lingering in my POE

Fact check. Pinocchio’s. Just a stupid word association I thought was amusing. Not an indictment on you....I tried picking something in the middle. I can’t remember half our interactions. Much less yours and Cubs.

 

[cubsrule4e]

Guys I saw my usual crazy busy Monday plus 6 squeeze-ins and I still don’t get to go home for another hour because I’m babysitting another doctors hospitalized patient until discharge. I may not be awake later, especially since wine is in my future. Someone tell me who to vote for because my brain is mush.

If youre that far behind I'd say not voting at all is less detrimental that following someone's random instruction, especially this far into the game.

 

[Animal Midwife]

So I voted for you 0 times in all 3 games, and you voted for me once both in Nutmeg and RvB.

Madagascar:

So i'll bet some Wows! and Angrys! by the time this post is published (currently 8:23PM) AM will have called me out or asked for reads or threatened to whip me. Im sorry shes disappointed there are so many subs but at least ive been following the thread

Whats your new 48 hrs later list looking like?

RvB:

I just stated I will vote AM today if necessary. I voted April to get some discussion going. So in that vein, a question based on this post directed to the general audience:

If AM flips wolf, who is your next top vote? I dont mean POE, I mean most likely player or at least top 2 that youd vote for and why? Same if she flips village?

For me Id probably go after the hat eater Zenge if she flips village. If wolf, as enigma said, the person that was most zealous about getting out the different reasons the IC could be legit, which Im not exactly sure who that was, will go back and look... it might have actually been Enigma lol, or maybe Cray. Although I think Cray was talking more in generalities about how she likes variant IC roles.

So much for wanting to see an AM flip. Cray and please are basically trying to give her an out. Interesting.

Lets get through the AM flip and then discuss. On that note, at 5-3 with AM already on me, a tie/Cubs yeet should be impossible without all wolves/non village disclosing themselves, so this configuration should be solid for EOD.

Nutmeg:

Wow is it Stagg/AM?

 

[BobLoblaw78]

So I voted for you 0 times in all 3 games, and you voted for me once both in Nutmeg and RvB.

Although this points to the fact that there was at least some Pinocchio’s deserved.

(I just think Pinocchio’s sound ridiculous for a fact-check, newspaper, journalism or any serious discussion... so it makes me laugh)

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Guys I saw my usual crazy busy Monday plus 6 squeeze-ins and I still don’t get to go home for another hour because I’m babysitting another doctors hospitalized patient until discharge. I may not be awake later, especially since wine is in my future. Someone tell me who to vote for because my brain is mush.

Vote for a wolf this time

 

[cubsrule4e]

Madagascar:

RvB:



Nutmeg:

Madagascar: Theres nothing at all in there about wolfing

RvB: That was discussing about flipping you, not reading you as wolf. Theres a difference.

Nutmeg: That was when you voted me out of nowhere, and I was confused so I jokingly implied you were a wolf because why else would you start a last minute wagon on me with stagg?

 

[cubsrule4e]

Heading to volleyball. Unless im needed to sub ill be back before 9.

 

[Crayola227]

I'm actually a little confused why you so strongly think a wolf would move bob into their village reads just because they were unable to kill him. They wouldn't necessarily know he was protected, depending on how night results work this game, in which case failure to kill him might make them want to try to get him yoten instead, or at least pressure him into saying more about what happened. And even if they did know he was protected, they'd be more likely to be able to get a feel for who the protector was if they floated bob as sketchy and looked for who defended him.

Did I miss something about Bob and protection? Does this clear Bob in some way?

 

[Animal Midwife]

You seem to detail oriented to say this. I say you play tight and this is the first time you have played loose. And your response is I always say you play too loose or too tight??? That doesn’t sound like a detail you normally miss. Which is why you are lingering in my POE

Bob, I'm saying I play like this all the time. And even if I omit your back-to-back wolf games, every single game is you suspecting me for one of those two reasons even though it never changes.

Fact check. Pinocchio’s. Just a stupid word association I thought was amusing. Not an indictment on you....I tried picking something in the middle. I can’t remember half our interactions. Much less yours and Cubs.

...okay?

 

[WildZoo]

Did I miss something about Bob and protection? Does this clear Bob in some way?

Can't tell if fake

But anyway, vis said she protected bob so that may explain the no kill nights, but it also could have been something else, so no he's not necessarily clear

 

[Crayola227]

Yeet cray

Next up rereading cubs

Ugh guys don't yeet me, I'm not a wolf I'm just busy and stressed and finding it hard to keep up

 

[Animal Midwife]

If youre that far behind I'd say not voting at all is less detrimental that following someone's random instruction, especially this far into the game.

No. Please vote.

 

[Crayola227]

On above post, mainly pointing compatability between cray and Genny.

I still like Cray for wolf but willing to go dubz or even AM. Just so I’m not tunneled on cray. I am less certain about Cubs. And I have been liking Mel more as village but he has reputation as good wolf play.

I need to go back and look at D1 and D2 votes to make sense of the lack of movement. Just no time now

Nah in my wolfing style I no longer am complimentary to fellow pack mates especially when they aren't even under much sus. WIFOM I know. I'm more likely to avoid interactions than anything else.

 

[WildZoo]

Ugh guys don't yeet me, I'm not a wolf I'm just busy and stressed and finding it hard to keep up

Ah, my heartstrings

 

[Crayola227]

I think I'm also a little biased by my inclination to village read people who are pushing me...

Then why aren't you village reading me? Am I just not pushing you hard enough?

Honestly just wish I had better feelings on who is village so I could sheep there. That's what I tend to do when I'm not giving a game my all.

 

[Crayola227]

Wait is this thread really only 12 pages long and we're on day 4? Yikes.

I been slacking at night

 

[Animal Midwife]

Madagascar: Theres nothing at all in there about wolfing

What was your affiliation?

RvB: That was discussing about flipping you, not reading you as wolf. Theres a difference.

Nutmeg: That was when you voted me out of nowhere, and I was confused so I jokingly implied you were a wolf because why else would you start a last minute wagon on me with stagg?

So you just intentionally encourage votes on village reads as a villager?

 

[Animal Midwife]

Did I miss something about Bob and protection? Does this clear Bob in some way?

I thought you saw the post yesterday?

 

[Viscernable]

I know WZ was on that Mel vote early, and she's still high on my list, but with Vis no longer a viable option, and mkg misyeeted, wondering if they could be a pair with Mel now starting to throw the cubs shade.

Vis, you still interested in a dubz flip?

vote UndomesticatedZoo

I’m fairly neutral on Dubz and 100% do not think they are wolfing together with Dubz voting him in the D1 tie. I’m starting to wonder about Mel/cray.

I don’t really know how to explain the feelings I’ve gotten about Mel. It’s just a feeling that he is really working to direct the flow of the game in a way that felt somehow off. I’m sure part of it is that he’s less busy than he has been in other recent games so I’m seeing a different play style than I’m used to from him, and that coupled with Dubz reading him village based on feels and wolfhunting made me write it off as just me reacting to him being more involved in wolfhunting and probably some OMGUS. But I can see it being a way to take control and proactively divert suspicion elsewhere when your partner is busy and has been skirting on the edge of suspicion.

That said, I’m more suspicious of cray than I am of Mel, I can see more packs with cray than with Mel (cubs/cray, genny/cray [less likely], AM/cray [less likely]), and to be honest misyeeting Mel if he’s village is a bigger risk than misyeeting cray if she’s village right now given how much he’s been contributing

 

[Viscernable]

I mean it's not like village dubz can sit here not reevaluating so I'm not sure how that could even be considered AI. Unless you're lying, my early reads were their usual bad.

I just get very scared about you when I don’t have any solid wolf reads

 

[Crayola227]

Hmm. These were my reads (minus visc). And I don't see the Cubs sus like he and others do, but could very well be wrong on him.

Wolves are being consistent on attacking me and Chaos who have AM and cray on our lists. It is either trying to steer us in a misyeet or protect themselves. I will let you guys give feedback on whether you think wolfAM/wolfCray would do this.

If Cubs is trying to pocket me, I don't see why he would choose to NK me. Maybe if he was trying to whiteknight me and gain points off a village flip.

AM doesn't tend to kill to clear her name. In all honesty I always advocate as wolf strategy avoiding retaliation kills to silence the opposition as it were, and often end up doing it anyway. I only tend to risk it though if it's a lone voice in the wilderness where a NK might possibly actually settle down sus on a player otherwise being consensus read as village. There's too much sus on me rn for it to be a good strat for me.

 

[Crayola227]

Son. You always either say I'm too loose or too tight every single game. Why am I not allowed to have a range of emotions like everyone else?

Not particularly reading AM wolf, however I do have to say this is very similar to defense she's made wolfing where I was pressuring her to wolf hunt and she was like "why can't you leave me alone and treat me like everyone else" essentially. Just needed to be said because to me there are few wolf AM tells that I've found and I watch for them like a hawk.

 

[WildZoo]

I don’t really know how to explain the feelings I’ve gotten about Mel. It’s just a feeling that he is really working to direct the flow of the game in a way that felt somehow off. I’m sure part of it is that he’s less busy than he has been in other recent games so I’m seeing a different play style than I’m used to from him, and that coupled with Dubz reading him village based on feels and wolfhunting made me write it off as just me reacting to him being more involved in wolfhunting and probably some OMGUS. But I can see it being a way to take control and proactively divert suspicion elsewhere when your partner is busy and has been skirting on the edge of suspicion.

Oh god please do not base anything ever on my ability to read Mel, my choke awards are a testament to that.

I've been having paranoia feels about Mel powerwolfing since like, yesterday. I keep settling them with how ridiculous it would have been to let himself die d1, and the fact that I think he'd have pushed my vote harder by now if he were wolfing.

If he's working this hard he should get a wolf though. So I'm teetering on the edge of discarding my own cubs read to test it out.

 

[Animal Midwife]

It's getting late and I hate to be a floater.

Yeet cubs

 

[Crayola227]

It's a combination of the exasperated responses to both no kill nights and the overall agreeableness with me this whole game.

Yeah this is gonna make me pull the trigger on cubs

##### vote cubs #####

I'll really regret it if I'm falling into a trap by either a wolfy AM or Mel.

 

[Crayola227]

If youre that far behind I'd say not voting at all is less detrimental that following someone's random instruction, especially this far into the game.

Sure, gives wolves more vote control than if she were to follow a consensus (which can be wrong but statistically will be made up of mostly villagers at least) or sheep someone she has more village feels on.

 

[Crayola227]

I thought you saw the post yesterday?

I caught the soft but didn't remember if she mentioned who she protected.

And villagers can protect wolves, and the kill can fail for some reason unrelated to protection. So yeah I see how this doesn't clear bob entirely but despite his silly sus on me want to look more seriously at other players.

 

[Viscernable]

Chaos (1) - AM
dubz (1) - Chaos
Chaos (2) - AM, Vis
dubz () -
Vis (1) - Chaos
Mel (1) - mkg
Mel (2) - mkg, genny
Mel (3) - mkg, genny, dubz
Cray (1) - Bob
Chaos (3) - AM, Vis, cubs
Vis (2) - Chaos, Mel
Vis (1) - Mel
AM (1) - Chaos
Vis (2) - Mel, Cray

10/10

So we can rule out Dubz/Mel and genny/Mel straight off IMO. Maybe nvm about Mel/Cray given she’d have voted last and left her partner out to dry in a tie with that vote. Perhaps she was waiting to see if she could vote chaos without causing suspicion or hoping someone else would move off Mel so she wouldn’t have to, but seems likely she would have just gone with voting chaos in that scenario. I’m having trouble seeing both Mel and his partner doing nothing to prevent him ending in a tie, so I guess it looks like if it’s Mel then his partner is probably AM or maybe cubs (see below on why I think this is viable). I’m not ruling it out but this makes me feel better about Mel.

cubs (1) - Mel
cubs () -
Cray (1) - Bob
Chaos (1) - AM
AM (1) - Chaos
Chaos (2) - AM, cubs
Bob (1) - Cray
Vis (1) - Mel
mkg (1) - dubz
Chaos (1) - AM
dubz (1) - cubs
mkg (2) - dubz, genny
Cray (2) - Bob, mkg

9/10
Missing: Vis

Can rule out Bob/Cray, not that I was considering it in the first place.

Vis (1) - Bob
mkg (1) - Chaos
mkg (2) - Chaos, Vis
Vis (2) - Bob, Mel
mkg (3) - Chaos, Vis, AM
Cray (1) - mkg
Vis (3) - Bob, Mel, cubs
Vis (4) - Bob, Mel, cubs, dubz
Cray () -
Vis (5) - Bob, Mel, cubs, dubz, mkg
mkg (2) - Vis, AM
Vis (6) - Bob, Mel, cubs, dubz, mkg, Chaos
Vis (5) - Bob, cubs, dubz, mkg, Chaos
Mel (1) - Mel
Mel () -
Vis (6) - Bob, cubs, dubz, mkg, Chaos, Mel
Vis (5) - Bob, cubs, dubz, mkg, Chaos
cubs (1) - Mel
mkg (3) - Vis, AM, genny
mkg (2) - Vis, genny
cubs (2) - Mel, AM
Vis (4) - Bob, cubs, mkg, Chaos
mkg (3) - Vis, genny, dubz
cubs (3) - Mel, AM, Cray
Vis (3) - Bob, mkg, Chaos
Vis (2) - mkg, Chaos
mkg (4) - Vis, genny, dubz, cubs
cubs (2) - Mel, Cray
mkg (5) - Vis, genny, dubz, cubs, AM
mkg (6) - Vis, genny, dubz, cubs, AM, Bob

10/10

I want to go back and see if Mel could have gone to mkg instead of cubs without raising eyebrows. If he couldn’t, then given how much more sus there was on mkg than cubs, I’m not reading his vote there as ruling out them being a pack. Still won’t 100% rule it out if he could have gone to mkg, sonce he could have done the mental math and decided there was little enough risk cubs would be yeeted over mkg that the soft bus cred was worth it. I’m not saying I think cubs/Mel is likely (I don’t), but I want to note for myself if one of them flips wolf not to clear the other.

 

[Crayola227]

I’m fairly neutral on Dubz and 100% do not think they are wolfing together with Dubz voting him in the D1 tie. I’m starting to wonder about Mel/cray.

I don’t really know how to explain the feelings I’ve gotten about Mel. It’s just a feeling that he is really working to direct the flow of the game in a way that felt somehow off. I’m sure part of it is that he’s less busy than he has been in other recent games so I’m seeing a different play style than I’m used to from him, and that coupled with Dubz reading him village based on feels and wolfhunting made me write it off as just me reacting to him being more involved in wolfhunting and probably some OMGUS. But I can see it being a way to take control and proactively divert suspicion elsewhere when your partner is busy and has been skirting on the edge of suspicion.

That said, I’m more suspicious of cray than I am of Mel, I can see more packs with cray than with Mel (cubs/cray, genny/cray [less likely], AM/cray [less likely]), and to be honest misyeeting Mel if he’s village is a bigger risk than misyeeting cray if she’s village right now given how much he’s been contributing

I would have loved a Visc flip for giving insight on other players including especially maybe on Mel

 

[Viscernable]

Yeah this is gonna make me pull the trigger on cubs

##### vote cubs #####

I'll really regret it if I'm falling into a trap by either a wolfy AM or Mel.

Hm. So cubs/cray and mel/cray both look much less likely than I thought which really puts a dent in my cray suspicions.