Donuts and Doughnuts WW - Game Thread

[Lawpy]

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D4 Fresh Doughnut Tally (version 4.4)

cubs (3) - Mels, AM, Cray
Cray (2) - WZ, bobs
WZ (1) - cubs

6/8 voting

@cubsrule4e is leading

Yeet close in ~1.5 hours

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Ugh guys don't yeet me, I'm not a wolf I'm just busy and stressed and finding it hard to keep up

Sounds genuine

Nah in my wolfing style I no longer am complimentary to fellow pack mates especially when they aren't even under much sus. WIFOM I know. I'm more likely to avoid interactions than anything else.

You have been avoiding interactions in general compared to normal. Lol

Ah, my heartstrings

Lol. You say this but it works on me some

 

[WildZoo]

Lol. You say this but it works on me some

For once I actually wasn't being sarcastic. AtE works on me pretty much every time.

 

[WildZoo]

So we can rule out Dubz/Mel and genny/Mel straight off IMO. Maybe nvm about Mel/Cray given she’d have voted last and left her partner out to dry in a tie with that vote. Perhaps she was waiting to see if she could vote chaos without causing suspicion or hoping someone else would move off Mel so she wouldn’t have to, but seems likely she would have just gone with voting chaos in that scenario. I’m having trouble seeing both Mel and his partner doing nothing to prevent him ending in a tie, so I guess it looks like if it’s Mel then his partner is probably AM or maybe cubs (see below on why I think this is viable). I’m not ruling it out but this makes me feel better about Mel.

Can rule out Bob/Cray, not that I was considering it in the first place.

I want to go back and see if Mel could have gone to mkg instead of cubs without raising eyebrows. If he couldn’t, then given how much more sus there was on mkg than cubs, I’m not reading his vote there as ruling out them being a pack. Still won’t 100% rule it out if he could have gone to mkg, sonce he could have done the mental math and decided there was little enough risk cubs would be yeeted over mkg that the soft bus cred was worth it. I’m not saying I think cubs/Mel is likely (I don’t), but I want to note for myself if one of them flips wolf not to clear the other.

Hm. So cubs/cray and mel/cray both look much less likely than I thought which really puts a dent in my cray suspicions.

Idk if cray following Mel and AM onto cubs really clears that pairing for me

 

[Viscernable]

Idk I see the cubs sus but he just feels village to me.

And I see an opportunity for a temporary tie (dear lord no final ties today)

vote cray

 

[Viscernable]

Idk if cray following Mel and AM onto cubs really clears that pairing for me

Definitely does not clear it but a point against it. Less so than I thought at the time because I thought cubs was more in the lead and the vote was more evenly spread between other people, not cubs and cray as the 2 leading wagons

 

[genny]

So that was less than I thought it would be.

yeet dubz
seems most sketch.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Did I miss something about Bob and protection? Does this clear Bob in some way?

Hmmm. Always makes me question when things like this are said. Like “if I was a wolf, I wouldn’t have missed this”... Although you have been somewhat out of it and busy.

Plus. I missed it. But I went back to find it when I saw others reference it

No. Please vote.

Sounds normal. And I guess is always good for reads

I thought you saw the post yesterday?

Could be Wolfpack cover to help sell it

It's getting late and I hate to be a floater.

Yeet cubs

Yeah this is gonna make me pull the trigger on cubs

##### vote cubs #####

I'll really regret it if I'm falling into a trap by either a wolfy AM or Mel.

Then you sheep her vote which gets me back to thinking your working together

Hm. So cubs/cray and mel/cray both look much less likely than I thought which really puts a dent in my cray suspicions.

Is there an issue with cray/Am comparability that I am missing?

I would rather miss a well played wolf game than an obvious one. So I am still stuck on Cray and AM.

Cubs- often sounds wolfy with jokes and willingness to needle people.

Cray- I can’t ever remember thinking she sounded wolffish

Mel- tipped him towards village awhile ago but not sure. I think because unwillingness to not self prez D1. Just like chaos iirc

Dubz- not a good read but not the most wolfy

 

[Animal Midwife]

Idk I see the cubs sus but he just feels village to me.

And I see an opportunity for a temporary tie (dear lord no final ties today)

vote cray

Who are you thinking she's with again?

 

[Lawpy]

D4 Fresh Doughnut Tally (version 4.5)

cubs (3) - Mels, AM, Cray
Cray (3) - WZ, bobs, vissy
WZ (2) - cubs, genny

8/8 voting

A tie 🤔🤔

Yeet close in ~1.5 hours

 

[BobLoblaw78]

AM- what is your read on Cray?

 

[WildZoo]

So that was less than I thought it would be.

yeet dubz
seems most sketch.

Excuse me what

 

[genny]

Excuse me what

maybe it's paranoia time at the end of a long day, but i find you sketchy and wolf-like.

 

[WildZoo]

maybe it's paranoia time at the end of a long day, but i find you sketchy and wolf-like.

Care to explain a little bit more?

 

[Viscernable]

So that was less than I thought it would be.

yeet dubz
seems most sketch.

Just a feeling or anything she’s done in particular?

 

[Animal Midwife]

AM- what is your read on Cray?

Been conflicted most of this game, but she's given me the same off-Cray vibe in recent games and still been village.

 

[genny]

I mean it's not like village dubz can sit here not reevaluating so I'm not sure how that could even be considered AI. Unless you're lying, my early reads were their usual bad.

Can't tell if fake

But anyway, vis said she protected bob so that may explain the no kill nights, but it also could have been something else, so no he's not necessarily clear

Oh god please do not base anything ever on my ability to read Mel, my choke awards are a testament to that.

I've been having paranoia feels about Mel powerwolfing since like, yesterday. I keep settling them with how ridiculous it would have been to let himself die d1, and the fact that I think he'd have pushed my vote harder by now if he were wolfing.

If he's working this hard he should get a wolf though. So I'm teetering on the edge of discarding my own cubs read to test it out.

There's a lot of hedge here. And self-deprecation that you do more often as a wolf than a villager.

 

[WildZoo]

@Animal Midwife remind me of cubs' recent wolfing games?

 

[WildZoo]

There's a lot of hedge here. And self-deprecation that you do more often as a wolf than a villager.

That's a flat out lie actually. Has been brought up before and is something I do as a wolf because it is common in my village play. I don't want to pull examples from my own meta but I will if I have to.

And how is it hedging to say Bob isn't clear because vis protected him? Or that I have to re-evaluate my reads when one of my top flipped village and the other claimed protector? What?

 

[genny]

i don't know, i'm too tired to argue.

 

[WildZoo]

i don't know, i'm too tired to argue.

You chose the wrong person to vote for then genny, you know me 😛

 

[BobLoblaw78]

I’m not seeing much voting wise that prevents AM/cray.

AM was stuck early and all day 1/2 on chaos. Is that the norm? And with what seemed to start as a salt vote?

And on D3 for cray to be on neither visc or mkg (when both had 6 votes) is staying away from a wagon with plenty of momentum on its own. Good move for a wolf to avoid a misyeet. Plus she had voted visc on D2

D2- cray could’ve self prez but didn’t. So there is that. Though it was a tie.

I’ve looked at the votes to the point they are running together now.

 

[Animal Midwife]

@Animal Midwife remind me of cubs' recent wolfing games?

Madagascar is the one from this year. He was solo scum in CYO. I looked back at the list and it seems 90s was before both of these?

 

[WildZoo]

Madagascar is the one from this year. He was solo scum in CYO. I looked back at the list and it seems 90s was before both of these?

Yeah I was thinking of CYO and how he pushed me there. Felt different though. I think.

 

[Animal Midwife]

I’m not seeing much voting wise that prevents AM/cray.

AM was stuck early and all day 1/2 on chaos. Is that the norm? And with what seemed to start as a salt vote?

And on D3 for cray to be on neither visc or mkg (when both had 6 votes) is staying away from a wagon with plenty of momentum on its own. Good move for a wolf to avoid a misyeet. Plus she had voted visc on D2

D2- cray could’ve self prez but didn’t. So there is that. Though it was a tie.

I’ve looked at the votes to the point they are running together now.

None of my vote are ever just salt. They're with serious intent and for a purpose.

 

[WildZoo]

K I'm gonna go read Cubbie's posts in Madagascar, brb

 

[Viscernable]

You seem to detail oriented to say this. I say you play tight and this is the first time you have played loose. And your response is I always say you play too loose or too tight??? That doesn’t sound like a detail you normally miss. Which is why you are lingering in my POE

Fact check. Pinocchio’s. Just a stupid word association I thought was amusing. Not an indictment on you....I tried picking something in the middle. I can’t remember half our interactions. Much less yours and Cubs.

If this is a big reason AM feels off to you, I think I remember a similar thing in like… your third game, maybe? I think you noted AM was playing differently and less rigidly than you remember and were wondering if it was AI. This is a very vague memory but I think it’s what AM’s referring to.

 

[WildZoo]

Been conflicted most of this game, but she's given me the same off-Cray vibe in recent games and still been village.

Yeah this is what has been tripping me up...

Also I feel like the D2 tie is a little difficult to evaluate because there was so much spread. Mk voted with only 7 minutes to go, wolves might not have been around to change anything, and up until that point she could have voted for any of like 6 people for self prez so it's not like they would have known to try to push the vote away from cray if she is a wolf. Hmm hmm.

 

[WildZoo]

Wow cubs only had like 36 posts in Madagascar

Edit: I just remembered he subbed in so that makes more sense lol

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Madagascar is the one from this year. He was solo scum in CYO. I looked back at the list and it seems 90s was before both of these?

I remember him in Madagascar. As packmate. And he seemed to jump around with throwing sus. Seemed more heavy handed but that was from a wolf perspective when I knew he was wrong.

I’m not getting that feeling now. But I think he is good at interweaving jokes

 

[Crayola227]

Hmmm. Always makes me question when things like this are said. Like “if I was a wolf, I wouldn’t have missed this”... Although you have been somewhat out of it and busy.

Plus. I missed it. But I went back to find it when I saw others reference it

Sounds normal. And I guess is always good for reads

Could be Wolfpack cover to help sell it



Then you sheep her vote which gets me back to thinking your working together

Is there an issue with cray/Am comparability that I am missing?

I would rather miss a well played wolf game than an obvious one. So I am still stuck on Cray and AM.

Cubs- often sounds wolfy with jokes and willingness to needle people.

Cray- I can’t ever remember thinking she sounded wolffish

Mel- tipped him towards village awhile ago but not sure. I think because unwillingness to not self prez D1. Just like chaos iirc

Dubz- not a good read but not the most wolfy

My working with Midwife I think is NAI for me at best. I think we're more likely to be at odds when one of us is a wolf, but our v/v interactions are as likely as not to be good or bad ime.

 

[Crayola227]

There's a lot of hedge here. And self-deprecation that you do more often as a wolf than a villager.

Agreed.

I would move to WZ if that was a viable wagon. Not interested in just shifting the tie though.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

If this is a big reason AM feels off to you, I think I remember a similar thing in like… your third game, maybe? I think you noted AM was playing differently and less rigidly than you remember and were wondering if it was AI. This is a very vague memory but I think it’s what AM’s referring to.

Could be that I said that before. It is one of the many feels that have been different.

I often get vibes from AM that are wrong. That is why I want her out of my POE and I don’t want to be wrong again. Many things though that preventing me from ignoring it.

That is why I haven’t pushed her for a vote or voted her any of the days

 

[Crayola227]

I’m not seeing much voting wise that prevents AM/cray.

AM was stuck early and all day 1/2 on chaos. Is that the norm? And with what seemed to start as a salt vote?

And on D3 for cray to be on neither visc or mkg (when both had 6 votes) is staying away from a wagon with plenty of momentum on its own. Good move for a wolf to avoid a misyeet. Plus she had voted visc on D2

D2- cray could’ve self prez but didn’t. So there is that. Though it was a tie.

I’ve looked at the votes to the point they are running together now.

Don't know what to say to all this, except yes Midwife will do that.

Also if this was an AM/Cray pack think she would be doing a better job to direct my distracted ass in pack chat to avoid sus.

 

[Crayola227]

Here's the thing guys, to keep tying the game, no kill nights notwithstanding, we can't win if we don't do flips. The wolves will just keep picking us off at night. Our only chance to get them is to vote a player out EOD. I guess a no kill is better than a misyeet but I'd love to flip a wolf.

Getting cold feet on Cubs from some of the recent posts. But hard to pull trigger on Dubz.

In any case I like yeeting anyone more than myself.

 

[Viscernable]

Is there an issue with cray/Am comparability that I am missing?

Nothing substantiative, just feelz. tbh I don’t think AM would be in this jokey and “loose” of a mood while wolfing with Cray and 2 no kill nights in. They have very different wolfing philosophies that they feel strongly about so I think a pack with just the two of them would be tense.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Here's the thing guys, to keep tying the game, no kill nights notwithstanding, we can't win if we don't do flips. The wolves will just keep picking us off at night. Our only chance to get them is to vote a player out EOD. I guess a no kill is better than a misyeet but I'd love to flip a wolf.

Getting cold feet on Cubs from some of the recent posts. But hard to pull trigger on Dubz.

In any case I like yeeting anyone more than myself.

Well, I'm not thinking the tie will hold, but I was hoping to hear from Mel.

 

[Crayola227]

Nothing substantiative, just feelz. tbh I don’t think AM would be in this jokey and “loose” of a mood while wolfing with Cray and 2 no kill nights in. They have very different wolfing philosophies that they feel strongly about so I think a pack with just the two of them would be tense.

Maybe. I have a deep respect for Midwife, so except for where we disagree I also tend to follow her lead a lot of the time too. Honestly I kinda hate leading a wolf pack and generally happy to defer to anyone with more experience than I.

 

[Viscernable]

Who are you thinking she's with again?

Don’t have a specific partner in mind anymore as the likelihood of Mel/cray and cubs/cray has been bumped down in my mind. I feel she’s compatible with many people.

 

[WildZoo]

I don't think I can vote for cubs here. I don't really get Mel's reasoning, and his posts just feel very different from wolf cubs. Even his push on me feels more like...actual independent reasoning instead of the weird stuff he was thowing at me in CYO, which definitely felt more opportunistic because I was getting a fair amount of heat in general. Here it feels like a real, albeit incorrect, read.

 

[WildZoo]

But hard to pull trigger on Dubz.

Though if you do I will get to use my village brag videos...

 

[Crayola227]

The main reason Mel concerns me is I feel like we bump heads and he tries to get me yeeted more often when he's village. Wolf him at least as of late has been more agreeable with me.

This has a feel of him standing back and letting village do the dirty work and keeping his hands clean rather than getting into it with me which he knows would happen if he went for me. Unless he's really reading me village, but if so I'd like to hear more from him about the current vote and sitch.

 

[WildZoo]

Idk. I'm feeling spicy.

unvote cray vote mel

 

[Crayola227]

Like, I don't want to die, but I do see my wolf hunting abilities have been lackluster this game. As I always say, best defense is an offense in WW.

I have wolfy suspects, issue is people coming on and making good cases to defend those people (Cubs, Dubz, Mel, AM, Bob, Visc, genny, all I feel have good points for/against and I'm not feeling strongly.)

Who'd I forget?

 

[Crayola227]

The main reason Mel concerns me is I feel like we bump heads and he tries to get me yeeted more often when he's village. Wolf him at least as of late has been more agreeable with me.

This has a feel of him standing back and letting village do the dirty work and keeping his hands clean rather than getting into it with me which he knows would happen if he went for me. Unless he's really reading me village, but if so I'd like to hear more from him about the current vote and sitch.

To be fair, this analysis isn't taking any vote behavior into account. The ties not being fatal has created more ties and no flips and I feel has made it harder for me to follow VCA this game, and VCA also feels more important this game as a result.

 

[Lawpy]

D4 Fresh Doughnut Tally (version 4.6)

cubs (3) - Mels, AM, Cray
Cray (2) - bobs, vissy
WZ (2) - cubs, genny
Mels (1) - WZ

8/8 voting

@cubsrule4e is leading

Yeet close in ~19 min

 

[Viscernable]

Unvote cray

I almost want to say it’s between mel and dubz but with them incompatible it feels so risky to vote one.

 

[Crayola227]

Frak. Possible to swing it to Dubz, but there are just players so freaking hard for me to flip!

 

[Viscernable]

Feelings say Mel is wolf, but VCA begs to differ, basically

 

[WildZoo]

I'm always curious what tot chat is up to at moments like this. Like, are they screaming? Are they cheering? Are they even here?

Anyway

Unvote cray

I almost want to say it’s between mel and dubz but with them incompatible it feels so risky to vote one.

Just don't let it tie again. I'm serious. I would rather die.