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Georgetown SMP application thread for 2018-2019 class

Discussion in 'Postbaccalaureate Programs' started by Alowe, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. calvangri

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    Go to the meeting and then make a decision. It doesn’t hurt to apply to SMPs now before the deadline but I think most will tell you improve your MCAT and you’ll be in good shape. Let’s say you go all out and spend top dollar on a tutor for the MCAT, that’s $15,000 vs $85,000 for medical school prep and no guarantee of even getting into medical school. Why do a program at Gtown with the risk of it all riding on your MCAT retake? That’s $85,000 of added pressure you don’t need. And in terms of circuits and Ohm’s Law, these thing are applicable to the human body ie the cardiovascular system.
     
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  3. Fracture

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    It will totally prepare you for the preclinical years and it will definitely boost your CV, but it's not worth it just for that. You just have to figure out how to ace the MCAT. I agree with @aeryna
     
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  4. DrSoleil

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    Thank you guys for the feedback. I really do appreciate it.
     
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  5. Wolverine9518

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    Thanks a lot for the encouragement! I did apply and my GPA went up since that last class I was waiting on turned out to be an A :)

    I really need this program. My GPA needs a lot of work and I’m hoping that they’ll see my upward trend and what my recommenders had to say about me to make a decision. I’m willing to fight like hell for it and work hard if I get in. Either way, one can only hope!
     
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  6. calvangri

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    Why do you think you got rejected from GUSOM? What was the biggest weakness of your application? Was it little to no research? Little to no clinical experience? I’m just curious since these types of posts aren’t really that helpful and they just seem to stir up the anxieties of an already anxious group. Obviously, this program likely helped you since you were admitted into an MD program. It seems your post was done out of resentment for not getting into GUSOM, but that is purely conjecture.
     
  7. Mancubeagle

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    Keep in mind that this is only one year of classes, so there is a relatively small amount of credits (32 I believe). One B+ in a 3 credit course has me just under a 3.9 through 3 blocks, and I believe the highest GPA I can finish with is just under a 3.94. So while it is definitely possible, it is very difficult to finish with above a 3.9, and I wouldn't necessarily go into the program expecting to do that (I definitely didn't).

    That being said, I know several people with sub-3.0 uGPA that were accepted to great medical schools, not just Georgetown's.
     
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  8. aeryna

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    That is a really impressive GPA, congrats! Gives us a little hope it’s at least achievable.
    How did the people with lower GPAs that got accepted to good medical schools do in the program?

    Also what is your general opinion of the program so far? Only 2 people who are in it have given us their thoughts as far as I know and it’d be helpful to get as many opinions as possible. Do you feel like there is a collaborative atmosphere among the physios or is it more competitive/everyone does their own thing?
     
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  9. Mancubeagle

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    Thanks! I got lucky a few times with cutoffs, honestly.

    I was nervous at first because of the last resort element/pricetag, but I truly liked the program a lot and doubt I would have been admitted to medical school this year without it. There were a few communication issues regarding exams and assignments that I found frustrating, but nothing that you wouldn't find anywhere else, and there were a lot of things that more than made up for it. Obviously the med students should have higher priority with some things, which I'm sure everybody would feel fine about after transitioning from SMP to M1, but the other poster above claiming that we were treated as second-class citizens was just upset they weren't admitted to Georgetown. Regardless, they were admitted elsewhere, and whether they want to admit it or not, the program helped them get into medical school. Also, the email that they posted was completely reasonable - it was a few classes that the medical students were being tested on and the SMPs weren't. I'm not sure why they would attend in the first place (It's great to learn about topics in more depth, but we have plenty to do/study), let alone ask questions.

    With regards to the collaborative atmosphere, absolutely. My interviewer asked the same question because she didn't know, and she loved it because medicine is a team effort. That's why they commonly ask about how you function in a team environment and from a leadership position, and from what I can tell they're trying to get rid of things that gunners can abuse, because everybody helping each other learn is ideal for everybody. People posted apps/resources they found regularly, as well as note sets, organizational tools and lecture calendars they made. And It definitely helps that we aren't necessarily graded against each other - the only thing that's competitive is getting interviews at Georgetown itself, but I didn't see or hear of anybody being anything other than helpful to each other. Also, it was a small thing, but everybody is assigned a "big sib" at the beginning of the year, and being able to text them a question about applications or what to study every once in a while was very helpful.

    Anyway hope that helps.
     
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  10. Pool

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    You (as well as Mancubeagle) are totally mistaken if you think I am posting here just because I got rejected: an acceptance or lack of one doesn't change the fact that the SMP treated you like a second class citizen for the past eight months. Regardless of my admission decision, I would have posted my original post (although I would have done so on a throwaway without any personal identifiers). Again, let me emphasize that I have no issue with GUSOM. The SMP is the problem here.

    As for why I got rejected - I have no idea. Maybe I didn't stroke their ego hard enough in my thank you notes? I'll probably never know since Georgetown specifically tells us that they will not provide individual feedback on a decision. The only "real" reason I can think of is that the vast majority of my volunteering was done in the past two and a half years - maybe they think I was cramming it right before applications?

    Nothing I said should make you anxious, because what I say is also what the administration says. On the first day of orientation, the director emphasized that under no circumstances should you expect to get into Georgetown, even with a strong performance in the program. They specifically state that their goal is to get you into "a medical school, not necessarily Georgetown." Former SMPs who are now M1s will also tell you about 3.8+'s who got rejected.

    And I actually have no problem admitting that this program helped me get into an MD program. But any SMP could have done that. If you are considering the Georgetown SMP over other SMPs just for the slim chance of getting into GUSOM, I would advise you to temper your expectations and ask yourself if that small chance is worth the disadvantages of this program.
     
  11. bassquiat

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    For anyone filling out AACOMAS, do we have to submit a transcript from Georgetown to be complete even if we haven't started classes yet?
     
  12. calvangri

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    Well thank you for telling me how I should feel. I appreciate that you have such a grasp on my emotions.

    Now in all seriousness, the anxiety doesn’t come from the fact that it’s highly unlikely that we will be accepted into GUSOM regardless of our performance, the anxiety is from the telling of your experience of being treated as a second-class student. While my opinion doesn’t matter, I’m going to share it because I think there are some important things to point out here and I want others to consider this when reading what I believe to be as pure garbage. If you look over the last 10+ years of Gtown SMP threads, you’ll find that there is overwhelmingly more positive feedback than negative. Usually the negative reports come from two types of people: 1. Expectations didn’t meet their reality; 2. Poor performance in the program which can cause resentment and anger. I think you fall into category one because you reek of self-entitlement. When I read your reports of being treated like a second-class student, I wonder, “what were you expecting and why has this failed you in reality?” I think you expected to be treated as an equal to the M1s when in reality you aren’t an M1. So immediately you feel you’ve been discriminated against or something or another. But you haven’t. You just didn’t realize that you’re a Physio. If I understand this correctly, and please any current or former Physios chime in, SMP students are bottom feeders. We are trying to scratch and crawl and dig out from this hole of a situation we’ve gotten ourselves into and this program is giving us a platform to do just that. So excuse me for getting anxious when I read that you were all butthurt because they asked you to save your questions until after the lecture. In all honesty, you should be glad they evened opened the door to a few medical school classes to begin with because most other schools around the country don’t do this.

    This statement is just a burning pile of garbage. You do realize that Gtown’s SMP is the first and oldest of its kind, right? While I do agree with you that attending this program for the slim chance of getting into GUSOM is short sighted, I do believe that having a focal point is important. If you aim to perform at a level to get an interview at GUSOM (3.5+ SMP GPA), while it may not pay off at GUSOM, it’ll likely pay off somewhere (ugh hem...Go Bluejays?!) So to say that there are better programs to attend than Gtown is not only baseless, it’s wreckless. Could you attend an easier and cheaper program and get the same results? Possibly. Will those programs prepare you better for medical school than the gauntlet that is Gtown? Probably not.

    Thanks for your useless input @Pool and I wish you the very best at Creighton.
     
    #211 calvangri, May 4, 2018
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
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  13. Pool

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    All SMPs worth their salt do this by definition: you pay to take med school classes, as a grad student. They aren't doing this as a favor. It's not a privilege that you have to be glad about. It's just part of any decent program.

    So what? Do you think the adcom at some random school will choose the student with a 3.5 at the Gtown SMP over the guy with a 3.5 at UCincinnati SMP, just because Gtown's program is older? It's 2018, dude - other SMPs have had decades to establish themselves as equally reputable programs. Adcoms literally don't care about the rigor or prestige of one SMP over another. As the wise adcom Goro says, "SMPs are a dime a dozen." The fact that you think there is a tangible difference between the GTown SMP and Tufts or BU or Cincinnati/etc. is laughable.

    The only reckless thing here is your idealistic attitude. Everyone enters the SMP thinking that they will work really hard and prepare themselves for medical school. Many of them end up scoring only slightly better than the med students, and they end up with a 3.2. No offense but you'd have to be pretty foolish to prefer a rigorous SMP where you're graded against the meds. This is not an advantage! Again, I emphasize that adcoms don't care.

    And where did you get the delusional idea that the Gtown SMP prepares you for medical schools more effectively than other SMPs? Do you think the faculty at Gtown are magically better than the ones at Tufts, for example? You do realize Gtown literally just switched to a 1.5 year preclinical curriculum right? You do realize the meds are doing worse right now compared to previous years, right? At least for the meds, a compressed preclinical curriculum means more time for clinical stuff. But this change only hurts SMPs in terms of preparing for med school: material is covered in way less detail, and some topics are skipped altogether.

    Thanks for showing how clueless you are @calvangri, and I wish you the very best at whichever program you end up choosing.
     
  14. calvangri

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    I never said they were doing us a favor, I said be glad that these programs exist. You would likely not be in medical school without the very program you are trashing.

    Maybe not over UCincy's SMP because they have a good reputation but if you chose one outside of the originals (Gtown, BU, Cincy) then yes they would probably consider a 3.5 at one of these programs over say Tufts or Rutgers or USF because those programs are newer. They literally don't have the track record of the originals. And the link you posted went to a thread with a person looking for an easy SMP and then everyone (except you) said this is ill advised since these programs are designed to see if you can handle medical school and showcase how you do. And I never said anything about Gtown being better than BU or Cincy, but it is more reputable than most other programs, that's indisputable.

    I don't think it's foolish. Even if most people end up with a 3.2 in this program, they are still getting into schools. 85% matriculation rate with only about 5-10% going DO and maybe 1-2 students going to the Caribbean. I don't see how taking the easy road is considered an advantage. Again, the thread you linked to iterated that if you are looking for the easy route, you chose the wrong career path.

    I think it's pretty obvious that doing medical school classes will preparing someone for medical school because you will see the material twice possibly (if you don't get into GUSOM, which is likely you won't.) At this point, you are just arguing to read your own text. There are SMPs out there that don't actually take medical school classes, three programs of which I applied to: Loyola MSMP and RFU BMS (they used to but CMS changed their curriculum so now they don't.) And I know many schools have gone to the condensed pre-clinical curriculum and it has shown to have many benefits. I don't see how this hurts SMP students. They have two choices: 1. go to GUSOM and have more time to prep for boards or do research since you don't have to retake those classes; 2. go to a different program and study the material for a second time. How can either of those paths hurt an SMP?

    You just seem bitter. Who kicked your dog my friend? You should be happy, you got into a medical school. Relax, pal.

    Update: Apparently MCW MMP does take a few courses with the M1s so I removed it from the list. But Loyola MSMP and RFU still do not.
     
    #213 calvangri, May 5, 2018
    Last edited: May 8, 2018
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  15. binderpaper

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    After being accepted, how soon do you have to decide if you want to attend or not?
     
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  17. calvangri

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    Well you have to decide whether you want to pay the $500 nonrefundable deposit before the deadline. You can decide to attend up until the orientation in August. I would ask Amy though to be specific.
     
  18. Wolverine9518

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    Hi guys! So my application is technically complete, but it's showing as "Incomplete" on the web system. The only thing that is marked as "Not Received" is the transcript of my study abroad experience in Spain. However, as that program was through my home university, there is no transcript for that. Instead, it's reflected on my home university's transcript, as the grades were automatically converted to our grading scale. I emailed them to let them know about it and they emailed me back thanking me for the updates, but my application is still marked incomplete. Should I call? I don't want to come off too pushy but I want this marked under review ASAP. Thanks, everyone!
     
  19. calvangri

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    I don’t think you’ll sound pushy if you call them. This stuff is important. They get it. Call them!
     
  20. crunchysnack

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    accepted to the SMP few weeks ago and then was asked to interview for the med school? probably will turn it down. i think the SMP is better

    smooches xo
     
  21. DJ_MD

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    Submitted: 5/2
    Verified: 5/8
    Admitted: 5/9

    Dang that was quick! So Excited!!
     
  22. arc5005

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    do you mind sharing your stats?
     
  23. DJ_MD

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    Will message you, prefer not to post on here :)
     
  24. bassquiat

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    how are you guys finding roommates/places to live?
     
  25. calvangri

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    I found a group of guys using the roommates Google Sheets file made available through the google group. We then scoured the internet and found a place about a 10 minute walk from campus.
     
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  26. prettypremed12

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    3.0 ugpa,501 mcat--retaking but not in time for the july score report...is it too late to apply I know the deadline is 5/20...
     
  27. DJ_MD

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    Theme of this and other SMP threads: Shoot your shot! What have you got to lose? (aside from a comparatively small amount of money considering tuition is >50k).
     
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  28. calvangri

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    +1
     
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  29. Wolverine9518

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    Application under review as of yesterday! Fingers crossed. Every “ding” I hear now my heart stops, even if half the time it’s not Georgetown making a decision but Office Depot telling me that paper is on sale.

    Quickie here: Do you think I could email them two updates about me (promotion in lab and new volunteering opportunity) as well as a personal statement? I really don’t care for my AMCAS one looking back, and this one states why I need a Masters program before med school — it also explains my lower grades. It might be too late because it’s under review, but it also might make a difference if they’re on the fence to waitlist me. My stats are so low I’m praying for the waitlist versus rejection so at least I’d have a chance.
     
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  30. calvangri

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    It doesn’t think it’ll hurt to update them with that information. Not sure about the new personal statement but the other stuff is golden.
     
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  31. Fracture

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    Totally update with your new PS if it's truly better than what you had before. And I agree with calvangri.
     
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  32. DJ_MD

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    I submitted my acmas primary in addition to a new essay in the essay portion of the online application.

    I say do ittttt! GL :)
     
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  33. bassquiat

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    what websites did you use to find housing? I only know this one: Georgetown Off-Campus Housing Search
     
  34. Thecomposer

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    MAMS is better. I know someone who is going to Pitt Med rn who is there solely because of MAMS. I know no one from GU SMP
     
  35. aeryna

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    I found my apartment using padmapper.com. To find roommates you should use the google doc on the SMP group or the SMP facebook group.
     
  36. calvangri

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    #234 calvangri, May 17, 2018
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  37. calvangri

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    I disagree but to each their own. I’m not getting into another pool-like debate.
     
  38. Mancubeagle

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    Good enough for me! Guess I and others from the Georgetown SMP haven't gotten into medical school. Anecdotes are definitely relevant.
     
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  39. Wolverine9518

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    Thanks for the support!

    I sent in my updates (my lab hired me & I’m a new pediatric oncology volunteer) as well as my new statement. They really thanked me for sending them these updates. I’m hoping that it will show how serious/interested I am about this program. Being low on stats, I’m really relying on my extracurriculars and letters here so I’m hoping anything can help. Best of luck to everybody! I guess I’ll know in 3 weeks at the most.
     
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  40. mcb2012

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    I think think both programs are great and this is totally opinion based. I know two people at UNC Chapel Hill Med who completed the program at Georgetown and I know one person who completed the MAMS program and got in nowhere....so I think either program you chose, you have the chance to be successful but also the chance to mess it up. It's all about what you make of it.
     
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  41. mcb2012

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    Additionally, I got into MAMS myself and turned it down for Georgetown SMP. Definitely think I made the right decision.
     
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  42. Thecomposer

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    After reading that Pool got over a 3.85 GPA on the SMP and was rejected from Georgetown, that scared me far away from applying to this program. Many SMPs limit their class size so that there is a good chance for the successful students to matriculate directly (i know of at least two schools who accept 50% of the SMP class into their own school each year). Georgetown is not only more rigorous than these other schools but also way more expensive. The only (and ONLY) reason I wanted to apply to georgetown specifically is that if i slave away and do well, I am getting IN to Georgetown medical school. After seeing that people with 3.85 get rejected, that really makes me worried. I knew it was a little fishy that they had such a huge smp class size. The reason? It would appear they have little intention of accepting any significant amount of their smp students into their md program. And that is only part of why I am convinced MAMS, Drexel, UC, etc. are better.

    Please convince me otherwise so that I feel better about being 80% done with my application and submit and dont feel like Im wasting the $140 .
     
  43. calvangri

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    Anyone can come on here and present themselves as worthy candidates. I’m sure Mr. Pool isn’t devuldging every detail about his application. He could’ve went into that interview with the same attitude he has on this website, expecting them to hee and haw over him because he did so well in the SMP. Do you think he was going to share that information? He could’ve been oblivious that he may have done that. A skunk doesn’t know they stink. We will never know. GUSOM ADCOMs know and they passed on him. Like @mcb2012 said, every program is going to have successes and failures. If you judge an entire program on two negative accounts, or even scarier, if you choose a program because you heard of a few success stories, you’ll likely to be gravely disappointed. There are 2 programs with guarantees: Drexel and Temple. Tulane has a really high linkage percentage and RFU used to (and may still, program is changing). Other than that, these programs are meant to be last ditch efforts into A school, not THE school. If you have a higher percent chance of getting into medical school without doing one of these programs, do that. But since you’re here, my guess is that you need this. I would just suggest you do a little more research into every program before you make your decision.
     
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  44. Thecomposer

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    Please tell me youre kidding. DO THE INTERVIEW. Save $80k and a whole year!
     
  45. Thecomposer

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    Thanks for the reply. I guess I will apply just because it doesnt hurt too much. Because of its rigor and large class size, I would say this program is mainly meant to show OTHER med schools you are capable of the MD workload. The advantage of similar, but less well known, SMPs is that you get both the proof you can do well in med school and a 50+% chance of getting into their MD program. It's just the extra security that calms me down.

    And Pool and others said he wasnt the only 3.85+ SMP GPA to get rejected fron Georgetown. That is why it isn't likely a personality thing, right? Since others also got a rejection..It is so confusing..is it his 3.3 uGPA? Mine is around there too :( Perhaps GUSOM wants to see both strong SMP performance and at least 3.5 uGPA (given they normally take in 3.7+)
     
  46. calvangri

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    I totally agree with you that the feeling of being no better off after completing a program like this and accruing all the debt that comes with it is devastating. I’ll admit that when pool got on here to bash the program, I had a heart attack. But then I sought out a bunch of alumni, some that got into GUSOM, some that went to other places. And they all said it was hard but worth it. Their attitude was so different from pool’s that I think that’s what really did him in. Some people just have bad attitudes. We will see this someday when doing clinicals. So I came to the conclusion that there is something that pool either a) messed up and didn’t tell or b) did something he’s oblivious to. And again, I’ve heard of stories where there are 4.0/520 applicants that don’t get into medical school. Just browse SDN or r/premed. You wouldn’t judge every medical school that passed on someone like that as being crap would you? I would think that it would take extremely sucky people to run a program and have no intention to help you but only to take your money. Dr. Mulroney and Amy don’t get paid on commission. This isn’t Wolf of Medical School. I think they genuinely care to help BUT you have to help yourself too. I wouldn’t harass them or the professors if the answers could be easily found elsewhere. Or if you are asked to keep your questions to the end of lecture. Or I wouldn’t complain to them if you didn’t do as well on an exam as you’d like or thought something was unfair. I think if you really work hard, someone will notice and things will work out. That is generally how life works. It has for me anyway.
     
    #244 calvangri, May 17, 2018
    Last edited: May 18, 2018 at 7:37 AM
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  47. Mancubeagle

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    Not sure somebody that would speak so poorly about a program that helped them get into medical school out of sheer knee-jerk emotion is the best source.

    Firstly, the SMP has ~180 students, and of those roughly 150 apply to GUSOM. Around 75 are given interviews, and ~25-30 are accepted. That's close to a 20% acceptance rate. Know how many applications Georgetown gets per cycle? Over 14,000 for under 200 spots - meaning 14,000 for under 170 spots because of the SMP. I'll let you do the math on the acceptance rate there. GU also is a Jesuit institution, so fitting their mission statement is very important.

    Secondly, I know for a fact that BU, which is often done as a 2 year program, accepts a similar percentage from MAMS as GU does from the SMP, but they interview more of their students, meaning it's more competitive with your classmates. I also know somebody that completed the MAMS with over a 3.9 that was waitlisted at both GU and BU.

    Lastly, to your point about wanting to see a 3.5+ uGPA - I had a 3.31 cGPA/ 3.19 sGPA, but a strong MCAT, strong clinical experience, and strong ECs. I know of other people that had under a 3.0 uGPA that were accepted. The SMP only takes people that they think can get into medical school - if you're accepted and you put in your time you'll get in.

    Take-home: Having a high GPA coming out of the SMP helps tremendously but even with that you need a complete application (MCAT, ECs, etc.) and to perform well in the interview (which based on Pool's attitude here I doubt they did). And even with all of that, not everybody can be accepted. Most students who don't get into GU get in elsewhere, just like Pool did.
     
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  48. Thecomposer

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    Thank you for your helpful reply! Okay, I'm convinced to apply. :) One thing...about the mission statement "Georgetown is a Catholic and Jesuit, student-centered research university...", will they prefer if I am Catholic? I certainly value all the spiritual values that they mention and respect (charity, respect for all life, live in god's ways), but was born a different religion. Also, I have a 3.0 uGPA and 3.1 sGPA, but very very difficult circumstances involving my mother's health is what contributed to it. She's better now, and although I can demonstrate my mastery of the material on the MCAT (e.g. w/ ~522 practice scores), I can't go back in time and retake those classes. This is where an SMP comes in.

    In the meantime, I have a first author publication coming out this summer (5 yrs of research coming together), so hopefully that helps.
     
  49. Mancubeagle

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    I don't think they care much about actual religion of applicants, just read up on Cura Personalis and talk about how it fits your ideals with regards to practice as a future physician (if it does). Also practice MCAT scores don't mean anything gotta get that real score. Although if you do score a 510+ I'd say you have a good shot at getting into the SMP.
     
  50. ashaaban95

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    does this program guarantee an interview with the georgetown med school?
     
  51. calvangri

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    Nope. No guarantees.
     
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  52. brainacho

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    Woah. I am a current SMP at Georgetown and have experienced the EXACT opposite of what "Pool" has said. The information he has posted has been LARGELY subjective. The SMP students are often the students asking the most questions during lecture and are encouraged to ask questions. That email that he posted was from only one instance. There were pharm lectures that we were told we were not going to be tested on but could help us and we were encouraged to go to. It was strictly material that the medical students were being tested on, and that is why the SMP students were asked to save questions for later. Makes a lot of sense to me. Sure, the program is not perfect. No program will be perfect. But saying we were treated as "second-class citizens" is beyond dramatic and inaccurate. Dr. Mulroney responds to emails within minutes to hours; there are office and advising hours held very often; we are emailed and wished good luck before every exam and encouraged to do well every step of the way. Quite frankly, I have never been this nurtured by an advising staff in my life. Yes, a few of the lecture PDFs were late. Big deal.

    With that being said, it is absolutely true that if you do very well in the program, you are not guaranteed an interview and/or an acceptance. They tell you from the beginning of the year that it is NOT all about GPA. They take a holistic view of the applicant. Extracurriculars and clinical experience are extremely important if you want a shot at getting into the program.

    With regards to Biomedical Career Pathways: This class was NOT only about the Caribbean and DO schools! They are absolutely in no way trying to push their students to just go to these schools. There were presentations from George Washington, Geisinger School of medicine, and other US MD programs that are highly-regarded medical schools. There were presentations from DO and Caribbean schools, too. In my opinion, this is actually a good thing to present to SMPs, as sometimes it should be considered as an option for those who don't want to wait as long to get in or who don't really care about the name of the medical school. This was the EASIEST course to get an A in! It was a GPA booster -- don't know why it was such a big deal. There were like 5 - 7 sessions you had to go to, and if you didn't you could have made it by writing some short paragraph or something.

    As @Mancubeagle said earlier, the chances of getting into Georgetown Med out of the SMP are 20X higher than if you were a traditional applicant. This program is not for everyone, and it absolutely can be "risky," considered you're spending 80K on top of what you will be paying for medical school. However, if you do well and apply yourself, it will always benefit you -- whether it be for further application cycles or having that extra year of review for STEP 1. I took the risk and am extremely grateful for this program.
     

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