GPA 3.988, sGPA 4.0, MCAT 518, Aiming for T10-T20, Gap year advice needed

[Dumplingz]

Hi all,

Looking for some guidance on what to do moving forward. I’m in my final year of undergrad and recently got my MCAT score back (518). I have an LM 75.9 and WARS 85, conservatively. The 2017 WARS doc gave me an S level rating and recommended I make 45% of my applications to Category 1 schools (Harvard, Stanford, Hopkins, UCSF, Penn, WashU, Yale, Columbia, Duke, Chicago), which, correct me if I'm wrong, seems like a recipe for disaster.

Although I am aiming for T10 and T20, I feel like there are certain parts of my applications that would hold me back from medical schools like these. Specifically, my MCAT is usually 2-4 points below most T10 schools' median MCAT and I don’t have any pubs yet, though I’ll have a poster, presentation, and 1-2 co-author pubs (low-medium impact) most likely before I apply. Also, I feel like my non-clinical volunteering could be stronger. A majority of my hours come from volunteering in the hospital as well as a nonprofit. I know my leadership is relatively strong since I’m president of my uni’s pre-med organization and founded a nonprofit chapter at my school, but I’m not sure how med schools will view my volunteering experience with the nonprofit over the past couple of years. Basically, we go on week-long service-learning trips to impoverished communities and work in mobile clinics and community service projects. It’s a great introduction to global health disparities and genuinely provides sustainable benefits to the communities we partner with. I’ve gone on several of these trips already and continually work with these communities throughout the year, so it’s not a one-off thing.

I’m planning to apply this upcoming spring cycle, but am unsure of whether to focus on improving my research or volunteering experience during my gap year. For research, I was looking at applying to the NIH IRTA Postbacc program and doing that for the year starting this summer when I’m applying to medical school and up until I (hopefully) matriculate into medical school next year. For volunteering, I was thinking about doing either Peace Corp (with an additional gap year since it’s a 2 year program) or Americorp, since I’m pretty passionate about global health and helping low-income communities. I could also just stay in Boston (where my undergrad is) and continue doing research/volunteering here.

My question is, would it be worth it to put in the extra effort to pursue either IRTA Postbacc or Peace Corp/Americorp during my gap year? Since I would be just starting either activity at the beginning of the application cycle, would either of those activities even benefit my application? I probably wouldn’t be able to fully talk about the experiences by the time I submit primaries, so I would only be able to mention them during my secondaries and interviews. Would it be more beneficial to take an additional gap year and apply only once I have completed either option?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Is Medlife directed at impoverished communities abroad or in the US?

Did you attend an Ivy+ undergrad that has a T20 medical school?

Peace Corp is a 2 year commitment.
NIH post back is usually a 2 year commitment.
Americorp is a one year commitment.

How many clinical hours and nonclinical volunteering hours do you have?

 

[MyOdyssey]

Will your MCAT score have expired after 2 years in Peace Corp or NIH post bacc?

 

[Dumplingz]

Is Medlife directed at impoverished communities abroad or in the US?

Did you attend an Ivy+ undergrad that has a T20 medical school?

Peace Corp is a 2 year commitment.
NIH post back is usually a 2 year commitment.
Americorp is a one year commitment.

How many clinical hours and nonclinical volunteering hours do you have?

MEDLIFE is directed at impoverished communities abroad. I've partnered my chapter primarily with communities in Lima, Peru.

I did not attend an Ivy undergrad, just a T50 private uni.

I'm aware of the time-commitment for all of the opportunities, though for NIH postbacc I was thinking of trying for a 1 year commitment. I've heard they're harder to get but still available opportunities.

I have 1000+ clinical hours and ~300 nonclinical volunteering hours (200 as a hospital volunteer, 100+ with MEDLIFE, maybe 100 more in the spring in a soup kitchen).

 

[Dumplingz]

Will your MCAT score have expired after 2 years in Peace Corp or NIH post bacc?

I took my MCAT this past September, so even after 2 years in Peace Corp or NIH post bacc (if I decided to do 2 years rather than 1 year), my MCAT score should still be valid.

 

[MyOdyssey]

I took my MCAT this past September, so even after 2 years in Peace Corp or NIH post bacc (if I decided to do 2 years rather than 1 year), my MCAT score should still be valid.

Adcoms like Peace Corp and Americorp experience a lot based on my reading of many threads on SDN. Your app will be stronger for doing them.

NIH is impressive too for medical schools that care a lot about research - typically T30s.

No one should assume they can get into a T10. There are plenty of 3.9/520s who fail to receive a single acceptance from any medical school.

 

[Dumplingz]

Adcoms like Peace Corp and Americorp experience a lot based on my reading of many threads on SDN. Your app will be stronger for doing them.

NIH is impressive too for medical schools that care a lot about research - typically T30s.

No one should assume they can get into a T10. There are plenty of 3.9/520s who fail to receive a single acceptance from any medical school.

Yeah that last part is what worries me. I'm concerned about whether my app is even competitive for T10 or T20 at the moment and if I should invest additional gap years into experiences like Peace Corp/Americorp or NIH Postbacc.

 

[deleted1025488]

Investing 2 gap yeas for a chance at T10/20s is just dumb imo. Your app is strong enough (assuming appropriate clinical experience). You have leadership (assuming youre premed org actually does something) what sounds like a decent nonclinical you care about, and your research is clearly productive. Your stats are strong.

I would wager a couple II's from the T20s around your stats. In regards for the others and T10s, theres a 99% chance you waste 2 years and end up at the same school you would have ended up if you applied without them.

Gap years are meant to fill holes in an app. At this point even if you were guaranteed a T10 spot in 2 years + application year, so 2.5-3, that's still definitely not worth it considering you can probably get into a high mid tier right now.

 

[LizzyM]

You are in your final year of undergrad and not active in this application cycle so you are going to have a gap year. Although @joe32 seems to think you could get into a high mid tier right now, that ship has sailed and it is far too late in this cycle to apply. You will have a gap year so let's figure out what you should do during it.

I'd say it depends on how you want to pitch your application. If you are interested in a career in academic medicine and you are passionate about research, doing the NIH post-bacc program during the year that you are interviewing could be a boost. I've been interviewing candidates like that this year.

If you are more interested in the practice of medicine alone (not just as a portion of your broader role in academic medicine), then a service oriented gap year might be a better fit and provide a better narrative for your application and your interviews. I'd suggest something domestic like City Year/Americorps.

Peace Corps is not currently issuing invitations to serve. (The volunteers were called home in March 2020 and none have gone out since then.) If you do serve, it is a 27 month commitment including language training. It is not really possible to interview while you are serving as a volunteer so you have to wait and have an additional gap year in the States. It does not seem like a good fit with your timeline.

 

[deleted936268]

How many hours of research do you have and like LizzyM said, are you interested in academic medicine or more public health?

 

[MedHope38]

Investing 2 gap yeas for a chance at T10/20s is just dumb imo. Your app is strong enough (assuming appropriate clinical experience). You have leadership (assuming youre premed org actually does something) what sounds like a decent nonclinical you care about, and your research is clearly productive. Your stats are strong.

I would wager a couple II's from the T20s around your stats. In regards for the others and T10s, theres a 99% chance you waste 2 years and end up at the same school you would have ended up if you applied without them.

Gap years are meant to fill holes in an app. At this point even if you were guaranteed a T10 spot in 2 years + application year, so 2.5-3, that's still definitely not worth it considering you can probably get into a high mid tier right now.

If at the end of this cycle, I end up with one A from a lower ranked state med school. Should I take the A from the low ranked MD state school or go get a master degree and try again in a couple of years?

 

[deleted1025488]

If at the end of this cycle, I end up with one A from a lower ranked state med school. Should I take the A from the low ranked MD state school or go get a master degree and try again in a couple of years?

From my understanding almost all medical schools in the U.S. can get you where you want to go provided effort and work (obviously a few outlier schools and caribb) and your hypothetical situation is an absolute no. Maybe someone else can chime in with more succinct info.

 

[MyOdyssey]

If at the end of this cycle, I end up with one A from a lower ranked state med school. Should I take the A from the low ranked MD state school or go get a master degree and try again in a couple of years?

If you turn down an acceptance, you'll have to disclose that when you re-apply and it's a huge red flag.

 

[Moko]

If at the end of this cycle, I end up with one A from a lower ranked state med school. Should I take the A from the low ranked MD state school or go get a master degree and try again in a couple of years?

You should take the A and run with it. As others have said, there are no guarantees particularly when it comes to T20 admissions. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

 

[MedHope38]

You should take the A and run with it. As others have said, there are no guarantees particularly when it comes to T20 admissions. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

If you turn down an acceptance, you'll have to disclose that when you re-apply and it's a huge red flag.

Thank you! Makes sense!!

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Thank you! Makes sense!!

Consider getting an A is winning a lottery ticket. You don’t throw it away just because it’s not a megamillion winner.

 

[YCAGA]

There are plenty of 3.9/520s who fail to receive a single acceptance from any medical school.

SDN neuroticism at its finest. There are not a lot of people with sGPA 4.0 and MCAT of 518+ that do not get a single acceptance, in gross numbers or in percentage. 3.8+/517+ has a 86% acceptance rate and a 4.0 sGPA is noticeably better than a 3.8+ cGPA. OP has plenty of EC’s which we can reasonably assume sinks a large portion of the 14% that don’t get in with those stats above—they focus on GPA and MCAT and nothing else. OP also seems to plan on applying to schools throughout the top 40. Bad school lists also sink many of the 14% above.

So if it is 86% for 3.8+/517+ and we could theoretically control for very solid EC’s, no IA’s, good school list, and on time application, I would shocked if the acceptance rate didn’t approach 98-99%. The hardest part would be controlling for cluster B traits because that is something very very few people will self-report, unlike all the other stuff I mentioned.

 

[MyOdyssey]

SDN neuroticism at its finest. There are not a lot of people with sGPA 4.0 and MCAT of 518+ that do not get a single acceptance, in gross numbers or in percentage. 3.8+/517+ has a 86% acceptance rate and a 4.0 sGPA is noticeably better than a 3.8+ cGPA. OP has plenty of EC’s which we can reasonably assume sinks a large portion of the 14% that don’t get in with those stats above—they focus on GPA and MCAT and nothing else. OP also seems to plan on applying to schools throughout the top 40. Bad school lists also sink many of the 14% above.

So if it is 86% for 3.8+/517+ and we could theoretically control for very solid EC’s, no IA’s, good school list, and on time application, I would shocked if the acceptance rate didn’t approach 98-99%. The hardest part would be controlling for cluster B traits because that is something very very few people will self-report, unlike all the other stuff I mentioned.

You’re not accounting for applicants from states like CA or NY. There are also states that don’t have a public medical school. Just look at all the high stat reapplicants (515 MCAT or higher; GPA 3.8 or higher) seeking advice on SDN.

 

[YCAGA]

You’re not accounting for applicants from states like CA or NY. There are also states that don’t have a public medical school. Just look at all the high stat reapplicants (515 MCAT or higher; GPA 3.8 or higher) seeking advice on SDN.

"Just look at the few people doing XYZ on SDN" is almost never a good way to support an argument.

And not accounting how for those states how? Those states are included in the 86%/14% stats...since AAMC is a national organization...

"Mid-tier" private schools are not rejecting 4.0/518 students just because they are from CA or NY lol. I also never said anything about state schools being the key to high applicant success.

Of course there are going to be some high stat applicants that don't get in. But if you check some very reasonable boxes like EC's, no IA's, and a balanced school list, the number of high stat applicants with 0 acceptances is very very small.

 

[LizzyM]

"Just look at the few people doing XYZ on SDN" is almost never a good way to support an argument.

And not accounting how for those states how? Those states are included in the 86%/14% stats...since AAMC is a national organization...

"Mid-tier" private schools are not rejecting 4.0/518 students just because they are from CA or NY lol. I also never said anything about state schools being the key to high applicant success.

Of course there are going to be some high stat applicants that don't get in. But if you check some very reasonable boxes like EC's, no IA's, and a balanced school list, the number of high stat applicants with 0 acceptances is very very small.

Looking at AAMC table 23, in recent years, of 9,087 applicants with >3.79/>517, 1,216 did not get admitted anywhere. Based on some I've seen being interviewed as reapplicants, the cause is sometimes applications submitted too late and to too few schools. Whether 1,216 is very small or very large, it is approximately equal to the incoming class of 10 medical schools!

 

[YCAGA]

Looking at AAMC table 23, in recent years, of 9,087 applicants with >3.79/>517, 1,216 did not get admitted anywhere. Based on some I've seen being interviewed as reapplicants, the cause is sometimes applications submitted too late and to too few schools. Whether 1,216 is very small or very large, it is approximately equal to the incoming class of 10 medical schools!

I agree the number not accepted based purely on stats is pretty striking and could be considered high. But I think an applicant who submits on time to 30+ schools with a broad list has a much better than 86% chance of being accepted.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I agree the number not accepted based purely on stats is pretty striking and could be considered high. But I think an applicant who submits on time to 30+ schools with a broad list has a much better than 86% chance of being accepted.

tbh, it's kind of meaningless to talk about statistics when we deal with one particular applicant, the OP. I agree that as long as there's no skeleton in the closet, the OP should be able to get some A's from somewhere. T20's are basically icing on the cake.

 

[PotatoTots]

current 1 year IRTA here if you have any questions

 

[MyOdyssey]

current 1 year IRTA here if you have any questions

I have some questions. Are there good rental units that are within walking distance of the NIH campus in Bethesda?

What are some other places to live that are convenient to the NIH campus in Bethesda?

 

[Dumplingz]

How many hours of research do you have and like LizzyM said, are you interested in academic medicine or more public health?

It's somewhat hard to quantify my hours of research since I've done a couple of different types, some full time and some as a side project, but if I had to put a number to it, I would say 1000 hours in data analytical research that resulted in a presentation and around 600 hours in a bone research lab that may result in a pub or two before I graduate.

Honestly, I'm not sure whether I enjoy academic medicine or public health more. I think the competitive side of me enjoys the challenging aspect of academic medicine, but the other side of me that loves working with patients wants to focus on public health and underserved communities. I'm torn between both at the moment and I know that although a lot of top medical schools have a huge focus on research, many also stress the importance of working with underserved communities. That's partially why it's difficult for me to choose between an NIH postbacc or a program like Americorp.

 

[Dumplingz]

You are in your final year of undergrad and not active in this application cycle so you are going to have a gap year. Although @joe32 seems to think you could get into a high mid tier right now, that ship has sailed and it is far too late in this cycle to apply. You will have a gap year so let's figure out what you should do during it.

I'd say it depends on how you want to pitch your application. If you are interested in a career in academic medicine and you are passionate about research, doing the NIH post-bacc program during the year that you are interviewing could be a boost. I've been interviewing candidates like that this year.

If you are more interested in the practice of medicine alone (not just as a portion of your broader role in academic medicine), then a service oriented gap year might be a better fit and provide a better narrative for your application and your interviews. I'd suggest something domestic like City Year/Americorps.

Peace Corps is not currently issuing invitations to serve. (The volunteers were called home in March 2020 and none have gone out since then.) If you do serve, it is a 27 month commitment including language training. It is not really possible to interview while you are serving as a volunteer so you have to wait and have an additional gap year in the States. It does not seem like a good fit with your timeline.

Thank you for the advice! I'm definitely not looking to apply during this current cycle, so yes, I'm taking a gap year by applying in the spring semester of my senior year. I wasn't aware of Peace Corp not issuing invitations anymore, but thank you for letting me know! I suppose now I have to decide whether I want to focus more on research or volunteering. I know this is a highly personalized question, but do you have any recommendation as to which would

SDN neuroticism at its finest. There are not a lot of people with sGPA 4.0 and MCAT of 518+ that do not get a single acceptance, in gross numbers or in percentage. 3.8+/517+ has a 86% acceptance rate and a 4.0 sGPA is noticeably better than a 3.8+ cGPA. OP has plenty of EC’s which we can reasonably assume sinks a large portion of the 14% that don’t get in with those stats above—they focus on GPA and MCAT and nothing else. OP also seems to plan on applying to schools throughout the top 40. Bad school lists also sink many of the 14% above.

So if it is 86% for 3.8+/517+ and we could theoretically control for very solid EC’s, no IA’s, good school list, and on time application, I would shocked if the acceptance rate didn’t approach 98-99%. The hardest part would be controlling for cluster B traits because that is something very very few people will self-report, unlike all the other stuff I mentioned.

Thank you for sharing that information! Something I do wonder about, though, is whether we overexaggerate the factor GPA has on our application. I know having a GPA below a school's cutoff can hurt you a lot, but it seems like at T20 or even T50 schools, the majority of accepted have a 3.8+ GPA. So if everyone has that kind of GPA already, it seems like having a marginally higher GPA wouldn't really matter that much. From an admissions perspective, I've always viewed GPA as a cutoff that, once passed, had diminishing returns. But maybe I'm wrong--feel free to correct me!

 

[Dumplingz]

current 1 year IRTA here if you have any questions

How many PI's did you email before you got an interview, and how many interviews did you end up having before you got an acceptance? I've heard that finding a PI willing to take a postbacc for 1 year is exceptionally rare and that the experience can feel rushed. Do you feel pretty happy with your lab so far? Is there anything you wish you had done differently while applying to the NIH postbacc program?

 

[Dumplingz]

You are in your final year of undergrad and not active in this application cycle so you are going to have a gap year. Although @joe32 seems to think you could get into a high mid tier right now, that ship has sailed and it is far too late in this cycle to apply. You will have a gap year so let's figure out what you should do during it.

I'd say it depends on how you want to pitch your application. If you are interested in a career in academic medicine and you are passionate about research, doing the NIH post-bacc program during the year that you are interviewing could be a boost. I've been interviewing candidates like that this year.

If you are more interested in the practice of medicine alone (not just as a portion of your broader role in academic medicine), then a service oriented gap year might be a better fit and provide a better narrative for your application and your interviews. I'd suggest something domestic like City Year/Americorps.

Peace Corps is not currently issuing invitations to serve. (The volunteers were called home in March 2020 and none have gone out since then.) If you do serve, it is a 27 month commitment including language training. It is not really possible to interview while you are serving as a volunteer so you have to wait and have an additional gap year in the States. It does not seem like a good fit with your timeline.

You're right, it's definitely too late for this cycle. I am fully intending to apply next cycle in the following spring. But as I mentioned in another comment, I'm pretty torn on whether to pursue academic medicine or focus on public health. I feel like I can pitch my application either way and that choosing between the NIH post-bacc or the Americorp program is what will ultimately determine which way that is. I'm equally passionate about both sides of medicine, so is there any difference between how admissions committees view these programs? Does one contribute more strength to an application than the other?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I would say that you’re borderline for a T20 (which is actually like 30 schools) acceptance.

MCAT inflation is definitely a real phenomenon especially towards the right tail of the distribution. I think that a 518 (which don’t get me wrong is still a solid score) isn’t what it used to be. IIRC, it used to be at least 50 percentile at almost every school (back when format just changed). Now it is below the 25th percentile at some of the stats driven schools.

It would also help to get a better idea of how Adcoms will perceive your undergrad school. Top 50 private university is pretty broad. Could range from schools like Notre Dame and Rice which are seen as Ivy equivalents in some regions of the country to schools like BU that have become somewhat known for “pay to play” admissions at the undergrad level

Despite this, Apply to the top 30 and I think that you’ll get at least one acceptance. I would set the over under at 2.5.

Maybe add 10 outside of the top 30 to broaden your options if it is not a significant financial hardship.

 

[Dumplingz]

I would say that you’re borderline for a T20 (which is actually like 30 schools) acceptance.

MCAT inflation is definitely a real phenomenon especially towards the right tail of the distribution. I think that a 518 (which don’t get me wrong is still a solid score) isn’t what it used to be. IIRC, it used to be at least 50 percentile at almost every school (back when format just changed). Now it is below the 25th percentile at some of the stats driven schools.

It would also help to get a better idea of how Adcoms will perceive your undergrad school. Top 50 private university is pretty broad. Could range from schools like Notre Dame and Rice to schools like BU that have become somewhat known for “pay to play” admissions at the undergrad level

Despite this, Apply to the top 30 and I think that you’ll get at least one acceptance. I would set the over under at 2.5.

Maybe add 10 outside of the top 30 to broaden your options if it is not a significant financial hardship.

Thanks for your input! I definitely agree with your statement that a 518 isn't what it used to be (just my luck). It seems like the median MCAT has risen dramatically in the past couple of years--even the LizzyM score website is out of date on median MCAT scores for many schools!

 

[MyOdyssey]

I would say that you’re borderline for a T20 (which is actually like 30 schools) acceptance.

MCAT inflation is definitely a real phenomenon especially towards the right tail of the distribution. I think that a 518 (which don’t get me wrong is still a solid score) isn’t what it used to be. IIRC, it used to be at least 50 percentile at almost every school (back when format just changed). Now it is below the 25th percentile at some of the stats driven schools.

It would also help to get a better idea of how Adcoms will perceive your undergrad school. Top 50 private university is pretty broad. Could range from schools like Notre Dame and Rice which are seen as Ivy equivalents in some regions of the country to schools like BU that have become somewhat known for “pay to play” admissions at the undergrad level

Despite this, Apply to the top 30 and I think that you’ll get at least one acceptance. I would set the over under at 2.5.

Maybe add 10 outside of the top 30 to broaden your options if it is not a significant financial hardship.

What accounts for MCAT score creep?

 

[LizzyM]

What accounts for MCAT score creep?

Greater familiarity with the test leading to better test prep available to those who use it.

The pandemic year was tough but it sure did provide many people with nothing to do except to study so expect to see more MCAT creep in the coming year or two.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

What accounts for MCAT score creep?

I would imagine both the proliferation of study materials (more FL practice exams, better uWorld question banks etc.) and the commoditization of these materials. Pretty hard to justify charging ~300 a year for a “test prep bundle” if scores don’t naturally creep up over time.

 

[MyOdyssey]

That may explain anecdotal reports that the exam’s getting harder.

People say the AMCAS released full lengths are easier than the real deal.

The P/S section used to be all memorization based but it’s now more passage based.

The Empire is already striking back …

 

[Dumplingz]

I would say that you’re borderline for a T20 (which is actually like 30 schools) acceptance.

MCAT inflation is definitely a real phenomenon especially towards the right tail of the distribution. I think that a 518 (which don’t get me wrong is still a solid score) isn’t what it used to be. IIRC, it used to be at least 50 percentile at almost every school (back when format just changed). Now it is below the 25th percentile at some of the stats driven schools.

It would also help to get a better idea of how Adcoms will perceive your undergrad school. Top 50 private university is pretty broad. Could range from schools like Notre Dame and Rice which are seen as Ivy equivalents in some regions of the country to schools like BU that have become somewhat known for “pay to play” admissions at the undergrad level

Despite this, Apply to the top 30 and I think that you’ll get at least one acceptance. I would set the over under at 2.5.

Maybe add 10 outside of the top 30 to broaden your options if it is not a significant financial hardship.

Also to address the undergrad school thing, my school definitely isn't seen as an Ivy equivalent. Probably closest in tier to BU.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Also to address the undergrad school thing, my school definitely isn't seen as an Ivy equivalent. Probably closest in tier to BU.

I don’t think it matters that much. school prestige can’t really hurt but in some cases might be a very slight bump.

Are you from a state thats usually more competitive for IS students or are there good in state options to fall back on. If so I’d say you could just apply to the top 30 schools that don’t have extreme IS bias (Uwash, chapel hill etc.)

 

[Dral]

From my understanding almost all medical schools in the U.S. can get you where you want to go provided effort and work (obviously a few outlier schools and caribb) and your hypothetical situation is an absolute no. Maybe someone else can chime in with more succinct info.

It depends on what you mean by 'where you want to go'.

If you go to a low tier osteopathic school and your goal is ivy league orthopedics, then honestly not so much.

If you just mean "I want to go into orthopedics in general", then that is a bit more realistic.

However, as mentioned, turning down an A is not looked upon very favorably.

OP, I had similar stats (bit lower GPA and bit higher MCAT). I got interviews at schools like Cornell, UPenn, Michigan. I think you'll get the interviews. The question is converting the IIs into As.

I agree with LizzyM's advice. I believe you are in a position to pick what aligns with projected career plans more than necessarily targeting something that will get you IIs. I'd pick whatever ties things together best on your app. Interviewers/committees can often times pick apart activities done to check off a box versus activities done because the individual has a real interest.

 

[Dumplingz]

I don’t think it matters that much. school prestige can’t really hurt but in some cases might be a very slight bump.

Are you from a state thats usually more competitive for IS students or are there good in state options to fall back on. If so I’d say you could just apply to the top 30 schools that don’t have extreme IS bias (Uwash, chapel hill etc.)

Not really, my state schools aren't that strong, though there is strong IS bias for some of them. Not really too keen on going to any of the medical schools in my state, unfortunately.

 

[deleted1025488]

It depends on what you mean by 'where you want to go'.

If you go to a low tier osteopathic school and your goal is ivy league orthopedics, then honestly not so much.

Err yeah I meant it in the context of OP...declining a rank 60ish (plausible for OP) acceptance to try and secure something higher a few years later is a waste of your life.

 

[Dumplingz]

It depends on what you mean by 'where you want to go'.

If you go to a low tier osteopathic school and your goal is ivy league orthopedics, then honestly not so much.

If you just mean "I want to go into orthopedics in general", then that is a bit more realistic.

However, as mentioned, turning down an A is not looked upon very favorably.

OP, I had similar stats (bit lower GPA and bit higher MCAT). I got interviews at schools like Cornell, UPenn, Michigan. I think you'll get the interviews. The question is converting the IIs into As.

I agree with LizzyM's advice. I believe you are in a position to pick what aligns with projected career plans more than necessarily targeting something that will get you IIs. I'd pick whatever ties things together best on your app. Interviewers/committees can often times pick apart activities done to check off a box versus activities done because the individual has a real interest.

Thank you for your input! That last part was very helpful to me, and I think I'm leaning more toward a program like Americorp now since I feel like it ties my app together very nicely with the things I already have, such as Eagle scout, global health volunteering, and lots of patient care work.

 

[jhmmd]

SDN neuroticism at its finest. There are not a lot of people with sGPA 4.0 and MCAT of 518+ that do not get a single acceptance, in gross numbers or in percentage. 3.8+/517+ has a 86% acceptance rate and a 4.0 sGPA is noticeably better than a 3.8+ cGPA. OP has plenty of EC’s which we can reasonably assume sinks a large portion of the 14% that don’t get in with those stats above—they focus on GPA and MCAT and nothing else. OP also seems to plan on applying to schools throughout the top 40. Bad school lists also sink many of the 14% above.

So if it is 86% for 3.8+/517+ and we could theoretically control for very solid EC’s, no IA’s, good school list, and on time application, I would shocked if the acceptance rate didn’t approach 98-99%. The hardest part would be controlling for cluster B traits because that is something very very few people will self-report, unlike all the other stuff I mentioned.

True, it is unlikely that people will disclose cluster B personality disorders. But this is a red herring.

No one should assume they can get into a T10. There are plenty of 3.9/520s who fail to receive a single acceptance from any medical school.

The first sentence is 100% true (because I said so)? The second sentence is more improbable.

 

[jhmmd]

Thank you for your input! That last part was very helpful to me, and I think I'm leaning more toward a program like Americorp now since I feel like it ties my app together very nicely with the things I already have, such as Eagle scout, global health volunteering, and lots of patient care work.

Yea you will need a "hook" (or theme) that ties your application together, especially if you are aiming for a top 20 school. This is the conventional wisdom and has been for years. Start working on your theme and make like an essay, hook intro 3 points and conclusion, so that you're ready for interviews. Be ready to speak about your experiences and what you have learned from them. I agree that schools like U Penn and U of M might be a bit of reach, but your stats are great, so why not give it a try?

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Hi all,

Looking for some guidance on what to do moving forward. I’m in my final year of undergrad and recently got my MCAT score back (518). I have an LM 75.9 and WARS 85, conservatively. The 2017 WARS doc gave me an S level rating and recommended I make 45% of my applications to Category 1 schools (Harvard, Stanford, Hopkins, UCSF, Penn, WashU, Yale, Columbia, Duke, Chicago), which, correct me if I'm wrong, seems like a recipe for disaster.

Although I am aiming for T10 and T20, I feel like there are certain parts of my applications that would hold me back from medical schools like these. Specifically, my MCAT is usually 2-4 points below most T10 schools' median MCAT and I don’t have any pubs yet, though I’ll have a poster, presentation, and 1-2 co-author pubs (low-medium impact) most likely before I apply. Also, I feel like my non-clinical volunteering could be stronger. A majority of my hours come from volunteering in the hospital as well as MEDLIFE. I know my leadership is relatively strong since I’m president of my uni’s pre-med organization and founded the MEDLIFE chapter at my school, but I’m not sure how med schools will view my volunteering experience with MEDLIFE over the past couple of years. If you’re unfamiliar with MEDLIFE, basically we go on week-long service-learning trips to impoverished communities and work in mobile clinics and community service projects. It’s a great introduction to global health disparities and genuinely provides sustainable benefits to the communities we partner with. I’ve gone on several of these trips already and continually work with these communities throughout the year, so it’s not a one-off thing.

I’m planning to apply this upcoming spring cycle, but am unsure of whether to focus on improving my research or volunteering experience during my gap year. For research, I was looking at applying to the NIH IRTA Postbacc program and doing that for the year starting this summer when I’m applying to medical school and up until I (hopefully) matriculate into medical school next year. For volunteering, I was thinking about doing either Peace Corp (with an additional gap year since it’s a 2 year program) or Americorp, since I’m pretty passionate about global health and helping low-income communities. I could also just stay in Boston (where my undergrad is) and continue doing research/volunteering here.

My question is, would it be worth it to put in the extra effort to pursue either IRTA Postbacc or Peace Corp/Americorp during my gap year? Since I would be just starting either activity at the beginning of the application cycle, would either of those activities even benefit my application? I probably wouldn’t be able to fully talk about the experiences by the time I submit primaries, so I would only be able to mention them during my secondaries and interviews. Would it be more beneficial to take an additional gap year and apply only once I have completed either option?

The key here is you need to have a hook to differentiate yourself from others in the pool. I think you can expand a lot on your MedLife experience and make that into the main thread of your narrative. Namely, start with why you wanted to found it at your school, what difficulty you faced while founding it, how you recruited others, and what you experienced while serving. Then you can segue into what you want to do in medicine moving forward. You have enough to work on. It's really about the presentation. Your MCAT is not the best for T20's but it's enough. I would focus a bit more on research now since your volunteering is quite strong. but when you write your application, pick a lane. In other words, don't say "I want to be the greatest global health expert and also a frontier researcher in cancer gene therapy." Very naive and pompous. Say something like "you love to continue the path of global health and want to have more research experience in the future to expand treatment possibilities for poor communities."

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

True, it is unlikely that people will disclose cluster B personality disorders. But this is a red herring.


The first sentence is 100% true (because I said so)? The second sentence is more improbable.

3.9's/520+ without any distinguishing characters usually ended up at schools like Geisel, Hofstra, and Alpert, i.e., mid-tier stat wh0res.

 

[MyOdyssey]

3.9's/520+ without any distinguishing characters usually ended up at schools like Geisel, Hofstra, and Alpert, i.e., mid-tier stat wh0res.

I thought Geisel and Alpert liked "quirky" candidates.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I thought Geisel and Alpert liked "quirky" candidates.

And high stats who have nowhere else to go. Geisel, especially, makes up its class almost exclusively from WL.

 

[jhmmd]

And high stats who have nowhere else to go. Geisel, especially, makes up its class almost exclusively from WL.

Oh dear

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Oh dear

That's what I was told by the upperclassmen when I interviewed there. They usually offer 90 admissions (their total allowed seats) and then start pulling people from WL to keep their yield decent.

 

[MyOdyssey]

And high stats who have nowhere else to go. Geisel, especially, makes up its class almost exclusively from WL.

Did you pick this up from MSAR?

It's be good to have this kind of insight into all the medical schools. What is the source of your insights?

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Did you pick this up from MSAR?

It's be good to have this kind of insight into all the medical schools. What is the source of your insights?

see above. I know numerous people there who got their A's in early August at Geisel.