Having a 'W' on your transcript

[studyhard45]

Hi I'm currently thinking about dropping a course from my schedule because it's become too stressful and difficult. The course is an engineering course and not anything required for medical school. Currently I have a 3.7 GPA and 2 more years of school left but I'm afraid having a W or a C on my transcript will affect my admissions tremendously.
Would you guys recommend I stay in the class and get a C or drop it with a W?

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[Toutie]

Hi I'm currently thinking about dropping a course from my schedule because it's become too stressful and difficult. The course is an engineering course and not anything required for medical school. Currently I have a 3.7 GPA and 2 more years of school left but I'm afraid having a W or a C on my transcript will affect my admissions tremendously.
Would you guys recommend I stay in the class and get a C or drop it with a W?

A W is better than a C...especially for a course you don't need.

 

[futurephysician57]

One will not kill you but multiple will. Keep it minimal

 

[UreterIHardlyKnowHer]

I had a C, two C+'s, and a W. Thanks in part to a good MCAT, I got 11 interview invites. It isn't the biggest deal my dude.

 

[ortnakas]

One W or C won't kill you. A pattern of them might.

 

[smr]

One will not kill you but multiple will. Keep it minimal

As long as you have a good explanation, W's (even multiple W's) won't kill anything and they are certainly better than a low GPA. I had 5 W's and 19 IIs including top 20s.

 

[mwsapphire]

^ The original point of a W is health reasons, or other outside factors, but now universities encourage kids to W instead of taking a sub-C grade. My school's website says W's are for when you think you might fail a class. Profs encourage pre meds to W instead of taking a D and re-taking. A W>>C , especially if you don't have any W's.

Gonnif is right, but that's not the only thing W's are for nowadays.

 

[Welshman]

Out of fear of making Gonnif hate me I wasn't going to post my W experience but oh well.
I had a much longer post written out going into contextual details but I decided short and sweet would be better.

Freshman year there was one class that, by the W drop deadline, I was going to get at best a B- but likely in the C range. I knew that this due to the prof's odd grading scheme (that I figured out too late) and wasn't predictive of my abilities in the class. Ultimately, I decided to drop the class, planning to retake it over the summer, rather than punish my GPA even more (3.2 at the time). Determined to get an A (because if I didn't it would look terrible) retaking helped me realize my studying mistakes and ultimately, getting that A gave me the academic confidence and motivated me going into the fall. I then killed it that fall which set the tone for the rest of undergrad.

Summary: Getting a C would have been incredibly demoralizing academically. Instead, I waved a white flag, withdrew, reanalyzed my strategy and counter-attacked in the summer. This small summer victory reinvigorated me, leading to larger successes in the Fall and ultimately propelling my success for the rest of college.

Moral of the story: withdraw only if you know you can get an A when you retake it later or if it is going to kill your GPA and is a non-necessary elective.

Also after re-reading the OP's question, I'm not sure if what I wrote is exactly applicable but it might be useful to any newcomers who know how to use the search function.. and I spent a long time writing it so...

 

[smr]

Personally, I think taking a W for a single class simply because you may get a C is abuse of what withdrawals are for, but I am apparently the oldtimer on here. If you need to redo the course for your major, you simply will add stress at a later date. A C or W wont matter.

Terrible advice. A single bad grade, especially in an important class, could certainly matter in the end. Perhaps it won't, but why take the chance if you have another option at your disposal?

 

[begoood95]

a single C will never make a difference.
The ethics of using a withdrawal, a method intended for external forces causing academic issues simply because a premed cant fathom a grade of C, is questionable at best. Anytime I see a single W in term on an application, I make a note of it

I (nor you) could obviously not comment on the practices of the many admissions committee members reading applications, but I could hardly imagine that a majority of them agree with your statement, so I would tend to give the advice others have here: take the W if you think you're going to get a grade unsatisfactory to you -- with the caveat that you should be 110% certain that you'll ace it next time around.

Sure, you make note of every W you see, as I'm sure others do. You probably also -- to a greater extent and with much more weight -- make note of an applicant's GPA as well. One C can make a dent, depending on how many hours you have, and bringing that GPA back up is much harder than the reverse. I would therefore suggest taking the W over the C, especially over a D, and I can't think of one reason not to take a W over an F -- regardless of externalities. That phat 0.0 does no good to your GPA, which is very much a currency for medical school admissions, despite a holistic review.

edit: This doesn't mean I think one C is damning in any way. I'm just saying it may be better to take a W, given an isolated event of either is neutral in the eyes of adcomms. Might as well take the 100% neutral route versus the 90% neutral one. W's don't affect GPA -- C's do.

 

[smr]

a single C will never make a difference.
The ethics of using a withdrawal, a method intended for external forces causing academic issues simply because a premed cant fathom a grade of C, is questionable at best. Anytime I see a single W in term on an application, I make a note of it

Yeah... premeds can't fathom getting a C being adcoms will happily use a C as a reason to prevent said premed from becoming a doctor. Pretty simple stuff.

All I can say is thank God I made it through all this nonsense and to anyone who is not through it yet, do whatever it takes (within the laws of course) and use whatever means to keep your GPA up. Numbers always matter, regardless of what anyone says.

 

[michpicc15]

I have a W on my transcript and it was never mentioned in any of my interviews!

 

[futurephysician57]

It's borderline to use W for a C in a elective. I would use a W if I was failing

 

[smr]

Your extensive experience as an adcom brings you to do that conclusion, huh?

Not going to ruin this person's thread with pointless arguing and personal attacks. You gave awful, unequivocally bad advice, hopefully the OP and others will overlook it.

 

[Welshman]

Not going to ruin this person's thread with pointless arguing and personal attacks. You gave awful, unequivocally bad advice, hopefully the OP and others will overlook it.

You're right, I trust your 110 posts over his 10,804 any day, he has clearly spent the past 7 years ruining pre-med's GPAs.

His signature should actually read:
1973 "I am not a crook" -- Richard Nixon
1998 "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" -- Bill Clinton
2017 "I have nothing to do with Putin" -- Donald Trump
2017 "A C or W wont matter" -- @gonnif

 

[mwsapphire]

Your extensive experience as an adcom brings you to do that conclusion, huh?

Woooahh, Gonnif bringing out the salt XD
All he's saying is that dropping his gpa makes him more nervous than taking a W, we work way to hard to have one D sink our gpa.

 

[mwsapphire]

You're right, I trust your 110 posts over his 10,804 any day, he has clearly spent the past 7 years ruining pre-med's GPAs.

His signature should actually read:
1973 "I am not a crook" -- Richard Nixon
1998 "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" -- Bill Clinton
2017 "I have nothing to do with Putin" -- Donald Trump
2017 "A C or W wont matter" -- @gonnif

The question here was a C vs W. I have seen postings where students worry about a B or W. And the argument that was made for the W here was that a single C will sink an applicant. That is simply incorrect. No applicant will be rejected for having a single C.

Fair enough.
But it was still salty XD

 

[smr]

Woooahh, Gonnif bringing out the salt XD
All he's saying is that dropping his gpa makes him more nervous than taking a W, we work way to hard to have one D sink our gpa.

This is a major problem on SDN that people rarely discuss. All the premeds here are terrified to offend anyone they think might hurt their chances of getting into med school so any time one of the long time posters (goro for example) makes a post, everyone just assumes what they say is sacrosanct. Unfortunately, this is not the case and many have said things that are simply ridiculous. I had a girl PM me her suggestions because she said she didn't want to be attacked on my thread about outfits for interviews, which was basically just asking about acceptable suit styles, it's insane. And these more established posters, some of whom are apparently adcoms (a frightening thought) only make it worse with their constant snarky and arrogant attitudes.

Regardless of how many posts this person has, it is simply incorrect to say that a C, which is a legitimately bad grade in this process, is better than a W which obviously has no effect on your GPA. In the end, it could certainly affect your GPA (especially sGPA if a science class), so why take the chance? I'm speaking as a person who has 5 W's on their transcript, just went through this whole process and ended up with 19 interview invites and so far, 5 acceptances (including to top 20s/10s).

 

[mwsapphire]

This is a major problem on SDN that people rarely discuss. All the premeds here are terrified to offend anyone they think might hurt their chances of getting into med school so any time one of the long time posters (goro for example) makes a post, everyone just assumes what they say is sacrosanct. Unfortunately, this is not the case and many have said things that are simply ridiculous. I had a girl PM me her suggestions because she said she didn't want to be attacked on my thread about outfits for interviews, which was basically just asking about acceptable suit styles, it's insane. And these more established posters, some of whom are apparently adcoms (a frightening thought) only make it worse with their constant snarky and arrogant attitudes.

Regardless of how many posts this person has, it is simply incorrect to say that a C, which is a legitimately bad grade in this process, is better than a W which obviously has no effect on your GPA. In the end, it could certainly affect your GPA (especially sGPA if a science class), so why take the chance? I'm speaking as a person who has 5 W's on their transcript, just went through this whole process and ended up with 19 interview invites and so far, 5 acceptances (including to top 20s/10s).

Gonnif is an "old timer" , he's a retired AdCom. Back when he started working, Ws were intended to account for outside factors that affect performance, so he's saying he doesn't like the idea of people using them to prevent a bad grade, but it isn't a deal breaker.
He literally said that he realizes most members on here won't agree with him ( I think other AdComs have disagreed with him on this, if memory serves. They did , respectfully, though.
You may disagree , but you don't have to disrespectful.

 

[leonardoson]

I would continue taking the course, for your own educational development. Courses that are based in physics are hard. This is due to the problem solving skills they are helping you develop, and the logical thinking you have to carry out to solve homework sets and applying the knowledge on exams. We are in college to better ourselves right? This may be an idealistic viewpoint, but I doubt one C is an app killer. You are becoming a smarter individual by taking this course. Don't give up, it's helping you develop as a thinker.

 

[getAsordietrying]

My personal experience OP: I used to visit this website once in a while in the past and I did not know that W's can be easily submitted for classes to "cover up" a bad grade.
Last year I had a GPA between 3.7 and 3.8, after the quarter with Ochem II I barely managed to get a C, and even though I got a C I sacrificed a good deal of time for my other bio classes. This was the only quarter I did not get an A in any of my classes and typically my worst quarter ends up with one B or B+, but usually either As or A-s.

My GPA fell by 0.2 and due to this I am now taking two gap years when I graduate instead of 1 as I will forestall my MCAT prep and application cycle in order to do more full science quarters and for taking full loads during the summer.

I learned a lot from my experience over the past year and it pushed my capabilities beyond what I thought was my limits. I'm someone who is open to taking small instances of failure to learn and improve myself, but this failure potentially ruined my chances of being competitive for a top medical school. Now I have to struggle to get up to and maintain a GPA respective of median matriculants and an MCAT score equivalent to what is required for top 5 schools.

Cliffs: Take the W if you're getting a C in a class that is 2 or more units. Do I regret not taking a W? Yes and no, more on the no side from now but will venture to the yes side depending on how my application works out.

 

[Welshman]

Hmm maybe the purpose of my posts got lost in the milieu.. My W was in a required course, so rather than letting me run away from a difficult course, it allowed me to correct the fatal mistakes I blindly walked into and knew that I wouldn't make a second time. Standing alone I agree a W or a C won't make a difference, but I viewed a W -> A in the same course as a bit more favorable to a C.
And in regard to an elective class maybe switching to P/F would be the better answer rather than a W.

Of course, these are just a pre-med's opinions

Also, maybe my sarcasm was lost in the text but I was on your side for my second post lol, @gonnif

 

[mwsapphire]

Hmm maybe the purpose of my posts got lost in the milieu.. My W was in a required course, so rather than letting me run away from a difficult course, it allowed me to correct the fatal mistakes I blindly walked into and knew that I wouldn't make a second time. Standing alone I agree a W or a C won't make a difference, but I viewed a W -> A in the same course as a bit more favorable to a C.
And in regard to an elective class maybe switching to P/F would be the better answer rather than a W.

Of course, these are just a pre-med's opinions

Also, maybe my sarcasm was lost in the text but I was on your side for my second post lol, @gonnif

That's true- that's basically my story with orgo ( although its more like A-....out prof does this thing where even with the bonus, an A starts at a 95 so lots of people get A-'s but very few people get A's?Bizarre.)

 

[akwho]

I got a W in yoga and they still let me into med school. Don't sweat it bro.

 

[Grind24/7]

I am currently a sophomore, I took calc 1 my freshmen year 1st semester but then withdrew from it. I retook it and got an A-. I took Calc 2 at a community college and I am now currently taking Calc 3. I don't think I will do well in the class. I will finalize my decision based on the upcoming midterm. If i withdraw again, how will it look to medical school. I know that above Calc 2 is not needed, but my major requires it.

 

[Goro]

Take the W

 

[MyOdyssey]

This is a major problem on SDN that people rarely discuss. All the premeds here are terrified to offend anyone they think might hurt their chances of getting into med school so any time one of the long time posters (goro for example) makes a post, everyone just assumes what they say is sacrosanct. Unfortunately, this is not the case and many have said things that are simply ridiculous. I had a girl PM me her suggestions because she said she didn't want to be attacked on my thread about outfits for interviews, which was basically just asking about acceptable suit styles, it's insane. And these more established posters, some of whom are apparently adcoms (a frightening thought) only make it worse with their constant snarky and arrogant attitudes.

Regardless of how many posts this person has, it is simply incorrect to say that a C, which is a legitimately bad grade in this process, is better than a W which obviously has no effect on your GPA. In the end, it could certainly affect your GPA (especially sGPA if a science class), so why take the chance? I'm speaking as a person who has 5 W's on their transcript, just went through this whole process and ended up with 19 interview invites and so far, 5 acceptances (including to top 20s/10s).

You obviously have a strong academic record to have had so much success.

How did you manage to rack up 5 Ws out of curiosity?

Was there anything about your application that helped outweigh the 5 Ws?

And also, didn't any ad coms ask you about the 5 Ws in your many interviews?

 

[tanbrucewayne]

I got have a W in my app, only been asked about it once on interviews so not a big deal op

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I have over 20 Ws on my transcripts. Hasn’t stopped me from getting 3 IIs out of 5 secondaries. Granted they were from years ago, but it just goes to show you if you put some distance between them, even dozens of Ws won’t necessarily keep you down.

Oh, and I’ve only been asked about them once.

 

[theswoledoc]

I had a W on my application, and it has never come up in any of my interviews. I don't think one is going to do anything for you, as long as you don't let it become a pattern.