I would go with APA internship match rates (want to really get an APA accredited one and therefore be able to have better chance at competitive postdocs, jobs, etc.). Locations is bottom priority because you will be way too busy anyways.
"Help me decide" mega thread
- Thread starter IcedBennu
- Start date
-
- Tags
- choosing programs clinical psychology cw liu post george washington university help deciding liu clinical psyd liu post liu post psyd liu psyd long island university psyd pacific pacific university psy.d psychology psyd sopp the wright institute university of hartford university of hartford clinical university of hartford psyd wright state wright state university
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2017
- Messages
- 16
- Reaction score
- 7
I don't know. I got a few grad school offers to solid clinical PhD programs and decided to go with my intuition about which school was best based on interview and how it felt, etc -- instead of picking a school with a more prestigious name and a better location. In the end of the day I was pretty busy/miserable at the less good school I had felt so good about during interviews...sometimes i wonder if i made the right choice? California sure would've been nice...
Just wondering your thoughts on Pepperdine Psy.D.. generally good reputation? Do people tend to roll their eyes at someone with this degree behind closed doors, as they might with those who have degrees from Alliant/Agrosy/Chicago School? I do qualify for tuition aid, so I am concerned more about having a useful and respected degree at the end of five years. Thanks for your help.
It's a very conservative and religious school. If you are okay with that you may like it. Just know that going in.
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2015
- Messages
- 2,603
- Reaction score
- 2,803
How much "tuition aid" are you talking about?
Scholarships - Pepperdine University - Graduate School of Education and Psychology
PsyD in Clinical Psychology | Doctor of Psychology in Clinical Psychology Degree Program | Pepperdine University GSEP
82*$1,510 = $123,820
$123,820 * 0.75 = $92,865
$92,865 for tuition alone is still quite expensive after scholarships are applied.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2018
- Messages
- 1
- Reaction score
- 0
It's funny - discuss a problem in 5 years)
This boy maybe has finished studying at all. But I want to say my opinion.
I want to wish all students to believe only their inner voice and go to the institution that is closer to your liking. Very often relatives, parents are mistaken, and we spend a lot of time in the empty. Because of personal experience, I can say that it's very sad, to realize after 5 years of training that everything was in vain.
This boy maybe has finished studying at all. But I want to say my opinion.
I want to wish all students to believe only their inner voice and go to the institution that is closer to your liking. Very often relatives, parents are mistaken, and we spend a lot of time in the empty. Because of personal experience, I can say that it's very sad, to realize after 5 years of training that everything was in vain.
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2015
- Messages
- 2,603
- Reaction score
- 2,803
huh?It's funny - discuss a problem in 5 years)
This boy maybe has finished studying at all. But I want to say my opinion.
I want to wish all students to believe only their inner voice and go to the institution that is closer to your liking. Very often relatives, parents are mistaken, and we spend a lot of time in the empty. Because of personal experience, I can say that it's very sad, to realize after 5 years of training that everything was in vain.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Messages
- 18,025
- Reaction score
- 23,762
If you're going for an academic route the whole way, the gero track program may be the way to go. With the caveat that you will also publish more there in your area than the other, more generalist program. Look at the research productivity of the POIs and their students in recent history, who is getting out more pubs (as long as they are quality journals)?
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2018
- Messages
- 44
- Reaction score
- 28
Hi everyone! Right now, my 2 top choices for PsyD programs would be University of Hartford and LIU Post. I, of course, have to see where I get in, but if I were to be optimistic and had a choice... which should I choose?
I love LIU Post for their supportive environment, faculty, trauma team, dual emphasis on CBT/psychoanalysis, DBT opportunities, values, and got an overall good feeling at the interview.
I love Hartford for their child/adolescent track, emphasis on working with the underserved, faculty interests, the wide range of settings to work in, etc. I also had an overall good feeling at the interview.
Basically, both programs have unique aspects I really love. One thing I wonder with LIU is if there is a sense of community there. If the majority of students are commuting from afar, will I be able to make friends I can actually spend time with? Hartford typically has students living in apartments nearby. I'd love to hear thoughts others may have!
I love LIU Post for their supportive environment, faculty, trauma team, dual emphasis on CBT/psychoanalysis, DBT opportunities, values, and got an overall good feeling at the interview.
I love Hartford for their child/adolescent track, emphasis on working with the underserved, faculty interests, the wide range of settings to work in, etc. I also had an overall good feeling at the interview.
Basically, both programs have unique aspects I really love. One thing I wonder with LIU is if there is a sense of community there. If the majority of students are commuting from afar, will I be able to make friends I can actually spend time with? Hartford typically has students living in apartments nearby. I'd love to hear thoughts others may have!
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2010
- Messages
- 9,318
- Reaction score
- 5,582
Mod Note: Merged into the "Help Me Decide" sticky.
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2013
- Messages
- 2,263
- Reaction score
- 2,638
Hartford has a mean 6.2 years to complete with an average cost of 26k per year and a limited number of stipends (lets call it 156k total cost for tuition excluding books and any other living expenses you have to take loans for) and APA match rates ranging from 58% to 100% over the last 7 years (98/100 the last two years). The average match rate is around 75%, which is bad. Not all of those are paid internships. That seems like a horrible choice given the financial cost and what that means for long term earnings.
LIU indicates that they offer some form of assistantship to most students, but the amount paid for the assistantship is well below (9-15k max a year) the amount owed for tuition (25k a year for years 1-3, and then approximately 14k afterwards + fees + insurance). So you're better off on basic loans than Hartford, but you're still promising yourself to walk out with 100k+ of loans so I wouldn't get excited since that means an average starting sallary 60-65k of a psychologist is gonna leave you earning about 45k (or less) before tax for the first ten years... a substantial cut on an already low salary given the spent cost in time. The match rate is consistently higher than Hartford (closer to 85% on average) but rarely breaks 90% in the last 10 years, and that should also send off some red flags.
You should always hear warning bells when the programs direct (on their websites) how to get early loan payments to cover basic living expenses (LIU).
I would take a full time job for a year and volunteer in a research lab, with clinical opportunities (suicide hotline, whatever), open myself geographically and program wise and then apply to programs that aren't going to restrict my longterm earnings as both of these programs do. I doubt either are going to get a great recommendation from anyone here for the reasons above.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2018
- Messages
- 6
- Reaction score
- 0
I need help gaining insight into how well respected the following three Counseling Psychology PhD's are in terms of clinical training: UCSB's Combined program in Clinical, Counseling, and School PhD, Arizona State University's Counseling PhD, and UT Austin's Counseling PhD. I've been accepted to SB and Austin and just waiting on ASU but as someone coming with a research-only oriented background I wasn't sure what to look for in terms of great clinical training and don't have any mentors in the field practicing to provide any input. Research wise I know the programs strengths and weaknesses (but if anyone has any input in this regard that'd be great too) just seeing if clinical-wise there is a clear cut ranking between them.
I don't really know much about any of the schools, although we did just hire a new faculty member and he recently graduated from ASU. I went to his job talk and his research was very sophisticated and he answered every question, even the SUPER hard ones from our statistics expert, well. This doesn't help you on the clinical end but normally if a program can put out tenure track calibre students, they can probably put ensure those students are meeting their clinical benchmarks so as to look like solid, well rounded candidates.
On a more helpful end, here are some things to look for when it comes to clinical training at a doctoral program:
- Do they have a dedicated Director of Clinical Training? Or is that individual wearing a lot of hats? For example, is their DCT also a research faculty member who has their own advisees or is their sole job to teach classes and be the DCT? This can sometimes indicate how much emphasis the program places on clinical training.
- Does the site have its own in-house clinic? When a site has its own in-house clinic, that normally covers your 1st practicum experience. It's nice because it means you don't need to apply the first year, you know the program has deep enough roots to build up its own clinic, and your foundational training should be uniform and solid because it's run by an APA accredited program that has a vested interest and making sure you get the 1st year training you need to be competitive for the following year of practicum applications. I will say that it's not TERRIBLE if they do not have an in-house clinic. It just means more work for you. It may be more of a problem if they don't have an in-house clinic AND they don't have a dedicated DCT.
- Think about what you want to do clinically and decide if that school is in a diverse enough area to provide LOTS of practicum opportunities. ALSO, how well do their students match into those places? It seems like all of your choices are in major cities so you probably wont need to worry too much about this, but that might also mean you'll be competing with lots of other schools for the same spots. At some point in either 3rd or 4th year you will need to apply for practicums and branch out of your school. You wanna know you're in an area where they offer opportunities that will prepare you for the internship you want and that the school has a history of matching their trainees at these places.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2018
- Messages
- 6
- Reaction score
- 0
Thank you for sharing this info! While I was interviewing they mentioned 3 alumni recently secured TT positions which was very reassuring.
This is great stuff to consider, I should be able to find most of this information going through the program's handbooks and asking some of the students follow-up questions. This was very helpful thank you very much.
No problem! Good luck!
Hi I applied for Fall 2018 Psy.D. programs. I live in Northern California so I have a pretty good sense of the Nor Cal schools and their reputations in comparison to one another, but not so much for Southern California schools and how they compare. (Obviously I will make this decision on a variety of factors and on my own later, but I would love to get perspective on reputations, etc.).
Any insight would be helpful on the following schools (especially in comparison to one another):
Loma Linda University
University of La Verne
Wright Institute
Azusa Pacific University
I applied for Fall 2018 Psy.D. programs. I live in Northern California so I have a pretty good sense of the Nor Cal schools and their reputations in comparison to one another, but not so much for Southern California schools and how they compare. (Obviously I will make this decision on a variety of factors and on my own later, but I would love to get perspective on reputations, etc.). Any insight would be helpful on the following schools (especially in comparison to one another):
Loma Linda University
University of La Verne
Wright Institute
Azusa Pacific University
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2015
- Messages
- 2,603
- Reaction score
- 2,803
They're all expensive and don't have great licensure or match rates, though Loma Linda suspiciously jumped from 47% to 100% in the past two years. Did they add a captive internship?Hi
Any insight would be helpful on the following schools (especially in comparison to one another):
Loma Linda University
University of La Verne
Wright Institute
Azusa Pacific University
I am in a bit of a predicament. I applied to PsyD and PhD programs in Clinical Psychology as well as Rutgers' MSW/PhD Social Work joint program at the recommendation of a former faulty member who said that I have a strong passion for including social justice framework into my psychotherapy, that social work might be a good option and leading to an LCSW would make just as strong a therapist.
I was accepted into PCOM's PsyD program and am waiting on another PsyD. I received a decent funding package to cover basically 1.5 years of 5 years.
I was accepted into the joint MSW/PhD at Rutgers in Social Work. I received full funding for my coursework plus grad assistantship position
Here's my concern: I really see myself as a clinician. My background is in academia so the idea of doing research is exciting but not my ultimate endgame, at least at the moment. The Rutgers' PhD portion of the joint program is policy- research focused, which does fit me better than say a quantitative psychology PhD. That said- i think my training as a clinician would be stronger at PCOM
Any thoughts? Words of advice?
I was accepted into PCOM's PsyD program and am waiting on another PsyD. I received a decent funding package to cover basically 1.5 years of 5 years.
I was accepted into the joint MSW/PhD at Rutgers in Social Work. I received full funding for my coursework plus grad assistantship position
Here's my concern: I really see myself as a clinician. My background is in academia so the idea of doing research is exciting but not my ultimate endgame, at least at the moment. The Rutgers' PhD portion of the joint program is policy- research focused, which does fit me better than say a quantitative psychology PhD. That said- i think my training as a clinician would be stronger at PCOM
Any thoughts? Words of advice?
Have you compared the student handbooks for each program? LCSWs provide therapy as well, so examining the two programs to see how in depth the clinical training programs actually are could be a good starting point in making your decision. Compare what classes you will be taking from each school. Is it possible for you to also speak to current students in both programs to get a better sense of the clinical training in each? I've met a number of LCSWs who got their degrees from Rutgers, and they have all said excellent things regarding their training program.
Also, funding is an important factor to consider as well. You said PCOM is giving you 1.5 years of funding for a 5 year program. How much debt will you accumulate towards the end of the program? How are you able to accommodate living expenses while in school? Both programs are intensive and won't really allow for a job, so that is also an important thing to consider.
Thanks - this is helpful. I do need to speak with some current students to get a sense of the clinical training.
I'd likely accumulate somewhere in the 70k range for PsyD and likely less, maybe 40K at Rutgers for living expenses only over the course of time.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Messages
- 18,025
- Reaction score
- 23,762
That PCOM estimate of debt seems a bit low. Especially if you factor in living expenses with the tuition.
yes- probably at the low end; but I have some other sources of funding that helps offset some of that. you're right though - likely closer to 90
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2015
- Messages
- 2,603
- Reaction score
- 2,803
Isn't Rutgers only half funded?
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2016
- Messages
- 68
- Reaction score
- 31
Hi
Any insight would be helpful on the following schools (especially in comparison to one another):
Loma Linda University
University of La Verne
Wright Institute
Azusa Pacific University
The reason the Wright's match rate was lower in past was that many students were non-traditional, came from MA programs, had families, or married to the area. The school didn't require that folks applied to APA internship sites, so many did APPIC, or even CAPIC. That's been changing over the years and newer cohorts have only been able to apply to APA or APPIC internship sites. The cohorts have also started to be younger and more able to move for internship. Folks who go to the Wright still find that they are competitive for very good sites, lots of folks I know matched at VAs, hospitals, and school sites that are APA accredited. The cohort that came in last year is the first one that will only be allowed to apply to APA sites, so you will be seeing an even bigger uptick in match rates.
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2015
- Messages
- 2,603
- Reaction score
- 2,803
If they are "very competitive," why did only 76% match to an accredited internship last year
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2016
- Messages
- 68
- Reaction score
- 31
As I stated... many folks want to stay in the Bay Area and/or plan on private practice and choose not to apply to APA accredited sites. Or only apply to APA sites because they are told that they have to but have no plans on matching with them. APPIC fits their needs, especially if their goals include continuing in community mental health or private practice. This and next years match rates will reflect the change in the cohorts (next year will be the first year folks will only be applying to APA sites and this year they were "strongly encouraged."
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2015
- Messages
- 2,603
- Reaction score
- 2,803
Do you not see how this emblematic of larger problems with the overall program? Maybe the program should do some quality control in admissions instead of having cohorts that are twice as large as my entire program.
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2016
- Messages
- 68
- Reaction score
- 31
I do agree that there should be smaller cohorts. It is not a research focussed program, which also changes who and how many they can take...though more are taken than probably should be. There are definitely folks who would be better served with a masters program, or folks who already hold master's degrees who don't necessarily need doctorates for their professional development. I don't believe that the match rates are reflective of a problem with quality of the training or the viability of the candidates that the school produces, however. There are some really great clinicians who have trained at the Wright Institute, who are very competitive for accredited internships and postdocs.
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2013
- Messages
- 2,263
- Reaction score
- 2,638
Good programs should be consistent in their quality. That a program is not suggests that the outlier student outcomes (i.e., in a PsyD program that means things like being competitive for APA internship match, having low debt, etc.) are not attributable to the training model since all students receive the same training.
Being competitive for an accredited internship isn't a high bar, thats literally the lowest bar. Everyone should be at that point, bar minimum. If I need to see a doctor, I want my doctor to have a accredited medical degree. That's a bare minimum. Same thing.
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2015
- Messages
- 2,603
- Reaction score
- 2,803
Why not? Why aren't match rates, one of the most important and relatively low bars, indicative of the quality of training offered by a given program?
Furthermore, why should it be acceptable to not have an APA accredited internship? Why should convenience or other considerations take precedence over good training? Why should we tolerate psychologists getting sub-standard training if they are going to provide clinical services to the public? It wouldn't be tolerated for physicians, so why should it be tolerated for psychologists? Why is it that mental health is treated as less important compared to physical health by allowing less qualified individuals to provide services?
Hey Everyone! This is my first time posting so please forgive me if I was supposed to post this on another thread. I applied to exclusively to Clinical PsyD programs this year, got into a couple, and just wanted to get an idea on which schools I should go to and which schools I should avoid. This whole thing is stressing me out as i'm sure you all know. So far its between
Adler University
The Wright Institute
Pacific University
Midwestern University
3 argosy's (chicago, DC, Florida)
Alliant (LA)
Do any of these have particularly bad reputations or does anyone stand out as clearly the best one? Thanks in advance!!
Adler University
The Wright Institute
Pacific University
Midwestern University
3 argosy's (chicago, DC, Florida)
Alliant (LA)
Do any of these have particularly bad reputations or does anyone stand out as clearly the best one? Thanks in advance!!
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2018
- Messages
- 19
- Reaction score
- 15
First off congrats on the acceptances! Second, I would look at the following factors of each program: cost, scholarship availability, internship match rate, and the size of the incoming class =).
You will have to pay a lot more for the professional schools (Argosy, Alliant, Wright). Expect 6 figure costs in total. I would do a serious examination of what you can afford, and avoid as much debt as is possible. It's not impossible to survive on a 6 figure debt figure from graduate school, but it won't be easy.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2010
- Messages
- 9,318
- Reaction score
- 5,582
Mod Note: Moved to the "Help Me Decide" Mega thread
Quick reply: Alliant and Argosy generally have fairly poor reputations; coupled with cost, I personally would recommend avoiding them. Adler is also very expensive. Their APA-accredited match rate looks to have been improving over the past couple years, but they have very large class sizes, are also expensive, and have fairly high attrition rates.
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2013
- Messages
- 2,263
- Reaction score
- 2,638
There are a number of threads here about alliant, argosy, Wright, Adler, etc. Long story short they're bad. Really bad. Bad in a way that will impact your professional career. Ditto on Pacific and Midwestern. And then there is the insane debt.
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2014
- Messages
- 1,064
- Reaction score
- 931
Frankly I would steer clear of all of those. Better to take a year or more off to make yourself competitive for more reputable (and well-funded) programs.
I should note that coupled with the money I have saved up and the funding I got from a private scholarship I will graduate with very little to no debt so that isn't really the issue for me.
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2013
- Messages
- 2,263
- Reaction score
- 2,638
Here are the facts, if you opt to attend any of those programs
- You will attend schools that limit your professional career because of their HORRIBLE reputation (licensure, internship, postdoc, EPPP, etc are all worse in outcome)
- You will spend money that you have saved which could otherwise be building your retirement, buying you a house, etc. and thereby reducing your long-term wealth.
- You will receive worse quality training and are more likely to come out as a weaker provider
To harp on this whole "I don't have debt- I saved the money" argument I hear on here all the time a bit further, any money you spend is money you don't have. If its debt versus if you just spend it now, the same thing applies - that is money you no longer are in possession of. You are poorer because of it. Making the argument you already saved it doesn't change that its a poor economic decision to invest money into these programs. In addition to that, you would be the exception in the range of the .001% (my estimate based on the avg debt load info APPIC puts out) if you graduate from those programs without debt/cost to you (which, btw, you wont do- see the point above about investing savings). You may think that is the case, but consider that low probability. This is not an uncommon thing that we hear on the forum and yet it is an uncommon outcome. Those things don't jive.
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2014
- Messages
- 1,064
- Reaction score
- 931
Still doesn’t make it a smart investment.
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2016
- Messages
- 24
- Reaction score
- 22
Help! I’m deciding between two Ph.D. programs that have extended offers to me. Both are fully-funded clinical science programs, and both POIs are well-respected researchers with a track record of producing successful tenure-track faculty (my end-goal). Admittedly, it’s a good problem to have. Beyond that, though, some pros and cons of each include:
Program A:
- Opportunity to engage in multigenerational, genetically-informed research on my topic of interest.
- Excellent quant training, which is important to me.
- I felt more rapport with the grad students and faculty than at the other program.
- Potential for a predoctoral fellowship offered by the program in years 4-5, and students have a history of getting NSF/NRSA funding.
- Unfortunately, the POI is taking an extended sabbatical beginning in what would be my 3rd year, and essentially it seems like she’s on her way out to retirement. I would have a co-mentor who would take over at this time - our research interests are not as well-aligned, but it seems like I’d be able to continue working with the main POI’s data as much as I’d like.
Program B:
- Opportunity to do research on several unique populations of interest to me.
- Neuroimaging training is available here, but not at the other institution. I think this would be a useful tool to have.
- POI has lots of funding and I wouldn’t need to TA.
- POI has a reputation of being very demanding. Students in her lab don’t seem to have much of a work-life balance and seem a bit unhappy.
- Would require about an hour commute each way to accommodate my partner’s needs (he would be attending law school in a nearby city).
- The city we’d be living with seems much richer with culture, and I think I’d enjoy it more than the alternate school’s location.
If anyone can weigh in, I’d really appreciate your insight!
Program A:
- Opportunity to engage in multigenerational, genetically-informed research on my topic of interest.
- Excellent quant training, which is important to me.
- I felt more rapport with the grad students and faculty than at the other program.
- Potential for a predoctoral fellowship offered by the program in years 4-5, and students have a history of getting NSF/NRSA funding.
- Unfortunately, the POI is taking an extended sabbatical beginning in what would be my 3rd year, and essentially it seems like she’s on her way out to retirement. I would have a co-mentor who would take over at this time - our research interests are not as well-aligned, but it seems like I’d be able to continue working with the main POI’s data as much as I’d like.
Program B:
- Opportunity to do research on several unique populations of interest to me.
- Neuroimaging training is available here, but not at the other institution. I think this would be a useful tool to have.
- POI has lots of funding and I wouldn’t need to TA.
- POI has a reputation of being very demanding. Students in her lab don’t seem to have much of a work-life balance and seem a bit unhappy.
- Would require about an hour commute each way to accommodate my partner’s needs (he would be attending law school in a nearby city).
- The city we’d be living with seems much richer with culture, and I think I’d enjoy it more than the alternate school’s location.
If anyone can weigh in, I’d really appreciate your insight!
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2015
- Messages
- 2,603
- Reaction score
- 2,803
Is Program A in or near the city where your partner is going to law school that you didn't list it as an issue as you did for Program B? Don't underestimate how the commute will affect you. It's one thing to commute to a practicum one or two days a week for a year, but a completely different story if your commute is an hour each way to school. Even if you don't mind the drive, just consider losing two hours each day you have to go to school. You could better use that time more productively.
As far as the "richer with culture" part, you're going to be fairly busy and not making much money in grad school, especially if your partner is also in school, so it won't be as big of a factor as you might think or hope now.
The POI and rapport are going to be the biggest factors. You seem far more apt to go with program A, for both the POI and other grad students, so I would lean towards that, but having your POI retire during your tenure there definitely puts a wrinkle in it. Maybe if you knew for sure you could continue doing the research you want and not much would change it would be ok, but I'm wary of that.
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2016
- Messages
- 24
- Reaction score
- 22
Thanks for your response. Yes, in the case of Program A, my partner would be attending law school at the same university, so that wouldn’t be a concern. I can definitely see the commute at Program B wearing on me, and I could tolerate the location of Program A since I’ll be so busy. Program A really does seem like the better choice, but the potential of my mentor retiring is primarily what gives me pause. I do get the sense that I’d be able to continue doing the research I’m interested in after she leaves, but it’s also possible that I’d have to spend time on research that I care much less about for my secondary mentor. I have a call set up with the secondary mentor this week to clarify what her expectations are, so hopefully that should grant me some clarity.
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2014
- Messages
- 1,064
- Reaction score
- 931
Re: Program B: "Students in her lab don’t seem to have much of a work-life balance and seem a bit unhappy" + "Would require about an hour commute each way to accommodate my partner’s needs" and "The city we’d be living with seems much richer with culture, and I think I’d enjoy it more than the alternate school’s location" seem at odds with one another- if you're too busy/burned out doesn't matter where you live, it will kind of suck. Does that fun city have a super high cost of living to go with it? Take that into consideration.
What is the attrition rate in Program B's lab?
Having graduated just a few years ago and with the stressors of grad school still fresh on my mind, I would be wary of program B because I think work-life balance is hard enough to achieve anyway. My adviser was known as demanding as well, and temperamental, although I managed to always stay on his good side by some stroke of luck (and sleepless nights). But the stress did a number on my relationship with my partner and my physical health. On the plus side, the students kind of bonded over the challenges and our lab was really close, although I found myself trying to play diplomat to make sure work was evenly distributed at times and to prevent problems from getting to the point of our adviser getting involved (ya know, temper and all that). After the stress of grad school I have a whole new perspective on prioritizing work/life, but take my perspective with some grains of salt because I realized during internship-- after hearing the other interns talk about their experiences - that my experience / level of stress was very atypical.
Would your partner be able to pursue their goals in program A? That's important too.
If you keep a strong relationsihp in years 1-2 and get strong momentum going with your research, I think you could come up with a good game plan for year 3.
Another thing to consider is what do you want to do when you finish? Personally, I would go with program A unless my partner had a compelling reason to choose program B (i.e., they really really wanted to go there for law school) which would give me pause.
ETA- just saw above your partner would be attending school either way. Program A all the way over here.
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2013
- Messages
- 2,263
- Reaction score
- 2,638
Your life starts now and doesn't wait. Finding an area that is congruent with your values and free time is important (and despite all the work, grad students do go out and they make that a part of their life). The quality of life is a major deciding issue for me- this is both in terms of area culture but also in terms of things like the commute. Both sound like they will fit what you need professionally so I would make the decision based on your personal values- where do you want to live, what was it like to interact with the professor/grad students in each lab (this is a major win for program A in my book), did the department culture feel better at one, or what type of work/life balance did they have (including commute time- You may also explore living halfway between. 30 minute commutes are FAR easier than an hour).
Look at it like this- you're starting a 5-6 year relationship. Who do you want to spend (and who would you enjoy spending) the next 5 years in a serious, time-consuming relationship with?
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2016
- Messages
- 24
- Reaction score
- 22
Thanks for the input, everyone. It's really helped me to better envision what each scenario would entail. I've been moving closer and closer to choosing option A but plan to talk over the options with my current advisor before making the jump.
Much appreciated!
Much appreciated!
D
deleted343839
You've received some good advice. I would also be wary of Option B.
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2017
- Messages
- 65
- Reaction score
- 64
Hey guys, I need some help!
(My top choice is a PhD, but I'm on the waitlist, so if that doesn't pan out, here are my options)
School A (PsyD): Internship 100% Licensure > 95%
- Very well funded, esp for a PsyD. Tuition is <5k a year, plus you get a stipend, provided you teach (I have a college fund specifically for tuition which would cover the entirety of tutition/fees). And yes everyone receives the same funding.
- I *think* it has a very nice name attached (it's not Baylor/Rutgers but I'd consider it top 5 in the country)
- Very small cohorts, no more than 10
- The PI and I got along very well, definitely seems like someone I could work with
- Students (especially in my interest of forensic place very well)
However...
- I really did not like the other faculty members that much.. One even said something slightly racist during a group interview and in general the faculty is overwhelmingly white and male.
-I didn't like the current students that much (idk how much that should influence my decision, but I didn't get great vibes from some of them)
-Overall, I didn't LOVE the program. I'm sure I wouldn't be miserable, but I don't know if I'd be thrilled either
School B (PsyD): Internship 100% Licensure >97%
-Okay funded. Some tuition remission, small stipend. There are opportunities for full tuition waivers, but you have to seek them out. Overall I'm looking at 50-60k max in loans to cover everything
-Also I *think* it has an okay name attached to it. There students have placed very very well out of the program
-Small cohorts, no more than 15
-I liked my PI there and there is an additional faculty who also studies my area of interest. Also the PI & additional faculty are very good friends with my undergraduate professor who I am currently doing research with
-Faculty and current students were much more diverse
-I would say it's the stronger program in terms of forensic work
- In general, I thought it was the best fit out of all my programs (even the PhD)
....The ONLY Cons is
- long commute for Prac 3rd and 4th year
So my question is... Am I crazy to choose School B?
My partner has a great job, where he can work anywhere in the country with a salary in the low 6 figures. I figure once I'm done with grad school, our dual income will be relatively nice, and I can pay back loans from School B somewhat quickly.
Is that naive to think?
Or should I go with School A even though I didn't love it just for the money?
(My top choice is a PhD, but I'm on the waitlist, so if that doesn't pan out, here are my options)
School A (PsyD): Internship 100% Licensure > 95%
- Very well funded, esp for a PsyD. Tuition is <5k a year, plus you get a stipend, provided you teach (I have a college fund specifically for tuition which would cover the entirety of tutition/fees). And yes everyone receives the same funding.
- I *think* it has a very nice name attached (it's not Baylor/Rutgers but I'd consider it top 5 in the country)
- Very small cohorts, no more than 10
- The PI and I got along very well, definitely seems like someone I could work with
- Students (especially in my interest of forensic place very well)
However...
- I really did not like the other faculty members that much.. One even said something slightly racist during a group interview and in general the faculty is overwhelmingly white and male.
-I didn't like the current students that much (idk how much that should influence my decision, but I didn't get great vibes from some of them)
-Overall, I didn't LOVE the program. I'm sure I wouldn't be miserable, but I don't know if I'd be thrilled either
School B (PsyD): Internship 100% Licensure >97%
-Okay funded. Some tuition remission, small stipend. There are opportunities for full tuition waivers, but you have to seek them out. Overall I'm looking at 50-60k max in loans to cover everything
-Also I *think* it has an okay name attached to it. There students have placed very very well out of the program
-Small cohorts, no more than 15
-I liked my PI there and there is an additional faculty who also studies my area of interest. Also the PI & additional faculty are very good friends with my undergraduate professor who I am currently doing research with
-Faculty and current students were much more diverse
-I would say it's the stronger program in terms of forensic work
- In general, I thought it was the best fit out of all my programs (even the PhD)
....The ONLY Cons is
- long commute for Prac 3rd and 4th year
So my question is... Am I crazy to choose School B?
My partner has a great job, where he can work anywhere in the country with a salary in the low 6 figures. I figure once I'm done with grad school, our dual income will be relatively nice, and I can pay back loans from School B somewhat quickly.
Is that naive to think?
Or should I go with School A even though I didn't love it just for the money?
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2015
- Messages
- 2,603
- Reaction score
- 2,803
Isn't this "slightly racist" as well?
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2017
- Messages
- 65
- Reaction score
- 64
No, the faculty being 99% men and 99% white is an observation.
A school can't preach diversity and inclusion and yet fail to hire diverse staff and have cohorts that are all white.
As a minority student, a diverse atmosphere is a plus.
I would agree with @logicpsych2012 noticing demographics is not racist and noticing a lack of diversity is also not racist, especially since faculty in clinical programs tend to be overwhelmingly white and male. Also, racism is commonly defined as an institutional discrimination against historically oppressed groups. So biased or discriminatory perhaps but operationally not racist by definition of the word since in this country racism doesn't include white men.
