Mar 18, 2018
3
0
Status
Psychology Student
I’m not a current or former student of either program, but a former student of Wright State did tell me that she didn’t think their training in assessment was that great, which might be concerning for someone interested in forensics.
That is good information to know. Thanks for the reply!
 
Mar 10, 2018
37
4
Status
Psychology Student
Ok, but how much is that 2/3 they aren't funding? How much is that added up across four or five years of grad school? How much is four or five years of worth of living expenses on top of that?

Without even seeing any numbers, I'm guessing that it's easily going to be more than $100,000. This is just untenable based on the salary data for practicing psychologists.
The tuition is around 45,000, with around 15,000 funded if you spend extra hours doing research for a lab. Plus the cost of insurance, living expenses, etc etc. I also think it's absolutely astonishing.
 

WisNeuro

Board Certified Neuropsychologist
10+ Year Member
Feb 15, 2009
12,118
12,225
Somewhere
Status
Psychologist
The tuition is around 45,000, with around 15,000 funded if you spend extra hours doing research for a lab. Plus the cost of insurance, living expenses, etc etc. I also think it's absolutely astonishing.
45k a year, or total? If it's total, maybe. If it's per year, there is absolutely no way I would ever consider it. Under any circumstance. Unless they could guarantee that I would somehow make 250k/year in my job.
 
About the Ads

Therapist4Chnge

Neuropsych Ninja Faculty
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Oct 7, 2006
21,806
2,998
The Beach
Status
Psychologist
Just to clarify....”paid internships” shouldn’t matter. APA-acred internships are required to pay their interns and students should only apply for APA-acred internships. The vast vast majority of programs don’t even allow students to apply to internships that aren’t APA-acred.

Graduating w/o an APA-acres internship can and does significantly limit the clinician for future jobs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psych.meout

AcronymAllergy

Neuropsychologist
Moderator
Gold Donor
10+ Year Member
Jan 7, 2010
7,812
2,387
Status
Psychologist
I have been accepted to both programs as well as the forensic tracks in both and I am currently incredibly torn between the two programs.

My background: I am graduating this May with a MA in Forensic Mental Health Counseling and am seeking a PsyD with an emphasis in Forensic Psychology. Also, I am going to one school or the other and am not looking for "you should wait a year and apply to PhD programs" or "neither school is good, don't bother."

Both are APA accredited, have similar EPPP pass rates (87% and 89% respectively), and have forensic concentrations.

My problem is that while WSU seems to have the more established well-known program, I can't see myself enjoying living in Dayton for the next 4-5 years. Their facilities are older as well, which is kind of a downer. However, their APA internship match rate is higher (but inflated due to internal matching) and for the past three years every student has gotten a paid internship. Also, the cohort size is around 25-30 students.

With Pacific, I really liked how the program is set up and the amount of help I would get with my dissertation (not a fan of research). Their APA internship and paid internship rate is lower than WSU, but not enough to instantly turn me off as I have heard that most students who don't get matched refuse to leave OR or WA, which I have no problem doing. Their building is basically brand new and they are constantly trying new things to make the program better (so I'm told). Not to mention the area, Portland specifically, are incredibly tantalizing to me and theres many more opportunities for self-care.

However, the program would cost me about $30,000 more to complete than WSU, and the cohort size is around 50. Obviously, a cohort size that large is concerning, but only around 8 students are accepted into the forensic track and I have no reason to believe I wouldn't get the opportunity to build significant relationships with forensic professors.


Obviously advice from anyone who knows anything about either program would be great, but I am hoping to find someone who is currently attending or has graduated from either program to provide some insight.

Thanks!
Mod Note: Merged into the "help me decide" mega-thread
 
Mar 10, 2018
37
4
Status
Psychology Student
45k a year, or total? If it's total, maybe. If it's per year, there is absolutely no way I would ever consider it. Under any circumstance. Unless they could guarantee that I would somehow make 250k/year in my job.
Per year! And not including living expenses such as rent, insurance, books, etc.
 

psych.meout

5+ Year Member
Oct 5, 2015
2,001
1,560
Status
DO/PhD Student
Per year! And not including living expenses such as rent, insurance, books, etc.
If you have to do extra work to knock down just your tuition costs to $30,000/year, it's definitely a bad idea. You're looking at >$100,000 debt from just the tuition and then significantly moore from living expenses, fees, insurance, conference travel, internship apps and interviews, etc.

You should definitely decline the offer and reapply in a year or two. I know that it sucks to have to defer gratification for so long, but, trust me, it will be worth it. You'll be saving literally hundreds of thousands of dollars and likely get better training and career opportunities from it.
 

WisNeuro

Board Certified Neuropsychologist
10+ Year Member
Feb 15, 2009
12,118
12,225
Somewhere
Status
Psychologist
Thank you ever so much for your time! Is there anything you think is imperative to ask students or professors? I have enquired about the sites students typically get placed at and it seems to be a good match for my interests. I am just trying to gauge what will set me up well post-graduation.
I'd want to know about practicum placement prior to internships, what's available, how well do students do matching to those? How good is the research match with your POI? Those kinds of things.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Therapist4Chnge
Mar 10, 2018
37
4
Status
Psychology Student
Hi everyone!
Re-posting since I didn't get any responses first time around.

I am lucky enough to have two offers - from both Adelphi and LIU Brooklyn - and I am trying to assess how to make this decision.

Both programs are very comparable in price, so my decision will be based on other factors such as the quality of supervision and training, as well as the opportunities 'afforded' by going to that school- particularly in terms of placements and future career paths.

I would like specific information about the programs if anyone has some, but also, things I should ask or pay attention to before making my decision. I am an international student, so I cannot really go attend a class or meet students - financially that trip would not make sense, and I am finding it hard to make such an important decision based on "paper".

Adelphi requires students to take more courses than those outlined by the APA, and has a curriculum of 130 credits, whereas LIU is a standard 90. But I am aware more does not necessarily mean better.

Any advice on how to assess the strengths of each program and things I should take into consideration would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
LIU was a much better research fit for me, Brooklyn is much nicer than Long Island, I heard Adelphi students complain about the heavy curriculum. I would also consider your faculty members of choice and their areas of interest. You'll be spending a lot of time with them, so it's important that their interests align with yours and will align with yours for a while. Give them a call or shoot them an email, discuss their future directions more.
 

Bryan91

PsyD Candidate
5+ Year Member
Mar 3, 2014
55
76
Status
Psychology Student
I have been accepted to both programs as well as the forensic tracks in both and I am currently incredibly torn between the two programs.

My background: I am graduating this May with a MA in Forensic Mental Health Counseling and am seeking a PsyD with an emphasis in Forensic Psychology. Also, I am going to one school or the other and am not looking for "you should wait a year and apply to PhD programs" or "neither school is good, don't bother."

Both are APA accredited, have similar EPPP pass rates (87% and 89% respectively), and have forensic concentrations.

My problem is that while WSU seems to have the more established well-known program, I can't see myself enjoying living in Dayton for the next 4-5 years. Their facilities are older as well, which is kind of a downer. However, their APA internship match rate is higher (but inflated due to internal matching) and for the past three years every student has gotten a paid internship. Also, the cohort size is around 25-30 students.

With Pacific, I really liked how the program is set up and the amount of help I would get with my dissertation (not a fan of research). Their APA internship and paid internship rate is lower than WSU, but not enough to instantly turn me off as I have heard that most students who don't get matched refuse to leave OR or WA, which I have no problem doing. Their building is basically brand new and they are constantly trying new things to make the program better (so I'm told). Not to mention the area, Portland specifically, are incredibly tantalizing to me and theres many more opportunities for self-care.

However, the program would cost me about $30,000 more to complete than WSU, and the cohort size is around 50. Obviously, a cohort size that large is concerning, but only around 8 students are accepted into the forensic track and I have no reason to believe I wouldn't get the opportunity to build significant relationships with forensic professors.


Obviously advice from anyone who knows anything about either program would be great, but I am hoping to find someone who is currently attending or has graduated from either program to provide some insight.

Thanks!
I am a current PsyD candidate at Pacific University. The cohort sizes are amazingly large. However, it is broken down into separate track emphasis areas, where you will get the majority of your training and interactions with faculty. From my perspective, the faculty are very supportive, but only if you reach out to them. You'll receive amazing training at forensic practicums. The debt is ridiculously huge and probably almost impossible to pay off, unless you come from a rich background. Living in the Portland area is amazing and you'll always have something to do, whether it will be going to the beach, mountains, hiking, city life, etc...
 

WisNeuro

Board Certified Neuropsychologist
10+ Year Member
Feb 15, 2009
12,118
12,225
Somewhere
Status
Psychologist
I am a current PsyD candidate at Pacific University. The cohort sizes are amazingly large. However, it is broken down into separate track emphasis areas, where you will get the majority of your training and interactions with faculty. From my perspective, the faculty are very supportive, but only if you reach out to them. You'll receive amazing training at forensic practicums. The debt is ridiculously huge and probably almost impossible to pay off, unless you come from a rich background. Living in the Portland area is amazing and you'll always have something to do, whether it will be going to the beach, mountains, hiking, city life, etc...
That sounds like a ringing endorsement...
 
  • Like
Reactions: psych.meout

Bryan91

PsyD Candidate
5+ Year Member
Mar 3, 2014
55
76
Status
Psychology Student
That sounds like a ringing endorsement...
Yup, its like the comment above stated. If you are okay with taking out loans for the program, the site seems like its more favorable for the potential candidate. For me, I had no idea what it meant to take out a large amount of loans and I will probably have to deal with the repercussions for the remainder of my career, unless I win the lottery.
 
About the Ads

wtfook

2+ Year Member
Dec 29, 2015
184
109
Status
Psychology Student
Yup, its like the comment above stated. If you are okay with taking out loans for the program, the site seems like its more favorable for the potential candidate. For me, I had no idea what it meant to take out a large amount of loans and I will probably have to deal with the repercussions for the remainder of my career, unless I win the lottery.
It seems like this is a running trend I see a lot when on this forum. Not people in your position realizing the debt was a lot to take on but people a step before you who are considering programs. Many think that it'll be fine and only want to know about the training merits of the program while current practicing professionals try their best to warn them that it's a lot more debt than they realize. I'm very curious, given that you're in a program now: would you still have made the decision you made? What would you say to your younger self before choosing the program you did? What advice do you have for people considering these programs currently who feel the level of debt is manageable?

Like you said, there are people who are independently wealthy who can genuinely handle the debt. In which case, pick the program with the best training. However, most people are not in that group generally speaking.
 

WorkLifeBalance

2+ Year Member
Mar 2, 2018
32
25
Status
Psychologist
It seems like this is a running trend I see a lot when on this forum. Not people in your position realizing the debt was a lot to take on but people a step before you who are considering programs. Many think that it'll be fine and only want to know about the training merits of the program while current practicing professionals try their best to warn them that it's a lot more debt than they realize. I'm very curious, given that you're in a program now: would you still have made the decision you made? What would you say to your younger self before choosing the program you did? What advice do you have for people considering these programs currently who feel the level of debt is manageable?

Like you said, there are people who are independently wealthy who can genuinely handle the debt. In which case, pick the program with the best training. However, most people are not in that group generally speaking.
Even if someone can handle the debt, aren't there better things to put it toward? And doesn't it continue to reinforce these programs?
 

Bryan91

PsyD Candidate
5+ Year Member
Mar 3, 2014
55
76
Status
Psychology Student
It seems like this is a running trend I see a lot when on this forum. Not people in your position realizing the debt was a lot to take on but people a step before you who are considering programs. Many think that it'll be fine and only want to know about the training merits of the program while current practicing professionals try their best to warn them that it's a lot more debt than they realize. I'm very curious, given that you're in a program now: would you still have made the decision you made? What would you say to your younger self before choosing the program you did? What advice do you have for people considering these programs currently who feel the level of debt is manageable?

Like you said, there are people who are independently wealthy who can genuinely handle the debt. In which case, pick the program with the best training. However, most people are not in that group generally speaking.
TBH, the training program is amazing and I have very little to complain about from that perspective. My advice is to apply to sites with better funding options and to not solely base it off of the training merits of the program. If you are a first generation college student with no financial safety net (like myself), definitely reach out to faculty in your undergraduate program to discuss the pros and cons about taking on a large amount of debt and weighing it against the training merits. It is something I wish I had done.
 

wtfook

2+ Year Member
Dec 29, 2015
184
109
Status
Psychology Student
TBH, the training program is amazing and I have very little to complain about from that perspective. My advice is to apply to sites with better funding options and to not solely base it off of the training merits of the program. If you are a first generation college student with no financial safety net (like myself), definitely reach out to faculty in your undergraduate program to discuss the pros and cons about taking on a large amount of debt and weighing it against the training merits. It is something I wish I had done.
Yeah I think that's all great insight. Thanks for the response!
 

StellaB

7+ Year Member
Jun 3, 2011
333
577
Status
Psychologist
TBH, the training program is amazing and I have very little to complain about from that perspective. My advice is to apply to sites with better funding options and to not solely base it off of the training merits of the program. If you are a first generation college student with no financial safety net (like myself), definitely reach out to faculty in your undergraduate program to discuss the pros and cons about taking on a large amount of debt and weighing it against the training merits. It is something I wish I had done.
Also keep in mind that current levels of student debt are a fairly new phenomenon due to changes in the law that incentivized extremely expensive programs and allowed interest to accrue while you are still in school. Professors might not really know what the current issues are unless they went to grad school pretty recently. If you can find someone who recently graduated, that might be the best source of advice. And I think a lot of the people on this forum are giving excellent advice, trying to warn people as much as possible. It’s too bad that so many people take that advice as dream-crushing, but that’s the reality of the situation.
 
Mar 1, 2018
16
10
Status
Psychology Student
Hello everyone, I didn't want to start a new thread since essentially my question will be the same as the original post "help me decide which school to attend" so here are the schools I've been accepted to. Any advice from current students of these institutions would be TREMENDOUSLY appreciated. Thanks!

1. Immaculata University (PA)
2. Midwestern University (AZ)
3. Florida Institute of Technology (FL)
4. Nova Southeastern University (FL)
 

WisNeuro

Board Certified Neuropsychologist
10+ Year Member
Feb 15, 2009
12,118
12,225
Somewhere
Status
Psychologist
Hello everyone, I didn't want to start a new thread since essentially my question will be the same as the original post "help me decide which school to attend" so here are the schools I've been accepted to. Any advice from current students of these institutions would be TREMENDOUSLY appreciated. Thanks!

1. Immaculata University (PA)
2. Midwestern University (AZ)
3. Florida Institute of Technology (FL)
4. Nova Southeastern University (FL)
FIT. And just never speak of Midwestern again.

Edit. Just looked up Immaculata's match stats, yeesh, chuck them off the list as well.

At this time, FIT is the only program I would actually consider taking a student from in internship applications. Nova used to be there, but their quality seems to have fallen off a cliff in recent years, especially on the neuro side of things.
 
Last edited:

psych.meout

5+ Year Member
Oct 5, 2015
2,001
1,560
Status
DO/PhD Student
FIT. And just never speak of Midwestern again.

Edit. Just looked up Immaculata's match stats, yeesh, chuck them off the list as well.

At this time, FIT is the only program I would actually consider taking a student from in internship applications. Nova used to be there, but their quality seems to have fallen off a cliff in recent years, especially on the neuro side of things.
I know a FIT grad and they are certainly a great psychologist, but even they admit that, in retrospect, they would have chosen a different program if they could do it all over again.
 

WisNeuro

Board Certified Neuropsychologist
10+ Year Member
Feb 15, 2009
12,118
12,225
Somewhere
Status
Psychologist
I know a FIT grad and they are certainly a great psychologist, but even they admit that, in retrospect, they would have chosen a different program if they could do it all over again.
Yeah, it's certainly not in my top few tiers, but out of those choices, it's the clear front-runner.
 
Mar 26, 2018
2
0
Status
Psychology Student
I am so torn I have been 50/50 for the past week and time is running out. Below is an overview of my predicament: I have been accepted to two APA accredited programs.

University 1: Ph.D in Clinical Psych
Pro: Perfect research match, I love the work that I would be able to do (placement sites in the prison, working with native Americans, researching aggression, FMRI and EEG research.) I feel like I can also be challenged here and I would have a degree I would be proud of.

Con: They offer a small stipend (about 7,500 a year) for first year students, (Granted the Cost of living is low); it is a small rural area (I am have lived in the city for a long time), and the weather.

University 2: Ph.D in Counseling Psych
Pros: The students there were so nice and I got along with them great. The city is closer to home (my grandma is getting older), the weather is nice, and there is lots to do! I loved the school and the atmosphere when I went. Plus they are offering lots more money (11,000 for the first year)

Con: The program is okay, there is no prison access, no EEG, and I would be primary researching adolescence rather than adults (which is OK, but not what I want.) It is a new program, only been up and running for 5 years (yes it is APA accredited), and I am placed with brand new faculty.

Which do I go to?
 
About the Ads
Mar 26, 2018
2
0
Status
Psychology Student
I am so torn I have been 50/50 for the past week and time is running out. Below is an overview of my predicament: I have been accepted to two APA accredited programs.

University 1: Ph.D in Clinical Psych
Pro: Perfect research match, I love the work that I would be able to do (placement sites in the prison, working with native Americans, researching aggression, FMRI and EEG research.) I feel like I can also be challenged here and I would have a degree I would be proud of.

Con: They offer a small stipend (about 7,500 a year) for first year students, (Granted the Cost of living is low); it is a small rural area (I am have lived in the city for a long time), and the weather.

University 2: Ph.D in Counseling Psych
Pros: The students there were so nice and I got along with them great. The city is closer to home (my grandma is getting older), the weather is nice, and there is lots to do! I loved the school and the atmosphere when I went. Plus they are offering lots more money (11,000 for the first year)

Con: The program is okay, there is no prison access, no EEG, and I would be primary researching adolescence rather than adults (which is OK, but not what I want.) It is a new program, only been up and running for 5 years (yes it is APA accredited), and I am placed with brand new faculty.

Which do I go to?
 
Mar 1, 2018
16
10
Status
Psychology Student
I know a FIT grad and they are certainly a great psychologist, but even they admit that, in retrospect, they would have chosen a different program if they could do it all over again.
Is there a specific reason why they would not attend FIT all over again? did the courses change throughout the years, the prof/program got worse or just a personal preference? Tbh FIT would be my top choice, bc of the small class sizes, integrated health concentration, and I got a scholarship offer.
Thank you guys for your input, I know my list was limited but I did try to focus on either nearby location/ warm places. I guess I'm not in the top tier of students if the only schools that accepted me are not top-tier universities.
Also, I got wait-listed at Widener, Rutgers, and Univ of Hartford but I was told not to count on wait-list schools since unless your number 1 on the list, you don't usually get the acceptance.

Any other input?
 

Bryan91

PsyD Candidate
5+ Year Member
Mar 3, 2014
55
76
Status
Psychology Student
I am so torn I have been 50/50 for the past week and time is running out. Below is an overview of my predicament: I have been accepted to two APA accredited programs.

University 1: Ph.D in Clinical Psych
Pro: Perfect research match, I love the work that I would be able to do (placement sites in the prison, working with native Americans, researching aggression, FMRI and EEG research.) I feel like I can also be challenged here and I would have a degree I would be proud of.

Con: They offer a small stipend (about 7,500 a year) for first year students, (Granted the Cost of living is low); it is a small rural area (I am have lived in the city for a long time), and the weather.

University 2: Ph.D in Counseling Psych
Pros: The students there were so nice and I got along with them great. The city is closer to home (my grandma is getting older), the weather is nice, and there is lots to do! I loved the school and the atmosphere when I went. Plus they are offering lots more money (11,000 for the first year)

Con: The program is okay, there is no prison access, no EEG, and I would be primary researching adolescence rather than adults (which is OK, but not what I want.) It is a new program, only been up and running for 5 years (yes it is APA accredited), and I am placed with brand new faculty.

Which do I go to?
TBH, it really sounds like you are choosing between living style / happiness and the perfect training program. I'd lean towards University 1, IF you are okay with living in a rural city. Otherwise, choose University 2.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Therapist4Chnge

wtfook

2+ Year Member
Dec 29, 2015
184
109
Status
Psychology Student
I am so torn I have been 50/50 for the past week and time is running out. Below is an overview of my predicament: I have been accepted to two APA accredited programs.

University 1: Ph.D in Clinical Psych
Pro: Perfect research match, I love the work that I would be able to do (placement sites in the prison, working with native Americans, researching aggression, FMRI and EEG research.) I feel like I can also be challenged here and I would have a degree I would be proud of.

Con: They offer a small stipend (about 7,500 a year) for first year students, (Granted the Cost of living is low); it is a small rural area (I am have lived in the city for a long time), and the weather.

University 2: Ph.D in Counseling Psych
Pros: The students there were so nice and I got along with them great. The city is closer to home (my grandma is getting older), the weather is nice, and there is lots to do! I loved the school and the atmosphere when I went. Plus they are offering lots more money (11,000 for the first year)

Con: The program is okay, there is no prison access, no EEG, and I would be primary researching adolescence rather than adults (which is OK, but not what I want.) It is a new program, only been up and running for 5 years (yes it is APA accredited), and I am placed with brand new faculty.

Which do I go to?
I feel like since you are accepted into these programs now, it is absolutely appropriate to be candid about these things you're unsure about. Talk to the advisor in University 2 about your focus on adults and if there are opportunities to do adult work while working with her. Talk to the training director at University 2 about the opportunities for work in a prison in your practicum years. Did they tell you point blank that you wont be able to work in a prison when you interviewed there? How did you gain the information that prisons are not an option? For University 1, you could always ask what external or additional funding there are if you were interested in applying for them.

I'd also consider what you need in order to be happy. You'd need to be on that campus at least 3 years with perhaps some flexibility in 4th year depending on whether you're coming in with a master's. Are you the kind of person who needs to be in a city with lots to do or are you someone who is OK with rural and location if the research and training options are ideal. I think either is totally valid. You'd just need to figure out which type of person you are.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bryan91

CatsFan

7+ Year Member
Feb 15, 2012
141
180
Status
Fellow [Any Field]
I am so torn I have been 50/50 for the past week and time is running out. Below is an overview of my predicament: I have been accepted to two APA accredited programs.

University 1: Ph.D in Clinical Psych
Pro: Perfect research match, I love the work that I would be able to do (placement sites in the prison, working with native Americans, researching aggression, FMRI and EEG research.) I feel like I can also be challenged here and I would have a degree I would be proud of.

Con: They offer a small stipend (about 7,500 a year) for first year students, (Granted the Cost of living is low); it is a small rural area (I am have lived in the city for a long time), and the weather.

University 2: Ph.D in Counseling Psych
Pros: The students there were so nice and I got along with them great. The city is closer to home (my grandma is getting older), the weather is nice, and there is lots to do! I loved the school and the atmosphere when I went. Plus they are offering lots more money (11,000 for the first year)

Con: The program is okay, there is no prison access, no EEG, and I would be primary researching adolescence rather than adults (which is OK, but not what I want.) It is a new program, only been up and running for 5 years (yes it is APA accredited), and I am placed with brand new faculty.

Which do I go to?
At University 2, are there any other faculty you would be interested in working with? With brand new faculty, there is always the risk that they will leave/not get tenure. That's another factor to consider.
 

Therapist4Chnge

Neuropsych Ninja Faculty
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Oct 7, 2006
21,806
2,998
The Beach
Status
Psychologist
Look at the total cost of the programs, if it is substantial, that should’ve a factor. Program 1 sounds like the better choice....as long as it doesn't put you in significant debt.
 

AcronymAllergy

Neuropsychologist
Moderator
Gold Donor
10+ Year Member
Jan 7, 2010
7,812
2,387
Status
Psychologist
I am so torn I have been 50/50 for the past week and time is running out. Below is an overview of my predicament: I have been accepted to two APA accredited programs.

University 1: Ph.D in Clinical Psych
Pro: Perfect research match, I love the work that I would be able to do (placement sites in the prison, working with native Americans, researching aggression, FMRI and EEG research.) I feel like I can also be challenged here and I would have a degree I would be proud of.

Con: They offer a small stipend (about 7,500 a year) for first year students, (Granted the Cost of living is low); it is a small rural area (I am have lived in the city for a long time), and the weather.

University 2: Ph.D in Counseling Psych
Pros: The students there were so nice and I got along with them great. The city is closer to home (my grandma is getting older), the weather is nice, and there is lots to do! I loved the school and the atmosphere when I went. Plus they are offering lots more money (11,000 for the first year)

Con: The program is okay, there is no prison access, no EEG, and I would be primary researching adolescence rather than adults (which is OK, but not what I want.) It is a new program, only been up and running for 5 years (yes it is APA accredited), and I am placed with brand new faculty.

Which do I go to?
Mod Note: Merged into the Help Me Decide mega-thread, although I see a version of it is already here.
 
Mar 26, 2018
4
5
Is there a specific reason why they would not attend FIT all over again? did the courses change throughout the years, the prof/program got worse or just a personal preference? Tbh FIT would be my top choice, bc of the small class sizes, integrated health concentration, and I got a scholarship offer.
Thank you guys for your input, I know my list was limited but I did try to focus on either nearby location/ warm places. I guess I'm not in the top tier of students if the only schools that accepted me are not top-tier universities.
Also, I got wait-listed at Widener, Rutgers, and Univ of Hartford but I was told not to count on wait-list schools since unless your number 1 on the list, you don't usually get the acceptance.

Any other input?
I'm an FIT student and I'm happy with my choice of program. The professors are great and I'm definitely getting great training here. The workload can get stressful sometimes, but that's grad school. I think for a PsyD program we do a good job providing research opportunities. I know plenty of neuro students who have had posters accepted at conferences and published too. I believe a couple IBH people recently presented at a national IBH conference. There are definitely opportunities to get involved in IBH research, and a decent amount of IBH practicum sites as well. Most students here get some sort of funding, and some of the IBH practicum sites are grant funded, so those pay really nicely (I believe enough to cover tuition those semesters, but I'm not completely sure).

I'd say a downside of the program is a lot of the better practicum sites (VA and Hospitals) are in Orlando, which is a commute of at least an hour each way. Not having an academic medical center affiliated with the school is unfortunate as well. There are also some annoying random small changes, such as certain elective classes being changed to different semesters, or comprehensive exam format changes. Nothing back breaking, but it is at times inconvenient.

Of all the programs you listed, the only one I'd personally choose over FIT is Rutgers. If IBH is what you're passionate about I think FIT can be a good choice. Feel free to shoot me a PM if you have questions about the program.
 
  • Like
Reactions: qwerty729
Mar 15, 2018
14
5
USA
In the end, all it matters is the amount of work you put once you have graduated. Keep in mind that you have to work hard not only during your academic years but after that to become successful. You get the first or even the second job due to your education. After that, you need to make a place for yourself in the corporate world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kim26
About the Ads

futureapppsy2

Assistant professor
Moderator
10+ Year Member
Dec 25, 2008
5,965
2,339
FIT. And just never speak of Midwestern again.

Edit. Just looked up Immaculata's match stats, yeesh, chuck them off the list as well.

At this time, FIT is the only program I would actually consider taking a student from in internship applications. Nova used to be there, but their quality seems to have fallen off a cliff in recent years, especially on the neuro side of things.
My concern with FIT would be the cost/debt level is still waaay too high, IMO. Nova seems to have shot themselves in the foot by enlarging their class sizes to untenable levels in the mid- to late-2000's.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: qwerty729
Mar 4, 2018
18
9
Status
Psychology Student
My concern with FIT would be the cost/debt level is still waay too high, IMO.
Yes, the debt is high but fortunately because they have a small class size, they have a lot of scholarships to offer. I'm attending there this fall and I received a 10k scholarship. This shaves off 1/3 of my tuition making it doable for me. Also, almost all of the practicum sites are paid which helps!
 
  • Like
Reactions: qwerty729

psych.meout

5+ Year Member
Oct 5, 2015
2,001
1,560
Status
DO/PhD Student
Yes, the debt is high but fortunately because they have a small class size, they have a lot of scholarships to offer. I'm attending there this fall and I received a 10k scholarship. This shaves off 1/3 of my tuition making it doable for me. Also, almost all of the practicum sites are paid which helps!
Ok, but that's just considering tuition. You also have to factor in fees, books, conference travel, internship apps and interviews, and living expenses. Thus, it still sounds like you're talking about significantly more than $100,000 in debt.
 
Mar 26, 2018
4
5
Ok, but that's just considering tuition. You also have to factor in fees, books, conference travel, internship apps and interviews, and living expenses. Thus, it still sounds like you're talking about significantly more than $100,000 in debt.
We have some funds to subsidize conference travel, and Melbourne is a pretty low cost of living area (you can find a 1BR apartment for $700-$900/month). I know a couple people who are splitting the rent on a house and are paying ~$450/month. The IBH grant pays a stipend of 25k over two semesters for that practicum site. Like OP said, there are plenty of other paid practicum sites, but they pay more in the $12-$16/hr range. It's not difficult to get an RA or TA assistantship to cover a small portion of tuition every year as well. I think FIT does a better job than a lot of PsyD programs at providing funding opportunities.

All that being said, OP if you do plan of paying for your education entirely through loans you need to educate yourself on how long it will take you to pay them back. Student loans have compounding interest, so it will be more expensive than you think. I would not plan on counting on Public Service Loan Forgiveness, as there is a good chance it will not exist by the time you're done with grad school. I've noticed some of my peers in early years were not realistically educated on psychologist salaries. Google "APA salary data" if you have not seen it already. Personally, if my only option to pay for school was all through loans, I would put off my graduate training for two more years to work towards a fully funded program.
 
  • Like
Reactions: qwerty729

psych.meout

5+ Year Member
Oct 5, 2015
2,001
1,560
Status
DO/PhD Student
Look, I understand that you've made a decision and are excited about the opportunity. My point is not to make you change your mind or reverse your decision, but rather to point out the financial reality of the situation for you and any prospective FIT students.

We have some funds to subsidize conference travel
It's good to hope for the best, but you need to plan for the worst, not the best. Dipping into your savings for a known cost (e.g., conference travel) isn't really a great idea, especially with such a limited budget. It puts extra constraints on the rest of your finances, especially if you have any of the other unexpected expenses, e.g., car repairs, medical problems, etc.

The IBH grant pays a stipend of 25k over two semesters for that practicum site. Like OP said, there are plenty of other paid practicum sites, but they pay more in the $12-$16/hr range. It's not difficult to get an RA or TA assistantship to cover a small portion of tuition every year as well. I think FIT does a better job than a lot of PsyD programs at providing funding opportunities.
The problem here is that everyone in your entire program (not even just your cohort) is going to be in the same boat, financially, and want those same practica that are highly compensated. Furthermore, if your finances are so limited, it may mean you have to choose your practica based on your contemporaneous financial situation, not where your interests lie or what would be best for your future.

Furthermore, $12-16/hr really isn't that great, particularly when you are taking on debt and won't (or at least shouldn't) be working full time. The more you work at your practica to try to make ends meet, the less time you have for other career-enhancing opportunities, e.g., research productivity. Hell, you end up spending more time in the program and accruing more debt if your practica get paid detract from you making progress on your thesis, prelims/comps, and dissertation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: qwerty729
Mar 1, 2018
16
10
Status
Psychology Student
The reality of it is less than 10% of PSY.D. programs are fully funded or even partially funded ("Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology"). Beyond deciding to do a Ph.D. instead, theres a very low chance of getting into a funded PsyD program. I'm not really sure why ppl are posting that as a probable solution to financial issues when all the stats prove this feat to be highly improbable.
 
Mar 26, 2018
4
5
The reality of it is less than 10% of PSY.D. programs are fully funded or even partially funded ("Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology"). Beyond deciding to do a Ph.D. instead, theres a very low chance of getting into a funded PsyD program. I'm not really sure why ppl are posting that as a probable solution to financial issues when all the stats prove this feat to be highly improbable.
Personally, I think if you're considering clinical psychology at the doctoral level you should not limit yourself to just Psy.D programs. A proper Psy.D program should emphasize a balance between clinical and research training, just as a Ph.D does. What a lot of the more senior members on this board are trying to get at is the return on investment of a degree. With what psychology salaries look like, it's not ideal to go to extreme debt like people do in MD programs. You're right though in that fully-funded programs are extremely competitive. However, from what I've been told, it's generally feasible to get there if you take an extra 2-years to work full-time in a lab and showcase some research productivity. A two year time investment to avoid decades worth of debt repayment is not a bad trade-off. FIT can provide you with the opportunities to be a strong psychologist, and we do have above-average funding opportunities for a PsyD program. Psych.meout and myself are both just trying to make sure you understand the long-term consequences of debt, and some of the other costs associated with grad school that are not as obvious.
 
Mar 2, 2018
6
0
Status
Psychology Student
Hey everyone,

I need help deciding between Adler University, The Wright Institute, and Pacific University (Oregon). I am just having a hard time making a decision here. Thanks in advance!!
 

WisNeuro

Board Certified Neuropsychologist
10+ Year Member
Feb 15, 2009
12,118
12,225
Somewhere
Status
Psychologist
Hey everyone,

I need help deciding between Adler University, The Wright Institute, and Pacific University (Oregon). I am just having a hard time making a decision here. Thanks in advance!!
What are their respective APA-accredited match rates and debt loads?
 
Mar 2, 2018
6
0
Status
Psychology Student
What are their respective APA-accredited match rates and debt loads?
Adler is 88%, Wright is 76%, and Pacfic was 65%.

After its all said and done, Adler would be the most expensive at 165,000 and both the wright and pacific will be about 20,000-30,000 less
 

WisNeuro

Board Certified Neuropsychologist
10+ Year Member
Feb 15, 2009
12,118
12,225
Somewhere
Status
Psychologist
Adler is 88%, Wright is 76%, and Pacfic was 65%.

After its all said and done, Adler would be the most expensive at 165,000 and both the wright and pacific will be about 20,000-30,000 less
Those debt numbers seem a little off. For example, Adler has tuition set at 50k/year for tuition alone. Do they have assistantships/fellowships guaranteed? Also, need to factor in living expenses. All three will put you about 3-5 times the max debt I would recommend for this career. But, if you're deadest on these programs despite the crushing debt, here we go. At least for my emphasis area, Adler and Wright have terrible reputations. I will not take interns/postdocs from there. Pacific has a better reputation, but lately they seem to be trending downward. I will consider taking interns/postdocs from there, but they usually have to be an outlier in their program (i.e., going well above and beyond the usual course of things). Take that for what you will and keep an eye on what congress and the president do to loan repayment programs.
 
Mar 1, 2018
16
10
Status
Psychology Student
Personally, I think if you're considering clinical psychology at the doctoral level you should not limit yourself to just Psy.D programs. A proper Psy.D program should emphasize a balance between clinical and research training, just as a Ph.D does. What a lot of the more senior members on this board are trying to get at is the return on investment of a degree. With what psychology salaries look like, it's not ideal to go to extreme debt like people do in MD programs. You're right though in that fully-funded programs are extremely competitive. However, from what I've been told, it's generally feasible to get there if you take an extra 2-years to work full-time in a lab and showcase some research productivity. A two year time investment to avoid decades worth of debt repayment is not a bad trade-off. FIT can provide you with the opportunities to be a strong psychologist, and we do have above-average funding opportunities for a PsyD program. Psych.meout and myself are both just trying to make sure you understand the long-term consequences of debt, and some of the other costs associated with grad school that are not as obvious.
Thank you for your response. I understand where you're coming from, but I didn't want to risk waiting 2 more years in a lab without certainty of getting accepted to a PhD fully-funded program in clinical psych while I could just start a PsyD program and get onto my career, quicker. I was fortunate enough to attend an UG university that had PhD programs as well as PsyD in clinical psych. During my time as an UG student, I worked as an RA in many graduate labs and did not enjoy it. Additionally, one thing the PhD students in clinical psych made sure to emphasize was that if you don't want to end up working in academia/ research environments- don't pursue the PhD. I've seen the amount of time these students spent, between conducting their own research, meeting publishing deadlines, working in their labs, studying for classes, and attending practica- they had to work significantly harder than the PsyD students just to make sure they are keeping up with research demands beyond learning the clinical aspects of the field.

I don't see it as a wise decision to pursue the PhD track if my goals are definitely not to enter academia. Yes, I will probably feel the **** end of this decision once I graduate and have to start making monthly loan payments but at that point, I will have completed my graduate degree, after going through 5 yrs of a program I actually wanted to attend, and can start working in the capacity I want to work in, I'm aware I still have to do research in PsyD program but in comparison to the amount of research a typically, fully-funded PhD program requires- it is fundamentally different.

Also, it's kinda just the nature of the beast. For the training/ experience, I want to get in gradaute school, the PsyD program best meets my goals. Unfortunately, these programs are genrally not funded. Ive accepted that bc I want to work in this field as a psycholgoist and the alternate option is not one I want to pursue based off of previous knowledge and observation of those who pursued that path.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psychchic90

WisNeuro

Board Certified Neuropsychologist
10+ Year Member
Feb 15, 2009
12,118
12,225
Somewhere
Status
Psychologist
During my time as an UG student, I worked as an RA in many graduate labs and did not enjoy it. Additionally, one thing the PhD students in clinical psych made sure to emphasize was that if you don't want to end up working in academia/ research environments- don't pursue the PhD. I've seen the amount of time these students spent, between conducting their own research, meeting publishing deadlines, working in their labs, studying for classes, and attending practica- they had to work significantly harder than the PsyD students just to make sure they are keeping up with research demands beyond learning the clinical aspects of the field.
This is simply untrue in many of the balanced PhD programs, of which there are many. This is simply misinformation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: qwerty729

psych.meout

5+ Year Member
Oct 5, 2015
2,001
1,560
Status
DO/PhD Student
Thank you for your response. I understand where you're coming from, but I didn't want to risk waiting 2 more years in a lab without certainty of getting accepted to a PhD fully-funded program in clinical psych while I could just start a PsyD program and get onto my career, quicker. I was fortunate enough to attend an UG university that had PhD programs as well as PsyD in clinical psych. During my time as an UG student, I worked as an RA in many graduate labs and did not enjoy it. Additionally, one thing the PhD students in clinical psych made sure to emphasize was that if you don't want to end up working in academia/ research environments- don't pursue the PhD. I've seen the amount of time these students spent, between conducting their own research, meeting publishing deadlines, working in their labs, studying for classes, and attending practica- they had to work significantly harder than the PsyD students just to make sure they are keeping up with research demands beyond learning the clinical aspects of the field.

I don't see it as a wise decision to pursue the PhD track if my goals are definitely not to enter academia. Yes, I will probably feel the **** end of this decision once I graduate and have to start making monthly loan payments but at that point, I will have completed my graduate degree, after going through 5 yrs of a program I actually wanted to attend, and can start working in the capacity I want to work in, I'm aware I still have to do research in PsyD program but in comparison to the amount of research a typically, fully-funded PhD program requires- it is fundamentally different.

Also, it's kinda just the nature of the beast. For the training/ experience, I want to get in gradaute school, the PsyD program best meets my goals. Unfortunately, these programs are genrally not funded. Ive accepted that bc I want to work in this field as a psycholgoist and the alternate option is not one I want to pursue based off of previous knowledge and observation of those who pursued that path.
This is why one of the most important lesson you learn even in undergrad is that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data." Maybe these things are true for the particular students you spoke to at this particular university, but it just really isn't true in general. Even for PhD programs with clinical science orientations, a significant portion, if not most, students are going to have careers with some kind of clinical focus. There are just not enough TT faculty and pure research positions for even just the clinical science students, let alone all PhD students. In general, most grads of PhD programs end up doing clinical work somewhere, whether it's an AMC, VAMC, state hospital, private practice, etc. The stats are out there if you look for them.

As far as the disparity in research focus between PsyD and PhD programs goes, I don't think you really understand the purpose of doing research. It's not just meant to train people to be TT faculty or researchers, nor is it just some kind annoying, obtuse APA requirement to slog through. A key goal of it is to train you to be a good consumer of research for use in clinical practice. This is not to say that no PsyD programs provide this training, but rather that if you're looking for a doctoral program to get you out of as much research as possible, then you're kind of missing the point of grad school.
 
  • Like
Reactions: qwerty729

wtfook

2+ Year Member
Dec 29, 2015
184
109
Status
Psychology Student
Thank you for your response. I understand where you're coming from, but I didn't want to risk waiting 2 more years in a lab without certainty of getting accepted to a PhD fully-funded program in clinical psych while I could just start a PsyD program and get onto my career, quicker. I was fortunate enough to attend an UG university that had PhD programs as well as PsyD in clinical psych. During my time as an UG student, I worked as an RA in many graduate labs and did not enjoy it. Additionally, one thing the PhD students in clinical psych made sure to emphasize was that if you don't want to end up working in academia/ research environments- don't pursue the PhD. I've seen the amount of time these students spent, between conducting their own research, meeting publishing deadlines, working in their labs, studying for classes, and attending practica- they had to work significantly harder than the PsyD students just to make sure they are keeping up with research demands beyond learning the clinical aspects of the field.

I don't see it as a wise decision to pursue the PhD track if my goals are definitely not to enter academia. Yes, I will probably feel the **** end of this decision once I graduate and have to start making monthly loan payments but at that point, I will have completed my graduate degree, after going through 5 yrs of a program I actually wanted to attend, and can start working in the capacity I want to work in, I'm aware I still have to do research in PsyD program but in comparison to the amount of research a typically, fully-funded PhD program requires- it is fundamentally different.

Also, it's kinda just the nature of the beast. For the training/ experience, I want to get in gradaute school, the PsyD program best meets my goals. Unfortunately, these programs are genrally not funded. Ive accepted that bc I want to work in this field as a psycholgoist and the alternate option is not one I want to pursue based off of previous knowledge and observation of those who pursued that path.
As others have said, PhD programs are varied just like PsyD programs are varied. There are many PhD programs (at least partially funded) that are balanced or more clinically focused. It's unclear to me how you can be so absolutely sure that all PhD programs only train researchers and academics when you yourself have not actually attended a doctoral program yet, only spoke with doctoral students at your institution, and (as it seems) did not actually research what PhD programs had to offer. I could be wrong. Your other responses did not make the last point particularly clear so excuse me if I assumed wrong. Rather than potentially looking into fully funded PhD programs to see if there are ones that are more balanced or clinically focused, you decided to simply to choose the expensive route, despite knowing that you will regret it later. You assumed, before researching, that you would hate 5 years at a PhD and love 5 years at a PsyD.

I think what everyone has been trying to emphasize is not eliminating an entire host of choices simply off the observations and assertions of people at a single institution when there are scores of APA accredited programs of the PhD variety to check out. It seems like you're still pretty young. Why limit the happiness you can have in the future by accepting a ton of debt now, when there are lots of options for you to NOT do that?
 
Apr 4, 2018
1
0
I am also seeking advice about which master program to attend in order to be more prepared for a PhD program. I have a choice between an MA in Forensic Psychology from Fairleigh Dickinson University and an MA in Clinical Psychology with a focus in Forensics from Montclair State University. I ultimately am seeking a PhD in Clinical Psychology with an emphasis in Forensics. My dilemma is this: you don't technically need a masters in order to attend the PhD program, however I am set on attending one of the two programs mentioned above. There is significant overlap in class requirements between the clinical Masters program and the clinical PhD program, however, most PhD programs will only accept 12 transfer credit hours. I do not want to complete 2 years of schooling just to repeat some of the same courses in my doctoral study. In addition, the clinical psychology masters program from Montclair does not culminate in licensure. So should I attend the program that will count some classes towards my doctoral degree, or should I complete the program that will provide me with a deeper knowledge in the forensic aspect before completing the clinical part? Any advice would be appreciated
 

Therapist4Chnge

Neuropsych Ninja Faculty
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Oct 7, 2006
21,806
2,998
The Beach
Status
Psychologist
Unless your GPA is low or you need a masters to apply to your top PhD program, skip masters training and go work/volunteer in a research lab.

Forensic psych is a doctoral sub-speciality, and the guts of it is built upon general doctoral training. Most/All of those “speciality” training programs exist to generate revenue. They aren't licensable and couple cost $30k+, so there is little upside. They cover the basics, but that’s putting the cart before the horse.
 
About the Ads