1. The SDN iPhone App is back and free through November! Get it today and please post a review on the App Store!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Dismiss Notice

"Help me decide" mega thread

Discussion in 'Psychology [Psy.D. / Ph.D.]' started by IcedBennu, Mar 23, 2012.

  1. Justanothergrad

    Justanothergrad Counseling Psychologist
    Psychologist Faculty 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,368
    Likes Received:
    933
    Good programs should be consistent in their quality. That a program is not suggests that the outlier student outcomes (i.e., in a PsyD program that means things like being competitive for APA internship match, having low debt, etc.) are not attributable to the training model since all students receive the same training.

    Being competitive for an accredited internship isn't a high bar, thats literally the lowest bar. Everyone should be at that point, bar minimum. If I need to see a doctor, I want my doctor to have a accredited medical degree. That's a bare minimum. Same thing.
     
    Therapist4Chnge likes this.
  2. Note: SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. psych.meout

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,385
    Likes Received:
    745
    Status:
    Pre-Psychology
    Why not? Why aren't match rates, one of the most important and relatively low bars, indicative of the quality of training offered by a given program?

    Furthermore, why should it be acceptable to not have an APA accredited internship? Why should convenience or other considerations take precedence over good training? Why should we tolerate psychologists getting sub-standard training if they are going to provide clinical services to the public? It wouldn't be tolerated for physicians, so why should it be tolerated for psychologists? Why is it that mental health is treated as less important compared to physical health by allowing less qualified individuals to provide services?
     
  4. Expms22

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    Hey Everyone! This is my first time posting so please forgive me if I was supposed to post this on another thread. I applied to exclusively to Clinical PsyD programs this year, got into a couple, and just wanted to get an idea on which schools I should go to and which schools I should avoid. This whole thing is stressing me out as i'm sure you all know. So far its between

    Adler University
    The Wright Institute
    Pacific University
    Midwestern University
    3 argosy's (chicago, DC, Florida)
    Alliant (LA)

    Do any of these have particularly bad reputations or does anyone stand out as clearly the best one? Thanks in advance!!
     
  5. bellezza1994

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    15
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    First off congrats on the acceptances! Second, I would look at the following factors of each program: cost, scholarship availability, internship match rate, and the size of the incoming class =).
     
  6. DSMX

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    36
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    You will have to pay a lot more for the professional schools (Argosy, Alliant, Wright). Expect 6 figure costs in total. I would do a serious examination of what you can afford, and avoid as much debt as is possible. It's not impossible to survive on a 6 figure debt figure from graduate school, but it won't be easy.
     
  7. AcronymAllergy

    AcronymAllergy Neuropsychologist
    Moderator Psychologist Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    7,081
    Likes Received:
    1,358
    Status:
    Psychologist
    Mod Note: Moved to the "Help Me Decide" Mega thread

    Quick reply: Alliant and Argosy generally have fairly poor reputations; coupled with cost, I personally would recommend avoiding them. Adler is also very expensive. Their APA-accredited match rate looks to have been improving over the past couple years, but they have very large class sizes, are also expensive, and have fairly high attrition rates.
     
  8. Justanothergrad

    Justanothergrad Counseling Psychologist
    Psychologist Faculty 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,368
    Likes Received:
    933
    There are a number of threads here about alliant, argosy, Wright, Adler, etc. Long story short they're bad. Really bad. Bad in a way that will impact your professional career. Ditto on Pacific and Midwestern. And then there is the insane debt.
     
    Psychologist_dreamer likes this.
  9. singasongofjoy

    Psychologist 2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2014
    Messages:
    722
    Likes Received:
    465
    Status:
    Post Doc
    Frankly I would steer clear of all of those. Better to take a year or more off to make yourself competitive for more reputable (and well-funded) programs.
     
    MamaPhD and Therapist4Chnge like this.
  10. Expms22

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    I should note that coupled with the money I have saved up and the funding I got from a private scholarship I will graduate with very little to no debt so that isn't really the issue for me.
     
  11. Justanothergrad

    Justanothergrad Counseling Psychologist
    Psychologist Faculty 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,368
    Likes Received:
    933
    Here are the facts, if you opt to attend any of those programs
    - You will attend schools that limit your professional career because of their HORRIBLE reputation (licensure, internship, postdoc, EPPP, etc are all worse in outcome)
    - You will spend money that you have saved which could otherwise be building your retirement, buying you a house, etc. and thereby reducing your long-term wealth.
    - You will receive worse quality training and are more likely to come out as a weaker provider

    To harp on this whole "I don't have debt- I saved the money" argument I hear on here all the time a bit further, any money you spend is money you don't have. If its debt versus if you just spend it now, the same thing applies - that is money you no longer are in possession of. You are poorer because of it. Making the argument you already saved it doesn't change that its a poor economic decision to invest money into these programs. In addition to that, you would be the exception in the range of the .001% (my estimate based on the avg debt load info APPIC puts out) if you graduate from those programs without debt/cost to you (which, btw, you wont do- see the point above about investing savings). You may think that is the case, but consider that low probability. This is not an uncommon thing that we hear on the forum and yet it is an uncommon outcome. Those things don't jive.
     
  12. singasongofjoy

    Psychologist 2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2014
    Messages:
    722
    Likes Received:
    465
    Status:
    Post Doc
    Still doesn’t make it a smart investment.
     
    bellezza1994 likes this.
  13. clinpsych55

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2016
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    21
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    Help! I’m deciding between two Ph.D. programs that have extended offers to me. Both are fully-funded clinical science programs, and both POIs are well-respected researchers with a track record of producing successful tenure-track faculty (my end-goal). Admittedly, it’s a good problem to have. Beyond that, though, some pros and cons of each include:

    Program A:
    - Opportunity to engage in multigenerational, genetically-informed research on my topic of interest.
    - Excellent quant training, which is important to me.
    - I felt more rapport with the grad students and faculty than at the other program.
    - Potential for a predoctoral fellowship offered by the program in years 4-5, and students have a history of getting NSF/NRSA funding.
    - Unfortunately, the POI is taking an extended sabbatical beginning in what would be my 3rd year, and essentially it seems like she’s on her way out to retirement. I would have a co-mentor who would take over at this time - our research interests are not as well-aligned, but it seems like I’d be able to continue working with the main POI’s data as much as I’d like.

    Program B:
    - Opportunity to do research on several unique populations of interest to me.
    - Neuroimaging training is available here, but not at the other institution. I think this would be a useful tool to have.
    - POI has lots of funding and I wouldn’t need to TA.
    - POI has a reputation of being very demanding. Students in her lab don’t seem to have much of a work-life balance and seem a bit unhappy.
    - Would require about an hour commute each way to accommodate my partner’s needs (he would be attending law school in a nearby city).
    - The city we’d be living with seems much richer with culture, and I think I’d enjoy it more than the alternate school’s location.

    If anyone can weigh in, I’d really appreciate your insight!
     
  14. psych.meout

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,385
    Likes Received:
    745
    Status:
    Pre-Psychology
    Is Program A in or near the city where your partner is going to law school that you didn't list it as an issue as you did for Program B? Don't underestimate how the commute will affect you. It's one thing to commute to a practicum one or two days a week for a year, but a completely different story if your commute is an hour each way to school. Even if you don't mind the drive, just consider losing two hours each day you have to go to school. You could better use that time more productively.

    As far as the "richer with culture" part, you're going to be fairly busy and not making much money in grad school, especially if your partner is also in school, so it won't be as big of a factor as you might think or hope now.

    The POI and rapport are going to be the biggest factors. You seem far more apt to go with program A, for both the POI and other grad students, so I would lean towards that, but having your POI retire during your tenure there definitely puts a wrinkle in it. Maybe if you knew for sure you could continue doing the research you want and not much would change it would be ok, but I'm wary of that.
     
  15. clinpsych55

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2016
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    21
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    Thanks for your response. Yes, in the case of Program A, my partner would be attending law school at the same university, so that wouldn’t be a concern. I can definitely see the commute at Program B wearing on me, and I could tolerate the location of Program A since I’ll be so busy. Program A really does seem like the better choice, but the potential of my mentor retiring is primarily what gives me pause. I do get the sense that I’d be able to continue doing the research I’m interested in after she leaves, but it’s also possible that I’d have to spend time on research that I care much less about for my secondary mentor. I have a call set up with the secondary mentor this week to clarify what her expectations are, so hopefully that should grant me some clarity.
     
  16. singasongofjoy

    Psychologist 2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2014
    Messages:
    722
    Likes Received:
    465
    Status:
    Post Doc
    Re: Program B: "Students in her lab don’t seem to have much of a work-life balance and seem a bit unhappy" + "Would require about an hour commute each way to accommodate my partner’s needs" and "The city we’d be living with seems much richer with culture, and I think I’d enjoy it more than the alternate school’s location" seem at odds with one another- if you're too busy/burned out doesn't matter where you live, it will kind of suck. Does that fun city have a super high cost of living to go with it? Take that into consideration.

    What is the attrition rate in Program B's lab?

    Having graduated just a few years ago and with the stressors of grad school still fresh on my mind, I would be wary of program B because I think work-life balance is hard enough to achieve anyway. My adviser was known as demanding as well, and temperamental, although I managed to always stay on his good side by some stroke of luck (and sleepless nights). But the stress did a number on my relationship with my partner and my physical health. On the plus side, the students kind of bonded over the challenges and our lab was really close, although I found myself trying to play diplomat to make sure work was evenly distributed at times and to prevent problems from getting to the point of our adviser getting involved (ya know, temper and all that). After the stress of grad school I have a whole new perspective on prioritizing work/life, but take my perspective with some grains of salt because I realized during internship-- after hearing the other interns talk about their experiences - that my experience / level of stress was very atypical.

    Would your partner be able to pursue their goals in program A? That's important too.

    If you keep a strong relationsihp in years 1-2 and get strong momentum going with your research, I think you could come up with a good game plan for year 3.

    Another thing to consider is what do you want to do when you finish? Personally, I would go with program A unless my partner had a compelling reason to choose program B (i.e., they really really wanted to go there for law school) which would give me pause.

    ETA- just saw above your partner would be attending school either way. Program A all the way over here.
     
  17. Justanothergrad

    Justanothergrad Counseling Psychologist
    Psychologist Faculty 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,368
    Likes Received:
    933
    Your life starts now and doesn't wait. Finding an area that is congruent with your values and free time is important (and despite all the work, grad students do go out and they make that a part of their life). The quality of life is a major deciding issue for me- this is both in terms of area culture but also in terms of things like the commute. Both sound like they will fit what you need professionally so I would make the decision based on your personal values- where do you want to live, what was it like to interact with the professor/grad students in each lab (this is a major win for program A in my book), did the department culture feel better at one, or what type of work/life balance did they have (including commute time- You may also explore living halfway between. 30 minute commutes are FAR easier than an hour).

    Look at it like this- you're starting a 5-6 year relationship. Who do you want to spend (and who would you enjoy spending) the next 5 years in a serious, time-consuming relationship with?
     
    calimich likes this.
  18. clinpsych55

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2016
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    21
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    Thanks for the input, everyone. It's really helped me to better envision what each scenario would entail. I've been moving closer and closer to choosing option A but plan to talk over the options with my current advisor before making the jump.

    Much appreciated!
     
    Justanothergrad likes this.
  19. MamaPhD

    MamaPhD Psychologist, Academic Medical Center
    Psychologist 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,865
    Likes Received:
    1,685
    Status:
    Psychologist
    You've received some good advice. I would also be wary of Option B.
     
  20. logicpsych2012

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    29
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    Hey guys, I need some help!
    (My top choice is a PhD, but I'm on the waitlist, so if that doesn't pan out, here are my options)

    School A (PsyD): Internship 100% Licensure > 95%
    - Very well funded, esp for a PsyD. Tuition is <5k a year, plus you get a stipend, provided you teach (I have a college fund specifically for tuition which would cover the entirety of tutition/fees). And yes everyone receives the same funding.
    - I *think* it has a very nice name attached (it's not Baylor/Rutgers but I'd consider it top 5 in the country)
    - Very small cohorts, no more than 10
    - The PI and I got along very well, definitely seems like someone I could work with
    - Students (especially in my interest of forensic place very well)
    However...
    - I really did not like the other faculty members that much.. One even said something slightly racist during a group interview and in general the faculty is overwhelmingly white and male.
    -I didn't like the current students that much (idk how much that should influence my decision, but I didn't get great vibes from some of them)
    -Overall, I didn't LOVE the program. I'm sure I wouldn't be miserable, but I don't know if I'd be thrilled either

    School B (PsyD): Internship 100% Licensure >97%
    -Okay funded. Some tuition remission, small stipend. There are opportunities for full tuition waivers, but you have to seek them out. Overall I'm looking at 50-60k max in loans to cover everything
    -Also I *think* it has an okay name attached to it. There students have placed very very well out of the program
    -Small cohorts, no more than 15
    -I liked my PI there and there is an additional faculty who also studies my area of interest. Also the PI & additional faculty are very good friends with my undergraduate professor who I am currently doing research with
    -Faculty and current students were much more diverse
    -I would say it's the stronger program in terms of forensic work
    - In general, I thought it was the best fit out of all my programs (even the PhD)
    ....The ONLY Cons is
    - long commute for Prac 3rd and 4th year

    So my question is... Am I crazy to choose School B?
    My partner has a great job, where he can work anywhere in the country with a salary in the low 6 figures. I figure once I'm done with grad school, our dual income will be relatively nice, and I can pay back loans from School B somewhat quickly.
    Is that naive to think?

    Or should I go with School A even though I didn't love it just for the money?
     
  21. psych.meout

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,385
    Likes Received:
    745
    Status:
    Pre-Psychology
    Isn't this "slightly racist" as well?
     
  22. logicpsych2012

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    29
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    No, the faculty being 99% men and 99% white is an observation.
    A school can't preach diversity and inclusion and yet fail to hire diverse staff and have cohorts that are all white.
    As a minority student, a diverse atmosphere is a plus.
     
  23. wtfook

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    107
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    I would agree with @logicpsych2012 noticing demographics is not racist and noticing a lack of diversity is also not racist, especially since faculty in clinical programs tend to be overwhelmingly white and male. Also, racism is commonly defined as an institutional discrimination against historically oppressed groups. So biased or discriminatory perhaps but operationally not racist by definition of the word since in this country racism doesn't include white men.
     
  24. psych.meout

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,385
    Likes Received:
    745
    Status:
    Pre-Psychology
    Wow. I'm done with this.
     
  25. wtfook

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    107
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    cool.
     
    Psychologist_dreamer and mishpug like this.
  26. inert Psychologist

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    You are not crazy, I would go with School B. Environment is crucial.

    I wouldn't say racist, that holds a strong connotation to it, biased observation if anything. Depending on what the professor told logicpsych2012 it could have just been a microaggression as oppose to "slightly racist" and while some may argue what the difference is, I like to differentiate that microaggressions originate from ignorance while racism originates from bigotry. Now there is obviously much more to it than that, but I honestly don't have much experience in those topics of research/training to make credible posts.

    I agree with the first part but let's be careful alienating "the other side" when discussing topics of this nature. It is absolutely possible to be racist to white males, for example, generalizing white males can't play basket because they can't jump/are worse than black males and actively avoiding recruiting them. Now it's not historically damaging or destroys their culture but we can't take them out of the dialogue if we want to discuss these issues. This statement took psych.meout of the discussion because I'm sure he is thinking "how do I even approach someone with this mindset?"
     
  27. freeprozac

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2018
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    4
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    I am a Masters in Clinical Psych student, graduating this May. I have a lot of academic research experience and clinical experience of volunteering at an inpatient unit. I applied to 12 programs this year, got 2 interviews but didn't get accepted. (Still waiting to hear back from one program.) I'm not sure what to do next. My Masters now is the kind that doesn't lead to licensure. Should I try to pursue a Masters in Counseling?
    Or should I try to get a research-related job (maybe clinical coordinator) and then reapply to the PhD? (And improve my GREs in the meantime)
     
  28. Amarysso

    Classifieds Approved 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Psychology Student

    What is the end goal? Forgetting all the programs and accreditations, what do you want to be doing? How do you want to be dividing your time? Do you want to teach at a university? do you want to primarily work as a counselor/psychologist, do you want to do research or a combo of any?
    Getting an LMHC is absolutely a good option, for someone who wants to be in private practice and wants to focus on clinical skills and therapy. There are some very strong M.A programs out there that lead to licensure - with the requisite hours post completion, which depends on what state you want to practice in.

    If you are thinking you want to work in academia, then a PhD would probably be your best bet.
     
  29. freeprozac

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2018
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    4
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    My main issue with the LMHC is that other international students told me it was difficult to get employment. And you cannot apply for federal jobs, which supposedly limits your search for placements.

    Great questions. My main passions are psychodynamic therapies for personality disorders (like TFP) and neuroscientific research related to chronic stress. I'm interested in research and would want to publish but I would absolutely want to have my own practice. I would never go into a PhD program that has no clinical component, for instance. I really wanted to pursue the Clinical PhD but the acceptance process is very strange and unpredictable, it feels like rolling the dice again next year.
     
  30. logicpsych2012

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    29
    Status:
    Psychology Student

    I appreciate your post and you're right, it was a microaggression. I thought it would be easier to label it slightly racist for people to understand, but thanks for your clarification. Regardless, it made me feel uncomfortable and a little out of place due to the faculty and students being overwhelmingly white.

    School B leaving me 60k in debt would be okay? Obviously if I get into the PhD program, I'll head there, but I just hope I'm not naive in thinking 60k in debt with my partner's salary plus my starting salary would definitely be surmountable relatively quickly.
     
  31. inert Psychologist

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    Do you think the POI in school A will be an advocate for you/have your back? You mentioned you got along well but if the program is a so-so fit you really have to weigh the importance of your POI fit/relationship when thinking of school A.

    60k is not a lot in the grand scheme of things only if its not due to your partner contributing A LOT to your finances (you should count his contributions as "debt" too when picking between schools). I personally hate debt and always try and discourage people from taking out loans but as long as its below your expected first year salary (avg. 70kish) and the program is a great fit I'd consider it. If your "gut" is telling you School B is right, I wouldn't let 60k debt (but no more than this) discourage your pursuit. As for commutes for externships, if its below 1hr to the location it shouldn't be too bad.
     
  32. freeprozac

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2018
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    4
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    May I ask what is School A? Never heard of this type of funding for a PsyD!
     
  33. Psychisfun43

    Joined:
    May 13, 2017
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    32
    Status:
    Pre-Psychology
    I think this could go in here. Is it appropriate to email the director of the program to ask what waitlist spot you are currently in? Got waitlisted at my top choice but I don’t know what spot I hold. I’m thinking about calling them to see what waitlist spot I hold.
     
  34. logicpsych2012

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    29
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    According to APA - schools are supposed to tell you whether you are High, Mid, or Low.. They do not have to tell you an exact spot, but they should tell you at least that.
     
    Psychisfun43 likes this.
  35. Psychisfun43

    Joined:
    May 13, 2017
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    32
    Status:
    Pre-Psychology
    Oh wow, I’ll send the email then! Thanks!
     
  36. psyched!!!

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2018
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Psychology
    I recently was accepted to University of San Francisco's Psy.D program and am debating between USF and Wright Institute's Psy.D program (I already had an interview and am waiting to hear back).
    USF's program is newer, has WASC accreditation, does not have APA accreditation (it is at the end stages of this process), it's closer to home, and seems like a good environment, would be about a cohort of 13-15 more or less.
    Wright's program has is more established, and has APA accreditation, a little further from home, also a good environment (but during the open house, the students and faculty did not all give off a warm "vibe", cohort size is about 20 to 60 (i'm getting mixed answers).
    tuition for 5 years is almost the same.

    any input would be appreciated.
     
  37. Expms22

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    Hey! Just curious what anybody knows about Pacific University's PsyD program? I just got in and want to know how its perceived or better yet if anyone has gone there and what there experience was like?

    Thanks so much in advance!
     
  38. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist
    Psychologist 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    8,707
    Likes Received:
    6,802
    Status:
    Psychologist
    If it's the one in Palo Alto, it's ok, if it's the one in Oregon, less than ok.
     
  39. Expms22

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    Its the one in Oregon, what makes it less ok if you don't mind me asking?
     
  40. PsychedUp313

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    9
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    Pacific doesn't have the best reputation. Their APA match rates were only 65% last year and why I declined interviewing there.
     
  41. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist
    Psychologist 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    8,707
    Likes Received:
    6,802
    Status:
    Psychologist
    Historically terrible match rates, and I haven't seen many good CVs coming out of there.
     
  42. psych.meout

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,385
    Likes Received:
    745
    Status:
    Pre-Psychology
    And their cohorts are huge. How are you supposed to get proper mentoring, have access to the high quality practica of your choice, and get the other essentials of doctoral training when all cohort are >50?

    Just one of their cohorts is twice as big as my entire program.
     
  43. PecanForest

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    George Washington
    Pros:
    - 4 year program
    - $30,000 scholarship
    - high licensure rate (90%)
    - associated with university (more resources, name recognition)
    - smaller cohort (25 people/year)

    Cons:
    - lower APA accredited internship match rate
    - DC less preferable to live in than CA
    - only psychodynamic orientation (not necessarily bad, but maybe wouldn’t prepare me as well?)

    The Wright Institute
    Pros:
    - high APA accredited internship match rate
    - would love to live in SF
    - clinics for various orientations

    Cons:
    - not sure about school reputation
    - lower licensure rate
    - larger cohort (60 people/year)
    - 5 year program

    I’m incredibly torn. Any help would be appreciated!
     
  44. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist
    Psychologist 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    8,707
    Likes Received:
    6,802
    Status:
    Psychologist
    The Wright Institute does not have high accredited match rates.
     
  45. psych.meout

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,385
    Likes Received:
    745
    Status:
    Pre-Psychology
  46. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist
    Psychologist 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    8,707
    Likes Received:
    6,802
    Status:
    Psychologist
    As an aside, the bar for accredited match percentage should be much higher in recent years. There have been many more accredited positions opened up within the past 5 years. So, a 76% in this climate would be something equivalent to 50% in say, 2012. Anything lower than a 90% in the current internship climate is really unacceptable given the sheer number of spots that now exist.
     
    psych.meout likes this.
  47. AcronymAllergy

    AcronymAllergy Neuropsychologist
    Moderator Psychologist Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    7,081
    Likes Received:
    1,358
    Status:
    Psychologist
    Mod Note: Merged in the "help me decide" mega thread
     
  48. Groupthink

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    34
    I graduated the GW PsyD program and I have mostly good things to say about it. I matched to an APA-accredited internship and I am now licensed and practicing at a college counseling center, including sitting on an internship committee review panel.

    The network the GW program has is quite strong, especially if you are psychodynamic in orientation. It is an APA-accredited program, and therefore they do not teach "only a psychodynamic orientation". Yes, the faculty are strongly dynamic, but you do not lose out on being taught other modalities. Remember that much of the theory learning in graduate school is self-taught, being guided via professors and counseled on practical skills through applied classes and supervision. The reputation of the program is quite good, and they have connections for practicum sites at St Elizabeth's, the local VA, Chestnut Lodge, Howard University, among other opportunities. And again I cannot stress enough that if you are psychodynamic, the network is excellent. When I was training there I met, via faculty, esteemed dynamic researchers McWilliams, Gelso, Safran, Shedler, etc.

    The major cons about GW are the cost of living and the cost of the program. Despite having a larger cohort compared to PhD programs, I would argue that GW has the faculty to match the demand. Granted, I'm biased given that I am an alum, but access to faculty and supervision was never a concern for my cohort. Additionally, I was attending at the time the GW program was "on probation" from the APA, and I hear things have only improved since then.

    And, TBH, a big guiding principle for me is simply: time. You will have your entire career to learn skills and study. Becoming a psychologist is a lifelong journey. Though it's quite rigorous, doing the program in 4 years was a huge benefit to me as opposed to other programs that took longer. The journey to licensure takes a good 6 to 8 years (4 years for GW program, and 1 to 2 years for postdoc), so I wanted to save as much time as I could.

    Send me a private message and I would be happy to speak to you about the program over the phone.
     
    super.ego likes this.
  49. Amarysso

    Classifieds Approved 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    I am an international student also - my apologies I had not realized you fell into this category also. Without a doubt, I would not advise the LMHC if you are in this category, especially if you are based in NY. It is virtually impossible to get all your hours, post graduation to qualify for licensure, hence it is waste of time and money.
    Id be glad to chat more and offer you some info, as I did make the misinformed mistake of pursuing an M.A myself, and have now gotten accepted into two Clinical PhD programs in the NY area. DM me if you want to discuss further, happy to try and help
     
  50. Amarysso

    Classifieds Approved 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Psychology Student
    Hi All!
    Like everyone else, looking for some advice and input here. I am lucky enough to have two offers - from both Adelphi and LIU Brooklyn - and I am trying to assess how to make this decision.

    Both programs are very comparable in price, so my decision will be based on other factors such as the quality of supervision and training, as well as the opportunities 'afforded' by going to that school- particularly in terms of placements and future career paths - including academic pursuits such as tenure-track opportunities.

    I would like specific information about the programs if anyone has some, but also, things I should ask or pay attention to before making my decision. I am an international student, so I cannot really go attend a class or meet students - financially that trip would not make sense, and I am finding it hard to make such an important decision based on "paper".

    Adelphi requires students to take more courses than those outlined by the APA, and has a curriculum of 130 credits, whereas LIU is a standard 90. But I am aware more does not necessarily mean better.

    Any advice on how to assess the strengths of each program and things I should take into consideration would be greatly appreciated.
    Thank you
     
    #949 Amarysso, Mar 13, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  51. calimich

    calimich Assistant Professor
    Psychologist Faculty 2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    300
    Status:
    Psychologist

    If these are your only options I'd go with Wright. It's already APA accredited and has a better regional reputation. USF is a good school, however the newness of the program and lack of APA accreditation make it a riskier choice than Wright, imo.

    Also, it seems being close to home is important to you. USF and Wright are both in the Bay Area and literally less than 20 miles apart. Please remember you will need to complete an internship, and if you want to be licensed in CA, a postdoc. Trainees usually relocate for internship, and often again for postdoc, sometimes across the country. The Bay, while wonderful and diverse, is saturated with psychology trainees and *everyone* in the country wants to do some training here -- it's highly unlikely you'll be able to complete all aspects training in the Bay.
     

Share This Page