wtfook

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Dec 29, 2015
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Hey this is really helpful! Thanks so much!
Yeah no problem! I can feel your pain when it comes to needing to stay in a certain geographic region. It's something I'm thinking about a lot, even though I'm a couple years away from internship year. On one hand you've got your career to think about that you've worked really hard for. On the other you have loved ones or other obligations that necessitate you stick around. And sometimes the ideal situation may not arise. It's tough for sure.
 
Aug 28, 2018
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Hello, this is my first post here and I have been struggling to find some recent information on some schools I am thinking of applying to. I am hoping this forum can help me out and perhaps share some opinions on what's up. I just recently got my bachelors in psychology, and I am hoping to apply to graduate programs over this coming fall. I have a few researched, and in fact I am going to take my GRE today...of which I am not too confident, but we all got to do what we all got to do.

Regarding specific schools. I live in Southern California, and there are a few campuses near me that I am hoping to collect data on. Does anyone have any experiences with the Chicago School of Professional Psychology or John F. Kennedy University? From what I can tell, they both have many reviews both in support of them or against them. Ranging from systemic and shady practices, or actually not too bad, or decent. Like, I am going to be talking to some enrollment advisors and I think I will be asking them about this range of information, but I would want to go in knowing a little more. Though the fact they both have APA accreditation for their clinical psychology programs is a good sign, everything else concerns me.

Like, I am hoping that I do well in my GRE, or if I bomb it, that perhaps I will not be so horrible in late September or October because it looks like institutions that have GRE requirements are more reputable? Like from what I can tell universities like Azusa Pacific or Fuller are a little more reputable overall. I hope to stay in California because my family has been suffering some setbacks and I need to be available, but I need to do what I need to do.

So...yeah. Urm, anyone got any info or advice?
 

Temperance

2+ Year Member
May 27, 2015
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Regarding specific schools. I live in Southern California, and there are a few campuses near me that I am hoping to collect data on. Does anyone have any experiences with the Chicago School of Professional Psychology or John F. Kennedy University? From what I can tell, they both have many reviews both in support of them or against them. Ranging from systemic and shady practices, or actually not too bad, or decent. Like, I am going to be talking to some enrollment advisors and I think I will be asking them about this range of information, but I would want to go in knowing a little more. Though the fact they both have APA accreditation for their clinical psychology programs is a good sign, everything else concerns me.

Like, I am hoping that I do well in my GRE, or if I bomb it, that perhaps I will not be so horrible in late September or October because it looks like institutions that have GRE requirements are more reputable? Like from what I can tell universities like Azusa Pacific or Fuller are a little more reputable overall. I hope to stay in California because my family has been suffering some setbacks and I need to be available, but I need to do what I need to do.
APA accreditation should not be considered "a good sign" but the minimum standard for a clinical psychology program. To apply for APA-accredited predoctoral internships through the APPIC match, your program must have APA accreditation or be scheduled for an accreditation site visit. If you do not have an APA-accredited internship, then you essentially shoot yourself in the foot before you've even started.

Reviews may be helpful to learn about culture or environment, but the critical information is in the "Student Admissions, Outcomes, and Other Data" spreadsheets that programs are required to post on their website. Look at the rate of placement in APA-accredited internships. The vast majority of programs place 100% of their students. There are some exceptions, especially with smaller cohorts (e.g., three out of four applicants matched, but the one unmatched applicant applied to too few sites or other reasons). However, with programs with larger cohort sizes like the ones you've listed, they need to be placing nearly all of their students. If you're going into clinical work, then look at the licensure percentage rate. California also posts rates of passing the EPPP for each program; look into that, as well.

How will you be paying? The programs you've listed are incredibly expensive and offer very little funding. Taking John F. Kennedy University as an example, their first-year tuition is $33,978. Based on their outcomes data, the average time to graduation is five years. Extrapolating leads to the program costing $169,890 in tuition alone. If you take out $175,000 in loans with a 25-year repayment plan at 6.6% interest -- the rate for federal Direct Unsubsidized loans -- then you can expect to be paying back $1,193 per month. That monthly payment can lock you out of a comfortable living, especially if you want to stay in California where the cost of living is already high.

Having said all of that, the norm for clinical psychology programs is to waive tuition and pay graduate students a stipend and to place them in APA-accredited internships, so it says a lot when a program can't do these things.
 
Feb 8, 2019
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Hello, in need of help deciding which PsyD program to attend. I am interested in the child and clinical concentration.

Widener: offered scholarship for the first 3 years, 100% match rate (integrated - limited to PA), 87% licensure rate, tuition 34k per year for 5 years
Yeshiva (Ferkauf): did not offer scholarship, 90% match rate, 96% licensure rate, higher cost of living, higher tuition (37k per year for 5 years)

Wondering about the reputation of each within the field. Would it be appropriate to inquire about potential scholarship in pursuing Yeshiva? For those who are familiar with Widener's program, are there instances in which students are placed in rural parts of PA for guaranteed internships?
Any thoughts/opinions are welcome - the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Thank you!
 

psych.meout

2+ Year Member
Oct 5, 2015
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Hello, in need of help deciding which PsyD program to attend. I am interested in the child and clinical concentration.

Widener: offered scholarship for the first 3 years, 100% match rate (integrated - limited to PA), 87% licensure rate, tuition 34k per year for 5 years
Yeshiva (Ferkauf): did not offer scholarship, 90% match rate, 96% licensure rate, higher cost of living, higher tuition (37k per year for 5 years)

Wondering about the reputation of each within the field. Would it be appropriate to inquire about potential scholarship in pursuing Yeshiva? For those who are familiar with Widener's program, are there instances in which students are placed in rural parts of PA for guaranteed internships?
Any thoughts/opinions are welcome - the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Thank you!
What do you mean by "scholarships?" Are these full funding packages, just full/partial tuition waivers, etc.
 
Jan 23, 2018
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Widener: offered scholarship for the first 3 years, 100% match rate (integrated - limited to PA), 87% licensure rate, tuition 34k per year for 5 years
What do you mean by "integrated - limited to PA?" A program should make you license-eligible throughout the country.

Edit: It appears they have a captive 2-year 3x a week internship (which sounds more like a regular practicum?), hence the 100% match rate. I suppose you could look into the possibility of internships through APPIC if you were interested. However, you would need to make sure you're competitive. Also, the scholarship appears to be for 1/3 of the tuition for 3 years, so not full tuition. I wasn't able to find an actual curriculum, just a listing of random certificates. The EPPP pass rates are about the same if you're looking at the Yeshiva Clinical; the combined track is lower.

I've heard ok things about both programs. They're both expensive. I would guess your research match and living preference (rural vs city) would be factors to take into consideration. I don't know if 1 necessarily has a significantly better reputation than the other, but I'm also a student. Others who are in the field may have a better assessment of reputation.
 
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Feb 8, 2019
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What do you mean by "integrated - limited to PA?" A program should make you license-eligible throughout the country.

Edit: It appears they have a captive 2-year 3x a week internship (which sounds more like a regular practicum?), hence the 100% match rate. I suppose you could look into the possibility of internships through APPIC if you were interested. However, you would need to make sure you're competitive. Also, the scholarship appears to be for 1/3 of the tuition for 3 years, so not full tuition. I wasn't able to find an actual curriculum, just a listing of random certificates. The EPPP pass rates are about the same if you're looking at the Yeshiva Clinical; the combined track is lower.

I've heard ok things about both programs. They're both expensive. I would guess your research match and living preference (rural vs city) would be factors to take into consideration. I don't know if 1 necessarily has a significantly better reputation than the other, but I'm also a student. Others who are in the field may have a better assessment of reputation.
The match rate is 100% because the program guarantees an APA-accredited internship, which is regionally limited to Pennsylvania. It is one of their strong selling points and I'm wondering if there are any limitations that I might be missing or don't know about.
Thank you for your feedback.
 
Jan 23, 2018
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Right, that's a captive internship. The reason that APA internship match rate is a good barometer of a program's success is because it shows how competitive the students are across the country for internship positions. When the school has it's own captive internship, the students don't really participate in the match, so match rate isn't an evaluative metric anymore. Therefore, it's harder to find out if the students from Widener are competitive when stacked against students from other programs since they don't have to compete with them.
 
Feb 8, 2019
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Then what's the overall cost of attendance (e.g., tuition, fees, books) after the scholarship? What is the realistic cost of living there?
~32-33K per year --> 160-165K total
Philadelphia would be more realistic in terms of cost of living

If I were to attend Yeshiva, I will fortunately be living with a relative in Manhattan.
~38-39K per year --> 190-195K total

If anyone has additional considerations beside cost, please let me know. Thank you.
 

psych.meout

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~32-33K per year --> 160-165K total
Philadelphia would be more realistic in terms of cost of living

If I were to attend Yeshiva, I will fortunately be living with a relative in Manhattan.
~38-39K per year --> 190-195K total

If anyone has additional considerations beside cost, please let me know. Thank you.
Those costs should really make it a no-go for either program. That debt is huge on its own, but factoring in compound interest is going to make it substantially worse. On top of that, the typical earnings for psychologists aren't commensurate with that level of debt, as opposed to, say, physicians. I wouldn't count on PSLF being there to alleviate that debt, especially in this political climate.

Beyond finances, as has already been noted, captive internships really aren't a good thing. I wouldn't consider it to be a "strong selling point" that a program had to set up a captive internship because they were having difficulty training their students to be competitive for internship. It's there way of compensating for and covering up deficiencies in their program. Instead of rectifying whatever programmatic problems they have and thereby increasing their internship numbers that way, they are taking the wrong path and just setting up an internship site that can't reject their students or accept more competitive applicants from other programs.

Furthermore, captive internships also limit what training opportunities you can receive. Internships aren't just about checking a box to get your degree and license. They are supposed to provide you with more advanced training beyond what you received in your grad program. A captive internship site can't possibly provide every possible type of training, which means that programs which rely on captive sites are limiting their training.
 
Feb 8, 2019
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Right, that's a captive internship. The reason that APA internship match rate is a good barometer of a program's success is because it shows how competitive the students are across the country for internship positions. When the school has it's own captive internship, the students don't really participate in the match, so match rate isn't an evaluative metric anymore. Therefore, it's harder to find out if the students from Widener are competitive when stacked against students from other programs since they don't have to compete with them.
Ah I understand, thank you!
 
Feb 8, 2019
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Those costs should really make it a no-go for either program. That debt is huge on its own, but factoring in compound interest is going to make it substantially worse. On top of that, the typical earnings for psychologists aren't commensurate with that level of debt, as opposed to, say, physicians. I wouldn't count on PSLF being there to alleviate that debt, especially in this political climate.

Beyond finances, as has already been noted, captive internships really aren't a good thing. I wouldn't consider it to be a "strong selling point" that a program had to set up a captive internship because they were having difficulty training their students to be competitive for internship. It's there way of compensating for and covering up deficiencies in their program. Instead of rectifying whatever programmatic problems they have and thereby increasing their internship numbers that way, they are taking the wrong path and just setting up an internship site that can't reject their students or accept more competitive applicants from other programs.

Furthermore, captive internships also limit what training opportunities you can receive. Internships aren't just about checking a box to get your degree and license. They are supposed to provide you with more advanced training beyond what you received in your grad program. A captive internship site can't possibly provide every possible type of training, which means that programs which rely on captive sites are limiting their training.
Yes, the Psyd route is a hefty price to pay and I hear what you're saying about the quality and training of the internship.
Thank you.
 

psych.meout

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Yes, the Psyd route is a hefty price to pay and I hear what you're saying about the quality and training of the internship.
Thank you.
I'm not just saying that it's a "hefty price," I'm saying that it's not worth it. It doesn't really matter how much you'd love being a psychologist, that level of debt ruins your quality of life so much that it's not worth doing.
 
Jan 23, 2018
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Yes, the Psyd route is a hefty price to pay and I hear what you're saying about the quality and training of the internship.
Thank you.
There are a few PsyDs with better funding, but they are also as competitive as balanced PhDs, such as Baylor and Rutgers.
 
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Feb 14, 2019
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Hi, I need some help deciding between two clinical psychology PsyD programs! I got into Midwestern University-Glendale (Glendale, Arizona) and LaSalle University (Philadelphia, PA).

Midwestern-Glendale seems to have a poor reputation, although most of what I've read has been about the Downer's Grove location. 76% of their students complete it in three years (and then do their one year of internship), and they have a match rate of 88%. I know that attending a 3+1 program means sacrificing something in my education, so I would most likely take the optional 4th year. Their cohort size is about the same as the LaSalle, and their licensure rate is 85% (LaSalle's is 93%). The rate of attrition at both schools is 0.

If I chose Midwestern-Glendale, I would be close to family, friends, and all of my hobbies/lifestyle choices that I enjoy (very into the outdoors). The school has a poor reputation that seems to be improving. I got a better feel from the campus, and their students seemed happier.
If I chose LaSalle, the education would be better, but I'd be living in a place that I dislike. I wouldn't have much access to the things I enjoy, and I really don't like living in a big city like Philadelphia. I'm confident in my ability to make friends and meet people, so proximity to family and friends is just a perk of Midwestern, not a deciding factor.

I can't decide how much weight to put on quality of life vs quality of education. With an APA match rate of 88%, how crappy can Midwestern really be? I know I'd be a lot happier there than at LaSalle, but I don't want to jeopardize my future with this choice. Just a note, the financial aspects of both programs are equivalent for my situation, so that does not play a factor.
 
Feb 4, 2019
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Hi, I need some help deciding between two clinical psychology PsyD programs! I got into Midwestern University-Glendale (Glendale, Arizona) and LaSalle University (Philadelphia, PA).

Midwestern-Glendale seems to have a poor reputation, although most of what I've read has been about the Downer's Grove location. 76% of their students complete it in three years (and then do their one year of internship), and they have a match rate of 88%. I know that attending a 3+1 program means sacrificing something in my education, so I would most likely take the optional 4th year. Their cohort size is about the same as the LaSalle, and their licensure rate is 85% (LaSalle's is 93%). The rate of attrition at both schools is 0.

If I chose Midwestern-Glendale, I would be close to family, friends, and all of my hobbies/lifestyle choices that I enjoy (very into the outdoors). The school has a poor reputation that seems to be improving. I got a better feel from the campus, and their students seemed happier.
If I chose LaSalle, the education would be better, but I'd be living in a place that I dislike. I wouldn't have much access to the things I enjoy, and I really don't like living in a big city like Philadelphia. I'm confident in my ability to make friends and meet people, so proximity to family and friends is just a perk of Midwestern, not a deciding factor.

I can't decide how much weight to put on quality of life vs quality of education. With an APA match rate of 88%, how crappy can Midwestern really be? I know I'd be a lot happier there than at LaSalle, but I don't want to jeopardize my future with this choice. Just a note, the financial aspects of both programs are equivalent for my situation, so that does not play a factor.
Congrats on getting accepted into both programs! I'm from Philly, and I took classes at LaSalle so I wanted to weigh in. If you visited LaSalle, I'm sure you saw that it is not in a very safe neighborhood. The campus itself is safe but I doubt you would be living on-campus. I personally chose not to pursue further education there because, like you, I enjoy the outdoors. However, I live in Philly (another not-so-safe area) so I wanted a change of scenery for undergrad. Maybe you don't think you would like living in a big city because you haven't yet? Maybe this is one of those situations where you could step out of your comfort zone and expose yourself to something totally different. You might hate it, like you thought you would, but you will have exposure to totally different experiences if you live and work in Philly. Having experience in urban areas and with underserved populations is great experience to have as well. However, it is 4-5 years of your life and that is a long time to hate the place you live. You know yourself best, so I would do some reflecting and trust your gut on this. But, if you do come to Philly, I would be happy to be your first new friend! Good luck with everything :)
 
Mar 17, 2019
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Hello everyone.
I got an offer from LIU Post (PsyD) with some tuition remission (18k). I really liked the program and the advisor I would be working with. Unfortunately, the tuition happens to be high and the remission I was offered seems to be the most they could offer.
The tuition at LIU is 50k/a year, plus I would have moving costs, rent and most likely buying a car.
89% of students obtained an APA-accredited internship in 2016-17, 88% in 2015-16, 80% in 2014-15.
84% obtained licensure.

This was my second year applying and I got 5 interviews and 3 offers total, but LIU is the best fit. My other two programs are almost as expensive, even with the funding being offered, so I'm basically deciding between trying to find a job and going to LIU.

If anyone has any thoughts about the program, I would love to hear from you.
 

Justanothergrad

Counseling Psychologist
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Mar 2, 2013
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Hello everyone.
I got an offer from LIU Post (PsyD) with some tuition remission (18k). I really liked the program and the advisor I would be working with. Unfortunately, the tuition happens to be high and the remission I was offered seems to be the most they could offer.
The tuition at LIU is 50k/a year, plus I would have moving costs, rent and most likely buying a car.
89% of students obtained an APA-accredited internship in 2016-17, 88% in 2015-16, 80% in 2014-15.
84% obtained licensure.

This was my second year applying and I got 5 interviews and 3 offers total, but LIU is the best fit. My other two programs are almost as expensive, even with the funding being offered, so I'm basically deciding between trying to find a job and going to LIU.

If anyone has any thoughts about the program, I would love to hear from you.
With an average completion of 5-6 years and tuition due of 32k a year after your remission (160k total), you are looking at well over 250k in debt after car/rent/food/insurance/gas/moving/internship/school materials/etc. You would be paying on that for 10-15 years best case, and which will severely limit any earning you may have (I encourage you to look at the current loan repayment estimates and starting salaries). Even if you happen to have 250k sitting in the bank, there are a lot of better ways to utilize the money with better long term outcomes (volunteer to work for a lab full time at a funded doctoral program and eat all costs to live in the area for a year). I would not take that option in either case.

What sorts of programs did you apply to, where were they located geographically, what was your GRE, what sort of research background do you have, what is your area of interest, etc.
 
Mar 27, 2019
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Recently I've applied to various clinical psychology programs and am currently deciding out of the programs I've been accepted to. I only applied to clinical psych PsyD and MA programs. In the future I primarily want to work as a clinician (probably in private practice or a clinic) and work with adults and adolescents struggling with anxiety, depression, & eating disorders primarily. I would like to be able to provide therapy and give assessments. I also like the idea of having the flexibility to do other things like teaching later on. I feel that a doctorate-level psych degree provides the most career flexibility, however I've heard if I just want to stick with providing therapy that becoming a MA-level clinician (like an MFT or LPCC) is a better route to take (for saving time/money/ending up with a similar salary as a psychologist). If it makes any difference, I would like to work in CA or possibly another west coast state in the future.

The following are the current programs I'm deciding between:
-Midwestern University (PsyD)
-Azusa Pacific University (PsyD)
-Xavier University (PsyD - currently on the waitlist)
-two local MA programs (one would prepare me to later apply to PhD programs; the other would prepare me to do that AND would give me the training to be able to apply for MFT/LPCC licensure following completion of the program)

I'm currently leaning towards doing the MA program that would prepare me for licensure, since it's the most flexible option and I could still apply to funded PhD/PsyD programs if I wanted the extra training in assessment post-graduation. Also, the pricing of the PsyD programs is a concern for me, and I don't want to be paying off school debt for several years. The MA program I'm leaning towards is very affordable.. I guess my main question is: What option do you think would be best for me to pursue considering my career interests? Also, if you have any knowledge about the programs I mentioned, I would love to hear about it.
Thanks in advance!
 

futureapppsy2

Assistant professor
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Recently I've applied to various clinical psychology programs and am currently deciding out of the programs I've been accepted to. I only applied to clinical psych PsyD and MA programs. In the future I primarily want to work as a clinician (probably in private practice or a clinic) and work with adults and adolescents struggling with anxiety, depression, & eating disorders primarily. I would like to be able to provide therapy and give assessments. I also like the idea of having the flexibility to do other things like teaching later on. I feel that a doctorate-level psych degree provides the most career flexibility, however I've heard if I just want to stick with providing therapy that becoming a MA-level clinician (like an MFT or LPCC) is a better route to take (for saving time/money/ending up with a similar salary as a psychologist). If it makes any difference, I would like to work in CA or possibly another west coast state in the future.

The following are the current programs I'm deciding between:
-Midwestern University (PsyD)
-Azusa Pacific University (PsyD)
-Xavier University (PsyD - currently on the waitlist)
-two local MA programs (one would prepare me to later apply to PhD programs; the other would prepare me to do that AND would give me the training to be able to apply for MFT/LPCC licensure following completion of the program)

I'm currently leaning towards doing the MA program that would prepare me for licensure, since it's the most flexible option and I could still apply to funded PhD/PsyD programs if I wanted the extra training in assessment post-graduation. Also, the pricing of the PsyD programs is a concern for me, and I don't want to be paying off school debt for several years. The MA program I'm leaning towards is very affordable.. I guess my main question is: What option do you think would be best for me to pursue considering my career interests? Also, if you have any knowledge about the programs I mentioned, I would love to hear about it.
Thanks in advance!
Honestly, choose one of the masters programs.
 
Nov 25, 2017
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Psychology Student
Hello everyone.
I got an offer from LIU Post (PsyD) with some tuition remission (18k). I really liked the program and the advisor I would be working with. Unfortunately, the tuition happens to be high and the remission I was offered seems to be the most they could offer.
The tuition at LIU is 50k/a year, plus I would have moving costs, rent and most likely buying a car.
89% of students obtained an APA-accredited internship in 2016-17, 88% in 2015-16, 80% in 2014-15.
84% obtained licensure.

This was my second year applying and I got 5 interviews and 3 offers total, but LIU is the best fit. My other two programs are almost as expensive, even with the funding being offered, so I'm basically deciding between trying to find a job and going to LIU.

If anyone has any thoughts about the program, I would love to hear from you.
Hi there, I also got an offer from LIU and intend to accept it, so maybe we will be classmates!
After spending some time on this forum, I realized that some people give advice without doing proper research. Sure, LIU's tuition for the first to third year is 50k/year. However, they only charge 10k for the fourth year and you'll get paid for the fifth year internship. That being said, the tuition will cost around 100K, and perhaps you'll have additional opportunities to make money. Does that sound a lot better than 250K debt?
Also, don't forget that people in NY areas tend to have an above average income. Though you still have to spend years repaying the debt, it won't be as long as 10 years
 
Dec 25, 2017
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Hi there, I also got an offer from LIU and intend to accept it, so maybe we will be classmates!
After spending some time on this forum, I realized that some people give advice without doing proper research. Sure, LIU's tuition for the first to third year is 50k/year. However, they only charge 10k for the fourth year and you'll get paid for the fifth year internship. That being said, the tuition will cost around 100K, and perhaps you'll have additional opportunities to make money. Does that sound a lot better than 250K debt?
Also, don't forget that people in NY areas tend to have an above average income. Though you still have to spend years repaying the debt, it won't be as long as 10 years
Every school has high tuition for the first ~3 years and then cheap/no tuition in the last year or two because you're taking fewer classes. This is not exclusive to LIU.

The difference is funded programs offer full tuition remission and LIU doesn't.

Also it's fairly misleading to mention NYC income without mentioning the high cost of living. 150k after cost of living (even with the partial tuition remission mentioned) is a conservative estimate.

Would be very interested to see where you're getting 100k as an estimate.
 

futureapppsy2

Assistant professor
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Every school has high tuition for the first ~3 years and then cheap/no tuition in the last year or two because you're taking fewer classes. This is not exclusive to LIU.

The difference is funded programs offer full tuition remission and LIU doesn't.

Also it's fairly misleading to mention NYC income without mentioning the high cost of living. 150k after cost of living (even with the partial tuition remission mentioned) is a conservative estimate.

Would be very interested to see where you're getting 100k as an estimate.
Also, note that internship applications and the associated travel can cost a fair chunk of change.
 

psych.meout

2+ Year Member
Oct 5, 2015
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Hi there, I also got an offer from LIU and intend to accept it, so maybe we will be classmates!
After spending some time on this forum, I realized that some people give advice without doing proper research. Sure, LIU's tuition for the first to third year is 50k/year. However, they only charge 10k for the fourth year and you'll get paid for the fifth year internship. That being said, the tuition will cost around 100K, and perhaps you'll have additional opportunities to make money. Does that sound a lot better than 250K debt?
Also, don't forget that people in NY areas tend to have an above average income. Though you still have to spend years repaying the debt, it won't be as long as 10 years
Isn't 50k * 3 = 150k, not 100k?
Also, note that internship applications and the associated travel can cost a fair chunk of change.
Not to mention moving for internship, if you match outside of NYC (geographic restrictions being one of the primary reasons students don't match for internship, even at high quality funded programs).

Then, there's conference travel, though I'm not sure how much research experience students get in this program, which is somewhat of a concern.

Hi there, I also got an offer from LIU and intend to accept it, so maybe we will be classmates!
After spending some time on this forum, I realized that some people give advice without doing proper research. Sure, LIU's tuition for the first to third year is 50k/year. However, they only charge 10k for the fourth year and you'll get paid for the fifth year internship. That being said, the tuition will cost around 100K, and perhaps you'll have additional opportunities to make money. Does that sound a lot better than 250K debt?
Also, don't forget that people in NY areas tend to have an above average income. Though you still have to spend years repaying the debt, it won't be as long as 10 years
You're grossly underestimating the costs of the program and living in NYC, as well as overestimating how much you'll earn and how quickly you'll be able to pay off your debt.

It's probably not a great idea to insinuate that other people haven't done research, when you either haven't done it yourself or you've been selective about it to affirm that you made the correct decision by accepting admission to this program.
 
Nov 25, 2017
13
2
1
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Psychology Student
Isn't 50k * 3 = 150k, not 100k?

Not to mention moving for internship, if you match outside of NYC (geographic restrictions being one of the primary reasons students don't match for internship, even at high quality funded programs).

Then, there's conference travel, though I'm not sure how much research experience students get in this program, which is somewhat of a concern.


You're grossly underestimating the costs of the program and living in NYC, as well as overestimating how much you'll earn and how quickly you'll be able to pay off your debt.

It's probably not a great idea to insinuate that other people haven't done research, when you either haven't done it yourself or you've been selective about it to affirm that you made the correct decision by accepting admission to this program.
Hi, I am specifically referring to one reply that says "With an average completion of 5-6 years and tuition due of 32k a year after your remission (160k total)." Clearly, this person never bothered to take a look at the page of LIU nor thought of the possibility that some programs only charge high tuition fees for the first three years. It's not an insinuation.
And I didn't include the living cost. I should've indicated that, my mistake.
 
Nov 25, 2017
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Every school has high tuition for the first ~3 years and then cheap/no tuition in the last year or two because you're taking fewer classes. This is not exclusive to LIU.

The difference is funded programs offer full tuition remission and LIU doesn't.

Also it's fairly misleading to mention NYC income without mentioning the high cost of living. 150k after cost of living (even with the partial tuition remission mentioned) is a conservative estimate.

Would be very interested to see where you're getting 100k as an estimate.
Hi, I wouldn't say that every school has a cheap/no tuition fee in the last or two years because some have a flat rate for four or five years.
And since enthusiast91 chose PsyD and mentioned that it was his/her second year applying, I don't think he/she doesn't know that most PsyD programs are only partially or not funded. It would be inappropriate to compare the one at LIU with fully funded programs, which mostly are PhDs.
I believe my original post says "the tuition will cost around 100K (after remission)" instead of "the total cost is 100K".
 

psych.meout

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Hi, I am specifically referring to one reply that says "With an average completion of 5-6 years and tuition due of 32k a year after your remission (160k total)." Clearly, this person never bothered to take a look at the page of LIU nor thought of the possibility that some programs only charge high tuition fees for the first three years. It's not an insinuation.
And I didn't include the living cost. I should've indicated that, my mistake.
It's one detail, not the totality of Justanothergrad's argument. Again, I'd be careful about insinuating things about other posters here, as some of them are not only psychologists, but also faculty in clinical or counseling doctoral programs (Justanothergrad included).

Hi, I wouldn't say that every school has a cheap/no tuition fee in the last or two years because some have a flat rate for four or five years.
And since enthusiast91 chose PsyD and mentioned that it was his/her second year applying, I don't think he/she doesn't know that most PsyD programs are only partially or not funded. It would be inappropriate to compare the one at LIU with fully funded programs, which mostly are PhDs.
I believe my original post says "the tuition will cost around 100K (after remission)" instead of "the total cost is 100K".
Why is it "inappropriate" to compare it to fully funded programs?

LIU's program is expensive and completely untenable from a financial perspective once you factor in costs of living, internship, and post doc, and the median remuneration for psychologists. $100,000 is the base rate for tuition, you also need to factor in accrued interest (which will be significant by the time you are eligible for licensure and can get an appropriate pay bump) and the loss of nearly a decade of contributions to retirement and savings, and that's without factoring in other costs (e.g., cost of living, conference travel, fees, books, internship interviews, post doc interviews).

Also, nearly 12% of their students aren't licensed. What are these students doing since they are a practitioner scholar program? Why does their admissions and outcomes page have to hedge this licensure rate by comparing it to other doctoral programs in NYC area?
 
Mar 27, 2019
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Honestly, choose one of the masters programs.
Thanks. As of right now, I'm almost positive I'm going with one of the MA programs.

Also, out of curiosity, I was wondering if very many MA students apply to PhD programs and opt to leave part-way through the MA program?
 
Apr 3, 2019
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TRYING TO DECIDE BETWEEN WIDENER AND William Paterson OR Kean.

Widener sits as my top choice primarily because of the PsyD/MBA dual degree opportunity. It also helps that I can pursue a school certification that shouldn't be too hard to transfer back over into NJ. My only concern, which also is one of the pros of Widener, is that it has a captive internship. Does anyone have experience or knowledge of how captive internships are viewed post grad or when applying for residency?

William Paterson and Kean are both much more affordable options. Both William Paterson and Kean have opportunities for me to teach as adjunct and earn a stipend that will help with tuition (though academics its not something I'm considering to pursue later in my career). They are much smaller programs and more research based. Research was not something I was looking forward to during the application process, but I made good connections with the faculty during my interviews so now am much more receptive to the challenge. Most faculty seems to be from a PhD background. William Paterson is accredited on contingency (they just had their first class go through the internship match) and Kean is relatively recently accredited as well. I am left feeling more confident about the clinical training I would get at Widener.

Im coming into the PsyD with undergrad debt and debt from my M.A in forensic psych.

Do recent grads recommend I take on the additional debt and pursue these specializations at Widener (despite the captive internship) or will these more affordable programs still make me competitive?

(btw, I'm planning on declining offers from Adler, Wright Institute, William James, and Carlow)
 
Dec 5, 2017
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TRYING TO DECIDE BETWEEN WIDENER AND William Paterson OR Kean.

Widener sits as my top choice primarily because of the PsyD/MBA dual degree opportunity. It also helps that I can pursue a school certification that shouldn't be too hard to transfer back over into NJ. My only concern, which also is one of the pros of Widener, is that it has a captive internship. Does anyone have experience or knowledge of how captive internships are viewed post grad or when applying for residency?

William Paterson and Kean are both much more affordable options. Both William Paterson and Kean have opportunities for me to teach as adjunct and earn a stipend that will help with tuition (though academics its not something I'm considering to pursue later in my career). They are much smaller programs and more research based. Research was not something I was looking forward to during the application process, but I made good connections with the faculty during my interviews so now am much more receptive to the challenge. Most faculty seems to be from a PhD background. William Paterson is accredited on contingency (they just had their first class go through the internship match) and Kean is relatively recently accredited as well. I am left feeling more confident about the clinical training I would get at Widener.

Im coming into the PsyD with undergrad debt and debt from my M.A in forensic psych.

Do recent grads recommend I take on the additional debt and pursue these specializations at Widener (despite the captive internship) or will these more affordable programs still make me competitive?

(btw, I'm planning on declining offers from Adler, Wright Institute, William James, and Carlow)
I wouldn't consider Widener based on cost alone. I don't know much about WPU's program, but the only information I've gotten was negative, to say the least. I think Kean would be the best option out of these. I know several competent practitioners who have gone through Kean's program.
 
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Mar 17, 2019
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Isn't 50k * 3 = 150k, not 100k?

Not to mention moving for internship, if you match outside of NYC (geographic restrictions being one of the primary reasons students don't match for internship, even at high quality funded programs).

Then, there's conference travel, though I'm not sure how much research experience students get in this program, which is somewhat of a concern.


You're grossly underestimating the costs of the program and living in NYC, as well as overestimating how much you'll earn and how quickly you'll be able to pay off your debt.

It's probably not a great idea to insinuate that other people haven't done research, when you either haven't done it yourself or you've been selective about it to affirm that you made the correct decision by accepting admission to this program.
I appreciate everyone's input.
It is definitely a lot to consider and I think if I were to reapply, I would only consider fully funded programs.

I think Lostinsunshine is right that it would be around 150k plus other costs (car/living/transportation for externships/etc). We must also factor in that internships also don't pay well. All of this is very worrying.
To someone who asked which programs I applied to— I applied to a mix of PsyDs and PhDs. I got 4 interviews, 3 doctoral offers. All three are programs that you have to pay for. LIU is the best fit of the three and there isn't that much of a difference in the price tag.
 

psych.meout

2+ Year Member
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I appreciate everyone's input.
It is definitely a lot to consider and I think if I were to reapply, I would only consider fully funded programs.

I think Lostinsunshine is right that it would be around 150k plus other costs (car/living/transportation for externships/etc). We must also factor in that internships also don't pay well. All of this is very worrying.
To someone who asked which programs I applied to— I applied to a mix of PsyDs and PhDs. I got 4 interviews, 3 doctoral offers. All three are programs that you have to pay for. LIU is the best fit of the three and there isn't that much of a difference in the price tag.
It's just not worth the massive cost. You'll do yourself a massive favor by just reapplying to funded programs.
 
Apr 3, 2019
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I wouldn't consider Widener based on cost alone. I don't know much about WPU's program, but the only information I've gotten was negative, to say the least. I think Kean would be the best option out of these. I know several competent practitioners who have gone through Kean's program.
I'm curious what you heard about WPU's program? I'm coming in with a M.A so I have the opportunity to join as adjunct faculty soon and get some tuition remission and pay, with the already cheap tuition its a hard offer to refuse.