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"Help me decide" mega thread

Discussion in 'Psychology [Psy.D. / Ph.D.]' started by IcedBennu, Mar 23, 2012.

  1. Psy3383

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    Personally, I think if you're considering clinical psychology at the doctoral level you should not limit yourself to just Psy.D programs. A proper Psy.D program should emphasize a balance between clinical and research training, just as a Ph.D does. What a lot of the more senior members on this board are trying to get at is the return on investment of a degree. With what psychology salaries look like, it's not ideal to go to extreme debt like people do in MD programs. You're right though in that fully-funded programs are extremely competitive. However, from what I've been told, it's generally feasible to get there if you take an extra 2-years to work full-time in a lab and showcase some research productivity. A two year time investment to avoid decades worth of debt repayment is not a bad trade-off. FIT can provide you with the opportunities to be a strong psychologist, and we do have above-average funding opportunities for a PsyD program. Psych.meout and myself are both just trying to make sure you understand the long-term consequences of debt, and some of the other costs associated with grad school that are not as obvious.
     
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  3. Expms22

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    Hey everyone,

    I need help deciding between Adler University, The Wright Institute, and Pacific University (Oregon). I am just having a hard time making a decision here. Thanks in advance!!
     
  4. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist
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    What are their respective APA-accredited match rates and debt loads?
     
  5. Expms22

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    Adler is 88%, Wright is 76%, and Pacfic was 65%.

    After its all said and done, Adler would be the most expensive at 165,000 and both the wright and pacific will be about 20,000-30,000 less
     
  6. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist
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    Those debt numbers seem a little off. For example, Adler has tuition set at 50k/year for tuition alone. Do they have assistantships/fellowships guaranteed? Also, need to factor in living expenses. All three will put you about 3-5 times the max debt I would recommend for this career. But, if you're deadest on these programs despite the crushing debt, here we go. At least for my emphasis area, Adler and Wright have terrible reputations. I will not take interns/postdocs from there. Pacific has a better reputation, but lately they seem to be trending downward. I will consider taking interns/postdocs from there, but they usually have to be an outlier in their program (i.e., going well above and beyond the usual course of things). Take that for what you will and keep an eye on what congress and the president do to loan repayment programs.
     
  7. qwerty729

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    Thank you for your response. I understand where you're coming from, but I didn't want to risk waiting 2 more years in a lab without certainty of getting accepted to a PhD fully-funded program in clinical psych while I could just start a PsyD program and get onto my career, quicker. I was fortunate enough to attend an UG university that had PhD programs as well as PsyD in clinical psych. During my time as an UG student, I worked as an RA in many graduate labs and did not enjoy it. Additionally, one thing the PhD students in clinical psych made sure to emphasize was that if you don't want to end up working in academia/ research environments- don't pursue the PhD. I've seen the amount of time these students spent, between conducting their own research, meeting publishing deadlines, working in their labs, studying for classes, and attending practica- they had to work significantly harder than the PsyD students just to make sure they are keeping up with research demands beyond learning the clinical aspects of the field.

    I don't see it as a wise decision to pursue the PhD track if my goals are definitely not to enter academia. Yes, I will probably feel the **** end of this decision once I graduate and have to start making monthly loan payments but at that point, I will have completed my graduate degree, after going through 5 yrs of a program I actually wanted to attend, and can start working in the capacity I want to work in, I'm aware I still have to do research in PsyD program but in comparison to the amount of research a typically, fully-funded PhD program requires- it is fundamentally different.

    Also, it's kinda just the nature of the beast. For the training/ experience, I want to get in gradaute school, the PsyD program best meets my goals. Unfortunately, these programs are genrally not funded. Ive accepted that bc I want to work in this field as a psycholgoist and the alternate option is not one I want to pursue based off of previous knowledge and observation of those who pursued that path.
     
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  8. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist
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    This is simply untrue in many of the balanced PhD programs, of which there are many. This is simply misinformation.
     
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  9. psych.meout

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    This is why one of the most important lesson you learn even in undergrad is that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data." Maybe these things are true for the particular students you spoke to at this particular university, but it just really isn't true in general. Even for PhD programs with clinical science orientations, a significant portion, if not most, students are going to have careers with some kind of clinical focus. There are just not enough TT faculty and pure research positions for even just the clinical science students, let alone all PhD students. In general, most grads of PhD programs end up doing clinical work somewhere, whether it's an AMC, VAMC, state hospital, private practice, etc. The stats are out there if you look for them.

    As far as the disparity in research focus between PsyD and PhD programs goes, I don't think you really understand the purpose of doing research. It's not just meant to train people to be TT faculty or researchers, nor is it just some kind annoying, obtuse APA requirement to slog through. A key goal of it is to train you to be a good consumer of research for use in clinical practice. This is not to say that no PsyD programs provide this training, but rather that if you're looking for a doctoral program to get you out of as much research as possible, then you're kind of missing the point of grad school.
     
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  10. wtfook

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    As others have said, PhD programs are varied just like PsyD programs are varied. There are many PhD programs (at least partially funded) that are balanced or more clinically focused. It's unclear to me how you can be so absolutely sure that all PhD programs only train researchers and academics when you yourself have not actually attended a doctoral program yet, only spoke with doctoral students at your institution, and (as it seems) did not actually research what PhD programs had to offer. I could be wrong. Your other responses did not make the last point particularly clear so excuse me if I assumed wrong. Rather than potentially looking into fully funded PhD programs to see if there are ones that are more balanced or clinically focused, you decided to simply to choose the expensive route, despite knowing that you will regret it later. You assumed, before researching, that you would hate 5 years at a PhD and love 5 years at a PsyD.

    I think what everyone has been trying to emphasize is not eliminating an entire host of choices simply off the observations and assertions of people at a single institution when there are scores of APA accredited programs of the PhD variety to check out. It seems like you're still pretty young. Why limit the happiness you can have in the future by accepting a ton of debt now, when there are lots of options for you to NOT do that?
     
  11. BrookeS17

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    I am also seeking advice about which master program to attend in order to be more prepared for a PhD program. I have a choice between an MA in Forensic Psychology from Fairleigh Dickinson University and an MA in Clinical Psychology with a focus in Forensics from Montclair State University. I ultimately am seeking a PhD in Clinical Psychology with an emphasis in Forensics. My dilemma is this: you don't technically need a masters in order to attend the PhD program, however I am set on attending one of the two programs mentioned above. There is significant overlap in class requirements between the clinical Masters program and the clinical PhD program, however, most PhD programs will only accept 12 transfer credit hours. I do not want to complete 2 years of schooling just to repeat some of the same courses in my doctoral study. In addition, the clinical psychology masters program from Montclair does not culminate in licensure. So should I attend the program that will count some classes towards my doctoral degree, or should I complete the program that will provide me with a deeper knowledge in the forensic aspect before completing the clinical part? Any advice would be appreciated
     
  12. Therapist4Chnge

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    Unless your GPA is low or you need a masters to apply to your top PhD program, skip masters training and go work/volunteer in a research lab.

    Forensic psych is a doctoral sub-speciality, and the guts of it is built upon general doctoral training. Most/All of those “speciality” training programs exist to generate revenue. They aren't licensable and couple cost $30k+, so there is little upside. They cover the basics, but that’s putting the cart before the horse.
     
  13. logicpsych2012

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    Hey I actually go to Montclair State (I'm an undergrad, but I work with a lot of professors (especially forensics) and have intimate knowledge of the masters program) if you wanna PM me for any information
     
  14. qwerty729

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    Please produce examples of "balanced PhD programs."
     
  15. qwerty729

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    When you mention "careers with some kind of clinical focus" I'm assuming you're equating that to what I want to do. In order to practice as a psychologist in many states, you need to become licensed. So on my journey to choosing grad schools, I looked at Licensure % from Student outcome data. In my search, I looked for Phd in clinical psych and Psyd programs within my ability to attend, the psyd programs presented with higher rates. If a school has a licenure % on the lower end, I assume either the prof/classes are not preparing the students well enough to pass the EPPP or the students graduating are not intereted in practicing ergo- they don't get licensed and pursue a non-clinically related field in psych.

    No, I'm not "looking for a doctoral program to get out of research," I'm looking for a doctoral program that I had the likelihood of getting accepted to.
     
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  16. qwerty729

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    Its unclear to me how you can be so absolutely sure what kind of research, I conducted, prior to choosing graduate schools based off of a few posts in an anonymous forum. You are wrong in your assumptions. I didn't think it was necessary to delve into the exact research process which lead me down this path. I did check Ph.D. programs (Student Outcome data, researching the programs itself, emailing prof in the programs, attending open houses, speaking to current students in OTHER institutions, to name a few) and choose to pursue Psyd instead.
    I was looking for certainty in getting accepted into a program, among other things. I am not young and I'd like to start my career sooner rather than later.
    Is it that difficult to accept, someone wants to pursue a PsyD track, knowing the costs associated, instead of a PhD track? Perhaps, there is hesitation bc some of you might have gotten your training from "older generations" and do not respect PsyD degrees in the clinical field? Just a thought...
     
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  17. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist
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    Just from ones I have personal experience with? MSU, UWM, UH, MU, UW. Ask around, you'll get dozens more. These are also fully funded. As far as my own program, 100% accredited internship match rate, 95% licensure rate. These places are all over the place, and very widespread geographically.
     
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  18. logicpsych2012

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    Would also mention UTSW. Just gotta do some digging
     
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  19. psych.meout

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    The scientist-practitioner model exists for this very reason. Have you heard of this term before?

    Buy Norcross' book or Google "Scientist-Practitioner clinical psychology PhD."

    What's the "lower end" of licensure?

    You may not be interpreting these figures correctly. You can't necessarily just compare the absolute rates between PsyD and PhD programs 1-to-1. You have to consider what the missions and orientations of these programs are. PhD programs are simultaneously training their students as clinicians, consultants, teachers, clinical supervisors, researchers, research mentors, etc. Conversely, most (though not all) PsyD programs are strictly focused on training students for clinical roles, with other responsibilities being peripheral, at best. It's not the case that PhD programs are necessarily insufficiently preparing their students for the EPPP, licensure, or clinical practice, especially compared with PsyD programs. More accurately, PhD programs are preparing their students many different diverse roles, which graduates then choose based on their interests, goals, and priorities. Thus, you can't interpret lower EPPP and licensure rates as knocks against a given PhD program's clinical training. Conversely, you can potentially make this interpretation about PsyD programs on these metrics, because they are exactly the outcomes that these programs are supposedly training them for.

    Let's take a look at a couple of PhD programs to get a better idea.

    Here's University of Alabama-Birmingham, a fantastic, balanced, fully-funded PhD program:
    https://www.uab.edu/cas/psychology/images/PDF/DISCLOSUREINFO2017.pdf
    98% licensure

    Here's University of Illinois-Chicago, a program with very strong clinical training, but is also a PCSAS program which prizes research:
    Student Admissions, Outcomes, and other Data
    82% licensure

    Here's Indiana University-Bloomington, which is pretty much the archetypal PCSAS program. They explicitly discourage students from going into clinical practice and are very clear about training their students to be researchers, consultants, and TT faculty.
    http://www.indiana.edu/~clinscnc/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/2017-ARO-C-26-Student-Admissions2c-Outcomes2c-and-Other-Data.pdf
    40% licensure

    Yep, my program is 100% match and mid-80s licensure, because we're clinical science and some grads go TT or research-only and choose not to get licensed.
     
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  20. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist
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    Yes, in general for PhD programs, it will range from 70%+. It's a poor barometer of the balanced nature since the cohorts are small, and even 2 people in a cohort who decide to go onto an academic career with throw the numbers off quite a bit. It's a better indicator for PsyDs to an extent. If those people aren't getting licensed, it's usually because they can't find a job in the field, or have given up.
     
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  21. psych.meout

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    Yeah, I'm curious what PsyD grads who don't pass the EPPP and don't get licensed are doing.

    I'm not trying to pejorative or insulting, I just don't see what these people are doing with their degrees when *some* of these programs neglect training facets that aren't clinically-oriented.
     
  22. wtfook

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    I did qualify my statement with: "and (as it seems) did not actually research what PhD programs had to offer. I could be wrong. Your other responses did not make the last point particularly clear so excuse me if I assumed wrong."

    I based my observations on the entire paragraph you dedicated to your single sample explanation for why you did chose your PsyD. Some things you said that I found informative:

    "Thank you for your response. I understand where you're coming from, but I didn't want to risk waiting 2 more years in a lab without certainty of getting accepted to a PhD fully-funded program in clinical psych while I could just start a PsyD program and get onto my career, quicker." (2 more years does sound overwhelming. I suppose I would prefer to save 2 years down the line in loan payments, money I lose, by working an additional 2 years to get into a fully funded school. I'm 29 and in my first year of a doc program. I did this. For me it was absolutely worth it because I am going to be debt free.)

    "PhD students in clinical psych made sure to emphasize was that if you don't want to end up working in academia/ research environments- don't pursue the PhD." (single university sample, not informative of all programs)

    "I don't see it as a wise decision to pursue the PhD track if my goals are definitely not to enter academia. Yes, I will probably feel the **** end of this decision once I graduate and have to start making monthly loan payments" (This WILL suck. You don't necessarily have to deal with this in more balanced clinical programs)

    Many people have suggested fully funded balanced programs above. If you did research you did research. Your research didn't bring you to these programs. Or perhaps it did but there weren't faculty who fit your interests there. I don't know. You do you man. But the reason people on this forum so heavily emphasize people not ruling out PhD programs is related back to someone's comment about FIT earlier. That crushing debt feels worth it now but once you're 5 years out of school, you'll feel the crush and you might wish you had made a different decision. People are just trying to help people avoid that. I have had professors who went to reputable PsyD programs who have said similarly. They're in great careers, they're great clinicians, they were very well respected regardless of their degree, and they're doing well but they said, "if I could do it again, I would've gone somewhere with more funding." PhD or PsyD.
     
  23. psych.meout

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    If someone requests "Please produce examples of 'balanced PhD programs,'" I'm skeptical that they did much, if any, "research" about doctoral training in clinical psychology. It's not like the Boulder model is anything new or particularly complex, abstract, or opaque.
     
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  24. qwerty729

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    Yep, my program is 100% match and mid-80s licensure, because we're clinical science and some grads go TT or research-only and choose not to get licensed.[/QUOTE]

    Did you do PhD program?
     
  25. qwerty729

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    To be honest, I just wrote what I remembered first atm, if I knew people would analyze over my posts as they did, maybe I would have put more effort into it.
    Whether or not that ends up being true (you might wish you had made a different decision) what is it you or anyone here on this website? As psychologists, or even just people you need to learn when to let others decide things for themselves, even if its contrary to what you think is right for them, no?
     
  26. qwerty729

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    I wanted to see if they were the same schools I found, obnoxious dick.
     
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  27. psych.meout

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    Wow.
     
  28. wtfook

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    That was a lot...
     
  29. wtfook

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    Well unfortunately we can only really provide feedback on what we are given. It's a pattern on here that people question the financial decision of taking on an unfunded program (PsyD or PhD). Saying, "what is it to you?" seems counter to your original intention of asking for advice. Once you got your advice on your original question (which of these following PsyD's should I attend), you could have very easily stopped responding. However, your continued engagement with this topic possibly signaled (falsely) to others that you were looking for more advice. In addition, no one is saying you can't make whatever decision you are making. But as helping people, most people on this forum are interested in providing information. If you peruse the answers you've received, none have said at any point, "DO NOT ATTEND A PSYD." And honestly, no one will care if you do. But they do seem to care enough to tell you what other options may exist and how they may be similar to what you want, but with more funding. If that is not comfortable for you to hear, that's fine. Again, you do you man.

    I am in a PhD program. And I had friends who went to PsyD programs. When they were making decisions, we had the very same discussions many have on this forum about cost, loans, future regrets etc... Some chose funded PsyDs. Others chose unfunded because they felt the training was right for them and their parents would pay. I have certainly said in other posts I've made that if a person can pay and wont be wracked with debt, that's their decision to make and to go with the program with the best outcomes. Others have argued that the money could go toward other things and that has merit too. I understand your impulse to justify a life decision you're already pretty set on making. I've certainly done the same myself.

    My program is balanced, fully funded, and has a 100% match rate so I am very confident in my decision and currently don't regret it and doubt I ever will. At least not in the sense that I spent money on something I wont be able to pay back without serious cost to my well-being in the future. I also don't regret the additional 2 years I spent bettering my resume in order to get into such a program, even though it meant I started my PhD at 29 instead of 27. Others might feel differently and, again, that's fine.
     
  30. idilfranko

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    Hello everyone! Pleeeease help me decide between the following programs!!!

    I received an offer from the Rutgers GSAPP PsyD (General) program. I also received a fellowship for $12,000 which is associated with an 8-hour weekly professional activity. This means I will have to pay about $17,000 (since I am an out-of-state student) plus living expenses to go to Rutgers.
    I also received an offer from the St. John's University Clinical Psychology PhD program. I haven't received a fellowship but received a tuition-remission from this program. This means that it will be much cheaper to attend St. John's than Rutgers GSAPP.

    What do you guys think I should do? My priority is becoming a clinician, but I would also like to keep my options open for teaching and research. I think that Rutgers GSAPP has a better program and reputation than St. Johns, but is it worth paying that much? I am not really interested in any of the research that faculty at St John's is conducting, but I understand that it is not a very research-heavy program anyway. One other factor in my decision is the location of the school--Rutgers is in New Jersey, while St. John's is in Queens (which means I'll get to live in NYC if I go to St. John's). Anybody who goes to St. John's who can tell me more about the program?
    Thanks in advance!!
     
  31. psych.meout

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    NYC is one of the most expensive cities in the country and will definitely be significantly more expensive than New Brunswick, so don't underestimate the living expenses differential. Honestly, you'll be so busy and poor during grad school that living in NYC probably won't be as big of a benefit as you'd think.
     
  32. Psych11112

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    Here are a few things that may aid in your decision:

    *Rutgers objectively has a better reputation than St. John's and is ranked higher with better internship match rates
    *SJU funding is not guaranteed for all years. In fact, typically students have to pay in years 3 and 4 as well as summer
    *You likely will not be able to afford living in NYC on either stipend
    *Rutgers is well regarded enough to lead to academic and research opportunities if you are interested, even though it is a PsyD (it is the best PsyD)
    *St. John's class is smaller which could be better or worse

    Are you child track or adult track?
     
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  33. idilfranko

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    Hey! Thanks for the advice! I got into the adult track at St. Johns
     
  34. psych.meout

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    I feel like Baylor would have a bone to pick with you.
     
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  35. Hk328

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    I agree. Rutgers has a much better reputation than St. John's. Also, in regards to location, as someone who has lived in both areas, go with Rutgers. New Brunswick has the same nightlife as Manhattan, just on a smaller scale, and cheaper, if you happen to find the time. Also, Manhattan is actually an easier commute on public transit than if you were going to try to get there from that part of Queens. Neither area is cheap, but NYC is significantly worse in regards to COL. Also, if you move to the area, you could most likely get in-state tuition after the 1st year, so that could cut down on cost.
     
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  36. qwerty729

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    Well said.
    Final update for anyone who cares: I was accepted to one of my wait-list options and offered tuition remission with a scholarship to cover remaining costs. Additionally, the school is located near relatives so I won't have to worry about rent/living costs. I will be attending. I guess I won't have to worry about those dreaded loans after all.

    Thank you to those who provided genuine feedback and advice, good luck to the others.
     
  37. Future_psyd

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    Trying to decide between Widener and Roosevelt. Widener was always my top choice but will end up costing double of what Widener costs. Help!!!!!!
     
  38. Future_psyd

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    I'm having trouble choosing between widener and Roosevelt. Any insights here would be greatly appreciated too!
     
  39. Psy443

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    Your post is unclear, which one was your top choice? Roosevelt has the better national reputation. Widener likes to sell their captive internship as a strength, but dodging the appic match really isn’t a good thing. Roosevelt also has smaller cohorts and a strong APA match rate. What’re your interests? How do your research interests match with the faculty at either school?
     
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  40. Future_psyd

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    Thank you so much for your quick reply. Widener had always been my top choice due to its human sexuality dual degree program and CBT track. Ive wanted to go there for years. That said, I know that there are many routes to becoming a sex therapist. I dont necessarily need the masters to work within my desired population.

    Though widener has been my first choice school, I have no savings and will require 100% loans. While both schools have offered me scholarships, I have done the math and Widener still comes out to around $50k more, not taking into account that i will need to get a car.

    I dont really know the reputation of either school. Which school holds higher esteem? How are each schools viewed within their community? Are there any students on this thread of either school?

    Any insight you may have, I would greatly appreciate.

    Thank you!
     
  41. psyched4psychology

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    Hi!

    So I have currently been accepted to 3 schools: University of Indianapolis, University of Hartford, and Marywood University.

    So far, I have only been offered a scholarship at Marywood University of $4,000 annually for 4 years.

    I am also waitlisted at PGSP-Stanford Consortium & Loyola University Maryland.

    If I have to choose between one of the 3 schools above, is there one with a better reputation?

    My biggest concern with Marywood is the APA internship match rate.
    With Hartford, I was concerned about the vibe I got from the students and the increasingly long time it takes for students to graduate. They also did not have an on-campus clinic.
    I really liked University of Indianapolis!!

    Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks!
     
  42. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist
    Psychologist 7+ Year Member

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    Marywood does not have a good reputation. There are many internships that will not consider apps from such places. UofI and PGSP have much better reputations. Hartford has an ok reputation. At that point, I'd be looking at the total overall debt load when I was done and choose whatever kept me below 40k, if possible.
     
  43. psyched4psychology

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    Thank you very much! I appreciate the advice.

    I was informed that I'm in the top three on the waitlist for Loyola University Maryland. What is their reputation in comparison to the other schools I listed?
     
  44. FuturePsyD_

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    Which school did you decide to go with? I'll be attending the University of Indianapolis!
     
  45. freeprozac

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    I'm still on a waitlist for Adelphi.
     
  46. MHlady2014

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    Hi! I'm really interested in doing the Ph.D at Arizona State University...for many reasons, including financial and personal on the location of Arizona. But I'm a bit worried. I noticed that the school's entire list of match sites that students have already matched at in the past only has 3 in the state of Arizona. Why does it look like all the Ph.D's (and heard the Psy.D's too) are leaving the state? I called the college and they said many leave to complete post docs in another state as well. I believe post doc isn't currently required in AZ, but I was told they do have them around. Can anyone shed some light on all this? I don't want to pick the wrong school and location since I want to settle down in AZ after finishing the program. I understand that I can't really pick during the match, but are there really only like 3 places to match in AZ? Why do people keep going out of state? Thanks for any info!
     
  47. Hk328

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    According to the APA website, there are 10 accredited pre-doctoral internships in Arizona. It's not uncommon for people to move for internship. You can always move back to AZ after completing the program. Also, are you planning to apply to more than 1 program? PhDs are incredibly competitive, and putting all your eggs in one basket can be a dangerous game.
     
  48. MHlady2014

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    Okay, that makes sense. I know they are competitive. I'm going to apply to most of the schools in the area, and some are Psy.D. I really don't have an issue with going to one over the other. I'm jut potentially trying to stay in state and I don't know why everyone is leaving. Is 10 a low number?
     
  49. Hk328

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    Psychology is a pretty transient field as a whole. Because research fit is such a huge component of program acceptance, the people who limit themselves geographically can hinder their likelihood of getting into a good program. The more common view is too focus on training first and location second. After you are done with training, you can always settle down wherever it is you'd like to be. Compared to the general size of the state of Arizona and population density, I don't think 10 is that low of a number. The main thing is also looking at what types of opportunities are available. Someone who is interested in neuro is probably not going to complete a UCC internship. You should look at what your specific training goals are and if the available internships match those goals. You can also maybe try to send an email to the DCT at ASU or your potentially faculty of interest. The good news is that you have a lot of time to do your research in the time before apps are due for next cycle.
     
  50. psych.meout

    2+ Year Member

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    THis is true not just of grad programs themselves, but also internships and post docs. If you geographically limit your applications for internship, you risk not matching to an APA accredited cite, which is a huge deal.

    People are "leaving," because that's the norm in psychology. Clinical psychology doctoral programs are arguably the most competitive in terms of admissions, especially as funded programs typically take less than 10 new students each year. People who are serious about being competitive for grad school apply widely across the country, lest they severely hinder their chances of admission. Similarly, students that want to match to APA accredited internship sites (you definitely want to do this, the alternative is very bad) also apply broadly, typically across the country. Post doc might give you more flexibility about moving or not moving, depending on what you want, but, depending on what you specifically want to do (e.g., a specialty like neuropsych, forensic, or rehab psych), you may need to move again to get the best training possible and set you up for the future.

    But this is all putting the cart before the horse. What exactly is it that you want to do for a career? Private practice therapy? Assessment? Forensic work? Neuropsych? Teaching? Research?
     
  51. wtfook

    2+ Year Member

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    Honestly, my guess is that most of the people DON'T actually want to stay in Arizona and so are matching at places outside of Arizona on purpose and not because they couldn't find something in the state. Clinical PhD programs especially (less so for PsyD) tend to attract younger people who are in their mid to late 20s when facing internship year. Most of those people aren't restricted geographically due to family, spouses, etc... and so are highly interested in exploring another area of the country for a year and are highly likely to want to go after a major city or just not the general state where they did their degree.

    If Arizona were a highly competitive area like major cities (Chicago, NYC, Philly, LA, SF, etc...) then I'd say it's cuz it's just freakin hard but honestly Arizona isn't a highly sought after region for internships. 10 for the entire state is VERY low. I'm pretty sure any of the cities I listed above easily have 10 or even 20 in various areas of psychology (college counseling, VA, hospital, outpatient, etc...). So another reason might just be that Arizona does not have that many sites and so people match outside of Arizona because whatever is available in Arizona got snatched up by a student from a different school. You have to consider the fact that there are many different types of internship sites. If you want to do assessment work with adults, you'd probably wanna apply to a hospital or VA setting. There might only be 3-5 of those in Arizona and people typically apply to 17 internships. Then of those 3-5 sites, maybe only 3 actually match with your experience and expertise, and maybe only 1 puts you as their first choice. So even if you ranked ALL 3 as your top 3 and one maybe in Nevada or Colorado as your 4th, it's possible you'll end up in a different state due to the lack of sites in Arizona.
     

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