how would you rank these?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Sunkist06

New Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
how would you guys rank the following places purely in terms of reputation and relative 'ease' of getting a competitive fellowship...

BID
OHSU
Brown
cedars-sinai
scripps clinic
UVA
dartmouth
uc davis

yes, i am sort of all over the place geographically speaking but this partly due to my fiance's job...i also realize that ultimately the intangible qualities of a program and my visceral reaction to it will be far more valuable than any US World News ranking etc. but, still, i am curious, so please indulge me :)

thanks for any help in this very confusing process...and good luck to all.... :luck:

Members don't see this ad.
 
hmmm tough w/o factoring in location but i would rank them as follows....I'm guessing that uni-based programs are better for fellowships than those that are not...

BID (probably b/c i got a big fact rejection from them)
Brown
dartmouth
UVA
OHSU
UC davis
cedars-sinai
scripps clinic
 
Anastacia23 said:
hmmm tough w/o factoring in location but i would rank them as follows....I'm guessing that uni-based programs are better for fellowships than those that are not...

BID (probably b/c i got a big fact rejection from them)
Brown
dartmouth
UVA
OHSU
UC davis
cedars-sinai
scripps clinic

I pretty much agree with these rankings. Remember all of these programs can get you into a fellowship so I would pick the one you are more comfortable in.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
thanks guys!

just wondering in terms of reputation how would u rank brown, ohsu and uva?? i'm having a hard time deciding how to rank these as i feel that all 3 are a great fit for me...the angst continues... :confused:
 
Sunkist06 said:
thanks guys!

just wondering in terms of reputation how would u rank brown, ohsu and uva?? i'm having a hard time deciding how to rank these as i feel that all 3 are a great fit for me...the angst continues... :confused:


heh... I did an away rotation at all 3!!!

I would do the following : #1 UVA #2 OHSU #3 Brown, probably both in terms of reputation and and quality of training. In all, I think that UVA is heads and shoulders above the other 2, with OHSU and Brown being close. I felt that the teaching at UVA was top notch, both formal and bedside. Fellow match is pretty good, as you've probably seen, and the residents and future chiefs are wonderful people to be around. And charlottesville is acutally pretty fun, for the size, that is...

... but I'm biased, I'm going to ranking UVA high, not ranking OHSU, and I actually declined my Brown interview... I actually think that I would place UVA at the top of that list...
 
BID
OHSU
UVA
Brown
dartmouth
uc davis
scripps clinic
cedars-sinai
 
my experience with OHSU

well, portland is amazing, and everyone i met at ohsu was friendly and welcoming..but looking at some the notes i scribbled down after the interview jogged my memory about some aspects of ohsu that stuck out in a bad way.

for one, i was not particularly impressed with the quality of morning report at ohsu...the presenting resident sounded like an MS 3, the chief was reduced to the role of scriber with the PD taking over the discussion and didactics etc. obviously, everyone has bad days and i was only witness to one morning report but can anyone comment on their interview day AM report...also all the 2nd yr residents with whom i met were going into primary care and seemed to have no interest in fellowships as they were just trying to 'get thru residency'..again sampling bias, but i wonder if it is a trend...i have a list of ohsu fellowship matches which is quite impressive but i wonder how many applied but got rejected...

funny thing, in talking to other applicants at my interview at ohsu, it seems that 3/7 ppl were planning to rank brown #1!...go figure!
 
Radon said:
my experience with OHSU

well, portland is amazing, and everyone i met at ohsu was friendly and welcoming..but looking at some the notes i scribbled down after the interview jogged my memory about some aspects of ohsu that stuck out in a bad way.

for one, i was not particularly impressed with the quality of morning report at ohsu...the presenting resident sounded like an MS 3, the chief was reduced to the role of scriber with the PD taking over the discussion and didactics etc. obviously, everyone has bad days and i was only witness to one morning report but can anyone comment on their interview day AM report...also all the 2nd yr residents with whom i met were going into primary care and seemed to have no interest in fellowships as they were just trying to 'get thru residency'..again sampling bias, but i wonder if it is a trend...i have a list of ohsu fellowship matches which is quite impressive but i wonder how many applied but got rejected...

Interesting - I actually had a similar experience at OHSU. At AM report, the presenting resident was pretty good, but the other residents seemed rather uninterested in participating. I believe the differential consisted only of pneumonia and a couple of variations on the pneumonia theme. Everybody acted like that's all they could come up with. Even an attending was asked and said, "I don't think I have much more to contribute."

Also, on rounds I noticed that the patient census was very low - one intern had only 1 patient, and was discharging him. The other intern had 4, 3 of which were rocks that required very little if any management. Not sure if I just caught them on an unusual day or what, but other people did say they had slept >10 hours on call more than once as an intern. Of course I don't want to be overworked, but I think you do learn more if you see more patients.

Another concern of mine was with fellowship placement. It seems like most residents stay in town, and when they leave it's not to the strongest of programs. Residents commented that several of the subspecialty departments (pulm/cc and cards, perhaps others) have been "spotty" over the past few years but are reported to be improving with the addition of new division chairs and faculty members. It's hard to know how that will play out in the next 3 years. I was also told by residents that only a handful of the current R3's were going directly to fellowships, but many plan to do so after a year of hospitalist work. This made it tough to assess the current quality of fellowship placement. Also, so many people taking the extra year means one of two things to me: (1) there is not enough career counseling and/or elective time early in the year to help people decide what they want to do, or (2) residents need to do research to get a fellowship from this program, and there isn't enough time for it during the intern & R2 years.

All in all, it was a pretty disappointing day for me at OHSU. Since it's in my hometown (which I love) and the residents seemed great, I would like to rank it highly. At this point it's quite low on the list, but if someone had a strongly positive experience I would love to hear so I could consider moving it up a bit.
 
thanks for all the response regarding my ROL! im confused as ever, but really appreciate all the input! obviously, at the end of the day, only i can decide what program is the best fit for me...

MY OHSU EXPERIENCE
my am report was also so-so...the presenting resident was ok but i noticed that it was always the same 2-3 residents participating and no attempt was made to get others to participate...i hate being put on the spot as much as the next person but sometimes it's much too easy to mentally check-out at reports...yeah, at my am report the chief didnt really 'lead' the conference and the PD was pretty much in charge.

during rounds, i did notice that the census was low...the team consisted of 1 intern, 1 2nd-yr and 2 med students with about 6 patients total. granted, they were short-call that day and probably d/c-ing like there was no tomorrow!

yep, i also got a similar feeling re: fellowships...there is no research project required, though the pd emphasized that there was plenty of "homework"...hmmm i'm not sure how useful the this homework is gonna be to beef up my resume in time for fellowship application! the residents i talked to were also interested in hospitalist work and did not express interest in fellowship, at least for the time being...i've gotta agree with BBB in that it seems that there is a lack of prep/guidance for those interested in pursuing fellowship right after residency...the residents overwhelmingly had the attitude of just trying to get thru residency and wanting to get out into the real world to practice...during lunch the residents, when asked about why they applied to ohsu, went on and on about how great portland is etc. and the quality of the program seemed somewhat of an after-thought. one 3rd yr commented on how if u are interested in fellowship ohsu was not the place for you, and the other 3rd yr cut in saying that while you can defnately get "a fellowship, you might not get the fellowship u r seeking...hmmm sounds a little suspicious...

also, there is no board-review course for 3rd-yrs, internal or otherwise and residents say that they study on their own ...ohsu gives no book allowance so i guess mksap comes out of your own pocket...i also got no info about the didactic conferences but perhaps all that stuff is online somewhere...

so i sound like i'm on the ohsu-bashing team BUT i seriously want to love this program. i am even contemplating putting ohsu in my top 3 despite the red flags raised during my interview because my parents live in OR. also, everyone at ohsu was incredibly nice and i felt that personality-wise, i fit in...plus, i love portland! ugh, but the reality of the situation is that like BBB ultimately i don't think i'm gonna rank ohsu all that high...
 
I don't have a lot of time, but I'll quickly put in my 2 cents on OHSU.

Re: concerns about morning report. It never really struck me as a particularly poor morning report, though I also never had much to compare it to. Being on the interview trail, I've attended morning reports that I thought were worse, and some I thought were better. In my mind, OHSU's isn't either a plus or a minus.

Re: patient volume. You must have come on an extremely, weirdly light day. On the university wards, the teams are virtually always capped and nobody sleeps a wink. I consider the workload to be, in fact, occasionally overwhelming. Interns are totally zonked by the end of the year. Patient population: primarily white but there is a large Spanish speaking only population (enough to where I'm constantly irritated by the need to get a translator) and a fair number of Russians. Virtually no African Americans.

Re: fellowships. I think if you want GI or heme/onc, you're set. Very, very strong in both. Cards is more suspect. The cards department has been flailing a bit in recent years, but the recent addition of a fancy new chair and a bunch of fancy new faculty might turn things around in a big way. Or it might not. Some uncertainty there, for sure. The fact is that about half of the residents have no intention of doing a fellowship... this is fewer than at comparable large academic programs, so the feel of the residency in general will also be different. It is also correct that a large number of residents do not apply for fellowship until their third year. I have no particular explanation for why this is.

I have to go... if anybody has additional questions PM me.
 
I really loved Portland, and I thought rounds were great. I can't remember the census, but I imagine that it does fluctuate. I thought morning report was acceptable. It was run by the PD mostly, but it was better attended than some others - at least 10-15 residents/interns. My concern is with the fellowship issues as stated above, and patient population as well. I was told that HIV is not seen as much, because it is treated by family medicine residents. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Also, the patient population is likely homogenous. Ofset by the large catchment area I would imagine. I still really really want to love OHSU. Anyhow, my 2cents.
 
stat!! said:
I was told that HIV is not seen as much, because it is treated by family medicine residents. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Well, that's one explanation, but I think HIV is not seen as much because Oregon has a low incidence of HIV.

Also, the patient population is likely homogenous. Ofset by the large catchment area I would imagine.

OHSU acts as a "county hospital" to a large degree, with a significant underserved patient base. The majority of your patients will be white, but the majority will be below the poverty line and a large number will be homeless. There is also a significant Spanish-speaking-only population... not so much that you'll feel a compelling urge to learn Spanish if you don't already know it, but you'll be calling for a translator probably once a night on call. Nobody should claim, however, that the patient demographics are nearly as diverse as you'll see in Southern Cal, Texas, New York, etc. programs.
 
stat!! said:
My concern is with the fellowship issues as stated above, and patient population as well. I was told that HIV is not seen as much, because it is treated by family medicine residents. Can anyone confirm or deny this? .

For what it's worth, on my interview day at OHSU I rounded with a team at the VA, and we spent considerable time discussing a patient with HIV.

Other than that, I thought there was nice comradery, and generally enjoyed the day. My feelings were pretty much in line with the other posters.

Dr. Daria
 
OHSU:

Pros:
Residents and faculty- One of the more easy-going programs I interviewed at. Residents super-friendly, but are the faculty. Hospitalist system means no privates at all. I would agree with all the pros mentioned previously. AM report was more relaxed than at other places, with more obvious comraderie between residents AND faculty.

Cons:
Fellowship placement- True that many residents do NOT go straight into fellowship, but I believe it is because 1) it is VERY common, and thus supported, in this program to take time off between residency and fellowship, whereas at some of the bigger programs, almost everyone goes straight through; 2) while there is time in the intern year to pursue research, I think it may take more effort to get a significant reserach project going so early, which may not be the personality/style of the residents who tend to match at OHSU (meaning they are of a more laid-back crowd); and 3) a mix of reasons 1 & 2 in that those who tend to rank OHSU high and match may do so because while they know they are interested in a fellowship, they may not be sure of which field; do not know what kind of research they may want to dive into their intern year; do not want a more cut-throat program where everyone is vying to get into fellowships; and see that it is okay at OHSU to not go striaght from residency into fellowship. However, I have been told that the cards here is not as strong as some other programs and while it is also true that most of the residents here do not get fellowships at the top places, I also wonder how much of that is the choice of the residents in that maybe they are not the type who want the ultra-competitive programs. Another reason why they might have decided to come to OHSU.

Patient population- Yes, quite homogenous. Even though the university hospital serves as the closest thing to Portland's county hospital, there is less HIV than in larger cities and programs. But very little ethinic/cultural diversity. Having to get a translator is not something that the residents come across a lot, compared to other university programs on the West coast.
 
jadedbearsprite said:
I also wonder how much of that is the choice of the residents in that maybe they are not the type who want the ultra-competitive programs

This is really a key point. Somebody in this thread or another thread mentioned that they didn't think OHSU's residents were "as smart" as residents at some other places they've seen. While this may or may not be true, I think that this perception has way more to do with the kind of person that wants to be at OHSU rather than any actual knowledge deficit. OHSU traditionally gets a lot of residents who want to do primary care or who want to work for a year or more between residency and fellowship. I think a lot of applicants come here and they see a lot of residents who want to do general medicine, or residents who don't seem like they're busting down the doors of research labs by the beginning of their intern year, and they think "these guys aren't smart." I have only a subjective and probably biased viewpoint, but I'd wager the residents are probably as "smart" and capable as the residents just about anywhere. They're just generally of a different mindset than applicants are used to seeing at a large academic program.

I really like OHSU. But I'm not going to oversell it: if you're gunning for cards at Duke, then OHSU isn't for you. Not that it wouldn't fully prepare you, but it just doesn't have the name recognition that'll get you places. If you're looking for a place that doesn't just comply with the 80-hour rule but stays comfortably beneath it, than OHSU also isn't for you. Interns work their freakin' asses off. But it does offer extremely solid clinical training and an infinitely supportive faculty, in a very cool city.
 
Top