IM program rankings

[P Diddy]

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why does all this rankings business matter? I understand most are for ego purposes and some will say it's for fellowship placement, but if it's for fellowship matching, isn't it just easy to contact the individual program and see which graduates have matched into what fellowships? who cares if a program is top 5 in another person's eyes, it's just all personal opinions. i feel that this thread is pretty dumb, just browsing through makes me feel like im reading a thread with a bunch of teenagers talking about which sport team is the best

the ranking business garners all this hoopla because of the idea that a higher rank leads to more or better career options. a Harvard grad may not be any smarter than a UMiss grad, but the Harvard grad has better options in general. as you note astutely, a much better approach is to find out whether a program's graduates get to do the sort of things or go to the sort of places that you would want. unfortunately, it's often difficult to find this information. beware of programs that are coy in this regard.

p diddy

 

[whatfun]

i think this is a rather silly conversation for several reasons:

1) the quality of your education and experience is most closely reflected by the effort of the individual. there are people from many less-prestigious programs that get outstanding fellowships and do great things in their careers. you should think first about where you want to live, what your goals are and if they can practically be obtained at a given institution.

2) i can't speak for other programs, but i have done rotations at iowa and mayo and i can say i was very happy with both. iowa was really a surprise to me and i feel it is very well rounded wtih a broad variety of pathology (only Univ. hospital in a rather rural state of 3 million) and the focus on teaching and EBM at Mayo is very unique - it's well-worked into the curriculum for residents.

i can't speak directly to other programs, but i've had a positive impression of both. i think there are many strong IM programs in the nation where you can be effectively prepared for fellowships or private practice. i'm likley to stay in the midwest, hence my away rotation picks, but i am applying to a couple big name eastern programs to see what they're like and if i'd want to live there.

i guess my main point is to remember that you'll be most successful at a high quality program where you are happy - both work-wise and personally.

oh oh i wanna put in my 2 cents!!

take stanford out of your top 5...that's ridiculous man, they're not even top 15 any more. bump Penn up into your top 5 in its place. slide UTSW into Penn's place in the middle 5 (i'd put them at #10). then you've definitely gotta dump UCSD - that's all based on location, it's not as good a program as it is just competitive to get into in order to live in San Diego (not a bad program, mind you, but not top 15). also dump Yale, they live on name reputation...program isn't as strong as it used to be. also dump cornell....columbia and cornell roughly a tossup, Columbia likely would slide in at #15. add Vanderbilt, UAB, Northwestern (as much as it pains me to say it, with recent slips at U. of Chicago, Northwestern is likely the best IM program in Chicago). Chicago and Cornell, as well as Michigan, UNC, and possibly Emory or Iowa (a definite darkhorse - I know very little about this program, but I've heard some very good things) could round out the top 20. and of course, this is all completely, 100% scientific on my part

 

[texas_ute]

👎

There are NO RANKINGS of INTERNAL MEDICINE RESIDENCY PROGRAMS!!- this information does not exist, so why do people insist on arbitrarily creating there own "ranking" system in 1st, 2nd, 3d tiers?? There are rankings of hospitals and rankings of departments- this may give you information on funding, nurse to patient ratios, etc, but it tells you ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the quality of a training program.

In applying for residency training programs, just do some research:
1. Apply to programs in cities where you think you will be happy living (near SO, family; near things you like to do, etc.)
2. Agree with P Diddy above- find out what their grads do after residency
(?matching in competive fellowships, % who go into fellowship vs. general practice- this will be important depending on which route you are interested in).
3. Look at ABIM pass rate data
4. Talk with people actually doing residency at that program/ read scutwork.com reviews/ etc. to get the real story.
5. Quit making up "rankings"

 

[Gfunk6]

When you are an intern on your tenth admit of the night in the ICU, that thick wad of NIH funding will NOT make the one-inch-thick callroom pillow any softer. And when you are on your first call night as an R2 with no supervision and a crashing patient, the US News rankings will not compensate for inexperience due to a too-cush intern year.

Just some thoughts...

True. But consider this . . . when you are an R-2 with an elective month or two and are interested in applying for a GI or Cards fellowship, where would you rather be?

(a) a communiy hospital that has excellent "hands on" clinical training
(b) a world-class academic medical center w/ tons of research dollars invested in cards/gi departments w/ many clinical or basic science projects for you to jump on and publish

When you are finishing up your R3 and realize that your cards program recieved 700 applications for maybe 9 spots, think where you would rather be.

Rankings are not the be all end all. But if you want a highly competitive fellowship or to stay in academics, they should factor into your ranking equation.

 

[orientedtoself]

There are NO RANKINGS of INTERNAL MEDICINE RESIDENCY PROGRAMS!!- this information does not exist, so why do people insist on arbitrarily creating there own "ranking" system in 1st, 2nd, 3d tiers?? There are rankings of hospitals and rankings of departments- this may give you information on funding, nurse to patient ratios, etc, but it tells you ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the quality of a training program.
"

There are no official rankings and US News is cr@p, but people can make their own ranking system based on reputation/prestige. I think that's what people are getting at. And eventually, applicants will have to create their own rankings in their own ROL. Obviously, that's a personal choice taking into account many other factors.

 

[48 hours]

i think this is a rather silly conversation for several reasons:

1) the quality of your education and experience is most closely reflected by the effort of the individual. there are people from many less-prestigious programs that get outstanding fellowships and do great things in their careers. you should think first about where you want to live, what your goals are and if they can practically be obtained at a given institution.

2) i can't speak for other programs, but i have done rotations at iowa and mayo and i can say i was very happy with both. iowa was really a surprise to me and i feel it is very well rounded wtih a broad variety of pathology (only Univ. hospital in a rather rural state of 3 million) and the focus on teaching and EBM at Mayo is very unique - it's well-worked into the curriculum for residents.

i can't speak directly to other programs, but i've had a positive impression of both. i think there are many strong IM programs in the nation where you can be effectively prepared for fellowships or private practice. i'm likley to stay in the midwest, hence my away rotation picks, but i am applying to a couple big name eastern programs to see what they're like and if i'd want to live there.

i guess my main point is to remember that you'll be most successful at a high quality program where you are happy - both work-wise and personally.

I agree that what Behcet has said angers me as well... I mean, what are these supposed "slips at U Chicago" ...what is he/she even talking about? But, unfortunately, half of this thread is 3 years old. So, we probably shouldn't let what posters argued about 3 years ago bother us too much even if they are very, very wrong. 😎

I think you are right on. "Rankings" or "reputations" or how ever you want to put it matter somewhat, because the basic point here is that whether or not we want it to, it matters what outsiders think of your program. It matters, because it will help you secure fellowship where you want to go, etc.

Also, I think it is fair to say that some programs have secured such a reputation for a reason. There is generally some truth to all of this beyond NIH funding. But, yea, in my opinion, I think you should always worry about finding a location where you will be happy first, and then going from there....

Hopefully, once people start going on interviews, their experiences and impressions at/of certain programs will be more helpful....

 

[salmonella]

Which California programs (other than UCSF) are most successful in sending their grads to cardiology fellowships?

 

[scrub monkey]

other than ucsf? you have to include stanford.

almost 1/2 of the residents there go into cards. most to top-notch cardiology fellowships.

 

[AntGod22]

Here is my ranking, I go with the US NEWS
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/health/best-hospitals/honorroll.htm

I will chose mayo over hopkins since mayo has a nicer lifestyle and community to live in. PLus I havent revieved a interview yet from hopkins so screw them if they dont want me !!!! lol