Is Tufts Worth 315k plus interest?

[BlueElmo]

No, that's where you are wrong. Just because one is of early age doesn't mean we are naive. Age doesn't constitute the maturity of person. Hey buddy, I've mentioned before that my parents are barely contributing anything to my education because they are barely able to sustain themselves. So I would know what real-life cost of living is. I'm doing it right now.

"uncertainty of future income" Doesn't that apply to everyone? If I suffer and am in massive debt with no job and what not, it'll be the same as no job and no debt. Either way I'm F-ed. Might as well rack up as much as I can now while I still can and hope for the best.

As Blue-Elmo stated. Medicine is not for Money its for a different cause all together. There are WAY more professions that will drown you in money but MD is not one of them, I THINK.

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[sirus_virus]

Use your head guys, there is a reason why you only find these types of wierd "i'll do it regardless of cost" posts on pre-allo. Enjoy the ride.

 

[md2010hopeful]

Does Tufts offer any merit-based aid?

 

[MossPoh]

If it were the ONLY school I got into then I would consider it. I would probably start considering HPSP at that point too. Damn I love my 18k a year school in a cheap town.

I'll be finishing with about 60k in debt.

Yea yea yea, medicine isn't about the money. It still plays a pretty big role in things. If it doesn't now then it will when or if you have all the other things that accompany life at a later age. People grow tired of living like students after a while.

As far as the health care crap, not much is going to change. A fee for service system will always be in place because too many docs (and others) will be royally peeved if it goes away. The distribution might change and there might be incentives to actually focus on preventative healthcare, but other than that, you aren't going to be poor. Will we make money like in the 70s? Hellz no. Only the truly entrepreneurial and business savvy docs will stand a shot at cash in that range. Will you be able to pay off loans? Sure. Living tight for a while though.

I'm only a first year and already have agreements with the hospital from my hometown. If I choose a specialty they need and I choose to return there, then I will get about as much assistance as one can possible require. If you are dead set on living in some wonderful metropolitan area then you will take the hit...

 

[medicinesux]

In case you missed it, here is Tufts accepting their reward for having the highest tuition and fees in the nation for 2009-2010:

[YOUTUBE]wrFhYBAFt34[/YOUTUBE]

 

[JJMrK]

I sure hope not!

That seems really high for a state school, but I can see how it would get to that amount with $30k+ tuition and fees, and upwards of $20k for everything else in a high cost of living area...

Does AMCAS/AAMC still claim the average indebtedness is around $140k? That seems like a dated number, and I assume it includes in the denominator all the people who got scholarships...

I think the AAMC does still quote a number around 150k. Pretty sure that includes people who have scholarships and full rides. It would be interesting to see that number not including the people who aren't taking out any loans.

If it were the ONLY school I got into then I would consider it. I would probably start considering HPSP at that point too. Damn I love my 18k a year school in a cheap town.

I'll be finishing with about 60k in debt.

That's only 15k/year. What about living expenses?

 

[FloatOn]

I think the "Medicine worth $300k of debt?" thread in the Resident forum fits in perfectly with the discussion here. Check it out to see what some people far past the pre-med stage are saying:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=663924

 

[chman]

I think the "Medicine worth $300k of debt?" thread in the Resident forum fits in perfectly with the discussion here. Check it out to see what some people far past the pre-med stage are saying:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=663924

I read that the other day. Really made me think. I now visit that part of the forum more often. It is one thing to listen to a bunch of pre-meds who think they know everything (sometimes, I admit, I fit in this category), and another to listen to people who have been through it and know what they are talking about.

 

[09javcar]

I read that the other day. Really made me think. I now visit that part of the forum more often. It is one thing to listen to a bunch of pre-meds who think they know everything (sometimes, I admit, I fit in this category), and another to listen to people who have been through it and know what they are talking about.

 

[searun]

I am going to be real happy with my 100k med school debt from my private med school that took pity on my impoverished state.

 

[Jolie South]

Use your head guys, there is a reason why you only find these types of wierd "i'll do it regardless of cost" posts on pre-allo. Enjoy the ride.

Make no mistake, I'll be graduating debt free due to a commitment I made to the military, but you can't make a career decision solely based on money. If people did that, we'd have no teachers or folks doing the many other thankless, much needed jobs out there.

 

[mike1618]

Yes, you can make a decision based on the money....and you damn well should. 315k in debt would not allow you to practice in any of the primary care arenas. You would be forced to try and specialize into something more lucrative.

Some of these school costs are getting out of line with what they are worth. An MD degree is not worth 315k because keep in mind that for most 315k turns into over 1 million quite easily with compounded interest.

Don't be naive and buy into the BS.

 

[Jolie South]

Yes, you can make a decision based on the money....and you damn well should. 315k in debt would not allow you to practice in any of the primary care arenas. You would be forced to try and specialize into something more lucrative.

Some of these school costs are getting out of line with what they are worth. An MD degree is not worth 315k because keep in mind that for most 315k turns into over 1 million quite easily with compounded interest.

Don't be naive and buy into the BS.

I guess you're gunning to be an A list actor or NFL player then.

 

[MegaProjectile]

Yes, you can make a decision based on the money....and you damn well should. 315k in debt would not allow you to practice in any of the primary care arenas. You would be forced to try and specialize into something more lucrative.

Some of these school costs are getting out of line with what they are worth. An MD degree is not worth 315k because keep in mind that for most 315k turns into over 1 million quite easily with compounded interest.

Don't be naive and buy into the BS.

Umm, not true. There are programs that pay back your loans as PCP if you serve in underserved areas. Some pay 35k/year towards your debt. You can do these for a couple of years to bring down the debt and then move on elsewhere to start your own practice.

 

[dingyibvs]

Umm, not true. There are programs that pay back your loans as PCP if you serve in underserved areas. Some pay 35k/year towards your debt. You can do these for a couple of years to bring down the debt and then move on elsewhere to start your own practice.

pcp? dang, so you can have the illusions of having paid off your debt?

 

[MegaProjectile]

pcp? dang, so you can have the illusions of having paid off your debt?

It's not an illusion. The NHSC(National Health Service Corps) helps with loan repayments for PCPs willing to serve in underserved areas. It requires a 2 year commitment and a pay of 50k towards your loan for those two years. You can add another 2 years of service if you choose so.

Secondly, there are hospitals in rural areas that also assist with student loans if you work for them or have an adjacent medical practice. $315k is a lot of money but it's far from a death sentence as some have made it out to be.

 

[09javcar]

Yes, you can make a decision based on the money....and you damn well should. 315k in debt would not allow you to practice in any of the primary care arenas. You would be forced to try and specialize into something more lucrative.

Some of these school costs are getting out of line with what they are worth. An MD degree is not worth 315k because keep in mind that for most 315k turns into over 1 million quite easily with compounded interest.

Don't be naive and buy into the BS.

Umm, If you are going to allow money to dictate your dreams than please change you career while you still have chance. Like I've stated before, a "true" doctor doesn't enter the this field based on the money, they enter because they have a driven desire to become one, may it be personal reasons, etc. Also take into account that with a 200k, average reported Family Practitioner salary, working for 35 years translates to 7 Million dollars, So that "1 mill" you spend on education will not hurt you much. I think.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Umm, If you are going to allow money to dictate your dreams than please change you career while you still have chance.

lol1.

Also take into account that with a 200k, average reported Family Practitioner salary,

lol2.

 

[09javcar]

lol1.


lol2.

Whats so funny? As people on here have stated, you never contribute anything of use. Waste of cyber space..

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Whats so funny? As people on here have stated, you never contribute anything of use. Waste of cyber space..

lol3.

 

[JJMrK]

Umm, If you are going to allow money to dictate your dreams than please change you career while you still have chance. Like I've stated before, a "true" doctor doesn't enter the this field based on the money, they enter because they have a driven desire to become one, may it be personal reasons, etc. Also take into account that with a 200k, average reported Family Practitioner salary, working for 35 years translates to 7 Million dollars, So that "1 mill" you spend on education will not hurt you much. I think.

Money makes the world go 'round. It would be pretty foolish to disregard fiscal concerns completely.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Money makes the world go 'round. It would be pretty foolish to disregard fiscal concerns completely.

no no no! money has no place in dreams! because they're DREEEAAAAMMMMSS. change careers please! i'm giving you solid advice right now.

 

[TheBigCat]

Does Tufts offer any merit-based aid?

I am currently student at Tufts and yes they do offer merit- and need-based aide. They may not have as much money to give out as some other schools, but a lot of people in my class have gotten some pretty significant help from them, myself included. Tufts is the most expensive, but if you look at the costs of attendance at other schools many of them are in the same ballpark (i.e. Cornell, Duke, BU, Georgetown, Tulane, to name a few).

 

[RogueUnicorn]

(i.e. Cornell, Duke, BU, Georgetown, Tulane, to name a few).

just a random pet peeve of mine, but.

i.e. - id est, or "that is" or colloquially "in other words"
--> the head of the executive branch, i.e. the president, blah blah

e.g. - exemplis gratis or "example given" or more commonly "for example"
--> a member of congress, e.g. the speaker of the house, can blah blah

=)

 

[09javcar]

Money makes the world go 'round. It would be pretty foolish to disregard fiscal concerns completely.

Of course I know money will feed me and buy me shelter. What I meant by this is that other careers have higher money payouts than medicine. If money is top priority then why be a doctor at all? How much is average indebtedness for Med Students currently? Prob approaching 200k, so why bother? You have to have more reasons besides money for entering this field.

My list from in importance for entering this field:

1. Family health problems
2. Dream
3. Desire to learn
4. Money

Money for me is at the bottom. Of course I'll worry about the debt when I'm out, I chose this field and I'm willing to do what ever it takes to fulfill it.

 

[Bruinsfinalfour]

Those who say that "money plays no part in your decision to be a doctor" are either A) delusional B) ignorant C) lying
No matter how much you love the field of medicine and enjoy helping others, living a financially strapped life will suck out most of that enjoyment.

 

[chiz2kul]

zippity

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Dude, I prob have the same ideal concerning medicine as you do. But you have to approach things from a realistic point of view.

good thing adcoms supposedly value an informed passion for medicine.

 

[armybound]

Just wanna be that moderator guy and throw this out there..

This thread is about a somewhat "sensitive" topic in that people get easily offended when their values/morals/beliefs/dreams/goals/desires are attacked.

As such, please refrain from making personal attacks or insults against others. No need to get this thread closed

 

[09javcar]

Have you ever thought about QUALITY of life...

Don't talk to me about "Quality", I grew up with a harsh life. Almost died when I was 1 year old living in basement on a 5k/yr salary from my dad. How about you? Where did you grow up? Upper/middle class home with a nice a comfy bed? I don't mind living in small apartment with minimal qualities, you know why? Because I was brought up without them. Hey buddy, the only reason doctors get paid so much is because of greedy people who charge a crap load to care for others and if they don't have the money to pay for care, those people are thrown out into the street. Why pass up an opportunity to become a doctor because of money though? I wouldn't. The the point where I stop pursuing being a doctor is when the benefits no longer outweighed the price. I don't even plan on staying in the US, place is a crap shoot when it comes to health care where it's driven by money.

What if all school were priced the same? Say 315k, would you give up just because it's to much?

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Don't talk to me about "Quality", I grew up with a harsh life. Almost died when I was 1 year old living in basement on a 5k/yr salary from my dad. How about you? Where did you grow up? Upper/middle class home with a nice a comfy bed? I don't mind living in small apartment with minimal qualities, you know why? Because I was brought up without them. Hey buddy, the only reason doctors get paid so much is because of greedy people who charge a crap load to care for others and if they don't have the money to pay for care, those people are thrown out into the street. Why pass up an opportunity to become a doctor because of money though? I wouldn't. The the point where I stop pursuing being a doctor is when the benefits no longer outweighed the price. I don't even plan on staying in the US, place is a crap shoot when it comes to health care where it's driven by money.

What if all school were priced the same? Say 315k, would you give up just because it's to much?

oh my god can your soapbox be any bigger and soapier?

Hey buddy, the only reason doctors get paid so much is because of greedy people who charge a crap load to care for others and if they don't have the money to pay for care, those people are thrown out into the street.

just had to pull this out on its own. uh. what??

 

[09javcar]

just had to pull this out on its own. uh. what??

Have you not seen people get thrown into the street because insurance companies didn't want to pay and doctors just stood there and did nothing, letting people die? I sure have and it's sad to see this happening in America.

And laugh at my comment, just because you haven't gone through anything like that. Correct me if I'm wrong. BTW I'm not even trying to make it a huge deal but I just wanted to make it clear to him that I'm not fragile material that gives up or lives with mommy and daddy and can't take care of themselves.

EDIT: I'm getting off topic there. Just saying.

But what ever, to all their own. I just know I wouldn't risk denying an acceptance to a good school because of money. SPECIALLY if my stats weren't super competitive to compete next year and grant me admission with a nearly 100% percent certainty.

 

[armybound]

Have you not seen people get thrown into the street because insurance companies didn't want to pay and doctors just stood there and did nothing, letting people die? I sure have and it's sad to see this happening in America.

And laugh at my comment, just because you haven't gone through anything like that. Correct me if I'm wrong. BTW I'm not even trying to make it a huge deal but I just wanted to make it clear to him that I'm not fragile material that gives up or lives with mommy and daddy and can't take care of themselves.

there's a thing called EMTALA, read up on it.

 

[MSSM2013]

Don't talk to me about "Quality", I grew up with a harsh life. Almost died when I was 1 year old living in basement on a 5k/yr salary from my dad. How about you? Where did you grow up? Upper/middle class home with a nice a comfy bed? I don't mind living in small apartment with minimal qualities, you know why? Because I was brought up without them. Hey buddy, the only reason doctors get paid so much is because of greedy people who charge a crap load to care for others and if they don't have the money to pay for care, those people are thrown out into the street. Why pass up an opportunity to become a doctor because of money though? I wouldn't. The the point where I stop pursuing being a doctor is when the benefits no longer outweighed the price. I don't even plan on staying in the US, place is a crap shoot when it comes to health care where it's driven by money.

What if all school were priced the same? Say 315k, would you give up just because it's to much?

don't push your belief to other people.

 

[09javcar]

there's a thing called EMTALA, read up on it.

I know there are regulations and such, but seriously, would you sit there and watch a 2 year old girl die in her mothers arms front in of you knowing you could save her life? I would never forgive myself if I did something like that.

don't push your belief to other people.

I'm not trying to. Just saying.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Have you not seen people get thrown into the street because insurance companies didn't want to pay and doctors just stood there and did nothing, letting people die? I sure have and it's sad to see this happening in America.

And laugh at my comment, just because you haven't gone through anything like that. Correct me if I'm wrong. BTW I'm not even trying to make it a huge deal but I just wanted to make it clear to him that I'm not fragile material that gives up or lives with mommy and daddy and can't take care of themselves.

EDIT: I'm getting off topic there. Just saying.

But what ever, to all their own. I just know I wouldn't risk denying an acceptance to a good school because of money. SPECIALLY if my stats weren't super competitive to compete next year and grant me admission with a nearly 100% percent certainty.

no. i have never seen a doctor stand around while a person was dying because that person could not pay. i'm also quite certain this is illegal. have you BEEN in a hospital in this country? have you TALKED to doctors?

man you must feel you're real special.

 

[09javcar]

no. i have never seen a doctor stand around while a person was dying because that person could not pay. i'm also quite certain this is illegal. have you BEEN in a hospital in this country? have you TALKED to doctors?

man you must feel you're real special.

Yes, it's illegal but it's been done. You should read up on some cases. I've read of people who were kicked out of hospitals, dazed, confused, and ill because they couldn't fork up the bill.

And no I don't feel special. I've been to third world countries and I've seen cases 10000x worse. Kids with huge scars, starving, no food or shelter. Don't fill my mouth with words.

 

[armybound]

A few bad apples don't speak for the majority of practitioners.

We've seen some moral leaders of our country do immoral things and it doesn't mean everyone is immoral.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Yes, it's illegal but it's been done. You should read up on some cases. I've read of people who were kicked out of hospitals, dazed, confused, and ill because they couldn't fork up the bill.

And no I don't feel special. I've been to third world countries and I've seen cases 10000x worse. Kids with huge scars, starving, no food or shelter. Don't fill my mouth with words.

i've also read that some med students have murdered people. it's illegal but it's been done. i've read they did terrible things. man, this country's med students are F'ED UP!!

i've never been to third world countries. ever. no way. no one other than you could be from there.

 

[chiz2kul]

zipppppp

 

[09javcar]

A few bad apples don't speak for the majority of practitioners.

We've seen some moral leaders of our country do immoral things and it doesn't mean everyone is immoral.

Yeah, I know but that's the point. Money drives people to commit stupid acts like not treat others and letting them die.

BTW one of the cases I read up on took place at USC med.

I just hope everyone on here doesn't do something similar to the cases I've read. And an apology for getting out hand. No hard feelings.

I wouldn't consider it too. But I still think 315k isn't where I draw the line. Something absurd like 600-700k YES, there you are NUTS. lol I think? But I'm just saying if I knew, gut feeling, that I wasn't going to be admitted anywhere else be it this year or the next then I'll take my chances. That's what life is anyways right? Taking chances.

 

[armybound]

Yeah, I know but that's the point. Money drives people to commit stupid acts like not treat others and letting them die.

BTW one of the cases I read up on took place at USC med.

I just hope everyone on here doesn't do something similar to the cases I've read. And an apology for getting out hand. No hard feelings.

People do bad things all over the place.

It seems like you're letting emotion drive a lot of what you do or think, which some people may find a little short-sighted.

 

[09javcar]

People do bad things all over the place.

It seems like you're letting emotion drive a lot of what you do or think, which some people may find a little short-sighted.

Hey, still a kid here, need to grow up a tad bit more. People on here are right, right now I think a certain way but my views may change in the future. I doubt I'd pass up an opportunity though.

 

[FloatOn]

Of course I know money will feed me and buy me shelter. What I meant by this is that other careers have higher money payouts than medicine. If money is top priority then why be a doctor at all? How much is average indebtedness for Med Students currently? Prob approaching 200k, so why bother? You have to have more reasons besides money for entering this field.

My list from in importance for entering this field:

1. Family health problems
2. Dream
3. Desire to learn
4. Money

Money for me is at the bottom. Of course I'll worry about the debt when I'm out, I chose this field and I'm willing to do what ever it takes to fulfill it.

Please tell me you didn't say yes on the ridiculous poop hot dog poll.

 

[09javcar]

Please tell me you didn't say yes on the ridiculous poop hot dog poll.

Ummmmm, Would you believe me if I said no?


If yes then no I didn't.

 

[dude1344]

It is literally FINANCIAL SUICIDE to take on this much debt to go to med school. Look at the friggin interest rates on this type of debt. If you haven't had the experience of working a job to fully support yourself or have a good understanding of finances, to just brush it off and say "I'll make money later and pay it off" is asinine.

Think about your family and the rest of your life.

 

[cardinal2010]

Yes its a lot of money 300k in loans = ~600k if you're paying over 30 years.

That being said, If you're paying the 600k Over 20 years (30 years - 4 years med school - 6 years residency + fellowship), Thats 30k a year.

30k a year of post tax income is a big hit, but for anyone in a non PCP setting their income is more than enough to offset that. PCPs likewise often have loan reimbursement programs that will probably expand as the PCP shortage gets more drastic. Also remember 15 years from now 30k will seem like 15-20k today. This also is assuming that you're not paying 1 cent of the loan in residency or fellowship, which seems foolish to me.

The take home point here (the way I see it) is that while medicine is simply a less lucrative field than before, it is most certainly doable. Going into medicine as a guaranteed way to be living in a huge house, driving 2 lexuses and being a member of the country club seems like a bad bet these days, but doctors will always be pulling down solid middle to upper-middle class incomes.

For me, I want to be a doctor even if it means making less than I would in another field. Job satisfaction is much more important then wealth.

 

[armybound]

For me, I want to be a doctor even if it means making less than I would in another field. Job satisfaction is much more important then wealth.

Ironically, jobs somehow become less satisfying when you one day realize you're working too much for not enough pay to stay happy through all of the crap you have to deal with.

 

[flip26]

What if all school were priced the same? Say 315k, would you give up just because it's to much?

Yes, I would, to use your words, "give up." The gig is not worth it.

The idealistic naivete of premeds who are willing to take on $315k+ debt for this "dream" of med school is breathtaking.

 

[ButImLETired]

My favorite thing is that the people on this thread who argue for the "let's shut Tufts down for stealing our money and 'curb their tuition', vive la resistance" are also arguing they are the RATIONAL ones. That's a riot. If you think about it for more than 10 seconds, you'll realize that a med school is an outstandingly expensive endeavor and unless you have a massive, extremely wealthy private school to back you up, you'll have to charge a pretty high tuition if you want to stay in a desirable area.

As many people have pointed out, while Tufts is certainly up there, it's by no means up there alone. Georgetown, GW, Cornell, not to mention state schools like UIC or Wayne State (for OOSers) are also on that bandwagon. What do these schools have in common? They are either in absurdly expensive areas, often with other big hospitals around to "steal some of their business", or are usually heavily state-funded and are therefore unable to help out OOSers. Sorry, but that's how expensive it is to educate us.

So yeah, before you get your panties in a bunch and start charging down schools with pitchforks and torches, consider how much more fun it would be to apply to med school with maybe 20, 30 fewer. Hell, 200k sounds like a huge unfair number too, let's cut it down to maybe 50 med schools in total in the country. All those qualified students in CA or states that don't have med schools can really just deal and find another career, cause what kind of naive idiot would pay 200k for an education?! We'll just only have doctors in TX. That'll work.

By the way, if you're getting all in an uproar even about 200k, I wouldn't be in med school right now, even though thanks to a very generous scholarship I'll be graduating with 80k of debt.