job prospects crappy residency program

[deleted873183]

This question has sort of been asked before, however I just want to ask an extreme example. The reason I ask is that I most likely will be participating in the SOAP (failed to match ophtho) and many of the programs in the SOAP are not great. Obviously I would want to train at the best residency I could get...

Say I attend a program and for the purposes of this question we will just say it is all of the following:
- brand new
- community program
- located in a place I don't want to live

Assuming I still work hard, study and do well on the boards, etc, how challenging will it be get a job in a different region (not necessarily a desirable region, just different)? Are jobs posted on sites like gaswork typically open to hiring people from crappy residencies?

Obviously I know that I wouldn't be going on to do academics or desireable fellowships, but what about fellowships like regional?

Thanks for your help

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[AdmiralChz]

You are assuming only the worst of the worst is left, which actually isn’t the case. Full disclosure time - I personally didn’t match in a surgical sub specialty and SOAPed into a solid mid-to-upper tier program that was undergoing PD turnover and made some rough decisions during ranking. One of my co-residents was in the same boat.

I was pretty down after not matching, but I was thrilled to find a solid place in the Southeast to train. I had never lived in the state but I moved there and worked my tail off for 4 years. I felt like I had something to prove, that I was worth taking a risk on. I got phenomenal training and matched at my top choice of fellowship, and I’m moving back home for a great PP job in a few months. My co-resident is also doing a cardiac fellowship and is going to take a job close to home, no problem!

SOAP is what you make of it, there is no use bemoaning or going through “wonder why this place sucks so bad they didn’t fill.” Emory had a ton of open spots a few years ago, does that mean the training there is horrendous? Probably not. Michigan had a bunch of open spots as well! Go in eager, ready to work and be a team player.

When we had open spots, we routinely matched excellent applicants that somehow fell through the cracks of the main match, almost always in sub specialties. I can honestly say I’m so much happier now than if I had continued forward with my planned specialty - I was largely fooling myself and my heart certainly wasn’t in surgery.

Happy to discuss more over PM if you’d like. The program I matched at wasn’t new, wasn’t community-based and wasn’t too far out in the middle of nowhere (relatively). Don’t despair, think of this as the beginning and not the end. It’s cheesy, but honesty these things really do have a funky way of working themselves out for the better! Good luck.

As for jobs - look early. People from my program scattered all over the country, so look into the alumni network and see if anyone is around there. Maybe medical school graduates as well. A fellowship can definitely help open doors - regional is minimally competitive (especially compared to Peds & Cardiac), but not a necessity for PP work. If you come up empty, a fellowship closer to where you want to live may help.

 

[DokterMom]

If you were a non-delusional candidate for ophtho , that would make you at least a strong candidate overall, so one of the better applicants in the SOAP. And as @AdmiralChz has pointed out, just as there are always some strong applicants who fell through the sub-specialty cracks, there are also always a few good programs in the SOAP. They tend to find each other and this is likely to be the case with you as well.

If you have not already delayed graduation for a research year, that could also be an option for you.

 

[Psai]

You are assuming only the worst of the worst is left, which actually isn’t the case. Full disclosure time - I personally didn’t match in a surgical sub specialty and SOAPed into a solid mid-to-upper tier program that was undergoing PD turnover and made some rough decisions during ranking. One of my co-residents was in the same boat.

I was pretty down after not matching, but I was thrilled to find a solid place in the Southeast to train. I had never lived in the state but I moved there and worked my tail off for 4 years. I felt like I had something to prove, that I was worth taking a risk on. I got phenomenal training and matched at my top choice of fellowship, and I’m moving back home for a great PP job in a few months. My co-resident is also doing a cardiac fellowship and is going to take a job close to home, no problem!

SOAP is what you make of it, there is no use bemoaning or going through “wonder why this place sucks so bad they didn’t fill.” Emory had a ton of open spots a few years ago, does that mean the training there is horrendous? Probably not. Michigan had a bunch of open spots as well! Go in eager, ready to work and be a team player.

When we had open spots, we routinely matched excellent applicants that somehow fell through the cracks of the main match, almost always in sub specialties. I can honestly say I’m so much happier now than if I had continued forward with my planned specialty - I was largely fooling myself and my heart certainly wasn’t in surgery.

Happy to discuss more over PM if you’d like. The program I matched at wasn’t new, wasn’t community-based and wasn’t too far out in the middle of nowhere (relatively). Don’t despair, think of this as the beginning and not the end. It’s cheesy, but honesty these things really do have a funky way of working themselves out for the better! Good luck.

As for jobs - look early. People from my program scattered all over the country, so look into the alumni network and see if anyone is around there. Maybe medical school graduates as well. A fellowship can definitely help open doors - regional is minimally competitive (especially compared to Peds & Cardiac), but not a necessity for PP work. If you come up empty, a fellowship closer to where you want to live may help.

Wow michigan had open spots? I know they're one of the biggest programs in the country, if not the biggest, but it is such a great program with a top notch chair.

 

[dannyboy1]

LOL. AMC’s just want a warm body. They don’t particularly care where it’s from....

 

[abolt18]

Wow michigan had open spots? I know they're one of the biggest programs in the country, if not the biggest, but it is such a great program with a top notch chair.

Yeah that surprised me! I wonder when that happened.

 

[DokterMom]

Yeah that surprised me! I wonder when that happened.

Could be they were being picky and knew they'd be able to attract the strongest candidates from the SOAP --

 

[AdmiralChz]

Wow michigan had open spots? I know they're one of the biggest programs in the country, if not the biggest, but it is such a great program with a top notch chair.

Yeah that surprised me! I wonder when that happened.

2013, 4 open categorical spots. Here’s the link: Main Residency Match Data and Reports - The Match, National Resident Matching Program

My point wasn’t really to call out individual programs but to show the OP that just because a program has an incomplete match doesn’t mean it’s a garbage program.

I was much more attracted to the southeast than the Midwest, which is one of the reasons I went with my program.

 

[Psai]

Could be they were being picky and knew they'd be able to attract the strongest candidates from the SOAP --

Any program that says that is full of **** full stop. They didn't fill because they didn't get or rank enough qualified candidates period.

You don't pass on a hottie that wants to get with you because there's a chance that someone who doesn't even like you will marry you later.

 

[parcus]

Maybe there are a few good programs on SOAP, but let's be honest here, you are not going to have much of a choice. On the bright side I think if you are a good opht candidate, SOAPing for a prelim spot and transitioning to an anesthesia program later on would likely yield good results if you are not able to find a good program.

 

[IlDestriero]

You can see what is available to soap into, but if you’re a good candidate and not delusional about Optho potential, do a research year and match into a good program.


--
Il Destriero

 

[DokterMom]

Any program that says that is full of **** full stop. They didn't fill because they didn't get or rank enough qualified candidates period.

You don't pass on a hottie that wants to get with you because there's a chance that someone who doesn't even like you will marry you later.

I'm not disagreeing with you -- Just suggesting that they set the bar a little higher than they probably should have, justifying the decision with a "pick of the SOAP" rationale.

 

[DocMcCoy]

In hindsight, SOAPing anesthesia honest to God might have been one of the greatest things to happen to me. My program is decent with awesome clinical training though I did have to relocate to an area I wasn’t that excited about. Got a great PP job lined up 1000 miles away from where i train with very little difficulty.

 

[BLADEMDA]

So let me spell this out for you:

You can be the worst Resident graduating from the worst residency in the country but still get a job with an AMC. Alternatively, you could be the best Resident from a top residency program like Mass General, Stanford, Duke, UCSF, B and W, Mayo, etc but still end up working for an AMC. The AMC won't care one bit as long as both "employees" become Board Certified. Both "employees" will likely be paid the same crappy salary with poor benefits.

That's why I recommend a fellowship because the job market (overall) is better for Cardiac or Peds vs "Generalists." Residency is what you make of it and no amount of training will get you "street smart" for the exploitation by the AMC.

 

[deleted873183]

As always, great advice from everyone. Thanks to all the residents/attendings that post on this forum!

 

[dchz]

Best of luck to you. Remember to take time to optimize your emotional and physical health. You're still gonna do tons of good and have a fulfilling life one way or another!