Kirby - Game Thread

[WildZoo]

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for a game where people said they weren’t going to use meta reads, you all filled a lot of space talking about the last game.

I only said I would try!

And i didn't try very hard

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

When in doubt, I went scum. I probably need to ISO Zenge and WildZoo especially, I feel like the Kirby icons and yellow sidebars are confusing me.

I appreciate you doing this. Your views of WildZoo, Zenge, and PSV are pretty counter-culture, so I'd like to hear more about those.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@potentialsheltervet and @genny reading each other as mafia is also something I'd like to see fleshed out more.

 

[WildZoo]

@Zenge142 why didn't you play the game??

@Zenge142 pls

 

[Zenge142]

I appreciate you doing this. Your views of WildZoo, Zenge, and PSV are pretty counter-culture, so I'd like to hear more about those.

Ooooof. I do not like this post Jimmy J

 

[Zenge142]

@Zenge142 pls

I didn’t understand it when it was happening. And then I did but it was over

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Ooooof. I do not like this post Jimmy J

Okee dokee. moonstermash is one of my most uncertain reads, and giving her a chance to expand on reads I disagree with might be the best way to get a better understanding of what she's about.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I didn’t understand it when it was happening. And then I did but it was over

Do you believe Dubz is mafia?

 

[genny]

I will however ask you, @genny, how you feel about the game right now given these reads?

well the busywork portion of the day was fun, but we should probably do some actual wolf hunting at some point. and by "we" i mean the rest of you, because i'm off to buy a bridge as the game's most gullible player.

 

[WildZoo]

Do you believe Dubz is mafia?

Ooooo

 

[holdthemayo]

Only on page 5, but this is the first thing that has really pinged me.

I’ve never played with this person before, but this feels like a power wolf move. Define the village bloc early and make sure it includes you.

If I can get a reliable SDN town read on Zenge, then that'd help to sort quite a lot for me at least for the time being. If I take Zenge as town, then I also take PSV as town (via Zenge's read), and I would only need two more names for a game-locking POE. Obviously the reads would need to be correct, but it's a start anyway.

samac
WildZoo
genny
Zenge
PSV

Seven correct town reads not including oneself locks the game.

 

[genny]

@potentialsheltervet and @genny reading each other as mafia is also something I'd like to see fleshed out more.

we're continuing a friendly rivalry. she can't read me worth beans, and i'm always sus of her.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Only on page 5, but this is the first thing that has really pinged me.

I’ve never played with this person before, but this feels like a power wolf move. Define the village bloc early and make sure it includes you.

I haven't believed a single thing this player has posted.

 

[holdthemayo]

Usual disclaimer:

I post as i catch up. Sorry if I repeat questions or ask you questions after you are dead or rage quit.

 

[holdthemayo]

I haven't believed a single thing this player has posted.

All 9 things?

Even the story?

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

All 9 things?

Even the story?

I don't buy the "town tingle" you gave samac, I don't buy you calling my attempt to collect town reads "defining an early bloc and ensuring I'm in it" (there's nothing to differentiate what I did from literally anyone building a POE), and I don't buy your reception of genny.

But please continue your catching up. I am short on posts anyway, so I will just continue to assess what you have to say.

 

[WildZoo]

Hehe Zenges angery

 

[genny]

Hehe Zenges angery

and not answering the question 🤔

 

[WildZoo]

and not answering the question 🤔

Yeah, he does that He's like, allergic to answering questions or something. Causes him to get all tomato-colored.

 

[Zenge142]

and not answering the question 🤔

The reading card is more of a curse. So much pressure to always be right

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The reading card is more of a curse. So much pressure to always be right

I don't care about the "reading card", so I am not demanding perfection. I am only curious of your present view, even if it is to change later.

 

[holdthemayo]

I don't buy the "town tingle" you gave samac, I don't buy you calling my attempt to collect town reads "defining an early bloc and ensuring I'm in it" (there's nothing to differentiate what I did from literally anyone building a POE), and I don't buy your reception of genny.

But please continue your catching up. I am short on posts anyway, so I will just continue to assess what you have to say.

What’s my reception of Gennny? Im not sure what that means.

As to the orher point

There’s a difference between laying out reads and declaring you’ve almost cracked the game if these five people stick with you. It pinged me so I shared.

By page 5 samac seemed like village samac. I have a very good record of reading her, but not usually that early in the game. Not sure why that’s confusing.

 

[holdthemayo]

This is the problem that I always have with interpreting champs delegate interactions in these prep games. There's at least a little plot armor because the goal is for you both to get some good practice. You can't do that if you're immediately dead.

Village knows that, wolves know that, so no one (except perhaps your counterpart) is going to come at you super hard in the first 48 hours.

I'm also reading you both as pretty village anyways fwiw.

I’ve complained about this a lot. Can’t really be fixed, but I’ll continue to complain with you.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What’s my reception of Gennny? Im not sure what that means.

As to the orher point

There’s a difference between laying out reads and declaring you’ve almost cracked the game if these five people stick with you. It pinged me so I shared.

By page 5 samac seemed like village samac. I have a very good record of reading her, but not usually that early in the game. Not sure why that’s confusing.

The "village tingle" language just looked fake. I also am doubtful that you'd answer her prompt for a snap read with a concrete "village" if you aren't sure (given how early it is in the game). I'd anticipate some kind of caveat or expansion or something. I'm also not certain this thread would contain "mayo town reads samac" if samac hadn't specifically prompted it.

I didn't even ask those five people to "stick with me". I named my town reads, and it is mathematically true that a game is cracked with seven correct town reads other than oneself. I acknowledged then that "correct" is the operative word, and that it serves only as a starting point.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Pippy/Nate/mayo might is my first guess for the mafia team.

I doubt that's 3/3, but it's where I sit right now. I'd be reasonably surprised if there isn't at least one mafia here.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Pippy/Nate/mayo might is my first guess for the mafia team.

I doubt that's 3/3, but it's where I sit right now. I'd be reasonably surprised if there isn't at least one mafia here.

correction: remove the "might" --> not a reference to the player "mighty" to be clear, just an error

 

[holdthemayo]

The "village tingle" language just looked fake. I also am doubtful that you'd answer her prompt for a snap read with a concrete "village" if you aren't sure (given how early it is in the game). I'd anticipate some kind of caveat or expansion or something. I'm also not certain this thread would contain "mayo town reads samac" if samac hadn't specifically prompted it.

I didn't even ask those five people to "stick with me". I named my town reads, and it is mathematically true that a game is cracked with seven correct town reads other than oneself. I acknowledged then that "correct" is the operative word, and that it serves only as a starting point.

What part of tingles on a snap read makes you interpret that as anything concrete or binding?
Tingles, as in a slight prickling sensation. As in, not that strong. Snap read, as in extemporaneous gut read.


You didn’t just say the fact that those maths crack the game. You then laid out the bloc to do it with. Struck me as a power wolfy thing to do. It was the first thing that stood out to me. Not a vote for you. You’ve been very defensive about and attacked me saying I can’t be trusted.

It’s interesting.

I would still like to know what you meant by the genny thing, because I’m not sure what that was referring to.

 

[motheatenlysis]

@DrWilgy pls. You and @potentialsheltervet read WAY too much into some early **** posts of mine. You took it as a slip when it’s just me being a dumb n00b. The way you’re both pushing feels a bit howly to me.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What part of tingles on a snap read makes you interpret that as anything concrete or binding?
Tingles, as in a slight prickling sensation. As in, not that strong. Snap read, as in extemporaneous gut read.


You didn’t just say the fact that those maths crack the game. You then laid out the bloc to do it with. Struck me as a power wolfy thing to do. It was the first thing that stood out to me. Not a vote for you. You’ve been very defensive about and attacked me saying I can’t be trusted.

It’s interesting.

I would still like to know what you meant by the genny thing, because I’m not sure what that was referring to.

You were my top suspect before you dropped that on me, so I acknowledge my view comes with that bias.

Regarding genny, I thought you also looked fake with the “counterpoint: genny gonna genny” post. I spoke of it more earlier. I have to step away for now, but you probably have it in your notifications somewhere.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Day 1 Yeet Tally
Zenge (1) - mayo 17
Pippy (2) - Zenge 89, Wilgy 77
mayo (4) - Pippy 50, JJJ 118, Nate 15, moon 34
samac () -
moth (1) - PSV 51
dubz () -
JJJ (1) - mighty 17
Nate (4) - genny 49, samac 102, Boq 77, dubz 107
Wilgy (1) - moth 62

14/15
yeet close in ~7.5 hours

 

[holdthemayo]

You were my top suspect before you dropped that on me, so I acknowledge my view comes with that bias.

Regarding genny, I thought you also looked fake with the “counterpoint: genny gonna genny” post. I spoke of it more earlier. I have to step away for now, but you probably have it in your notifications somewhere.

Genny was saying that me writing a story or flipping a coin for my opening vote between the nominees was NAI.

I was agreeing with her. I would have done that regardless of affiliation.

I said I was going to do the coin thing in the sign up thread.

Admittedly the story was unplanned. But, when the daughters of Mnemosyne offer a gift, who am I to refuse?

 

[samac]

Some thoughts about this information:

~ If anyone is interested in comparing this to another exercise of its kind, refer to Time to Get a WWatch -- two mafia participated (Animal Midwife and santygrass). That one went belly-up, because both of those mafia were universally town read within the exercise. To be clear: it normally doesn't work that way, and I have probably done this 25-30 times. That was an outlier, but it is possible.

~ To get a gauge of reads similarity, here's how much each player differs from each other player, not including reads on one another, see below. The colors are meaningless other than to separate levels.

Spoiler

Boq <--> JJJ (2 differences)*
WildZoo <--> JJJ (2 differences)
samac <--> genny (4 differences)
samac <--> DrWilgy (4 differences)**
samac <--> JJJ (4 differences)
samac <--> WildZoo (5 differences)*
Boq <--> WildZoo (5 differences)
Boq <--> samac (5 differences)
Boq <--> DrWilgy (5 differences)
genny <--> JJJ (5 differences)
genny <--> WildZoo (6 differences)
DrWilgy <--> WildZoo (6 differences)
Boq <--> genny (6 differences)*
DrWilgy <--> JJJ (6 differences)
DrWilgy <--> genny (7 differences)

One asterisk means that one player in the pair reads the other as mafia. Two asterisks mean they read each other as mafia.

I'm not actually sure what the above information means, as I have only looked this closely on a few occasions. It might be interesting to review after the game at least, in case trends emerge for next time. This was difficult to count, and there's a good chance I goofed something somewhere. I present this all anyway, because it is possible that someone else gleans something interesting from it, or that it inspires a productive dialogue.

~ genny registers as the most "trusting" player in the exercise. In the past this was something I viewed as concerning, because an early trend with this exercise showed mafia town reading the most people (or close to the most). However that trend has kind of become null in more recent memory. So I won't take that anywhere. I will however ask you, @genny, how you feel about the game right now given these reads? I wouldn't have pegged you as the person most likely to have the most town reads, and it'd be super to get a better understanding of your general view of things and your confidence level about where you ended up in this exercise.

~ DrWilgy registers as the most "paranoid", which is reasonably on-brand for what I expect of him given our past experience playing together. His reads deviate from the consensus pretty frequently (you can see his name concentrated mostly toward the bottom of the list in the spoiler). I think that if we pair this with the fact that he was a consensus town read (4-1), that's a little bit reassuring. He clearly hasn't earned his keep by blending into any broader consensus -- he is solving his own way and has seemed authentic in the process.

~ samac broke from consensus twice: DrWilgy and Zenge (she was the only to read either of them as mafia). That doesn't have to be a problem, but it is noteworthy. She's spoken about the Zenge read already, and I won't continue to pester on that front. The Wilgy read interests me though, because the two of them were somewhat similar in their views (granting that 4 different reads is still a decent number). @samac, if you haven't already I'd appreciate hearing more about your feelings regarding DrWilgy.

~ @Boquise, your read of me follows in that spirit (viewing me as mafia despite strong alignment in our reads). I acknowledge you'd said before that you'd prefer to wait on dealing with me until the time comes to yeet me into the sun etc, and that the exercise demands a stance -- nonetheless I'd appreciate if you could try to describe how you ended up there.

~ Most important general notes about the process here: this thing isn't meant to find the most consensus suspect and turbo-chop them, and nor is it meant to define permanence in any reads or restrict teamwork. Just because the six people that participated in this exercise agree mostly or entirely on whatever doesn't mean everyone else would agree. Likewise, any suspicion derived from this exercise about the people that took part in it should be considered with avoidance of the base-rate neglect fallacy. However likely someone may appear to be mafia emerging from this thing, that doesn't account for the number of mafia that participated in it (which could be zero, or it could be three, or it could be anything in between). Be mindful.

I might have more to say as I continue to chew on this stuff. This post is already too big though, so let's just get on with it. Here, have a wall.

I felt his interactions with me were somewhat twisty and trying to fit a narrative

 

[samac]

I didn’t understand it when it was happening. And then I did but it was over

This has happened before though? Was it watch?

The reading card is more of a curse. So much pressure to always be right

Gimme something pls

The "village tingle" language just looked fake. I also am doubtful that you'd answer her prompt for a snap read with a concrete "village" if you aren't sure (given how early it is in the game). I'd anticipate some kind of caveat or expansion or something. I'm also not certain this thread would contain "mayo town reads samac" if samac hadn't specifically prompted it.

I didn't even ask those five people to "stick with me". I named my town reads, and it is mathematically true that a game is cracked with seven correct town reads other than oneself. I acknowledged then that "correct" is the operative word, and that it serves only as a starting point.

I wanted his thoughts on thread. He believes he has a very good read on me and I remember him saying it after pasta. If he’s a wolf and Wolfpack narrative is to misyeet me I suspected he’d go with the there’s some samac concern that’s been floating on thread. The fact that he didn’t means like if he is a wolf they’re not pushing me or he’s village.

@DrWilgy pls. You and @potentialsheltervet read WAY too much into some early **** posts of mine. You took it as a slip when it’s just me being a dumb n00b. The way you’re both pushing feels a bit howly to me.

so I usually like to eat noobs. Why do I like you so much? You just feel very village-y.

Genny was saying that me writing a story or flipping a coin for my opening vote between the nominees was NAI.

I was agreeing with her. I would have done that regardless of affiliation.

I said I was going to do the coin thing in the sign up thread.

Admittedly the story was unplanned. But, when the daughters of Mnemosyne offer a gift, who am I to refuse?

The story felt more village mayo than wolf mayo imo but what do I know

 

[Boquise]

i have a halloumi poké bowl so therefore i am the winner of this thread tbh

 

[supershorty]

i have a halloumi poké bowl so therefore i am the winner of this thread tbh

pics or it didn't happen

 

[Zenge142]

Was it watch?

I was modding

 

[Zenge142]

This has happened before though? Was it watch?

Gimme something pls

I wanted his thoughts on thread. He believes he has a very good read on me and I remember him saying it after pasta. If he’s a wolf and Wolfpack narrative is to misyeet me I suspected he’d go with the there’s some samac concern that’s been floating on thread. The fact that he didn’t means like if he is a wolf they’re not pushing me or he’s village.

so I usually like to eat noobs. Why do I like you so much? You just feel very village-y.

The story felt more village mayo than wolf mayo imo but what do I know

Why are you village reading Dubz?

 

[holdthemayo]

Also, allow me to add Moonster, why 😒 ?

Do I as wolf chime in, drop a vote and exclaim that it comes from a wolfy perspective?

Is it weird for moonshine to ask you why you voted there? Wouldn’t you want to build your case against pippy to convince others to vote with you?

 

[Boquise]

pics or it didn't happen

you reacted way too fast on that post lmao

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@samac I tend to doubt that the mafia would view this game thread as an ideal climate to push you if you’re town. I think it’s more likely they ignore you or just concede a town read. You’ve only caught a little suspicion, but the broader trend is town reads.

 

[holdthemayo]

Is it weird for moonshine to ask you why you voted there? Wouldn’t you want to build your case against pippy to convince others to vote with you?

May have misinterpreted that interaction

 

[samac]

Why are you village reading Dubz?

so gun to the head I lean more village than wolf with her pressure and confusion on me after pasta and I am not playing in my usual power village standard, it felt genuine, but I guess would be easy for a wolf to point out.
She’s more in my null stack

 

[samac]

@samac I tend to doubt that the mafia would view this game thread as an ideal climate to push you if you’re town. I think it’s more likely they ignore you or just concede a town read. You’ve only caught a little suspicion, but the broader trend is town reads.

That would be the wolf pack not pushing me option if mayo is a wolf but it doesn’t change that I lean towards mayo being village. It’s been quite a while since I’ve played with him.

You got 1’post left friendo

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Genny was saying that me writing a story or flipping a coin for my opening vote between the nominees was NAI.

I was agreeing with her. I would have done that regardless of affiliation.

I said I was going to do the coin thing in the sign up thread.

Admittedly the story was unplanned. But, when the daughters of Mnemosyne offer a gift, who am I to refuse?

I have no problem with the story. I view it as irrelevant to alignment, so I’m on board there. The bit about genny carried a certain discrediting power though (whether deliberately or not), and that was what bugged me. It could translate to:

Yes, genny is technically correct that the story is NAI. mayo gonna mayo. But also, genny gonna genny, so let’s disregard her take

 

[holdthemayo]

There’s not a village meta of we’re village we fight, just that when we disagree on D1 it’s historically been village. I wasn’t thinking about that when I questioned him but when he came back asking me if I was furry I was like oooooh
If we’re both village per usual I hoped someone would see it as an opportunity to pile on one of us onto the other one to try and set up a misyeet. But no one did. And I don’t know if that makes zenge more wolfy like okay maybe I was onto something because his packmate wouldn’t join him or if they just left us alone hoping we’d eat each other. Does that make sense?

Is your D1 read of zenges usually the opposite of reality, or only when you are VV?

 

[Boquise]

@JaggedJimmyJay why i put you in a wolf read, a short story written by B. Boquise, esquire.
Title: It is not me, it is you.

I am wary of you, naturally. Last time we played you were indeed a wolf, and during D1 you were very agreeable and amiable. In a gun to the head situation, I rather say wolf when I am not 100% sure you are town. There is nothing in your posts that stick out as wolfy to me. However, I know you range. I also have observed that the majority of your pushes have been on LHF and, unless I have missed something, very little scrutiny against the high posters/solvers. I am a hypocrite here, because I have decided to "town read" the solvers for now tbh. But still. The mayo stuff? The posts I have read are completely NAI and it is a classic Mafia Championship thing to push the "weirdos"/doesnt fit in with the thread folks during D1 and D2. Right now those people are Mayo, Mothy and Pippy (the latter is someone I myself scum read). I expect a focus on those players by folks whom have not experienced many a champ battle. I have higher expectations from your town game, however.

So I am aware that this might be you towning, genuinely trying to solve those slots, but I am also aware that this might be you wolfing, aiming for the players who have the hardest time forming a defence and the lowest risk of raising eyebrows when pushed. It is a respect read as much as it is a profile read tbh.

 

[Boquise]

ever since Katze edited Ben Shapiro's face into my avi and added one of my S8 posts as a feigned Shapiro quoted, I can't but not hear Shapiro's voice as I type and read my own words. It is very annoying and I don't know how to escape this curse tbh

 

[Boquise]

Rn I feel like the pros in reading JJJ as town and work together vastly outweights the cons, like being duped. So I will not vote JJJ or voice concerns for a long while unless he posts something I think is slam dunk scummy tbh

 

[samac]

Is your D1 read of zenges usually the opposite of reality, or only when you are VV?

I don’t usually read him day 1 because I don’t trust myself. I often just find him weird day 1 regardless of his affiliation and then then I get it a little clearer once we have some flips.
Historically though when we Sus each other and argue it has been V/V

 

[holdthemayo]

I have no problem with the story. I view it as irrelevant to alignment, so I’m on board there. The bit about genny carried a certain discrediting power though (whether deliberately or not), and that was what bugged me. It could translate to:

Yes, genny is technically correct that the story is NAI. mayo gonna mayo. But also, genny gonna genny, so let’s disregard her take

It was more, “I’m going to do the same antics regardless of affiliation and gennny is going to point out that people should ignore it from a gameplay perspective.”

I think you took a joke post more seriously than was intended. We haven’t played together before. I also didn’t make many (any?) content posts yesterday because i hadn’t read the thread yet, so it’s understandable.