saayyraahh

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So my application was sent to LECOM-Erie in the middle of August without an MCAT score because I just took the MCAT Aug 21st. So when they screened my application obviously I was put on hold. I got an email notifying me that my application was screened out because my MCAT was either to low or because it wasn't included and that if I truly didn't have an MCAT score that I could apply with my SAT scores and they would evaluate me with the Academic Index Score system. Has anyone heard anything about this or gone through this system before? I can't decide whether to be evaluated now based on my SAT scores from high school that were decent or wait for my MCAT scores and see how I did.

Edit: please DO NOT leave any unnecessary opinions about how you feel LECOM is running their admissions. I'm only looking for helpful information that can help me make a decision that will allow me to succeed in my path to becoming a physician.
 
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It could be a positive if instead of just replacing the mcat they allowed you to use other tests as counter-evidence for a lower mcat. Like if your mcat scores aren't super amazing, but enough to demonstrate that you can be successful in medical school, and other tests you've taken demonstrate your ability to do well on standardized testing, then it'd be great if they could be included in the evaluation process too.

The mcat is a good metric to have, but so many hairs are split in admissions, especially at MD schools where the difference between how a 29 and 30 are viewed is huge. Anything to offset that sort of viewing would be amazing.
wouldnt it be the opposite? If you did poorly on the SAT it would say you suck at taking standardized tests which would explain a poor MCAT
 

Gandyy

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It could be a positive if instead of just replacing the mcat they allowed you to use other tests as counter-evidence for a lower mcat. Like if your mcat scores aren't super amazing, but enough to demonstrate that you can be successful in medical school, and other tests you've taken demonstrate your ability to do well on standardized testing, then it'd be great if they could be included in the evaluation process too.

The mcat is a good metric to have, but so many hairs are split in admissions, especially at MD schools where the difference between how a 29 and 30 are viewed is huge. Anything to offset that sort of viewing would be amazing.
Yea, but they arent going to. They simply want to replace the MCAT in place of this academic index score.

Its not fair to the other applicants who are vying for LECOM as one of their main schools. The MCAT is an insanely hard test. No one should get a free pass if the rest of us have to get through the test.

An academic index score? It makes me sick to the stomach. I usually dont make statements with strong opinions, but this is just a ridiculous thing.

Plus the difference between a 29 and 30 isnt really equivalent to the difference between taking the MCAT and not taking the MCAT.


But you are right about the 29 - 30 thing. its so ridiculous that people will group a 27 and a 29 in as the same catgeory but then a 30 is so much better than a 29?

There is a 6 percentile difference between a 29 and 30. There is a 12 percentile difference between a 29 and 27. To illustrate how ridiculous this line of thinking is, a 31 (which is literally the MD school matriculant average) is 10 percentile greater than a 29. yet a 27 and 29 = same thing in the eyes of many. #MedSchoolAdmissions
 
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I got an email regarding this and I was pretty confused myself. The first time I took the MCAT I got a 495 and plan on retaking it September.
However, if I can send in my ACT score and that would be good enough why not try it, right? Especially since it is rolling admissions.

I'm just not too sure what would be considered a competitive ACT score and GPA combined.
I have a 3.2 cGPA and 3.5 sGPA with a 25 on the ACT.
 

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It could be a positive if instead of just replacing the mcat they allowed you to use other tests as counter-evidence for a lower mcat. Like if your mcat scores aren't super amazing, but enough to demonstrate that you can be successful in medical school, and other tests you've taken demonstrate your ability to do well on standardized testing, then it'd be great if they could be included in the evaluation process too.

The mcat is a good metric to have, but so many hairs are split in admissions, especially at MD schools where the difference between how a 29 and 30 are viewed is huge. Anything to offset that sort of viewing would be amazing.
Especially when that one point difference is in VR :(
 
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DrEnderW

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It could be a positive if instead of just replacing the mcat they allowed you to use other tests as counter-evidence for a lower mcat. Like if your mcat scores aren't super amazing, but enough to demonstrate that you can be successful in medical school, and other tests you've taken demonstrate your ability to do well on standardized testing, then it'd be great if they could be included in the evaluation process too.

The mcat is a good metric to have, but so many hairs are split in admissions, especially at MD schools where the difference between how a 29 and 30 are viewed is huge. Anything to offset that sort of viewing would be amazing.
If you can't get your stuff together enough to take the MCAT and get a pretty low score on it (average-slightly above avg for all undergrads taking it) to get into a DO school there is SERIOUS doubt you'll be able to get it together for Step 1.

The MCAT is such a relatively small, forgettable hurdle compared to Step 1 it's almost not comparable. All 3rd year exams are national standardized exams. You have 3 Step/Level exams all 8hrs and 400 questions for DOs. It's the nature of the game. Dodging the MCAT is not how you make sure you're ready for the 10+ formal national exams in the med school residency path.

Cutoffs exist in med school. For example, programs that require a 600+ on COMLEX, the couple questions on the shelf that bump you from Honors on your surgery shelf when you want a surgical career, the in school exams that keep you from AOA/SSP, etc.

You can't show your other metrics of success when you don't get the test scores for your specialty. What happens is that you don't match. Also, unlike the MCAT, it's one and done with no retakes and no voids.
 

Gandyy

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If you can't get your stuff together enough to take the MCAT and get a pretty low score on it (average-slightly above avg for all undergrads taking it) to get into a DO school there is SERIOUS doubt you'll be able to get it together for Step 1.

The MCAT is such a relatively small, forgettable hurdle compared to Step 1 it's almost not comparable. All 3rd year exams are national standardized exams. You have 3 Step/Level exams all 8hrs and 400 questions for DOs. It's the nature of the game. Dodging the MCAT is not how you make sure you're ready for the 10+ formal national exams in the med school residency path.

Cutoffs exist in med school. For example, programs that require a 600+ on COMLEX, the couple questions on the shelf that bump you from Honors on your surgery shelf when you want a surgical career, the in school exams that keep you from AOA/SSP, etc.

You can't show your other metrics of success when you don't get the test scores for your specialty. What happens is that you don't match. Also, unlike the MCAT, it's one and done with no retakes and no voids.
Yep, which is why this academic score index thing makes LECOM look pretty bad to me.
 
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Yep, which is why this academic score index thing makes LECOM look pretty bad to me.
LECOM is a pretty Fascist school, you really cannot trust a school that makes its campus look like Cyberdyne from Terminator 2. I have friend at the Erie Campus, they cannot even walk in that main glass part of the building or they can get into really big trouble. The school's administration is like the government of Panem.
 

Gandyy

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LECOM is a pretty Fascist school, you really cannot trust a school that makes its campus look like Cyberdyne from Terminator 2. I have friend at the Erie Campus, they cannot even walk in that main glass part of the building or they can get into really big trouble. The school's administration is like the government of Panem.
Jeez. I guess if its the only place you get into though, then you gotta go.
 
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Jeez. I guess if its the only place you get into though, then you gotta go.
I was talking about the glass building on their prospectus, they force students to enter through the back, as a student you can never enter the glass area EVER. If you do security will remove you and wind up meeting the Dean. Erie also is not a very nice town.

AZCOM is way better, professors are actual human beings, you can wear T-shirts, bring food to class. You study hard, but are not subject to some strange neo Fascist rules like LECOM students. Also San Diego is four hours away by car or a Southwest plane ride away.
 

Gandyy

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I was talking about the glass building on their prospectus, they force students to enter through the back, as a student you can never enter the glass area EVER. If you do security will remove you and wind up meeting the Dean. Erie also is not a very nice town.

AZCOM is way better, professors are actual human beings, you can wear T-shirts, bring food to class. You study hard, but are not subject to some strange neo Fascist rules like LECOM students. Also San Diego is four hours away by car or a Southwest plane ride away.
yea, well about that AZCOM interview.... hehe.
 
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Toyota Camry is a great car! Average person knows what it is and its one of the most sought after cars for its quality to price ratio.
Dr. Goeppinger, the CEO of Midwestern, is earning her salary for sure, she seems to be working hard for her money making sure both CCOM and AZCOM are solid schools, in many ways AZCOM is surpassing CCOM.

Great facilities, top notch preparation for the boards, they are more organized than Al Capone, the weather here is hot but at least its not cloudy, rainy or cold, and most of all they made the school look presentable that you can bring your family and show the school, its not on top of some 99 cents store like some other schools.
 

Gandyy

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Dr. Goeppinger, the CEO of Midwestern, is earning her salary for sure, she seems to be working hard for her money making sure both CCOM and AZCOM are solid schools, in many ways AZCOM is surpassing CCOM.

Great facilities, top notch preparation for the boards, they are more organized than Al Capone, the weather here is hot but at least its not cloudy, rainy or cold, and most of all they made the school look presentable that you can bring your family and show the school, its not on top of some 99 cents store like some other schools.
I had Dr. Middleton as my interviewer. It was a panel interview so there were more people, but she kind of led the discussion. She was a very nice lady and seemed like a genuine person. My issue with the interview though is that I feel as if I did not get to fully speak about my meaningful experiences. They had a strict time limit it seemed for everyone to be out of the interview in 30 mins or less.
 
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I had Dr. Middleton as my interviewer. It was a panel interview so there were more people, but she kind of led the discussion. She was a very nice lady and seemed like a genuine person. My issue with the interview though is that I feel as if I did not get to fully speak about my meaningful experiences. They had a strict time limit it seemed for everyone to be out of the interview in 30 mins or less.
You got a good interviewer, I am sure you did well.
 

j4pac

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Yea, but they arent going to. They simply want to replace the MCAT in place of this academic index score.

Its not fair to the other applicants who are vying for LECOM as one of their main schools. The MCAT is an insanely hard test. No one should get a free pass if the rest of us have to get through the test.

An academic index score? It makes me sick to the stomach. I usually dont make statements with strong opinions, but this is just a ridiculous thing.

Plus the difference between a 29 and 30 isnt really equivalent to the difference between taking the MCAT and not taking the MCAT.


But you are right about the 29 - 30 thing. its so ridiculous that people will group a 27 and a 29 in as the same catgeory but then a 30 is so much better than a 29?

There is a 6 percentile difference between a 29 and 30. There is a 12 percentile difference between a 29 and 27. To illustrate how ridiculous this line of thinking is, a 31 (which is literally the MD school matriculant average) is 10 percentile greater than a 29. yet a 27 and 29 = same thing in the eyes of many. #MedSchoolAdmissions
Is the point of the MCAT to be a rite of passage or an indicator of medical school success? LECOM apparently believes that the MCAT (especially the new and improved MCAT) has a very poor relation to medical school success. So, knowing this, should they continue to treat MCAT with the same level of importance? You remind me of Jerry Jones basing his entire draft around how fast a player runs the 40.

If you feel miss treated, you need to put on your big boy pants and suck it up. LECOM doesn't care about your opinion.
 

Gandyy

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Is the point of the MCAT to be a rite of passage or an indicator of medical school success? LECOM apparently believes that the MCAT (especially the new and improved MCAT) has a very poor relation to medical school success. So, knowing this, should they continue to treat MCAT with the same level of importance? You remind me of Jerry Jones basing his entire draft around how fast a player runs the 40.

If you feel miss treated, you need to put on your big boy pants and suck it up. LECOM doesn't care about your opinion.
You are just saying all that because you went to LECOM-B.

I'm saying its ridiculous for a single medical school campus to bypass such a huge exam.

Not only are they taking out the MCAT for this academic index score, but they are using the ACT or SAT as indicators of medical school success. In what world does that not sound completely outrageous to you?
 
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ortnakas

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You are just saying all that because you went to LECOM-B.

I'm saying its ridiculous for a single medical school campus to bypass such a huge exam.

Not only are they taking out the MCAT for this academic index score, but they are using the ACT or SAT as indicators of medical school success. In what world does that not sound completely outrageous to you?
It's not any more ridiculous than linkage programs that accept high school seniors without an MCAT or a college GPA... and some pretty prestigious MD schools have those.

I'm not saying it's the best plan ever, or that I even support it, but I'm guessing the powers that be have some sort of data to back up their index score system. Also, I haven't read anywhere that they'd prefer that to the MCAT-- they may be accepting applications without it, but still hope to see a score, and I guarantee they'll still favor someone who rocked the MCAT over someone who only rocked the ACT.
 

Gandyy

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It's not any more ridiculous than linkage programs that accept high school seniors without an MCAT or a college GPA... and some pretty prestigious MD schools have those.

I'm not saying it's the best plan ever, or that I even support it, but I'm guessing the powers that be have some sort of data to back up their index score system. Also, I haven't read anywhere that they'd prefer that to the MCAT-- they may be accepting applications without it, but still hope to see a score, and I guarantee they'll still favor someone who rocked the MCAT over someone who only rocked the ACT.
Yes, but high school students who bypass the MCAT are also competing with the cream of the crop high school students for the highly selective BS/MD spots. I am also applying to DO schools as well, but I do not think that I am the "cream of the crop." The cream of the crop applies to only top tier MD and mid tier MD schools. So you have to compare it to people who are applying there, not to LECOM. I agree its BS, but you cant compare that because those people are at a totally different stage in their lives. You dont see any BS/MD programs bypassing the ACT or SAT do you?

I think they are both total BS. BS/MD programs are ridiculous too. But so is this index score.

The MCAT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ACT/SAT in terms of difficulty.

I made a 97-99 percentile ACT score, but I made a garbage percentile score on the MCAT.

I studied for the ACT for about .00001 hours. I studied for the MCAT for 3.5 months.

Its not even remotely close at all. ACT/SAT are a joke. Think about the demographic that takes the ACT. A ton of those kids are just taking it for "completion" so they can go to a college. People fall asleep during the ACT... literally.

The demographic that takes the MCAT is all people who are vying for medical school.. not a bunch of immature high school children. Its a totally different planet.
 
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So my application was sent to LECOM-Erie in the middle of August without an MCAT score because I just took the MCAT Aug 21st. So when they screened my application obviously I was put on hold. I got an email notifying me that my application was screened out because my MCAT was either to low or because it wasn't included and that if I truly didn't have an MCAT score that I could apply with my SAT scores and they would evaluate me with the Academic Index Score system. Has anyone heard anything about this or gone through this system before? I can't decide whether to be evaluated now based on my SAT scores from high school that were decent or wait for my MCAT scores and see how I did.

Edit: please DO NOT leave any unnecessary opinions about how you feel LECOM is running their admissions. I'm only looking for helpful information that can help me make a decision that will allow me to succeed in my path to becoming a physician.
Being in Erie for 2 years then your choice of either Cleveland, Detroit, or Pittsburgh is bad enough. Ever saw the movie "The Road"? It was filmed near LECOM Erie. The Road is kind a more realistic version of the Hunger Games, its more realistic in a sense that the post apocalyptic society is in complete chaos, that and all the good guys die at the end of the film.
 

Gandyy

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Being in Erie for 2 years then a your choice of either Cleveland, Detroit, or Pittsburgh is bad enough. Ever saw the movie "The Road"? It was filmed near LECOM Erie.
Man, I would really like to get into AZCOM. I check my phone constantly everyday for "the call". I've been dreading checking my email now because I dont want to see "the email."
 

StudyLater

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Wait wait wait what? They'd accept your SAT in lieu of MCAT???

**** I should have applied there months ago then.
 
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Wait wait wait what? They'd accept your SAT in lieu of MCAT???

**** I should have applied there months ago then.
LECOM is probably the most corporate of any medical school in the United States, just look at their schools, I think only their extension campus, the third one near Pittsburgh looks like an inviting campus, the other two, the one in Erie and the other in Florida look like the Cyberdyne building from Terminator 2, they look like they are building T800s rather than doctors.
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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I would say something about COCA, but I gave up half way through this sentence.
 
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I would say something about COCA, but I gave up half way through this sentence.
I am thinking LECOM is dumping the MCAT because of the new format, apparently they are no longer testing Physical Sciences, Chemistry and Physics on the exam. The new test seems like an amplified SAT.
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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I am thinking LECOM is dumping the MCAT because of the new format, apparently they are no longer testing Physical Sciences, Chemistry and Physics on the exam. The new test seems like an amplified SAT.
Wait... are you sure about that?

I mean admittedly and I'll be entirely fair the removal of the PS section is probably an advancement since I always considered it to be somewhat irrelevant. But double check that if you can, I think they still have a PS section.
 
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Wait... are you sure about that?

I mean admittedly and I'll be entirely fair the removal of the PS section is probably an advancement since I always considered it to be somewhat irrelevant. But double check that if you can, I think they still have a PS section.
They are talking about it in the Allopathic section they took out the Physical Sciences, and the new MCAT is more of a General Knowledge test.
 
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I am thinking LECOM is dumping the MCAT because of the new format, apparently they are no longer testing Physical Sciences, Chemistry and Physics on the exam. The new test seems like an amplified SAT.
You really need to fact check yourself more often.

https://www.aamc.org/students/services/343550/mcat2015.html

What’s on the MCAT2015 Exam? Chemical and Physical Foundations of Biological Systems
These are the approximate percentages of questions you’ll see on a test for each discipline, foundational concept, and scientific inquiry and reasoning skill.*
Discipline:
First-semester biochemistry, 25%
Introductory biology, 5%
General chemistry, 30%
Organic chemistry, 15%
Introductory physics, 25%
 

RustBeltOnc

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Is the point of the MCAT to be a rite of passage or an indicator of medical school success? LECOM apparently believes that the MCAT (especially the new and improved MCAT) has a very poor relation to medical school success. So, knowing this, should they continue to treat MCAT with the same level of importance? You remind me of Jerry Jones basing his entire draft around how fast a player runs the 40.

If you feel miss treated, you need to put on your big boy pants and suck it up. LECOM doesn't care about your opinion.
I have stated before, back in the day, you didnt need the MCAT to attend Hopkins. They looked at your transcript and college GPA. You can easily predict someone's MCAT score from this and the GPA tells you about the work ethic.

I don't have a problem with this. I think that many of us who survived the ABIM MOC shenanigans are increasingly skeptical of the cottage industry of excessive standardized testing and as junior faculty, if involved in medical school admissions, would consider revisiting the requirement of MCAT.
 

StudyLater

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LECOM is probably the most corporate of any medical school in the United States, just look at their schools, I think only their extension campus, the third one near Pittsburgh looks like an inviting campus, the other two, the one in Erie and the other in Florida look like the Cyberdyne building from Terminator 2, they look like they are building T800s rather than doctors.
@Seth Joo The Lord wants us to get rich as hell off the aspirations of young medical students. He told us so.
 

GypsyHummus

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I passed the ASI and received secondary invite, so I am all for LECOM doing this!
 
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LECOM-B is definitely bland on the inside for sure. Still a good school I guess, but the sterility of the building (among other annoying rules) turns a lot of people off and rightly so. I wish LECOM and LECOM-B were more obviously separated on this forum as they seem like 2 very different schools. Its likely that LECOM isn't going to consider MCATless students very highly, but a lot more people will apply, which means more $$$ for the school. Maybe they can buy some paintings with the cash. :)

I personally don't think the MCAT is a very good indicator of success, but I still think everyone should take it to get in.
 

AzizImSorry

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LECOM-B is definitely bland on the inside for sure. Still a good school I guess, but the sterility of the building (among other annoying rules) turns a lot of people off and rightly so. I wish LECOM and LECOM-B were more obviously separated on this forum as they seem like 2 very different schools. Its likely that LECOM isn't going to consider MCATless students very highly, but a lot more people will apply, which means more $$$ for the school. Maybe they can buy some paintings with the cash. :)

I personally don't think the MCAT is a very good indicator of success, but I still think everyone should take it to get in.
Why do you think everyone should take it to get in if you don't think it's a good indicator of success? Why would a med school care at all about the fact that you took the MCAT or what your score is if it didn't correlate to something?
 
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Why do you think everyone should take it to get in if you don't think it's a good indicator of success? Why would a med school care at all about the fact that you took the MCAT or what your score is if it didn't correlate to something?

because its one of many indicators that should be considered even though its not a great one. What I'm trying to say is that I don't believe there is one really good indicator of success in medical school, but the MCAT is often looked at as such. Its one of the many things to consider in the application. I think just taking the MCAT is a filter in the least. Many students who were pre-med decided not to go into medicine because they were frustrated by the MCAT process(could actually be a bad thing, but medicine is all about exams). There does need to be some sort of standard exam that puts everybody on an equal playing field. The SAT is one of those exams but by the time students are applying to med schools that exam is 4 years old and the applicant could have changed dramatically since then. I'm certainly not the person I was 4 years ago.

I don't believe the MCAT is a good predictor but i recognize the need for a standardized exam. The fact that people can and do take the MCAT multiple (5+)times negates their authenticity anyway.
 

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Yep, which is why this academic score index thing makes LECOM look pretty bad to me.
Wait wait wait what? They'd accept your SAT in lieu of MCAT???

**** I should have applied there months ago then.
Calm down people. LECOM isn't accepting SATs and ACTs in lieu of MCATs, it's saying that if you want they can calculate an academic indicator based on other standardized tests that way they don't just evaluate you based on a low MCAT. You still have to submit an MCAT. All DO schools require an MCAT.

The only exception might be that you can get an interview (note that it doesn't say acceptance) for the APA program without an MCAT. That's it.
 
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Gandyy

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Calm down people. LECOM isn't accepting SATs and ACTs in lieu of MCATs, it's saying that if you want they can calculate an academic indicator based on other standardized tests that way they don't just evaluate you based on a low MCAT. You still have to submit an MCAT. All DO schools require an MCAT.

The only exception might be that you can get an interview (note that it doesn't say acceptance) for the APA program without an MCAT. That's it.
I see. Thats different then.

Do you go to LECOM?
 

GypsyHummus

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Calm down people. LECOM isn't accepting SATs and ACTs in lieu of MCATs, it's saying that if you want they can calculate an academic indicator based on other standardized tests that way they don't just evaluate you based on a low MCAT. You still have to submit an MCAT. All DO schools require an MCAT.

The only exception might be that you can get an interview (note that it doesn't say acceptance) for the APA program without an MCAT. That's it.
The way the admission lady described it, apparently you either need a 23 MCAT or the academic index score minimum (AIS) to qualify for an interview and acceptance.

So, could you have a 19 MCAT, pass the AIS and get accepted?
 
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Gandyy

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I have stated before, back in the day, you didnt need the MCAT to attend Hopkins. They looked at your transcript and college GPA. You can easily predict someone's MCAT score from this and the GPA tells you about the work ethic.

I don't have a problem with this. I think that many of us who survived the ABIM MOC shenanigans are increasingly skeptical of the cottage industry of excessive standardized testing and as junior faculty, if involved in medical school admissions, would consider revisiting the requirement of MCAT.
Wait are you saying that you can easily determine someone's MCAT score from their GPA? So you are saying that if you have a 4.0 gpa, you should do extremely well on the MCAT? Or am I misunderstanding you?
 

hallowmann

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The way the admission lady described it, apparently you either need a 23 MCAT or the academic index score minimum (AIS) to qualify for an interview and acceptance.

So, could you have a 19 MCAT, pass the AIS and get accepted?
I guess it might be possible, but realistically I think it's impossible. They might say over and over that all you need it a AIS above x, but I'm pretty sure they're still looking at MCAT score. Plus it's not clear what the AIS actually is, so depending on the weighting, it may not even be possible to reach the minimum AIS with a 19 MCAT.

Bottomline, don't rely on this as some secret way to get into med school with <22 on the MCAT. It isn't. Average LECOM MCAT is (or I guess was 3 yrs ago) 27. Most people fall between 24-30.
 
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May 13, 2015
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The average MCAT is a little over 28 now. I still think this is just a money making scheme that also allows LECOM to have an inflated application to matriculation ratio next year.
 

Gandyy

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Do either o fyou go to LECOM B? if so, can you guys tell me some stuff about the school?
 

StudyLater

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@Gandy741 Love the Lord or be rejected.

If you were a girl I'd say bring a bible to the interview and have it conveniently sticking out of your purse.