LECOM Academic Index Score

[StudyLater]

I thought that was LUCOM?

Ah sorry. Damn vowels.

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[jordansetron]

Do either o fyou go to LECOM B? if so, can you guys tell me some stuff about the school?

LECOM-B is nice. The outside of the building is beautiful but the inside is sterile. The teaching faculty are great but the administration seems out of touch. The dress code and no eating/drinking thing that so many applicants make a big deal of is really a non-issue. I truthfully like the school a lot but the lack of artwork on the 2nd floor really gets to me. I had experience with the USF college of medicine and I can tell you that their administration is pretty bad too and i'm starting to think LECOM is just less apologetic about it than other schools. The 1st semester is mostly lecture and then PBL after that. The tuition is definitely something to consider, but remember you will be paying less and getting less.

My class is like 1/2 non christian. Idk why @StudyLater said that.

Overall its a good med school that matches well but you have to ready to be professional af. Take everything I say with a grain of salt tho, just a 1st year.

 

[StudyLater]

I truthfully like the school a lot but the lack of artwork on the 2nd floor really gets to me.

This is a hilarious thing to be annoyed about.

I had experience with the USF college of medicine and I can tell you that their administration is pretty bad too and i'm starting to think LECOM is just less apologetic about it than other schools.

I can dig that. But seriously though I've never been to a school where the administration wasn't terrible. I basically view it as a requirement by now.

The tuition is definitely something to consider, but remember you will be paying less and getting less.

You mean in terms of rotations? Or is there something else lacking (besides sh*tty administration)?

My class is like 1/2 non christian. Idk why @StudyLater said that

My apologies, as I am an idiot.

professional af.

Nice oxymoron.

 

[Gandyy]

LECOM-B is nice. The outside of the building is beautiful but the inside is sterile. The teaching faculty are great but the administration seems out of touch. The dress code and no eating/drinking thing that so many applicants make a big deal of is really a non-issue. I truthfully like the school a lot but the lack of artwork on the 2nd floor really gets to me. I had experience with the USF college of medicine and I can tell you that their administration is pretty bad too and i'm starting to think LECOM is just less apologetic about it than other schools. The 1st semester is mostly lecture and then PBL after that. The tuition is definitely something to consider, but remember you will be paying less and getting less.

My class is like 1/2 non christian. Idk why @StudyLater said that.

Overall its a good med school that matches well but you have to ready to be professional af. Take everything I say with a grain of salt tho, just a 1st year.

yes what do you mean by you "get less."?

 

[jordansetron]

yes what do you mean by you "get less."?

A lot of medical schools have laboratories to study histology and do research. LECOM doesn't. A lot schools have a gym. LECOM doesn't. A lot of schools have a harvey (robotic patient simulator). LECOM doesn't.

None of these things are imperative to a medical education and they can easily be found nearby, but just the same the opportunity to utilize them isn't there. I had a membership to a bigname university gym...never went. Heart sounds simulated by a harvey can be easily found online. Histology slides can be put into a powerpoint to study by the professor.

If you value the bells and whistles then don't go here. I can't speak to rotations but from what I understand is that is merit based. As in the best students get the best rotations and the worst ones get saddled with less than impressive locations and moving around a lot. The freedom to pick your rotation site is either a huge positive or negative depending on how proactive you are.

 

[RustBeltOnc]

Wait are you saying that you can easily determine someone's MCAT score from their GPA? So you are saying that if you have a 4.0 gpa, you should do extremely well on the MCAT? Or am I misunderstanding you?

My point is, if you did what Hopkins did, which is accept SAT in lieu of MCAT, and you had the transcript from a college you know, the MCAT doesn't add much. Think about the population of students that matriculate into Hopkins and peers --- kid with solid grades from Swarthmore and who earned solid SAT scores at Stuyvesant -- what does the MCAT score add?

 

[jordansetron]

My point is, if you did what Hopkins did, which is accept SAT in lieu of MCAT, and you had the transcript from a college you know, the MCAT doesn't add much. Think about the population of students that matriculate into Hopkins and peers --- kid with solid grades from Swarthmore and who earned solid SAT scores at Stuyvesant -- what does the MCAT score add?

Swarthmore and Stuyvesant? Are these schools for witchcraft and wizardry?

 

[StudyLater]

Swarthmore and Stuyvesant? Are these schools for witchcraft and wizardry?

I actually know a guy who went to Swarth that loves Harry Potter. Anyway.

 

[68PGunner]

My point is, if you did what Hopkins did, which is accept SAT in lieu of MCAT, and you had the transcript from a college you know, the MCAT doesn't add much. Think about the population of students that matriculate into Hopkins and peers --- kid with solid grades from Swarthmore and who earned solid SAT scores at Stuyvesant -- what does the MCAT score add?

But not everyone goes to Swarthmore. Are you saying that a 3.5 from MIT is less than a 3.8 from a community college?

 

[RustBeltOnc]

But not everyone goes to Swarthmore. Are you saying that a 3.5 from MIT is less than a 3.8 from a community college?

And you could look at both students' SAT scores. MCAT then adds nothing except hassle and expense.

 

[jordansetron]

Your MCAT score is a great predictor of your ability to succeed at taking the MCAT. Not much else. Still tho, there has to be some form of standardization. Otherwise its a "rich get richer" scenario that starts in high school.

Gets into good college because went to good high school
gets into good medical school because went to good college
gets into good residency because went to good medical school
gets great job because went to good residency

There has to be some checkpoints that go in between these steps

 

[Mad Jack]

I have stated before, back in the day, you didnt need the MCAT to attend Hopkins. They looked at your transcript and college GPA. You can easily predict someone's MCAT score from this and the GPA tells you about the work ethic.

I don't have a problem with this. I think that many of us who survived the ABIM MOC shenanigans are increasingly skeptical of the cottage industry of excessive standardized testing and as junior faculty, if involved in medical school admissions, would consider revisiting the requirement of MCAT.

That was back in the days before rampant grade inflation. A 4.0 today and a 4.0 back then are not equivalent. Scrapping the MCAT puts you in a situation where you've got a bunch of 4.0s, so school prestige becomes a far more important metric. The MCAT is the ultimate equalizer- it lets you compare the knowledge of people from different institutions directly against each other.

GPA is also bit the best correlate to MCAT success by a long shot- SAT scores are. While a low GPA is somewhat predictive of a poor MCAT, a high GPA correlates poorly with a high MCAT. My bet is that this is the result if grade inflation, but also that standardized tests require a certain sort of thinking that not all hard working people have.

 

[RustBeltOnc]

That was back in the days before rampant grade inflation. A 4.0 today and a 4.0 back then are not equivalent. Scrapping the MCAT puts you in a situation where you've got a bunch of 4.0s, so school prestige becomes a far more important metric. The MCAT is the ultimate equalizer- it lets you compare the knowledge of people from different institutions directly against each other.
.

Mad Jack -- seen from my perspective, I think the community and most individuals would be best served by scrapping the MCAT, and perhaps sacrificing this "equalizer." You could still use SAT, ACT scores to get a sense of how the person does on standardized tests. As far as everyone having a 4.0, I am sure there are some medical schools with this as a matriculate ug gpa average, but there aren't many.

Bottom line is, you look at a kid's ug transcript, college, and some measure of test taking ability, you know pretty much what you have as a student. Another test is a waste of money and time.

 

[Mad Jack]

Mad Jack -- seen from my perspective, I think the community and most individuals would be best served by scrapping the MCAT, and perhaps sacrificing this "equalizer." You could still use SAT, ACT scores to get a sense of how the person does on standardized tests. As far as everyone having a 4.0, I am sure there are some medical schools with this as a matriculate ug gpa average, but there aren't many.

Bottom line is, you look at a kid's ug transcript, college, and some measure of test taking ability, you know pretty much what you have as a student. Another test is a waste of money and time.

Your SAT scores and college are both determined by things you did when you were all of 18 years old. With no MCAT, you'd basically be saying, "I don't care how much you know, I care how hard you worked to get into a school as a teenager." And, while 4.0s may be somewhat rare, plenty of people are in the 3.8+ category. Then there's the whole consideration of majors- your English lit major with a 3.9 versus your engineering major with a 3.4...

The MCAT has been statistically shown to be highly predictive of medical school success, and moderately predictive of Step scores. It's a good tool that does what it is designed for. in fact, that is the whole reason it was created- medical school attrition rates were insane and they needed a tool to best determine which applicants would succeed. Everything else can also be factored in, but the MCAT should stick around as a metric of some sort to determine the viability of candidateS.

 

[RustBeltOnc]

"I don't care how much you know, I care how hard you worked to get into a school as a teenager." And, while 4.0s may be somewhat rare, plenty of people are in the 3.8+ category. Then there's the whole consideration of majors- your English lit major with a 3.9 versus your engineering major with a 3.4...The MCAT has been statistically shown to be highly predictive of medical school success, and moderately predictive of Step scores. .

Mad Jack -- sort of. My main point is I think we just need some measure if someone can take a standardized test. That ability doesn't change much from age 18 to 21. If we just go rid of the MCAT, think of the money, effort, and hassle that would be eliminated. Also -- the usmle are licensing exams, having another test to maybe find people who could do better on another test ... well I think you get my point here

 

[68PGunner]

Mad Jack -- sort of. My main point is I think we just need some measure if someone can take a standardized test. That ability doesn't change much from age 18 to 21. If we just go rid of the MCAT, think of the money, effort, and hassle that would be eliminated. Also -- the usmle are licensing exams, having another test to maybe find people who could do better on another test ... well I think you get my point here

Why not eliminate tests in general for medical school? MCAT scores are highly predictive of whether or not students will fail out in their first year.

I'm of the opinion that a student's test taking ability needs to be updated every four years due to changing environments and standards.

 

[RustBeltOnc]

Why not eliminate tests in general for medical school? MCAT scores are highly predictive of whether or not students will fail out in their first year.
I'm of the opinion that a student's test taking ability needs to be updated every four years due to changing environments and standards.

Actually, I am good with that. You can probably select decent people with college quality, college transcript alone.

 

[Seth Joo]

The average MCAT is a little over 28 now. I still think this is just a money making scheme that also allows LECOM to have an inflated application to matriculation ratio next year.

LECOM is a money making machine like most DO schools, there are some DO schools out there that are actually legitimate institutions of learning. The rapid expansion of schools under the auspices of the AOA has allowed things to be watered down to such a level that many DO schools are run more like Caribbean schools but located on US soil. They are catering to aspiring doctors who could not make it into Allopathic programs.

 

[jordansetron]

LECOM is a money making machine like most DO schools, there are some DO schools out there that are actually legitimate institutions of learning. The rapid expansion of schools under the auspices of the AOA has allowed things to be watered down to such a level that many DO schools are run more like Caribbean schools but located on US soil. They are catering to aspiring doctors who could not make it into Allopathic programs.

Somebody brought up the idea that the rapid DO expansion is less about money and more about power. The AOA wants more DO docs around so that they have more political pull. I think the current ratio is 9 to 1 MD to DO and the AMA has historically been less than welcoming to DOs. With more DOs floating around, the less likely the MD bullying will go unopposed. Do you think this expansion is more of a strategy?

MD schools are expanding to a comparable rate. Its just not as obvious because they don't have to increase the number of schools as much as they just increase their class size. Its not news that most people would rather go to an allopathic school. Those schools have better resources and recognition for the most part. But really, allopathic school is for people who couldn't get into allopathic school. How many matriculants are 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th time applicants? Because they didn't get in the year before should they be looked down on? Anyone can get into an allopathic school if they want to put in the time and effort. A lot of DO students would rather go ahead and start training to be physicians than sit out another year.

 

[Seth Joo]

Somebody brought up the idea that the rapid DO expansion is less about money and more about power. The AOA wants more DO docs around so that they have more political pull. I think the current ratio is 9 to 1 MD to DO and the AMA has historically been less than welcoming to DOs. With more DOs floating around, the less likely the MD bullying will go unopposed. Do you think this expansion is more of a strategy?

MD schools are expanding to a comparable rate. Its just not as obvious because they don't have to increase the number of schools as much as they just increase their class size. Its not news that most people would rather go to an allopathic school. Those schools have better resources and recognition for the most part. But really, allopathic school is for people who couldn't get into allopathic school. How many matriculants are 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th time applicants? Because they didn't get in the year before should they be looked down on? Anyone can get into an allopathic school if they want to put in the time and effort. A lot of DO students would rather go ahead and start training to be physicians than sit out another year.

Money and Power kind of go together, but that being said DOs will always be the minority in the medical profession.

 

[AzizImSorry]

because its one of many indicators that should be considered even though its not a great one. What I'm trying to say is that I don't believe there is one really good indicator of success in medical school, but the MCAT is often looked at as such. Its one of the many things to consider in the application. I think just taking the MCAT is a filter in the least. Many students who were pre-med decided not to go into medicine because they were frustrated by the MCAT process(could actually be a bad thing, but medicine is all about exams). There does need to be some sort of standard exam that puts everybody on an equal playing field. The SAT is one of those exams but by the time students are applying to med schools that exam is 4 years old and the applicant could have changed dramatically since then. I'm certainly not the person I was 4 years ago.

I don't believe the MCAT is a good predictor but i recognize the need for a standardized exam. The fact that people can and do take the MCAT multiple (5+)times negates their authenticity anyway.

This is essentially how most adcoms see the MCAT already (at least from what I've seen in osteopathic schools). It is one of several factors that schools use to determine whether or not you would do well at their school, and subsequently reflect how well that school prepares its students, evidenced by board scores and then residency placement - that seems to be a given.

I think we agree? Haha I'm just not sure what your point was in saying that students should take the MCAT even if it serves no predictive purpose.

Also, the SAT doesn't measure reasoning skills nearly as well as the MCAT does - I'm sure everyone who has ever taken both tests can agree with that. Regardless of how old you were when you took the SAT and then MCAT, it's not even close to the same type of test.

 

[AzizImSorry]

Your SAT scores and college are both determined by things you did when you were all of 18 years old. With no MCAT, you'd basically be saying, "I don't care how much you know, I care how hard you worked to get into a school as a teenager." And, while 4.0s may be somewhat rare, plenty of people are in the 3.8+ category. Then there's the whole consideration of majors- your English lit major with a 3.9 versus your engineering major with a 3.4...

The MCAT has been statistically shown to be highly predictive of medical school success, and moderately predictive of Step scores. It's a good tool that does what it is designed for. in fact, that is the whole reason it was created- medical school attrition rates were insane and they needed a tool to best determine which applicants would succeed. Everything else can also be factored in, but the MCAT should stick around as a metric of some sort to determine the viability of candidateS.

I agree with this, but also your SAT score is determined by a TOTALLY different pool of people (re: all people applying to COLLEGE vs. all people applying to MEDICAL SCHOOL.) I think it's a terrible idea to equate someone's ability to perform in med school with a metric based on people applying to college. Much harder to score in the 90th percentile for MCAT than it is to score in the 90th percentile for SAT.

 

[hopefulstudent55]

I passed the ASI and received secondary invite, so I am all for LECOM doing this!

Hi GypsyHummus,

How did LECOM end up working out for you with your AIS? Did you end up getting an interview/acceptance with it?

*First post on SDN wohoooo!*

 

[GypsyHummus]

Hi GypsyHummus,

How did LECOM end up working out for you with your AIS? Did you end up getting an interview/acceptance with it?

*First post on SDN wohoooo!*

Ill PM you

 

[PreMedDonna]

Has anyone gotten accepted without an MCAT score using solely the AIS? I have not taken the MCAT yet, and I was wondering if I could plan to receive a secondary or even an interview invite without the MCAT score. The LECOM website is pretty vague and just says that the AIS "may" be considered in lieu of MCAT scores. I am hopeful that my good ACT score will offset my average GPA when being considered for an interview.
Stats: cGPA 3.5 sGPA 3.4 ACT 33

 

[hopefulstudent55]

Has anyone gotten accepted without an MCAT score using solely the AIS? I have not taken the MCAT yet, and I was wondering if I could plan to receive a secondary or even an interview invite without the MCAT score. The LECOM website is pretty vague and just says that the AIS "may" be considered in lieu of MCAT scores. I am hopeful that my good ACT score will offset my average GPA when being considered for an interview.
Stats: cGPA 3.5 sGPA 3.4 ACT 33

Hi PreMedDonna,

I am wondering the same thing. When I emailed the lady from LECOM, she said a 110 on the AIS is necessary to get a secondary in place of the MCAT. However, and interview and acceptance is up in the air. Please do keep me in the loop if you find out more information about this. Thanks!

 

[PreMedDonna]

Hi PreMedDonna,

I am wondering the same thing. When I emailed the lady from LECOM, she said a 110 on the AIS is necessary to get a secondary in place of the MCAT. However, and interview and acceptance is up in the air. Please do keep me in the loop if you find out more information about this. Thanks!

How do they calculate the AIS? There is nowhere on AACOMAS to enter an ACT/SAT score. My AACOMAS application only allows MCAT scores to be entered in the standardized testing section. Is there a place on the secondary application to report these scores? If so, do they send a secondary based solely on GPA?

 

[NessunDOrma]

Hi,
I received a secondary and interviewed at LECOM-SH on April 19th. I only had the AIS which was 121. I was contacted by the add-com and told they needed my spring transcripts to render their final decision. They received everything 2 weeks ago, so I am stuck waiting, and it's killing me!!! Best of luck to all.

 

[NessunDOrma]

LECOM has the AIS calculator on their site under medical school admissions. 109-110 is the minimum and I believe around a 140 is the max, don't quote me on the max, but it's around there.

 

[hopefulstudent55]

Anyone have any updates on anyone being accepted this cycle with solely the AIS and no MCAT?

 

[voguegg]

Ill PM you

Hey, would you mind messaging me too about what happened as well? Going through the same thing now.