Liberty U

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sb247 said:
Yeah, as probably one of the most "old school" protestant religous christians on SDN, I think it's probably fair to say that even if there are some intentional efforts to be "blind" towards lifestyle portions of applications that the religious schools (loma linda, cusom, william carey, liberty, marian?) probably present a slightly higher hurdle for lgbt applicants or active athiest/muslim/hindu applicants.
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Deff agree. I'm religious too (Jedi) but I think that as long as someone isnt bursting out vocals about their atheism, muslim, hindu, or homosexual extracurriculars, I doubt people will catch on. Plus, it says they cant discriminate.
 
sb247 said:
Yeah, I applied to meharry and morehouse, so I know the feeling 😉
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Right, because being a person of color is just like being a religious nut. 🙄
 
GypsyHummus said:
Deff agree. I'm religious too (Jedi) but I think that as long as someone isnt bursting out vocals about their atheism, muslim, hindu, or homosexual extracurriculars, I doubt people will catch on. Plus, it says they cant discriminate.
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Except you can absolutely discriminate based off of sexual orientation because we are not a federally protected class
 
touchpause13 said:
Except you can absolutely discriminate based off of sexual orientation because we are not a federally protected class
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The existence of the urm status kind makes a mockery of protected classes. In private industry, there simply shouldn't be protected classes anyway. If I want to start a restaurant staffed only by 6'5" asian women with blonde hair, it's no one's business but mine and my customers.
 
sb247 said:
The existence of the urm status kind makes a mockery of protected classes. In private industry, there simply shouldn't be protected classes anyway. If I want to start a restaurant staffed only by 6'5" asian women with blonde hair, it's no one's business but mine and my customers.
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Oh dear god I think he's serious
 
sb247 said:
The existence of the urm status kind makes a mockery of protected classes. In private industry, there simply shouldn't be protected classes anyway. If I want to start a restaurant staffed only by 6'5" asian women with blonde hair, it's no one's business but mine and my customers.
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touchpause13 said:
Oh dear god I think he's serious
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Notice that he's not saying such a hiring practice would be ethical or moral or right; he's simply saying that it should be within a business owner's rights and within consumers' rights to punish the owner by not patronizing a business.
 
touchpause13 said:
Except you can absolutely discriminate based off of sexual orientation because we are not a federally protected class
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I dont understand, anyone can discriminate anyone else, and it says in the schools techincal standards they cant discriminate on the basis of race, creed, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc.

Also, this is assuming people are vocal about their extracurricular practices. For example, say I liked to play video games but society deemed it unfit, if I dont bring it up, then they will never know and cant discriminate.
 
NurWollen said:
Notice that he's not saying such a hiring practice would be ethical or moral or right; he's simply saying that it should be within a business owner's rights and within consumers' rights to punish the owner by not patronizing a business.
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And you don't see the irony in complaining about URM in schools and then saying private businesses (90% of DO schools, and all hbc, Puerto Rican schools ) should be able to do whatever they want. Hail to the idiocy of SDN.

Every time I log into this site, I feel less enthused as to meeting my future classmates. But then again, that's the competition..so I really shouldn't complain.
 
NontradCA said:
And you don't see the irony in complaining about URM in schools and then saying private businesses (90% of DO schools, and all hbc, Puerto Rican schools ) should be able to do whatever they want. Hail to the idiocy of SDN.

Every time I log into this site, I feel less enthused as to meeting my future classmates. But then again, that's the competition..so I really shouldn't complain.
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I don't have the mental capacity to deal with this today. Seriously I hope we both end up at DMU
 
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NurWollen said:
Notice that he's not saying such a hiring practice would be ethical or moral or right; he's simply saying that it should be within a business owner's rights and within consumers' rights to punish the owner by not patronizing a business.
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Exactly, the free market is especially powerful in the information age. But i don't think there is always something immoral about discrimination. A gym might want to hire healthy people, a sushi restaurant might prefer asian employees, and a tanning salon is more likely to hire women. There is an obgyn group in town with a bunch of billboards bragging about having female staff. It's sometimes just a business decision and if it's one the public doesn't like, they get to punish the business by not patronizing them.

But the free market can solve those things...in the year 2000 bob jones university finally ended a ban on interacial dating. I watched the larry king interview where he announced it. He said that his policy was something he believed ws right (he was a *****) but that he saw how much his policy tarnished the diplomas he was handing out and didn't want to harm his students in the future. Legislation didn't end that rule, free market pressure did...
 
Hi nontradCA,

I believe there should be much different rules for private and public schools. Hope that clears up some of your questions.
 
GypsyHummus said:
I dont understand, anyone can discriminate anyone else, and it says in the schools techincal standards they cant discriminate on the basis of race, creed, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc.

Also, this is assuming people are vocal about their extracurricular practices. For example, say I liked to play video games but society deemed it unfit, if I dont bring it up, then they will never know and cant discriminate.
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May be LUCOM should have a 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' policy... Lol
 
The LUCOM bashing continues!... I really don't get the outrage from SDN members...
 
Temperature101 said:
The LUCOM bashing continues!... I really don't get the outrage from SDN members...
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If it doesn't include a far left agenda or socialist ideals (the two are synonymous, really), then much of the SDN populous will rage.

As a conservative that holds many of the values that Liberty ascribes to, I am excited about the prospect of attending LUCOM. Hopefully, some of the same people who are bashing the school will garner their only acceptance from it and attend. Then I will happily discuss my relationship with Christ with them!! 😀
 
verynice said:
If it doesn't include a far left agenda or socialist ideals (the two are synonymous, really), then much of the SDN populous will rage.

As a conservative that holds many of the values that Liberty ascribes to, I am excited about the prospect of attending LUCOM. Hopefully, some of the same people who are bashing the school will garner their only acceptance from it and attend. Then I will happily discuss my relationship with Christ with them!!
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Will someone hold my hair for me?
Barf
 
verynice said:
If it doesn't include a far left agenda or socialist ideals (the two are synonymous, really), then much of the SDN populous will rage.

As a conservative that holds many of the values that Liberty ascribes to, I am excited about the prospect of attending LUCOM. Hopefully, some of the same people who are bashing the school will garner their only acceptance from it and attend. Then I will happily discuss my relationship with Christ with them!! 😀
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verynice said:
I will!! Cus I'm coo like dat. 😀
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:flame:
 
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sb247 said:
There is an obgyn group in town with a bunch of billboards bragging about having female staff. It's sometimes just a business decision and if it's one the public doesn't like, they get to punish the business by not patronizing them.
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Yes, most men will prefer to go to a different OB/GYN.

touchpause13 said:
words
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👍 I like you
 
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As Christians we are supposed to spread the Good News, but NOT with those who do not want to hear it. Not only is that going against what Christ taught, but it is also gives Christians a bad name, making others less likely to hear us out, which completely defeats the purpose in the first place.

Most importantly, using the discussion of your relationship with Christ to potentially taunt or aggravate another person is just downright offensive to Christians as well as Christ.
 
Godlovesyou said:
As Christians we are supposed to spread the Good News, but NOT with those who do not want to hear it. Not only is that going against what Christ taught, but it is also gives Christians a bad name, making others less likely to hear us out, which completely defeats the purpose in the first place.

Most importantly, using the discussion of your relationship with Christ to potentially taunt or aggravate another person is just downright offensive to Christians as well as Christ.
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I think opening a medical school is the last thing giving Christians a bad name, if it's a good program untouched by the crazy pseudo-science I would still apply.
 
Solution: if you are that worried, tell them your sexuality. problem solved.
 
Whoooaaaa...

As Christians we are supposed to spread the Good News, but NOT with those who do not want to hear it.

Yes, however, I never implied that I was forcefully going to cram my faith down anyone's throat. I simply stated, "Then I will happily discuss my relationship with Christ with them!!" How can you possibly say that I meant anything other than what I wrote? "Discussion" is an exchange of ideas... I would happily discuss with them. I never said that I would forcefully share my faith or that I was going to be mean about it. It was an honest hope. I want to be able to share Christ's love with others who do not know Him.

People generally don't know a whole lot about Christ's story and they usually just think that Christians are a bunch of hyper-religious fanatics who are nothing more than hypocritical in whatever they do. Those people aren't going to want to hear about Christ's story because they think that they know it and see it as fraudulent. So if you spend your life avoiding those kind of people as you are implying, then I fear that your understanding of the great commission is deluded. They need to interact with Christians who express traits that are, indeed, Christ-like.

John 12:48-50


Not only is that going against what Christ taught, but it is also gives Christians a bad name, making others less likely to hear us out, which completely defeats the purpose in the first place.

I really am having a hard time seeing how teaching things that Christ taught, sharing His story, or discussing God's redemptive plan goes against Matthew 28:16-20 (the great commission.)


Most importantly, using the discussion of your relationship with Christ to potentially taunt or aggravate another person is just downright offensive to Christians as well as Christ.

I was in no way taunting or trying to aggravate anyone as I have previously expressed. I am not ashamed of my relationship with Christ and since it is the most important thing in my life, I am going to talk about it with others (even those on SDN.)
Mark 8:38

In conclusion, I think you may have taken what I said the wrong way. Since text communication does not adequately convey emotions, infections, and sincerity, I trust that you understand that what I said was nothing less than an honest desire. I honestly would like to talk to the people who are bashing Christianity and this "quack" school. I think it would be an awesome way to witness and precisely what Christ would want. I don't think He would want us to ignore people who think that He was a hoax or liar. Don't you think He would want us to try to reach them? (Matthew 10:6)

Furthermore, you could have just PMd me with your concerns.
 
verynice said:
Whoooaaaa...

As Christians we are supposed to spread the Good News, but NOT with those who do not want to hear it.

Yes, however, I never implied that I was forcefully going to cram my faith down anyone's throat. I simply stated, "Then I will happily discuss my relationship with Christ with them!!" How can you possibly say that I meant anything other than what I wrote? "Discussion" is an exchange of ideas... I would happily discuss with them. I never said that I would forcefully share my faith or that I was going to be mean about it. It was an honest hope. I want to be able to share Christ's love with others who do not know Him.

People generally don't know a whole lot about Christ's story and they usually just think that Christians are a bunch of hyper-religious fanatics who are nothing more than hypocritical in whatever they do. Those people aren't going to want to hear about Christ's story because they think that they know it and see it as fraudulent. So if you spend your life avoiding those kind of people as you are implying, then I fear that your understanding of the great commission is deluded. They need to interact with Christians who express traits that are, indeed, Christ-like.

John 12:48-50


Not only is that going against what Christ taught, but it is also gives Christians a bad name, making others less likely to hear us out, which completely defeats the purpose in the first place.

I really am having a hard time seeing how teaching things that Christ taught, sharing His story, or discussing God's redemptive plan goes against Matthew 28:16-20 (the great commission.)


Most importantly, using the discussion of your relationship with Christ to potentially taunt or aggravate another person is just downright offensive to Christians as well as Christ.

I was in no way taunting or trying to aggravate anyone as I have previously expressed. I am not ashamed of my relationship with Christ and since it is the most important thing in my life, I am going to talk about it with others (even those on SDN.)
Mark 8:38

In conclusion, I think you may have taken what I said the wrong way. Since text communication does not adequately convey emotions, infections, and sincerity, I trust that you understand that what I said was nothing less than an honest desire. I honestly would like to talk to the people who are bashing Christianity and this "quack" school. I think it would be an awesome way to witness and precisely what Christ would want. I don't think He would want us to ignore people who think that He was a hoax or liar. Don't you think He would want us to try to reach them? (Matthew 10:6)

Furthermore, you could have just PMd me with your concerns.
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Honestly, in my undergrad days I used to have lively discussions with Christians, but towards the end, we always just stall when the words "Just have faith" and when bible verses get thrown at me (which means nothing to non-christians since I just see it as another book).

Religion is always a messy topic to talk about. I think most people concerns aren't necessarily the school, but mostly the rapid increase of DO schools in such a short amount of time.
 
Someone needs to take this thread out back and shoot it before the cancer spreads.
 
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darklabel said:
Honestly, in my undergrad days I used to have lively discussions with Christians, but towards the end, we always just stall when the words "Just have faith" and when bible verses get thrown at me (which means nothing to non-christians since I just see it as another book).
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Haha, well it does certainly does come down to that. Faith, that is. (Otherwise there would be no choice, right?) But I really like to approach the topic with as much reason as I can

darklabel said:
Religion is always a messy topic to talk about. I think most people concerns aren't necessarily the school, but mostly the rapid increase of DO schools in such a short amount of time.
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I was wondering about that myself. Will the ~150 more students that LUCOM will produce per year cause a significant problem when it comes to matching? Or is the problem that the trend of school creation is becoming exorbitant?
 
verynice said:
Haha, well it does certainly does come down to that. Faith, that is. (Otherwise there would be no choice, right?) But I really like to approach the topic with as much reason as I can



I was wondering about that myself. Will the ~150 more students that LUCOM will produce per year cause a significant problem when it comes to matching? Or is the problem that the trend of school creation is becoming exorbitant?
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Definitely goes far beyond just LUCOM and just falls into the worrisome trend of new schools being added. I believe OU is adding a satellite campus soon and more schools are on the docket for opening up. And apparently COCA is powerless to stop the large number of incoming schools.
 
What is going to happen in the event that we don't have nearly enough residency spots to suffice the influx of graduate s?
 
verynice said:
What is going to happen in the event that we don't have nearly enough residency spots to suffice the influx of graduate s?
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Right now, the ACGME side of things has us covered; however, for Class of 2018 or '19, I believe the number of US grads will = number of residencies (I remember reading it from JAMA, not sure what article). After that, IMGs will have a damn hard time matching, but unmatched DOs might be more frequent, might being a key word.

For 2020 and beyond, assuming schools keep opening up (which apparently is unstopable) and the number of GME spots stays stagnant like it has the last few years, then things can get dicey.

Its not all roses for MD schools either since new MD schools opening means more competition for the competitive residencies that nearly every student (at least that I've come across) want.
 
darklabel said:
Right now, the ACGME side of things has us covered; however, for Class of 2018 or '19, I believe the number of US grads will = number of residencies (I remember reading it from JAMA, not sure what article). After that, IMGs will have a damn hard time matching, but unmatched DOs might be more frequent, might being a key word.

For 2020 and beyond, assuming schools keep opening up (which apparently is unstopable) and the number of GME spots stays stagnant like it has the last few years, then things can get dicey.

Its not all roses for MD schools either since new MD schools opening means more competition for the competitive residencies that nearly every student (at least that I've come across) want.
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Will the place of school attendance be thought of as a deciding factor in the future? For example, a person with a 240 step 1 from an older more established school be chosen over someone with a 240 step 1 from a brand new school?
 
verynice said:
Will the place of school attendance be thought of as a deciding factor in the future? For example, a person with a 240 step 1 from an older more established school be chosen over someone with a 240 step 1 from a brand new school?
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Outside the realm of my research (only a pre-med). Should ask a resident or 4th years about that. But I'm sure its very subjective.

For right now, we should be ok matching for class of 2018 (even if its at a crappy middle-of-nowhere AOA FM residency, at least you matched). But I do think more attention should be brought up on the issue.

Heck, RVU-COM is a for-profit school and even if it's proved itself, I am still against the idea of more such schools forming.
 
darklabel said:
Outside the realm of my research (only a pre-med). Should ask a resident or 4th years about that. But I'm sure its very subjective.

For right now, we should be ok matching for class of 2018 (even if its at a crappy middle-of-nowhere AOA FM residency, at least you matched). But I do think more attention should be brought up on the issue.

Heck, RVU-COM is a for-profit school and even if it's proved itself, I am still against the idea of more such schools forming.
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I think there needs to be more schools in the future but there needs to be a more organized progression of residency slots in parallel with school formation. I suppose that is obvious with our growing population, but it seems most logical.
 
darklabel said:
Outside the realm of my research (only a pre-med). Should ask a resident or 4th years about that. But I'm sure its very subjective.

For right now, we should be ok matching for class of 2018 (even if its at a crappy middle-of-nowhere AOA FM residency, at least you matched). But I do think more attention should be brought up on the issue.

Heck, RVU-COM is a for-profit school and even if it's proved itself, I am still against the idea of more such schools forming.
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How many more DO schools are in the pipeline? There was a link floating around SDN, but I am unable to find it...
 
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Temperature101 said:
Wow... That is more than 10 schools and some of them look kind of shady like you say... Has COCA ever rejected any school that apply for accreditation?
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Why is the AOA so eager to expand class sizes and open new schools knowing there are not enough GME spots?
COCA has deeming authority from the federal government to accredit osteopathic medical schools. While COCA has a relationship with the AOA through its location and some shared staffing, that relationship, in order to maintain its federal recognition, must be at an arm’s length. This means that COCA makes its accreditation decisions independently from the AOA Board of Trustees. Requests for and COCA’s actions on class size increases or new schools do not go to the AOA board for approval. COCA has the sole authority to make these decisions. We want to be clear about this.

COCA also cannot declare a moratorium. Having deeming status from the federal government means that COCA must abide by the law. COCA has criteria that new schools must meet and that existing schools must meet to increase their class sizes. The fact is, if an organization comes forward and presents a proposal that meets those standards, COCA cannot say no. Saying no or declaring a moratorium on new schools or class size increases would be against the law as an illegal restraint of trade.

COCA recognizes that this challenge exists with a differential rate of growth of medical student graduates versus GME positions. The fact that they have established and strengthened standards aimed at making new schools and expansion of existing schools dependent on planning and progress toward more OGME shows COCA is doing what it can to try to address this problem.
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http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Pages/acgme-intern-resident-faqs-august-2013.aspx

Apparently COCA can't stop DO schools from popping up. So if you and group of friends have about 60$ million dollars, you too can open up a DO school.
 
I like the fact that I actually just posted the official memo from AACOMAS as information....and it has bloomed into this oh so wonderful conversation about sharing the word of God and about the over saturation of medical schools. I love SDN. 🙂
 
darklabel said:
http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Pages/acgme-intern-resident-faqs-august-2013.aspx

Apparently COCA can't stop DO schools from popping up. So if you and group of friends have about 60$ million dollars, you too can open up a DO school.
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They can, they just need to tighten up their standards.

This is a frigging joke of a school handing out full-fledged medical degrees. The only thing this new DO school is going to do is hurt the reputation of DOs everywhere.
 
notbobtrustme said:
They can, they just need to tighten up their standards.

This is a frigging joke of a school handing out full-fledged medical degrees. The only thing this new DO school is going to do is hurt the reputation of DOs everywhere.
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Exactly. That's the trick they have going on. They want the money, so they made the standards ****. The fact that there isn't a standard that safeguards against institutions that promote pseudoscience puts COCA in the toilet.
 
How many people are actually going to apply?
 
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